What We Learned From the Deepest Look at Homelessness in Decades

[@markmurphy558]

I lived in Midtown Manhattan in the eighties with my partner, and got to know a homeless couple who "lived' in the neighborhood. They were not drug addicted or obviously mentally ill when we met them, although they had lost custody of their two young children. Over the course of 6 to eight months we would feed them occasionally, and get them a cheap room on cold nights. We considered them, if not friends, acquaintances whose company we enjoyed. Unfortunately, their mental health was steadily deteriorating, their hygiene worsened, and they were arrested several times for nuisance violations. Eventually, we had to end our interaction with this couple when they scammed us out of some money. The point of this long-winded tale, is that homelessness, while sometimes caused by mental illness, also CAUSES AND EXACERBATES mental illness. Sleeping on the sidewalk makes you crazy, man. It can take your kids away from you. It can destroy your humanity.

[@hughquigley5337]

Thanks for this wholesome and humanizing comment. I was fully expecting it to end with something along the lines of "and that's why you can't trust those no-good homeless people" but I was pleasantly surprised. I can't imagine how scary it must be to find yourself without shelter.

[@markmurphy558]

@@hughquigley5337 Thank you for your kind words. I myself found myself locked out of my SRO hotel when I ran into a bad patch and spent several nights in the park sleeping on a bench. Scary times! Luckily I had some friends who rescued me. Not everyone has that kind of support.

[@vaughnmiller185]

A few months ago I read an article in which someone wrote that the "Homelessness crisis is the everything crisis", whether it's a result of health problems, job loss, stagnant wages, domestic violence, lack of support for veterans etc.. I don't think any of the issues contributing to homelessness have been lessened or addressed in my lifetime.

[@kenlandon6130]

At best, the most impactful things that have been done are the mostly ineffectual rent control laws in some big cities and blue states as well as blue state restrictions on single family zoning policies imposed by local governments.

[@jeretribbles39]

Where's can I find the article mentioned

[@rhmendelson]

WE’VE MADE SOCIETY TOO COMPLEX! That is the problem! If we’re having a greater failure rate, it means something has to change. People can’t continue sucking massive wealth out of the system without putting some back in. So the wealthy need to make a greater contribution, the government needs to subsidize housing at more than 1% (some nations invest 50%), and we need to develop other cities so that people move there instead of already overcrowded places. And people need to be paid a LOT more than all the productivity profits going to the 1% who are already insanely wealthy.

[@lindaandersenholmes8270]

I lived on an island off the west coast of BC Canada. I moved away last December after 40 years. I thoroughly enjoyed this podcast. The description of Appalachia and the people described made me homesick for my island! The island has a long history and mining and quarrying are the products of this island. But the similarities between the people of Appalachia and my island is fascinating! The sense of community, the wave, the helping each other, your children being watched by the islanders, the farm kids and the village kids and the list is endless! So opposites end of this continent and we are the same. We are humans. It gives me hope during what I consider these troubled times. Thank you to Ms Kingfisher and yourself for a wonderful podcast . I just discovered your channel and I very thankful I did!

[@cd4429]

I have been a landlord in low-income housing for over 20 years. What I saw was a pattern of behavior that led to an inevitable crash. The tenant was employed and responsible. Then substance abuse began, and it progressively got worse, over about 4 to 6 months. By the end, there was no job, no income, the apartment was filthy. There was no choice but to remove them. They had transformed into totally different people. Now with no job (can't hold one because the addiction is out of control) and with a recent eviction, you cannot get housing. I am not saying this represents all homeless people, but it is a big cross section. There are also very mentally ill people who refuse care/housing in large part because they have to get clean. Advocates for the homeless insist on their right to live on the streets while the police are drowning in complaints and jails are overwhelmed. Homelessness is probably 10% represented by "the poor guy" who lost his job and is coach surfing.

[@sebastienledoux7566]

100% agree. I volunteer with the homeless and I see what you said to a T. When the "working poor" lose their housing, they relocate.

[@ftenzer]

The reason why some people are drug addicts is because something is wrong with their brains that cause these people to use drugs in the first place therefore, replace their defective brains with normal brains in order so that they will no longer be drug addicts in the first place likewise, do the same thing for people with mental illness in order so that from now on, they will live free of mental illness in the first place.

[@StevenAllen-z6b]

I don't remember anything she said and I am absolutely exhausted.

[@ericbray4286]

It helps to put the play speed on .75 to listen to this.

