When the True Storm Raged: A case for the Stormhawk Clan

#eldenring #lore #eldenringlore #Stormlord #Stormhawk #Nepheli
Theory about identity of the StormLord. Nepheli's right to Limgrave comes from her descent from the line of the Stormhawk Clan, who was ruled by the Stormlord.

[@davidhunter1555]

Nepheli rules. When she takes the throne of Leyndell and says she'll ease your burden if she can, it just sounds like your average fantasy warrior farewell. Then you see a gold sign for the battle with Godfrey, and after so long apart, she returns for your greatest battle against her ancestor (or kidnapper). She was true, just, and brave, and somehow she survived this terrible world. "Let the scars I carve remind them that I am Nepheli Loux, Warrior"

[@craneology]

The tornados spin in a clockwise direction, which generates a downward force. The tornadoes aren't holding Farum up, but rather holding Farum down from flying upwards. Odd.

[@swordierre9341]

Havent watched the video but it could be serosh, or Radagon/aka the morne champion. EDIT: wow on point about everything, you're the first person besides me, that ive seen notice the Parralas between Nepheli and the Morne Champion, ive been saying this for months. I think Nepheli's questline is a retelling of Radagon's story. THe more Champion was Radagon, hence the lionel missbegoten we find guarding the grafted sword. The grafted sword's shape also vaugly alludes to Radagons crosshatch. (there's a popular reddit post that elaborates further on why Raagon is the Morne Champion). Radagon rebels against godfrey but regrets it, hence the "anger and regret" mentioned on the grafted sword, just as nephli rebels from ofnir, and then tells us she regrets it. Godfrey defeating the stormlord, could be Godfrey's defeat of Morne Champion/aka Radagon. I thinks there's way more evidence for this once you start looking for it. The engravings found in 6:41 and 6:43 look like radagons crosshatch sigil. Ne[heli gives you the Arsenal Charm, derived form the grafted sword, another clue to the morne-revenger. The warrior set has red hair on the waist, which is a clue to Radagon, And "Stormcaller" church has a radagon statue. Theres more stuff i have to say but its very interwoven into my own personal head-cannon so its hard to elaborate on. You did point out some stuff that i had never considered, i never caught the bit on nepheli's axe that implies she was not originally from the bad lands, that and her diollogue at the village of albinarics def implies she could've been originally from castle more, and might've been there before or during the rebellion the original morne battle. So really good catch on that.

[@drunken-master7904]

This was really well done. Thank you for the great theory and clues.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

Awesome! Thanks for the feedback.

[@Parrisnights]

This is the exact same thought process I had on the Storm Lord situation and I appreciate all your hard work for this project! May the algorithm gods be on your side

[@puzzleheaded6195]

