What Patch 1.08 Actually Changed - Crouching/Rolling Attack Differences

[@Amir0]

Thanks for enjoying the video, if you're looking for something down here be sure to check the description first. Otherwise, I'm gonna use this comment to add anything I didn't have the time to explain in this video. First, if you read the feedback articles I linked, you'll see in both the crouching and thrusting ones we suggest many exact fixes and general hints at where different thrusting attacks can be balanced. In the crouching one, we also suggested the Colossal Sword get a stun tier nerf(Lvl 3 or "heavy" to Lvl 2 or "medium) and a hyperarmor startup nerf. We also suggested crouching attacks across the board get crouch/block/dodge cancel speed nerfs, and had some other specific suggestions for what we thought were especially problematic crouching attacks. While this was written in a time where frankly we had to get out feedback asap, I do wish that article made it more clear that we meant the suggestions to be taken as several options to tune and combine if necessary to balance out these elements instead of a whole package of changes that 100% need to be adapted in full together, and in general I wish we had the insight we had now to craft higher quality suggestions. However in the bigger picture of the whole article, I don't mind this shortcoming as it would be difficult to make a mistake from that with what actual high-quality explanatory content of the article offers. Most of our other articles make sure to clarify very clearly that their suggestions should be adapted with the context of other possible changes in mind and "with developer discretion", such as our Thrusting Attacks focused article. Regardless, whatever the developers got from that article I think it was positive, as the point of rolling attacks being usable from the crouching state(without any limitations) being fundamentally problematic seemed to get across with this solution they've come up with. In fact, at different points myself, Gabri and others have discussed suggesting splitting crouching and rolling attacks, but we ended up excluding it from any of the suggestions on the website article because at the time we thought it was "too much to ask for" especially with how much time passed after release, but oh man how we were wrong. Guess moving forward we should not underestimate the effort they can put in. On second thought, it is possible through other channels that we did indeed forward a suggestion on splitting the attack into two types, but take that with a grain of salt as I haven't verified if this is the case. I think with what some at FromSoftware already know about their game's fundamentals or with what may have reminded them of it from these articles, they certainly could have naturally came to that conclusion.

[@sturmmagnunstein1008]

Do you still update the pvp website? I want lucerne to actually have pierce damage on the r1...

[@lamellarm6546]

Making rolling and crouching attack speeds separate was something I thought they should do, but was certain they wouldn't do. These past few patches have done nothing but impress me.

[@LordOfChaos.x]

Most crouching attacks didint even need a nerf U have much more broken stuff that breaks the gameplay

[@laurence_lookmyr]

@@LordOfChaos.xlike what? Just curiosity

[@weebobo955]

​@@laurence_lookmyr not gonna lie the crouch attack on the great sword is still too strong in pvp definitely not pve tho I have light roll and can't roll a crouch attack it's most definitely because of lag but it's too annoying

[@Umimugo]

absolutely love the breakdowns with framedata, hitbox data and tracking

[@OnlyWaifuYT]

The crouch attack colossal bug is hilarious, but I'm never using it again. It gets boring pretty fast

[@smarthipan]

it's so unfortunate, i liked using halberd + estoc and i don't want to until it's fixed ;_;

[@Steelovsky]

GREAT VIDEO AMIR

[@TheKoop1]

GG WP.

[@brianbumble]

(Real)

[@BaBaNaNaBa]

no

[@destinyup1710]

@Beyond Hop3 “shake my head my head”

[@Hura_the_Blessed]

As a dark souls 3 4K hours ugs user i can say that this balancing is nearly perfect the ugs now requires a valid understanding of the weaponclass as a whole to really get its full potential out of it

[@bigsmall2842]

UGS’s are actually good weapons in pvp for once.

[@humblehomunculus2722]

Now aim punch needs to be fixed and hyper armor weapons will be much more fun to use!

[@thelordofstories]

cool story bro

[@PantsuGod]

@@thelordofstories 4k hours is a lot, but there's a ton of players who've played ds3 for even longer lol.

