Why "A Certain Doom" Disappoints - The Walking Dead Season 10F vs Comic - A Brief Retrospective

Today at the Mystery Shack, we dive into the climax of the Whisperer War and season 10 to explore why the TV-show could never reach the emotional highs set out by Kirkman and "A Certain Doom". We'll be covering the final episodes of The Walking Dead's season 10 and comic issues 163-167 of the "A Certain Doom" volume.
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Timecodes:
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00:00 - Introduction
00:44 - March on Alexandria
03:16 - Negan, Dog & Lydia
04:32 - Daryl & Judith
06:51 - The Unfortunate Circumstances of 2020
08:35 - The Battle for Alexandria
10:30 - Saviors 2: Electric Boogaloo
11:16 - The End of the World
12:56 - Conquered
15:05 - Rick & Negan
19:51 - Carl Grimes
20:38 - Burning the House Down
21:51 - The Battle at the Hospital
23:08 - Negan & Daryl vs Beta
23:42 - Come sail away, come sail away, come sail away with meeee
25:16 - A Certain Doom
26:25 - Opportunity
29:01 - Andrea Grimes
38:00 - Apology ;-;
39:42 - Closing Thoughts
40:09 - Outro
#thewalkingdead #TWD

[@SuperSpamGuy]

Even Kirkman stated he hated having to kill off Andrea but he wanted to remind readers that no characters have plot armour. Best death in the series

[@crusader2112]

“Kirkman, wanna cook.” Rip Andrea. Thank you Robert Kirkman, you beautiful bastard. 😎👍

[@cassandraharding4326]

this is making me feel so sad, i remember i first got into twd with the telltale games when they first came out and from there the tv show then comics, the comics and game universe holds such a special place in my heart and its such a shame how they handled the story for the tv adaptation, not that its especially bad or anything, but its not the walking dead i know and love, i hope they make a more accurate retelling of the comic story one day, maybe an animated series, that might actually kill me with the emotional damage it would cause

[@HelloZukoHere7]

An animated series would be perfect. I do like the comics way more than the show, although the earlier seasons of the show were great. I wouldn't trade the actors that they picked for Rick and Shane for the world, so it would be weird hearing Rick sound any other way.

[@michaelkugler3886]

an animated show would be amazing. especially if it follows the comic storyline

[@warriorblaze8752]

Babe wake up! Korotos Mystery Shack uploaded another walking dead retrospective! 😄

[@maxwellmoore9593]

Best day of the month

[@marag7184]

Step#1 get someone to call “babe”

[@kylelowe4618]

Wow, how pathetic. You posted this exact same message 2 episodes ago and got a bunch of likes, so you wrote the exact same thing again on this one. Hahaha what a joke. Come up with something new next time

[@foretwentydude]

Does she just sleep until the next retrospective comes out?

[@adamhoff4370]

I think they may have intentionally replicated Andrea's death from the comics with Rosita's death at the end of season 11.

[@Koroto]

Yup, I think Rosita's death definitely drew on Andrea's and I'll definitely be talking plenty more about it once we get there. 👍

[@kellydavid8169]

That was EXCELLENT!! I’ve been dying to watch your retrospective on Andrea’s death. You’re 100% right on everything you said. It was so unbelievably devastating and the comic handled so beautifully. I don’t cry with fictional characters either but I remember how hard that issue hit me. It would’ve been so amazing to see on the show. AWESOME job! You rock. And I cannot believe you’re up to 10F. I can only imagine what season 11 will look like!

[@jennifersado]

I LOVE these retrospectives and as someone that's never read the books, your summary of Andrea's fate in the story was so well done, it even got me a little bit 😭 excellent video as always and can't wait for the next one. Thanks for all the work you do!

[@Koroto]

🙇‍♂️🙇‍♂️

[@a_ninja2376]

God this hit so hard for me. I got spoiled on the final death but seeing Andrea just, god man. I was upset for the entire day after

[@blistow3519]

Personally I thought the Negan Lydia dynamic was great shame they kind of just dropped it after this point (can’t remember if they even interact in the final season) but I would have been cool if they stuck together and maybe Lydia could have taken the role of negans child sidekick in dead city (nothing against the new girl doing it it’s more the whole Negan befriends a lot of kids to show he’s good issue)

[@Logan912]

Yep, just like how the show dropped the Negan and Judith dynamic after Season 9. I don’t mind the show making changes from the comics as long as those changes are still good, but what’s even the point of those changes when it just drops interesting subplots like they never happened?

