Why a Classic Halo From 343 Might be Bad | Halo Infinite's Burden of Innovation

[@theorangecarousel481]

Wow, this guy has been asking for a classic halo game for years! And now that 343 might actually give him what he wants, he still complains about it! This proves some people will complain no matter what.

[@martinhubinette2254]

Old things might not be as great as the time they came out. Halo 3 feels clunky AF, BioShock 1 is a chore to play etc. The old art style was good at the time but form should follow function, even in the universe. And mind you I'm sitting within 3 meters of my OG Xbox, Halo CE and 2 furthermore I have read a lot of the novels. I personally hate the inconsistencies within the Universe, DMRs and AR using the same bullets, Spartans being super fast brutal tanks but super sluggish in game. I can't help but to feel like if Halo would have done a Doom (and had a big break between games) then people would not be so negative to the changes to the sandbox or art style. It still looks similar to Halo, it plays similar to Halo but modernized, the fact that it isn't exactly the same wouldn't have mattered too much because we would just be happy that it's back.

[@yolivonhetz816]

Favyn is right, sure it's more "classic" but it's not going to be the same recipe for success that bungie stumbled upon when they made halo CE. I take Favyn's lack of trust for 343 as being the occasionally surprised pessimist rather than the frequently disappointed optimist. Which by me seems like a good idea. Although in gaming you've gotta remember that everything is a matter of perspective and preference so it's ok to disagree.

[@WpnsGrade]

LMAO

[@theorangecarousel481]

Guys you do know this is a joke right? It's word for word what favyn said in the beginning.

[@WpnsGrade]

Yes, that's why it's hilarious!

[@looinrims]

Forgable firefight, that's an innovation I think would be massive, we havent had firefight since Reach, and I think its return with even more options than Reach would be amazing

[@looinrims]

I dont know there, at least not without the One X, Halo missions have always been massive, even in Halo 4, not sure if forge could handle all the data, but Halo 5 has some massive ones too, but if 343 cant make forgable firefight they shouldnt even try forgable campaign missions, linear progression isnt reserved for gaming

[@ionyxgaming365]

Warzone firefight *cough

[@looinrims]

theres a reason its not just firefight, because it shares quite literally 0 similarities except fighting AI, I'm talking about good firefight, not a fucking frankenstein

[@Onxide]

Stangle exactly, it's WARZONE firefight, it's even in the title dude.

[@toasterqueer]

Or firefight-ifying multiplayer maps?

[@JoseLopez-ou6ww]

To be quite honest with you, I don’t care about Halo returning back to its roots, or for it to keep its modern style. I just care about 343 making a good ass game that works at launch and feels like I’m playing a complete game, not asking for more. 343 has never hit a game were it feels on point, and I want them to do this with infinite, I get that people want infinite to turn out how they want it to, but for me I just want to play a good halo game , it doesn’t need to be as popular as old Halos, just needs to be something that I can play with friends and have a good time.

[@brooksake9987]

Jose Lopez You are a gem, preach Jose.

[@allsystemsgootechaf9885]

Well said man

[@DeepRoot_]

Fuck yeah, that would be the shit, you can't go back in time, but you can remember that the reason people want to play games is to have a good time like you said. I'm done with all the pessimism and seriousness in this community. We just need a good time.

[@megaman37456]

I feel like Halo 4 was the closest 343 ever got to a fully functioning complete game, namely because it was a fully functioning complete game, which is why it is my favorite of the 343 Halo titles.

[@ThisHandleSystemCanGetNicked]

@@megaman37456 "namely because it was a fully functioning complete game" Ah, yes. Solid reasoning. Lol on a serious note though, campiagn was very short and gameplay was a pain in the ass.

[@YamaMX]

I went into this video thinking it'd be some material to get me through a jog, I came out of it thinking into the next day about all of the points made. You really nailed it and fully understand what made the legacy titles special. Well presented in every way, keep it up. Sub'd.

[@Eradifyerao]

Like a Halo TED talk ;-)

[@ViceSnipe]

This makes me look forward to that map design video even more.

[@ModernDayGunSlinger]

My primary reason for playing Halo are the fun, exhilarating campaigns. Too bad after the colossal failure that was Halo 5: Guardians I can't see how 343i could possibly fix the abysmal story they came up with. Showing a teaser trailer of a classic armor design and a warthog driving across the landscape of a Halo ring isn't nearly enough to get me hyped considering what I just stated, and honestly I think it's stupid for anyone to get hyped either. We didn't see anything about what Halo 6 will actually be, but many people have already decided that they want to purchase the game.

[@iamsuperiortoall.3888]

If I could influence Infinite, I'd have 343i keep most of the multiplayer and the campaign classic, but have spartan abilities as pickups in some maps and as options in forge.

[@TheGirthwormJim]

11:35 - oof... things 343 didn't think were important for Infinite

[@roboticle117]

We need to move forward not backwards halo 5's multiplayer was great, but it lacked good incentives to keep playing. The req system as a whole is a mess, what they need to do to keep players playing ranked is to give an armor piece exclusive to what division you get that season. THEN YOU GET BRAGGING RIGHTS CAUSE YOU HAVE THAT SWEET AMOR and warzone was meh. What I'm expecting with Halo Infinite is classic art style with modern gameplay which is sweet.

[@JimmmmmmmmmmmY]

Looking at the past is moving forward...Don't argue

[@kamez1049]

It would be cool if 343 would make whatever they want with Halo Infinite but multiplayer would include "Classic mode" with old mechanics.

[@halosoddworld1154]

Hey Favyn, haven't seen you in a while, how you holdin' up?

[@Nickdvorak1993]

343 won’t take the franchise backward with their mainline games. The MCC is supposed to support the veterans itch to have that “classic” Halo experience. With that said, Infinite will most likely feel like the original trilogy with comparable gameplay and familiar designs but overall 343 will remain to “evolve” Halo’s gameplay by changing the movement mechanics. Sprint and thruster, I feel, might be in Halo for a long time-mainly because most players aren’t willing to give those abilities up.

