Why are Industrial Pis so expensive?

Find out more about PiBox and Kubesail: pibox.io/?ref=geerlingguy
Everything else I referenced in this video:
- Entry form for PiBox Giveaway: www.jeffgeerling.com/pibox
- Lincoln-Binns CM4 Enclosures: lincolnbinns.com/shop/interne...
- Onlogic Factor 200 Series: www.onlogic.com/computers/ind...
- fieldcloud SAS: fieldcloud.com
Support me on Patreon: / geerlingguy
Sponsor me on GitHub: github.com/sponsors/geerlingguy
Merch: redshirtjeff.com
2nd Channel: / geerlingengineering
#RaspberryPi #IoT #sponsored
Contents:
00:00 - Bomb-proof? Really?
01:15 - Industrial Pis cost more
02:05 - Lincoln-Binns CM4-Box
03:17 - What makes a Pi 'industrial'?
04:30 - Onlogic Factor 201
08:20 - Milü-X - explosive environments
14:38 - What goes into the final price
16:11 - Why use a Raspberry Pi?
17:54 - PiBox Giveaway

[@marcogenovesi8570]

"there are industrial raspberry pis that are built to run in the most toxic and explosive environments on Earth" Good, I need that case to connect it to Twitter

[@JeffGeerling]

hahaha

[@BenCos2018]

Lmao

[@BenCos2018]

@@BuccarooRanch I agree There's a reason I'll never be joining that platform haha

[@pnnytx]

best computer to browse /b/ on 4chan

[@queenannsrevenge100]

You win, sir. 😄

[@PanelPrint]

Let me introduce myself. My name is John Binns. I designed the motherboard and metalwork in Lincoln Binns Pi-Box Pro. I just flew in from Madeira yesterday evening and found Jeff had released this video. I had to laugh when I saw my old friend Matthew Smith of Fieldcloud was in the same video, there was even one of our enclosures housing his NS-Box computer. We will be seeing him in about 6 weeks when he comes to UK. The reason I mention this is because we sell to people like Matthew so he can make himself an industrial computer. We are not selling him the computer, we can sell him the parts including the motherboard. We can make custom holes for antennae for example and print his logo on the front. This is in contrast to Onlogic who are selling the fully finished item complete with software support. There is an exception to the above. We sell complete computer kits for Pi3 and Pi4 via distributors with no printing or custom holes required, and now we have one for the CM4 with NVMe which we have not sold yet. I managed to purchase a handful of CM4s in Austria and smuggled them into UK via a German friend because they would not sell them to me directly. I will have a word with Jeff and see if a couple of these could find their way into this blog subscribers' hands. Thanks for watching. Thank-you Jeff.

[@MatthewSmithFR]

Hello John, it was wonderful to see Lincoln Binns featured in Jeff's latest video and to have been able to highlight your brilliant work on the original ns-box product, One thing that I will always value is your advice on thermal dissipation and heatsinking, especially during the time fieldcloud was torture testing the ns-box in the middle of the Arabian desert. I fully recommend without hesitation to anyone considering aluminium enclosures for electronic hardware to contact Lincoln Binns and leverage their expertise and advice! Wishing you all the very best John, Martyn and the rest of the Lincoln Binns team in Cowfold. Looking forward to seeing you all again.

[@PanelPrint]

@@MatthewSmithFR Very generous of you Matthew. I will buy the first round. -John

[@Spelter]

Oh boy, smuggling is right, they are sold out for months to no end. I can't finish my 3D printer and had to switch to the Orange Pi in hope Klipper works with it.

[@juliedunken1150]

Let me introduce myself. My name is Ellon Musk and I am the CEO of Tesla and SpaceX, I am the richest man in the world. This is just my stealth account. I will smuggle cars and rockets so they can get in viewers hands! Thank you for watching, thank you Jeff

[@juliedunken1150]

@@MatthewSmithFR hello mathematician Matt

[@HemalChevli]

These certifications not only cost a lot but also take a lot of time. I designed two products for IECEx intrinsic safety and it's been over 8 months to get the certificate.

[@spvillano]

Just think, that's easy compared to getting a medical device certified. Yours was like jumping through a set number of consecutive, shrinking flaming hoops, for medical devices, add in juggling flaming chainsaws while going through thrice as many staggered and randomly sized flaming hoops. With the higher cost of, if the precautions fail to detect a hazard, lives could easily be lost.

[@trevorvanbremen4718]

@@spvillano ... but there's 'backups' available... a.k.a. the remaining 7.999999999 billion people on the planet

[@spvillano]

@@trevorvanbremen4718 the industrial version is much more expensive than the "regular" model for a reason and typically is out of the budget for those same people.

[@trevorvanbremen4718]

Some people have trouble understanding satircal sarcasm!

[@spvillano]

@@trevorvanbremen4718 hard to see a face or hear the tone of voice with text.