[@thelordofstories]

@@PantsuGod what is that PFP :S

[@thrice1201]

Amir I appreciate all the hard work you have been doing to help us get a better PvP experience in Elden Ring. Keep up the great work!

[@Silver_Lloyd]

Amir I just cannot say how much I appreciate these well made videos explaining these problems in a technical and professional matter, It really helps fuel my copium in the new colosseums.

[@tryhardmetalord5295]

The best colossal weapon is your sense of humor, Amir.

[@gabri9886]

Amazing video Amir and agree with everything there except the Dual Greatlance suggestion crouch attack. That thing should require another nerf on top of the tracking. Either reduce the speed slightly, reduce its poise damage, or reduce its stun level. It can also be a combination of those. The examples shown for range are with the shortest greatspears and on good latency. On higher latency with the longer greatspears, they have insane amount range and becomes hard to outspace normally. Remember, as people get better they will likely get to abuse them even more. So making sure a proper healthier nerf being done is better than regretting it later.

[@khknight]

Yo gabri check your PlayStation messages. I got something important to ask you

[@hobosorcerer]

I nearly choked on my drink when you mentioned that they differed between rolling and crouching attacks. Now, let's do the same for PS GS. Edit: Also let's not forget one of the biggest changes from the original crouch poke: the hitbox used to linger longer than before.

[@AtreyusNinja]

Im so glad they are still working on fixing the pvp, it s Just amazing

[@Nazylexx]

Maybe they realised the size of pvp community that played shit tone of DS3 for years and decided to improve pvp to help game grow and grow. I really enjoy this new focus on pve and pvp

[@AtreyusNinja]

@@Nazylexx probably yep meanwhile i still enjoy ds2 pvp, no estus no spam (ofc u can spam in ds2 too but than u can get punished)

[@vogunBurgundy]

I haven't exactly studied the frame data with any real scrutiny, but, aren't the powerstance spear L1s actively _faster_ than the R1s of both 1-handed and 2-handed single spears? I feel like that really shouldn't be the case and dual spears definitely feel super oppressive to play against while single spears feel nearly worthless in comparison. What'd you do about it? Would it be as simple as slowing down all of the powerstance spear attacks a couple frames, or likewise speeding up the single spear moveset? Or is it something else that'd do a better job addressing it? Or am I completely tripping and single spears are good, actually?

[@crispycronchy5887]

1:48 ZOMG me. I love the goblin step.

[@Sliznark]

Incredible video. Thank you for souls fans the most comprehensive video breakdown on these technical topics. You are awesome for making these sir 👍🏻🙂

[@5amura115]

I hope players can experiment more. Everyone playing optional tryhard builds constantly. It's nice to just have some good scraps without being forced to use the strongest setups. Great vid btw.

[@pumpofwallstreet]

For how massive this game is, the amount of weapons, combinations, builds, etc., it amazes me how that there are a handful of bugs. Bravo

[@skiffin_]

Great video Amir. And also very good timing!

[@PantsuGod]

8:18 I can understand if it's due to yt algorithm stuff, but I'm sure a lot of us wouldn't mind longer videos and hell I'd even prefer it since there's no-one else who really covers pvp mechanics in depth on yt.

[@sweaty_walrus5920]

I don't know about everyone else but the best part about this patch so far has been the ability to abuse ashes of war and magic that weren't really viable in 1v1's and making them absolutely hilarious in the 3v3 game mode. Probably some of the most fun I've had on the game was just using the cragblade and turning into a living ballistic missile that dealt an easy 1000 damage. Edit: thanks for the amazing video

[@LeoSac97]

Gigachad video as usual! Keep it up! (actually what I mean is good job, don't stress too much, I like them better made than because you "need" to do them, they become giant pearls of knowledge dropped every once in a while, keeps it fresh!)

[@whenyou]

Still no aimpunch fix : ( Aumpunch makes playing with colossal hammers feel impossible. The hyperarmor only starts late enough into the swing where the animation is more prone to jittering. Idk about frame data or anything, but having 3 whiffs in a row on would-be trades is just....

