What The Hell Went Wrong with Subnautica Below Zero?

[@iAletho]

What did you think of Subnautica Below Zero?

[@Baguette18]

i like it more than the first

[@iAletho]

@@Baguette18 Fair enough Baguette! What is it that you prefer about BZ compared to the original? :)

[@Baguette18]

@@iAletho Pretty much everything you said was bad XD. Not as terrifying, more obvious biome transitions, more fleshed out story, and all the creatures

[@iAletho]

@@Baguette18 Thats cool, I definitely liked the leviathans included in the game, I just wish there was more of them! Have to agree to disagree on the story but I suppose that's a matter of opinion :) thanks for watching anyway Baguette, appreciate ya!

[@Conman-zi1ou]

I think adding a voice to the main character took away some of the fear that the first gave me. When I had Al-An or Robin talking I felt way too comfortable in areas where I shouldn’t have.

[@DrackieOfficial]

They seemed to completely forget that subnautica's success was due to how small and alone you felt in a mysterious world, a smaller world with talking characters and constant lore explanation take's away from this, hopefully they learn for their 3rd game

[@iAletho]

Yeah I agree Drackie, the combination of the smaller world and the poor story decisions put a dampener on the overall game which was disappointing, but hopefully they'll learn from this for Subanutica 3! Thanks for watching :)

[@justnormal2521]

That's right yeah that's why it felt wrong, I hope the third game has a huge map and maybe we meet a sea emperor baby

[@Skrenja]

Yeah, and it's way less scary. A huge appeal of the original Subnautica is just how damn horrifying it was, even though it's not a "horror" game.

[@lestertheguy1734]

@@Skrenja ghost leviathan AGAIN, DO *N O T* LOOK HIM IN THE FACE

[@justnormal2521]

@@spritsfal5088 I liked it when you didn't talk, it felt more lonely

[@TheAweDude1]

One thing I really liked about the Cyclops was how it really felt like something you were not necessarily equipped to handle. You were basically using a vehicle designed to be operated by three people, and trying to run it all by yourself. You couldn't do two things at once, if you were driving that meant you couldn't repair anything. If you were repairing internal or external damage, you were a sitting duck. It felt overwhelming, and in a good way. I wished they leaned into that and made a ship that was bigger and more complex, to really baffle the mind, and enhance any sense of danger.

[@anzek25]

That is actually a good point. Probably unintentional, but stiil. Good observation.

[@sfox7735]

@@anzek25 when crafting the pda tells you the cyclops is designed to be operated by 3 ppl, i def think they were leaning into this at least a little bit on purpose

[@yuruyenucakmarsta4181]

Cyclops is indeed meant to be operated by 3 people but the name cyclops comes from the fact that even 1 person would be fine operating it himself. That is why cyclops is a good sub among its the competitors. You can read the databank entry.

[@nick33ee]

@@yuruyenucakmarsta4181 thats the reason or because of the "bubble" window where you drive it makes it look like an eyeball

[@Sharkamfss]

Pursuing a smaller scale in Below Zero limited them in that part. The seatruck itself felt too big for some cave entrances and biomes, and anything bigger would've just been unusable.

[@ril3y649]

I love how in Subnautica you have to go through massive leviathans, a lost river and literal hell to get to one specific organism that can cure the Kharaa virus, and then in Below Zero you take two plants that are easy to get and you already found the cure

[@alexthegamer8433]

Yes this is stupid, but to be fair it’s because they’ve analyzed the enzyme that the emperors made and replicated it, still dumb but within the realm of believability to me at least

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

@@alexthegamer8433 nah, I disagree. It undermines itself

[@eyjay1508]

@@alexthegamer8433 In subnautica its stated that the enzyme is so complex its impossible to replicate.

[@william3100]

​@eyjay1508 realistically, that makes no sense. They would have replicated the enzyme by now.

[@eyjay1508]

@@william3100 The ancients that had technology x1000 times superior to the one humanity has now couldn't replicate it.

[@meowmere64]

I think the games biggest problem for me was that the map didn’t have the feeling of vastness that the first game did. In the first game every thing looks the same from above the water but just below is a vast, deep, and unknown word with lots of diverse geography and creatures. In below zero the above water areas made the map restricted making it feel much smaller than in the original game.

[@iAletho]

Totally agree, everything in Below Zero seems to be scaled down, even the Leviathans! There just wasn't as much wonder involved this time around, although being the second game in the series that is to be expected. Everything just felt to cramped and small, the missing wide open spaces were definitely missed here. Thanks for watching Meowmere!

[@AverageSuperNova]

calling bz small is an understatement, one of the developers told us a few months before release that it's 1/6th the size of the original in surface area

[@iAletho]

@@AverageSuperNova that figure sounds about right to be fair, let's hope the new subnautica game that's rumored to be in the works learns from Below Zero's mistakes. Thanks for watching AverageSuperNovae!

[@gachax5703]

@@iAletho would be cool if It was a new Planet and 4546b all over again or of it's still 4546b It could be and entire area different like idk the other side of the entire planet

[@PacedFast]

I agree. Hopefully we’ll see a bigger sequel to the Subnautica series.

[@rattled6732]

Their biggest mistake of the developers was to try and make it less scary. The terror and suspense was one of the best thing about subnautica

[@npc2153]

Yup. I love subnautica but ive played it so much i basically know where everything is the and the terror of not knowing whats gonna kills you and how is gone. I loved that feeling of utter dreae of whats behind the next rock. I have as many hours in Ark but i play it a little more because every game is always different. Even the so called easy zones can draw in predators to come a kill you. I really hope subnautica 3 is as good as 1.

[@Tim_Sorrow]

well, you see, they never wanted to make it scary, so subnautica below zero is how the first game should’ve been.

[@nnelg8139]

@@Tim_Sorrow well then the first game "should have" sucked. Games need to follow the fun, even when it differs from the original creative vision.

[@hullie7529]

@@Tim_Sorrow There are parts in the first game that are clearly made to be scary, like the Blood Kelp zone or the descent to the alien base, or how you can hear leviathans screams before you see them. I think what they mean is that it wasn't conceived like a horror game, and that's true, but they weren't oblivious to the sense of dread that open waters instill in most people.

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

@@hullie7529 Exactly. While early gameplay could be a little vague on which parts were intentionally made to be scary and which parts weren’t, the later sections definitely seem more and more obvious that they were deliberately scary

[@Jed-vn9mo]

Another factor is lighting. In the original game the lighting was sparse and highlighted moments like entering the grand reef or seeing the cove tree for the first time. In below zero the whole map is lit up in wierd and sometimes ugly ways, taking the wow out of significant moments.

[@EvoFTG]

I've been trying to articulate the 'why' for so long, besides the usual small map angle. I agree, the lighting is weird and feels artificial. It feels neon lamp rather than bioluminescence.

[@Bluuuuuu01]

Yess, every single thing in this game is glowy to the point where I really got fed up with it. In the original subnautica the biomes I loved most where the mountain region and the dead zone around the aurora. They were just incredibly atmospheric without being flashy and cramped

[@glorifiedonion6676]

Exactly, entering a bomb and you'd get slapped with different lighting types like a wall. In the origional if you got close to the aurora it would get ever more murky

[@vividdaydream1516]

I wish they'd stayed with their original plan for Below Zero to be a DLC addition to the original Subnautica. The idea of swimming so far out into Subnautica's ocean that you eventually reach the planet's polar ice caps is really cool - and the same goes for vice versa, swimming so far out past the icebergs in Below Zero that you eventually reach the open ocean and all it's terrors.

[@Spanner_Man]

This would have been a better way. Could also include progression between crossing over the void to/from each secrion too with an upgrade needed to help "mask" against the void critters. Also with BZ they had to also re-write the story too which is obvious at how short and badly assembled the BZ storyline is.

[@justamanofculture12]

Money is the reason brother........... 🌚

[@NKorru]

On the other hand, this solution wouldn't use a full potiential that current BZ has.

[@danieldickson8591]

A volcanic upheaval in the Lava Lakes could have uncovered a lost Precursor/Architect facility with a warp gate large enough for the Cyclops, enabling rapid transport from the crater to the polar ice cap, without having to face whatever haunts the oceans.

[@jonlangfitt]

Absolutely. I'd rather use the extra additions in the original game. Just way more to do and panic quit on creative mode because deep water is still jarring as a god.

[@kyltredragmire4939]

For me it was the progression. Subnautica's progression is so smoooth. You just sorta naturally progress in an ever more downward direction with better vehicles, upgrades, and tools.

[@CircmcisionIsChi1dAbus3]

I loved the first, immediately played the second and was immediately like, "um, what's going on?" and I got a few hours into and I was actually getting bored, I saw what they did with trying to encourage free diving but it didnt seem to work very well. the sea truck is also really stupid...this would have been much better as an addon to subnautica.

[@Terrymclarry]

I wish they would’ve have expanded the vehicles and still kept the originals with a better and vaster map so that you could have had a bigger submarine and the seatruck because I find taking them all out and starting from scratch was dumb

[@Kajos_100]

​@@CircmcisionIsChi1dAbus3 originally it was planned to be a DLC to Subnautica, but i guess the project got too big

[@CircmcisionIsChi1dAbus3]

@@Kajos_100 would have been a decent add on =/ i dont see how an add on can be "too big" just needs to be split up and marketed as several add ons. You lose SO much of the original game though, that's whats so frustrating about it. the base building was horrible, that damn mack truck of a replacement for the seamoth made exploring absolutely annoying, everything was cramped so the thing was pretty much useless. meh- was a disappointment to say the least. plus I dont hear many things great about the story either. the original games ending was renowned and deep and esoteric.

[@IsThisUsernameAvailable]

True! I'm close to beating Subnautica for the first time and I honestly cannot remember how I got to the place I am, it all felt so smooth that I didn't even realize until now how far I've come in the game

[@lukavrro2338]

I mistook the shrimp leviathan for the equivalent of an oversized sand shark when I first played below zero 😭 I practically ignored it, where compared to the reaper leviathan I nearly shit myself

[@korien8976]

The Reapers are still so terrifying, but the BZ Leviathan is just meh.

[@justamanofculture12]

True bro

[@TheBrickSquad11]

The design was really interesting tho

[@gotem370]

Yeah because being terrified and helpless is a blast, not, weirdo

[@scubasteve3032]

Shrimp just doesn’t inspire fear in me, unless it’s old and gives me food poisoning.

[@maxwendling402]

i finished the game without ever even finding the frozen leviathan. i didnt even know it existed until i found out about it online. i wondered why the sam storyline felt incomplete. the fact that i was allowed to finish the game without wrapping up the main storyline is insane to me

[@orlandolaurentiu731]

I made it past half of the game without ever meeting Alan. I had to restart because i couldn't progress due to the lack of diamonds and found Alan in my second playthrough.

[@gothamwarrior]

@@orlandolaurentiu731I actually really like how you can start the Al-An storyline at any point in the game. I just wish the main story was Sam with the Al-An story taking over for the second half of the game.

[@bric305]

@@gothamwarrior That was the plan at first, but they add problems with their story writter(s?) and they had to change it once or twice, that's why we have these 2 stories that both try to be the main plot

[@fernosan]

I had gone to every Margerite location and didn't understand all locked places. I even went to the Phi antenna while on the Prawn and nothing happened. Then, I went back *on foot* for some resource and only the it triggered the cutscene with her Prawn. That was the moment I realized the progression would be bad

[@safe-keeper1042]

Same. I never found it and didn't understand why it wasn't in the game. Then I went online and realized I would have come across it if I had gone down a random easily missed crack in an ice wall. JFC, BZ was badly designed.

[@crobodile]

My favorite part of Subnautica was quickly discovering a new region or cave, but being too terrified to enter. Progression happened as I learned to face my fears. In BZ I just drove my truck around everywhere looking for stuff and if anything attacked me I just left click and I'm safe.

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

Caves are the safest places in those games.

[@rileywalsh9567]

Idk I went in blind and the game scared the shit out of me a handful of times but ya sub 1 was scarier

[@Comboowo]

@HarambaeXelonmuskfans I actually started playing Below Zero before the OG Subnautica (don't ask why, because I have no idea). There wasn't much of a fear factor for me when I explored _underwater,_ but dealing with the ice worms and other stuff on land was probably the only moment where I genuinely was scared to progress. Still, it wasn't exactly a good kind of fear-- mostly just being annoyed by the difficult-to-navigate land sections and constant danger. The underwater areas definitely aren't scary in Below Zero, though. I can't recall any times where I've hesitated in any meaningful way when exploring new areas. Just felt like tedious fetch quests to find the next thing you need to progress, and the only hazards are getting your seatruck stuck in a narrow passage.