Good to see you’re back. I’ve been heavily invested in this part of the lore recently myself and found a lot of interesting trails that I’d like to share with you. A lot of people claim the Golden Order started with Godfrey but I believe it began in the Crucible, the age before the Erdtree. The fact that Maliketh is a high rank, BeastClergymen, and the shadowbound of Marika suggests she had a religious affiliation with Farum. Gravel Stone Seal- “ Sacred seal made from Gravel Stone thought to be an ancient dragon scale. Enhances Dragon Cult incantations of the Royal Capital. The worship of the ancient dragons does not conflict with belief in the Erdtree. After all, this seal, and lightning itself, are both imbued with gold.” Godwyn also founded the ancient dragon cult which, judging from the prayer book being found in Farum Azula, began there. It reads: Ancient Dragon book Prayerbook - “Prayerbook of the capital's ancient dragon cult. **A lost tome that never reached the Lands Between**. Contains red lightning incantations.” This text is the only one I’ve found that clearly draws a distinction between what is and isn’t in the Lands between. Farum Azula seems to work under its own hemisphere since the Sun is constantly present and stuck in a stasis most notably seen in the Great Bridge leading to Maliketh. The “denizens of another world” text found on the Numen Rune could very much refer to Farum Azula. In the Deeproot Depths, the Finger Reader Crone refers to him as “Lord Godwyn - a Scion of the Golden *bough*” The word bough translates to a main part of a tree or in this case “true lineage”. In the Japanese text, the same npc calls Godwyn the “Prince of Gold”, The true heir to the Seat of the Sun aka Farum Azula(evidence being Destined Death being sealed there, all the skeletal Beastmen using the Sun Realm Shield, and of course the Sun being constantly present.) There are interesting implication with Lannseax. She was a dragon that turned into a human to commune with knights which is exactly what Fia does, aka her sister Fortissax should you choose to believe it. The Deathbed companion had to originate from Farum and since Godwyn found the dragon cult with them and his roots being in Farum, he must’ve had the same ability. It’s the only explanation why we see a human version of him in the CG trailer and whatever he is in the game. Marika must’ve had this ability as well judging from the Mimic Veil. She is even depicted depicted with what looks like a dragon/serpent tail behind her in her statues with traces of gold mimicking similar to the Ancient Dragons. All this paints the Numens(Ancient Dragons) as the the shapeshifting counterparts to the Silver Tears, except Gold. Going back to Godrick, in his boss fight dialogue he claims: “Mighty Dragon, thou'rt a trueborn heir. Lend me thy strength, o kindred. Deliver me unto greater heights.” Anything related to the dragons is and was considered divine at one point until everything crucible related had been shunned from history. Godwyn has a heavy association with dragons and it’s said he wielded “Golden” Lightning. Death Lightning Description- Incantation that channels the power of the ancient dragon Fortissax, now corrupted by Death. Strikes surroundings with a **storm** of Death lightning. Inflicts Death blight upon foes. Charging extends duration of the **storm**. It said that this golden lightning was wielded by Godwyn, who befriended Fortissax.“ Commander Niall served him and he manifests the same kind of Lightning. It’s also strange that Godfrey is not mentioned once to have participated in the War with the Ancient Dragons and the Sword Monument in Altus detailing the routing of the dragons is the only one not refereed to as a “Defense of Leyndell”. Read these texts: - (Veteran's Armor) “Old armor that has seen many battles. Niall was a lone survivor who commanded spirits to defend his long-passed master. This aging general could not die, nor did he have anywhere to fade away.” - (Veteran’s Prosthesis) “Bladed prosthetic leg enwreathed with the power of lightning, instead attached to the fist. Commander Niall, veteran of Castle Sol, offered this prosthesis in exchange for the lives of defeated knights held prisoner. He went on to lead these men as an army of no nation.” - (Oleg Ashes) One of the two knights known as the Wings of the Storm. After his banishment, he attracted the notice of the Grace-Given Lord and later, having slain a hundred traitors as the Lord's hand, Oleg earned the hero's honor of Erdtree Burial - (Engvall Ashes) One of the two knights dubbed the Wings of the Storm. Despite his banishment, he rejected the invitation of the Grace-Given Lord, instead keeping watch over a masterless castle for many years, gaining renown as a hero of the fringes” Given that Godwyn is the only demigod that fits the description of “long passed”, founded the dragon cult, all the evidence in Castle Sol, and wielded the same Lightning as Niall. Who else would Niall have had an allegiance to? I’d highly recommend Tarnished’s Archeologists video on Godfrey and the crucible. It shows there is strong evidence that he was not the original master of the Fortifiedt Manor, meaning the Stormveil Architecture had to have been made before his time. Also given the evidence that Godwyn founded the dragon cult who all likely began with Placidusax with his Golden Lightning seen in the background of his arena in the “true storm” which still rages in Farum Azula because Godwyn is only half dead. I’d like to add that the damage or “mottling” seen externally on Stormveil, can be seen internally that tangibly couldn’t have come from the outside. This suggests that Godwyn’s curse(weird skybox in Fortissax bossfight) is manifesting itself on the castle. Strangely, the same mottling can be seen on the Marred Leather Shield. Everything I’ve said is by no means definitive but there are a lot of trails that lead to Godwyn and his true importance to the story and leans on him being the offspring of Placidusax, aka the Storm Lord with the Stormhawk King likely being his Regeant similar to Serosh.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

I've seen most of Tarnished Archaelogist's videos, he was an inspiration for me. The transition from Crucible/Dragon Age to the Age of the Erdtree is something I've been going over for months. I have a video planned about Placidusax, specifically, speculations about his consort.

[@puzzleheaded6195]

@@theeldenconspiracy9451 Awesome. Got that to look forward to 👍

[@jackeinessontjader5291]

Are you saying that Fia, the person who wants to help Godwyn lead Those Who Live In Death, is the same person as Fortissax, the ancient dragon who ”fought long and hard against the Death in its companion” (this companion being Godwyn)? Seems kinda counterintuitive ngl

[@puzzleheaded6195]

@@jackeinessontjader5291 Why is it counterintuitive? Godwyn is already leading TWLID as the Prince of Death. The Mending Rune Fia gives you returns death to its proper form within the Order: “The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored.”