[@Wacck]

good stuff good stuff as always, #1 technical news source

[@aether3456]

Goblin Step > Wavedashing

[@gilfordtan]

This is taken from the patch notes: Reduced poise damage of Hammers, Great Hammers, and some Colossal Weapons. Weapon Arts remain unchanged. Do you know which Colossal Weapons are affected?

[@xClownpiece]

i love frame data 😍😍

[@DS_DoggerX]

Babe, wake up. New Amir video just dropped

[@swave7019]

What about stanced straight sword balancing? Since last patch they're completely dominant.

[@astralblades8846]

Honestly the devs are missing an easy way to fix most of the balance problems. Remove crouch attacks they add nothing to the game other than removing the uniqueness that each weapon could have. If every crouch attack is just a fast hit then why would you use anything else other than the strongest fast poke. Remove passive poise it feels horrible from every side. Bring back 2 hit combos for the r1 so big weapons have a use. It's ridiculous, hyper armor is usless if all it gives you is a 1 for 1 trade like what's even the point just use the fastest weapon with good range.

[@ADHDDistracts]

Nice drop of information

[@Hura_the_Blessed]

I think the paired lances crouch attack got a nerf in a way with the wavedash stamina fix since its stamina consumption is massive

[@Rewdy04]

What about quickstep ? Does it use the crouch poke or the rolling poke ?

[@peestoredinballs]

rolling

[@incius8341]

yeah, adjusting PS damage, spell spam, status build through roll and input drops, I think ER will be in a pretty good state all things considered. Correct me if i'm forgetting smth? Edit: I did! Fast roll and aimpunch.

[@youtubewanderer3347]

*The IGN build*

[@user-uf7qf7mv6k]

The invasion compass, it being broken on top of already bad spawn-in locations and the not-very-effective phantom finger consumables leaves invaders completely lost most of the time

[@incius8341]

True, feel like I don't need to state straight up glitches tho.

[@Joseph-vc7uk]

I think status damage on rolls is intentional tho. Statuses have their own bar that fills up just like hp but you don’t take hp damage on rolls which makes me think that if they wanted they could just make the status damage that weapons deal work the same as hp damage. Personally, status damage on s is a good idea since it provides an alternate form of pressure. However it should definitely be reduced, so you’d only take a portion of status damage than you would if you actually got hit. Plus if we’re looking at hit effects on s then we have to consider how rkr wears off on roll and how fire damage takes off frost even on s. This all leads to believe that this is an intended feature that just needs some tuning.

[@incius8341]

@@Joseph-vc7uk or how poison moth flight heals your opponent whether you land the hit or not

[@harissales9257]

What mods do you guys use to view attack hitboxes like that in-game? Seems like it would be useful as an educational tool

[@killervic7379]

Great work on this one

[@pegolini1179]

I hope that after the crouch nerfs the take a look at some of the running attack outliers.

[@blackironseamus]

power stance great spear also has crouch to jumping L1 pseudo combo

[@Joseph-vc7uk]

I like the changes they made on twinblades, that speed increase made them much more usable. I just think that they should up the damage a bit on the first hit when two handing, as well as increasing the speed a bit more on the R2, they are very close to actually being good.

[@incius8341]

I feel like if you increase the damage on the little swings it suddenly becomes broken. I feel like this weapon class is always 1 patch away from being terrible or insanely strong idk.

[@Kurozu1991]

UGS is simply the funnest weapon to use right now. I'm a mage but might have to go strength for DLC.

[@insane992]

renounce the int blue pill, return to unga bunga

[@BBBerti]

What if you're a mage using UGS 👀. The crouch poke combos with slicer 😩

[@Kurozu1991]

@@BBBerti IDK man I guess I just prefer int/dex, but I do run 14 STR and 15 DEX so I can use Zweihander and the Royal Greatsword as well

[@siegwardinspirit]

@@BBBerti muscle wizard

[@BBBerti]

@@siegwardinspirit exactly 😤🙏

[@wocbenkt]

Whats the "Murkys 16 estus" ram ranch video from?