[@blistow3519]

@@Logan912 exactly like comic Negan was also “good” with kids and it was both done consistently and wasn’t just done to make him seem like a good guy like comic Negan had such an interesting and different friendship with carl something that did disappear by the end of there story’s but it left naturally when Carl moved to hilltop but is something that is still at least referenced right up until the final issue of the comics (no spoilers here) But yeah it’s almost past the point of disbelief the amount of random children who have lost there family he has taken under his wing and yeah they just keep abandoning the previous dynamic like him and Judith and him and Lydia and him and his actual kid like a big part of season 11 part 3 is Negan has a pregnant wife (obviously a Glenn and Maggie comparison) and he was literally ready to die for his wife and unborn son but by dead city he has just abandoned them? Like what?!?

[@kaiserfranzjoseph9311]

Isnt Lydia in only like 3 scenes in all of season 11?

[@blistow3519]

@@kaiserfranzjoseph9311 yeah she’s only in the final 3 seasons (she’s also barley in the final season)

[@kaiserfranzjoseph9311]

@@blistow3519 she is only intruduced with the whisperes, so of course she is only in the last few seasons. but I genuinly cant remember a single thing she did in all of S11 other than stand around in some group shots

[@connortheassassin]

Some of the best TV retrospectives on the platform here. That 100K subs is well deserved and can't come soon enough.

[@ArDeeMee]

38:35 „I had plenty of time to change my mind. I had plenty of time to just not do it. I am in control of this story after all.“ Anyone who‘s ever created a story knows that feeling. You build up a storyline over the span of years, moving around parts, removing, adding, replacing, restructuring. And then it happens. One last puzzle piece falls into place and you realize just what you‘ve done here. You‘ve trapped yourself into an outcome you didn’t anticipate, or even want, but it just feels so RIGHT. This is what will happen. And no matter how much you try to restructure/rewrite it, every alternative feels like the cheap cop out it is. And that’s how you kill or permanently damage your absolute favorites. Trying to backpedal is literally impossible, because you KNOW that this is the only outcome that feels right. Ugh, it sucks. I‘ve done some horrible things to my characters, simply by following a what-if alternative to something I had finished in my mind, only to realize how much more impact this alternative has. And then it’s canon in your head.

[@LordKeram]

There are plenty of writers who do end up not killing the character. The story is always worse for it. But it has to be done.

[@benmcbride2590]

No way did this come out at the same time as The Thrifty Typewriter's Walking Dead Field Guide. So much walking dead content... I love life

[@arkitekst]

issue 167 is, i think, one of only 2 times i genuinely cried reading The Walking Dead

[@Koroto]

Kirkman was cooking 😭😭

[@dwightyboy5324]

I still remember reading this issue when it came out, it broke my heart so much. I never thought I'd get that emotional reading a comic, yet it happened.

[@bishbosh4815]

The season 10 finale (yeah, the first one) was SO disappointing to me! There was so much potential to have a herd of walkers, bigger than the one in season 6, to flood Alexandria and fill it like sardines in a can, with Whisperers among them, and it would be like No Way Out cranked up to 100 as the characters would have to traverse their way through the horde while also trying to identify and kill the Whisperers. It wouldve been SO terrifying as this is what the intended fear and threat of the Whisperers was, that was completely lost basically just as soon as they were introduced. This is kiiiiiind of what they did, but at a random location that everyone just magically appeared at without any planning on the screen, and the literal only person that was killed was some random Oceanside lady!! This would have been a diversion from the comics too, but wouldve been more faithful and also elevated the story! Beta's death was also better than in the comics, but so lame and rushed compared to the fight scene between him, Daryl and Negan we couldve gotten. A big character shouldve also gotten the Andrea death, and Maggie shouldve been reintroduced in a better way

[@ownagenoobs1]

New Korotos yap session unlocked 👍✅

[@markburns7854]

im happy you used comic rick and Andrea as i feel her death and the overall video was one of the defining parts of the whisperer war

[@transmissionzone148]