[@emismpunk]

Definitely lean into the theory that Nepheli is of the Storm king’s lineage and not Godfrey’s child. It’s not unusual for those conquered, that the women and possibly children would be integrated into the victors tribes. (Vikings vs the Norman for example) So while Nepheli might carry the Loux name. It’s entirely possible she is either a descendant or even a direct child of the storm king. In the event of the latter, she may have either been too young or possibly still in the womb and thus unable to know such detail. It’s also possible the mother deliberately hide the information so as to protect herself and Nepheli. Since having a true heir (regardless if Nepheli/her ancestor was legitimate or not) could definitely be seen as a threat to Godfrey’s own rule to Stormveil. Or maybe Godfrey knew and adopted Nepheli/ancestor as his own? Keeping your friends close but enemies closer? Pity, or just plain compassion towards children? While not really fromsoft’s style. I hope future dlc might shed some more light.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

While not Fromsoft's style, it sure is GRRM's style. Taking "hostages" in medieval times was done with the intent of mending relations between two families, to make war less likely in the future. It does seem strange from our perspective. The way GRRM uses this trope in his fiction is meant, I think, to be a critique of this practice (Theon Greyjoy *cough*). Sadly, I don't think there's going to be any thing related to Nepheli or the Storm lineage in the DLC. It will likely be about Miquella and Marika and the true origins of the Erdtree etc. But who knows? Fromsoft is known to defy expectations once in a while. Glad you liked the video.

[@launcelotdulake8075]

Wow, very interesting observations. The theory that Nepheli is descended from the Stormlord is particularly compelling to me. At first I was doubtful, since Nepheli is Tarnished, which means she must be a blood descendant of Godfrey or his tribe, but she could still be the blood of the Stormlord on her mother's side. Think of the implications! You've earned a sub. Keep up the good work.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

Yeah, "Godfrey's kind" could mean many things. Kin mainly means family. But in a lot of contexts, people can have family who aren't blood related, such as in marriage and adoption. So I think it's not that far-fetched.

[@vortiger9807]

Amazing research and theory! Castle Morne have always seemed like it had a lot more of lore outside of “misbegotten go crazy”.

[@mendor3]

Hey man just wanted to say that the thumbnail is pretty good so i didnt even notice you were smaller yt channel when i clicked but also you speak very softly quietly and your mic(or mic settings) dont really compliment your voice and its hard to listen to

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

That's cuz I used my phone lol. I'll be on the lookout for a good mic.

[@daveshif2514]

@@theeldenconspiracy9451i recommend hyper x, even the headset is really really good and only like 40 bucks. also look into voice meter software banana is the free version and it improves voice quality tons.

[@Mr-Onesimus]

So glad to see another video from you! Keep up the good work

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

Thanks! Feels good to get these ideas out there.

[@Perditions]

I appreciate that Elden conspiracy knows his interpretations are his own. I think it's apparent though, that Stormveil Castle hasn't taken damage from outside, but instead, the mottled shield description spells out the unique affliction of the castle and denizens. It shouldn't be ignored.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

There are massive clawmarks across the outside of the castle. Also, parts of it seem burned. But okay. The damage to Stormveil can have multiple sources.

[@josephramirez7188]

AY ELDEN CONSPIRACY! good theories on the entirety of Stormville castle! fyi, the evidence with the Banished knights just learning the Storm clan weapons arts has more logic in it. they could have learned those art from there conflict with the storm hawk clan with Godfrey, (like maybe with the dragon communion?) giving context to other knights having knowing those weapon arts other then just Oleg and Engvall. Hope to see more videos!

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

Thanks for watching! The Banished Knights are certainly an enigma. I plan on making a video on them in the future.

[@combatrobot1443]

I do wonder how Godfrey’s connection to the Crucible Knights ties into all this. There is a Crucible Knight in Farum Azula-maybe in Placidusax’s era the Crucible was still venerated, since it predates the Erdtree? It’s also weird that Godfrey goes out of his way to call himself the First Elden Lord if he was a servant of Placidusax-himself an Elden Lord-in the past. Maybe he’s just trying to keep up appearances.

