What the Warcry Squatpocalypse means for you.

It's a rough day for a lot of Warcry fans. Remember all your old stuff is still playable for the duration of 2nd edition, and send all clarifying questions to warcryfaq@gwplc,com

[@TheDeliciousMystery]

Remember when the game was about chaos cults in the eightpoints?

[@Colorcrayons]

I do, and so does Peppridge Farms. Good times. Better times.

[@MrVidma1]

In underworlds all OG warbands remained playable even out of production. They were really bad but people still could play them. Now they started to update decks for them and selling them in limited run but they always stayed playable! I think same could be with Warcry.

[@JohnnyLeyenda]

Not sure about this, as Underworlds bands need decks to be played, whereas Warcry does not, so there would be little point in needing a reprint, but I do hope they are not gone forever.

[@bruttibler100]

Think that's what Rivals decks are meant to address, you can run a more generic deck for older warbands ​@@JohnnyLeyenda

[@kalamity9]

Bro, they culled the horns of hashut, a warband that is less than 2 years old. Quite the precedent to set and it makes me wonder as to what is the lifespan of a new box I buy. 8 years? 6 years? Maybe 3? Or even less?

[@MrVidma1]

I wanted to say those warbands will still be playable and maybe with updated stats even out of production so dont worry if you have them. Just sucks for new people if they want buy them.

[@anotherzingbo]

I don't paint quickly enough for Warbands to be retired within 2 to 3 years. I only finished my Horns of Hashut last month, am I only going to be able to play them for a year?

[@Hazebusterz]

Why would you? Are they deleting their rules from the existing universe? Nerds man ..

[@anotherzingbo]

@@Hazebusterz the expectation, with quite a lot of prior behaviour backing it up, is that Warcry will get a new edition next year. If that edition doesn't support these warbands then people who have them are left with the choice of either not playing them, or not getting access to the new stuff in the next edition, nor participating in its community.

[@artycharr]

@@Hazebusterz I think its more a matter of removing support, basically when someone removes support for a product it goes away pretty soon after.

[@assistantref5084]

The decision to squat so many original warcry warbands is really sad from a modeling perspective. They're such great models, among the best if not *the* best range GW has ever done. I have to assume it's just the accountants looking at the numbers and saying they aren't selling well enough, so off they go. Which is sad.

[@michaelstevens5712]

As someone just painting up my first box (started working Askurgans to proxy for Killteam Mandrakes, decided Warcry looks more fun) I really appreciate the calm, measured breakdown. My hope is that the warbands that survived did so for reasons other than recency. Rotmire and Jade Obelisk are really compelling alternatives to the standard cultist-warrior and I think both settings would really benefit from developing that further. I'm very tempted to grab some Unmade now while they're available to work into an eventual Dark Mechanicum army.

[@thesaltyseagames]

Rotmire and JO are everything I ever wanted from Warcry. I wish the other faction-specific warbands were that much of a deep iteration.

[@JamesMKeegan]

I think it's pretty wild to be dropping such new models, but I'm guessing they don't want to keep producing them if they're doing so many slightly different model ranges. It seems like the move across Warcry and Kill Team is to stop producing unicorns and focus on making horses- drop the unique flavorful models that mainly belong in one game in favor of updating old stuff or making an upgrade sprue for something that slots into an existing 40K or AOS army. Which is a cynical philosophy but welcome to a publicly traded corporation. This is why I'm less and less into Kill Team and it seems like the same direction is coming to Warcry. Granted, I think AoS as a setting is a better blank canvas so the Warcry stuff might be more fun than "Remember Striking Scorpions? They're back- in plastic!"

[@DaronSchmit]

I think it's important to note that "The Game" here refers to Age of Sigmar 4e, not specifically Warcry. The models are being discontinued from production, but not removed from Warcry itself (though the writing is on the wall for the next edition of Warcry imo)

[@Vallenstein]

warbands permanently removed from the store would still have consequences, since the 2nd hand market will get pricy since they will be "collector items"

[@DaronSchmit]

@@Vallenstein right, but the warbands that you have are still playable for the life of Warcry 2.0 (as far as we know)

[@angelx9724]

Hate this. Hate this SO MUCH. But, OPR Age of Fantasy Skirmish still has the Havoc Warclans, so I'll be fine.

[@gribblegreeble]

The Isstvan V of AoS and Warcry. Just one more punishing step for those warbands, which a big letdown was already when they switched from AoS branding to Warcry and the kits stayed the same price but halved the quantity. From a model standpoint many were excellent and already hard to come by, making whatever are left harder to get and certainly to be price boosted.

