Why The Siege of Hilltop Lacks Impact - The Walking Dead Season 10E vs Comic - A Brief Retrospective

Today at the Mystery Shack, we near the climax of the Whisperer War and discuss how the tv-show adapted the comic book's most important final battles, most notably - the siege of Hilltop.
We'll be covering the latter half of The Walking Dead's season 10 and comic issues 159 - 162 of the Whisperer War volume.
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Timecodes:
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00:00 - Introduction
00:30 - Battle in the Field & Why We're Kinda Monkey Brain
01:47 - Negan vs Frowny McTwoKnives
03:40 - Divide and Conquer
05:36 - Carl & Lydia - Foreshadowing and their stories
07:38 - Plans & Worries
09:40 - When in Rome
11:24 - Dante & Maggie
13:49 - Siege of Hilltop
21:32 - The Militia
22:59 - Turmoil within the joint alliance
24:49 - The Morning After
26:39 - Earl the MEGA-GIGA-SIGMA Chad
28:03 - Beta loses it
28:32 - Negan & Daryl
29:32 - Departure for the Commonwealth - Major Eugene Differences
30:15 - Triumph...... right?
34:31 - Closing Thoughts
35:09 - Outro
#thewalkingdead #twd

[@jakobmorales1176]

I will never not be upset about how Carl/Chandler Riggs was robbed of his story in the whisper arc

[@Koroto]

Same... same... One day we'll get that animated series. 😢

[@Hardrive2677]

It still hurts to this day. Getting rid of Carl literally ruins the whole story.

[@vincenta8652]

@@Hardrive2677 unpopular but true …. Chandler Riggs couldn’t act and tv Carl was simply a plot device and never had an arc and nothing up until where he saved sadiq did a single action of his have a direction effect on the plot. His death changed nothing for the plot or any of the characters. He was actually one of the least relevant characters alive that point. If rick was leaving Carl would have never carried the show… not tv Carl. Not chandler Riggs. Henry was infinitely more interesting and had more direct affect on the plot no characters around him then Carl ever had

[@steventomasi5557]

​@vincenta8652 oh he had an arch alright his arch was from the 7 finale to the 8 premiere which timeline wise is only a few days apart Carl went from firing the first shots of all out war to a pacifist and all that character development off screen on top of it nice work Gimple nice fucking job of killing the show

[@BonnerDoesYouTube]

​@@vincenta8652Have you not watched the entire series? They literally took his comic storyline away and gave us awkward teen romance. Chandler is a good actor. He was just given a bad script.

[@Eh.........]

Under the Tree is undoubtedly an epic piece or art, one of the very few dozens or hundreds of songs you won't get tired listening on repeat! Truly a work of art. Oh, another TWD enjoyer. I applaud your work and dedication!

[@pattersonmorin32]

So cathartic to see all of my problems with the later seasons vocalized. Style over substance describes it perfectly. They’re always doing intense stuff but none of it ever matters/makes sense.

[@hatedcritic2585]

Man, I loved Jon Bernthal as Shane so much. I honestly wish they brought a spin off serious documenting a, "what if he survived," thing. He is just such a good actor and the first few seasons of TWD were honestly the greatest of modern television.

[@Koroto]

Yeah, unfortunately I think we're never going to see him return to TWD in any major capacity. 😭 ONE DAY, we'll get the animated "What if" we all so desperately crave with Kirkman at the helm 😤

[@hatedcritic2585]

I would pay good money to see that man! Cheers for the reply@@Koroto

[@mcboyrules7894]

I wish we had gotten to see more of the siege in the tv show

[@vincenta8652]

I agree so much with letting Maggie move on. Her agency has been ironically taken. Away

[@AStangeSoup]

6:27 my absolute favorite Negan line from the comic

[@FeralCabbage]

I’m loving these new thumbnails!

[@tinycanlid5]

I'll never get tired of your commentary on TWD universe, another great video! 🙌

[@StraightEdgeJunkie]

My man throwing hella shade at the spinoffs lol. Love it.

[@TYKingKhi]

Really like the new thumbnail look 👍🏿

[@ArDeeMee]

Around 7:00 Emotional attachment =/= love. You can deeply care for someone, live with them, be partners, and be genuinely happy. But „love“ isn’t necessary. In fact, „love“ is a romantic concept, it is a word used in fiction. Reality is different, and much more nuanced.

[@lancenwokeji6349]

There’s different kinds of love. It doesn’t have to be romantic at all. Even friends can love each other. Love isn’t a super secret, super sacred emotion that you need a special key to unlock.