[@Writh811]

The age of the Dragons predates the Crucible. Based on Tarnished Archeologist's findings, it looks like there was an era of a Great Tree (era of dragons) but the Great Tree was cut down. The stump started growing sprouts and was called the Crucible. Human's culled the sprouts and grafted a golden bud onto one of them and that grew into the Erdtree. There are some statues in game that convey this time line. The middle statue in the Church in Stormveil shows a human standing in the Crucible. There is a later statue, I believe in the fortified manor or Stormveil keep, of the same guy with a single sprout in front of him in the Crucible and then just statues of the guy and the sprout with the golden bud. The logic is the Great Tree made dragons, the Crucible made a mess, and the Erdtree made grace given people. Godfrey likely called himself first Elden Lord because no one was alive that remembered Placidusax. Death was still a thing in his time so society could lose knowledge. My theory is the meteor that hit Farum knocked over the Great Tree. It would be great to say it was the Elden Star, and that's how how humans found the golden bud to graft onto the tree and why the miracle is at the trunk of the Erdtree underground. That sending the Elden Star was the "mistake" that the 3 fingers are referring when they talk of the Greater Will making a mistake. As if the Dragons had done such a good job the Greater Will wanted to send them a gift but it went horribly wrong. But I'm not convinced that the dragons pre-date the Elden Ring being in the Lands Between because of Malekith's arena.

[@ValentinParkourGaming]

You are absolutely nailed it ! your take on the lore are more accurate than most people gg ! and thank u Also I think it is a bit of a shortcut to say that Godfrey was a servant of Placidusax. I didnt really see how you are making this connection.

[@sidewaysfcs0718]

The reason Godfrey's Throne room artstyle inside Stormveil and his Axe having similar features to Farum Azula's artstyle and weaponry is becase those both were previous NOT Godfrey's. They were Serrosh's. The Throne itself is a later addition to the castle probably, it shows a Tree of Jesse with people being literally born from the Tree (a later innovation of the Golden Order), but the motiffs on the ground are older, they indeed fit with Farum Azula and the Beastmen society. Serrosh also has a 5-fingered Mace, the Beastclaw Greathammer, dedicated to him, and to the 5 Fingers as a Symbol of intellect once granted to the Beastmen. Serrosh's personal Axe (now Godfrey's broken Axe) also has the same exact style of carvings/symbols on the axe-blade as the Beastman weapons, and the same texture/sheen of metal. Serrosh is the Lion depicted in and on Roundtable Hold, Castle Morne and Stormveil, Serrosh's relief is also found right behind Godfrey's statue in the Throne room, he is eclipsed by it. This shows that Godfrey's statue was a later addition, when the Lord of the castle changed. This is also a common practice in medieval times. Serrosh is a Lord of Beasts, most likely Stormveil was his castle originally, and Serrosh served the Storm Lord, as his Lion Motiff is literally everywhere, and even in other castles with similar archtiecture to the others of this era, Morne, Sol, Roundtable, etc, albeit the golden embellishments that make Stormveil unique are a later development, when Gold was used to signify the new Order, and Godfrey made this place his home. Conclusion: Serrosh was defeated by Godfrey, but was later taken on as a war-counselor by him, Godfrey did this to gain more power, instead of staying in permanent war with Serrosh, and the Banished Knights who were also tied to the Storm Lord/Storm Hawk, he conquered and took them in his Order under Marika, making allies from previous enemies. Their weaponry and banners are also all over the castles of this era, and Stormveil. We also know where Godfrey's original axe was, it's now stuck in the Table in the Roundtable, and it has an oxidized bronze (green) coloration, so this has been there for quite some time, the nearby swords in the table were the Crucible Knight's previous weapons, this table marks the moment in time when Godfrey became Elden Lord, and he then took Serrosh as a war counselor. As this castle, the Roundtable Hold, was also previously not his, but under Serrosh's command.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

This is Tarnished Archaelogists theory. There isn't any way to refute these claims, because they are speculation. SO I will answer with my own speculation. So here's why I disagree with the notion that Serrosh was in the Lands Between before Godfrey and ruled Stormveil: Serrosh's armor, when we see him, is very similar to Maliketh's armor and the amor of beastmen we see in Farum Azula. Now, maybe he changed his armor after Hoarah Loux defeated him? I don't buy this. I think the similar armor shows he was of the same culture as Maliketh and the rest of the beastmen from Farum Azula. I think the association with the mace and other bestial incantations supports this because we get them from Maliketh. Also, Stormveil castle's architecture is distinct from Farum Azula. It shares many features with Castle Morne, Castle Redmane, and Fortified Manor, and the many forts. Now all these places span the entire Lands Between, and all these places have lion symbols. Did Serrosh rule this entire area? I don't think this is the case. Many Banished Knight-flavored areas show hawks as well. So was there a Giant hawk in charge? I don't don't have an air-tight explanation of why the lion symbol is so widespread, even in places we know were before Godfrey's time. But we shouldn't immediately believe someone simply because they have an explanation. This also applies to my video.