[@Data-AnalystSera]

I do hope they nerf Transient Moonlight in pvp again, maybe cutting the damage by 40-50% to players. For its insane speed, it still deals far too much danage. I'm okay with having a high stagger speed attack, but 900 damage with minimal investment is a little bit insane, especially because the closest attacks in terms of speed and range deal 3-400 damage

[@Brandon_Y.]

if it's only pvp thing. sure

[@Data-AnalystSera]

@@Brandon_Y. Well, they now have the ability to only nerf it in pvp alone, so I don't see why a nerf in both would be warranted, especially because nearly god damn everything in pve is pretty busted

[@envoyofrot7046]

Yeah, it is just ridiculous the speed to damage and FP ration along with range is insane

[@termiguin1]

Idk I feel like it's fairly predictable as long as you've fought against it once, and a 40-50% damage nerf would just make it not worth using with an int build compared to other options. But a 20% nerf? I feel like that's more fair

[@johndang55]

I think they should nerf it to be like sacred blade, where it does a weaker projectile but buffs the weapon with more magic attack, that way people would actually do some 1’s instead of spamming weapon art.

[@mayhemivory5730]

now you’re making me feel even more stupid xd. i haven’t been able to dodge a single colossal sword attack since the patch, crouch or not. great video, please keep it going! i’m getting into pvp more and more now; i hope they keep improving it.

[@Amir0]

If it's the rolling attack, try moving away preemptively and rolling only if you are still in range. If you can't move in time before it will come out, you can try prediction rolling it if you can't trust that you can consistent reaction roll it. If it's the crouching attack likely coming, either move in diagonally or space it out and punish. If it's not possible in time(Eg. you are stuck in an animation) simply focus on them and reaction roll. Actually while you're moving in you should be ready to reaction roll should they do an attack that can't be avoided with the current timing via the two means I mentioned. On worse connections keep in mind that you'll likely have to roll more unless you've strafed/spaced in advance.

[@orey837]

Tbh the crouch poke glitch has made "shield poking" insanely fun. I will be sad to see it go, but that glitch needs a patch.

[@Strider_Roshin]

This was such a good change. Before this I would rather not attack at all rather than poke from a roll.

[@mesuzuko]

What song is playing at the beginning ?

[@SoNaraka]

Do you have video on how they could fix the connection for PvP just so laggy

[@johnnyb529]

Do you play with MKB?

[@jaredmulconry]

I heard some nasty glitch was in the wild. I haven't encountered it since 1.08 came out, which is hopefully a good sign.

[@alexanderschweinehunde167]

Now they just need to fix the thrusting swords running attacks

[@airbornezombie7655]

Those are fine lol

[@foolishmetaunedited1920]

i would've said and told everyone possible to abuse the poke glitch because the more people that use it the more attention it can be given and the better likelihood of it getting fixed, imo

[@MrGhostTheBigRoast]

And ruin the game for everyone else

[@foolishmetaunedited1920]

@@MrGhostTheBigRoast when the imo, I don't know everything but if it doesn't get much light it will be like how bowglitch has lived and still does in ds3

[@frazfrazfrazfraz]

@@MrGhostTheBigRoast the faster it ruins the game the faster the devs will fix it

[@itzali4238]

Is the vid sped up or how ur so fast ?!

[@alanrichter7085]

thx for your work

[@darklordbingus8705]

bro i always wondered what was going on with the halberd in right and rapier in off hand and now i understand

[@Deoxippus]

Pretty sure that was just because there are true combos with halberd/rapier. The crouch poke glitch seems new, assuming that is what you were talking about.

[@Ichengo42]

1:20 I'm sorry, but like... what is your framerate? I'm watching you and the guy you're fighting moving back and forth really fast and I've never seen anyone move that fast... or did you just speed the clip up slightly?

[@colorgreen8728]

One problem with the dodge pokes, bloodhound step

[@admostes2856]

Added four pillars to one of three arenas. I'm sure that's enough cover against mages.

[@fishyboy2140]

And dragon incants.

[@SurvivalHorrors]

I'm not sure how I'd balance 2h rapiers, but I wouldn't put out an umbrella nerf for all light weapons reducing their poise damage, doesn't sit right with me, all that does is promote mindless button mashing on the opposite side.