[@mme725]

You mentioning Raspberry Pi bombs instinctively made me wonder where Redshirt Jeff is 😂

[@aromaticsnail]

He probably had to be physically restrained to avoid the armageddon

[@sexualsmile]

kzbin.infoPF77M2V0UYs?feature=share

[@saadanasilmamuna2880]

Gentlemen, do not mix the root cause with consequences. Rocket control system were made in Ukraine long before your birth, the first ones being built on vacuum tubes... But regarding the armadeggon - certain nations are inclined to chauvinism, imperialism and government organised assassinations. Using Pi's against these formations is natural and normal. Last but not least ... anybody being on the scene long enough already knows who Jeff is. No room for wonders and surprises.

[@chrisrice2598]

Tytuguyfu yuuu ttis your inew utiguuwill is uuuuuon uuu uuuuufuwith uguyis uuuuffufuuuf

[@chrisrice2598]

Tytuguyfu yuuu ttis your inew utiguuwill is uuuuuon uuu uuuuufuwith uguyis uuuuffufuuuf

[@StephenOliver001]

Network Engineer in the Oil & Gas industry here, so awesome to see some love given to industrial kit (its way cooler than commercial gear :D).

[@JeffGeerling]

Hmm... wouldn't a lot of it be _hotter_? ;)

[@HandFromCoffin]

I don't think so.. its generally 20 years+ behind any kind of standard let alone security standards. The quality of the software is laughable for the cost. Security is usually not even talked about.

[@drdonut2564]

Industrial Automation Engineer here: Two things I missed about specific requirements for industrial systems: 1. Often, the computers need to run on 24V, not on your standard 5V or 230V, so it needs a different power supply. 2. Spare part availability. Our machines come with a 20 year warranty, and an expected lifespan of 20 to 50 years. So if I call my supplier in 15 years, I want to be able to get the exact same computer as I had, so I can be sure it can run the exact same software without driver issues or something else. At your general big box store, you are lucky if you can still find the exact same model in six months, therefore, our suppliers need to have a huge amount of parts in stock.

[@TheDiner50]

This is so true. But really if you buy a computer components on close to launch day you still are likely to be able to find close to identical components for about 3-5years. Maybe there are revisions or changes to them. But it is really frustrating that the moment any warranty is out the parts are gone from stores. It is almost like they want you to buy a hole new computer every 3-5 years. Mmm. Worst are the motherboards. Such a core part of the computer are so unreliable and broken with poor updates that might as well brake more then they fix. Considering how we are comming to a end of improvements to the everyday computer user needs. We all should be having hardware with 10years of warranty and such. Expected life of 20years! Home servers and internet browsing is not going to become more taxing then they are already. And power consumption is on the verge of being pointless to improve since there is not much more that can be done. With a push to make hardware and software reliable maybe the waste of resources can be limited and software can be made into a contributed effort to avoid needles broken stuff as Windows and shoddy BIOS and drivers. But there is no real money to be made making something good and long lasting. Unless it is expensive and such just to make the thing reliable and actually work. Imagen if something is so well made that after many years on the market new stuff was made but without huge changes. Can take advantage of the already established stuff without braking up the user base and keep improving the software side. Since the hardware really have no reason to be advance anymore in a hurry.

[@OsX86H3AvY]

I used to work at the factory for the company that makes those (or the competitor, not sure if that is appleton or another - i worked for cooper crouse-hinds but in lighting)...its really neat....we sold this stuff to mines, oli refineries, sugar factories, flour mills....boxes like this allow the explosion to happen INSIDE and offer a flame path (the threads of the case in this case) wherein the flame can cool to a temperature that will NOT ignite the gases/dust/fibers outside of the junction box....lights get a little trickier but same idea....its cool AF that you talked over this market as it is HUGE and inteeresting and a lot of folks dont realize it

[@OsX86H3AvY]

just watched the rest....the thread does slow down the explosion as it leaves for sure, but crucially it lowers the temp of the flame to a temp that wont ignite outside gases.....the EJB boxes (bigger bolt on covers, MUCH bigger...this similar to our GUB series with thread on cover) uses a wide flat flame path with bolt on covers...wont slow it much but it cools fast with all of the surface area of the flame path...those are cool looking but not needed for such small equipment...i miss that Class Div work!!!

[@billnoname8093]

I'm one of those folks that knew nothing about this stuff, it was definitely great video

[@spvillano]

Such are also very, very common in regular motor vehicle fueling stations. My father was a contractor that build gasoline/petrol stations, the amount of knowledge needed to properly configure and install explosion proof fixtures is amazing! One missed step, one could trivially have fuel fire and explosion and that such are beyond rare speaks volumes as to how effective the technologies are.

[@alskjflaksjdflakjdf]

Thank you for showing this. I used to work on explosion-proof and 125C+ high vibration electronics, where boards would come back with the all the chips sheared clean off the board. It really does mean adding zeroes to the price for basic components, as well as months on lead times. It would be interesting to hear more from people who integrate raspberry pis in unique environments like this - have you ever thought of posting up interviews with people like this?

[@tanmaypanadi1414]

They probably have iron clad NDA and twitchy and sensetive lawyers.