[@cousinvinnie6222]

I'm fine with that, as long as the gameplay is enjoyable and has the Halo atmosphere, I'm cool with some of the new mixing with the old.

[@cousinvinnie6222]

I've seen some of your comments, Stangle. Who are you to say who's an idiot based on personal preference? Some people like the new halo, others like the old, some want a mix of the two, and that's their preference. Don't think yourself in the right over such a subjective opinion.

[@cousinvinnie6222]

Are you trolling? What is that supposed to mean? That sounds more like a blanket statement than a proper response to me.

[@cousinvinnie6222]

Stangle Then feel free to enlighten me. Don't keep me in suspense.

[@Nickdvorak1993]

I never said I preferred it this way. I just made an objective point in which 343 will always attempt to innovate with each and every Halo game. In that case, you can bet Halo’s core mechanics will always change from game to game. It’s inevitable.

[@jacobstarr9010]

if It has to stay, I hope it’s halo 5 movement stripped of spartan charge and ground pound with one competitive playlist with no advanced mobility.

[@gamersinger5118]

JOHN- 117 That certainly sounds good.

[@JayJapanB]

Some people complain no matter what.

[@nowoodgraphite]

Going from H2 to H3 was perfect - the game still felt like Halo, with similar mechanics. Bungie didn't have to add new playable character mechanics, instead they added things like pick-up power-ups, Spike grenade(sticks to people and walls!) etc, without changing how the game feels. When I play Halo 5 it doesn't feel like Halo at all. Changing the playable character's core mechanics will definitely change how the game feels. I've never been into very fast paced game-play mechanics, and it was nice to have a game with a large community that was different from the others. An example I like to use is Paper Mario 64, and Paper Mario TTYD. The sequel to 64, TTYD, had the same playable character mechanics (Turn base with jump and hammer attacks), had the same leveling system but also allowed you to have a lot more badges to power up your characters, and traditional paper mario movements. The things the developers changed in the new one were things that would not change what paper mario is supposed to be, and give the player the same feeling when they played the original, even by adding a lot of extra content. IMO paper mario TTYD is a perfect sequel. I agree that developers want to add something innovative, but I also believe that you can do that without changing what your game is supposed to be like. H2 to H3 was very innovative, same thing with the paper mario games (before star sticker).

[@prototypMANIAC]

Crazy how right this was

[@FavynTube]

Well Infinite's not very classic in a lot of ways

[@shinoblitz9641]

1. For the maps you can’t blame it entirely on 343, players complained that the maps weren’t “competitive enough” so that’s why 343 made the look towards fair and competitive gameplay with everything, back in halo 4 there were some pretty good maps that gave some nice experiences, complex has a nice open space on one side, some close quarters fights inside the middle buildings, and another side where it’s a mix of both all the while you can jump on top of the buildings. Haven was a nice map where there were 4 major corners each with a ramp and they all meet in the middle but there’s a spire blocking it and there are also gravity lifts to send you to the middle. 2.for sandbox/weapons it’s hard to make weapons weapons that have a specific purpose while making it completely new, most of the weapons in halo have a purpose and there isn’t much else needed, weapons that seem like faction duplicates on one side they do more shield damage on the other side it does more health damage. The needler is an SMG that detonates after a few hits, the fuel rod cannon is just a rocket that bounces, it’s hard to make a gun that fits when all the roles are met, you expect them to make a gun that tracks you because if so it’ll be really weak like the H5 suppressor, scatter shot is fine, light rifle is cool, the H5 incineration cannon has a mode where it’s a grenade launcher and if charged it fires 4 blazing orbs that explode into smaller orbs upon impact, the binary rifle is a one shot kill but to make it fair it has a laser when you’re ADS. It’s hard to make a gun that’s not just an extra and have it balanced enough for actual play. And your examples like the energy sword and the gravity hammer weren’t really all that ground breaking excepting being iconic as a cool one shot melee weapon and grifball, the energy sword makes you move a bit faster and one shots players, the gravity hammer is pretty much a hammer with explosive impact and it might let you jump higher, other than that it’s not really all that special. As for your point with creativity and such halo 5 has the largest and most extensive forge and ability to share things than any other halo so idk why you have a problem with it, players can make things, make game modes to go with it, and upload it to a browser and once there other players need to just search the name of the map and download it. Your point with breakout to me sounds like “why are they making this game mode when players can do it and improve it” and the answer to that it to give a regular template, thats like asking why they make infection when they could instead make a slayer game where when someone dies on red team they switch to blue team and each team has specific abilities and specific weapons. And for the record breakout was meant to be that “search and destroy” game type, you only have one life, and you can win the game by eliminating the enemy team or capturing the flag. I get how you want resources to be available to other gametypes but it defeats the purpose of the other games. CTF is pretty much a bunch of players to capture a flag and if you add limited lives it’ll turn into elimination because everyone will go for the easier kills than the risk of attacking a base and stealing the flag to return it. To your base, slayer with limited lives is elimination again, you can already lower survivability in the game and neutral flag is already in game, pretty much the only thing breakout has that’s not available to the other game modes is limited lives but I’m pretty sure you can turn responding off. You make valid points because 343 halo is not like bungie halo however I feel like halo infinite will not be a totally classic halo because I don’t think they’ll get rid of sprint but if ya added at least have it be a timed sprint until recharged. Map design can be better, and hopefully everything is out at launch with free updates but there should be a good balance of competitive maps where everything is fair and dynamic maps where players can change the map either with ramming walls with vehicles, moving the objects points, or destroying the map with explosive. Honestly I hope that eventually there’s a large scale battle type with different phases but it’s like the halo reach invasion gamemode, like imagine UNSC attacking a covenant cruiser or something and first you play in ship combat to weaken the ship, once weakened you’ll spawn on the ship and you have to help transport a bomb, once the bomb is in place you defend it until evac is there and then you hightail it off the ship and watch the explosion. If during the first phase(ship combat) if the attackers die too much they run out of ships to attack with and have to retreat/lose the game, If the bomb takes too much damage it malfunctions and the attackers lose the game.