When Covid happened and I saw a little bit of that season I just didn’t think it was gonna last another season so when I saw it on Netflix I rewatched from start to end and balled because everyone that couldn’t make it like Daryl conversation with Rick in season nine really hits different when you watch it all at once like a long movie

[@PricefieldPunk]

I think the show thought Carl dying to a walker bite would have a similar affect but it's no where close to the emotions the comic got when Andrea got bite

[@TinyyTonyy]

Mom wake up, new video 😎👍

[@sealake7935]

I loved this season, but Rick’s absence was definitely felt. I just wish we were able to see Rick fight in this war

[@gfilmer7150]

Part of me hated the Episode A Certain Doom for a long time because of change in location and the fact Negan and Beta did not go mono e mono, but I actually rewatched it a couple of days ago and really enjoyed it. Rewatching all of the Beta scenes I guess calmed eased that tension. I still wish we got a Negan and Beta fighting one on one and have like Daryl start whacking Beta with Lucille 2.0 allowing Negan to get the upper hand.

[@BeanCove]

during the wait for the s10 finale i actually kinda hyped myself up because i decided to finally buy the comics and i was not disappointed

[@ArDeeMee]

Good investment.

[@Koroto]

Best decision

[@alexisburns1196]

another fantastic video as always man im so hyped for you to cover season 11 and part g of season 10

[@stich3796]

The good writing of this, i havent read the cómic, and just watched this and freaking cried for her...

[@johnnycontreras4932]

i knew it was good writing when the simple re explanation of wht happens in the comic made me shed a tear

[@alexkandormahfoud8561]

early gang, love your vids man, please keep going dude

[@Koroto]

We're going until the end! 😤

[@LordKeram]

It's perfectly said that Walking Dead has died by thousand cuts. I think with the Andrea death being so impactful in the comic it perfectly shows what the TV show lacked in the latter seasons. Once Glen died, and then Carl died and Michone and Rick left. And Maggie left for a while. It felt like the writers were desperately holding onto the last few remaining members of the cast and the tension just wasn't there. Sure kill all the newer members who we know for 1-2 seasons. But never the guys who have been here since the start. Andrea was there since day 1 and so her death is that much more impactful.

[@BoogSReviews]

It did get that though, with Carl. People hate the decision, but the show needed a big death like that. Him dying made it so that Rick would spare Negan and unite everyone in the show universe. It was impactful and sad, just like Andreas comic death.

[@Koroto]

I've talked ad nauseam about Carl's death, so I won't type out a paragraph here, but while it is similar in terms of emotion, what it lacks is purpose and intent. Andrea's death propels Rick forward, creates a fracture between him and Dwight, creates a empathetic link between him and Negan and about a dozen other smaller things we'll get to eventually in the series. Carl's death might unite Rick and Negan (which I would still argue about, but whatever), but butchers any story potential - something that is only exacerbated by Andrew and Danai both leaving the show. Andrea's death feels like long-term setup, while Carl's just feels like a short-term emotion bomb that quickly fizzles out and leaves you with the question of "why?" imo.

[@LordKeram]

I think on the face of it, the Carl death was an attempt from the showrunners to replicate the Andrea death. And at the time it happened. It did work. At least on me it worked. But after some of the other cores of the cast left. That decision ended up biting them in the butt. And afterwards they were afraid to do something like that anymore.@@Koroto

[@phantom5757]

I haven’t watched the video yet as it has only been uploaded 8 minutes ago but I can’t wait to watch this video as I am loving your walking dead content and I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on a certain doom.

[@Koroto]

🙇‍♂️

[@phantom5757]

@@Korotoafter watching the video and thinking about it for a few hours now I have to say this is your best video. The section dedicated to Andrea’s death was perfectly written and summed up my thoughts on her death perfectly. Can’t wait for the how you do the final season.

[@jeremydembowski1059]

I was waiting for this after binging all the other ones!

[@mozzbyy8616]

YESSS I BEEN WAITINGG FOR THIS

[@aphroditlima2330]

Yessssssss I’ve been waiting! It’s gonna be sad when the seasons end

[@ssjkakarotttv2676]

Issue 167 and 191 we're the only 2 issues to make me cry for obvious reasons and I won't be ashamed of it, I loved the Comic Book Version of The Walking Dead WAY MORE than the TV Version just because all the meaningful character's I really enjoyed are all either "Dead" or have exited the show and that really is just sad.

