What the Mormon Church Can Learn From Cults Pt. 2 w/ Steven Hassan - Ep. 939

[@andreadiamond7115]

Love the personal takes on the aspects of the bite model. I think dif panel members each time is a great idea John. Thank you to all.

[@melissamybubbles6139]

Regulating physical reality: expecting temple pictures and other Mormon images to be a central theme of Mormon home decor.

[@crikey47]

On the subject of the church and sleep deprivation. Pressured to have large families, never turn down a calling, be a good homemaker, make sure your kids get everything they need. Had I had never been a member of the church I would have had a much less stressful life. As for sleep, I can remember working until late on seminary curriculum then getting up early and picking kids up the next morning. Being a Mormon was exhausting.

[@Krr-y6t]

I had early morning seminary that started 3 hours before my high school. I definitely related to sleep deprivation then

[@christie8493]

Same. I went to mutual and firesides during the evenings, homework till midnight, then up at 4am to go to the church building for seminary before school.

[@truefuschniken]

I think seminary makes kids really sleep deprived.

[@nathantopp9763]

I can give you a host of sleep deprivation stories from my mission. E.g. We had a spell where our mission rule was for us to be out proselytizing bz 4:30am. We were allowed a "power nap" later in the day, but I recall never being able to fall asleep.

[@christie8493]

As far as conditioning the mind to love the Book of Mormon , the same could be said about any favorite book. I read my favorite book when I’m feeling sad and it always makes me feel better. There’s wisdom in Anne Rice’s “Interview with a Vampire”. Or if I practiced tarot and any time I was struggling I drew a tarot card and it gave me advice so now I’ve built these positive emotional feelings around the tarot deck. So the Book of Mormon is not unique or more special, they’ve just been conditioned to use that book when they feel down.

[@mormonstories]

Agreed.

[@neenerz419]