[@TekHardy]

Very good points man your one of the best commentors on KZbin you totally deserve more subscribers. 👍

[@andrewperkin7192]

Halo has so many subtle things in the gameplay that are huge from AI to weapon handling to maps It's why bungie was special I hope 343 have took this time played the halos again and wrote out what the need to do

[@userJohnSmith]

Excellent point about the maps. I think that more than anything has been the handicap of 5. The movement change has been freeing but playing 5 maps over and over again feels stale quickly. It doesn't help that the maps are kind of samey, even if they're all good in isolation.

[@ktinga1]

I honestly feel like the movement abilities are fine, minus Spartan charge, ground pound, and perhaps stabilizers. That's something that made me come back to playing Halo, because the gameplay felt slow to me because of the movement. But there does need to be more modularity in game design with innovation in gameplay, as you said.

[@method1692]

Again like you said, "many of fans are taking it as a chance, that the franchise as a whole will be taking it back to its roots" no one is 100% saying "yea this game is going to dope, halo is back babyyyyyy". What people are really saying is that maybe just maybe, 343 is going to do a better job than before. You should be happy that this could actually be a chance of them making a good game for once, rather then the trash that they consider games we've been receiving for the passed 8 years. If it doesn't workout then fuck halo I'm done with the franchise. Also have to understand that if this game fails, halo is pretty much done and finished. So expect them to make it perfect or their fucked, not just halo but 343. They have a terrible reputation so their future games will just be overlooked because of their failures as a company.

[@vikhdez9306]

Halo 5 has five big problems: - Maps are too small to handle enhanced mobility - Spartan Charge - Grenades are OP and abundant - Your shield's recharge is too slow - The game rewards retard players

[@EchoLocoCJ]

You're very underrated.

[@xPaulxDx99]

I want large maps, flyible pelicans, Driveable scarabs. Howcome we only see the rest of the battlefield in campaign, i wanna play the battlefield in campaign, multiplayer and i want to creat the battlefield. With what we have in forge now, i could only imagine if they broke the barriers and let us free to use everything. Every game would be a new experience, capturing that feeling I had playing the second mission in halo ce for the first time. Expect in every game. Sounds lit bro

[@toxilyptic3150]

Old style return but keep sprint

[@JimmmmmmmmmmmY]

In General it doesn't belong in halo...

[@chesney1995]

0:48 Great nade mate

[@Luculent]

Ah, the comment section, one of the worst places on KZbin. I've scrolled through so much crap that it's honestly laughable how much people seem to look at Halo and 343i in a negative light. I see people deny others' opinions because they don't match their own. I see shit like "343 Apologists" and "Halo 5 is trash and Halo can never be good while 343 makes it." I think that these are some of the most pointless arguments. If you want to argue, learn to not turn it into a yelling match and repeat the same shit over and over; actually have an intelligent conversation instead of screeching at each other like children

[@cousinvinnie6222]

Agreed, brother. Disgraceful. If you can't come to a respectful and logical conclusion, maybe you shouldn't be in the Halo community to begin with. Both sides have become so toxic that no one can come to a compromise anymore. It's disgusting.

[@crackedsucks4176]

Well, 343 Apologist, maybe people wouldn't look at 343 in such a negative light if they could game design their way out of a paper bag. Or, at the very least, ship a complete, functional game at launch doesn't crash in response to simple commands.

[@Luculent]

CrackedSucks ah, great pisstake. One thing though, what really is a "completed game"?

[@cousinvinnie6222]

And is that any reason to insult people who give 343 the benefit of a doubt? I'm no 343 apologist, I despise what they've done to Halo, but I would rather see them improve than constantly complain that they ruined Halo. All this constant negativity in the Halo community is getting tiresome and i'm bloody sick of it. Can we not come to a compromise by giving 343 the benefit of a doubt? Maybe, just maybe, they can make a good Halo game. I feel like they've been improving, what with the art style and feel that came with Halo Wars 2. Maybe something good will come of Infinite. We don't know. They may have messed up with 4 and 5, but maybe third time's a charm. Again, we'll have to wait and see.

[@crackedsucks4176]

+Ethan Luculent How about a game with more than five game modes that doesn't freeze for 2 minutes when somebody exits to the lobby too quickly after starting matchmaking or finishing an online game.

[@Dalvory]

Simply removing enhanced mobility won't magically return Halo to it's former glory. There's so much more than that. But that is a big step in getting the Halo we want, yes. It's just not the only thing. But I'm not sure if 343 realizes that. Heck, after all the heat enhanced mobility has gotten, I don't think they're going to remove it. I think they are going to try and find a way for it to work, which is impossible, but I don't think they know that. I can't remember a single map from Halo 5: Guardians, and that's because none of them stand out. They are all just a bunch of structures slapped together with little to no dynamic map elements to give the maps any flavor. What comes to mind when you think of Terminal? That crazy train that usually results in a hilarious death, and something you've gotta look out for when on the train tracks. What comes to mind when you think of Zanzibar? That massive wheel that you can use to gain higher ground. Now, not all maps are identified by their dynamic map elements, but they still play a big role in giving these maps identity. Something Halo 5's maps lack. Heck, even Halo 4 had better maps, and that game was already known for having one of the weaker map selections in the series.

[@eccentricjoe5410]

Thank you! I've been trying to explain to other people that Halo Infinite may not be this savior of halo, this may be a flop, we can't put too much faith in this game. I'm not turning down the fact the game may be good, but I just feel we need to be more careful with infinite

[@imthatbad]

I believe we will see a mix of old and new. We will see some more open, less linear campaign design and maps. We will still see enhanced mobility but I think level design can more free with the new engine and whatever adjustments they make to mobility can compliment gameplay. I am not one who hopes so much for classic mobility as i am for fun gameplay. But presentation is everything.

[@tamezzodiac2862]

Randall Abernathy if it has enhanced mobility I’m not buying I can’t stand that shit.