[@coso695]

gad damm i'm tearing up

[@Koroto]

sorry, Kirkman was cooking 😭

[@s.nifrum4580]

Only one more season 10 video to go and then you get to the commonwealth storyline Aw man I feel for you

[@Titangoboom99]

I was never a huge fan of TWD. but. Your videos give me a great back ground playlist while im at work. So thank you (:

[@BenRai2k]

a certain doom was such a let down. I wanted to see Alexandria's streets being filled and have whisperers sneaking into the houses. I can't believe Beta never even killed any major character.

[@lukaslambs5780]

The only thing more heart wrenching than Andrea’s death or the end of AOT coming soon is the idea that eventually this series and the AOT series will come to an end 😢

[@bishbosh4815]

Wow, I'd never really seen things from that perspective. The comics does such a better job of explaining Negan's philosophy and reasoning than the show. Negan was weak and his people were weak, and he believed he had to make them strong to survive. He made people submissive because in his mind that's how he protected them. It wasnt until he came across Rick and his people than he realised there are strong people in this world. He thought he could beat them into submission and get them to fall in line, but they were never going to, and they were always going to fight back. Negan believed everyone was weak and afraid, sheep that needed to be guided, and he was the shepherd, and because they couldn't produce anything at the Sanctuary they had to enslave and steal from other communities. But then Rick made him realise it doesn't have to be like that, we can work together, we can help eachother, we can trade and make eachother stronger, we can build something, a life out of the ashes. It was never about fulfilling the wishes of someone who died, it was about looking at the bigger picture and finding an understanding between eachother. This is why using Carl's death as the catalyst for Rick sparing Negan and Negan's redemption arc doesn't fucking work!

[@ottoww289]

Would have been cool if they had the group hide in the Sanctuary rather than in that hospital

[@Darkknightfan426]

God if they had adapted 167 as close to the letter as possible, with Rick and Andrea and Carl and the rest all being there the way they should've been, it would've been undoubtedly remembered as not only the best episode of the series but one of of the greatest episodes of television of all time, which unfortunately the walking dead doesn't really have in my opinion. Even it's best episodes to me don't have that strength, maybe the pilot and an episode like Too Far Gone come the closest. But that's really it. I desperately wanna live in a reality to see Lincoln and JDM capture that heart to heart scene between them, or see Lincoln deliver practically any of his final scenes with Andrea. What a fucking unfortunate thing we missed out on

[@greatrieck]

I’ve been catching up on these retrospective videos because I love them so much but I wanna just mention two things from my experience reading this issue by issue: The issue where Andrea gets bit in, 163, was only $1 in the US and was sold as a jumping on point. I was also working at a comic shop and at the time we were all told to read it to promote it. I was the only employee who read the comics at the time so I was already excited to read an issue while working. The fact that Kirkman/Image had the balls to make this a “jumping on point” astounded me. Especially because funny enough reading the comic at work when it ended I outright said “What the fuck” which got me written up because you weren’t allowed to swear like that on day shift. I’ll also give more thoughts after I finish the retrospective but wanted to bring up this personal anecdote

[@iNoLuNA]

I would love to watch retrospectives of Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul and El Camino from Korotos :D

[@Logan912]

Now that would be fun

[@ExaustedSugar]

Carol should have died in 10x16. It would have wrapped her story up so well, saving Lydia in the process. Would have replaced Andrea's death in terms of offing an original character. Also with no Savior rebellion, and pushing it way up to the beginning of season 9, was alright but god, A Certain Doom is probably my second favorite comic arc right behind Fear the Hunters and they screwed it up.

[@Gabey_515]

Early Gang💯

[@Flipitmixit]

Still think whoever was in charge of the show was smoking some good crack when deciding to omit Andrews Rick from the Whisperer War

[@PokemonHero1000]

Hey, I've been watching your videos for a while I very much enjoy listening to you dissecting The Walking Dead and AoT. My question for you is do you prefer patreon or youtube membership because I'd really love to support your work.

