When the Metaphorical Becomes Physical | Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying

[@jacquedegatineau9037]

Brilliant people sometimes fall prey to a very subtle snare. Their gifts allow them to "explain" so much of the world they perceive that they feel the need to sand off the edges (so to speak) of anything that doesn't fit into their existing categories.

[@lulumoon6942]

Oh how I love this. 👍

[@lievenyperman9363]

Very well put but does this not apply to all people? Smart people will just have a more coherent model of the world they perceive which doesn't mean it is right of course.

[@thebenshowclips]

Well said, example: Richard Donkins

[@matthewvelazquez2013]

Excellent point.

[@andrewwilson9183]

So

[@kensmith8152]

I was disappointed, I saw the shroud of Turin icon in the corner of the ad for this discussion and I was really hoping the would have talked about it in their discussion. What better proof of where the metaphysical meets the physical than the shroud’s existence!

[@DentyOne]

Yeah, but that would require these men to believe God is more than a human creation, which they don't... and they seem completely disinterested in doing so. They sure do like to talk about their own ideas of God, though. They think their ruminations on the divine are far more fascinating than the myriad writings of believers over the last two thousand years. They think 'Man, it took thousands of years for us to finally get here, but now that they have us, we can finally explain to them what all this 'god stuff' is about.

[@kensmith8152]

@@DentyOne: I’ve listened to Peterson over the years and his talks at times seemed almost of faith, and other times just philosophical evolutionary opinions. Peterson is clearly sitting on the fence and never fully committing to either side! I think his sole reason for this is to sell books. I wish I had to talk to him personally, I’d love to point out to him that historically, the life, death and resurrection of Christ is incontrovertible. If he need’s to find the intersection between physical and the metaphysical it’s right in front of him in the Bible’s narrative in history

[@Beelzebubba1983]

I've never given much thought to the shroud. Our treasures are to be in heavenly things, not earthly.

[@KingM119]

You people clearly haven't listened to Peterson enough to know he is very much a man a faith

[@amycraig3956]

Thank you for saving me time. Deceivers everywhere.

[@steaveg]

It's fascinating to watch people try to reconcile the obvious reality of God with their a priori atheism/naturalism.

[@Epiousios18]

Materialism is a hell of a drug.

[@DentyOne]

It really is.

[@johnsmithers8913]

It's converging not on whether there is or is not a God, but on determining the "type" of God. The secularists seem to be now acknowledging that the structure of the Universe and its laws are behaving like a God. The question is now whether God is a clock maker who has left the scene or is constantly tweaking his creation.

[@GustavoAndresHerrera]

​@@johnsmithers8913 I like your analysis. I'll just point out that the "clockmaker" version has been disproven long ago (like, Aristoteles long ago!). God SUSTAINS creation in existence CONTINUOUSLY! I hope they acknowledge that the structure of the universe points to the existence of God (by definition God can't be "part" of creation). JBP is almost there.

[@Intellisecular]

@@Epiousios18 so is vicious circularity. Btw, wise Realists are not crude materialists, we're non-reductive materialists. See John Searle's book: Mind An introduction.

[@BillytheRed]

This is one of those things I've felt but never knew how to articulate. Kudos to you 3 for having these challenging conversations that equip you with the thought patterns and necessary diction to model them into a coherent thought for people struggling to lasso this beast. These are important conversations that make me feel more human than most things I experience first hand.

[@KimRobbins]

I have a great respect for Jordan Peterson and I do enjoy intellectual conversation. HOWEVER, many scriptures come to mind with these types of conversations. One scripture I thought about comes from 2 Timothy 3:7 which says "always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth." Humbling ourselves to the reality of a Creator will start the process for understanding our own depravity and corrupted state of being, thereby recognizing our need for the Creator to restore us to incorruption.

[@ylmzll]

Those words you spoke of can only be man made. All things are man made in this world despite what is out there naturally. And only the nature effects us. Only what is out there. So both the corruption and the notion of ''god'' or a ''word'' of it can only be man made. This is the most powerful story. A word created by us, for us, only if it is understood in the core of it, will be transcendent. What is man made will make the man more than what it is. The message is not about reality itself. It is about what would it become if we do things differently.

[@KimRobbins]

@@ylmzll I am not sure what exactly you are trying to say; however, I don't live from a place of "religion." I have encountered a living God and have a personal fellowship with Him. Many speak about what they DON'T know but I am talking about an irrevocable truth about what I DO know! Unfortunately, for many, if I told a person everything about their life, not knowing them, and attributed it to personal clairvoyance they would believe me. But if I told them everything about their life, not knowing them, and said that God, the Creator of the Universe, through Jesus Christ and the Power of His Holy Spirit has revealed it to me, they would not believe me. It is sad, but true. I would encourage everyone to seek the TRUTH and not lean to their own understanding. Just because we want something to be true doesn't mean that it is. We should seek to find the Truth then align our beliefs up with it.

[@Matitiyahu]

@@KimRobbinsAre you claiming to know everything about a person’s life without knowing them? Or was that just an example of something unbelievable to use?

[@KimRobbins]

@@Matitiyahu My point exactly. You say it's unbelievable but God can do ANYTHING! Why do people seek to disprove what they believe to be "impossibilities" rather than believe that perhaps it is possible with God? I have seen cancer healed, blind eyes opened, and yes, even the dead raised back to life. But people would be more comfortable saying it must have been a coincidence or some scientific explanation. Anyone who really desires to know the TRUTH needs only to ask from a genuine place and God will surely make Himself known to them. Then, they're spiritual eyes will open. (And there have been times when the Lord has spoken to me and to many, many others about people's lives, that only God could know -- not every person, and not their entire life necessarily, but enough for them to believe in Jesus).