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

@HarambaeXelonmuskfans naw, I cut my teeth on the sequel then played the first and I can see clearly that the sequel wasn't as good and as frightening as the first one for a lot of reasons. Honestly, as much as I enjoy Subnautica, the Dev Team does not impress me- quite the opposite. It seems like the things they got right were on accident and the dummies still argue with their Customers about whether or not it's a horror game. I am not excited for Subnautica 3.

[@rileywalsh9567]

@@gregoryl.levitre9759 I mean it really just depends if you find deep oceans scary or not and whether or not you got spoiled a leviathan watching videos

[@edenengland1883]

I think the funniest thing with Below Zero's story is that Robin's *sole* reason for believing Sam was murdered was that "she wouldn't mess anything up" meanwhile Sam's death was caused by her... messing something up and accidentally blowing herself up and crushing herself trying to cause a cave in, with the area she wanted to cave in being completely unaffected, also known as.... her getting herself killed.... due to negligence

[@RedDogDragon]

You pointed out a lot of the story flaws I didn't even realize, but the one part that I did notice that bugs the hell out of me is that Robin's plan was basically suicide as she had no means of escaping a deserted planet.

[@iAletho]

Haha yep thats certainly true, how she would got out of there is anyones guess. I'm sure Altera would have liked to put her in prison too if she ever made it back to civilization... Thanks for watching and the thoughtful comment Red Dog Dragon!

[@Ronnie10011]

I don't actually think she ever planned to get back off the planet, it was always a second thought, because even in the intro we see her preforming an extremely suicidal plan by flying close to the astroids to shield herself from alterra (which causes her to crash). All she really wanted was closure on her sister Sam's death.

[@iAletho]

@@Ronnie10011 I suppose that could be the case Robin! But doesn't she say to that guy at the start that she was going to make her own way back? (She could be lying though). Thanks for watching Ronnie!

[@Ronnie10011]

@@iAletho maybe she did mean it, but it also could of been a lie to reassure who she was talking to on the ship to actually let her go through with the plan (because they seemed to actually care about her well-being)

[@iAletho]

@@Ronnie10011 That's possible! I never really took it that she might be on a suicide mission, but I can see where you're coming from that she would want to reassure people she cared about if that was the case!

[@KataisTrash]

The large empty areas really were what made Subnautica for me too. There's a unique sense of uneasiness when you're near the surface and don't know what's lurking right below you.

[@1God1Fury]

driving seamoth or cyclops in open ocean during night and unable to see surface - that's the dread for ya

[@jakeforgey5378]

Them also ditching the established lore for the universe is a major issue... as is a specialist at making SPY CAMERAS creating a chemical compound that capable of doing what a race of super intelligent beings beyond human intelligence couldn't... with a pepper sprout and another common ingredient i didn't care to remember the name of... i think it was the fur of the snow-beasties... or was it on of the fruits? meh either way it had 0!!!! chance at being well liked by those who actually played the first and attempted to do more than build biggest bases in creative mode...

[@gaminggeckos4388]

Fealt more just boring to me. Kinda feel like it coulda been better if there was some kind of sailboat that could only move on the surface, at a faster speed. With a cool holographic looking sail or something

[@anon1963]

There's water below you

[@jimi_jams]

The Dunes is that one zone I rarely set foot in. The expanse of emptiness combined with those roars is so unsettling.

[@foxboydragon9608]

One other thing to note is the color palette. In Subnautica things were far more muted, and if everything was vibrant, it was often either stand alone, or alongside other things akin to it, a few examples being the plants in the Shallows, the grass in the Grassy Plateaus, or the kelp in the Blood Kelp Zone. Then there's also cases where the creatures match the environment, with the Ghost Leviathan and Crab Squid matching either the Blood Kelp or the Grand Reef, the Reapers muted colors with the dusty dunes or crash zones, or the dark with occasionally bright spots that the Sea Dragon and Lava Zones had. What does the Chelicerate go with? It's a giant armored monster that doesn't have any notable camouflage ability, nor does it really fit in with its areas. The Shadow leviathan sort of does, but not quite as well as the leviathans in the previous game. BZ was just too...bright, too vibrant, it was trying to instill urgency, or it was supposed to, but nothing really did. That's another thing "Urgency in the story" in Subnautica, you hear through logs and the scanner about the global infection, what it does, and how it progresses, with effects even visible on the character. Sure, you won't actually die or suffer in any way from it, but it's still the narrative urgency of "Oh god, I need to fix this" that makes it even more interesting. In BZ, Alan mentions that Robins brain will eventually collapse or something from his presence, but we see no actual evidence of that, they just...talk...that's it, there's nothing else to actually MAKE us want to progress, and that's just a crying shame.

[@azertyytreza1323]

It's very true, every animal matches their environment in Subnautica, and they are only found in specific areas. There is glowing creatures in deep glowing areas. The creatures of the lost river also match the dead ghostly atmosphere of it. The ampeels match the bulb zone, sea sea treaders match their desertic environment. In Below Zero, it seems that only the creatures on ice are matching their environment. In the shiny twisty bridges, there is a bone shark. Them and the chelicerates are found a bit everywhere. When we find a new area, like the cave with the cotton flowers, there is only a squidshark, but we have already seen them in the surface biomes... And in the chrystal caves, there is just a shadow leviathan. It is very poor in comparison to the first game, where everytime we would enter a new area, we would discover a bunch of new creatures that seem to be a part of their ecosystem.

[@keelykerr7249]

On the sense of urgency note, I think just even knowing that Robin came there intentionally knowing she'd at least be staying there for a period of time to do research combats any urgency and people prior were successfully living there doing research - in fact I don't think any death of the prior research team result from a struggle to survive being on the planet. In Subnautica, most people didn't land intending to stay a while [including the player], and the majority didn't survive in their efforts to stay alive on the planet, let alone create a comfortable way of life.

[@NiCoNiCoNiCola]

That's what happens when you remove the plot points of a guy literally putting the entire planet under a massive blockade, the Orbital Station suffering from a planmed Kharaa infection, you sharing your head with an alien and your sister being detained by corrupt Alterra Corporation agents. Now BZ feels less like a survival game and more like a colourful little adventure title

[@william3100]

​@keelykerr7249 maybe it's because BZ wasn't intended to have a lot of urgency?

[@armoredbluejay9364]

I wish they had stuck with the story they had set up in the beta, where Sam and Robin had been researchers working for Altera and Robin, in a attempt to find one of her missing coworkers before a snowstorm hits, searches an alien facility and gets Al-an stuck in her brain and has to hide that from Altera

[@thomac]

Agree, the plot we got now is as bad as the previous one if not worse. And I get being annoyed at having a structured plot, or not being happy with the voice actors, but I never fully understood why people were so mad at the initial plot and quieted down with the revised one.

[@itizwhatitiz9560]

I thought so too. In the Beta Robin didn't talk as much either, and concept of Sam was nice (someone that helps you from above).

[@saftigerkeks5212]

wtf that sounds so much more interesting. why would they scrap that??

[@armoredbluejay9364]

@@saftigerkeks5212 apparently a lot of people didn't like it

[@classypeanuts3352]

Iirc they scrapped that story because the dev who came up with it passed away. Why they didn't just continue that story I'm not sure. It was unique and interesting, what we have now is a rather dull experience with characters that don't shut their mouths

[@rg03500]

In my opinion, the Sea Moth is one of the most enjoyable video game vehicles of all time. It's so quick and zippy, and super easy to control. I always loved going out to search for resources or go exploring, simply because I got to drive around in my Sea Moth.

[@literallyaguythatexists6274]

You can still pilot the Seamoth in BZ via console commands It is a bit finicky and is an unfinished version of the Seamoth It glows a bright white, can't be docked in the moon pool, when you hover over the option to "enter" it or place modules and other stuff like that it just says "Placeholder" and the camera is very odd to say the least It is still cool that it still exists in the game

[@vitraartist2622]

And the snow fox is the worst

[@Cathowl]

Right? It felt GOOD to pilot the sea moth. Sometimes I would be on my way to this or that task, or coming home after an expedition... and I'd just have this moment of raw enjoyment of the way it felt to move in the thing.

[@JuanAntonioGarciaHeredia]

Cyclops

[@lucky6961]

the seamoth is the perfect balance, it's relatively cheap to craft, it's small and easy to drive HOWEVER, it definitely doesn't make you feel any safer when you hear a reaper's roar, even tough it's infinitely better then being without it, and above all, makes you familiar with vehicles and their upgrades, specially with the moonpool being compatible with the next step, prawn suit

[@misterfister5810]

A tiny thing that bothered me was the peepers Peepers are very infamous and recognizable, being known as subnautica’s mascot. and are shown in the shortcut icons when you boot up the game on pc, PlayStation, etc You see them almost everywhere in game, they even seem to have personality as they’re seen twirling or spinning around, even staring into your base windows curiously Below zero peepers on the other hand.. they don’t even feel as special, they’re reduced to this simple fish that swims around with broken animations, this boomerang’s more special lmao

[@asmonull]

First issue with BZ I noticed playing was how gamey it felt - in first game, the world was just there, for you to find your way through and figure it out, with the fact it was designed being very effectively hidden from the player. Even all guidance that was done never seemed too obvious - radio signals led you near areas that had resources necessary to progress, while still letting you find those resources on your own. Compared, BZ felt like going through a questlog and checking everything out one by one, with even world having checkpoints in form of breath plants at just the right distance you could go through a cave and never fear drowning.

[@iAletho]

It's definitely a less immerse world Asmo, The leviathans just ending up feeling like a chore by the end as well. At times I would just drive up and past them as I knew they couldn't harm me! Like I said in the video, not once did I die to any hostile creatures! Subnautica pushed the story forward using interesting items like the radio, but this game doesn't have any of that. All in all, I just expected a little more I suppose. Thanks for watching!

[@ore5849]

@@iAletho I played BZ on hardcore and by the end of the game I didn't really pay attention to the leviathans at all, despite permadeath. It just overall felt too arcade-y and handhold-y and it just lacked the isolation and feeling of being stranded in a vast world that actually made subnautica fun and scary. A smaller world wouldn't have been a problem if it was inherently more dangerous, but it was imho significantly less dangerous than the first game, which made it feel "unimportant" in way.

[@janiwil3528]

​@@iAletho The leviathans are very boring in subnautica you shit yourself when seing a reaper. In below zero especialy with the shadow leviathan it's like the "come on do sth" meme.

[@CorwinTheOneAndOnly]

The shadow leviathans are literally stuck into their own boss boxes in the middle of completely empty completely bright crystal caves. Big empty room in specifically crystal cave? Shadow leviathan. The single most gamey feeling part of the game for me.

[@night_hunter4752]

​@Corwin Keylon in subnautica it was either me or a video I watched were a dragon Leviathan actually chased me from the depths into the buld zone cave, it was like OH SHIT IT CAN COME UP HERE. Lol I think I even have a reaper stalk me into the safe shallows. 😅😂 My life pod was soon abandoned, and the reaper never left. Lol😂

[@gunnerstunner2804]

My biggest let down was the story, in the early access version of below zero the story felt more real and different from the first game, where sam was still alive and up in a spaceship talking to you, and you were doing a bunch of missions sending enzymes and such up to alterra. But i think they had some developer changes and the new developer scrapped the story and quickly made a new and rushed one because of time constraints, the old story also tied together the two stories with margurite and allan, where margurite helps you escape alterra in the end so you can go with allan to the new world, that put alot more meaning to margurites character because you can skip her entirely in the finished below zero

[@joshuaspromise]

That’s right! I played that until I ran out of available story. I remember being disappointed by the change.

[@Phaoray]

Yeah, I really liked her sister's voice and the sibling back and forth at times, so much potential with that and they sadly took it out.

[@burndemon100]

Oh I remember the first time they changed to make you look for that archeologist (which I believe become "alan", the alien in the final version) and get stranded due the meteor storm. The worst part is still that in the original Alterda is a greedy corporation BUT is all ironic and absurd, in below zero is all taken seriously, too seriously

[@destinyhntr]

I personally didn't like either version. I remembered liking the sister in the sky far more than the main character, who seemed super annoying.