[@dputra]

LMAO I can imagine using regular board and then seeing them clean flat tomorrow

[@spvillano]

@@dputra a regular board would come back worse than that. The components sheared off and the board cracked to hell and gone is more likely. The nastiest environment I've saw was in missiles and industrial mixing equipment, both sharing similar failure modes for the same basic cause - vibration.

[@ketaminepoptarts]

@@spvillano instead of a motherboard you get back a pile of dust

[@spvillano]

@@ketaminepoptarts utterly identical at the atomic level. ;) I'll just get my hat...

[@raxmendorom]

Certification alone for each standard (IECex, ATEX) can cost thousands of dollars. Not to mention country specific regulations when it comes to explosion proof or hazardous areas. Where I work, we have a remote terminal that just extends video output and USB inputs from a safe area which costs 80k alone. Specialized printers can cost 60k per piece. Industrial equipment does come with a steep price but the investment easily offsets any potential losses when your business can't operate or worse, cause accidents themselves.

[@MatthewSmithFR]

you are absolutely right! My customers for the Milü-X gateway system need capital efficient compute, storage and connectivity packages and being able to provide this equipment with a high degree of quality and compliance has been most rewarding!

[@HE-162]

60k for an industrial printer is cheapppp

[@GodlikeIridium]

True. Great comment.

[@BoloH.]

Just a bare enclosure is eye-wateringly expensive if it is Ex d or Ex e certified.

[@mikapeltokorpi7671]

Some of those connectors in that title image cost more than regular RPI 4.

[@luisca92]

My whole career is industrial controllers, love seeing some attention brought to this subject!

[@EMAHGERD]

As soon as I saw the 303 on his shelf I knew Matthew was a legend

[@MatthewSmithFR]

Well spotted! 😉completely different to an explosion proof PI but if you're into weird techno, here's my other creative outlet kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGGVhKiqodV5p9E

[@timothypeart3116]

its always great to see more raspberry pi units out in the wild have seen them deployed in some car manufacturing often pondering the costs and why more industries or companies haven’t yet followed or realized the raspberry pi’s potential or the amazing community/support behind it as the man here pointed out was a major contributing factor in his decision to implement a pi in this way

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

One reason lots of industry and company won't be Pi powered (yet anyway) is that what they already have works, is still sourceable and doesn't need to go through all the certification and teething trouble of spinning up a new option - though as soon as they can't get their existing device they may well go Pi, as from what I've seen its the only company making these sort of SOC embeddedable products that says available until at least some large number of years into the future.

[@yellowcrescent]

I used to do industrial automation as a Controls Technician-- people, technicians, and integrators are used to working with the incumbent suppliers for machine control (eg. Mitsubishi, Allen-Bradley/Rockwell, Siemens, Fanuc, etc.). These controllers are typically programmed using Ladder Logic (RLL) or Function Charts (SFC), which is easily readable and viewable while running. You can easily watch the program execute and then use that to narrow down when troubleshooting a very complex machine, and the barrier to entry for someone to make modifications is much lower, since Controls Technicians are typically electrical-oriented. These controllers are also part of huge ecosystems that connect together using RS-485, Ethernet/IP, Modbus, ControlNet, etc. and the PLCs themselves are very modular, allowing you to add and remove various cards for I/O. They are also real-time systems that are safety certified and sometimes redundant (like AB's Safety Partner controller, which runs your program completely redundantly, and has a watchdog timer that will trigger the e-stop circuit if the program loop does not execute in a certain amount of time, like 5ms or less). That being said, embedded and traditional computers are still used for the non-realtime components for gathering data, monitoring systems, or performing more complex tasks like 3D scanning and solution solving (eg. for lumber mills to determine the best fit when milling a log).

[@theharbingerofconflation]

So when you built a car uninterrupted, problem free uptime is the number one concern. You have to make 200% sure the car will react to any given trigger as expected at any given time. (Unless you are Tesla, not sure which students they employ but they really don’t care). So that is the reason why saftey programming and specifically guides like Misra C are a thing. Turns out it’s really easy to write safe C on predictable hardware, I suspect that none of the Linux OSs available for the Pi are safe to that level. Even tiny optimised ones like Motioneyeos will crash in normal use. So in any given industry it comes down to lives and the wish to not endanger them. Understandably. You can use a Pi in a thing that can fail, but until the Software for it gets better you won’t see it anywhere else.

[@LuluTheCorgi]

@@theharbingerofconflation it doesn't come down to life's and wanting to protect people Settlements for law suits and factory down time are simply bad for profit, and you can't have that If they where legally allowed to put a "we take absolutely zero responsibility if you get murdered by one of our systems" clause into their contracts they would

[@sagichdirdochnicht4653]

​@@theharbingerofconflation The stable branches of the distributions *are* stable. There are many afe and reliable solutions out there. But you might just listen to the guy in the end who developed the god damn bomb proof housing. Long story short: RPi 1-4 are crappy to embed, as they weren't meant to embed. They actually started working on the thing with the pi 4 and immediately scraped it, when the CM4 released. It is the Boards that were "incompatible", not the Software. Do you seriously believe anyone with a shred of sanity left would build and CERTIFY this thing, when the software was just "good enough"? The developement of this thingy was propably at least 7 figures.