[@Matitiyahu]

@@KimRobbins I see, thank you for your time.

[@isaacmckenzie5074]

"Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand." - Augustine These guys have it all backwards again - floundering around in the dark. Pray for them.

[@ClickToPreview]

That's about divine revelation, which Augustine clearly knew wasn't given to all men but to a portion.

[@pwnership3292]

So all the answers are to be found here? In the KZbin comment section?

[@andrewwilson9183]

By itself that epistemology is irrational.

[@Mooseman327]

@@andrewwilson9183 Precisely!

[@SaviorMoney-777]

LOOOOOVE listening to these two dudes talk to each other. They're both so in to it. Beautiful!

[@0xstuff625]

In regards to prayer, I really like this description: "As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are His children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part. Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant but that are made conditional on our asking for them."

[@TheLinkThruTime]

Keep figuring out that fine line Jordan, thats one of the greatest gifts you have. Thank you for teaching me.

[@elijahchesterthomas5334]

The thing about Christ is, he's too simple 4 overthinkers and at the same time too complex for dullards. It's never been about intellect. From the mouths of babes. The truth is that way.

[@torinfrancis7472]

exactly! its the perfect test for each of us and once all said and done every knee shall bow and every tongue confess

[@andrewwilson9183]

Knowing truth is all about intellect

[@maverickelbow50]

I know there is something more, but it’s not possible for me to prove it based solely on my experiences, you just have to have faith

[@tonyallen4265]

Blind faith solves everything. Very convenient. Jump but don't look.

[@AllanEMacDougall]

It can be established through logic that an eternal, uncaused, powerful, moral mind is the foundation of all existence. Blind "faith" is not the only option (Biblical faith, for example, is complete trust in a trustworthy being who has proven Himself), nor is it a good option for reasons we can all comprehend. And an obvious experience is not required to prove God's existence (though a variety of personal experiences may assist in settling our individual qualms or pointing us in the right direction). God is, and we can know this. Glad to discuss it if anyone is interested.

[@mickeymaddox]

‘Faith alone won’t sustain us anymore.’ An Atheist has faith. It’s ok. Service over Sin, for the Win! -Hapa Heathen

[@TheLinkThruTime]

It's the knowing, you know there is more. We call it the knowing. How is it we are able to feel what other people are thinking, how are there so many coincidences, songs come out of nowhere at perfect times. It's ourselves talking to us. It's a huge spiritual journey understanding your higher self and becoming that person. Do not feel bad, and do whatever you can not to feel bad, that's when we hurt ourselves and others. We have chosen every choice in our life. This is a projection of our mind, what we feel we create, so that's why we are supposed to have good thoughts. Take care of yourself, you are loved immensely.

[@solidaudioTV]

@@tonyallen4265 Maybe some people have a shallow or intellectual persuasion about God that could be categorized as 'blind faith' where they made no demand for evidence, but as someone who has spent time studying the Christian Bible, I've come to understand that true faith is not blind. I believe God is interested in developing a good sense of trust with us. I would actually argue that there is so much evidence to support God and the truth of the Bible - esp. if one is willing to invest himself in looking at it and proving it out - that it would make your head spin! Here are a few examples; There are myriads of historical proofs that match archeology and other history books. There are millions of personal testimonies. There are many scientific concepts & ideas about the natural world written in the Bible that match what we have learned over time. There are many prophetic predictions about peoples, nations, and events that came true many years later. There is also divine wisdom and instruction in the Bible that when believed and/or acted upon, can directly prove out its' integrity and insight. In other words, my own life and activity can be a living proof of whether or not God words are true. However, something which I recognized some years ago that I found even more surprising is the reality that human beings must develop forms of faith (aka: confidence, trust) if they are going to function successfully in the natural world, even if they don't believe in God. What am I talking about? Mainly 3 things - A) We must be able to trust in the words of other human beings about things we don't personally know firsthand (i.e.: parents, teachers, authors, doctors, engineers, scientists, etc.) mainly because no one person can know, see, or test everything. B) We must be able to trust in the testimony of credible historical authors if we are to have any knowledge or beliefs about what occurred in the past - simply because we weren't there. And C) We must be able to trust in the laws of the universe demonstrated from our collective experience and/or scientific understanding over time even if we don't understand how it works. One example of this would be flying in an airplane. Yes, I know some have a fear of flying, but most of us have developed a confidence in the fact that even though the physics of lift are invisible, the magic works every time we take a trip.

[@debifox6555]

You are all very brilliant people. I love listening to you. But you obviously haven't had an encounter with a living god. Those of us who have can't simply be dismissed as delusional or irrational. God is real; science isn't in competition nor is reason the only means of reaching conclusions.

[@joshuaball2102]

yes. or likewise an experience with the immaterial evil. Ive had crucifixes whipped at my head from across the room when they were hanging on nails. Theres nothing adaptive about coming into contact with a demon.

[@gary_michael_flanagan_wildlife]

Just like Russell Brand described, it’s a change within that has to come from God. I think sometimes the brain gets in the way of Gods hands. Let go and let God. I get why it’s a struggle for scientists and rational thought, but it just has to be something they experience on their own and they will get it. Let’s pray for them!!❤

[@abaker4692]

I fully agree.

[@aWitness33]

Amen. Science is the fingerprint of Gods handiwork. It’s quite brilliant when one ponder it all; there is no waste God used it all, usually to save us. It’s quite the love story. May He bless you all.

[@GitchWarrior52]

Dr John Lennox (Oxford)

[@bradfordbrucker]

There is a process called the "Five whys": when you try to explore a problem and its cause-and-effect relationships, you keep asking "why", you eventually get to the root cause, typically within five questions. The thing is, you can keep asking "why" infinitely (after you have "found" the root cause) and you will get to a point where you will say, "because God made it so"...