[@machinamawatcher]

Good video, very level-headed response. Personally my biggest worry is that if Warcry 3.0 does drop all these original Warcry warbands, it could lead to a "schism" of sorts in the community; in my local scene the original Chaos warbands are very popular and the general consensus among our players seems to be that if they're absent from 3rd edition, as a group we'll just be sticking to 2nd edition. For an isolated group that's fine, but if that mentality becomes a popular one suddenly the next edition of Warcry loses a good chunk of its audience which could cause issues with continued support for the game, and from a community perspective you lose the benefits and cohesion that comes from everyone playing the same common ruleset. I don't think it's a likely possibility, but I don't think it's impossible either.

[@thesaltyseagames]

I'm a little worried about that as well. Not too much, just a little. Your group isn't the only one with similar feelings, there's always been a small contingent of people who just see the original 6 warbs as being good wholesome warcry as it was always intended, and anything else as being a bit... not cheap... but maybe a smidge newfangled and lacking culture.

[@paulwatson317]

The way i see it is me and my friends can play what ever models, bands and edition of rules we want as long we agree. I niw see this as we can all have a legends tournement for the veterans of warcry. What you also have to ask is are games workshop going to do this to kill team.

[@HobbyJackal]

On it! "AAAAAaaaaAaAaaggghhhhh!!!"

[@DanVaelling]

If I can't play my warbands in 3rd, I'm not gonna play 3rd.

[@onionhat745]

Makes me want to avoid Specialist games like the plague. It's too bad, WarCry is my favorite GW game system.

[@001Elpato]

Well actually I hope they still keep cards and points for those warbands. I’m ok they no longer for sale, but not be able to play with something we invest time and money and cannot play anymore just sucks bad.

[@Vallenstein]

Its not much, but there is a string of hope. On the official twitter announcement, someone asked if this means that they wont be for sale anymore at all or if they are just removed from AOS. At the time of posting the official Community Twitter said they relay the question to the higher ups, since they arent sure themselves. If all of those warbands will be removed im very upset since alot of the warbands i wanted (even just for painting) are sold out and its also been confirmed by the official twitter account that there will be "no restocks on these items"

[@Colorcrayons]

Most of those warbands have been online only, and out of stock for the better part of two years now. And while I have seen most if not all return to the store, I always miss the windo since I see them for sale, then say "next paycheck I'll pick one up" and by that time, they are of course gone again. GW seem to be in disarray, but what is certain is that this isnt a good sign for warcry, no matter how its attempted to be sugar coated.

[@mmaier4587]

It's a bad move all round, it's what they have been doing lately with everything.

[@WilliamHatton0]

Seems crazy to me getting rid of such great models, I rather play and spend my money on most of these squatted Warcry warbands then most of the AoS range. That and my main warband BoC going away has me feeling pretty down on the future of Warcry. Not sure how much more time I want to put into my Vulkyn Flameseekers.

[@printandplaygamer7134]

I agree that proxying is going to keep the OG models alive for a lot of us. For example, Iron Golems can be pretty reasonably proxied in for Chaos Legionnaires and vice versa. I've been sticking my Legionnaire Hornshields into Iron Golem lists as extra Iron Legionnaries already anyway. Without planning it, I inadvertently painted the two warbands in similar schemes--red metallic armor with bronze trim--so they don't look too jarring on the field together. It will be easy enough to flip it the other way, and use my Iron Legionary as Hornshield. I just wish I hadn't built the Iron Legionaries with the bola and the twin hammers--turns out the shields are much more useful.

[@philipbowles5397]

I haven't been expecting Warcry to get a third edition, and most recent releases have conspicuously been made for AoS and just released through Warcry (as were the Khainite Shadowstalkers, which were a reimagined update of the retired Dark Elf Shades): Gorgers and Hunters of Huanchi were direct updates to WFB kits, Riverblades are an aelementiri (basically,. Lumineth Aspect Warriors) unit and they and Pyregheists are clearly equipped as AoS units rather than Warcry bands. Wildercorps Hunters were even marketed as part of the AoS main range in previews and Warcry only mentioned at the end of a video. Vulkyn Flameseekers had an Army of Renown built around them. Rotmire Creed were seemingly designed to fil a specific function in Maggotkin. Most of the AoS 3 warbands have been 'pushed' in AoS to be at least relevant, in a way most older ones never were - Hounds of Karanak and Beastflayers even took nerfs, while Trueblades and Monsta-Killaz have seen a fair bit of play, and Soulsworn some. i expected the game to come to an end when every AoS faction has at least one warband - with Beasts gone there are 5 left (6 if they want to make an Ironjawz warband), and that all of these will remain in AoS. Jade Obelisk is the only one so far that lacks both gameplay and lore relevance in AoS. This announcement seems to support what I already assumed - they don't even seem to have registered the impact on Warcry, and the only StD warbands that survived are things that match the StD aesthetic they're now working with and so make sense as part of the AoS range. Pretty much, they're removing anything that is only relevant in Warcry.