[@Agt_Seven]

Yeah in the original story Sam was actually going to sell you out to alterra just to catch a break at work and get a big promotion, and I really wanted to see how that would play out in the full game, then they scrapped it entirely. Also they did my boy Vesper Station dirty. Even before the game came out in early access, the thing that ended up being the spy satellite that is only utilized once as a throwaway mission point for Marguerit was originally supposed to be a whole orbital outpost that alterra used as a base of operations on 4546B and it was a really neat idea. Then in the full release it's only significance is that you have to craft a random item to turn it off so Marg will let you in her base

[@DeathByZombieGames]

My main issue with below zero is that its just not as open it feels cramped. Like one of the main reasons why I love the first game is because of how open it is you can build crazy bases and when you're really deep down the openness makes it 100 times scarier.

[@danielthecake8617]

The three types of areas in below zero are cramped with insta kill geysers, cramped with leviathans, and open with the most horrifying crap ever. Like, the lily paddlers gave me nightmares while the shadow leviathan was easily defeated with a simple zap.

[@jacoballen7016]

As the player, I was very interested in the precursor race, and wanted to learn everything about them. But whenever Robin and Al talked, it was Al asking about humanity and Robin just telling Al that he's stupid for being the way he is. Despite Robin having a precursor in her head, we didn't get to learn much about them.

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

The Precursors are truly pathetically developed. Their tech isn't any better than human tech, but the Writer keeps trying to convince us that it is.

[@notaclass-d1822]

man its crazy how differently people can feel about experiences, i for one loved the interactions between Al and robin. not that theres anything wrong with you disliking it

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

@@notaclass-d1822 go read real science fiction. Your brain is being turned into a useless turd.

[@Elmithian]

​​@@notaclass-d1822 Tbf, the initial version of Robin during the early access was.... frankly put, intolerable. It was like listening to a person that buried their head in sand an constantly spoke out of their arse towards someone that was being reasonable and accommodating. The final version is a lot better, but you still see signs of that annoying part of them in some of the convos. It is fine to be defensive and whatnot, but when you are getting angry at completely reasonsble questions is where you lose me.

[@notaclass-d1822]

@@Elmithian im glad they changed for the better then, thank you for the information!

[@iRaphahell]

The turndown of Subnautica Below Zero for me is the clustered map, it gives me headaches when I think about it, I've tried giving it a chance 2 times, but just deleted the game and started playing the Original Subnautica again, such an amazing game with an easy to understand map

[@kevinboros7427]

Raphahell vereee! Nu mă așteptam deloc să te găsesc aici. Totuși mă bucur că ai aceeași opinie ca mine în legătură cu Below Zero.

[@kingdomoftransylvania5744]

Same, I always end up glitching out of the map or moving in circles, I had to use youtube tutorials to find out where I had to go.

[@RealMertar]

So all games should be made for people with learning disabilities? Go play Tetris.

[@iRaphahell]

@@RealMertar There is a huge difference between a difficult mechanic but still fun and a difficult mechanic that becomes very boring after a couple of times. That's how I felt with the map always going through weird underwater tunnels where you easily get lost

[@satana2807]

Lol ai dreptatre

[@Shamman_komanch]

The mystery was the key in Subnautica, i remember playing it in early access and marveling over parking my submarine inside a bigger submarine. But watching the enforcement platform shoot down Sunbeam and all of the questions that come with that, is the point where it grabs you and doesn't let go.

[@the_great_thinker6430]

I'm a big fan of the Subnautica: Crush Depth concept. It could flip everything upside-down, while still retaining everything that made Subnautica so great. Crush depth would take place at the bottom of the dead zone, the further up you go, the larger the spaces, and the larger the creatures. As the surface is the goal, you don't have access to the surface the entire game. You have to rely on bases and vehicles for air. It would also be a lot darker, emphasizing lights. But you have to be very careful. In the mid and end game, you can't expose yourself too much. Light draws attention. You're only safe from bigger things in the dark...but you aren't the only creature who's realized that. Small predators hunt in the dark too, having light when you shouldn't risks exposure, not adding lights when you need them risks ambush. I thought of it a creature with a bioluminescent spot light, used in a completely dark chamber. If you turn your lights on, or get caught in it's spot light, there is no hope.

[@adriftinglink]

That would be interesting, but they’d had to retcon that the ecological dead zone is not actually dead.

[@fin4771]

well I mean the whole thing as a deadzone doesn't work because it literally is a deadzone and it wouldn't really make sense (explaining this horribly but there's a reason its called a deadzone)

[@SkygerbyGameplays]

@@fin4771 Why do the leviathans spawn in the deadzones if they are truly deadzones? They must have something to feed on, right? And they are carnivores so not just algae or something. (or idk maybe there was an explanation for it that i dont remember)

[@fin4771]

@@SkygerbyGameplays iirc ghosties feed on microscopic life (adults

[@adriftinglink]

@@SkygerbyGameplays they are filter feeders I think. No idea what that means but that’s what they are.

[@araqweyr]

You are absolutely right. In some interviews developers did say that horror element of Subnautica was completely unintentional. They don't understand what made that game so successful ad even if they do, they didn't want that. What I think happened is they thought if that side effect as a mistake, probably due to their inexperience, so they've "fixed" it in the second part.

[@interiot2]

This. This is one of the most important comments on this video.

[@Grivian]

Their intended vision sucks

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

@@Grivian yep, they really don't know what they're doing.

[@JohnnySkrimblo]

And these 'creative visionaries' fired their amazing sound/music guy...... Over a joke on twitter.

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

@@JohnnySkrimblo communist useful idiots are all alike. They're all clones of the same mentally ill brainwashed person.

[@Heyyoudoyouwantto]

What killed the game for me was when I learned that nothing was really dangerous. They were a little scary to hear at first, but once I learned they were all bark and no bite, I felt like the game lost its tension and weight. Also, as you said, the main character wasn't terribly interesting and the story relatively generic, so I found it difficult to get invested.

[@asbjrnhalvorsen5535]

A large part of it for me was the isolation. In subnautica 1, you were alone at all times. Whenever you got a distress call, a hope of not being all alone but having it be crushed was crucial for the experience. A dread crept in after discovering everyone is gone and the paranoia of what took them also taking you was a big plus for me. Only in the last 30-45 minutes did you have someone, but even that wasn't a true companion. This is a point Bellow Zero missed. Even adding an actual model and character for Maida was a mistake in my opinion

[@DavidTMSN]

Exactly. It had the it factor of isolation and uncertainty. Also there was the sense of urgency early on before you head to the alien base.

[@bjkerp]

The first time you see the sunbeam get shot down... Like shit, now what?

[@asbjrnhalvorsen5535]

@@bjkerp Yes

[@gotem370]

Sounds like you have some sexual repression associated with being afraid, some of us like to game for fun, not sexual pleasure, weirdo

[@nosidenoside2458]

Not to be an ass but "bellow" means the accordion thing used to feed fires. It also means to yell. "Below" is probably what you meant to type.

[@NaumRusomarov]

story wise, in the first game you were inclined to go deeper and deeper. it was necessary to heal yourself and to figure out what happened, however at each step you were underprepared and lacking infrastructure, so you had to spend considerable amount of time base building and upgrading your tech to achieve that. When you reached the lava caves, it really felt like you were 1800 m underwater all alone on an alien planet with a big giant dino-fish trying to eat you. There's a bit of that in Below Zero, but not much really. Most of the areas are fairly small and feel claustrophobic, which I actually don't like because it makes it hard to figure out where you're going.

[@Mars-5103]

Especially sense the end game was just lava everywhere it really felt like an endgame place.

[@teimo4117]

@@Mars-5103 I liked the way you went to the lava biome, through many diffrent biomes and always deeper. Below Zero had nothing of that.

[@NovaNyx_czs]

I agree with the small, claustrophobic areas being difficult to navigate. It’s pretty ironic that I had a much easier time finding my way around in the first Subnautica than in BZ, despite BZ having a smaller map overall.

[@NaumRusomarov]

@@NovaNyx_czs small areas cannot have large objects around which you can orient yourself, at least in games like subnautica, so easy navigation becomes difficult for players. it can be fun sometimes, but usually it just ends in frustration.

[@teimo4117]

And the small areas too. I just played BZ again and I can't count how many times I went "I am so fucking LOST". Especially since the seatruck doesn't have the sonar module.

[@casualbird7671]

You really perfectly voiced all of my own opinions of this game. I wish the originally planned plot got to exist instead of what we were left with. Even meeting an architect kind of ruined the mystery, all subtlety was gone. The architect constructions also felt completely randomly placed and not like they had a useful function like the first game. In a way, below zero makes the previous game worse retroactively, by ruining the mystery of the architects completely.

[@sucide_is_not_a_joke9790]

Yea there was so much hope to get more lore about them to speculate how they look. And then just yea

[@geoffreyhastings7412]

One of the biggesty problems for me was the fact that the story seemed very disjointed. In the original, there were two simultaneous objectives. You had to build the rocket to get off the planet and you had to find a cure for the disease. The thing that made it so interesting is how intertwined these two story lines are. Even if you get the rocket, you can't leave until the virus is cured and the weapon is shut off. even if you managed to cure the virus and turn the weapon off, you were still stranded until you built the rocket. Both objectives were equally important if you wanted to make it off the planet alive. Below Zero tried to do the same thing with one story line following Sam, and the other following Al-An. The thing is, these two storylines have nothing to do with each other. Even if you never follow the Sam storyline at all never learn what happened to her, you still can just leave with Al-An and get to the credits. it's just two plotlines running next to each other but never converging of culminating in anything meaningful. If Al-An had refused to leave until getting the cure from where Sam had stashed it so he could bring it back to the other architects, then they could have merged the two and pivoted the plot into ultimately saving what was left of the architect race, but that didn't happen.

[@ajstyles5704]

I left without curing the kharra virus, its just so boring, I redownloaded and replayed just to get all achievements, but going on land just made me, bored out of my freaking mind, its just so tedius and with the violent weather constantly changing, sleep, sleep until good weather and then rush out, uninstall and said, "screw it"..

[@matijasostojic4288]

​@@ajstyles5704 What the hell Are You talking about? Like yea the walking is the worst part of the game but it isn't some unskipable 5 hour sequence or something. And how do You leave without curing the virus?

[@ajstyles5704]

@@matijasostojic4288 I left with Alan, literally I'm not joking, the one achievement I didn't get was injecting the cure to the frozen leviathan, I was like, screw it, don't know where it is and just went to Alan and left.

[@_MaZTeR_]

Or, the developers could've made it so that the Frozen Leviathan was infected with a strain of Kharaa to which the Sea Emperor enzyme wouldn't work. And because of the excavations done by Alterra, the strain was on the brink of leaking to the environment, which surely would have destroyed the whole ecosystem of the planet and now that the Quarantine Enforcement Platform was offline, possibly the whole galaxy. And because of one way or another, the plot demands that you encounter the Kharaa sample either before or after you meet Al-An. And when he finds out that the planet is in danger again, he tasks you to destroy Kharaa before you two can get out. Maybe there are some creatures already infected by the mutated strain, which you need to eliminate and destroy even after destroying the original sample on the frozen corpse.

[@_MaZTeR_]

@@matijasostojic4288 Just follow Al-An's plotline and leave when prompted to. You can absolutely ignore the frozen leviathan ever finding out how Sam died, and nothing changes.

[@CalussSelected]

One big win in my opinion for this developer team and series that I didn’t hear in the video during comparisons was that the new base building items, etc.. were all retroactively added to the first Subnautica game. Extending the old version of the game with the new options is not something they had to do at all, but they did anyway

[@Toksyuryel]

Unfortunately not all of them. I really want them to backport the control room!

[@jsamue12]

It's a really cool thing that they definitely didn't have to do, but i still feel no reason to go back and update my base with the new parts. Nothing really adds function, just decoration.

[@agk4589]

I would love to get the Jukebox in the original as well but I'm sure there are licensing issues with all of the tracks.

[@ValosiTiamata]

Honestly speaking, modders had already added those items into the base game. OW merely too what we were doing unofficially and made it official. Not saying it wasn't appreaciated that they did any updates at all, mind you. That's pretty rare these days.