[@jon1913]

I work in automotive automation and we use onlogic boxes for prototype code until our ECUs are finalized. I'll have to look into their pi options to see if they would be capable of running our code.

[@OnLogic]

Great to hear, Jon. Reach out to our team if you have questions.

[@spvillano]

Just spent some time with Debian based distros on Raspberry Pi's. All distros based off of Debian still have an annoying bug that's beginning to show signs of longevity. When they dropped 32 bit to focus exclusively on 64 bit, that broke some fairly basic drivers, such as camera and network functions. Looks to be rooted around a few common libraries. Surprising that the problems are persisting though, the teams responsible for those libraries must be fairly small.

[@liquidmobius]

Please don't. There's a major shortage of Raspberry Pis, some due to chip shortage and supply chain issues, but also because of companies and industry buying them en masse. They were designed and developed to teach kids about computers and coding, and kids can't even buy one if they wanted to. Just stick with what you're already using, please.

[@spvillano]

@@liquidmobius kids don't buy industrial model Pis, too expensive. But, OK, industry can shut down, rather than use their model computers.

[@liquidmobius]

@@spvillano Now you're insulting my intelligence. Of course individuals don't buy industrial Raspberry Pis, they buy Raspberry Pis. And industry is hardly going to fall apart without the Raspberry Pi SBC 🙄 Industry uses them because they're cheap.

[@jasongooden917]

CM4: I'm Tha Bomb! Pi 4: I'm bomb proof

[@capedude465]

The price point shown (~$500) for the packaged industrial Pi is steep compared to regular home/commercial use, but consider a bottom of the barrel PLC CPU can start at ~$1200USD. The higher end product lines run $5000USD-$24000USD for the CPU only, then you are paying $200-$500 per IO module, plus backplane, plus cabinet, plus a programmer/hr specialized in that OEM platform. I'd expect as time goes on those Pi CM4 boards (~$95 for the highest end CM4) are going to fall towards the price of production (I'd guess sub $15), and hopefully it will put so much pressure on these archaic OEMs (SE, Siemens, Allen Bradley) it will collapse their astronomical hardware prices.

[@OnLogic]

Great video, Jeff! Thanks for featuring the Factor 201 and for shining a light on using RPi for industrial applications.

[@salemyr]

The enclosure may stand up to an explosion, but I don't think that's what Ex-certifications are for, but rather make sure the equipment inside can't cause one. (Keeping ignition sources away from flammables)

[@salemyr]

Silly me, should have watched the whole thing before commenting

[@mikepembo8297]

Came here in the first 5 seconds to say the same thing. EX ratings are not to make kit survive an explosion, but to prevent an explosion in the first place. The certification is hugely expensive to get the EX rating and these costs are passed onto the buyer, but given the nature of the job it's a price worth paying.

[@muddyexport5639]

The best part of your presentation was the support community that keeps the RPi Compute and other RPi units reliably working. Kudos to those master geeks that do it for the love of doing it.

[@garrytuohy9267]

That was really interesting to see OnLogic's offering compared with a peer. I have seen explosion-proof light fittings and switches but hadn't considered explosion-proof computers.

[@carpart122]

I love the low key flex with the Roland TB-303 on the shelf.

[@painkillerharold]

0:17 So that’s why I can’t find any Raspberry Pi’s atm - they are blowing them up

[@mbox314]

When I was starting out I wondered why industrial PLCs cost so much money and why anyone would use them over an arduino or other microcontroller. Spending $200 on a basic PLC is alot cheaper than the $50,000/hr it costs to have an entire factory shut down because a critical piece of equipment shit the bed and it is cheaper than the millions it would cost to pay the lawsuit for some 12 year old who fell down an elevator shaft when the doors opened too early or the hundreds of millions of dollars it costs when the machines in the baby food factory get out of wack and start adding unacceptably high levels of broken glass to your product.

[@gideonfelt2819]

I kinda subscribed on a whim, and I'm glad to be continuously impressed by your content Jeff, you definitely found a great topic and a passion in the Raspberry Pi. Your enthusiasm is always evident, keep it up!

[@jpconstantineau]

1:49 Best warning sign for Red Shirt Jeff!

[@zb9458]

Great video Jeff! Love how much information you're putting about Raspberry Pis! I use them at my work in industrial applications as well, so I'm happy to see how other people use them!

[@mechjack]

Great presentation! Nice to have coverage of industrial products. Good to see community involvement opensource matters.

[@justinreddick5876]

So awesome Jeff ! Appreciate all you do man 💪🏾

[@sortofsmarter]

Great video, very cool to see real world hardcore usage for Pi. BTW thanks for a simple entry form on the giveaway that doesn't involve signing up for a half dozen other sites or postings...

[@JeffGeerling]

The rare times I do giveaways, I do them how I'd like someone else to do them if I were entering. Just take my info, pick a winner, be done with it. I figure it's better that way because for me at least, the point is just to get some cool gear into the hands of a viewer. A lot of people view giveaways as a marketing tool, but I'd rather it be for viewers' benefit, not mine.