[@michaelcasteel9307]

I think all of the Gloomspite Gitz, Kruleboyz, and Ogres bands will be safe too.

[@hivemarketminis]

Wanted to add some more color to the Kill Team situation. This current edition in on the third "season" in 2024. The started box for seasons 1 & 2 provided full, new Kill Teams, with the subsequent bundle boxes offering one brand new, multi option KT (2 - 3 loadouts per model, 10ish specialist models) and one "old" 40k kit with a specialists enhancement sprue. Honestly, it's been pretty great from a modeling and playing standpoint, and it's not bad for 40k (with the new units sitting between the big game viability of the bespoke warbands and the "this is just a big game release in the skirmish game" ones). So! Jump to 2024! The two current season boxes ARE 40K units snuck out through KT, with the scouts and scorpions dropping separately of their big box within weeks. The next set previewed at Adepticon looks like two bespoke teams, but the Votann are a 40k drop and rhe GSC ones might be when we get more info. The point being that the new season is a major shift from them trying fun bespoke ideas and back to just 40k drops in a bigger box. We'll have to see what the next two Warcry releases look like, but much like you're saying, this isn't the direction I expected either game to go even if it isn't necessarily the worst.

[@Goodenough-]

Agree, but if you think the Mandrakes are bespoke, then you are craycray. This should just add more fuel to your argument, but funny you missed them in your list.

[@hivemarketminis]

@@Goodenough- oh I very much meant those when referencing the second set for this season. Another x2 sets of 5 models release, the exact opposite of the old bespoke stuff. The set previewed at Adepticon/not on preorder yet is the Votann and GSC, and while the Night Lords update is cool, that looks like another half sprue of new stuff for an old kit.

[@Micahaphone]

At the in person reveals show for LVO 2023, they did a Q&A. Someone asked basically if Kill Team Season 3 was going to happen, and the presenter's response was "We had only two seasons of KT planned, the popularity really surprised us, we're definitely going to do a 3rd season." So S3 being old mechanicus terrain, a new cardboard base, and mostly just new 40k units being given special rules fits with that, they're having a bit more of a scramble for models and ideas. I'm still excited to see some upgrade sprues and new specialists coming out occasionally though, and I need to commend the KT rules writers, they've been given some big limitations but are still creating amazing rules

[@marcog7442]

I hope you are wrong this time, because removing all those bands will cause many people to quit WC and GW will close a non selling game very soon. I think those miniatures will remain in 3rd ed. but will be probably limited in tournaments. (only a small % of WC players play competitive, while a huge % own those bands)

[@thesaltyseagames]

I think if they're smart they'll give them some new version of "legends" rules in the compendium, but just write something about it only being for open and narrative play

[@CorpCoral]

I should probably get the splintered fang before its gone.

[@theDackjanielz]

im not fussed it was obviously gonna happen sooner or later, ill simply proxxy them as other things im not gonna bin my guys - the only one that does bother me is the horns of hashut, those guys are new and awesome and i find it quite baffling to see them going already?... Have a feeling maybe GW regrets making them as they caused quite some controversy.

[@awerges2205]

The way I see it, GW made a mess, knew they were making a mess, and doubled down on that mess. They know what in AoS sells on their webstore and I can guarantee that their sales were not over 90% chaos. Yet they made a chaos skirmish game for its 1st edition. As for the darkoath thing, they already had the design language down as far back as Crystal Tower, so I think they're trying to cover their butts with the explanation they gave on warhammer community. Basically dodging the actual reason by talking about lore.

[@LimakPan]

This means new Warbands will follow the designs of the upcoming Pyregheists. Where they're base army models with only a tiny bit of flavor.

[@philipbowles5397]

They were mostly already doing that. The Riverblades are explicitly an AoS unit, the river temple equivalent of Alarith Stoneguard and Hurakan Windchargers. The Bonereapers and Sylvaneth are oddities that are the first warbands that 'look' made for Warcry in some time.

[@laszlotakacs5046]

Khainite Shadowstalkers survived the great culling of 2024! Does it mean that they are better than Horns of Hashut? :D

[@thesaltyseagames]

Well they sure will be in a year and a half!

[@Kometrion]

I think the removal of some warband is related to the Darkoath AoS release, and the fact that, from the last release of Slaves to Darkness for Aos, all the 1.0 Warcry warbands were released in "doulbe boxes" (containing warband x2). Darkoath will replace all the Warcry warbands in AoS and I feel GW will re release all 1.0 warbands in single warbands again in the future.

[@Vaellas]

Yes, they did say in the article all the Darkoath models to collect that could be added. They did not however mention Godsworn Hunt so I thought maybe they aren't being part of it, but then they were not on the list today so maybe they just missed them out.