[@danieldickson8591]

Even though that was a considerate touch and adds aesthetic elements to the original game, their presence in BZ isn't really enough to offset the newer game's deficiencies IMHO.

[@sliphstream4927]

My thoughts playing Subnautica: Man, I'm getting really far away from my base now. Getting nervous. Uh oh, where did that calm music go? Its too quiet. Getting more nervous. Oh no, I literally can't see the sea floor anymore; what could be down there? Getting more nervous. What made that terrible howl and where did it come from? Getting very nervous. PDA: " Multiple leviathan class organisms in the area. Are you sure whatever you are doing is worth it?" Ok, forget this. NOPE! TURNING THE SEAMOTH AROUND! My thoughts playing BZ: Oh, an ice wall. Guess I can't go this way. Huh, another ice wall again. Guess I HAVE to turn around. Oh, some angry sea creatures. They are so noisy and won't shut up. They're also super annoying. Guess I'll crank my jukebox up and play a jazzy song to drown them out. Why does this feel like an underwater work commute where I'm getting slowed down by bad drivers and road closures?

[@ryszardkaczmarczyk2471]

This might be a small thing, but i kind of missed the Aurora. In the original game it provided an orientation point and created a sort of natural border

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

There was also something creepy about seeing it in the ocean.

[@waluigihentailover6926]

Not to mention how every knew player really wanted to explore a massive destroyed spaceship!

[@HeliosDrive]

​@@gregoryl.levitre9759That's submechanophobia for ya!

[@ellemueller]

I felt like Delta Station Island in SBZ became that same kind of orientation point for me, but I hear you loud and clear.

[@Alextellez26]

⁠@@ellemueller Same here, I’m currently playing bz and I use that Delta Station as my orientation point but it just doesn’t feel like the first game

[@kieferholster4900]

I really wished they would've put the ice dragon in the game, it would've been huge and terrifying and have its own biome, what a missed opportunity. I also hoped that sometime after we cured the frozen leviathan it would break out and it would be the big bad that we had to escape from or take down the beastie to escape. So much potential. On the plus side the squidshark has gotta be my favorite creature from below zero.

[@iAletho]

Yeah I think that definitely would have helped, the game overall just felt so much smaller than the original unfortunately :( Despite what I said in this video I actually like the chelicerate leviathan, I just feel like it was a bit over used and more variety would have been good! Yeah I definitely think there was some missed opportunities in Below Zero's story, but hopefully they can fix them next time around!

[@thebush6379]

For me, the frozen leviathan is like the gargantuan remains of Sub-Zero. Just doesn't feel right to have them move around unless it's a mod

[@ThylineTheGay]

Ehhh, taking it down would be against what subnautica is about, that is, feeling small and helpless (which is why the original only had a few weapons that were meant to be used in a defensive way)

[@KaneyoriHK]

Between technical limitations and how it wouldn't've fit the subnautica's style, I am happy with it remaining frozen away.

[@akaliotp6766]

Nahhh don’t y’all say that now, most the community voted against it so don’t go crying back abt it. I knew it should’ve been in the game and knew it was messed up they didn’t add it but you know it is what it is.

[@spimkle]

The size was a major problem for me. I missed getting chased for a good half a mile by a ghost leviathan, screaming in terror at not knowing when it'd stop. Though, nothing was as scary as exploring the underwater base in the depths, trying to get in and out of the base as soon as possible before the octopus spider thing killed me. (Sorry if this didn't make sense, I struggle with grammar.)

[@gotem370]

What’s with all the fear perverts, maybe they wanted to make a game that was more fun and about the mechanics rather than some annoying ass leviathan screaming at you like a crackhead because they knew that was all you overly stimulated babies would require that to not review bomb their game

[@JustaLamborghiniCountachWhoCom]

Sadly most of the original story was scrapped during production. Robin actually felt like a character, and had great conversations with Al-An. The old plot device being a quarantine enforcement backup in the form of a planet wide shield generator was so much cooler than just leaving the planet with Al-An.

[@decimalheckery5737]

seriously! i hardly see anybody mentioning the old story, but it was 100% more engaging then this sam and robin felt like actual characters, and even with sam monitering you, you still felt some sort of dread even when a sea emperor was ingame, and you got the cure from it (which makes way more sense then sam fabricating it) you still arent done as trying to send the cure to the infected space station with your sister on it fails honestly i just wanna rant about how much better the old story was

[@Steam_VR]

@@decimalheckery5737 X2 I helped translating the game to Spanish, and holy fuck, the old story was so good compared to the retail one...

[@Ivan_Powrosnik]

Furthermore, they really could have had a better story by simply omitting the whole alien AI plot line and simply making altera the villains, they seriously had this potentially perfect explaination and throw it away by saying “nah Sam just went haha IED go brr, we had nothing to do with neglect”. If they had just made it so that alterra were trying to weaponise the khara bacterium after subnautica’s original protagonist returns to federation space and resume selling weapons after stoking tensions between the Mongolian and Chinese colonies they could have made Sam more interesting by having her attempt to destroy the frozen leviathan and research into the khara with the IED, thus covering it up and inciting the game’s events. Then you head to planet 4546b and begin tracing back the events, maybe show evidence of a cover up and for goodness sake remove marguerit, then either remove Alan or make it so that he helps you due to his investment in preventing the bacterium’s spread due to him having accidentally created or released it, then have robin’s motivation to follow him be wanting revenge on alterra or a basis on which to prove their involvement in bio weapons or the cover up. Of course this wouldn’t be perfect, but with previously established lore and implications it would make far more sense.

[@nbkarkat]

why would they scrap that? time constraints or resource constraints??

[@Steam_VR]

@@nbkarkat I think that the old writer was fired or something.

[@drathonix9930]

I'd like to add on that not only can you straight up not cure the frozen leviathan, but you can also complete the entire game without having to interact with the Sam plotline once. Robin came to the planet to investigate her sister's death and yet once ALAN is introduced she basically forgets. If you're going to introduce a speaking main character with character interests, you should have her be consistent. Its not like this couldn't be done either, you could have her refuse to enter the portal saying "I still have to find out what happened to Sam." or something of the sort, this would only make her character stronger.

[@boomer150]

I was far more interested in the aliens than her sister to be honest. We knew they existed from the first game, the buildings and such but now we got to talk to one and help them and at the end even see there world. Far more interesting that curing some frozen corpse of space syphilis. I only did the sister side quest to 100% the game.

[@GeneralTaco155555a]

@@boomer150 yeah, that's literally part of the problem 😂 The Sam plotline was so boring, and went nowhere. Like it sets itself up as a big mystery: Is Alterra lying? Did they kill her to silence her/stop her from doing something? Is she really dead? And then it ends EXTREMELY anticlimacticly: Sam is dead and just accidentally killed herself.

[@flyingsheep1539]

Whats interesting is that the sam plot used to not be a thing at all. Originally the player was a researcher living on the arctic base and Sam was living on a spacestation orbiting the planet and would talk to the player, until the connection is cut off by the storm.

[@JB-id4sf]

@@GeneralTaco155555a Right? I went into the game expecting political intrigue and mystery from Sam's plot. Like we know how horrible Alterra is, of course they did something? And when I found out what actually happened i almost missed it completely since there was hardly any reaction or emotional weight. You'd think given Robyn was desperate enough to essentially kill herself trying to figure it out there would have been... something? I really wished they would have focused on the mystery aspect of the story.. I really didn't care much about ALAN's story- not to mention the ALAN quests felt more like a scavenger hunt as opposed to actual exploration.

[@GeneralTaco155555a]

@@JB-id4sf I legitimately just kept searching for more info, because it was so dumb and unsatisfying. I don't even think Robin even has voice lines to show she's upset, she's just like "I have to finish what she started :)" And yeah, Sam asked her boss ONCE to stop researching the bacteria, and then ended up kiIIing herself trying to stop them, even though there was no indication they were even doing anything shady. Enzyme-42 exists too, so why is it even a big deal? And yeah AL-AN's whole quest was literally just a slightly more involved version of the "hatching enzyme/build the rocket" sections of the first game that everyone hated. I swear, people that actually like this game are delusional

[@bucketofsunshine6366]

You only briefly mentioned pacing and progression, but I would argue that this is another main point of where BZ went wrong. In the original, you were stranded on your own, lost and afraid. Even leaving the safe shallows when the stalkers were growling out in the kelp forests seemed a terrifying prospect at first. You were given time to explore your biome as you worked towards a repair tool to fix your lifepod. Then, the radio calls begin, and they slowly pull you out of your comfort zone to where you'll find things that you need. Don't have a sea glide yet? Good thing the lifepod that went down in the shallows is surrounded by fragments. Ozzy's lifepod, which was hit by pieces of the seamoth bay on the way down, is likewise surrounded by seamoth fragments, which you're likely just about ready for by the time you go out there. And then, you're likely to find your first big wreck to explore while you're down there, along with the jellyshroom caves, in which you'll find the lithium and magnetite to make ever more advanced tools. It's an amazing progression system which rewards exploration and bravery without overwhelming you with more than you need to know at any one time. But BZ is all jumbled up, especially when you come from the original and just start to widely explore your environment. But the cues you do get come at the wrong times, making it easy to get things well out of order. You listen to vaguely important messages well before you ever should have gotten them, only to forget about them by the time the information is relevent. You find tools far too quickly, having items that were practically end game in the original within only a few hours of play time, while missing basic items until practically the end. Ultimately, I didn't hate the game, but I didn't have any love for it either. Subnautica though, I keep going back to. I have 200+ hours in that game and I still feel the pull to play it time and again. So other than missing this one point, I wholeheartedly agree on your assessment.

[@carrotkid1]

Fun fact about the story in Below Zero: it had a major rework sometime late 2018- early 2019. It had nearly double the dialogue and made robin an employee of altera. If memory serves me right you needed to do three task to end the game. And after every task you were in communication with a giant satellite over the planet. I can remember only two of the three task, they were gather a sample of the karaa virus from the skeleton and gather enzyme 42 from a sea emperor . I’m not sure if it’s still in the game but at one point there was a sea emperor located in the Lilly pr islands. They also entirely reworked her sisters story: she finds out she died due to a lab accident in the satellite exposing her to the virus. It turns out that one of the guys on the ship was evil and started infecting everyone. The big climax of the story is that you, along with Al-an go to the big architect base over looking Sector zero and you reactivate the gun from the first game to blow up the satellite. You should also look up the alpha builds tutorials of the game: I think it was actually better than the release one.

[@kayagorzan]

I really quite liked that version of the story.

[@amog8202]

So they just made the game worse. Intentionally. Who's the director that ordered this and where do they live

[@matthewmartinez3550]

@@amog8202 The problem was, that old story went up to the ending when that dev left for reasons I forgot. Basically, the rest of the team couldn't finish the story well without him, so they reworked it to what we got now. The summary of that plot was this: You first hear Alan at the endgame base (the Gate Base, or as it was then, the Shield Base). The storm makes you need to leave, your partner Jeff leaves without you, so you have to go to the open ocean since your base was destroyed (the same one now under snow, you actually see the avalanche that causes it. it makes a tower fall on a frozen lake that is the same one you enter the zone from). Now, it's the same opening. Find the lifepod, find Alan. This sets up a conflict, as Altera would want to do harmful experiments on you if they found out. The notable difference is that the Sentinel (the satellite you need to hide from in the opening) is the Vesper, a space station visible from the planet, where Sam and some other Altera workers live. Sam tells you about the island, which is currently Rocket Island. Step one is to repair the rocket. Like with Marg and sabotaging the tower, the repairs needed require salvage from the Mercury II. I don't recall Marg being finished yet, but she was more of an endgame thing. She's just sorta there at this point outside of I think snowfox fragments. Jeff is also being weird, and never left. Once you make repairs, you need to visit the arctic zone. Sam tells you Jeff landed somewhere there. Parvan's bunker was Jeff's bunker. Another objective was retrieving some logs or something about what Jeff was trying to do. Alan notes that the data would expose that he's inside you, and edits it to keep the secret. You then need to visit the frozen leviathan and extract the virus. You send it up, and Jeff does some rambling, and somehow sabotages the shipment, infecting the Vesper Station with the virus. Now you need to find Enzyme 42. At this point, the lilypads are a safe zone, and home to several sea emperor children. You can get the enzyme from them. Once you send it up, surprise! Jeff activated another Architect security measure, a global shield! It destroys the Enzyme, and he demands you hand over Alan. On this cliffhanger, we reach the end of Early Access. Wait for 1.0 to see the ending! Except, of course, we didn't get that. From what we know, Marg's story was that she had the white tablet you need to enter the base one last time. Alan's body parts were yet to be fully implemented, and we needed him to release the lockdown. They used the artifacts as placeholders. The limbs were the gun, something was the doomsday bomb, and I forget what the third thing was. There wasn't a way to use them yet, but we knew of the fabricator caverns and crystal castle. The fabricator caverns also had a one way entry to the Shield Base. That said, the area wasn't reachable, as it was unfinished. All we know is that it had a tunnel leading to another hoverzone (outside region). There was a hidden ending console inside the then-inaccessible Shield Base hinting that the Vesper might have been blown up in the ending, if it wasn't a misdirect for any snoops.