[@chaddoan4659]

I work in the industrial automation field. It's not common to see raspberry pi and arduino based systems in industrial settings. In most applications they just aren't rugged enough and pi's tend to be overpowered and arduino's tend to be underpowered. Most industrial applications use programmable logic controllers (plc), programmable automation controllers (pac), or industrial pc systems. These systems technically look underwhelming when comparing data sheets with a pi but they are bulletproof and can be much easier and faster to program.

[@pragyasvashishthx]

Jeff, I love how passionate you are when it comes to PIs. In my first year of college, I made a project on Pis with an LM35 sensor. I know it is almost nothing compared to how you use it. Love your videos and thank you so much for sharing so much knowledge with us.

[@pragyasvashishthx]

From India

[@DKLHensen]

Hi Jeff, great video once again. This video finally got me interested enough in the compute module, I did not know the industrial usage of raspberry pi’s are this serious. Thanks for sharing

[@michaelterrell]

My first exposure to explosion proof enclosures was at the home of a man who designed and built paging systems for mines and factories. It was called C. W. Thompson, and he had the prototypes of his early products. They had to make their own enclosures, which were sand cast aluminum. The walls and covers were about a half inch thick, and used a compressed gasket for the seal. All wiring was in rigid conduit, right up to the speakers which also had heavy cast drivers. The most interesting device was a huge multi pole, multi position switch for a fault tolerant PA system for the first US nuclear power plant. I bought a pair of Verbatim NAS systems a few years ago. I never did get them to work reliably. I plan on gutting them and installer a different controller.

[@qwertyface]

Your videos are always good, but this one was just fantastic. Great interview, and good insight into a different world. Thanks so much.

[@summerlaverdure]

thats cool, thank you for getting the interview with the Milu X guy!

[@sillystev0n]

This was really interesting! I knew these existed for the longest time but I never could figure out how they built these things around pi’s. Heck I struggle building things around the normal Pi B models enough, but the CM4 brings a another level of flexibility as showcased in your video! Can’t wait for the next one!

[@waylontmccann]

Jeff your videos have really gotten quite good 👍 👏 it's been great watching you grow and learn.

[@YouTubeDave-tp7ij]

I enjoy your channel. You videos are very interesting. I hope that you get a ton more subscribers. Keep up the good work!

[@spektrum030]

Matthew casually flexing his Roland TB-303 @ 8:41 - guess he's a man of taste

[@MatthewSmithFR]

🤘yeah the confluence of explosion proof gateways and music technology. Techno FTW!

[@spektrum030]

@@MatthewSmithFR I think we share the same values, even though my GWs are not explosion proof - yet :-) Best wishes from Berlin!

[@ryanebigelow]

So cool to see a product from a company in Vermont in your video!

[@OnLogic]

We think so too 😉

[@adrianstephens56]

Love your work and enthusiasm, Jeff, and your weird and oddball projects. As a retiree having developed WiFi for what feels like decades (google my name + intel for some truly mind-numbingly boring material), I'd like to correct you on Certified for "Industrial, scientific and maritime". That term is ISM. Certain radio bands are approved for ISM use (like 2.4 GHz WiFi, and some of the bands in 5GHz are also ISM). It means that the product meets the emission rules in the ISM bands, not that it is certified for industrial, scientific and maritime use.

[@grimmsalem]

One thing about the certifications is that the plants tend to be certify too so that's why you actual need proper certifications on the devices you need while consumers are fine with having devices that follow the certifications but not actually certify.

[@Thats_Mr_Random_Person_to_you]

Agree. I saw a great video with the Rpi team a while back where they talked about the benefits of them using the specific Wifi certifications and tests they did as it would allow commercial customers to build a Wifi based product but not have to do all the retesting and certifications because the Pi foundation had done the 'right' paperwork. To a hobbyist, thats stuff is irrelevant, but its what makes Pi's the 'go to' for embedded compute for commerial customers because it saves them a load of additional regulatory paperwork that other Pi competitors would otherwise require.

[@CaptainSeamus]

I teach automation technologies (programming and maintaining) for industry - and moving from a standard PLC to something like a PI has been something I've been watching - seeing some of these being used in lieu of certain other PLCs is downright fascinating to me. Seeing those explosionproof enclosures and connective systems is tying off one of the last hurdles I kept seeing for this.

[@BlackHoleForge]

Hey I really like that interview you did with the designer. It would be cool if you could have some more videos from other electronic designers. Maybe they could help some of us that are interested in electronics engineering. Like how do you grow from a list of requirements, to a electrical schematic?

[@nekomakhea9440]

"explosion proof" sounds less like a feature and more like a challenge

[@benoygoswami6487]

Your videos are really great!! Keep it up.

[@giorgiobarchiesi5003]

Nice video. Allow me to mention a couple Italian companies that offer pi-based industrial PLCs, that I am using in my projects: Sferalabs and Elsist. Typical industry-specific features, in addition to those mentioned in the video, are 24 V power supply, battery-backed real time clock, relais outputs and protected inputs. In some cases also RS 232 or RS 485 ports, or even one-wire ports.