[@GawlNo1]

Well put and concise as always I hope they don't drop the ball on the pvp patches🤞

[@fletcherman900]

petition to change "wave dash" or "goblin step" to "miyazaki shuffle"

[@swordierre9341]

How do you think they should deal with the spell spam in 3v3s

[@BigHatLoganGaming]

just play with zero blue flask refills.

[@cowsticker9618]

How did you obtain such a large amount of golem greatarrows? Surely not farming?

[@Zero-0-Cypher]

Also another new feature was introduced with the update... My player compass icons and player map icons are missing, idk where anyone is... Thanks.

[@weebto]

You're among the best content creators this community has to offer. I just want to thank you for reaching out to fromsoftware to improve everybody's online experience and for keeping us updated in the most unbiased, informative and visually intuitive way possible. Mad respect for your work!

[@sayhellotomylitleful]

Fix the power stance Lance without touching the crouch of two handing the lance.

[@PDfrens]

Anyone know if the zero Stan glitch was patched also?

[@Lil_Schmeat]

"wave dashing" Amir: hm yes. tekken

[@TheKoop1]

Common Amir W

[@beastmuncher527]

Thanks Amir :)

[@PUREBLACKWORLDTENDENCY]

Amazing work

[@strikerhutassa]

THIS PATCH IS SO GOOOOOODDDD

[@H0ll0WDallas]

My hero been waiting for this ty soo much i would say abuse the bug brings attention to the dier need of it being fixed thats just my odd logic again hugeee ty

[@bladeoflucatiel]

"poke glitch" Let the feast begin

[@batgaming9648]

I still dont understand why there isn't a proper buff for heavier weapons. When I'm in a colloseum session and I see some dudes with thrusting weapons vaporizing those with colossal weapons, even poise breaking them like there aint no hyper armor then I really dont see any benefit for using Bonk.

[@FakeHeroFang]

Goblin step is an amazing name

[@pandemonium2536]

The one crouch rapier nerf may have been useless but any nerf to thrusting weapons is a good change no matter how small

[@nathanpapp432]

All of the thrusting swords, paired straight swords, sacred relic sword, moonveil, and beast roar still need nerfs.

[@jimbylomb]

YOOOO THEY FIXED THE CROUCHING OFFHAND RAPIER THINGY

[@able.3566]

How are you able to back stab so well? I can't pull off backstabs for the life of me even when I'm out playing my opponent.

[@wellawoods1660]

youre a real one

[@realcuondaotherside]

I kinda dig the ability to snap and have the drag of the thrusting sword do damage. If they made the hitbox smaller, that would be enough. It's not easy to pull it off in PvP a lot of times anyway.

[@colorgreen8728]

Dual spears need to get slapped even harder imo, also dual great spears

[@finnmacdiarmid3250]

The unlocking into an attack into a target lock virtually teleports the weapon tip somewhere through the enemy. Program mechanic abuse is the new meta unfortunately.

[@haiuuu7]

Use dual daggers and u will see the pain that is to fight some of these copy/paste builds.

[@a-abelase9887]

Excuse me but I don't have enough context. How are you so sure that From's developers will watch your video? I surely hope they'll do because you brought up some good points and I definitely agree with everything

[@termiguin1]

Iirc Amir and a few others are in some sort of group chat with a fromsoftware dev to speed up the process of player feedback. Has definitely helped thus far

[@a-abelase9887]

@@termiguin1 than you so much for the answer ^^

[@Amir0]

This incorrect, we are not in a group chat with a fromsoft dev. We have however spoken with bandai employees/repersentives. They have stated they think Fromsoft would def appreciate our feedback and went through the effort to forward our website articles through email to the developers at Fromsoft. We also know the feedback forwarded for sure has influenced their changes due to countless parallels I have pointed out and will continue to point out in future videos.

[@a-abelase9887]

@@Amir0 Thanks, that's so wholesome. Keep up the great work!