I've been nondenominational the majority of my years,I was taught to tithe,as we gave what we could,as well giving of ourselves to others, like a ride to church,hand me down clothes,or food,we can tithe daily by loving others,helping others,ourselves,so we can be helpful in #ALL ways,to #ALL hearts,I struggle daily with terminal illnesses, tumors disease and so much more that I live 80% of my life bedridden or should I say recliner written as I'm sitting in my recliner right now and my twin died unexpectedly 4 years ago June 3rd was the 4th anniversary so as well I lost my flight attendant career and my cheerleading choreographing career to my illnesses which forced me to live back in Wisconsin with my mom and move away from Louisiana where my heart truly is with my kids and I have been here trying to fight my way back since 9/11/01 several tumor removal surgeries including Brain and Spine I won't go on about my health I will add that emotionally I struggle missing my children and because of my tumors disease it affects my brain and chemical imbalances which also affect me emotionally and I walk by faith daily praying out loud and rebuking anything that is not of God but let's get real these emotions are true and they are there so for me as well I try to do what I can do by helping others who are suffering anything that I've been through emotionally physically abuse wise which I've been through abuse all of my life every form you can imagine so for me another form of tithing is helping others and with today's modern day technology we are able to go online and find these different accounts of people who have accounts on Facebook or just regular KZbin Instagram anything helping people who are reaching out for help just to hear somebody else say I understand what can I do to help you can I pray for you can I do something for you just to know that is out there helps me so that is another form of tithing in my eyes and heart to help others as there are several other ways if we are around people in public and you see somebody a simple smile helps, I am on SSI disability which limits me to funding,trying to save money to see my kids is one thing! but healthy enough to physically go and do it is another thing😢 so I have to stay strong ☝️❤✌🙇😇☝️✌🙇and be faithful and show my kids that I am strong ☝️❤✌so that when I do join the spirit world😇 they know that their mother was strong and survived and they can do it too and any situation, so I am a convert and I am a new member of LDS Church and I am not capable of 10% of my SSI disability income and have been told that it is basically against the law to tithe your SSI disability money because this is your money that you #live on and I do not work anymore! I was a flight attendant! I was cheerleading choreographer!I #was making money! I am not no longer making any money! and I live off of this money! I do not get food stamps! and I'm working on that right now! and I do tithe! no it's not 10%! But I give what I can give when I can give it!I can do without that Milky Way bar or a $5 pair of shoes that I don't need! that I found at the thrift store! instead I give it to tithing! so I find things that I don't need to tithe, as well as emotional tithing!❤❤❤✌✌☝️ and helping others ☝️✌✌❤❤🙇🙇as well as driving another member of our church to church every Sunday in my broken down car🙈 that I spent hundreds of dollars on 🙈with my mother's help to keep this car to drive me to church every Sunday ☝️as I live out in the country 🙅🤷🙅almost an hour away in travel time! so that is another form tithing! by me picking up another member of church who does not have a car.. even though my car is falling apart as we speak🙉 I keep praying🙇🙇☝️☝️✌✌❤ in faith that it gets me to and from my needs🖒meaning Church and the store to get groceries when I am able to drive that is.. so I just wanted to add that and say that there are many ways that can be helpful,especially keeping our hearts in check with what is VERY crucial TODAY =hearts! As a convert I have SOOO much LOVE to give and to me that is helping more than my slip up of that cup of coffee I drank,after my head was pounding soo hard,canteen withdrrawl, yes i live and love the words of wisdom and it's a part of order,as well healthy,I'm just saying we can help hearts daily, the missionaries give up SOO much! I LOVE being their missionary mom,as they learn from me,a convert,as I learn from them as this is all most Mormons born n raised know!so humbly there are ways to help each other daily!&get that tithing in many ways!yes I have been blessed and I do have a lot of testimonies since I was baptized and before I was baptized and this was in March on March 24th of this year I was baptized and I am in my calling as a primary teacher and I love it but they all know that I have to say if health allows!as I'm terminally ill! #YET I'm a go-getter and a Spitfire who will stop at nothing to help others and then I drag myself to my bed in pain,so I also use wisdom as God says USE Wisdom and resentment!so I'm always here in prayer,praying daily peace that passes all understanding in #ALL we in the name of Jesus and let's turn the world around together as 1! Clap your hands, raise it high praising heavenly father in the name of Jesus, I do this at home as I pray,as I listen to praise and worship music and I respect silence and I respect what should be silence and what should be in the church and I will never disrespect that because before I became a convert I was sure I was going to have issues with a sit still Church meaning I love my praise and worship music and I'd love to say Amen and I love to lift my hand in the air when the spirit feels me and just say thank you in the name of Jesus so this I will leave you with him say I respect and love and I will give in love and pray daily that we all come together and just love because we are all God's children and we all have a plan and a purpose and I think sometimes each other's testimonies can help each other out even me as a convert 48 years and non denomination to LDS Mormon I feel and see changes already in so much specially after I watch the video as one with the 40th anniversary video I heard also read a lot of people bashing it and commenting very bad things but I pray for their hearts because down deep inside I believe in Jesus I believe that I have a heavenly father and I believe that Jesus is his son as he sits at the right hand of our father I believe in the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the holy spirit that was brought to us through Jesus Christ as they were when he walked the Earth as he's alive today so when it comes to equality I think and believe that we are all children of God yet I believe in order at the same time if I make any sense whatsoever God bless with all my love!

[@bigskypioneer1898]

Outsider looking in, I have long considered the Mormon Mission to be more about indoctrinating the youth than outreach - at least since the 80's. But you have to look at the pressure on those kids to be able to go out on their mission, so that they can get married.... etc. Don't underestimate that life-plan pressure on such an impressionable age. I'll just say it this way, there is a reason the military recruits people in the _exact_ same age range.

[@ermannos]

@58:38 very very good point! You could probably have a similar experience by reading any book over and over again

[@erstwhile3793]

The Word of Wisdom is nothing more than one of the many Temperance Pledges that early 19th century New England was rife with, and they all included abstaining from coffee, tea, and tobacco, as well as "spirits" (alcohol). Some also brought in dietary fads of the day, such as eating produce in season, and moderation in consumption of meat. Sleep deprivation: early morning seminary created real sleep deprivation for my teenagers. I was genuinely concerned about it at the time, because they struggled with depression, anxiety, and attention disorders, and sleep deprivation seemed out of order in that context, but I wasn't able to follow my instinct to let them choose whether to attend, because we're told that seminary makes the difference between growing up "righteous" or lost in darkness. My heart and gut were telling me that seminary was actually more harmful than good for my kids, but my indoctrination told me not to trust my instincts over church leader's guidance. I doubt my family was unique in this way!