[@philipbowles5397]

@@Vaellas Godsworn Hunt have already been removed from sale in a 'purge' of the first three seasons of Underworlds a year or two ago, so they don't need to be highlighted as a warband that's being removed. With a couple of odd exceptions, such as Ylthari's Guardians, only Direchasm onwards warbands are still in the webstore.

[@o7_AP]

I'm gonna interject: idk why everyone is acting like it's a fact that the warbands that won't be in production are gonna get squatted from Warcry. GW has had plenty of instances of continuing to update rules for out of print models across different games. I have to respectfully and heavily disagree with Dan on this one point: yes, I absolutely DO want them to still be around in 3rd. There's no reason that them being OOP means the rules can't still be updated and in line with everything else. Tbh I would be very surprised and upset if they do rotate out the bespoke teams, and it would lead to me dropping the game I'm almost certain

[@jester7028]

Ain’t nothing safe with GW. They have been watching hasbro and want to Magic ifi all their models. They will keep releasing new stuff creating “bloat” and when certain kits stop selling then bam all gone and new start. Honestly I’m choked about this whole thing.

[@totomen666]

Step 1 - Make more than 14 factions Step 2 - Print shitload of fodder figurines Step 3 - Findout that only OP and best sculped Armies are selling Step 4 - Retire ugly sculped fodder armies Step 5 - Play word games, do damage control, say that kids have one more year with their shitty fodder armies Recycle 1-5 steps for new table top game, then say that it sells badly, rinse and repeat until you billionaire P.S. Ogres and Lizardmen not safe from being retired, b-e-c-a-u-s-e they fit into Fantasy and have lesser chances at High Fantasy (AoS), there is key question if they wants to do crossover among Fantasy/High-Fantasy/Sci-Fi and just make game rules be the same for Old World+Age of Sigmar+40K, time machine or just interchangeable units/bases/boxes/terrain/cards, since if i were in charge of figurine/books selling company i would already started selling cards like Underworld has, to make them necessary for all table top games, collectors gonna collect whole book of Yu-Gi cards.

[@PlainBoredom]

reading the article, i thought it was mostly a rules thing for aos 4e coming out. most of the slaves to darkness units don't make sense in a larger coherent army. i really can't wrap my head around why horns of hashut is on there & gets their models removed from the store after only 2 years. my idea was, that hashut gets life support rules until next summer in slaves to darkness & will then relaunch in hashut's own chaos dwarf army, cause it's heavily implied that happens & then it wouldn't make sense the way it is. on the flopside, since khanite shadowstalkers aren't on the list, but saih is, i don't think the shadow elves are getting a full aos army in the next year. also, most old boxes are the aos version of the warcry warbands. maybe getting cut from the aos range doesn't mean they get gutted but rereleased with their new cards slowly or getting love in another way. surely they don't throw out fan favorites just like that

[@philipbowles5397]

Horns of Hashut seem an incredibly bizarre warband to cut, but looking at them from the perspective of AoS warscrolls they aren't really any different from the other cultists so it probably doesn't make sense to treat them differently - they were already a bit of an oddity as a warband designed to a Warcry 1 paradigm but released in Warcry 2. The most plausible alternative interpretation is that the Legions of Hashut will be released in 4th Edition, and instead of having to deal with the oddity of having a Chaos Dwarf-themed warband in Slaves to Darkness they're just dropping it with the potential to bring it back in future in the appropriate faction.

[@Goodenough-]

Long time watcher, first time commenter. Love your content, but you are thinking about this only from a competitive point of view (which is understandable). Which is why I wanted to give my 2 cents. I play casually (only friend groups) and the fact that they won't support the Warcry warbands casually is wrong. I support bringing balance back to the competitive level, but not supporting casually is just lazy. It takes very little effort to support units for the casual players, just pop out stats once a year, do updates if they drastically change the game (like with AOS 4 releasing and the effects it's having). Why would I want to spend so much time painting, learning, and playing a warband that will one day be deleted from the history of the game. I can't put this much money into a game/company that will make my plastic investments worth nothing within a few years. Happy to join the Mantic bandwagon, never really liked the fantasy setting, only stuck around because the rules are great. "Consumer Confident Issue" love it lol, you are so polite about this drama. I feel bad for all the FLGS that still have Heart of Ghur stock, that box will only be worth the terrain and we all know how people feel about the meat trees. Keep it up, again, love the content.

[@jimmould2441]

It really makes me question buying bespoke warbands now. I still have multiple bespoke boxes that are getting squatted. Kind of makes me just not even want to put then together now.

[@skylarsmith1220]

If they’re Corvus cabal I’ll buy them off you 🤷🏼‍♀️ or the unmade

[@jimmould2441]

@@skylarsmith1220 I do happen to have two sets of Unmade. My plan was to do a leader from the short story. Using a nurgle blood bowl lineman and lots of hooks and green stuff. Now I'm more leaning towards my Darkoath, Mawpack, and Vulkan Fyreslayers. Just not sure if they'll make it without getting the axe too. At least I got my Ogors. I'm currently customizing the rest of my crew. And using my others for my main army for AOS.