[@QuaaludeCharlie]

I was Homeless 7 Years and incarcerated 14 , I am now on SSI and the Monthly Income is $914.00 a Month but the Bank takes $2.00 a Month for a Paper Statement . I live in a Duplex left to me for Now , I'll let you know that the reason People can't stay at a Shelter is the Rules , gotta be in at a certain time , Can't Smoke when you want to , No Privacy .

[@SM-SaMo]

Great thought provoking podcasts Ezra. IMO Homelessness, inpart, in certain California cities really accelerated when big tech started expanding in surrounding cities of Silicon Valley in the SF Bay Area. As an example is when Google expanded their offices into the old military base in Alameda & that brought in Tech workers with high incomes that inevitably pushed alot of local renters out with their rent increasing a minimum of $1000. Google never offered to help the renters who became displaced nor did the city. There was even a physical fight at a city council meeting between Landlords, Renters & Council members. Landlords knew they could get a minimum of double the rent from renting to Tech workers. Same thing happened in Oakland even though some properties were under rent control; locals were pushed out.

[@IM2L84F8]

"Wow! This was horrifyingly difficult to listen to. The fact that both Ezra and Jerusalem speak so well and so very fast helps to gloss over their shared cluelessness. If you continue to believe that a home is a cure for acute drug addiction and/or mental health issues, it will only get worse."

[@Sourpusscandy]

They are propagandists

[@josephhuether1184]

I live in Connecticut and can say that there are nursing homes, residential care homes (congregate care), and other group homes that house “some” percentage of people with mental health issues, behavioral problems and substance abuse problems. Also there are secondary cities where, it you have a family and other nominal support network, there IS housing that can be procured if you can navigate the process. Without some form of “affordable” (government supported) housing, these people would be…well…”homeless” and probably “unsheltered”. We are far from “perfect”…or even…”decent” but there is a significant number of people with a roof over their heads because of government intervention who DO have mental and substance abuse problems. The city that is succeeding the best right now is Houston, TX. This is not because it’s a red state per se, but because housing is inexpensive relative to many other places in the country AND the city has worked to remove punitive barriers to obtaining shelter or permanent housing.

[@laed3520]

@IM2L84Fks8 - I agree with you 100 %. I spent most of this interview screaming at my TV screen. I don't think either of these two have ever spoken to a homeless person other than to say, "Sorry, No, not today thanks", to a panhandler on the sidewalk. I have a brother who had addiction problems who died homeless at -40 degs in Edmonton, AB while trying to get to Vancouver, BC in the fall of 1989. I also have an adult Son who is currently in an assisted living facility after a brain injury here in BC. My wife and I lived in a tent (in Campgrounds) while traveling to the West Coast in 1980. During my first job out here, we were still living in a tent trying desperately to find an apartment. Low, low vacancy rates in 1980. So I am intimately familiar with homelessness and some of the reasons for it. I lost my mind when Ezra quoted from a the New Yorker article about homelessness. How far is your head up your a*s to be quoting the New Yorker about homelessness. Michael Shellenberger investigated what they were doing in the Netherlands with their homeless population and that system is working. A bit of responsibility is required on the part of the client to receive help. It's not a pity party, homeless people need to grow up and want help and be willing to get their act together the best they can. The governments at all levels need to cooperate and get a plan and stop just throwing money at it saying they are doing something. Look around the country (or the World) and see what is working. Cuz this thing here... is not working. There, that's my $0.02 worth.

[@IM2L84F8]

@@laed3520 - How about the anecdote of the person that uses meth in order to not fall asleep because of safety concerns!

[@kaushlendrakumarsinha]

l

[@DavidJChief]

America actually has a rather narrow selection of acceptable ways for a person to live and an increasingly larger set of skills necessary to manage fitting in. When anything impairs one or more of these requirements, disaster ensues because social support networks to get one through troubles have been degraded or in many cases eliminated by the attitude that lending a helping hand is somehow encouraging further weakness.

[@jcbjcb2]

Career specialty vs location with (or without) extended family interim support.

[@jonhennemann4729]

The World does. Think they let people in Iran setup tents in parks.

[@hughquigley5337]

I thought this was a great video, and I really appreciate the detail that the guest went into about the study! I do think that big landlords and private equity firms have a much bigger role to play in this crisis, though, because at the end of the day there is a finite amount of land and these companies/firms/individuals/etc. know that land can only appreciate in value. What you and I consider as a basic necessity is nothing more than a financial asset to these guys, and they'd happily let people suffer and die from exposure to the elements just so they can earn "passive income". I think that decommodification of housing is the long-term fix to this collection of problems.