[@figueiro26]

It is so interesting to me to see that I have been attending the same church as these people my entire life and my experience with it was the opposite. For me, this phenomenon is an evidence that we see the world with different lenses. The real question is, if we allow God to pic the lenses we see the world, how different would we feel with God lenses compared to when we are using the lenses of our choice?

[@bigskypioneer1898]

In 1500's western Europe, men were judged by their calves and women were considered "racy" if they showed their ankle to a man. So whenever emphasis is placed on "you must do this to prevent this" it is just natural to focus on that "do or don't" when it comes to human sexuality. On the issue of sleep - how much sleep do the missionaries get? just curious.

[@bigskypioneer1898]

Just curious, are Mormon children allowed to attend meetings or other church activities outside of LDS?? I mean consistently - not the odd Sunday here or there because the child attended a slumber party or are staying with Non Mormon family. I went to church camp with my BFF growing up and we attended a completely different denomination, and my parents weren't the slightest bit threatened or worried I would "learn" something contradictory to our denomination. As I got older, a different friend had a Sunday school that was more fun than ours so in the summer, my mom would let me go to church with my friend. Again, no worry that I would learn anything outside of our belief system even though we were in two completely different denominations. But there were no conversations like "they believe this and we believe this" type of conversations with my parents. I grant this was all in the sphere of Protestantism, but I have never lived in a region that Catholicism was really a major player in the community.

[@figueiro26]

The church allow to explore other churches. The church teach that we should seek for everything that is good, in or out of the church.

[@samthenotwinchester5518]

I feel like the monthly fasting can not have been helpful to anyone with an eating disorder

[@FFM115]

The more I read the BOM the more I realize that the LDS church is not following its own doctrine. The BOM teaches about free agency, it teaches about charity, it teaches that we shouldn't practice priestcraft, it teaches about unity, equality etc.. Interestingly enough it doesn't mention a single time about LGBT issues which for me it means that God is not worried about people's sex orientation.

[@bigskypioneer1898]

An outsiders thought about being pressured to remain in the Mormon bubble or to live in a Mormon community like Utah -- I know most of you were kind of soft on this being "mandated by the church" --- but there doesn't have to be a teaching on this subject for there to be pressure from the church. I know that there are many verses in the Epistles about like minded believers spending their time together, there are also examples from the Gospels. The fact that this is a mindset that seems to ripple through the entire community.... it comes from somewhere folks. If you are getting your guidance from a single source - then I don't think it is a big leap of logic to realize somewhere, somehow the church culture is creating this pressure. It may not be a "Thou Shalt live among believers" commandment - all of you wouldn't have this same experience if someone didn't create the environment conducive to this ideal.

[@jonmoonswesternnyoutdoorad5750]

Something to consider is how all of these control methods together shape the mindset and perception of non Mormons. The totality of this controlshapes mormons view of people who may be less modest or people who drink or practice safe sex practices out of marriage as immoral. When in fact there are many people who are just as moral and good people who don't live those standards. This contributes to the demonization and fear of leaving Mormonism.

[@KitKat-gw4rh]

Along with sex rules, the command to not masturbate is also harmful. Most people benefit from that activity/outlet. Also men can get off through intercourse but many women cannot. So if you can't touch yourself or engage in oral sex... I mean... hopefully the men can use their hands for women's pleasure? Kind of doubt it, though.

[@figueiro26]

The best way to understand the law of chastity thought by the Church of Jesus Christ is by studying the topic and asking God to help you to understand it and to guide you while you are studying the topic. This way you will learn from the Master and as a plus you will improve your relationship with Him. I say, consider everyones opinion on the topic and rely only on what the Master teaches you in private.

[@southernbawselady7092]

One word...AWESOME... (This is coming from a (fading) Jehovah's Witness)

[@gfullmer]

It is interesting to note that the United Order in the early Mormon Church was very controlling financially. Some compare it to Socialism. The difference between the United Order and Socialism is that supposedly the United Order is voluntary, but it is hard to disobey the rules of the State because they have the threat of force and will use it. This was true of the United Order unless you were on the Danites list. ;-)

[@NotTheExpert2]

Glen Fullmer I agree. I am a descendant of the founders of the United Order. With back stories of abuse and control that happened it surprises me how much that is swept under the rug with, “it had to be that way for the good of the Order”.

[@AnArchyRulzz]

@@NotTheExpert2 LDS just a cult that is better at reforming and changing to be more acceptable