[@GeneralTaco155555a]

@@matthewmartinez3550 from boundary breaking the game a bit, I remember too there was a pretty big canyon section where there presumably would have been snowfox race to/from Marguerit's base to near the Alien base. Just guessing, the Ice Worm would be trying to attack you trying to escape the area at some point

[@twilight3272]

@@matthewmartinez3550 A single dev left and they couldn't figure out how to finish the story in a satisfying way, so they made this horrible, disjointed mess instead? BZ feels like it never left development. :(

[@emilyrodriguez5445]

I feel the animals in below zero are a lot more grounded in reality, and while it's nice being able to draw a parallel between them and our animals, it also makes them feel less alien like and takes away the scariness of a totally unknown being

[@InvertMSM]

I like below zeros animals more they are more advanced and have more depth (no pun Intended) they feel more alien and unique. Story wise I like subnautica more

[@MyxteryZ]

Tbf the designer does base it off of real life earth animals, fungi etc

[@InvertMSM]

@@MyxteryZ yeah

[@jakeymcsouse2772]

Very true

[@CruelestChris]

The designer seems to have had a real thing for sharks since we have squidshark, prawnshark, ottershark, sharkshark...

[@maksymshkopas8686]

I’m not gonna play any “subnautica” without “welcome a board captain. All systems online”

[@danielleforster9299]

I also have a hard time accepting such a simple storyline. Something I could have seen in any other game - trying to find out what happened to our sister. Versus the first storyline; an unknown planet being quarantined and becoming infected unable to leave all while having no idea about the sea emperor who then visits you early on via telepathy, ultimately helping you save the planet and her children. Very different stories. One incredibly thoughtful and imaginative. Another simple and predictable.

[@iAletho]

They honestly couldn't have felt more different if they tried. Its strange to think that the same developers made both games as it feels like they didn't really know why the original Subnautica succeeded in the first place! Thanks for watching Danielle!

[@fin4771]

@@spritsfal5088 was there any good reason to actually cut the 1st story and go with the 2nd I remember it not being that bad (saying that I don't remember basically anything)

[@fin4771]

reminds me of fallout 3 and 4

[@xXRealXx]

@@fin4771 yea, the beginning of the story in the very early days of early access felt much more intresting (I just watched a gameplay video of the beginning back when BZ's first alpha version released).

[@burndemon100]

@Sprits Fal I'm sorry but I was on theyr forum during the alpha and, unless they hired another writer later, the story was changed during first months of development, I remember the original one and the disappointment when they changed it in that cliché story.

[@theA-ron]

Let's not forget that they started with 1 story and then completely changed it after starting. So some things feel like they were left over from the previous story and just changed slightly but not enough to fit with the new story.

[@xergiok2322]

I think there were some key people who made the original great who left, and the new people in charge of game design and story just didn't know what they were doing.

[@its_saber1525]

Leviathans felt too hostile After the first encounter, they just felt more annoying than scary

[@thomac]

It's because they weren't rare, the waters are just too crowded and the map is smaller. When you have a cryptosuchus every two meters, there is no fear, only frustration. You get used to being attacked quite quickly, and the seatruck also adds a layer of safety. There's only a few places in BZ where encounters feel like the first game, one example is at the bottom of the twisty bridges, that totally felt like a proper subnautica moment, when you face your first big predator.

[@kapperbeastYT]

In the og Subnautica you could avoid the leviathans, that didn't feel like an option in bz, especially the shadow leviathans, which means you learn how much damage they do, and they become an understood threat, instead of a terrifying monster

[@Zaarlo1]

The crystal area has like 10 shadow leviathans, which you can barely avoid with a seatruck, just too many leviathans.

[@popular_anime_hater]

@@thomac yes, the bottom of the twisty bridges is really scary to go place, unlike all others

[@wisemysticaltree2866]

@@Zaarlo1 it actually only has 2 in the purple caves and 2 in the red caves, thats all, that just shows that they are way too agressive

[@WardyLion]

Something you didn't touch on was just how awful the Snowfox was to use, even when you weren't being knocked off it every 2 seconds by a Graboid from Tremors that was struggling to find meaningful work. I eventually gave up with it and just used the PRAWN suit on land. I liked the game overall and the little extras it brought (and that it's draw distance wasn't so short) and I think there's enough between the two to not have them feel too samey. However with Sam dead and Robyn now on the Architect / Precursor homeworld, who is going to take care of Potato?!?

[@iAletho]

Thats because it was so bad... I never actually made it 😂The game overall is a nice DLC type experience, but definitely doesnt go far enough in my opinion for the price charged! Thanks for watching Lion Man!

[@Troublechutor]

I actually just walked on foot (no prawn). The ice worm triggers are based a lot on you being on the hover bike. If you walk, you can hug the edge of the map and avoid most of the triggers that are not based on eating the doggos. Poor game design.

[@c1oudsky]

@@iAletho i never had problems with snowfox and actually liked it lmao

[@Potassiumkloride]

I actually just carried the snowfox around as a portable heater. If I started getting too cold I'd just deploy the snowfox, sit on it to warm up and then pack it away and carry on. I even managed to miss the blueprints for the cold suit entirely and didn't wonder why there wasn't some kind of temperature-related upgrade until I finished the game and realized I never figured out what stalker fur was for.

[@WardyLion]

@@Potassiumkloride Not a bad idea. Incidentally, I wanna know what pillock thought it would be a good idea to have it so only the Spy Pengling could harvest the fur?!?

[@YTaccNotice]

The elevator scene at the end was annoying and didn't make sense because we're able to use every other architect elevator easily in both games

[@WhoEustace]

i actually unironically liked the very first versions of bz, where sam was alive and robin was also working for alterra together with her it took away some of the mystery, sure, but it added a lot onto the story of the first game which i personally liked plus i think the voice actors were different because both sisters and alan had much more personality, hearing robin and alan argue and talk to each other was kinda amusing the original reveal of the ice worm was also terrifying and i was really hyped for it as it took the space that used to be associated with nearly absolute safety - dry land - and turned it into a dangerous trap that you don't even see until you've stepped on it the appearance of marguerit created some interesting and tense dynamic, too, since like i mentioned before in this version robin was working for alterra and thus collaborating with marguerit could potentially lead to her betraying her own sister, whether accidentally or on purpose, and having to deal with the consequences there were also some really cool moments like the planet being suddenly enveloped in a giant architect tech shield and a kharaa outbreak among the staff on the satelite which included sam, and added tension to the story now returning the original "stuck on the alien planet battling the deadly virus on my own" vibe somehow, strangely, rewriting the story to make robin alone on the planet made the story worse for me which is mind-boggling considering this is a survival horror where you're kind of supposed to be alone now it's a watered-down version of the first game that feels like it's a netflix adaptation rather than a continuation with cardboard characters and voice acting, the trashy alien x human romance movie ending and the coolest character from the first game, aka marguerit, being reduced to a random "who tf are you and what are you doing here" plot hole because how did she survive kharaa on her own for over a decade? why didn't she leave? how come she didn't come to check out the aurora wreckage when first game happened? nobody knows and will never know

[@tristen9736]

Man that original plan for the story sounds 10 times cooler

[@ringofdeath13]

YEA OKG TOTALLY I THOGUHT IT WAS A MANDELA EFFECT I swear when Markiplier played bZ The sister would talk to the character and I thought that was good but it still felt a bit scary

[@NiCoNiCoNiCola]

​@EireenDanceWithDeath also the ideas of Robin going from "all alien life matters" to "kill the bastards" because of her being forced into a survival situation was kind of amusing, now ALAN just feels like a smug android AI thing, not an alien from way across the universe

[@INSAne_DrUNkard]

Now I wish some modding team could revive this story and overhaul the current game with it.

[@MySnugglePuppy]

The atmosphere of things starting out basic and safe before shifting back to the feeling of complete isolation would have been great. Robin starts out just looking around the planet with a full backup team including her sister supporting her, but after finding Alan and Marguerite things would get a little more interesting since Robin needs to be secretive about helping both sides. And then the satellite base gets attacked by the virus and now you have to race to actually turn the old alien canon from the first game on to destroy the satellite before other people make contact with it and spread the virus. It would completely turn both the first game’s and this game’s plots on their heads without taking away from the overall story.

[@scaIawag]

There were 6 different leviathans in the first game, 8 if you count the juvenile ghosts and emperors. BZ only has 4, with the void chelicerate only being a scaled up recolor. The Adult Ghosts were scaled up, but the game actually told you why. The reason being that they never stop growing and after hatching in the lost river they needed to find more open waters, which is why you find them in the void feeding on microorganisms.

[@FrenzY2144]

Exactly, Below Zero was just… unfortunately, rushed. It had gone through development hell, which I remember watching it go through at the time, but it LITERATELY is just a reskin of the original game with too much story for its tiny map

[@nodnarbstreams4984]

When you look at from the perspective of being an actual threat/giant creatures there are only two, Dark/Shadow Leviathans and the Void Chelicerate both of which are in very specific places and only one you ever have to actually encounter. Everything else classified as a "Leviathan" in the game is essentially either harmless or not that big and therefore not that frightening/big of a threat.

[@badopinionssquid1735]

Yeah, they mention Squidsharks are TECHNICALLY Leviathans, but are about as small as the Leviathan class allows

[@hellhound74]

To be fair 3 of the 6 leviathans in the first game were passive twords the player with only one of the 3 actually being able to harm the player at all So technically only 3 leviathans that actually bothered trying to kill you and one that could accidentally​@@nodnarbstreams4984

[@marannebbeling9799]

@@badopinionssquid1735 As cliche as it might sound, I don't understand why do wouldn't just go all in with their size. It's an alien world. Imagine how insane it would be to be 1000m deep in a trench, exploring a new environment, only for you to notice that your ship isn't the only thing moving, and that you're actually going past a 300m monstrosity. Why not? Everyone loved them. Especially the ones exceeding 100m. But instead they went shallower, literally and figuratively -- hell, why even be in the water at this point, just make a worm on land. The leviathans you see in this game look almost realistic for earth -- just some large worms that need 10 hits to kill you. If it was to make it more commercially viable -- one thing I know for sure is that everyone on the internet would be talking about the next leviathan if they had just bothered making it live up to its name

[@Andrew11017]

It can just be a chore compared to the first game too. Resources are way harder to find and vehicles are way slower. It’s a frustrating combination

[@nicemarmotmc]

completely agree... that's what I said from the first time playing that it feels super cramped and way less scary... Also they changed the story, in the first version Sam was alive and was helping Robin from up above... like having someone on the inside, covert spy shiz.. sounds more fun to me then trying to answer "why" questions.

[@wutsitewya3149]

One minor thing that took away from the experience for me was that a majority of new flora couldn't be replanted, or the PDA entries for them felt unfinished. The disappointment I felt when I saw those pretty plants on the surface, only to find out I couldn't replant them in my base... I liked to make little alien containment set pieces with the flora and fauna from certain biomes in subnautica, so I really hope one day someone makes a mod that lets you replant the unique plants that are in BZ.

[@danielthecake8617]

And they're assigned stupidly. Like... The eye jellyfish is an herbivore that catches prey...

[@lucky6961]

my dude, I play it on portuguese and half of it wasn't even translated, or it was poorly coded in a way it shows the english version either way, that was a huge turn off after the masterpiece that was the classic

[@ellemueller]

I did the same thing in the first game and was so disappointed I couldn't slash bits off the plants and make at least one planter box per area, inside and just outside my base.