[@ClickToPreview]

Even "because God made it so" is incomplete, unless you believe there was NO reason.

[@hose9853]

This idea of people winning over their audiences seems to point to the debaters having a sense of humor / social intelligence. In my opinion, that's a good starting point for attracting people to discussions about serious topics. Whether the debaters actually tackle the problem can be the hidden "gem" for people proficient in the discussion topic.

[@benjaminbleacheriii1724]

What has never left can not return for the fact "IT" will be here forever 😇😇😇❤️

[@andrebarendse177]

Conversations like these excite me.

[@jimmcfarland9318]

I've experienced phenomena, not just revelations. I don't care if you or anyone believes me, because these things happened for my benefit, or for the benefit of others - tangible things. This, in my opinion, doesn't make me special, but makes G-D special and worth submitting to. I can't say the same for any human authority, as it is a too-human trait for human authority to become authoritarian.

[@andrewwilson9183]

Doesn’t mean the source is God

[@Iceboy_Ixe001]

Thank You Dr Jordan Peterson 👏

[@izeisler]

I find this conversation incredibly elitist. They act as though they are above everyone else because they 'know' God is not real, while at the same time patronizing those who believe. On one level, I can be thankful that this type of atheism doesn't shout me down or directly bully me. However, this mindset seeks to reap all the benefits of God without acknowledging His existence. It's reminiscent of the Tower of Babel-believing we've transcended God through evolutionary understanding. They claim to believe in 'God' but deny the source, leaving them with a powerless emptiness that has lost its saltiness, good for nothing but to be trampled underfoot."

[@ClickToPreview]

I see it as more of a powerFUL emptiness. We seek to understand, to KNOW, and when we get a grip on some of that through science (particularly about this "physical" reality), we feel somewhat powerful, as in, "Ah, we have THAT figured out". But for what ultimate purpose? Uhh... that's where you will simply get a quite sad feedback loop. We now know THIS. Okay. Now what? We USE it. Okay, the knowledge is USEFUL. But for what ULTIMATE purpose? To figure more stuff out? Around and around it goes. But all we are REALLY doing ultimately is DISCOVERING things about something SOMEONE ELSE BUILT. If you aren't focused on THAT, It's completely EMPTY knowledge ultimately if it doesn't point to attempting to understand WHO BUILT IT and WHY.

[@joeparascandalo6989]

I believe you have 'misread' the conversation: Peterson for one is definitely NOT an atheist, Weinstein is science finding reason to believe 'GOD' does exist. As I hear the conversation; they are both objectively trying to reason the two: belief vs non-belief (intellectually).

[@brussy1]

This is the reason these conversations aren't had more often. There is a crowd that, respectfully, will not accept any version of the divine other than "man in sky." We all need to be able to stand back and take a deep look at things and appreciate each other's perspectives. If we are all made in his image then why shouldn't we? If we can do this with honest intent, nothing can stop us from finding the truth. The only gripe i have with modern religion is that too many men have tampered with the words, translations and meanings. So i find it hard to act as if it's God's word when in reality it's men's word's. Potentially wicked men. If you were his adversary, why wouldn't you try to intercept and alter his communications? I don't understand why no one talks about this possibility?

[@izeisler]

@@joeparascandalo6989 I understand both of these men’s journeys I have been listening to them on and off for years. I am not casually coming to this conclusion. I understand that Jordan Peterson is not an atheist, but he seems resistant to fully embrace Christianity.

[@joeparascandalo6989]

@@izeisler I would suggest by reading the comment above from @brussy1 might be akin to Peterson's view of Christianity and religion. From my reading and listening to Peterson's view, he attempts to pursue the true divinity of the words brought down to our times, escaping the human bias to the message.

[@imnotanalien7839]

WOW! The continuum, that was really interesting. Thank you Bret for discussing it in a way that people who have not studied biology would understand. (that’s me). Great discussion.

[@rebeccawhitney3539]

ThannQ for this conversation.Both religion and politics are human constructs designed to interfers with our connection to our source.

[@DurandGarcia]

God is NOT a “thing” among other things.

[@Quekksilber]

God is Being Himself.

[@stewystewymc3929]

Yeah god is just a fictional concept people invented to make themselves feel special

[@johndimick1767]

Putting God into words is like putting music into lasagna. It's quite a stretch.

[@lievenyperman9363]

@@johndimick1767 "The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao." - Tao Te Tjing / Lao Tzu -

[@stvmx73]

Well it was great to hear Heather talk up 😮

[@soundknight]

8:56 This is what I meant by "Love is the only thing that never dies, it lasts for ever, once given it cannot truly be taken away." This is why we 'Make Love', this is why we struggle to express the depth of our 'love' when our children ask us...

[@MaraKatria]

Where the ideas converge! Absolutely exciting. PS: Peterson Academy rocks! (:

[@techthyself]

He understood the finding, he had not find anything, he was able to understand it, he was chosen to share it not to claim it was his.

[@Dorin_Azril]

Thank you for everything Dr. Peterson.

[@ValidatingUsername]

1:45 Prayer also tends to be explicit “coming out with” whatever your dreading or struggling with in front of your core relationships who likely will work to ask around for solutions and pray on it themselves.

[@enfacedeglace]

I say simply this: there is more to life than meets the eye. Those of us who know - know, but explaining how we know is... to say the least...difficult.