[@In-Nihilum]

He he substantially massive weapon with a rapier in the off hand go brrrrr

[@Omega77232]

and people say that removing wavedash will make pvp shallow lol

[@Stephetheon]

the "goblin-stepping" nerf/patch kinda ruined co-op for me. I used this a lot for Fire Giant and Radahn.

[@cherrycola4476]

Maybe Colossal weapons will get buffed next patch

[@vkory4861]

I really hope your recomenations reach From Software Devs

[@LoudMouth_]

I know for some it may feel condescending but my god I wish my job had people willing to go through and pinpoint bug fixes for me.

[@sirsmokeal0t207]

please name just one single person that didn't love murky in dark souls 3. why is it a problem to have an even longer one now? great video, it is very interesting to see these indepth views of the gamemechanics

[@PoisonJarl71501]

Ngl, the roll catching is still insanely good and I can kill in 3-4 hits with guts crouch poke

[@dargons5145]

Personally I don't think they need to nerf the damage of dual wield attacks. I think it would make more sense to nerf their movesets instead. Similar to how it is with katanas right now maybe. There's more than enough reason to use either single or dual katanas depending on your preference. But for many other weapon types, dual movesets are either straight up as useful or even more useful as their single weapon counterparts, or they just survive off of their jump attacks being kinda ridiculous. Like halberds, for the most part they seem fairly balanced moveset-wise, but whenever I see anybody dual-wielding them they just use jump attacks.

[@Eo-ms3kw]

I don't really see a reason to use a single Katana. Dual Katana jump attack and crouch attack are just way stronger than anything the single Katana moveset has to offer.

[@dargons5145]

@@Eo-ms3kw okay fair. tho that kinda harkens back to the exact same jump+crouch problems. but as far as I've personally seen, a lot more people use single katana compared to say, single straight sword, single curved sword or single spears.

[@Unorthodox2049]

I didn't know people refered to the crouch spamm as wavedashing lol. That's kinda hilarious actually

[@youtubewanderer3347]

Goblin step was funnier to me

[@frazfrazfrazfraz]

Yeah I know they talk like crouch and uncrouching was some elite technique Sadly it seems like it overshadowed the FAR better name, goblin step

[@nekotorvic3026]

Ive had a burning hatred for thrusting swords since dark souls 1. To me theyve always seemed like ridiculous weapons with too much tracking and too much damage for their ridiculous speed. They seemed ok in dark souls 3, but in elden ring people can just stack stupid amounts of poise and just run and poke, run and poke, quickstep poke. Its so cheesy and you cant interrupt them unless you can poise trade. So the fight becomes a massive drag of them doing the same shit over and over again and any mistake on your part is a 5th of your health gone. I hope they are addressed because its annoying to see people immediately resort to a thrusting sword with a status effect that procs even when it doest hit you because they cant have good mixups so they just rely on a bs weapon to ease the fight.

[@jik9693]

What If I just love my flamboyant rapier and not the effectiveness of it?

[@nekotorvic3026]

@@jik9693 It's totally fine. thrusting swords are cool, I understand that and I have no problems with players thinking this. I just want Fromsoft to balance them properly. I do however have a problem with players who use different weapon types only to switch to a thrusting sword when they can't get hits in because their mixups are bad. But again, it's more a problem with the weapon being a bit bs rather than the players taking advantage of it.

[@Peraliq]

duel lances and spears are so annoying and corny. I have to learn my entire moveset on my ultra mace but then i get rolled punish so easily by a dude just mashing R1...

[@S0L1016]

1 Dual curved sword run attack w/ bleed doing 90% of my hp

[@S0L1016]

Good balance patch 💪

[@kamekache]

u are so goated its insane

[@zenreeio13lIIIl]

This video deserves 999999 views

[@jeanpierrepolnareff9919]

Smart solution: just make it parriable Dumb solution: change the frame data like it's a fighting game.

[@captainwafflezs4799]

1:48 My meme made it into an Amir vid. I can die peacefully.

[@bruhed1117]

Th the issue with crouch poke isn’t that it’s unbalanced, it’s just that it’s literally all that anyone uses and it makes pvp boring as shit