[@kingorpawn]

I don't see the chimera anywhere on the list. Do you think it was just an oversight?

[@TomMurrath]

To be honest, as I had this discussion yesterday with my gaming group, I think people look at it from the wrong angle. New AoS will center around regiments / retinue format for army building, each consisting standard of a hero + selected units. If you then have to throw all those loose warbands from WarCry and Underworlds into the mix (some not even having their obscure warscrolls anymore on WarCom), you would end up with 2-3 heroes in a regiment (the titular leader, as well as the unit leaders of said warbands in question). For example, and this is hypothetical, I take an Idoneth regiment led by a Taskmaster, and include both Elathain's band and Cyreni's band from Underworlds, my regiment would have three different types of heroes into a single retinue, with Elathain being a Soulrender and Cyreni a Tidecaster. I personally have the feeling they are just removing them from AoS to prevent this sort of exploitation, as well as "cleaning up the system" to AoS specific models only.

[@philipbowles5397]

Curiously, the warbands are still on the webstore and aren't marked 'Last Chance to Buy', while the AoS stuff went to Last Chance to Buy the day the article went up. And while the 1st Ed. warbands are in the webstore, it's only the Warcry-branded boxes - the double-size AoS cultist boxes are gone. So maybe we've all been wrong in taking the removal from AoS as an indication these models are being pulled from the webstore - GW may actually have remembered Warcry exists as something other than a brand name for products 'really' meant for Age of Sigmar. Maybe it will even get a third edition after all if they continue making units and terrain for AoS that they can sell as a sidegame for the little extra expense it takes to make Warcry rules for them.

[@thesaltyseagames]

That would be wild. Shocking but a wonderful surprise if that ends up as the case.

[@jgodwin17]

This is such a huge bummer, the Iron Golems are my favorite Warcry band, and I love the original Chaos bands, I have four of them painted up. I really got into Warcry initially because it kind of seemed like a Chaos only Necromunda/Mordheim. I only play casually so I suppose it probably won't impact me that much, but its such a shame to see such wonderful and characterful sculpts get tossed aside. Personally I feel like the Darkoath Savagers are the least interesting aesthetically of the lot too.

[@HappyDuude]

I guess it depends how wysiwyg warcry is - just getting into it, and have picked up a few warbands that are getting squished :/. But as long as can proxy, hopefully should work out ok. Not sure what iron golems would proxy to easily, had picked them as an easy warband to learn -- but its all abstractions i guess

[@thesaltyseagames]

people around here at least are pretty pro-proxy. That changes a bit depending on where you are.

[@IVIaskerade]

When people talk about models being old enough to drink, they're asking for an update to the sculpt not for the unit to be removed from the game. Crucially, even after a new kit is released the old models remain legal to play. That's why this squatting feels bad, because they're not just rereleasing the fatcast heroes they're outright replacing them and saying you should buy another model.

[@ravian55]

stormcast not so eternal

[@BroccoliFangirl]

Games Workshop models are not just game pieces but collectibles, and are advertised as such. Models released in 2011 are staples in the bigger systems, the basic troopers for Ogres are from 2005. The earliest warbands without many options in the box I could possibly see a reasoning for, but Horns of Hashut released summer 2022 and are being discontinued? If this is going to be the norm going forward Warcry will be completely inaccesible to many. I can't drop hundreds on toy soldiers every year just out of FOMO. Horrible news if this will indeed be how Warcry is managed from now on.

[@WilliamHatton0]

Horns of Hashut catching strays because of main studio fighting with specialist games over Chaos Dwarves is some real bs.

[@NoSkillsNoFun]

Yeah I hate it. Half my stormcast are now retiring as well. Sucks for both Warcry and AoS. I get it, when you have an army with models that approach adulthood, and you don't want to support that, it happens, but SCE itself are relatively new. I just bought myself Rotmire Creed to have something to field against my SCE...I know, I can play WarCry 2.0 how ever long I like, but it just feels bad.

[@chemmystery5217]

All this says to me is just buy one single warband. That way when I lose it I’m out way less money.

[@jasonfry2096]

Not sure we need to be proxying just yet, lets see what the lifespan is first

[@kurt-the-viking]

So, I love the channel but couldn't disagree more with the take on whether this is bad for the game or not. Of course I want bespoke warbands in the next edition. I paid hard earned cash for them. I spent time - my most valuable resource - painting them. And I want to continue playing with them among my playgroup. What I think the analysis provided in the video overlooks is that most consumers simply aren't playing competitive events nor do they particularly care if the game is "competitively balanced". I see tournament stats about the number of players who entered at Adepticon and think to myself, I know that many players in my little corner of Chicago who don't bother with events...let alone how many players around the world are like that. I, as a casual player, simply don't see Warcry as a game for me to play competitively. If my warband loses to my buddy 9 times out of 10, then I'll just throw an extra model in and say "balance adjustment" and we'll move on with our narrative. In any case, I agree GW is supporting the game in the way GW thinks appropriate...as an onramp to AoS, just like KT is an onramp to 40k. And to GW, bespoke warbands are antithetical to that onramp strategy. But it's a remarkably unfriendly strategy for the casual consumer population.