[@Xpertfusion]

They butchered Lydia’s involvement in the battle of Hilltop. I absolutely loved what the comics did with her, showing her killing them as she realizes she has no choice. The show didn’t even bother showing that. She just kills a few and it doesn’t even really matter to her.

[@Flipitmixit]

Im not watching any of the spinoffs, MAYBE the 1 with Rick, but DAMN SURE not the 1 where maggie is chilling with the man who bashed Glens skull in😂

[@JCovo]

Absolutely beautiful take as always ❤️ 💕

[@Koroto]

🙇‍♂️

[@SavantPete]

"I didn't see hundreds or 1 thousand, I SAW THOUSANDS". Hits hard

[@kellydavid8169]

Woohooo! 🥳🎉

[@stevieb274]

Can’t believe I’m all caught up I started listening to these from the beginning like a week or two ago

[@JosiahL87]

Robert Kirkman is actually an executive producer for the Daryl Dixon show… so he’s back being involved in the shows which is pretty cool.

[@Koroto]

Ummm, where have you seen this? I am 99% certain he is in no way involved with the AMC franchise at this point. Obvs all of them have a legal obligation to say "based on comic by Robert Kirkman", but nowhere have I seen that he has in any way worked on the show.

[@Tom.morals]

Your videos make my week! Thank ya!

[@gokturk6087]

Babe, wake up! Korotos dropped a new retrospective on TWD!

[@jonborg753]

I came looking for this comment!

[@tinycanlid5]

I gasped when I saw there was a new video out, I got way too excited lmao

[@Laith_ashour75]

Amazing as always.. we are looking for the next video ❤

[@ImperialWarrior6490]

12:50 All that stuff about how Comic Maggie learns to move on vs Show Maggie literally unable to stop hating Negan and get over Glenn after a decade... yes, that's exactly how I feel! Please... she needs another lover in her life! Enough is enough! AMC... Let it go!

[@bananaman281]

Yoooo been waiting for this

[@levisweeney976]

Love the new thumbnails style and again great content ❤

[@xoDemi]

i watched this entire series of yours and i've agreed with 99% of your takes but i disagree with your take on TV Show Negan, heavy. His years in prison and reflection changing his character to be more sympathetic i preferred vastly over his comic book counterpart that keeps him mostly the same. His show variant has so much growth and JDM's performance and portrayal of this transition was amazing

[@Logan912]

I disagree with you on that because I felt like the comics showed a lot more depth with Negan. In the show, they do this weird thing of Negan changing into a different character completely starting with Season 9 along with moving on from Lucille and everything but also *not* changing or progressing because he constantly makes excuses for himself with the whole “but your people attacked mine too!” It feels like the show, at times, pretends that Negan was never a bad guy and tried to sweep everything under the rug even though he was *far* more extreme during Season 7 than his comic counterpart. In the comics, Negan never really gets “redeemed,” but that’s the point. Negan finally accepts that what he did was wrong and that he was never a good guy both to Lucille and to everyone else when he led the Saviors. He knows that he’ll never be forgiven nor should he be because there are some things you can’t come back from, and that’s why it was his idea to become exiled. The show, on the other hand, has Negan come back to the community where everyone hates his guts because… he’s an idiot, I guess. Also so they can keep their “fan favorite character” in the story. In other words, the show traded a natural and nuanced villain character arc for a generic and half-assed “redemption” arc full of holes and leaps of logic because, let’s be honest, Negan was one of the few reasons people kept watching the show by that point (to be fair though, Negan was the only reason I kept reading the comics in the early post-timeskip when Rick was unlikeable for a long time). None of this is to say that I don’t like Jeffrey Dean Morgan in the role. He’s great as Negan. It’s the writing that lets him down.

[@mandragorer4603]

he was also not imprisoned for nearly as long in the comics!

[@CassidyDylyn]

Hard to disagree with the points on Maggie as a character. It might as well be considered an achievement that both the showrunners and Lauren Cohan managed to take one of the most interesting and emotionally polarizing characters from a comic full of interesting/complex characters, and with it create something so one-dimensional and borderline insufferable.

[@epicgamer-xh8eq]

Super awesome as always keep it up 👍

[@ExaustedSugar]

It's crazy how much better the A Certain Doom arc is done in the comics. The show version was a joke compared to it.

[@Koroto]

You know it's good when I'm even sad working on the next video despite hearing the same thing 50 times. 😭

[@scout8179]

its a meloncholic feeling knowing we're nearing the end, do you have more plans for walking dead content after the conculsion of the series?