[@kindredg]

I second this comment. A big reason for the housing shortage is the short-term rental market. There need to be stricter laws controlling vacancies, short-term-rentals, and corporate owners who are beholden to "stakeholders" to maintain a return on investment. Somewhere along the line luxury apartment developers made the calculation that a certain vacancy rate is an acceptable trade off for being able to over-charge for rent.

[@hughquigley5337]

@@kindredg Thank you for voicing your support! Yeah, this is definitely a serious problem.

[@lauraw.7008]

49:29 sunbelt cities haven’t taken into account the needs and availability of water. Another component is the continually increasing divide between the haves and have-nots. The wealthiest continue to get wealthier, we have more & more poor, & those of us in the middle have to work harder & longer to maintain our housing and health care.

[@jonhennemann4729]

Let people not work and they will end up down and out.

[@DavoidJohnson]

Did anyone notice the mention of a solution. If it was there I missed it.

[@JamesJoy-yc8vs]

I've noticed, especially in the comments section, but also mentioned in the"Visible Disorder" part, 34:49 , I think there's a point that doesn't get addressed enough. I call it the "door with a sign on it fallacy"; the Idea that if there exists some official recognition *OF* a problem, then that problem ceases to exist. "The government has appointed a Committee To Debate The Study Of This Thing, so we don't have to concern ourselves." Which is often strewn with strawmen and too often commensurate with the lament "Why is nobody doing anything about this?"

[@davidbreed6708]

I was led to believe that I would get some good information about homelessness, however, this podcast was disappointing. The female spoke in such a way that I could not understand -- too fast, incoherent arguments -- I was unable to get anything from it.

[@kenerickson8836]

It would help me listen if the interviewee put pauses between words.

[@andrewlm5677]

There is a naïveté here in the suggestion that these homeless folks just need services and the problems are solved - the suggestion that these people are in their dire straights as a matter of chance and/or due to larger societal forces such that they are blameless is highly questionable. It seems to me that the kinds of choices that lead one to become homeless are the product of bad judgement and that no amount of money being thrown at this problem will lead to an improvement. These folks will destroy what has been given them and waste much of these proposed investments being made on their behalf. What is needed is for these folks to improve their behavior (and for people to be better educated such that fewer become homeless in the first place) - the generosity being proposed could very well prevent a change in behavior in the existing homeless population and make it more difficult to prevent more homelessness

[@RmeBraTT]

You want to use the word 'straits', not 'straights'. Peace to you !

[@bobloblaw10001]

Individual personal failings aren't enough to explain the dramatic rise in homelessness. But it does help individuals to ignore the problems of others and get on with their own lives. If you spend too much time worrying about other people's problems then most of the time it's just a waste of time and makes you sad. So, ignoring and dismissing the problem is a quite logical approach and works for almost any issue.

[@andrewlm5677]

@@bobloblaw10001would agree with you that not everybody has the same advantages and disadvantages and that random circumstance is a factor. My point is that generally, if you are making good decisions and exercising good judgement in how you use what money you have, you have a much greater ability to improve your situation and you’ve accumulated enough resources to weather the random bad times when they come. With that said, It is certainly possible someone becomes homeless due to circumstances they were blameless in - that person would likely get a lot of benefit from a helping hand. My suspicion is that is very much a minority of these cases As for your psychological analysis I think the natural response is to wonder why a stranger living a lower quality of life than oneself should be the topic of concern. How much time do you spend worrying about the millions of poor people in India and Africa living lives that we would likely find unbearable? My feeling is people feel guilty (likely been taught to feel guilty) for their natural inclination to not care and that guilt leads them to imagine the people suffering must be the victims of some injustice that needs to be righted.

[@bobloblaw10001]

@@andrewlm5677 rent and other expenses are too high, salary too low. It's simple math. You are spitballing.

[@evelynramos445]

Substances problems

[@SuperTonyony]

Workers should own and control the means of production.

[@RmeBraTT]

Most American jobs aren't production. Your model is already perfectly legal here, and already put in place by many businesses, by choice. Winco grocers is one of them, I believe (at least one of them I've seen in Washington state). Of course, this is but one example. A Nationwide mandating of your type of idea, however, can never work. Between High-Tech and AI advancements, the big big corporations will just squeeze out the human factor, which they're already beginning to do. And the tens of thousands of 'small businesses' in our nation, would just cease to exist, because those operations 'already' operate on very small budgets and profit margins. In other words, there'd be not enough 'profit' to share. They'd just close up and the communities would lose great local businesses to do business with. And, on a large scale amongst Big Business, that 'means' of production' would simply go somewhere else. bye bye USA. That's what they'd decide to do. They've already been doing it for the past thirty years. Peace to you, friend.