[@imthatbad]

tAmEz ZoDiAc yea and I dont blame you, if I really want to play an enhanced mobility shooter than i just play titanfall 2. But i also understand theres quite a few people who enjoy it and I highly doubt they just rip it away from them. I see halo 3 to 5 as a timeline of slow implementations to enhanced armor abilities. Regardless of how well it was done by 343i so i doubt theyd just cut them cleanly out.

[@tamezzodiac2862]

Randall Abernathy it will just die of anyway. Idk anyone who likes enhanced mobility Ik so many people that say if it would not be destiny mixed with cod and just go back to halo they would buy it. The old fans are secretly waiting and watching for a classic halo.

[@imthatbad]

tAmEz ZoDiAc I know a few. But what I'm getting at isnt that armor abilities will stay. No I want them gone myself I just dont think theyll get rid of them in one go. It may be the span of 2 maybe 3 games before we get a more similar halo 3 style gameplay mechanic.

[@orangedrone]

A higher fidelity version of the original style is exactly what the franchise needs to get back to the top spot it used to hold. H1 came out around 2000, that's almost 20 years ago. The differences between H1 and Infinite will be night and day while still retaining the essence of what made the game unique.

[@happyhasky291]

Man this video has aged like a fine wine. In short,343i is a mediocre studio but tasked with innovating one of the greatest and most influential gaming franciase ever created,it's asking too much of them,yes they are doing a great job remastering halo 1 and 2,but that's it.they chose the easy route to innovate halo,even if that means having the risk of halo not being special anymore.but for them,as long as there's new halo coming out,as long as people feel like it's new,then it a job well done.for them,making halo is just a job,even if they know what makes halo special and what they are doing is killing this franciase,they don't care!why?because they don't have the ability to care,because they are a mediocre studio.

[@ninjaslash52_98]

Dear god those halo 3 custom game clips I FELT the nostalgia

[@darkun3287]

Unpopular opinion: I like sprint and thruster pack/halo 5 movement mechanics.

[@Onxide]

It's not an unpopular opinion tho, a huge chunk of the community agrees lol

[@tristanbackup2536]

I don't know why people don't like the mechanics, I've been around since the beginning since CE whem I was 7, (mine you all I still own them all in Limited Editions & love all the games to date), I've always dreamt to play how they move & how powerful they are in the books, now we got that in Halo 5. Don't people know that's how Spartans move & fight in expanded lore! Thier supersoldiers! Not being in a war zone with power walking speed...

[@tristanbackup2536]

Yeah. I do own them all. ( ._.) I do already know the these tricks & do use them greatly to date, as well to add the grenade jumping & the canceled sword-lunge thing to the glitch bouncing of edges to the Battle Rifle rapid fire glitch as well. I could say the same with the Halo 5 mechanics where you gotta combo them correctly to various task such as skull to hard to reach areas & terminal hunting other easter egg goodies, specially combat (we are arguing two game types that play different & comparing them against each, it's very objective base), if you not killing people while their using it, might want change up your strategy as a suggestion 👍. The thing is mate, I not blinded by nostalgia as much as it's good to look back onto sometimes, that's what the MCC is for. I do not want the next Halo game as playing as a Spartan to simply rip out the mechanics to a walking tank again, (as a Marine or any other UNSC personell I wouldn't mind the simpler mechanics again for that 😂), wouldn't make sense lore-wise too, a culling back maybe, in the end, I do not care. Just want good gameplay which I believe to myself to be excellent & with better campaign storytelling which was piss-poor in Halo 5.

[@fridaynightnicktoons6885]

I hate the movement gimmicks. Fuck that stupid shit breaking gameplay and ripping off crisis. Takes away skill gameplay like armour Locke did. I mean why freeze in mid air when zooming in? Is this a mlg 12 year old music video? Am I gonna hear Lady Gaga bullshit?!!

[@doofy3111]

Thats a dangerous opinion

[@toasterqueer]

Halo Online is living proof that classic Halo gameplay can work in the modern era. Whether or not 343 can deliver on this is yet to be seen. Either way, I'm excited to see what's brought to the table in Infinite!

[@spid3y4hire88]

Of course it’ll be bad cuz shooters have changed. Look at cod4, they brought it back and barely anyone plays it. Try playing halo without sprinting, on a big ass map with teams of 4. U may think u want that back but no it won’t be fun. Those days are over. Halo is a franchise that needs to end. COD is struggling and theyve been on top for years. Halo dropped off after Reach. It doesn’t belong in this era anymore. In an era of fortnite, bf, overwatch, it’s outdated and the gameplay doesn’t appeal to the masses. I miss the era of gears, cod, halo, etc but we r done with that

[@redenginner]

Meanwhile doom comes back with nearly the same gameplay with extra bits glued on and it gets rave reviews and massive sales. High enough sales it gets a switch port over a year after launch.

[@nomo2746]

Just to point of one of your flaws in your statement. Those huge maps your talking about were made for 16 players. So no duh if it's just 4v4 it's gonna be a bit long.

[@spid3y4hire88]

Nonoa Aiono i was referring to the regulat maps. Those are large by today's standards

[@creeperboom8635]

Lets be real here 343i has potential we have seen that with h4's campaign and to a lesser extent h5's multiplayer and they have created a somewhat balanced experience with halo wars 2 that also has elements of the old artstyle meaning that they are a) listening to the fans and b) are capable of making a good hell maybe just maybe a great halo game.

[@yamato.takeru.no.mikoto]

why don't they just... like... delete Halo 4 and 5?

[@iVenture01]

Halo Reach is a mixture of classic and new. Please 343 be smart and meet in the middle for everyone needs.

[@lonelystarboy]

Oh now is bad!?!?

[@lonelystarboy]

I'm only 50s though the video lol

[@Supermario0727]

I'm getting the impression he doesn't actually have a consistent opinion; he just says whatever is contrary to popular belief. It gets views, I guess.

[@TheChadPad]

xD

[@spacejunk2186]

TImestamp for the moment he says that pls.

[@lonelystarboy]

John Stuart Hahaha, It gets views I guess...

[@Ben-fq1lj]

That remake of haven is awesome not gonna lie. Much better design of where halo maps should go (love the dark theme of it).