[@stewystewymc3929]

you don't know. You delude yourself into thinking you know

[@lynnetowne9076]

I would liken it to explaining colors to someone blind from birth. If they are given their sight after hearing about this phenomenon, it all makes sense. They must otherwise just accept accept the idea of colors as a fact they cannot themselves confirm, or they can seek confirmation from other trusted sources. Or they must reject the possibility of colors and remain willfully ignorant of that facet of life in their denial. I agree, @enfacedeglace, with your statement.

[@enfacedeglace]

@@lynnetowne9076 thank you. You have explained it very well.

[@enfacedeglace]

@@stewystewymc3929 and THAT is why you do not know ❤

[@InfoArtistJK]

"Living as if there is a hell to be avoided is much smarter, more intelligent, and always wiser than hoping there isn't." -- InfoArtist JK

[@dino_rider7758]

Orion Terriban says to the effect: 'imagine trying to explain ALL of reality in a way that EVERY member of your society could understand in such a way that was OPTIMALLY effective. It would have to be very relatable, metaphorical, emotionally provocative, etc. thats what religion is. The optimal set of instructions. Not literally true per say, but effectively true to hear and believe.'

[@Tenneseejosh]

God is incessantly seeking to find His lost sheep. The good Shepherd does not sleep, He does not rest, He does not quit. All the sheep need do is consent to be found. Surely goodness and mercy shall PURSUE me all the days of my life.

[@nicholassanders527]

The reason it is so hard to draw the line between the metaphorical and the literal is because you shouldn’t ultimately. You’ll give credence to one over the other and you’ll have a tyranny of explanation. On either end you’ll get someone you can’t see the other when in fact they are the warp and woof of our comprehension in time.

[@justinm4497]

We're all proud of Mikhaila 👍

[@beaanderson6488]

Regarding prayer, in the 12 step programme there is something called the two-way prayer/ “listening for guidance” it is an individual practice-there is nothing erudite about it.

[@douglasMcAlpin]

Again, I AM THAT I AM and I AM in the land; Juneau Alaska.

[@AdamPrue-de5tw]

I've always believed "Poe" got it right," life is but a dream within a dream" .... man is capable of dreaming! Just ask the test results of the "higs/bosen " LHC. Lovely use of the platform as always.

[@GloriousFrancia]

It would be interesting if you could have a discussion with David or Trunnis Goggins sometime

[@Mooseman327]

The nexus of the completely physical and the completely metaphysical is the centerpoint of the symbol of the cross where the horizontal axis (the physical) meets the vertical axis (the metaphysical). This is where the esoteric Christians called "the Rosicrucians" place their rose. Our "job" as humans is to find this balance point and try to maintain our place there, remaining connected to both the vertical realm of the Spirit and the horizontal realm of our relationships to everything on the physical plane. It is a very difficult task and we err all the time (that is, we "sin" or "miss the mark"). We can get pushed and pulled from this centerpoint either vertically or horizontally. We can become either TOO spiritual or TOO physical. Therefore, our life is a continuous process of re-centering and this is where prayer, repentance, and forgiveness come in which is the basic tool we can use to recenter ourselves. It would be highly instructive to read Valentin Tomberg's "Meditations on the Tarot" where he utilizes the cross as his basic symbol for understanding just about everything.

[@danestevens1]

It's a pretty sad existence thinking you are the epitome of intelligent life. We have all seen society degenerate in a matter of decades as soon as God was removed from the equation. Societies only prosper when we submit to the King of the Universe. You think evolution got us to where we are?

[@Alias-f6x]

the world is sad

[@sparx9017]

You are right, but which God did those societies believe in before their collapse? Seems like the only thing society needs is a belief in a higher good. The story that describes that higher good seems to be arbitrary.

[@drowzy2309]

​@@sparx9017wrong. The problem with any other way of thinking is that you're relying on human understanding and morality to coexist, which never works. Even these highly intelligent people in the video can't exactly agree on these topics, so even if we magically raised all of humanities IQ by 100 points, we still wouldn't live in peace, because it's not possible for a flawed species to achieve perfection without a perfect God.

[@stewystewymc3929]

Yes evolution got us to where we are. Religion is just an evolutionary trait that has overstayed its welcome

[@stewystewymc3929]

What is sad is thinking that this absoloutely mind bogglingly incomprehensibly massive and grandiose structure that is our universe was created by some omnipotent being specially for you, just a random sophisticated collection of atoms less than a quark compared to this structure you inhabit. Cant think of anything more arrogant and egoistical.

[@justicetaylor6957]

Forgive me if I had missed some important context that would refute my comment, but immediately after establishing that Biology in particular is among the most poorly understood sciences, and that its study has truly just began, and that we are operating largely according to 'stories that fill in the gaps', it is used as an authority throughout the entire conversation. Both to describe other sciences, and is held as the means through which we understand such a grand and lofty topic such as religion and God? It seems that the 'hierarchy of values' and logical sequence of assumptions has been inverted. Participating in such a fundamental error is what turns the wise into fools. All things were made by, for and through the Word. The Word of God is the only basis upon which the world and God can be known to mankind. There is no other foundation but this, the Son of God, who makes God known to those who humble themselves, cease vain babbling, vain speculations, and pursue the Truth in and through Him alone. As such, the study of the natural sciences can and have only come after accepting logic, reason, truth, and goodness. This can only be done, and established, by way of Jesus Christ. Creation, History and Revelation testify to this timeless truth. If there is error in my reasoning (which is not intentional) please show me so I can improve and communicate in Truth.

[@Quekksilber]

The modern project tries to achieve a metaphysical headstand: to explain the very highest (God and the supernatural life of grace) with the very lowest in the order of being: matter.

[@DavidUebergang]

@@Quekksilber There is nothing wrong with finding God in nature ey (you'd expect the creator's fingerprints so to speak), but the foolish thing would be to expect nature to FULLY explain it's creator, or to simply assume there is no creator because of 'evolution'. THAT is filling in the gaps.