[@mikadosannoji553]

​@@ellemuellerso THATS why my bz base felt like it was missing something

[@GrouchyRaccoon]

I think you've hit the nail on the head by saying if this was the first game it would be showered with praise. The first Subnautica game is just an absolute masterpiece, following that and expanding on the world was always going to be a monolithic task. Below Zero does have its share of flaws, but if you take it by itself without comparing it to the original then it's still an amazing experience.

[@Benjip892]

I’m gonna pick a bit at the cure portion of this as I think I know what happened. In the video, you explain how Sam just kinda “makes” the cure completely on her own, which is true. However, in an earlier build of the game, there were baby sea emperors roaming around the Lilly pad biome, and I believe that there was a story line to create a cure from the enzyme 42 that they gave off. However, as they shifted from this implementation I think the devs forgot to change the way the cure was made. If they had kept the emperors around it would’ve made sense. I guess that’s just another mistake to add to the list sadly enough

[@Self-replicating_whatnot]

The whole development of Below Zero seems to have been botched.

[@Dr.Oofers]

@@Self-replicating_whatnot Well apparently the original writer was fired/left, and it’s possible other members of the original team were fired/left as well (as was the case of the original sound designer).

[@warduxe]

@@Dr.Oofers i miss simon chylinski's work

[@datoneanimations1715]

I enjoyed below zero, but I hope that a theoretical third game is closer to the original. I believe they will add some of the features that fans enjoyed from the second game, but have a core more similar to the first game Edit: below zero needed a prop station for posters, decorations, and what not

[@iAletho]

Yeah I think a blend of the two games best features could work well. Keep the first games story telling style but enhance on the great feature improvements made in Below Zero! Thanks for watching :)

[@arvypolanco]

My hope is that someday they release an update or dlc that merges both games into one in the BZ engine, from the maps to the vehicles to the creatures and let you play in a giant sandbox, maybe have you cross the dead zone to reach the BZ region. One can dream lol

[@ARCHIVED9610]

i want the third game to be like the first, tbh. no other game has ever come close to the amount of fear i felt playing through the missions. thalassophobia 🎉

[@DeadFieldofFlowers]

The thing that absolutely captivated me in Subnautica is how it made you feel small and completely helpless against everything even when roaming the sea with a fully upgraded cyclops the sense of fear still troubles you and thats where below zero failed miserably to achieve

[@beepbop6542]

One of the worst parts was that they KEPT switching the story, entirely redoing it every 3 months and completely changing the story.

[@FrenzY2144]

I remember that, the game went through development hell, which isn’t the actual games fault. But, it doesn’t dismiss the terrible things that Below Zero contains

[@jeanbutinfrench]

oddly Below Zero seemed to “betray” everything that defined subnautica… the silent everyman protagonist is instantly relatable, the quintessential feeling of loneliness and will to survive makes the story deeply personal (similar to half life and portal), the mystery of the extinct aliens and their gone civilization, the thrill of discovery and horror of the unknown… Subnautica below zero has a constantly talking protagonist, another human that is better than you, an alien on your head, and you see the alien species body which completely shatters the wonder of what they were, there were some cool new mechanics, but this game was surprisingly undercooked… At the end of Subnautica I legit teared up when the ship said “coordinates, [nearest interestelar phasegate]” and I said to myself “coordinates, home” with a smile… at the end of below zero, I was kinda dumbfounded because I thought we were gonna go to the alien cities and at least the game would have something original and inventive, I thought the game until then was a prologue, then the credits rolled and I was like “what?!”

[@alfalldoot6715]

​@@tealishpotato You use emojis to be smug

[@alfalldoot6715]

Like you know what defines a game. Because overweoght no life gamers are the greatest geniuses ever.

[@itswindle1580]

Pretty much hit the nail on the head there.

[@Goober_goobie]

​@@alfalldoot6715bro got a lil angry 💀💀

[@DragonxFlutter]

I remember seeing early versions of this game’s story. The devs obviously _wanted_ to keep the stakes high in those early versions. Instead of being smuggled onto 4546b, Robin and Sam were both Alterra employees who were tasked with studying Sector Zero. Robin was on the ground, and Sam was in orbit in constant contact…for the first few in-game days. At some point, something would go wrong and cut Robin off from the orbital station (her “Aurora Explosion” moment), and the game becomes a case of legitimate survival as Robin struggles to keep the base online until help can arrive. In the drafts that introduced Alan, there was one notable sequence where the Frozen Leviathan would seemingly break free of the ice and chase you, only for it to be a hallucination induced by the merger of Alan’s memories with Robin’s (her “Infection Moment”). But for whatever reason, the development team said they “couldn’t figure out where to take the story”, scrapped everything, and rushed out what we eventually got. I feel like, had they stuck with the direction of those original drafts, the story would have been better received. Yes, it would have mirrored Ryley’s journey quite a bit, but for what was supposed to be DLC, I think that’s fine.

[@indartawira]

The seatruck part is spot on. I'm always frustrated on how the sea truck is too slow and too hard to maneuver, even I think cyclops from subnautica is way easier to navigate through small caves or opening, while being spacious enough to build an entire mobile base with plants, aquarium, fabricators, beds, and carrying the prawn suit or seamoth. The caves in below zero is confusing and I always feel nauseous if I explore the caves too long.

[@jakeforgey5378]

Ironically the Sea Truck was supposed to have 2 other trailer-pieces. a garden unit that was supposed to have a 4 full grown plant placement plot two hanging pots and a single pot off to the side. And a charging/generator unit that had a biofuel generator, a pair of battery and power cell chargers, alongside a thermal section that allowed you to place it over a thermal vent and boom instant free power. I heard there was also supposed to be an aquarium unit, unlike the one we had that could breed them but no bring ones in from outside, but all three got scrapped because we the players "apparently had too much for vehicles anyway"...

[@PenguinPalz]

To me the game felt so surreal when i first played it and felt more like a mod, but then i realized that the deepest depth for the seatruck was 900 meters, i realized how truly small it was, it feels more like a DLC, i think that this is evident by the fact that the game released only 3 years after the original

[@teimo4117]

It was originally supposed to be a DLC, but then was made into its own game

[@penguinista]

Everything. They turned an open world game into a tunnel game and destroyed the fun of resource gathering and building.

[@jackee-is-silent2938]

I think some of the shortcomings of SBZ were because of the mess that happened during its Early Access. All I heard was that the original story writer either quit or was sacked for some reason. And the original version of the story was dropped and then reintroduced in a changed way, along with I think some changes to the map. I suspect this had a big effect on the final story being a bit wonky and not as good as the original game's.

[@GeneralTaco155555a]

True, but the original story was even worse. I played the first EA versions of the game, and the story they were setting up made 0 sense, had a lot more characters, the protagonist was extremely unlikable, and the stakes felt non-existent from the dialogue. Their main issue was not having a decent plan from the beginning. It was like they put a ton of money into the first draft (including a LOT of voice acting), and then realized it was shit halfway through production, and chopped up what they had into a plot that still made sense (barely). I made a review very early on pointing out the story was awful, and how it was a really bad sign that they had already paid for a ton of voice acting for a shit storyline, and everyone was like "It's early access, you can't judge it" I still don't know how it has a "Very Positive" rating on Steam

[@Dr.Oofers]

@@GeneralTaco155555a To be fair, they had time to rewrite it since it was early access and the original took 5 years to finally complete, but with the original writer (who I think worked on the first one) gone, the new one (if there was another) had to cobble together the story before the deadline hit. Sucks there was no real delay to properly rewrite the story.

[@GeneralTaco155555a]

@@Dr.Oofers I have 0 sympathy. They created all of their own problems. There wouldn't have been a deadline issue if they actually had a good plan for the game that didn't have to be scrapped halfway through. First off, BZ is just a reskin of the first game. Let's not pretend BZ is its own game that deserved the same amount of dev time. 5 years of development for the first game which was a massive hit, and the story was an afterthought that still ended up being pretty great. Fast forward to BZ where they put all of their focus into a shit story that they eventually realized was shit, abandoned it halfway through, and put little to no effort into doing anything new with the game itself. It's not difficult to see where they went wrong here. Secondly, maybe they should have had the story and everything planned out BEFORE they released it as EA then? They shouldn't have had a ton of lines recorded for a half baked story that apparently only 1 person knew about, since they fumbled it so bad after they left. If the whole point of BZ was to implement a story into subnautica, maybe making sure they had a decent story should have been their first step. 🤷‍♂️ You can make excuses all you want, but every single thing is the dev's own faults for lack of planning and vision for the project.

[@CruelestChris]

@@GeneralTaco155555a Also they ignored all the feedback from EA. Everyone told them the bike was shit, but they bullheadedly insisted on keeping it in. They never fixed the stupid feature (I mean I guess it's a feature?) that the Ice Worm would eject you from the bike even if it surfaced nowhere near you. People said the voice on the PDA was hard to understand, especially for ESL speakers, and they just called those people racist because a synthetic voice's accent is a race, I guess. People said the Seatruck was clunky and unrewarding, they did nothing. People said the Prawn totally trivialised the surface sections, they did nothing. But they added a selfie cam and emotes to the stupid penguin!

[@GeneralTaco155555a]

@@CruelestChris yeah, the devs suck. It's like reddit mods made a game studio. They were too busy trying to get internet points from no-lifes that followed their blog posts, rather than actually make a good game. And since that kind of people are the type to almost never actually play a game, and just watch jacksepticeye and markiplier as like 30 year olds, they eat that shit up, and boosted this mediocre game into positive ratings on steam. What a joke. Pretty sure in this comments section there is one of these types of people calling everyone an incel who thinks the protagonist is/was annoying. 🙄

[@serpentinious7745]

For me, it was the overabundance of difficult to navigate caves and a lack of scenic locations for base building. None of the environments actually felt different, and not once did I reach a new area and get that "OMG, I have got to build here" feeling from the 1st game.

[@jakeforgey5378]

Part of why BZ felt less like something to explore and do, and more like a job I hate, is partly the first game immersed you immensely, the second game constantly broke you immersion with a 9 year old's "nah-uh I beeter than you because human." " No you stupid because organic." type of stupidity. The first tied exploration into surviving because you'd find resources and think "Oh build a base" while in BZ you can just build in th twisty spires and sea-truck with a single storage compartment and boom never need a second base. BZ also had no story cohesion or meat of the story that wasn't contradicted ten seconds later, and the few bits it did have were utterly nonsensical and felt extremely forced. honestly if they had done BZ as a first game then went to release the original Subnautica, it would have been a lot more well received, and Subnautica 2 would be found to be more well hoped for by fans... but since from what I've heard they are going more like BZ that Subnaticua, well I hope they don't lean to heavily on BZ or else it might be a flop

[@BeepBopBoop303]

I'm still trying to figure out how the frozen leviathan's circulatory system moved the injected cure around it's completely frozen body. God that game was stupid

[@thisguyisnotable]

💀

[@vudjubuh]

devs: we don't want to add multiplayer because we want you to feel alone also the devs: makes it so you're never actually alone in the sequel

[@Yhorm]

yeah they didnt add MP cuz they couldnt be bothered

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

@@Yhorm that's a fact. I hate listening to their lies in the interviews. They really think we're all idiots.

[@FreedomPuppy]

@@gregoryl.levitre9759I mean, have you seen Subnautica’s fanbase? That statement is true for like, half of them.

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

@@FreedomPuppy that's not what I've seen. Quite the opposite. This fanbase knows when the Devs take shortcuts and drop the ball in writing overall.

[@QuesoCookies]

The thing is that the life pods are set up to accommodate multiple passengers, of course, so what's actually unusual isn't so much that Riley survived but that the reason Riley was the only survivor is because he was the only one in his life pod, for some reason. It'd be way more believable that the other passengers of the pod were sucked out when the pod was damaged during descent and the number of them that weren't lost corresponded to the number of human players in the game, up to four. So the scenario is tailor made for multiplayer. That said, I'm glad they didn't include multiplayer, because it would have completely robbed all the other players of the feeling of awe and discovery if they weren't the first to discover new biomes or plot points, and the loneliness and mounting dread that you are truly the only survivor as you came across recently destroyed life pods with no survivors everywhere is fantastic and would have been completely absent if you were on the planet with friends. I think a multiplayer Subnautica game would be a lot of fun, but it would be an entirely different experience and needs to be carefully designed around that, not just have multiplayer tacked on just because the audience wants it.