[@pantiskitchen]

Dude u are awesome keep doing vids!!!

[@blacksunserpent]

The only thing that can support this theory is that birds in our world evolved from reptiles (aka dinosaurus), which can lead to "dragons --> hawks" situations. But it has major flaws in it, such as Ancient dragons - able to use storm/red lightning, while modern dragon (Agheel and such) are not, and modern dragons are clearly devolution of Ancient dragons.

[@patrickdelagarza4924]

Very well put-together video for such a small channel! Keep going at it dude

[@coryharoldson6092]

I liked it! Thanks for your hard work. I'll look forward to your next one.

[@nbmoleminer5051]

I wish we had an actual Banished Knight/Ancient Dragon Covenant.

[@memoriesofgreen6088]

Really good stuff, glad to see you're back

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

Thanks for watching!

[@DustDemonTwilight]

this seems very plausible actually, the only thing i have a gripe with is if this was so long ago, around the age of the erdtree's start, why was the damaged to stormveil never fixed ? it's been a LONG time.

[@Letwoo67]

Godrick hid from Radan in Stormveil, according to Kenneth height.

[@sultanalzabin6247]

great video to be honest. i think godfry was one the storm knights based on what he is wearing and i dont think at first he was with marika. he fought along side the banished knights against the crucible knights until he lost and went rouge and became marikas consort. subscribed

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

Very little is known about Godfrey. But it is important to point out that the Fortified manor in Leyndell was initially a Banished Knights Stronghold, from what we can tell.

[@Xandros999]

@@theeldenconspiracy9451 If Godfrey was allied with Placidusax, I think the Banished Knights are his peeps, and where we find them in Farum Azula could be where they originate. Or at least the most ancestral origin that we can see. It could be that they are not native to Farum Azula, but they seem to conduct themselves as if they belong there.

[@revenge3265]

To the point of architecture not carrying over, Godfrey had his entire personality somewhat altered (Serosh keeps his bloodlust and things that aren't very royalty like at bay). You could argue that these alterations didn't stop there and as such. Granted, I dont think he's the Storm Lord, but the point against him can be explained away IMO.

[@Moss_and_Such]

Like your take on the lore! Hope to see more videos from you.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

Thanks! good to see feeback.

[@seracris8357]

Very cool and intereting theory, good vid!

[@myfavfoodisglue]

Vaati needs to take some pointers from you and tarnished archeologist. You guys actually care about the quality of the evidence instead of just spitting out some random theory because it sounds cool. Keep up the good work.

[@chowderman8888]

I think your onto something I could totally see a dlc where nepheli calls on the true storm and it like the one in farum azula turns back time and we go to the time before the erd tree. That would be so cool and it would give us all the answers we need

[@whataboutme8206]

I wanted to say on this video I love your channel and love the videos and I was wondering why your new video is for kids since I wanted to comment on it as well

[@twistedoperator4422]

The Stormhawk axe alone is worth it Lol

[@drewpool4537]

I just found your channel recently. Love the content! But brother, your volume is all over the place throughout most of your videos. Just pointing it out, jic you weren't aware.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

Yeah, still trying to find a way to filter out pops while maintaining a good volume.😅

[@cyberninjazero5659]