[@alannz68]

Do we need others to inform us of the existence of God, when he's within us?

[@Virtual-realityISold]

I resoect yall 3 the most

[@Scatup]

God helps those that help themselves.

[@nicolinewsom7179]

The his shows the truth of how our strength is also our weakness…

[@Fellowseeker]

Peterson is a truth seeker, he seeks the highest good. He acknowledges the transcendent power and truth of love. His journey is bearing extraordinary fruit. He is moving forward with the grace of God

[@The_Lord_has_it]

John 14 29 "And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.”

[@albinoadrianocordeiro9929]

This conversation would have been way more useful if you guys actually discussed the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin or the Tilma of Guadalupe.

[@JD-ij8bz]

Yes ! i've been trying to say EVERYTHING IS A METAPHOR and all beliefs are religious

[@agecoochek-bo2qr]

Interesting opening. As to the void, the abyssal and it stares back as Nietsche said. Like a great vally of mountains needs an affacing man of God.

[@normanwagemann2673]

The "Story of Reality" by Greg Koukl would be a great place to continue expanding your thinking on the topic. The part of the discussion that is missing is the reality that God does not give us an out as to whether or not He exists (see Psalm 19). Also, the historical Jesus is evidence enough to show us the reality of an eternal God. After all he said, "If you have seen me you have seen the Father."

[@lianaschill6132]

“The Logic of the Universe”?? How would physicists define Logic? Is Logic better defined mathematically /numerically or linguistically ( words, ideas, concepts)? I have worked with physicists who believed in God.

[@ClickToPreview]

Logic is the USE of words to define something that is unfalsifiable, i.e. to speak reason. But let's be honest, logic is a REFINING principle for HYPOTHESES of HUMAN BEINGS. Humans come up with something that SEEMS "logical". Other humans refine it to be more clear. And even more humans come along to refine it even more, until it is agreed upon by a CONSENSUS. That STILL does NOT mean it's ultimately TRUE. "LOGIC" is a PROCESS, and it always will be for those of us who are NOT GOD.

[@annelizeprinsloo7327]

This is so much the way I have thought since I was really young.I have always felt very old when I was young,and now that I am old,I feel too young,in my spirit?To add what you were saying about heaven and the everlasting life,where you said evolution/the continuing of your genes/bloodline etc..Does that not connect with reincarnation,where the same soul/spirit continues on,in the same family tree?I have also always felt that, to agree AND contradict you dr Peterson,is that we are all related/connected,the Lakota says 'mitakuye oyasin'.We are connected,part of and is,like everything that is on earth or the universe,the higher power/God that created everything.We are just starting to get a glimpse of this in our spiritual/and or physical evolution.But if we are to believe in this,we have to believe in the other side, we can say it is evil/the devil,I do not know.Only that we are now being bombarded with distractions like never before.Everything is to keep us from learning what and who we are essentially,and to keep us from connecting to it.Previously(in my twenties) I thought that we are just too young in spirit or to closed off in spirit,but now I feel that we are being held back by an evil/malevolent force.All the rules of society that we have always followed/and known, was a knowledge that was handed down in our animal brain.For short,nature.We actually have always known what is the right thing to do.But now there is this huge deluge of contrivances,which really brings home that the 'devil' is putting a spike in the wheel.

[@jamesgall475]

Jesus Christ is God ❤

[@tun6006]

I don't think you understand at all the conversation that took place in the video. Weinstein and Peterson effectively are instantiating a biological/psychological/evolutionary cause for why the notion of God exist. Peterson just effectively took the position that he does not hold a Christian view of God not anything approximating it.

[@idiotidiot5821]

Job had it worse. He was a mere mortal. Jesus was God and would revert back to God so he wasnt really sacrificing much unless hes completely given up godliness to be human. That would be the ultimate sacrifice.

[@clon1122]

​@@tun6006you're responding to a bot

[@jamesgall475]

@clon1122 no bots here and Jesus Christ is your God too ❤️

[@jamesgall475]

@tun6006 that's cool but Jesus Christ is cooler and I understand that 😎

[@melroycorrea7720]

It also shows that the structure of reality and the logic of the universe is open to the concept of God. But God will always remain beyond our grasp, so that there's always room for faith, as far as our existence in this world goes.

[@oldschoolsaint]

Brett is such a smart guy. I just wonder whether he understands that his naturalistic take on reality is based on a fundamental faith every bit as mesmerizing as the faith employed by theists. For Bret that faith is extended to his belief that the world is orchestrated by evolutionary forces. To him, every phenomenon under the sun has an evolutionary explanation. The problem is that he has no way demonstrating the truth behind his world view. It’s a pure act of faith.

[@andrewwilson9183]

Have you heard of Science

[@oldschoolsaint]

@@andrewwilson9183 Yes. What exactly is your point.

[@andrewwilson9183]

@@oldschoolsaint He is often stating scientific knowledge

[@oldschoolsaint]

@@andrewwilson9183 And you think scientific knowledge is all there is? You don't think there are other forms of knowledge?

[@andrewwilson9183]

@@oldschoolsaint I do believe there is more to knowledge than the physical. However, you can't simply contradict physical scientific knowledge, or probability because you think another explanation is more romantic.