[@toddburgess5056]

Nice Dr. Who Dalek reference, especially on the explosion proof one! LOL

[@zerumsum1640]

A little context on the price of the explosion proof pi here: When something like a pi is deployed as part of an industrial system, you'll be getting something that is fully integrated into that specific system. Industrial setups don't use the PI in the same way as a consumer would. A consumer will want the pi do be capable of a lot of things. In industry, the pi will have to do one thing and be able to do it without any down time. downtime costs money, both in loss of production as well as in terms of paying someone to fix it. often, this will require calling the company that installed it, hence the requirement of as high of uptime as possible. Because of this, they will taylor the PI's software and what cables connect to it... you get the idea. you're getting a customized pi, set up specifically for the task they designed it for. Thanks to that, there is no such thing as a "price" for these as they all have different requirements. The price will be the cost of the hardware, yes, but it will also include the programmer's pay, the tech's pay when he integrates it, as well as whatever overhead the company decides to charge. for a little perspective on that i used to be an install tech for similar equipment. I made $22 and hour, but they billed me out at $200 an hour so that everyone else working on that project back at the office (programmers, project managers, you get the idea) would also be able to get paid.

[@hholi]

mentioning eurorack and Mathew having a 303 sitting on his shelve ....definitly some synthlover eastereggs :D

[@ultimape]

Great to see 'on logic' here. I've got three of their old open source beagle bone cases. Very interesting company. I've wanted to work for them back when they were known as Logic Supply. They run a tight ship!

[@JeffGeerling]

I'll have to see if I can visit their HQ someday!

[@OnLogic]

Thanks for the kind words, Nicholas. That BB case was a fun project. Our industrial designer was quite proud of how that came out.

[@OnLogic]

@@JeffGeerling We’d love to host you, hopefully we can make that happen.

[@werdna9006]

Very interesting and informative video. Thanks Jeff

[@blade913]

This topic is a great explanation for paying someone more money over someone else in a job scenario. Be it skill, or knowledge, contacts, certifications, and more. It's cool to see the Pi literally becoming a wide spread device that's used in many places on earth. It is a tool, and many people forget what tools are for.

[@jeroenvanhardeveld7432]

As an E&I engineer it is cool to see the raspberry pi making its way into industrial automation this way. Engineering a lot for eplosive environments, next to this box there might me specific cables required. Internal separation if there is also intrinsically safe circuiting involved. There has to be a lot of specific engineering and external validation to be done in these kind of environments, not only the equipment. If you want a soothing bedtime read you can start reading the IEC-60079 standard 😋

[@JeffGeerling]

lol that's okay, I'll let the experts read IEC-60079!

[@KameraShy]

No, it is not "cool." When We The People cannot get our hands on a Pi or CM at a sane price.

[@jeroenvanhardeveld7432]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4WzYnl9j6uDgbc Here is a video where you can see how they test these explosive proof enclosures. And what happens if they get damaged. That is why they need frequent inspection.

[@tbonthego]

Excellent Jeff. Great video. I've dealt with industrial computing and yeah, unless management has lived that world, they don't get it either. Keep more videos coming. I also enjoyed, what could only have been Red Shirt Jeff with a roll of duct tape in hand mounting industrial computing to a cinder block wall. All good stuff. Thanks!!!

[@211212112]

The enclosure is off the shelf like the pi and the fittings. The expense comes with their knowledge, little bit of custom software, investing $ and time in actually making these, getting them certified, teaching customers how to use, and having boots on the ground to service/train/install/etc.

[@CaptZenPetabyte]

Thanks for this video, the review will help when I finally design the system for my home ev

[@matthewsharp1178]

This is the video I needed to fully invest in pi’s, I was worried they don’t have the ruggedness or even the capability to be upgraded to such an extent, but after hearing that guys explanation on how it’s the community that make the pi so versatile, all the claims finally make sense

[@vertskater101]

I work with these. Its incredible the variety of use cases

[@MarcoGPUtuber]

Industrial Pi - Now with 50% more engine oil!

[@Tarbard]

Such a good video. I imagine EEVBlog will be doing a teardown of that bomb proof pi in a decade or so.

[@JeffGeerling]

...and bob's yer uncle!

[@Skrillfreak]

Explosion proof meaning that it is either designed to be sparkless, or contained in a manner that, if any sparking occurred, the explosion would be contained and stopped inside of the enclosure so as no prevent the spread of the flame/shockwave.

[@TechGorilla1987]

Intrinsically safe. I used to install wiring for fuel dispensers and underground storage tanks. All of our connections were potted too. All the ends of the conduit are potted. wire nut connections are cased in epoxy in the ground boxes.

[@PCNAF09]

Thank you for the amazing videos!

[@ScottJWaldron]

So pretty much OS and software support is the reason this industry uses it. Makes sense! Great video. :)

[@dreckman69]

Love the ave sticker at 1:47!

[@JeffGeerling]

skookum!