I like this theory but I think 12:40 is an unfair characterization of Godfrey/Horoah since even Malenia Blooms the Scarlet Rot when she's beaten and we know that she absolutely hates and loathes it, furthermore when defeated he still acts respectful and courteous by saying that your "Strength befits a crown" the Crucible Knights and the Roundtable are a further indication of his character, he's a man that believes might makes right, who respects his fellow warriors enough to sit equal to them, and that he is also willing to abide by the deals he makes, we have no indication of him being any type of Machiavellian schemer, deceiving people to spread conflict or him ever betraying his oath (though, he couldn't as Serosh seems to have been permanently grafted on him). I think it's more that he loves and thrives in battle that doesn't preclude him from being the type of person to engage in the massacre described but it is a bit more than saying he's a senseless sociopath. Which I think might answer the final question, of this theory, why would a bloodthirsty warrior like Horoah spare the life of a child and more so even go so far as to somewhat claim her as his own? Because he isn't purely an animal and does have a sense of restraint, but one far lower than most, it's possible that someone else from Horoah's clan happened upon her but ultimately the question remains. How and why does she have Horoah's last name when she was adopted by Gideon? 18:40 Yeah that's a good explanation, a closed circle, Horoah pillages Stormveil, a lone surviving heir faces him in his last chance to do so, fails and he takes the heir's daughter, perhaps out of respect for his strength if not genuine concern for a girl who lost her family and is orphaned. Ultimately he doesn't raise her (given that she's old enough to remember the massacre she'd probably resist him as a father) leaving Gideon willing to have a girl with such powerful potential under his care. 21:00 Wait a second that description says "Storm Aerie" and links it with the Dragons, sounds like this "Storm Aerie" is the homeland of the Stormhawks and they've been linked to the Dragons through this. Given that this was patched out, I think originally Storm Aerie and Farum Azula were the same place during earlier phases of development but as you noted the Architecture of Stormveil is too different from Azula to be continuous, so they were separated. I think it's clearer to refer to the Stormhawk homeland as Storm Aerie to differentiate it from the Dragon and Beastmen realm of Farum Azula, given that we can more or less point out the probable location of Farum Azula on the map (northeast of Caelid, the Beast Sanctum is the only part of it left on the map) this is important because given that most Banished Knights settled in Stormveil it's clear that in the earlier build they made it as far as the shore but had no ships and in the new/later build we can only assume they got lost and didn't know where they were going. This is important because their various locations in game show that they did get scattered, with some being in the church of Dragon Communion, (closer to Farum Azula) and some making it all the way. I think the Banished were Dragon loyalists (their armor states that they "remained knights despite territorial losses") who came to admire Godwyn. It makes sense, he was the one who allied the Golden Order with the Dragons, it explains the presence of Banished Knights at Castle Sol. Alternatively they were Godwyn's Knights, the war with the Dragons was described as being particularly bloody and difficult, they could've been disgraced for losing ground in the war and sent off due to being too accomplished to strip of rank, this treatment leading to a respect of the dragons they fought, though I think this theory is less likely

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

I think it's a mark of From Software's great storytelling ability that you've completely bought into the Golden Order propaganda. "...he's a man who believes might makes right, who respects his fellow warriors..." You should know that believing 'might makes right' excludes any concept of honor or respect. This is why, instead of losing as a Lord, losing while upholding the ideals of his oath, Hoarah Loux muders his own chancellor and declares "I have given thee courtesy enough." He views this honor and nobility as a limitation and reverts to his barbarity. He says "Thy strength befits a crown." because the player has killed him. He lost his grace, lost his life, and now has nothing left. His admition of defeat should not be taken as some mark of respect. I don't think this is an unfair characterization, I believe it's accurate to what we see in the game. I never meant to imply that Hoarah Loux was a 'schemer.' If anything, I believe he was the one getting played from the start. Characters are allowed to be complex, and I am astounded by how layered Elden Ring's characters are even with very material available. If Hoarah Loux was truly a Lord, and thus worthy of respect, he would have died as a Lord, not as this rabid dog willing to rip your guts out with his bare hands. Or if you think behaving as a rabid dog when you are losing is honorable, then you don't believe in honor.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