[@Koroto]

Absolutely! When I'm done with the *brief* retrospective, it'll be time for deeper dives into the nuts and bolts of the series. And if the spin offs (especially Rick & Michonne) end up good, I'll probs cover them in some capacity on the main channel as well 👍

[@matthiasthulman4058]

Would you be covering the FTWD series? I think you'd make it a lot more interesting than it actually was

[@costbubbles8336]

Great video; as usual

[@Koroto]

🙇‍♂️

[@aphroditlima2330]

So funny, I was just thinking about when you were going to post next this morning, then I go on KZbin bang, it’s here!

[@Koroto]

_Serendipitous_

[@DourFlower]

I liked the previous thumbnail style more idk if thats something you were curious to gauge reaction on

[@HeyKyle]

It’s a crime that these videos don’t have atleast 100k views

[@Nelwelly2709]

Babe wake up, new twd retrospective video

[@samcorbett8783]

Love how comic heavy this one is, purely because it was a much better way to describe what they were *trying* to do in the show. Literally everything concerning the war always being blurry is thrown away in the show, and it really spoiled it for me. I wish it would have felt less "plot to a show" and more "it's the end of the world so...people just kinda be doing things.' And it is so much more interesting when those things arent so obviously portrayed as "bad things that bad people do for the sake of being bad"

[@wallethornedale9707]

Banger Walking dead content thank you

[@awsdhgy13rwq71]

i love these vids

[@ralseidagoat]

Discovered this retrospective during season 6 or 7 i believe! Been with it monthly ever since! Thanks for another great episode!!

[@audycjablabla6977]

About Lucille breaking: it was done The exact same way on the show

[@Logan912]

Sure except in a completely different context and different point of the story. The show uses it to symbolize Negan getting over Lucille which misses the point of the character. Negan *never* gets over Lucille in the comics because his grief and regret is what keeps him going, and when he admits that he treated her wrong and used her name to help motivate him to kill people, that’s when Negan also admits that he was wrong for all the things he did when he led the Saviors yet also recognizing that he’ll never truly be forgiven nor should he be. The show, on the other hand, has Negan move on from Lucille completely and constantly make excuses for himself for all the things he did like “well, your people attacked mine too!”

[@a_ninja2376]

Honestly need to reread this later stuff. I read volumes 25-32 in like 2 nights

[@vrgamer3371]

"Jesus, you're back!"

[@TheFrunky]

A very very bad dude, an unambiguously bad dude, can be sad... And me, realizing that he is bad, will also feel kind of sad

[@vincenta8652]

The comic was more explicit , but being a different medium and having already spend 16 episodes on pure “war” nobody watching the tv show wanted another barrage of action episodes Cold War beginning fits way better for the show and what it was already doing. This is the fundamental problem of simply criticizing the show or simply not doing what the comic is doing since it blatantly ignored the fundamental different routes they take It’s bias and not objective

[@Koroto]

First off, obviously nothing I say is objective. I'm not reading off the wiki, I'm explaining why I feel the way I feel. 😅 But umm, there is no cold war in the show. If anything, it's a proxy war with the constant sabotage and what not. The show had them fighting since day 1, which is exactly what made the "climaxes" not feel like climaxes. The comic had a cold war, it had internal problems that we had to deal with and only then did everything come crashing down. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I'm not sure what you're getting at with the whole "16 episodes of pure war", because that's what the show was. The satellite and the survivors crossing into their land sparks war - Alpha saying that there is no war while sending hordes to Alexandria is not a cold war in my book. What would have been a cold war are the months we skipped between seasons 9 and 10. 🤷‍♂️ Ditto for criticizing certain aspects of the show - a flail is just dumb, Carol & co falling into a cave and everyone being completely fine is just dumb, the fake-out deaths from said cave are also just as bad as they were with Glenn in season 6, Magna stumbling through the horde as if there weren't literal catapults firing at them is just dumb and the list goes on. None of those things have anything to do with the comic - it's the tone and rules of the world that the show itself established.

[@WestonEvans]

Bro WHEN did you get 90k, almost 100k subs?!? I remember when you had like 3k and it wasn’t even all that long ago, relatively speaking. While I commend you on your work ethic, especially recently (guessing you went full time?), what video gave you your biggest boost? The one that you put out and saw exponential growth overnight? I know you know lol, that’s not something one forgets. It’s something I’d find interesting as a long time follower. Blessings! PS very hype that you pointed out the Maggie panel(s). It’s something I never would’ve recognized for what it is if you didn’t say anything. My interpretation was “cheesy joke” and while that’s definitely part of it, narratively, there’s much more meaning if you look past the surface. Thanks for opening my eyes to it.