[@Koroto]

I think Patreon takes a smaller cut, so purely from a doubloons perspective, probably that 😅 Other than that, whichever you prefer - functionally it's the same thing as far as I know. Thank you for considering extra support ♥

[@theisskypurple]

Finally caught up with the series after watching it on and off for the last few months

[@JoaoVictor-rg5ix]

Wonder if this bro will ever cover the Telltale games version of the story? Are they both connected or entirely separeted?

[@Electrowz11]

They're connected to the comics, there's Glenn, Hershel, Jesus and other characters

[@lightningmonky7674]

I'm glad you were able to enjoy betas death, unfortunately I found it a let down to such long buildup that came from probably the weakest season. I was able to find stuff about 7 and 8 I liked and understood, the only part of season 10 that appealed to me at all was "here's negan". I heard they had a lot more choreography planned out for the beta fight, just felt like a let down after the awesome choreography of the last few seasons

[@rahvu420]

You got sad during making of this video and i got sad during it.. It's been awhile, but maybe it's time to read the comics again as i haven't done so since the ending.

[@bishbosh4815]

I think this is why Negan's redemption arc in the show, even though its been done to death, still doesn’t work for a lot of people. Yes, it may be as simple as Negan killing Glenn was just too much for some fans to bare and no matter what Negan says or does he is irredeemable, and people think he hasnt really changed or done enough to earn forgiveness (although at this point literally what more can he do), but it's that he says never really admitted he was wrong or showed remorse for what he did, who he was, the people he killed and the suffering he caused. Even to this day Negan doesnt regret what he did, and maybe thats just who he is and in his mind he was and will always be justified, but he never has this moment of self reflection and catharsis in which he explains why he did what he did and admits he was wrong. Finally in the finale Negan showed remorse for killing Glenn and apologised to Maggie, and they did have their cathartic chat at the end in which Maggie says she will never forgive him, but she's trying, and she doesn't want to hate him anymore or let that hate consume her. She's basically absolving him and no longer wants revenge, and wants to let go of her hatred and grief and move on. But all of that is undone in Dead City when she just goes back to fighting him. In the show more than the comic, it has all just become about Glenn, Glenn, Glenn, and the enmity between Maggie and Negan, rather than the relationship he had with Rick and Carl in the comics which was more about the respect and admiration they had for eachother, despite being mortal enemies, and basically being two sides of the same coin. I really just want Negan to have his own spinoff now and to be his more authentic self rather than always feeling like he's trying to make it up to Maggie and having this quasi redemption arc that goes back and forth. Show Negan is a complex character, but comic Negan was more principled and was never really redeemed, he was just a survivor and always adapting to his surroundings, doing what he thought was right and being more of a wildcard in the story.

[@the-gooftroop]

Day 1 of asking for a GOT & Peaky Blinders Retrospective. Please Koroto 🙏🏼

[@dachristiangamer]

20:12 funniest part 😂😂

[@charliehodgkinson7179]

yeah but ‘burning down the house’ is a banger🙏🏻

[@derek_dkf3772]

Could you do that of saying the chapters from the comic in the beginning?

[@matthewnicholls3258]

Morgan, Dwight, Rick, Maggie and Michonne leaving and side characters playing main roles didn’t have the acting chops for those roles

[@keifer7]

This dude puts out nothing but heat

[@drkevly5006]

I won’t lie, Daryl is my favorite from the earlier seasons only because he didn’t have nearly as much plot armor as Rick, and at the time Shane. Daryl was a cool side character and now he is just op with plot armor. Daryl should have died at the lineup and give other characters time to shine lol

[@godusopp2752]

Season 9 felt like a revigerration of the show, season 10 was massively bogged down by covid

[@deliriushunter]

Andrea's death broke me.. literally gut wrenching..

[@lightningmonky7674]

Crazy to think one of our main opps is falling over. Stay balanced people

[@camcueball]

Do this again like tomorrow tytyty ❤

[@Koroto]

Oh how I wish I could 😅😅

[@Banditt_Red]

Idk why tf I’m watching this because I haven’t seen TWD since season 8 and never read the comic

[@Koroto]

Lmao, that's prime YT experience right there! Is it really YT if you don't spend 6 hours watching lore on some obscure video game you've never even heard of? 😂😂

[@ArDeeMee]

I stopped after S4, so this is 1A content to me. I get the show overview without having to suffer through all the nonsense that killed the series for me mid S4.