[@ziratheape3061]

I would be satisfied with a game that plays like Halo 5, but looks like an actual Halo game. By that I mean the elites dont look/act like brutes in the cutscenes, and grunts dont look like E.T. ripoffs. Also, fuck the promethians.

[@zyriuz2]

The thing about classic halo is that the mechanics are balanced and they did evolve with each game up to reach, i think halo infinite should live on the playerbase, design an open game thats a mere clear canvas for customgames, like just give us the settings to disable the abilities and build our own experience in custom playlists and games, community has driven halo forwards since 2004 if we count halo 1 PC, and thats what i belive is the most important things that a new halo should give us, i absolutely love new mechanics and new abilities but it comes at the expense of that it does get more complicated and not just the simple instant fun that halo had in the classic era.

[@blunthonesty8633]

I honestly think it will take a masterpiece from 343 to convince me to try another game from them. I did not appreciate being blatantly lied to about Halo 5's campaign. I hope lots of people boycott this one to be honest.

[@JerryMeehanJr]

Loved this. Spot on. I got myself an xbox one when halo 5 came out. I beat it in a day then jumped online and hated it. Couldnt stand it and i returned everything a day later. Continued onward with my ps4 and destiny. As destiny went on i realized I really wanted it to just be a halo game. fast forward years later to 2 weeks ago i finally gave in a got myself an xbox one s and halo 5 and havent stopped playing it. My halo itch was scratched and although it takes FOREVER to get a match going, i still love it and find myself getting close to that same pleasure of winning a match as i did in 2-reach. Im hoping whatever comes next gets it right. Its felt off since it has been 343 but I’m sure they’ll get it right soon enough.

[@davemarx7856]

Finally. Someone with a sense of reality and not jumping blindly on a hype train.

[@wolfenbred9363]

It's simple really, 343 Halo is simply following the Star Wars Prequel example: Number 1 is kinda shit, Number 2 is meh, and Number 3 is gonna be on par with the original.

[@mystery785]

In all honesty I actually like halo 4 Spartans design because I'm so used to it now Halo 2 was the only Master Chief based game i played when i was younger so i wasn't super in love with the armor and stuff i slowly became a halo nerd, but this was at the time 343 took over, and 343 isn't the reason i fell in love with halo, it's the older games I've never played when they were popular But I'm so used to 343 games that it's just weird to bring back the old art style so fast

[@Marisa_arts]

What about armor innovations? Thanks is one thing that you had forgotten about, Halo 5 lacked that variant but 4 didn't, Halo 4, Reach and 3/ODST where my favorite for the armor. The amount one can mix and match each piece to show how one would view themselves and how one can be an individual. Halo 5 could have had resources put into it for that area if they hadn't made separate and detached modes from the core game. Right now. We need to tell them about this very important detail to the game. If not. It can be a potential flop and mark on the franchise. Map innovations and with base innovations have to be balanced but it can work. All of the things you said can work. We, 343i and just the community need to talk and evolve Halo to something better.

[@ACTemjin]

I honestly don't think Halo will ever again reach its old popularity no matter what 343 does. There's a generational divide within the player base that no game is going to be able to bridge at this point. That might not be the case if Halo had never drifted away from the classic formula, as players would have grown up seeing that shooters didn't HAVE to have mobility/ADS to be fun. A classic Halo, even if done right, still wouldn't appeal to younger people who grew up playing shooters where things like sprint, ADS, loadouts etc are viewed not as series-specific gimmicks but as baseline trappings of the genre.

[@colonelsarge2866]

The change in art style has pissed my off. Halo 4 and 5 have the best art style and gameplay imo

[@sethnelson9795]

Enjoyed the video. A classic return doesn't necessarily mean it will be good--map design, community involvement, etc. all go into making a successful game. And in that respect, there's no disagreement. Where I would throw my perspective in is that while Breakout could potentially be made in Forge, back at launch, I feel like it was meant to be all new game mode akin to Firefight with ODST (the competitive counterpart to Warzone in Halo 5 as a new mode), but it came to be lumped in with any other objective variant. But that's the thing--it was a synthesis of CTF and SWAT that they thought warranted a new category (as in, it's not like SWAT is to Slayer, it's very different from either CTF or SWAT), and I'm fine with them experimenting with those things as long as they still have what came before! Fun things to think about. I'll probably enjoy Infinite regardless!

[@AMPStorm]

This upload was really spot on dude. I'm a nee school Halo player. I love the high skill H5 movement however I believe that it is to taxing for a default controller. If everybody had an elite that would be great. For the sake of casuals and new players they should streamline the controlls and cut things out.

[@chrisistrippi]

IMO The classic combat mechanics are perfect for console/controller users but after playing a bit of classic Halo on PC, there is a lot left to be desired in terms of movement and speed of the game. Especially if you’re someone who plays Quake/UT.

[@tusubasa94]

I'm a little bit disapointed, Favyn. These type of videos can be misunderstood by some people :D It's your channel and feel free to make any content you want, but this is a very criticial time period right now. I think it would be better if we would discuss how Run&Gun (HCE-H:Odst) could work properly for Infinite and how we can improve upon this formular. There are a lot of ways to make a game attractive without sprint, most of them you even mention in your video. The most selling game in the past few years (Overwatch with 35 Mil copies) is focussed around Run & Gun Gameplay. If I'm not mistaken, only one character can sprint. Surely there are ways to move faster around the map, but so has Halo. (vehicles, teleporters, man cannons, equipment like gravity lifts) We shouldn't motivate 343 to bring out another game with lifeless, repetitive maps and an unbalanced weapon sandbox. Take the S.A. away and give the power to your sandbox & enviroment..this is IMO the solution.