[@cooltpmd]

As a scientist myself, I can't get past Brett's use of retrospective evolution. It is that very bias that skews much of his logical conclusions. All you know about dreams ... truly is that they are dreams and they exist. Because you can think of a way that they are beneficial does not make them an evolutionary process. The mind does not get to decide what aspects of benefit it will randomly "design" evolution. I personally think the concept is being used way too loosely ... and is exactly the losing language that the new atheist wants you to use. The fact is that the case for atheism is quite weak, when removed from the public square where all media and academia jump on to support it. From the origin of the universe and every physical law that breaks, to the rise to order throughout the cosmos (and every physical law that breaks), to the random assembly of inorganic matter to organic compounds (and every chemical law that breaks), to the random assembly of simple organic matter to complex organic matter to biology to macro-evolution ... its all an intellectual gain to trade the spiritual realm (which cannot be scientifically measured) for the law of large numbers (a ridiculous postulate of "everything is possible, given enough time"). I have no shame in my logical mind keeping "God" into these critical conversations until something with real met is ever actually explained by science and not the religious atheistic version of science.

[@stewystewymc3929]

Youre not a scientist sweetie, stop roleplaying

[@stewystewymc3929]

@@anti506 he's probably just parroting whatever script of pseudointellectual sciencey sounding hogwash his preacher fed to him. He doesn't have any clue what he's babbling on about

[@andrewwilson9183]

A. The existence of God does not contradict the reality of Evolution or Abiogenesis, or any of it. B. Evolutionary biology is widely accepted science.

[@andrewwilson9183]

Stop assuming that Modern Science and Natural Theology are in conflict. That assumption is the very reason why Atheism is so popular. Because of people like you!

[@santialtamirano8621]

Pure gold!

[@stephaniechan4714]

Have these guys read any Aquinas or classical theistic philosophers? Their takes might work within the scope of the questions they are asking, but eventually all inquiries lead to the big questions of, “why anything?” aka is there an unmoved mover? Bret says God doesn’t “need” to exist (within the context of his question) but theists would argue God needs to exist for these questions to even make sense. Just curious if they’ve done their due diligence regarding that line of thinking.

[@not2tees]

Having ideas about God is no substitute for experiencing God. Drugs I don't recommend, but fasting on water only . . . and listening to John St Julien videos, will show anyone an amazing method not using reason at all to coming to absolute conclusions through experiences, not reason. No disrespect to Jordan, Brett or Heather, who are quite amazing and valuable to our world.

[@marcognudi664]

Feelings ≠ God

[@AllTenThousand]

Peterson's wild hand gestures as he refers to his "academy" of video essays - when he has already posted his complete thoughts of Nietzsche and Dostoievsky on the internet ad nauseum. It would be nice to see some personal development reflected in his thinking over the years - as opposed to level of salesmanship and a polemicism that would make Hitchens blush.

[@20Ludvig]

In my Shamanic work, i have seen how idears come into being. that is exactly what peterson discribes in this video, the words arent even very different. one of the hinderences i think, lies in the understanding of "real" From the materialist point of view, things are only realy if they have a form, made of matter. So you could say that the things that are not made of matter, arent "real" Yet the unreal world is huge, it shows itself as formless, sometimes images and archetypes. The tecniques i use, are much a kin to the technique that Carl G. Jung would call "active imagination" From a shamanistic point of view, it would be called, traveling in the spirit realms. These places does not live up to the criteria given by materialism to be "real" yet the places excist, and have profound effects on our physical and mental life. Maybe we need a conversation on the redefinition of "real" or to atleast allow the possibility that something can be considered real, even without a material manifestation. just some thoughts

[@CytherX]

I really wish Jordan Peterson would interview Christian Astrophysicist Hugh Ross from Reasons to Believe and Tim Mackie and Jon Collins from the Bible Project Videos and podcasts

[@DentyOne]

He's not ready to consider the objective reality of God the Father. He would rather wrestle with metaphors. Metaphors can be shaped to your own will. Adonai cannot.

[@CytherX]

@@DentyOne Then I pray he will be made ready by the Lord Amen

[@ronjohngameon]

Fascinating!

[@wanton1234]

the easy way to put this is like R Dawkins. That's how I roll. I am a cultural Christian, the ideology minus the supernatural and bronze age laws is how I roll.

[@dw5523]

The problem here is the idea that a physical mechanism abrogates the existence of metaphysical reality. They can both exist in the same space. We may be able to explain dreams from an evolutionary standpoint as regards their physical nature, but that does not somehow remove their metaphysical nature. The earliest scientists explored nature to understand God better. All our scientific exploration is for nothing if it does not draw us deeper into a relationship with the metaphysical, that is, the supernatural reality of God; the great unmoved mover.

[@jamesmandahl444]

I am on the edge of hope and despair, so reaching to God in this position is the insane, some might say deluded, hope that a hypersomatic love more real than you or I is out there which makes the suffering worthwhile. I will not whine to you, but let's just say not everyone will have a successful life that fulfills you and carries you through their lineage. Some are left behind, or have fallen through the cracks or have failed utterly and are grasping for that hope. I am one of these. I do love and hope for others to be fulfilled. To be fruitful and multiply. But that hope does not exist for me. I can vicariously feel the joy that others have written in words or sang in songs, but my body and walk in life is such that I cannot be materially successful not just to the next generations but even from day to day. So I hope for an insane hope. A hope that can only die in me, but lives outside of me and is beyond me. Yet when I do as that Hope wishes, that that Hope can interpenetrate and fill me and the whole world. A hope more than metaphor. A hope more than idea. A deeply material, metamaterial, transdimensional and ineffable Hope. And yes I am speaking of the natural, preternatural and supernatural. I cannot find joy and solace in ideas alone. Just as we all have a God shaped vacuum in our hearts, we cannot live on bread alone. After all, generations even perish. Though we hope and then build the best world for future generations we also face death, the final curse, and beyond. No discipline no matter how righteous and fulfilling, can replace the High Hope of the undiscovered country.