@@theeldenconspiracy9451 "Belief that might makes right excludes any concept of honor or respect" that's quite simply just wrong, it makes things into a stratified warrior society where those with the most strength are held in the highest esteem. Which we can poke holes at but that doesn't exempt it from still being a concept of honor and respect, I.E in such a society who shows themselves to be strong shows themselves to be honorable and worth respect. So just plain wrong on that one, we can look at warrior societies throughout history like the Vikings who were famed for their pillaging to see that yes, even in such societies concepts of Honor and Respect arise. Back to him unleashing his full power Again Malenia who receives far less criticism isn't held to the same standard despite the fact that her Scarlet Rot doesn't only effect herself but the world around her as well. Fromsoft has repeatedly had characters who wish to avoid some sort of fate until they are defeated and come to embody it in a moment of weakness. I don't think Malenia blooming means that she doesn't want to be free of the rot and by the same token I don't think Hoarah can be simplified as having just abandoned his oath out of convenience. Both characters have to be pushed to their limits to remove the limitations they've imposed on themselves. Another example would be Morgott and his Omen blood but that at least is clearly an accident. As to the question of Honor it's often a mark of honor and respect to fight without restraint and in a one on one confrontation, to fight alone. It's certainly more honorable than worrying about getting your clothes dirty or your hair messy which is disrespectful to the opponent. As for the excuse that "he's just admitting defeat" No if he wins in that phase he says "A Crown is warranted with Strength" the bosses tend to stay true to themselves when they die for example Rykard says "No one will hold me captive. A serpent never dies. Ha ha ha...", Or Mohg who says "I can see it, clear as day! The coming of our dynasty! Mohgwyn!" It is certainly a mark of character to admit that you gave it your all but your opponent was better when other bosses in game provide a contrast to that. So the question becomes 1) ok if Hoarah is following a belief system is it that of the Crucible (as exemplified by the Crucible Knights) 2) what degree is it still believed in the Land's Between and 3) to what degree is he heretical to it. To get back onto Malenia even she has some belief that strength is at least part of what makes a Lord "Your Strength, Extraordinary... The mark... Of a true Lord" Again a distinction is made between the purely vainglorious characters and those with some type of code. Hoarah's dialogue implies a genuine belief in might makes right which I contrast with Rykard who is purely absorbed by ambition. Malenia's dialogue further implies that this belief is somewhat part of Land's Between society. Now we see that Hoarah's views on Strength alone aren't what condem him in the eyes of say Golden Order nobility but his lack of refinement, as others have noted the Golden Order places high value on being refined and elegant, ironically Hoarah's more beastial fighting style is what would condem him, for massacres we see things such as Omenkillers and the D brothers. Showing that the Golden Order still engages in such behavior. Even Miquella's embrace of all the persecuted and oppressed groups is seen as his dissent from the Golden Order. It's comedic irony but it seems that Hoarah's heresy stems entirely from his fighting style/clothing for being too animalistic (I.E close to the Crucible). This argument is hard to have as we both have to admit we are using conjecture, for my part I've avoided using any dialogue from his first phase since he's still trying to act like a Lord. We have descriptions of his Bloodthirst that we can use but, as to a look into the inner workings of his mind, I've used what's available to make my case and I hope my opening salvo at least presents the case that even a "Might makes right" society can form belief/value systems even ones based around the mighty and how they should be treated. I'll close by bringing up the character of Rykard as contrast, Rykard is unambiguously a monstrous individual responsible for many atrocities that we know the direct details of and his beliefs I think are ment as a dark reflection of both Radahn and Godfrey, Radahn from what we know made no pretentions to hide himself he just didn't have the same animal nature he was just a powerful battlemage that earned the respect and loyalty of his men but he was ambitious enough to want to be Elden Lord purely because of that. I can't make any claims on how his mind works due to lack of dialogue other than he respected both Radagon and Godfrey. Rykard shows the other end of their extremes a man so absorbed by his ambition that it literally consumed him, he was a terrible person before the Shattering and only got worse afterwards. Since Godfrey being Hoarah Loux is a plot twist/reveal of the end game we know little of how he acted as his real self other than that he was "bloodthirsty". We also know that for whatever reason he didn't stop acting like Godfrey until after he reached his destination with the rest of the Tarnished, and then presumably started acting like Godfrey again the moment he was regiven Grace.

[@theeldenconspiracy9451]

@@cyberninjazero5659 What you're describing in your first paragraph is concequences of the victors writing the history books. Hoarah Loux conquered an entire continent, he then had the freedom to tell whatever stories he wanted about himself, because, who would object? As to your pointabout the vikings. yes, the vikings thought themselves to be honorable. But what about the English or the Dutch? To them, the vikings were barbarians. You have to consider perspective here. So the key point of my last comment is, "If honor means anything." Regardless of how the game might use the term, if we are going to create some concept of honor based on how the word has been used throughout history, the most positive example of the concept, it would be this: There are things more important than mere strength. If a warrior was honorable, they would fight for a purpose, not for it's own sake. And if given the opportunity, they would die for their ideals. Godfrey's catchphrase, "Strength warrants a crown" contradicts this. To believe in honor would be to say "Wisdom, Mercy, Justice, Intelligence, Temperance. These qualities warrant a crown." (Very Christian). What is Hoarah Loux fighting for? That he's willing to kill his own chancellor before declaring defeat means victory is more important to him than the ideals of Godfrey. In the end, he really didn't believe in the restraint(Temperance) which the beast emblem was meant to represent, and eventually broke his vow to not let the bloodlust overtake him.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