[@FavynTube]

Hmmm. You can look at my video that way if you'd like. Or you can look at it as me saying "hey guys, don't think this will be easy, if you attempt a classic Halo game make sure you keep some of these concepts in mind" ;)

[@tusubasa94]

yeah, you're right and don't get me wrong, I agree to most of what you said. Some people will be able to differentiate, but other people will take this as an oppurtunity to question / attack the people supporting the Run&Gun Formular. I think that the title is just a little misleading. Maybe I'm looking to much into it and because it is a sensitive topic right now (because no one really knows what type of gameplay we will have in Infinite) I mean, I'm still concerned, but on the other hand I respect the decision to delay Infinites Release Date. Maybe this is the sign that they are finally willing to put more thoughts into their next installments. We'll have to wait and see. Btw., I hope we will see more from you and Wpns Grade together in a podcast talking about this type of stuff.

[@doodsalot270]

I'm honestly more pissed off that the massive backlash to Halo 4 caused them to practically scrap their original plan for "The Forunner Trilogy" remember when it was called that? Remember? No? I do. I was hyped as fuck. Halo 4 IMO has the best story of any of the Halo games. I remember way the fuck back when I first saw Tejbz playing the Halo Reach Beta, I remember the criticisms and 30-60 minute videos explaining why Reach had a shit story and poor character development. I remember when there was a war between the old guard claiming Halo 3 was the best and the new claiming Reach. I remember when out of the blue people switched from saying 3 was the best to 2 was the best en masse as opposed to the rare few that had always said it. Every single time a new game has come out, MAYBE excluding 3, the community erupted into civil fucking war. I'm pissed at 343 and at Us because Halo 4 was the most canonically accurate depiction of Chief they ever made, I FELT for him and Cortana in 4, something that I couldn't do with the previous games beyond the age of 11, because of how superficial the emotions conveyed by the game were. I can name literally every game that has ever made me cry, and at the time, Halo 4 was one of only 3 that managed to make me do it multiple times in a single sitting. Halo 5 had a minimal amount of that, probably more due to Locke than back peddling, but MY hope for Infinite is that they finally, FINALLY, return to The Forunner Trilogy with all the emotion, the pain, the intensity, the trauma, and the depth and subtleties that Halo 4's story had. Inb4 "REEEEEEEEEEEE HALO FOUR SUX BECUZ NOT TRU HALU REEEEEEE AI IZ SHIT GAMPLAY IZ SHIT" @you I said Story, not the complete package Calm down.

[@michaelt3172]

Forgeable firefight would be amazing

[@TheHouseontheHill]

It’s great to see you back, Favyn! Loved the video and I’m looking forward to be future content!

[@TheNewFNShow]

Bungie ruined it years ago when they released Reach. They sold 12 million copies of Halo 3 and decided the go in a new direction and completely change the core mechanics and weapons. Alot of people hated that game and it lost alot of people. Then 343 makes Halo 4 and expands upon that. Which still blows my mind. Everyone hated that game for its entire run. Everyone wanted No Sprint, 4 Shot BR and no load outs back then but they wouldn't do it. I like Halo 5 for what it is and have fun playing it but it only sold 5 million copies and its just not Halo.

[@TarsonTalon]

I mean, if you have traditional controls, but then have the same open and exposed battlefields as Halo 5, it's not gonna be good. There won't be enough cover then to use traditional movement mechanics. To make the traditional movement work better, you have to make compelling maps.

[@marcolizzetti265]

I hope they'll deliver; I don't want Halo to die.

[@GaijinNomad787]

I agree. I don’t want 343 to go back to old Bungie mechanics. I just want the old artstyle and the old feeling of space military and Halos. Not this space power rangers bullshit.

[@blindvalkyrie9352]

in terms of initiative designs that 343 did you failed to mention the mantis. there was really nothing like it in a halo game till H4 and it made some really fun mini games like Minotaur

[@FavynTube]

Great example! Though I didn't talk much about vehicles and moreso mention them and pick ups as a foot note. But yes the mantis and its ability to create modes like Minotaur is exactly what I'm talking about ( though to be fair that mode existed in H3 with the brute chopper)

[@blindvalkyrie9352]

I would very much like to see equipment return, and I swear the fucking mantis better be in all future halo games. I would also love to see more team focused vehicles, in my opinion thats what makes the Falcon better than the Hornet. the Wasp seemed to just fit a hole that people wanted instead of making something new just like what you were talking about.

[@dman_v2]

The Elephant was so much fun bring it back!

[@zeg197]

Amazing video yet again Favyn, always like to hear what you think about Halo Infinite

[@X3GibbleX3]

Honestly current H5 Arena settings are badass. I still hope we have a classic halo game but maybe classic movement with dash would be okay.

[@JimmmmmmmmmmmY]

That's still not classic.

[@X3GibbleX3]

@@JimmmmmmmmmmmY it's not but i wouldn't mind it

[@JimmmmmmmmmmmY]

Well you're opinion sucks, Halo can be better without these stupid abilities and sprint.

[@X3GibbleX3]

@@JimmmmmmmmmmmY your* and it's just my opinion. I'm a very big advocater for classic halo but I'm simply saying that classic halo with thrust/dash could work.

[@trallaton]

We just need two separate slayer playlists honestly. And before someone says this will split up the community, hear me out. The community is already split. Might as well satisfy both as much as possible to retain players.

[@FavynTube]

So which community do you make the maps for? Which community do you balance the sandbox around? Who gets all the other playlists? Who gets campaign?

[@trallaton]

@@FavynTubeClassic could use remastered maps. This would avoid any scaling issues. While the newer gameplay playlist would utilize the newer maps. These maps would be consistent to the scaling of the newer gameplay. The sandbox would differ depending on the playlist. As for all of the other playlists, that's still up for debate, along with campaign. However, my point was that if they added two separate slayer modes, the effect of players being unhappy would be reduced quite a bit considering that slayer is the most popular playlist. It's not about making everyone happy. That's pretty impossible. It's about making as many people happy as possible.

[@FavynTube]

You're just reducing the resource pool for each size And as a classic fan I don't want old remastered maps. I want a NEW game. The idea that we want old stuff is incorrect. We want a new game built on the original formula. What you're asking for is 2 games worth of resources put in to one. At that point just make 2 games and do both justice

[@trallaton]

@@FavynTube I don't know man... I'm just spit balling ideas. Perhaps the allocation of resources to satisfy both parties has been the reason the gap between Halo 5 and Infinite has been so large. I just think that the idea shouldn't be discounted. I'm sure 343i could implement it in a better fashion than I have just now. But yeah, I'm a classic fan as well. However, I understand where the industry has unfortunately went and satisfying both sides in some way, shape, or form, is paramount to the success of Infinite.