[@ReZno_O]

what i really missed in below zero was a biome that was truly dark so you get the deep sea feeling. To be fair there were like one or two small spots where it is a bit dark but most of the biomes just have a lot of bioluminescent things making it lit even during night

[@SachiSaby]

Just imagine if below zero was actually a dlc. You would either get blueprints on a vehicle that'd take you to sector zero by air or find a teleporter to sector zero. Also just Alan meeting the protagonist who cured the Kharaa would be much more interesting that whatever they had going on in below zero. They could have made protagonist leaving with Alan to escape a second ending (to escape Alterra's crushing debt lol). Just imagining it is so fun but sadly we'll never get it.

[@hyperdimensionbliss]

I want to know how any flora or fauna from the original volcanic crater could possibly be in Below Zero when there's a giant dead zone inhabited by nothing but plankton and ghost leviathans between the two.

[@unmeiidesu]

I guess it’s possible. Most creatures are only relatives but you’re totally right. They are still way to similar considering that these are two entirely different ecosystems.

[@temxasred3086]

@@unmeiidesu maybe a ghost leviathan shat some biomass from one ecosystem into the other and that somehow made some flora/fauna appear in the other ecosystem

[@magnusquercu9905]

@@temxasred3086 That’s a shit theory that makes sense! 👍

[@pikariocraftf2802]

​@@temxasred3086 - Are you suggesting creepvines migrate?

[@hntrsvg]

I know you posted this a while back but IRL flora can actually migrate via birds and we know that in universe there are bird-ish animals. The fauna could have migrated to or from the volcanic crater before the ecological deadzone appeared. Hell the precursors could have just been fucking around with the ecosystem in these places lol.

[@deathbunny218]

I didn't mind that the Leviathan's weren't huge in below zero. I kinda feel that at a certain point the bigger the creatures get the less scary they are. My problem with them was that they paled in comparison to squidsharks. Squidsharks: Aggressive Cool to look at Disables electronics Small enough to give chase through caves Often found in in pairs to distract and ambush Honestly, squidsharks have haunted several of my nightmares and the Chelicerate ain't appeared in one

[@Troublechutor]

Bigger is still scarier. The main problem is that they gave us a prawn suit again and the sea truck is far too tough for what it does. If the sea truck took more damage, and started to sink or break apart under attack, it would have at least added some urgency to a monster attack. But as long as you have a prawn, you are basically unkillable, and that makes any monster basically a play thing rather than a threat.

[@deathbunny218]

@@Troublechutor yeah I can agree that the vehicles weren't super balanced. The only time a Chelicerate grabbed me by surprise I just used the electric field and zapped it away before driving on. And I remember one point I was double teamed by 2 shadow leviathans in my prawn suit, their damage and attack speed was just small enough that I could repair and retreat a little until I could cram myself in the corner. It took forever like, but was doable. IMO the Leviathan's needed a rare, special attack to switch up their gameplay and surprise you. Squidsharks EMP pulse stopped me in my tracks so many times (and was terrifying with the prawn suit mid air). I just now realise what an amazing creature the Warpers were for adding terror around Leviathan's.

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

Funny thing is that the squidshark was planned to be a leviathan in concept and the chelicerate was once small It is probably clear then via the effect the latter have that this was probably not the best decision

[@marcosdheleno]

@@Troublechutor the prawn suit is awersome, not having it in the game would be a massive problem for me, as it was the only fun thing to use in b0. the sea truck was great in concept but terrible in execution. and come on, subnautica isnt scary. it may be on a very first play, and you see those giant monsters, but after your first death, they are more annoying than anything. oh no, i got grabbed by this spider face for the 4th time, gotta leave to repair my seamoth again while it keep pestering me... you dont die from those mobs in subsequent plays, and if you do, you wont be scared, you will be pissed. its also why games like amnesia and other "horror games" complete fail once you die a few times.

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

They also sound much lamer. I feel like most creatures in the game sound like they growl which gets boring. Subnautica og had so many unique creatures with unique sounds.

[@Silver09393]

To be fair i think the over abundance of land was ment to be a big part of the game. An artic like expiriance ment to stimulate the artic explorer's perspective. The artic is also small compared to oceans in the real world. Now, this doesn't mean they couldn't of made better choices, the game is still very rough compared to subnotica, but some features are ment to stimulate the real world just very poorly

[@WardyLion]

Below Zero also kinda made the great effort to cure Kharaa feel like somewhat of an unnecessary faff as the antidote in BZ can be made with just two, fairly common ingredients.

[@iAletho]

Yep, absolutely crazy!

[@marcosdheleno]

all they had to do was say she developed a cure from the blood sample of the mc of the first game. but what i dont get is why would they send people there if there was no cure in the first place. they could also say that they had a cure, but the sample they found was an older more virulent and resistant variant, and she managed to create a cure for that one using the first cure as a basis. similarly, i think it would've been better that instead of trying to find out what happened to her, we were trying to find proof that she was inocent instead, as she was arrested for a terrorist attack on that base.

[@WardyLion]

@@marcosdheleno Alterra are not known for putting their employee's safety above their profits or even potential profits.

[@marcosdheleno]

@@WardyLion its adiferent story when we are telling about a literal cataclismic disease that wiped out multiple civilizations. im not saying they wouldnt do it, just that they would allow those people to come and go from the planet as if it was the most normal thing. they would probably lock them in the planet.

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

​@@WardyLion you say that like we have many many documented instances but mostly it's just Sam saying it

[@NightShade-1735]

The feeling of being alone on a foreign world is what made Subnautica special. In Below zero they took this away by adding Alan and Marguerite and giving Robin a voice. And the map felt random and narrow, especially going through caves. Subnautica 3 will be in UE5 (Unreal Engine 5) and they should be able to make huge maps and great graphics with that.

[@googleyoflolz9930]

Weird that the fanfic authors came up with a more interesting concept for this game than the actual writer. Though, "actual writer" isn't exactly true since they replaced the original writer.

[@pedroferreira8033]

About Sam's cure my theory is that since the first game's cure(Enzyme 42) was released into the planet, making a concentrated version using natural resouces is easier. The problem the Architects had was getting Enzyme 42.

[@LineOfThy]

well it would be great if they actually said that

[@CruelestChris]

@pedroferreira8033 No, I think the idea is that it's not a cure, it's something that can destroy the bacteria in an organism that's already dead, so it doesn't need to be anything particularly precise. Though in that case it would have made more sense if Maida had showed her how to make thermite to burn it away or something. And they shouldn't have referred to it as a cure.

[@earflapphat]

You definitely make some great points here. Subsautica BZ also just doesn’t give off the same charm of the first game, and the leviathans sometimes feel more annoying than scary. Another thing is that you also get the prawn jet jump upgrade and the seatruck shock upgrade just by finding them. I liked having to go out and get the resources to make those in the first game, but these you just find laying around. I do think the game is better without a cyclops though, the world feels way to small for one to be necessary in the first place. I think for this game, the seatruck fills the role of a submarine pretty well. This game was still quite fun for me, but I enjoy the first game quite a bit more. Great video :)

[@iAletho]

Thanks EarFlapp Hat! I personally am not a fan of the Seatruck but totally understand why the Cyclops needed to go. I think BZ could have stood up quite well on its own if it had a stronger narrative to drive the plot forward, unfortunately it doesnt have that. It's definitely not a bad game, just a bid disappoint when compared to the original. Thanks again for watching! :)

[@coopermcdonald5043]

Oddly enough when I first played through Below Zero, I was so focused on putting together AL-AN that I missed out on the whole plot point with Sam. Now granted I did start the game like a year ago, completely forgetting everything about it until I picked it up last month from where I left off and beating it. But one of the main things that kept me going was the jukebox of all things. The second song in the jukebox starts off with audio of what sounds exactly like AL-AN saying “and now I have to kill you” which made me lose my mind and start the quest to find all of AL-AN, thinking he was going to be some secret final boss we had to fight once we built him a body. And while that might have have been EXACTLY what the audio that sounded like him in the song said, my internal thought was “AL-AN is using us to build him a body, and once he has that body he’s going to kill us and we have to stop him” which also helped me not think too hard that AL-AN not wanting to cure the Kharaa feel more like a subtle writing detail that something was off with his true intentions and that we as the player weren’t seeing them unless we picked up context clues. I will say I did feel like I was missing something big that I skipped after I did beat the game, which is why I am here now.

[@Evil_Hypnotist]

To add to the points made in the video, one thing that bugged me was how easy it was to unlock technologies. In the original you had to search high and low for wrecks that may have something you hadn’t scanned yet. In Below Zero you scan something you unlock all its affiliated technologies, exploration is not rewarded in this game like the first.

[@Ben_Kimber]

Honestly, the player character having dialogue broke my immersion. Being talked to and having a name broke my immersion as well. It’s a lot easier for me to be immersed when I can pretend that it’s me on that alien planet. This was possible in Subnautica, but not Below Zero. I also preferred the PDA voice from the first game. The creatures are interesting, and that’s one good thing I think I’ll say about it (except that the chelicerate leviathan possesses almost none of the traits found in real chelicerates). While the Sea Truck is an interesting idea, I would have taken one big submarine and a Seamoth over it any day. Progression is kind of all over the place. Took a break from the game for a few months, came back and had no idea where to go next. There are a few problems I have with it. Subnautica had that mystery element to it, and elements that inspired terror in the player. Below Zero did not have that.

[@gregoryl.levitre9759]

I agree, except for the Sea Truck part. I don't like the Cyclops even in the first game because there just isn't much room for it in the game world and the sequel is even worse.

[@spimkle]

⁠@@gregoryl.levitre9759That's the point of the Cyclops. You're not meant to drive it everywhere like the seamoth, it's meant to work as a vehicle transporter and a mini base. Specifically for the prawn, as it would be much harder getting your prawn in and out of the dead river without the Cyclops. It was annoying how slow it was, but it made sense for the purpose. (Sorry if this doesn't make sense, I'm not good with grammar.)

[@gotem370]

Awww your poor little butthurt immersion, Jesus Christ man, gamers are such twats these days, with their $10k gaming setups and entitled snobbery

[@aircraftcarrierwo-class]

Robyn having so little personality is how AL-AN was able to fit in her brain, you see. Plenty of unused storage space.

[@lb4965]

For me it was mainly the flashy colours. In BZ a lot of biomes had very vibrant and flashy colours wich kind of took away from the scariness for me. I just couldn’t be scared of a shadow leviathan with a bright blue stomach mouth in a bright pink biome. I absolutely loved how the biomes looked but they just lacked the uneasy feeling you had going through for ex. the dunes in subnautica Even when going through the grand reef in subnautica with it’s brighter blue plants you still felt uneasy because everything else around it was still dark and the plants are like small beacons of light giving a false sense of security

[@MagicGonads]

in real life the flashier a creature the more dangerous it is (usually a marker of poison or venom or a lure) also deep sea creatures need bioluminescence to navigate

[@UnashamedlyHentai]

@@MagicGonads it is generally prey species that colorize brightly. as a predator, drawing attention to you is bad unless your hunting strategy is trapping. A lot of deep sea creatures bioluminesce but it's still a minority, and it's not actually that bright to our eyes. it doesn't need to be in the utter darkness that is the deep sea.

[@unlogicalexplanation]

My issue with the game was the nessicity of the surface parts, as you are required to run around without the suit for a very long time trying to either find snow stalker fur or just kill one but even then when you kill them you need a spy pengling to harvest to fur and take it pack to your base, fabricate a suit and go back on land just for you to finish that section and never need to go there again

[@night_hunter4752]

I never even needed the insulated suit, with the snowfox heater, kept me plenty warm with the short few blizzard hazards.

[@eneco3965]

Am I the only one who just used the prawn and nothing else?

[@Akotski-ys9rr]

The suit it pointless. I beat the entire game just using the prawn suit the entire time

[@unlogicalexplanation]

I did too once I gave up on the suit

[@CruelestChris]

@@Akotski-ys9rr Yeah, it's just manufacturing a reason to use the stupid penguin for something.