@@theeldenconspiracy9451 Alright I think the first part of your response is shifting the goalposts but the second brings it together and clarifies at first I thought you were confounding Chivalry with Honor. I'll put my response in two parts 1) Perspective, honor is a value deeply tied to the cultures it arises in that's why I talk not only about Lands Between society but the society before it, that of the Crucible which Hoarah Loux would've been born and raised in, you seem to be trying to get an 'objective' view of honor or at least a modern one, I'm trying to hold the characters to the standards of their societies and their own words/standards 2) "Fight for a purpose" that's the weird thing I think he is fighting for a purpose, to become Elden Lord again, I say it's weird because Hoarah could have just ignored the call of grace and left to be a mercenary in the Land of Reeds and live a life of battle as he'd love to do. Why he comes back is a mystery to me, if he purely saw lordship as a burden why would he seek it again? Is this out of some loyalty to Marika and her plan? I don't know. Another reading is that he so truly believed that Strength befits a crown that in a weird way he saw it as his duty as the strongest to seek the greatest crown, we can only speculate but I think it's easy to argue that if all he valued was battle he had other options, he knows becoming Lord will make him miserable yet he persists, there's something to a character like that, a belief, a code of conduct, whatever it is, I think putting this into consideration might help get my point across of why I think it's unfair to say he's acting out of convenience. For a man who loves battle alone convenience would've been to run off to the war torn Land of Reeds and battle there to his heart's content. Finally on whether or not he broke his vow, honestly I found it odd that he kept Serosh on his Back at all after being exiled. I'll speak to my own perspective on this one, as far as I'm concerned the vow was nullified when he was stripped of Lordship. Since you brought up history being written by the victors I have to bring up that most of his conquests were after he took Serosh on his back, meaning I get to bring up his behavior during the first phase, it wasn't "Golden Order Propaganda" that Godfrey acted like a Lord that's how he behaves when you meet him face to face given that you'd have to face multiple lords to get to this point in the game you can easily contrast how the other lords behave with how he behaves, indicating that when he held his vow he was more lordly than most nobles. "...Long and hard didst thou fight. Tarnished Warrior. Spurned by the grace of gold. Be assured, the Elden Ring resteth close at hand..." Even Morgott, the last Demigod loyal to the Golden Order could only bitterly scorn all challengers as traitors. Ultimately I think Hoarah Loux/Godfrey is a conflicted character torn between his nature/early beliefs and his beliefs after Marika. The reason I think that is that he has to know ruling over the Lands Between means presiding over a peaceful realm with no opponents on the horizon, which is what made him miserable the first time he was Lord. Anyway what did you think about the other parts of my first comment, The Banished Knights as possible Dragon Loyalists and Storm Aerie as the homeland of the Storm hawk clan?

[@nathanjohnson1871]

Yes, another theory is that you as the tarnished are the stormlord, after all you start in farum azula and why else would one more be blessed with grace if you weren't worthy?

[@Xandros999]

Do you start in Farum Azula?

[@nathanjohnson1871]

Yes, according to several lore videos and bits and pieces of evidence in farum azula including the chapel there which indicates the arrival of your character on walls there....if I could stream I would show a video about it and the wall images. To be honest I stumbled on the chapel by accident when I fell off a edge and landed in the same starting area. Don't know if it is a glitch or meant that way. When I looked it up I found some lore videos that made me really think it was intentional. :)

[@Xandros999]

@@nathanjohnson1871 Thanks. I'll keep an eye out for that.

[@nathanjohnson1871]

@@Xandros999 👍 np I hope you find it too. I thought it was interesting and added some more mystery as to who the player character actually is. Some people also believe we play as a host body for miquella which explains how everyone is essentially bewitched by us and feel we are unique.

[@rowk_art]

The flower depicted in Godfrey boss room and in Farum Azula is called a Thunder Wheel in Ukraine and is usually depicted on houses as a protection talisman against lightning. So, can it be same for this two locations? A protection from the storm?

[@DavidHill-im2zg]

Good video. 👍 As you spoke it occurred to me that I think Nepheli is a truth-seeker by ethnicity. Her skin tone is similar to them and it may be corroborated by the stormhawk kings ashes and Kenneth Haight who each speak of a "true storm" and "true order" respectively.

[@Xandros999]

Some of Stormveils banners seem to depict a being that breathes out a storm. I think the storm could be analogous to the present day Erdtree as an emanation of the Greater Will. There isn't much other detail about the truth-seeker. But truthseeking is evidently what Nepheli does as part of her storyline, so that may be an additional clue.

[@DavidHill-im2zg]

@@Xandros999 sounds like it's time I take another tour of Stormveil so I can find these banners. That sounds intriguing

[@Noveblast]

I overall dont buy the theory wholesale and some parts seem a bit wonky, but i think your observations on physical similarities in items, locations and such are great!

[@schnoz2372]

Horah Loux wasnt the storm king

[@RobleViejo]

Why do you pronounce Azula like that? It throws me off