[@cgsrtkzsytriul]

90% of my models were squatted because I play BoC and have those Warbands

[@chriswittrock2231]

I feel like Games Workshop is trending towards vanilla, "meh" warbands for Warcry. Which is a real shame because the thing that pulled me into Warcry in the first place was the uniqueness of the warbands and the fact that I didn't have to field a hundred cookie-cutter miniatures to play a game. To be honest, I am hoping the new Liberator is not a foreshadow of what all of the new Stormcast and other models are going to look like - whether for Warcry or AOS in general. It just seems to lack character somehow. It should be interesting to see what they have in mind, though.

[@thesaltyseagames]

I agree the weird factor is part of what drew me to warcry. For 2nd edition, I think Rotmire, Jade Obelisk, and Vulkyn Flames hit the spot for that, but yeah most of the warbs have been straight down the middle for their faction.

[@zzgrom]

Reedo knew!

[@cristhianmlr]

You can't even call it squat anymore since they restarted making squats.

[@MindlessFocus]

I think Horns of Hashut being gone is further pointing to Chaos Dwarves.

[@Sp3ccyZA]

Here's my little conspiracy theory: We know what's been squatted from SCE & refreshed from Skaven because they're the launch armies We know BoC is going, because they're not getting a new tome Now stay with me here: Soft indicator, seeing Orruk and S2D deletions, leads me to believe they are the two tomes that will follow shortly after launch. I think we will see more range deletions/refreshes as we get closer to individual faction book releases.

[@thesaltyseagames]

That's definitely possible. Especially makes sense bc Chaos Undivided and Orruks are two of their most popular factions. Probably only SBG and Sylvaneth come close to those two and Stormcast.

[@salv.6948]

GW will always need a small skirmish scale game for each of their main games, and GW have never been able to have their main ruleset work at this small level. I really hope that Warcry or another game like WC is always around to play. I dont think that Spearhead will fill this role. Would still love a Necromunda clone in the Mortal Realms, feels like Cursed City was a failed attempt. I also think that Horns of Hashut will be back when Chaos Duardin get released in AoS.

[@thesaltyseagames]

I could see one day in the far future they smush Underworlds and Warcry together into some new game that's halfway between both, but I agree that in general they plan on always having a smallscale game.

[@opportunitysoap]

I think Warcry 3 should only have Prog.

[@criticalfocuschannel]

Vanguard chamber survided because they sell better, Sacrosant did not. It's rather simple tbh.

[@thesaltyseagames]

That's certainly possible, but I'd hope the folks at GW are nuanced enough to decode what % of Vanguard Raptor sales were simply due to the rules making them the most powerful unit in the army for much of the 7 years they've existed. Though of course there's the second layer to that, where maybe they would like to squat vanguard, but they just assume too many people are sitting on 15x Raptors, so they're going to give us an edition of them being bad, and then squat them in 3 years. As much as it hurts, I'm actually inclined to agree with the stated reason that nothing in Sacrosanct is particularly unique. Sequitors are just nerdy liberators, and Evocators look so much like this new Reclusian kit that I feel like I already have a Reclusian army.

[@000NULL]

I love those sculpts too. GW being lazy, raising prices, removing models, just balance the damn game and make the existing models work lol

[@nicklaslundstrom7924]

I think and I hope you are wrong and all Will get updated rules in 3.0. They could also easily do MTO for all old warbands for the launch. I also hope for horns re-release when chaos dwarfs come, even if it is for ToW. But I generally dislike the move to designing warbands to be AoS units. Less room for original and crazy stuff.

[@thesaltyseagames]

Bringing back Horns as a unit in Chorfs would be a nice way to build goodwill and also just seems like one fewer unit they have to design and make molds for. Most new armies are hard up for unit diversity anyway.

[@saltfreegamer]

I think for a game to remain competitive in the long run, the community has to drive. GW has too many conflicting interests to be able to fill this role. Start publishing community rules and points, be supportive of proxies and 3rd party models, and it won't matter what GW does.