[@davissae]

Right now the City of Los Angeles has 7000 open jobs. They can’t find enough people, but there are 50000 homeless people on the streets.

[@dancoughlin7421]

You didn't mention that drug addiction is the largest driver of homelessness. I can't take you seriously.

[@twhite8308]

Letting people tresspass, camp, dump, build fires under signs that prohibit all of that is bad. Either laws mean sonething or they don't.

[@beemo9]

She talks too damn fast, slurring her words on jargon, making it impossible to understand her sometimes. Needs to work with a voice coach.

[@DSTH323]

Your guest would do well to slow down in her important comments. At times she spoke so fast as to almost sound chipmunk-ish. Ira speaks at the perfect verbal pace.

[@evelynramos445]

What's the gate substances

[@jonnygemmel2243]

In a neo con society you need to have an underclass to point at to demonstrate that non compliance ends in disaster. To be a “winner “ requires losers. Without changing that paradigm you simply only make incremental improvements

[@wasdwasdedsf]

what

[@andrewlm5677]

That is a ridiculous argument. That society is creating these poor people is not by design and is of no inherent benefit to the system such that continuing it is essential. We have a system where people make choices for themselves and bad decisions can lead to bad results - I would suggest that the common thread for people who end up homeless are a series of personal choices that harmed them. You can’t protect someone from themself The question is, how much should everybody else pay to address someone’s bad decisions? Also, is somebody who has ended up homeless going to be able to start making good decisions if given the opportunity or are you ultimately just paying them to continue on in their current state in slightly more comfort?

[@JJJRRRJJJ]

How can someone be so stupid? This is textbook conspiracy thinking. “Why do homeless people exist?” “Cuz THOSE PEOPLE across the aisle are sociopaths who WANT to see them suffer!” This is really, really dumb. Also, I would just point out… why is homelessness overwhelmingly concentrated in the _least_ “neo con” parts of the country? Name a single neocon crafting policies in California? Also, if we _were_ to get a bit psychoanalytical/conspiratorial here, a far more plausible conspiracy is that the homeless activists and far left socialists are incubating and enabling a steady supply of homeless people to use as their mascots to push for redistributive policies and social programs they’ve always supported. The far left anti-America crowd _loves_ to see crises like this as evidence that this capitalist system is a cruel failure (total nonsense). In reality, this homelessness problem has not been orchestrated by an evil group of puppet masters hell bent on f****ng people’s lives; rather, it’s been caused by an extremely naive and ignorant worldview which refuses to _force_ these suffering people to engage in treatment or else face consequences for breaking the law. This problem has absolutely nothing to do with housing prices and everything to do with open-air drug markets, addiction, mental health situations, and pathologically enabling policies.

[@jcbjcb2]

​@@andrewlm5677 ... @jonnygemmel2243's "ridiculous argument" is factual. However, how significant is this factor, is a question.

[@carlyb8434]

The comments on here are concerning with few exceptions. I.e. very reductive analysis. Americans are being bombarded with stressors from a lot of sources. Way too many comments calling out addiction and mental health. There’s inconclusive analysis about what percentage of those issues developed before vs after the person became homeless just as one example. It’s a multi tiered issue and home and job insecurity are just a few of the factors. For most people it’s a combination of several factors.

[@evelynramos445]

In line these are Americans

[@kerrybelgrave8594]

Humm....in the game of musical chairs, there's an authority figure who "organises" the continuous deficiency of chairs. This drives the motivation or demand of players to strive harder for the smaller and smaller number of chairs. Much like that, the deficiency of homes is an organised activity that drives increasing demand for the insufficient housing stock. That's what the game is about.

[@RmeBraTT]

The young lady on this program has never understood communication, and this is a HUGE red flag about her blindness to other people. She just wakes up every day and runs her little motor full-bore with no sense of awareness. Normal secure people do not talk like they're on Speed. I hope some friend of hers points this out to her. 'Any' radio/podcast producer should tell all their guests, before beginning the program, "Now, most importantly, let's slow the pace of the conversation down, so that we give the listeners a real sense that we're here for them and that we respect 'them'." I can't believe they haven't figured so fundamental a necessity out. How rude and obnoxious.