[@themuthachannel]

Consciousness… The source has many names…acknowledging and sharing with the Source…co-creating We are souls!!! Here to RECEIVE!!! Both of you are bringing the non-reality is where we originated… this physical world is to learn how to elevated our consciousness..

[@streglof]

I think in talking with Dawkins, it would be pertinent of Peterson to clearly distinguish between the literal, the metaphorical and the anthropological.

[@nicolasdazefilms]

Peterson introduced me to Christianity as useful back in the day as an atheist. Nowadays when I listen to him, I find myself mentally sighing most of the time. He seems to think it's all metaphorical and he seems to think he has the right interpretation. Christianity is true in a literal sense Jordan. Not merely metaphorically/psychologically. Christ is Lord, not metaphorically, but in reality. Jung and all of this psycho nonsense is just that - nonsense.

[@DentyOne]

I love you, man. 100% yes.

[@ignatiusTH2]

I agree with a huge amount of what you are saying and I too came on the same path as you but I wouldn't say it's all nonsense, it's just that if you say it's all metaphor you are missing the most important part.

[@johnbollow5497]

Agree

[@Quekksilber]

Christianity is true. On all levels.

[@DavidPereiraLima123]

Impressive. Ignorant and yet so articulate, there's a first for everything.

[@jzbman]

LORD, please reveal yourself to Bret and Heather!

[@Walter-os6ne]

What is so good about high? As to say, happy being where one is.

[@carlyellison8498]

Beyond the Sun, beyond the Sky, to where the real questions Lie.

[@spindoctor6385]

I am amazed at the comments in here. So many people are so rusted on to their belief that they make what should be athiest strawman arguments perfectly valid. They can't take a step back and appreciate the conversation.

[@johnkayak10]

19 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[c] 20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

[@johnbollow5497]

I love all of these thinkers, but if they posit a closed system, without a literal transcendent being who as a historical reality, came into the world in the person of Jesus Christ, and by whom hundreds of eyewitnesses saw as a raised-from-the-dead actual person; that pulls the axis from the entire spinning globe of their discussions. Also, it gives rise to a belief that one can attain to holiness without an actual, interpersonal relationship with this Christ, the perfection of which is mediated on his sacrifice, not on your efforts. It is these efforts, once thrown away, that frees one to live in love for this person rather than, a turbine of works. I want to believe that Jordan knows all this, but I think he marches around this thing called an interpersonal relationship with God, unwilling to surrender his very gifted intellect to what that person might demand.

[@ClickToPreview]

There's no way to verify that there was a "literal transcendent being" of whom "hundreds of eyewitnesses saw as a raised-from-the-dead actual person". Especially the first part. The second part happens all the time and CAN be verified. People DIE and then come back to life ALL THE TIME through various means (and some means not obvious to you and me), and have for all of recorded (and of course non-recorded) history. I understand what you are trying to say, but YOU need to understand that there is zero reason for ANYONE to ASSUME a closed system OR an open system. WHY? Because it's one thing for human beings to POSIT something, and quite another for it to be TRUE. I don't think TRUTH in it's entire form is FULLY understandable by human beings, which is why there is such divergence in thinking WHILE we are human.

[@TheLinkThruTime]

The more we try to figure out the more we put into our head the more we make. Do we need the knowledge to be able to feel? Sometimes learning too much makes it not good. If you go looking for the answer you already do not understand.

[@dakota-sessions]

If it's so natural to believe in these spiritual/metaphorical things... why have I (as a person never raised with it) never believed in it or felt anything toward it in my life?

[@dakota-sessions]

Never an answer. And if there is one, it's simply "you're in denial" gaslighting. So dumb.

[@Mike-bn7kr]

I find it so intriguing that ancient history probably 98% or more cultures believed in the spiritual realm. Having the concept of God, multiple gods and invisible beings. The interacted with mankind. But today is very scientific world. There are so many people who are disconnected with. The spiritual realm altogether they call themselves atheists. But they look at Outer space the Earth itself nature, and cannot see a divine being that created it all. Yet there is never been something that appeared from nowhere that’s been significant in human history that was not explainable through natural means. How do these people comprehend the human brain? or any animals biological functions is just happening out of random accidents. How does chaos turn into perfectly functioning biological beings without a designer? I tend to think of a video game and the rules that the game is played by everyone understands that there was a designer who created the game. But when it comes to humanity, somehow these extra smart people believe for some reason that humanity created itself out of nothingness without something that designed how it works. Ancient people understood there had to be something more that put together and created what humanity must be. Even though their gods seemed extremely human in their behaviors. But then you hit the place where Jesus appears in history, his is unlike any other God figure that’s ever existed. a God that wanted to save people from their own irrational, problematic sinful nature. By becoming sin itself and dying to repair the problem. That humanity created in ancient times by eating of the forbidden fruit. That he has now become the new fruit in the holy Eucharist in a Catholic Church that can repair our nature and bring us back in union with himself. There’s no other God who has done such a thing prior to Jesus. With his sacrificial love dying for humanity to save it. Because he loves it so much that he was willing to endure becoming humanity to save humanity. I don’t know how these over educated people have such difficulty seeing that looking at nature reveals God himself through the amazing complexity of nature. How can these people be so blind to something that’s so amazing and so incredible it’s beyond our comprehension. So many death experiences being captured in books today of peoples experiences of things that they don’t fully understand, but know to be completely true with evidence from science to prove something happened to them, but yet their bodies seemed to be dead for a time. Perhaps education actually removes the ability to think clearly about reality? Anyway, something to think about.

[@sevenseconds8652]

Ti amo Gesù, ti amo mio Signore 🙏❤🙏

[@TheLinkThruTime]

Yes the consequences. Its not that there is a moral standard, its that every one of our choice have consequences. Depending on what you feel is what consequence you get.