[@jvanrs4928]

Hi Jeff, As always, great content

[@CoreyThompson73]

I've been working in factory and utility automation for 30 years, I would never put a Pi on any critical operations in my environment, we use PLCs and things like SEL RTACs that can take a pounding and things keep working and their underlying OSs are EXTREMELY stable (don't want an electric substation, water treatment plant, or sewer pump station to stop working due to using a cheap ARM device with buggy software). I do use many Pis in non-critical functions, I usually put them in NEMA rated enclosures.

[@hanro50]

Raspberry Pi's by default run a version of the Denian operating system. A system known to be extremely stable within the Linux world as it is meant for servers that run 24/7

[@ichbins7203]

I love how versatile the cm4 is

[@gearyae]

Those Lincoln Binns Pi boxes are just the best Pi enclosures on the market in general. I love how they move all the IO ports to one face the way it always should have been done.

[@jasongooden917]

Finally, a KZbinr with a relevant sponsor😂

[@aldebaranalonsocarreon8887]

Great video, Jeff! Have you ever tried Nerves project (Elixir Framework for IoT devices)? I think it is the easiest way to start with embedded Linux, they have tons of things out of the box like networking, OTA, hardware handling, and so on. They are fully compatible with RPI boards, in case you are interested.

[@bepstein111]

Can vouch for OnLogic, we use their SFF intel builds at work running linux, we love them. their custom mobos are always A+ and can be customized to a business's needs. plus, you gotta love that orange/silver colorway!

[@OnLogic]

Thanks very much! And we're pretty fond of the color combo as well :)

[@bepstein111]

@@OnLogic Hello from VideoLink in Newton, MA!

[@OnLogic]

@@bepstein111 We're obviously huge proponents of video and love what you all are doing to make it easier for companies to use video effectively. Happy to hear our hardware has been working well for you.

[@Jimmy_Jones]

Thanks for letting us know. Now we have another market to raid Pi's from. Lol

[@JeffGeerling]

"How did you get that Pi??" "Oh I just bought this $500,000 Industrial computer and shucked it."

[@DUDA-__-]

@@JeffGeerling sent it back asking for support and they sent me another..

[@JohnDuthie]

I got lucky picking up a pi zero w mid last year at Microcenter. I didn't realize how scare it is to find these anywhere. It took two trips but I found one in stock.

[@micah66048]

I think another point to it is 20 years from now you'll still be able to find a Pi kicking around. So the board can be replaced if it ever does have an issue. Sometimes I work on systems that are crazy old, like, no joke, run custom control software on DOS/386

[@dmacpher]

Used these in a past job for modbus network interfaces to utilize existing networking. Makes sense - no point in using custom hardware or running home runs for the scada equipment

[@dfloyd888]

The beauty of the Raspberry Pi is the community, and the standardization. It is easy to find software, purchase HATs, troubleshoot issues, download STL cases to 3D print, and many more items. Of course, there are other boards that can offer a lot of nice features, but the Pi has a lot going for it. I can add a Zymkey, and now I have state of the art, encrypted endpoint encryption on par with the latest generation consoles, for example. I also have read nothing but praise, as well as have had nothing but excellent results using Raspberry Pis in the field for edge computing.

[@CarcharothQuijadasdelased]

This is your brain on MSM: "The super duper good guys are using Pis on bombs, GREAT"

[@poisonouscarnage2289]

Industry mostly uses plc due to how modular and versatile they are for industrial applications. Also in the uk IS (intrinsically safe) circuits are no longer up to regulation for new instillation, however if an old system uses IS circuitry it is still allowed. ATEX regulations is what is followed for EX (explosive environments) and at the moment you need certified enclosures wich use specific seals and brass parts to prevent an EX environment from developing within the circuitry to begin with.

[@danandrei96]

this was a fantastic video, it's so cool to see all these wild use cases for the PIs and the work put into it. That being said, I will always have mixed feelings when I see hobbyist hardware used in high end industry applications, especially when said hardware is constantly out of stock. I know you tried to address this a bit towards the end there but I still feel the need to give my 2 cents. At the end of the day, I'm sure that one or more companies out there could set up and manufacture some "industrial-grade" CM4s using the same SOCs that are 100% cross-compatible with the original but have tweaked designs for better efficiency or reliability for example, then they could sell those at a premium if price is really of no concern since those would be valuable selling points for a business. Or maybe the raspberry Pi foundation should look into doing this themselves, kind of how Nvidia sells their Quadro and GeForce cards. I realise this doesn't solve the supply issue for the SOCs or some other chips affected by the silicon shortage, but at least they wouldn't be buying up the same exact SBCs that me and you can't even find ONE of for some low-budget home project. I respect the effort that the companies in this video put into making their enclosures and everything else that goes along with selling an "industrial" Pi, but to me it just still feels somewhat lazy or a bit like cheating for some company to buy a cheap $35 board (I'd imagine by the thousands of units or more at a time) and slap it into an expensive enclosure so they can charge as much as half a million per unit. I guess my main gripe is this : The end product might be super expensive but they probably pay the same amount for a CM4 as everyone else, if not lower due to bulk discounts. These companies have so much money they could basically just buy out the entire stock of Pis any and every time they want, how are consumers supposed to compete?