[@Koroto]

1. Yes. That Maggie panel is peak. 2. Believe it or not, my biggest spike in growth actually happened at that initial 3-5k you're probably referring to 😅 Since then, it's just been a series of occasional ups and downs. Obvs with bigger numbers growth also *seems* more exponential, but purely by single-week highs, I haven't had a massive spike or anything. I like to think that my passion for the stuff I'm making just comes across in the videos and translates into somewhat consistent growth, but who knows. Point is, nothing has really changed for me in the past couple of years - some things do better, some worse, but I've just kept chugging along 😅

[@damitscookie]

Would have been so dope if they did the horde scenes the same just with different characters 🤔

[@Nibelheim1989]

Wake up honey, it's Korotos time.

[@gogglebrains]

Haven't read the comics nor watched season 11 of the show, but I have to ask: does the Whisper War as portrayed in the show make literally any sense at all? It drove me nuts that the characters seemed to have completely forgotten the redirect techniques that they had used to control massive hordes as early as season 6 (and as recently as early season 9) and the final plan that defeats the Whisperers -- Daryl's "Burning Down the House" wagon -- is more or less exactly what I'd been yelling at my screen the entire time.

[@s.nifrum4580]

Redirecting the walkers is how they win the war in both the comic and the show They redirect them right off a cliff

[@vincenta8652]

You specifically said everyone following beta on the show to their death was bad but somehow willing to die in the comic is good?

[@samcorbett8783]

LET'S GOOOOOOO

[@nicoloreynolds4979]

Off topic but have they released the colored version of the comics?? I haven't been able to find them

[@Koroto]

The colored ones go up to like issue 71 right now I think.

[@nicoloreynolds4979]

@@Koroto oh ok, where can I find them?

[@Koroto]

Amazon's (comixology) probably the easiest. Not sure if there are physical copies though.

[@ubertutorials4872]

please tell me youre gonna do videos about the Daryl show

[@IcetrayYT]

Yes yes yes quadruple yes

[@josephmatthews7698]

I don't know man, people who have nothing to fight for are actually less dangerous if you ask me.

[@Koroto]

I think that is true when it comes to surviving, but not fighting, if that makes sense. Dumb example, I know, but a person with nothing to lose will set their entire community ablaze if that means winning - a person with something to lose will probably at least hesitate because it's not just their own life on the line. I don't think friendship powerups really exist in all-or-nothing battles and having no attachment to anything just gives you more degrees of freedom imo. When it comes to pure survival though, I definitely think having a purpose will get you further. 😅 That said, it's still a story, so it all will obvs depend on the author. Anime will always give friendship-screaming powerups, others might not. 😅

[@GraffitiGamingg]

Found this series late, binging & MAN I wish you stopped spoiling the comics for us “TV Only” fans. I read the comics until the end of all out war, excited to see what I miss while revisiting the show.. And spoiling Andrea’s death b4 I can see it is like.. 🙃 Otherwise, great series! Excited to finish the rest & see your opinion on the spin offs. Ricks, mainly

[@cheesy2929]

Magna should have walked through the gate with the herd as a walker. Not.. alive...

[@sheluvsbrian]

It’s a good day

[@Koroto]

Solid Sunday indeed. 👍

[@bishbosh4815]

Even the best part of season 10 wasn't as good as it couldve and shouldve been. I'm sorry but season 10 is overrated and disappointing compared to the Whisperer war in the comics, I don't understand why they changed so much and adapted moments but made them worse

[@Dachin55555]

3:33

[@rob.andrew]

In the show, Negan had so much potential to be an amazing character, but I HATE what they did with him. If that’s the direction they were taking him in the show, they should’ve killed him at the end of season 8. He’s not a redeemable character, and they’re forcing it way too much

[@jonathanmendez310]

Ngl I'm starting to dislike Maggie with her constantly hating on Negan like I get it but it has been so damn long like don't you got a son?!

[@kodencotter3498]

I thought andrea died in 10D lol🤨😂

[@karmitdafruge1]

Wow im early for once first even maybe

[@loganbacon7]

Ysssir

[@thewarriorking210421]

#notificationgang

[@christianmanka3884]

I still like this season. Sad to see everything be so negative.

[@Logan912]

Because, as an adaptation, nearly everything they changed was for the worse. Season 10 is certainly not one of the worst seasons of the show, but it could’ve been a lot better.