[@isaactomangrief9158]

You asked for our opinions... my purely anecdotal experience has been that Warcry is really popular among casual players. Stock is always rundown online and in the hobby shops. when I go hunting. People have gone ape wild for many of the new kits, like Monstakillaz and Flameseekers. What a change from when it was just Chaos vs Chaos. Everything they're doing says to me 'Warcry is going to be Siggy Kill Team now', i.e., you have warbands based on main game factions. So it seems very simple to me: they are removing what has been (relatively) unsuccessful and leaning into what has been (relatively) more successful. If that's true, I don't think we need to worry about some kind of strict methodology warbands (e.g., only two per faction, or only if linked to subfaction). It does mean we can expect more generic, less imaginative warbands. Hopefully they keep striking the balance well, more Baby Dragon Slayers and less Damp High Elves.

[@toxiccandy7888]

Here are my thoughts. Warcry is changing. Mordhiem is coming and will be the Necromunda of AOS aka, I believe that will be the narrative way to play skirmish AOS. Warcry will become the competitive way to play AOS Skirmish games. Thus warcry will change. Hopefully they will keep the game system. I think the dice system is undeniably amazing. But if you want balance you have to ditch a lot of models and the point system. The this year boxes are looking very "kill team." And I am guessing they will be ditching the point buy system. Defined squads are much easier to balance. Just ask the KT crowd. They balance everything quarterly, and try to keep the bad in check, is it perfect no. They will learn what's too powerful and how to change it. I personally see this as the way forward for competitive warcry. I also think it will make it cheaper to get into competitive skirmish AOS gaming. Buy 2 boxes, make your lists, done. Quick easy and fun. Of course this is just a guess. Whatever they decide to do, be patient and don't judge it till you have played it. These maybe reversed as in Warcry maybe Narrative and Mordhiem maybe be Competitive.

[@apatheticrabbit]

The fact that these models are being discontinued after only 5 years means the game is dead to me. This game is way too small to change this quickly.

[@ZacLaundrie]

5 years is a long time. If you play one game of Warcry a week that means you could play 280 games before squatting. That feels like enough to me.

[@BroccoliFangirl]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@ZacLaundrie That's if you buy every warband you like at release and build and paint them immediately. The smallest amount of hobbyists will play anywhere close to once a week. Horns of Hashut are from summer 2022, so if I don't buy a Warcry warband within 2 years of release going forward, I'm just screwed out of it forever. Wargaming is not subscription-based.

[@apatheticrabbit]

@@ZacLaundrie If you play one game a week you are an addict compared to most people. This is the kind of thing I might play 2 or three times a year.

[@skylarsmith1220]

@@apatheticrabbitif you play that little, then just use the old models with the old rules. Who gives af about rules changes and “squatting” in that case

[@kyle857]

They are being removed as playable from AOS. Not from warcry.

[@heikogase2152]

Where's that Information from at all???

[@thesaltyseagames]

www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/04/whats-leaving-the-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-range/

[@mmaier4587]

Still killed warcry for more than a few. Nixong those warbands was a bad idea. They could have done things differently if they cared for fans over mass profit.

[@thesaltyseagames]

Locally I've found that it de-motivated a few people where maybe it didn't kill it for them, they still come out weekly to play, but it made them stop gushing about whatever new warbands they want to make.

[@Colorcrayons]

As far as I am concerned, all the warbands will be playable in perpetuity. Wont be playable in sanctioned events? What's that? And more relevantly, who cares about sanctioned events? It's always been a casual narrative game, despite efforts to make it a hardcore tourney game. GW removing them from sale is cause for concern regarding the future of the game, and your video title attempts to invalidate the valid concerns of many many people who have invested large sums of money into this game. Lets just take Orlocks, Goliaths, delaques, etc. from necromunda. Your entire premise is based on the "tournament scene". (see between 3:33 to 4:15 of the vid) Which is not even relevant to the majority of your local base, let alone those of the rest of the planet. We get it. You've spent your entire YT warcry career trying to make this game conform to hardcore tourney mindset. Yet this game is enjoyed by more than a handful of vociferous YT creators that presume they are the voices of the game. To be clear, this isnt a personal dig at you, but it IS a dig at the position that you are taking to invalidate the very real concerns others have, using their hardearned drachmas. You are better than that.

[@jeremoople]

Isn't everything "discontinued" still getting updated rules? It's just the models not being produced anymore

[@Phalanx167]

I suspect Horns of Hashut are only getting cut because GW has given up on plans to bring Chaos Dwarves/ Legions of Azgor into AoS, instead opting to leave them/Hashut as an Old World faction. It's pretty lame nonetheless though this overall about face on the lore of AoS with the cutting of BoC and Bonesplitterz, just for the sake of not mixing Old World and AoS (which they already share Demons, Gods, Heroes, etc.). I hate that Warcry has to suffer for GW's mistake of bloating Slaves to Darkness with all these Warbands that now have to be culled from its unwieldy range. They could at least have spread some of the Warbands around; maybe could have flavored it that these Warbands find permanent homes after their trials at the Varanspire and done something like give Iron Golems to Khorne, Unmade to Slaanesh, Cyoher Lords to Tzeench, etc. Such s shame and a waste. The funniest part is just this week I was thinking about finally picking up the Corvus Cabal since I always loved the sculpts, but now they are instantly sold out online. Very frustrating. I do not envy GW's PR team right now.