[@titan_redeemer7371]

Unknown Worlds should honestly have stuck with the DLC plan they had, the final product of Below Zero really does just feel like a DLC

[@troopersicks5824]

i think my biggest issue with Below Zero was that i felt robbed of any meaningful discoveries. I went into the first game completely blind and it made for a very memorable experience, i had no idea there were leviathans waiting for me and the games setting and the way it handled giving you the story felt much more like i was making important discoveries to move the plot along. In Below Zero, i played on playstation and the loading screen had the shadow leviathan so i was instantly robbed of finding the games end game leviathan before i'd even started, then when you do start you find AL AN pretty quickly who for the rest of the game proceeds to tell you anytime theres something interesting nearby as soon as you go anywhere vaguely near it amd for some of them throw waymarks at you. The first game kind of does this with lifepod messages and the pda occasionally giving information but it felt much more subtle about it and never felt l ike it was saying "go here to advance the plot".

[@azertyytreza1323]

It's very true, I don't think the first Subnautica was telling us things in advance as much. Like, when we cross the bridge, we are told that there is giant things moving under the ice. And I saw the dead ice worm before seeing the living ones. I already expected to see them. Same for the shadow leviathan. It kills the solitary exploration we have in the first game, and it kills realism. I remember the feeling of shock I had when I was exploring the lava zone for the first time and I saw a dragon. I just didn't expect anything. And it's the case for most things in the first game, there is a true sense of wonder, unknown and terror.

[@HeliosDrive]

​@@azertyytreza1323Quite so. The only implication that you get of the Sea Dragons' presence by scanning the Dragon or Reaper fossils. And even then, the age of the former & the ambiguity behind the latter's death don't make that presence obvious.

[@brombresdev]

I never had any *enraging* experiences with Subnautica, but I had two with SBZ: 1. I can't stand the Sea Monkeys thieving my inventory items. It's not cute, it's not funny, it's not an enjoyable mechanic, it's just a pain in the ass. One time I drowned because they stole my Seaglide out of my hands, ffs. I rage-quit for a few days. 2. The Arctic Spires area sucks ***. HUGE area, hard to navigate with obscure tunnels and everything looking the same, constant snowstorms blinding me, ice worm attacking me all the time. After finding myself going in circles I looked up a map online to where I needed to go. And I STILL couldn't get there! That was just a wall of frustration and I quit playing after that. I'm currently playing through the original Subnautica again and loving it. I'm glad they ported some of the features from SBZ back into it. I'll prolly give SBZ another go one of these days.

[@zhalosc]

yeah the ice worm becomes more annoying than scary tbh

[@ChurroPole]

In my first play through, I somehow missed the giant leviathan in the ice. And it was through this video I found out you could cure it. I just went with Alan and played that storyline. While I was impressed by the crystal caves as a location and its shadow leviathan inhabitants, they quickly became an annoying obstacle more than a scary creature halting my progress.

[@NovaNyx_czs]

Pretty much my exact experience, I was also just completely oblivious of the Sam storyline. But I never bothered to go back because the whole experience just became draining near the end.

[@hackcubit9663]

I think the biggest point against BZ compared to the first game: I actually want to replay the first. Its sheer size helps with that aspect of the game. Additionally as mentioned in this video, in the first game you felt this rush of accomplishment making the cyclops. But the sea truck can't give you that same feeling.

[@mamie8734]

I truly think if they’d kept the original opening and voice actors from the early access version, this game would be so much more palatable :| Robin was all bubbly and full of personality and spunk, with a voice that perfectly matched, and her dynamic with her much more responsible older sister was really cute. So were her interactions with the companion guy we get in the game. I also just loved the opening as a whole- starting on the base on land already in contact with your sister, just so see it all get destroyed in a storm that forces you underwater. I liked that we got to know Sam before the whole goal of the game becomes finding her again, and it was a nice change of pace from the first game in my opinion. But most of all I just miss early access Robin 😭 she was perfect

[@natebit8130]

The story was shaping up to be something exciting before they cut out quite a bit when the writer was changed. There was even going to be an event where you'll need to find a sea emperor for more of the enzyme as the supply on the station went bad, and when you put it into the rocket to send it to the station, there's a shield that goes up over the atmosphere to destroy it. Another event that would've happened was that the ending would've had an event with alterra interfering with your escape. There was a lot more but I don't remember it.

[@TheTwilitHero]

I was so pissed when the sea emperor was taken out. I hated the old voice actor for Robin, but the new story feels so soulless.

[@highlightermarca-texto3281]

Ah I was looking for this comment. I remember following the development of the game 2ish years ago and being so pissed when I found out they were taking the baby Sea Emperors out of the game.

[@natebit8130]

@@highlightermarca-texto3281 I was as well. The current version seems to be a soulless copy without most of what made the original story exciting.

[@c1oudsky]

I was actually expecting confrontation with Alterra in the end when playing

[@bipstymcbipste5641]

​@@TheTwilitHero what's wrong with my happi girl? Tell you what, she's a much better voice actor than current one

[@nihalzeor8085]

While I did enjoy Below Zero, I have a few things to say about it. It's not a bad game, but as you said, it lives in the shadow of it's predecessor. It's smaller, and I can live with it, but it never ever feels "deep". One of the scariest things and best things for me in the original Subnautica was finding a cliff while I was at like 200 meters below surface, just to see a huge drop where I couldn't even see the bottom. That feeling of not knowing what might lurk below is totally absent in BZ, and even if you still go kinda deep, I was never really scared of it not even in normal Subnautica. A cliff and emptiness for me was much scarier at 200 meters deep than a cave at 1000 meters. Also, the leviathans (and all aggressive creature really) in Below Zero are way too aggressive, costantly attacking you, and that transform them to be a scary encounter to an annoying encounter, because you KNOW they will attack as much as possible, while in Subnautica you could hear them in the distance, see them swim by, and maybe gets attacked just once or twice. Also, with the fact that the Seatruck is so much more resilient than the Seamoth, and the fact that you can get the lightning upgrade to "zap" off the attackers, I never had any fear of those leviathans, because dying wasn't even an option. I didn't like they removed the Stasis Rifle, and while that was extremely strong in Subnautica, it was the only way to safely scan the Leviathans, to get a scan of the shadow Levi from BZ I had to waste an insane amount of time :( Also, as you said, the voiced protagonist removes a lot from the experience for me. AAAAND the changed voice from the PDA! There are a couple of things I liked though, like, unpopoular opinion, the ending, and the base building was much expanded, and I loved it, the large rooms with the alien containment bay are just great, the possibility to create a very cool bedroom, a toilet with a shower, all small details that really added up for me.

[@iAletho]

I think we feel the same way Nihal, BZ definitely has its positives, and if you simply want more Subnautica not then BZ gives you that. Unfortunately its a much smaller version and less thought out version that the original. A smaller game is not necessary a bad thing if told in an interesting way, e.g. Firewatch, but it feels like the developers didn't actually know why the first game succeeded. I also agree about he PDA voice change, I was looking forward to hearing it when I first jumped into BZ and was surprised that they had changed it! The base building additions were nice, I just wish there was a bit more too it (although the Seatruck dock definitely helped, it was added after I had finished my playthrough). Thanks for watching Nihal and for the well thought out comment, I've got plenty more Subnautica videos so be sure to check those out if you're a fan of the series! Stay awesome :)

[@nihalzeor8085]

@@iAletho already subscribed and I checked out more vids, I hope your channel will get big, because your vids are extremely good!

[@iAletho]

@@nihalzeor8085 Thanks Nihal! As long as you enjoy watching them then I will be happy, the mission is now on to 1K! :D

[@TheClaw47]

I will agree with hearing the unknown leviathans over seeing them. Once I figured out how they worked, they lost a lot of the fear factor...so Below Zero's purely aggressive leviathans works so I just can't cheese the AI as much, they lose the mystery associated with it because they're always visible. (For whatever reason, I find the basic...groans of the of the Reefbacks to be kind of terrifying, but's that's purely because the big, deep noise is something I consider largely unknown...I don't stare at reefbacks often whereas Ghost Leviathans and Reapers I stare at a lot until they go away).

[@kyuboxincubox7556]

Below Zero feels like the devs saw how youtubers played the game, saw that a significant part of their audience is kids and decided to dumb the game down and make it more kid-friendly. More jokes, less threats, more safety, smaller but more colourful areas, and so on.

[@jakeforgey5378]

thats what they did... and in the process they pretty much chopped off any challenge and made the game feel... well like a game rather than something to get immersed in like the first one did...

[@McSkellyHo]

I would share my thoughts on what you covered in the video, but I pretty much entirely agree with you on this. You explained it very well. Also Sam being able to cure the bacterium that this super advanced alien race wasn’t able to due to the circumstances with the giant leviathan life form that would provide the cure because she “knows her biochem well enough to at least do that” is still such a “what the hell even” moment to me.

[@ashesfromtheheavens3716]

considering that alterra did end up developing a cute years after the events of the first game I don‘t think thats that big of a stretch

[@McSkellyHo]

@@ashesfromtheheavens3716 The stretch comes from the fact that the precursors couldn’t figure that out. The only way I could see this working in BZ is if Sam got her hands on a good sample of enzyme 42 from a sea emperor, which aren’t in sector zero.

[@ashesfromtheheavens3716]

@@McSkellyHo in the 10-12 years between subnautica and BZ its almost definitive that alterra got their hands on enzyme 42 and re-created it (and then released it planetwide), at that point sam just needs to make the antidote that alterra already developed.

[@CruelestChris]

@ashesfromtheheavens3716 But she doesn't, she makes a totally new one out of two random local plants.

[@greypug7769]

⁠@@ashesfromtheheavens3716below zero is only 2 years after subnautica…

[@SamanthaLaurier]

My issues with Below Zero are mainly the voices changing and the story change. I liked the original story from the early access more than what currently exists. The environment changes just weren't as big an issue for me, though the smaller world made it way harder to build the kind of massive base I like

[@GiDaOne]

I played Below Zero first a few years ago, and am currently (and finally) playing Subnautica. I enjoyed BZ and thought that the base building was fun and also that some of the biomes were really pretty. Also didn't care that much about the land areas, the story was OK but not great. I didn't mind the speaking character but I can understand why people who played Subn first didn't want this. Now when playing Subnautica on survival I'm definitely struck by the scale and depth (literally) of it. Already like 20 hours in and I feel like I'm not even halfway, and it's going to be a difficult road ahead. I just managed to build a second base in the Northern Blood Kelp at around 400m, close to the entry of the Lost River, and have the cyclops (love it) and prawn suit. That felt like an achievement to me. But there are very few areas where I feel safe, it feels like a challenge and a struggle, and apart from the early game radio calls, the story doesn't reveal itself to you easily. The planet definitely feels hostile and alien. I love it :)

[@FTLnovaKid]

Agreed the game felt so small, when in subnautica you felt like an ant. I think the reason for this is that BZ was supposed to be a DLC but ended up becoming its own game. Which was not for the best. It was like the Star Wars sequels using the prequels story and almost ruining it or disregarding it.

[@iAletho]

Totally agree, the sizing felt way off in BZ compared to the original, maybe if so much of the story hadn't been cut things would have turned out differently? Thanks for watching FTLnovaKid!

[@theerinmiranda]

For me, the issue with BZ was that there were just too many grabby and bitey creatures. In my first Subnautica playthrough I didn't get attacked by the reaper even once because I was shitting myself everytime I saw it so avoided it like the plague. Not knowing how much damage it would do and seeing it's shadow in the distance before zooming back to my base telling myself 'don't look back don't look back don't look back' was a key experience of the game for me. In BZ, it was inevitable and unavoidable that you get grabbed by the Chelicerate and the Shadow Leviathan, and it just became annoying, not scary, because like you said, you know it won't kill you and you're just going to have to get out and repair your vehicle. I actually really liked the Ice Worm because I had no idea where it was until it was about to attack me and I knew I just had to Keep. Running.

[@etherraichu]

11:51 okay but I think we all can agree, this intro was pretty cool. They nailed that almost seamless transition.

[@highlightermarca-texto3281]

If I remember correctly the evil corporation story was a change partway through development. Originally the game was going to focus more on the aftermath of releasing the baby Sea Emperors in the last game (in some early versions you could encounter them and play with them). I will never understand why they removed the ability to play with the baby Sea Emperors.

[@Armyman-sy7mt]

In one of the changes where they removed the sea emperors, i came back to my base being 75% under ground once 😂

[@kyltredragmire4939]

That's why I never found them!? I searched hours for those babies!