[@guesswhothis]

All I am saying is Let's just see what will happen next year. Idk what will happen but let's see

[@megaman37456]

I feel like a purely classic mainline game would deal a huge blow to the current community. Like it or not the Classic Halo purists, are outnumbered 100 to 1 by people who either A) Enjoy 343's Halo and don't mind change B) Don't care how Halo changes so long it's in a playable state at launch This is the reality. Classic Halo fans are the loud minority these days, yes we have MCC, but that's the closest I'm willing to bet 343 is going to get to making a "purely classic Halo". Namely because look at how a LOT of classic fans call out people who somewhat enjoy 343's Halo games. If I was 343 I wouldn't want to pander to players who think that just because they've been around since the beginning entitles their opinions to be taken more seriously than newcomers opinions. Granted there is a line for new opinions you don't cross, but seriously the Classic Halo community is now synonomus with the CoD community from way back in 2012 in terms of toxicity and it disgusts me that I actually used to be a part of it.

[@Hedgehog1039]

I guess the problem is the new games and the old games play like totally different games. 343 shot themselves in the foot by taking it in the direction they did; essentially cutting the community in half. It would be imposssible to please at this point I believe. The hate of the new games is very understandable (due to the huge gameplay differences). I don't consider myself a part of any 'community' because in my experience, any large community is horrendously toxic. The sad truth is Humans are much better at being irrational and selfish than being objective and reasonable.

[@megaman37456]

@Hedgehog 1039 It's not 343's fault, on any level outside marketing really. If anyone is to blame it's the community for holding one company to the standards of an entirely different company. If anything the community should have EXPECTED drastic changes when 343 took over. I personally like the direction 343 took Halo's gameplay. They've managed to add multiple different layers of variety to the game, sure maybe not everyone needed it, but a lot of players did. The problem is that now that we have a new dev heading up Halo the Classic fans believe they are entitled to dictate what's good for the franchise just because "They were here when Bungie was in charge" and let's be honest when talking about 343, Classic fans expectations are like 90% unrealistic. Ok so the game sucks for some people now, guess what? That's called evolution, that's how evolution works and how it always will work. Not every single evolutionary state is a utopia for every single being in existance, there are gonna be complaints, some petty, some legit. The fact is Classic fans have yet to come to the realization that Halo isn't THEIR franchise, it's Microsofts and by an extension 343's. Sure this MAY hurt their bottom line at the end of the day, but who knows? Ok ranting aside. There's a very easy way for 343 to make a GENUINE classic playlist: In Halo 5 343 introduced the Relic Energy Sword, basically the energy sword from Halo 3, so why not make "Relic" varaints for all weapons managing their accuracy and firepower to the way they were in Halo 3 and strip the players of all Armor Abilities, boom perfect classic playlist and it only takes about an hour for the devs to replace the weapons on the map in forge. This way the new players are happy, and the classic fans get some kind of consolation. Halo doesn't have to be strictly Classic or strictly Modern. The option should be both. Classic playlist with classic weapons, Modern playlist with modern settings. Problem solved. The thing is Classic Halo fans want EVERY element of 343 Halo to cater to them, they don't WANT to share, this is what boils my blood. We don't even need 2 seperately designed games, just a few weapon variants that could most likely be progammed in within a couple of months and yet people screech about removing sprint from all aspects of the game because they can't adapt to people who actually use it intelligently. This is the same petty bullshit complaints we've seen in gaming since fucking Goldeneye 64. Someone uses a legitimate strategy to win and the loser always responds with "well it's not fair for us." or some other nonsense. My point being that Halo 6 is almost 100% guranteed to be the furthest thing from Classic Halo that you can imagine. Sure it may LOOK like Classic Halo due to the art style but it's 343, I gurantee you we'll see a complete overhaul of the core game once again.

[@nhilist5774]

You can't talk about a classic halo game without mentioning the story. 343 stories fall flat for me every time,especially in halo 5 where the story trailer basically mislead us with the promise of an intriguing conflict between chief and locke, what we got definitely wasn't that. If 343 started with multiplayer then in my eyes its already not going to live up to classic halos

[@KingNOOB-kj7vz]

Favyn : I agree with you 343 cannot make a and original Halo game and that kind of where they cannot take away their stupid sprint mechanics and their shitty modern day shooter mechanics But When you were saying that if they were to make the game play simple like it used to be making everything how are used to be what if Yes what if they decided to put all of their efforts into invading the story in the campaign I mean right now we can only hope and it’s good to keep a negative message in our mind and keep our hopes low so if they do surprise us with an old halo experience then we can be even more excited I mean right now we can only hope and it’s good to keep a negative message in our mind and keep our hopes low so if they do surprise us with an old halo experience then we can be even more excited I hope that their Innovacion goes towards the story and I hope that their time with MCC made them see what halo actually should’ve been although I do not like the remastered graphics of any of the halo games due to the fact that they change the size and a little different lower pieces such as making there aliens in halo 2 look ugly instead of sleek spiky and cute but otherwise If we lose our way with halo we lose our way with Xbox - Phil Spencer

[@ethanguist194]

I’m all for sprinting and maybe some spartan abilities cause I want 343 to have some twist on the franchise that’s their own, I don’t want them to be a carbon copy of bungie

[@eliarevalo]

Lol, it might not be what you want, but a Halo 3 part two is what you are going to get. I remember when Reach added bloom. “Ughhh make it like Halo 3” and then Halo 4 came out, addressed the bloom. “Ughhh remove the armour abilities. After that, that Halo 5 came out, largely removing the armour abilities, like a proper Jet Pack, Camo module, hologram. “Ughhh Halo 5 is shit, must be the art style and sprint” Seriously, I hope this game blows and they go in a direction, that basically is a big fuck you to all the fans. I will be enjoying the game that isn’t Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo ODST, Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5.