[@cameroncarruthers657]

Please do the walking dead video games… the Clem trilogy

[@aidenramirez9391]

early love these videos man🤌🏽

[@markburns7854]

i think season 11 will be 10 parts at least

[@damonlongstreet8630]

20:06 - 20:19 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

[@darylrichardson8567]

In defense of the Author… it totally sucks to kill Main Characters. The world just takes over & next thing we know… BOOM TRAGEDY 🎭

[@damonlongstreet8630]

I'm so glad I stopped watching at 1008, just depressing people waited 6 months for a finally cause Amc had no faith in there unwanted teen drama

[@dwightyboy5324]

I hated waiting for that finale. To me, it was honestly a really disappointing finale.

[@HeyKyle]

Jesus Christ that’s sad

[@operationthrash9645]

To be fair, the show was a completely unfixable pile of garbage by the time the full on whisperer war began. I don’t think there was any saving it. It was broken beyond on any full repair with the loss of Carl AND Rick. There’s some things the writing team could have done for some damage control over the last 3 seasons, but they were too lazy. Maybe they should have hired you instead

[@yaboileroy561]

I've Never been this early before

[@Koroto]

👀

[@DourFlower]

i love every single time you make a silly slide of nonsensical complaining and call yourself korotos mid shack, ive read them in every video you do them and at this point korotos mid shack lives in my head as your alter ego that does, like, reaction content exclusively or something :^)

[@BoogSReviews]

Honestly, I prefer how it happens in the show. I do wish Andrea would’ve lived though. It sucks she was killed off so long before the comic ended. Though, Carl kind of gets her death in the show.

[@totalnerd2180]

I’m not gonna lie, every time I watch the scene between Negan and Lydia about Lydia needing to mourn absolutely destroys me every time. JDM and Cassady’s performances get me to cry every single time.

[@giornomus]

Tomato tomato drop new aot video please😔

[@John-jt4ol]

Oh no you’re gonna start triggering the show fans, the harsh truth is S9-11 are just average or bad

[@vincenta8652]

“The show later seasons don’t have this “. As if the Rosita scene wasn’t celebrated as one of the best things if not the best part of the finale. But yeah sure why not I guess

[@intless93]

20:10 The show was never about Carl becoming a leader, though. Comics Carl and TV Carl are Very different characters.

[@stuffcereal8950]

I love this content it’s so well written and edited, but for the love of God, please stop saying cooking this much in the script

[@vincenta8652]

How was Glenn being saved by Abraham less played up then geabruel being attacked by two whisperers? The directing and music of that scene of Glenn being swarmed was milked to the last second. Now you are literally just saying whatever You say Gabriel should have died and don’t even know explain why Death doesn’t make an episode good. The death had to mean something. Him dying there would have no substance to it

[@vincenta8652]

How was Glenn being saved by Abraham less played up then geabruel being attacked by two whisperers? The directing and music of that scene of Glenn being swarmed was milked to the last second. Now you are literally just saying whatever

[@vincenta8652]

In the show they are aware of the size of the horde and it makes no sense for them to trap themselves at Alexandria where they would die but also destroy their home. It makes total sense to leave. We get similar meaningful conversations negan and rick had and with negan and Lydia had. Gabriel doesn’t die randomly which is great because he is an awesome charctawr with some of the best natural growth on the show. He became someone rather than a red shirt the comics used him as. Also it was clear before the show came out that Daryl was captured… so yeah your insistence to criticize a scene based on info you don’t have about another show can’t be any less objective even if you tried. Did you really say got took a year off to get things right? Lol Twd production was halted due to Covid. Which impacts how it’s even filmed. This affects locations being filmed and how many can be on set at once which means it limits what is on screen. D and D just decided to cut everything short. That’s the opposite of taking your time

[@MastersDefender]

No hate for the actress, but I was expecting Lydia to be more creepy. The one in the tv show looks and acts a bit too ordinary, like, they didn't even really try to adapt her properly. Speaking of portrayal in adaptation, I don't like Siddiq in the show. For starters, why did they have a non-Arab actor to portray an Arab character? Not to mention Siddiq should've been buff instead of skinny.