[@OpenEmoto]

We makers were totally deceived with the RPi foundation. I bought a Zima board yesterday for my DIY projects. Good bye RPi.

[@kostal1991]

Why did I think Raspberry Pi was only used by DIY enthusiast and tinkerers? I guess my assumptions stayed the same for 10 years, when I got my Pi 1. Thanks for educating me!

[@ernstoud]

The 5 points at 3:37 miss a very important one: availability in short and long term. Which is a problem at the moment.

[@SeraphX2]

businesses don't have a problem supply as much. the 500k units that are being produced per month, at the moment, are going straight to businesses.

[@tnwagn]

I work as an electrical engineer at major manufacturing company focusing on new equipment design/procurement and this supply issue isn't just for consumer electronics. We are seeing lead times from major industrial controls manufacturers jump from a typical 6 weeks to over a year with no signs of them getting any better anytime soon.

[@SeraphX2]

@@tnwagn these were supposed to be consumer products, not running whole ass businesses.

[@axeami1354]

I've gotta say the thing that amazed me the most out of this whole video is that little made in the UK mark printed on the pi board.

[@NeilMartinIsHere]

I see Matthew Smith has a Roland TB-303 on his workbench. Nice!

[@B-a_s-H]

Hmmm... I'd love to have a bomb-proof case for my 303. :D

[@MatthewSmithFR]

@@B-a_s-H we can build a custom one for you!!! 😉

[@MatthewSmithFR]

yeah, that is a whole other story! Techno FTW. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGGVhKiqodV5p9E

[@B-a_s-H]

@@MatthewSmithFR Hahaha, nice! Ill take one! But for real... if you ever feel like doing something silly like that.. perhaps setup a kickstarter campaign. If you do... ⚠Maak Alarm⚠ ✌

[@AndrewAHayes]

I got a hold of point of sales screen for Debenhams loyalty cards the other day powered by a Pi3b+, a friend was clearing out an old store to refit it and found it in a pile of rubbish that had to be skipped and thought I could use it, I wish he had got hold of more of them, he is going to look for some more for me.

[@jimmymifsud1]

Nice, I make these for work, not that brand; but all sorts of solutions your Pi and other SOC computers

[@C_Haberstoked]

such a powerful community!

[@danilorosich]

Is there no separate quality control that goes into separating industrial worthy chips from standard dies. Would be cool if this was done at the factory much like what nvidia does with their gpus and what apple does with the m1 chips

[@johnsonlam]

Can't agree more with Mathew Smith that the community and quality that Pi are over all others SBC even they may be more powerful. Those hardware lacks a long term support and quality community that provide free and paid support, like my Pine64 are good but now almost in an abandon state while I can still use some old Linux but not new, a manufacturer's business sense decide how large they can make, another example is my Apple 2nd generation iPad, it still work properly and the software really last for many years.

[@thief9001]

I'd really like to learn more about this. I'd love to do more with industrial Pi and getting into that side of control programming. Right now, I only really exclusively use PLC's from Siemens and Allen Bradley. I know my way around Ladder Logic, Function Block Diagrams and Flow Chart diagrams, but Structured text is a major weak point for me, and full on programming like would be used for industrial pi is right out. It's fascinating seeing these modules used for this application, where I'd always sort of assumed the modules just were not robust enough for the demands of an industrial enviroment.

[@congyihuang9150]

They said that the school kids will grow up learning programming with it. Now there is a whole industry profiting from it, but where are the ones for the poor kids today. Great promise, great work!

[@Aepek]

Signin to enter, I’ll pass. Video was super awesome, educational, and awesomely nerdy….loved every minute while watching Cheers✌🏻

[@BearMeat4Dinner]

Great video!

[@DaWhiteTyger]

Thanks for singling out viewers in the future for instant clout!

[@Cheeky_Goose]

I wonder what it will take to get that kind of kernel and OS support for other SBC's because Rockchip's latest processor that can be found on the Orange Pi 5 is an absolute powerhouse, and it would be nice if there were multiple manufacturers to choose from

[@AnilArya51]

Jeff, 'm using a pi hole server (on a pi 2) at home but ads are still showing up but earlier it used work, I wonder why would it be?

[@tanmaypanadi1414]

Google updated how it serves ads. At least that's what most marketing people think as Android TV type of stuff got an update. Don't How to figure that out for sure though. it feels like the war between Martech and ad blocking continues.

[@AnilArya51]

@@tanmaypanadi1414 , So what should be done?

[@Aepek]

Congrats to the winner of the pibox👍🏻👍🏻

[@JustinSaneTube]

I think we all can agree that most pi´s, industrial or not, live in harsh environments. or maybe its time for spring cleaning....

[@balls2bone]

At my local hackspace, we built a custom euro rack for Raspberry Pies! Has battery backup hidden in the back.

[@Saaihead]

Dude! This guy has a TB303, just sitting there on a shelf in the background.

[@MatthewSmithFR]

Yeah, that's me. Techno FTW! 🤘

[@Saaihead]

@@MatthewSmithFR I couldn't agree more