[@TheLinkThruTime]

I guess that's why they say ignorance is bliss.

[@dgasino]

Would be great if you invited Stephen Meyer to join the conversation

[@dakota-sessions]

Before we tried to hard to resurrect religion, we understood this scientifically. It's called a Placebo Effect.

[@Gabriel_J33]

To anybody possibly feeling uneasy about this, they go into the psychological aspects of the bible because theres utility to it. Theyre not saying they dont truly believe in an after life or a god, they just have no concrete evidence for it so theres no point in discussing it. Jordan Peterson has shared stories of his paranormal experiences, his visions of something beyond, and the unexplainable occurences of his wife knowing the date she would know she didnt have cancer. This is an academic podcast so of course theyre only going to speak about the utility of believing in a god

[@johndimick1767]

Bret at his most interesting.

[@soundknight]

Captivating

[@georgem5589]

I find him uninteresting. Smart but smug. He can't believe in a creator, instead is convinced all this was created by nothing. Then, once his world gets cancelled by people with his same world view he suddenly wants to score points with those he belittled not too long ago. Nope, not interesting.

[@yowwwwie]

I'm a Catholic mystic so I experience the world differently than what is being expressed...though I do understand it. I experience the essence of God in everything, everyone, every thought, feeling... emotion....Is IN God. Always... יוי

[@Quekksilber]

Be careful with calling yourself a mystic.

[@Nebraska-x1m]

The way we shake off negative vibes goes throw out earth and possibly the cosmic flow??. If we bury our negative vibes we'll regret it. The only way to grow by this and beat this is to change your vibes within your mind and our bodies.

[@DentyOne]

I've never heard Jordan Peterson even HINT that he has read a single piece of apologetic material. The world is filled with books containing fascinating scientific and archaeological insight into the Bible, it would absolutely set his mind ablaze with possibilities. But no, it's not worthy of his time because it doesn't refer to the Creator as a metaphor. He's supposedly 'wrestling with God', but seems to be totally disinterested in the reality of His existence. He wants to wrestle a metaphor. It is a most pitiful and fruitless wrestling match. His dependency on pure naturalism is all he's really wrestling with.

[@Gary_Pinise]

How tf did you know that?? 😮

[@arvaneret_329]

Sounds like you don't know Jordan Peterson very well, or watched enough of his Yotube videos. He's not ignorant about the New Testament or the Bible as a whole, in fact he's done lectures on the Bible from a psychological perspective, such as his conferences regarding the book of Exodus. He's not ignorant about Jesus Christ but he does struggle at an intellectual level... Instead of judgement and prejudice, he needs prayer.

[@heinomartlaisk281]

If we consider a person as a 4D being, which I understand he is, then he will continue to exist even after he leaves the 3D world, and every moment of your life will remain with you forever.

[@Ismellpopcorn]

The amount of brain power I used to try to understand what they were talking about would’ve powered an entire city and I still don’t really understand what they’re saying

[@annettemunnich3533]

I wanted to hear about the Shroud. There is new evidence. The Shroud was in the promo.

[@KyleWarras]

A wise man once said: Atheists start arguments because they can’t win fights, believers start fights because they can’t win arguments.

[@CoolmoweeMusic]

when I go to Spotify for Joe Rogan - I can see the video - why cant I see these?

[@SaggyJ]

Only some podcasts have available video on Spotify unfortunately

[@connputer]

He claims the self is unimportant then goes on to endorse his explanation of the unknowable, have faith in Jesus and you will be saved, have faith in good and you will defeat evil, have faith in the spirit that rests in us all and you will see the beauty of God’s creation

[@kleisclissold8800]

We shouldn't be here!!!! Seriously??? How do you answer Dr. James Tour or Dr. Stephen Meyer on the complexity of life, or the nature of consciousness?? Christ taught the first principle of religion is FAITH and faith is a choice...

[@InfoArtistJK]

The Shroud of Turin is the actual image of Yeshua/Jesus. But it was deceptively used in this thumbnail image for the video.

[@ShogunBear]

The idea the man and God are co-creating each other is also an idea expressed through may eastern philosophical practice, the idea that human existence is the dream of a creative force looking to understand a life with limits. The mere fact that we are technically hallucinating reality also lends itself to this idea. We exist and experience therefore 'God' in whatever form your imagination permits. The fact that science is nowhere near quantifying what constitutes Conscious Awareness lends itself to the idea of a level to existence that cannot be quantified and therefore becomes the realm of God and Heaven, in that it defies our ability to define.

[@ShogunBear]

Forgive the obvious typos

[@ndog1234765]

I'm sorry, you made a great point, but I must discredit it because you typed "may" instead of "many."

[@ShogunBear]

I will have to cry by myself in the shower until the hot water runs out out of shame and self hatred. Thanks for that.

[@stephenbender7593]

If God is looking to understand then God wouldn't be God.

[@TheLinkThruTime]

In watching some of Jordan's recent videos. He talks about how science is using this knowing to calculate possibilities. They are using exactly what you are saying to find more answers and it's actually quite fascinating.

[@AngelaMarraccini]

That’s why vervaeke is the closest. He does tai chi he tries to have an experience outside just his rational mind

[@axelpissou1263]

We can all accept that we are living in a simulation. Why can't these great minds then grasp that 'base-reality' is not another physical world: it is only consciousness. Is it too simple an answer?

[@Quekksilber]

No we can't.

[@AquariusGate]

10:51 in a strange sense Brett is describing some context of society as God, a devotion that can't be explained. Same with trying to be a worthwhile member if society; it is a presence we would rather be in than separate from.