[@thesaltyseagames]

I also remember the response to Horns wasn't super warm. I wonder if the community response made them rethink Chaos Dwarves aesthetic and push the launch back a bit. I agree as well that I wish they'd spread the originals among factions to save them. Unmade in particular is just soo slaanesh.

[@Talluff]

Feels like I'm definitely the minority here but having around 5 years doesn't seem too bad to me? Things sometimes will have to be downscoped, otherwise it just scales out of control with too many models to keep track of. And tbh it'll suck but I imagine in that many years there'll be new cool things to play. If I have any invalid models then will just do 'counts as' and choose something that roughly works

[@Crushanator1]

i like painting and converting, I've just done a basic job on the Warcry I have, but I have Underworlds teams I've spent like 15 hours a model on and I play those in events. I think the entire first two seasons worth of teams I have painted to a good enough standard I might get the best painted promo cards at any local. I'm currently in the middle of painting a full and lightly converted Killteam to a high standard, and doing 20 models at even like 10 hours a model represents 200 hours. The idea that they're declared invalid bc of a weird interdepartmental fight between two middle managers at GW stings, especially if I assume I'm maybe not even buying them day 1 and taking awhile to build and paint them... IDK I might be actually only playing with them at a few local events and one major for a year. at that point I'll just go back to card games and gunpla.

[@philipbowles5397]

I think GW has brought this on themselves with a historically slow pace for updates, as people have become accustomed to models being usable for decades. Other games like Kings of War have replaced or dropped stuff in the space of less than a decade. GW has been pretty much forced to accelerate its rate of turnover - 3D printing and now in some cases plastics are competitive in quality with what GW was putting out 10, and in some cases even 5, years ago. Its older ranges are becoming increasingly unattractive as a result, and it's no longer going to be able to sit on ranges for 30 years without full refreshes. AoS 3 saw a huge amount of turnover of old WFB kits, when the first two editions had replaced barely anything until the Soulblight update at the very end of AoS 2. It's pretty unfortunate that it all came to a head at once at that GW decided to do a massive stocktake now, but they probably did need to trim most of what they dropped - though probably not the Warcry warbands.

[@Raskin1590]

This is great. I’m excited to keep moving forward! We need this so we can see new awesome warband come into play.

[@DustyLamp]

Low-key wished warcry WOULD die. It could become fully community supported like Mordhiem and we'd avoid GW bs like this.

[@skylarsmith1220]

65 iq take. Then there’s no more models and terrain to buy. Just make your own rules

[@DustyLamp]

@@skylarsmith1220 The irony. Do you think the mordhiem scene is reliant on bespoke terrain and models? What is better for a community: a Live Service-esc model buying treadmill with (often unbalanced) rules provided, or stable fan balanced and supported rules that requires kitbashing?

[@Colorcrayons]

As a Mordheim lover from the 90's, I somewhat agree. But really, we can already do that while the game gets official support. That's because we are the people who play the game. So if we want to just do narrative stuff using V1 warbands in the Bloodwind Spoils, then the game continuing to be supported doesn't prevent that. However, there is definitely a distinct comfort in knowing that a game is "complete" and you dont have to worry about keeping up with the churn that GW are employing. We can try to ignore it all we want, but it does take some strong self restraint to not even look at something new for a category of a thing we enjoy. You and I both know that if GW came out with a new Mordheim official warband tomorrow, that we would DEFINITELY take a gander... and be tempted. What does suck though, is not being able to give GW money (too much money) for the privilege of buying their products marketed with FOMO psychologically abusive tactics. This is why I have nearly bought all the V1 stuff, because I want to make sure I am not hunting like I did once Mordheim went away for all the stuff I missed when it was around. Its also why this pisses me off, because there is still stuff I need to finish my V1 collection, and 5 years wasnt enough to get it all on a reasonable expenditure rate. Which is frankly ridiculous. Absurd even. This has proved though that despite GW showing they are capable of making a quality product (warcry good game design) they really shouldnt be trusted with the valuable resource of time that we can never regain.

[@skylarsmith1220]

@@DustyLamp clearly official support… nobody plays Mordheim.

[@robertviscomi8199]

First!

[@olafolafsson2755]

Dont know anyone who plays warcry

[@Fpsdood]

Classic GW, be happy the game isnt being scrapped all together.

[@Fpsdood]

you act like 5-6 years is a short time, this is purely a post-covid mentality, if these kits were produced consistently for 5 years that would be a win on its own, most of these warbands/terrain kits became incredibly hard to find after the first few months of their release.