[@davidpayant8684]

A couple of thoughts. Many homeless cannot manage an apartment. These people need boarding houses and single occupancy rooms. Also most people do not want denser types of housing in their neighborhoods. The hatred of the poor is widespread and really took off when Regan was elected. What is needed is massive construction effort which the public will not support. Since taxing the rich is impossible it is hard to see where the money could come from.🐝🐝

[@wasdwasdedsf]

definitely sounds like someone who knows anything about this subject who thinks the name is spelled regan

[@wasdwasdedsf]

"What is needed is massive construction effort which the public will not support. " because 60% tax rate in california has worked so incredibly well so far, right

[@lauraw.7008]

@@wasdwasdedsfthe wealthiest don’t actually pay anywhere close to that. And as long as our federal government continues to allow more monopolies or oligopolies to form, we’re trying to provide stability with an increasingly unstable, un-democratic group of “ruling class”.

[@evelynramos445]

Went west and they got lost!

[@Lochsa89]

You neglect to discuss the prevalence of addiction among the homeless. They are not all just people that are down on their luck. Its absurd to think the homeless will bootstrap themselves out of addiction if you give them housing.

[@evelynramos445]

We had a person w homeless died

[@keithallen6504]

This episode was difficult to follow: she talks excessively fast, words just kind of blended into each other leaving little time to fully digest what she was saying.

[@evelynramos445]

For the sake it can be you

[@Bernard-fo2qo]

Is that female speaker on speed, methamphetamine, or just 9,000 cups of coffee??? Did they ever get to a CONCLUSION???

[@witwisniewski2280]

What about the role of employers? Isn't loss of work one of the first dominoes to fall in the loss of shelter? Our Capitalism is exclusionary. Businesses want only the very top employees, and wealthy customers. This makes most of society undesirable, or even a burden to them. Most of society, therefore, does not even participate in Capitalism. Safety nets for most people are insufficient because they are excluded from the main economic system. This is also the reason for widespread anger, resentment, and fear that manifests itself in our current political situation.

[@evelynramos445]

Medical and homeless

[@psikeyhackr6914]

This is funny. I never saw musical chairs until I went to kindergarten. I thought it was the stupidest thing I had ever seen. I would drop out in the second or third round and watch the nonsense. Why hasn't accounting/finance been mandatory in the schools since Sputnik?

[@evelynramos445]

Any family?

[@ronhfree]

Sorry, Klein & Demsas seem clueless

[@hughquigley5337]

I can see in your previous comment that you linked a video about a houseless person selling fentanyl... dude, that does not make you an expert on houselessness. Honestly it just shows how little you know if seeing one video makes you this confident

[@evelynramos445]

Especially if take yours

[@evelynramos445]

I called to save The NY Times

[@paulsaragosa371]

Ima hooked on the phonics Ohno batman were in a jam yah tada hahaha bad Guida cheese 🧀 stuff 8oomillion jobless Ohno Holly strawberries batman we are in a jam yah tada hahaha bad deals

[@evelynramos445]

Its a USA problem

[@evelynramos445]

Grandpaed taxes when all covered!

[@davidguerrero1636]

Why is she giggling through this story about homelessness?

[@jcbjcb2]

Answer: 1. she="Jerusalem Demsas is a staff _writer_ at The Atlantic" 2. Natural enthusiasm (mood uplift) to another person showing common interest. Notice how rapidly she speaks

[@davidguerrero1636]

​@@jcbjcb2 1. Okay...

[@evelynramos445]

Concentrated amount of people, born there?

[@gemeinschaftsgeful]

Musical Job chairs went overseas.

[@Sourpusscandy]

Houses musical chairs bought by “investors” running airbnb’s

[@evelynramos445]

Taxes yourselves

[@evelynramos445]

Covid19 included

[@kasondaleigh]

Mr. Klein sounds like his nose got stuck in the air.

[@lewreed1871]

Unlistenable.

[@DaniRaj666]

Gsus why she needs to speak so fast? Important and interesting topic but hard to follow and listen...

[@RmeBraTT]

OMG... ! You can say that again. She has never understood communication, and this is a HUGE red flag about her blindness to other people. She just wakes up every day and runs her little motor full-bore with no sense of awareness. Normal secure people do not talk like they're on Speed. I hope some friend of hers points this out to her. 'Any' radio/podcast producer should tell all their guests, before beginning the program, "Now, most importantly, let's slow the pace of the conversation down, so that we give the listeners a real sense that we're here for them, and that we respect 'them'. I can't believe they haven't figured so fundamental a necessity out. How rude and obnoxious. Peace to you, friend.