[@truexenith8596]

Of course there are cynical people. There’s evidence that 343’s listening, but people like you just refuse to hear it.

[@casecao8412]

Did you watch the video at all?

[@solarwind3656]

The scary thing about the maps is that the cartographers and the curators for MM are all in on it. They don't want unique forge maps. They want outer circles and inner circles with vertical ledges and pits.

[@hexreapers162]

Flippant Solutions the cartographers don't exist anymore.

[@jimmyjanovich3438]

All these mates who abandoned halo for years to come back in and cry their way to ruining another when halo 5, 4 years later is still awesome, should wake up and realize they can play the old ones and see for themselves that the community is 10× better and make those games experience rough as hell.

[@eazyelof4283]

god damn you are so good at presenting your logic and detailing every aspect. I'm loving your videos. Do you have a history of playing Halo professionally or something? How did you gain this knowledge

[@geoffreymejia9492]

I hope its open world. Would be nice. Tbh, i dont want a halo game like halo 3, i want some innovation.

[@Hedgehog1039]

Trust me, most of us don't want a copy. In fact, that's what Favyn has stated in this video and many others. We want a game that feels and plays like a classic Halo but innovate on top of that :)

[@johnny44937]

At this point whether halo has sprint or not it will still be fun idc but i wouldnt mind a classic gameplay for the pvp side But would rather keep the sprint mechanisms for firefight or warzone if it comes back what do you think favyn do you think sprint should be kept for the pve side only BUT with all these changes that 343 is doing MY ONLY ONE PROBLEM IS AND HEAR ME OUT is the spartan iv armor because i dont want to see the big crouch space diaper thats one thing i liked about 343 armor at this point id rather sacrifice halo 5 movement just for the artstyle i hope they do a mix without the big space diaper

[@user-og9nl5mt1b]

why does the promithians use human like weapons , aren't they extremely advance soldiers to take out flood ;(( , they should have include unique weapons of some sort. , I agree with your video

[@manateemilk1]

Mobility mechanics enhance the game tremendously

[@Hedgehog1039]

I have to disagree with your wording. They didn't 'enhance' the games. They completely changed how they play. Enhancing something suggests improving upon and innovating on an already established system/thing. Whereas the established mechanics were more or less thrown out in favour of a new system. Adding more enhanced mobility to a game like Crysis on the other hand IS what we could call enhancement.

[@TheInfiniteFrequency]

Not much has evolved with CS:GO and the game is still extremely popular. Why does Halo has to have base gameplay changes? I think Halo should evolve in some other way other than base mechanics. At this point I'm not even remotely excited about Halo Infinite, I'm just too skeptical. Golden age of Halo is ancient history to me. Excellent games aren't produced anymore and most games are packed with microtransactions which I'm just not willing to accept.

[@Randompancakes12345]

Another great video with points 343 really should consider. Thanks Favyn.

[@fallencrusader2975]

I hope 343 sees this video becuase this video seems to be a great guide on how to make a good classic halo game.

[@cronadojo8385]

I don’t want Elites to be built like Gears of War characters, don’t lie to us in the marketing like with 5, don’t be stupid and change a hallmark like the SPNKr, and mostly, if they can’t pay homage to Halo, they need to go make a different game instead

[@Mugen_band]

A couple years ago, I disliked halo 5 a lot but I’ve gotten around to playing it again with a fresh set of eyes and came to realize that I actually like it for what it is and I have underestimated it completely. Sure there’s much room for improvement but I wonder what the reaction would be if in fact they do make a classic experience that isn’t so good, will people look back fondly on halo 5? Or will they just lose hope in the franchise altogether???

[@MainGoldDragon]

Wow this guy has been asking for a classic game Halo for years and now that 343 might actually give him what he wants he still complains about it. This just proves that some people complain no matter what.

[@anthonyhorvath5224]

I think halo infinite needs to just look classic and play classic but at the same time have some Halo 5 settings. This is the only way halo will be fixed.

[@MJSGamingSanctuary]

The term I believe your searching for in the intro of this video is one word. "SKEPTICAL" And for those like you Favyn and I know that word doesnt mean you automatically will hate something it means you want to see facts. Not some shiney new thing. Hell to make matters more clear the Pokemon community still is obessed over "shiney" pokemon XD.

[@michaelt3172]

I hope 343 watches this

[@adremas8228]

Bro 343 didn't successful halo 5 because they didn't leasing to fan and they didn't have enough time to build new halo game because mcc and spartan strike and assault but now they had 4 years working with out any working any other halo will maybe halo wars 2 but it just one halo not only that they successful at halo wars 2 maybe they will buld a great halo game in the end but it's the last chance for 343

[@michaelwoolley2571]

The new Halo, needs to go back to its roots if this game and franchise want to survive. History shows that, the new style of halo is terrible and is not as popular as the older classic halo's.

[@optumhimselfhalo3505]

Hopefully these new guys at 343 can do some good work.

[@kambonwilliams701]

I disagree. I think Halo 5's multiplayer is unique and completely addictive. I also think that warzone is awesome. No other FPS shooter on the market offers what Halo 5 offers and I think 343 need to continue in that direction. Old Halo is great but I do not want to go back to having my movement limited in that way. I would like to see 343 do Halo in a new engine (which looks to be happening) and I would like to see them go 3rd person on the campaign (would bring in a ton of new fans--just steal the Wildlands technique). Also get rid of the rag doll body physics. The game also has to become more mature in how it depicts violence. Basically take the vibe of the live action Halo Reach trailer and turn that into a game.

[@teespoopie842]

Holy shit this kid is a fucking genius. Preach bro 🙏

[@Slender_Man_186]

Can they just give MCC a custom games browser already?

[@GUNDAMSTARX]

We need water vehicles in Halo; it's time.

[@filipelouro1482]

Thank you so much for talking about this, 343 and the community needed to hear this. Love it ! Please mate, keep it up !🤘💪

[@4PK0WVE]

Same thing happened on Instagram what is going on here I don't got Xbox live I just play offline Halo and here comes the bed days of 343 installations