Why Beerus said Goku is WEAKER than Frieza

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[@SaiyanScholar]

Your Patreon Support really helps keep me going. If, at any point, you feel like supporting my content please visit www.Patreon.com/ScholarVerse Unfortunately, KZbin demonetised over 100 of my Dragon Ball videos making me lose content income to keep me going. Hit the Like again to turn this video Super Saiyan. Thank you so much.

[@fjod1689]

If we are gonna take the Daisenshu 7 power data as correct, Goku SSJ suppoesdly was 3000 million t the end of Cell Saga or begginnin of Bu Saga if I remeeber, devide it between 50 and you get 60 million in base form, which is half of Freezers full power in his ultimate form before Golden and even if he could power up his base form dont see it going more than 90 million, of course if he uses Kaioken is other story

[@yclxgxicijgxlyclglgi8727]

@saiyanscholar even when Goku turnt as in the fight beerus said that would barely be enough to beat Frieza and mind u ss Goku was much stronger from when he fought frieza

[@OleDirtyMacSanchez]

Of course, they have to suppress their power for day-to-day operations. It makes sense to actually do so, think about it for a second. They wouldn't be able to Piss or Shit in a Toilet otherwise. Them at FULL POWER shitting, talk about really making Craters. That brings new meaning to Power Dumps. Though Bulma could've invented some kind of Special Toilet for them as a just in case.

[@isaaccuevas1717]

You guys remember when the frieza force soldier scanned future trunks power level and it said 10 or something.same idea when berrus met goku

[@Luke973T]

Only thing is...goku nor king kai gave any contrary reaction...

[@isaaccuevas1717]

@@Luke973T another example is cabba scanning goku and not considering him impressive l,vegeta then correcting him

[@Luke973T]

@isaaccuevas1717 I don't doubt that goku wasn't fully powered up in base but that still doesn't mean that if he fully powered up that he could beat freeza. If the "goku permanently absorbed god ki in base" was retconned afterwards then that makes it clear. If base goku without God ki could fight freeza in resurrection f then I don't see why base goku in the beginning of super couldn't beat namek freeza.

[@isaaccuevas1717]

@@Luke973T in resurrection of f,everyone was popping their pants when first form frieza showed up.piccolo,ssj2 gohan,not even gotanks try anything to him,base goku then shows up and fights FINAL form frieza,god ki or not,base goku is boxing with buu

[@Luke973T]

@isaaccuevas1717 "god ki or not"...no it makes a huge difference if he was using it. When did base goku fight buu? In dbz or super?

[@allenxav4754]

The fact that krillin threw a rock at super sayan goku and hurt it I think shows that his power can even be suppressed in super sayan

[@staceyleblanc3904]

Ya just like blue Goku shot a Kamehameha at krillin without putting him in other world

[@maruf8273]

There's a good chance Beerus thought Goku was too primitive to suppress his power. After all, Frieza needed forms to suppress his power because he couldn't do it naturally.

[@MohamedDekkal-cg3xl]

The fact that you said that make you a real db fan Most peapile think Frieza base is the one that he first appeared in

[@soul8648]

thank you. It's not the complex to know lol

[@makyeallen1764]

That's an excellent theory..

[@makyeallen1764]

@@MohamedDekkal-cg3xl Uhhh... What!? That wasn't said in the comment you are replying too buddy... lmao!!!

[@soul8648]

@@makyeallen1764 it's not an actual theory. It is a statement based on Dragon Ball gone through so far

[@lordMartiya]

As a certain tire ad says, "power is nothing without control". And Goku had so much control he seemed to have no power. In a way, Beerus' statement could be taken as a compliment, noting that he was so good at controlling and suppressing his power he seemed far too weak to take on Frieza.

[@matthewpletsch7523]

I mean, Beerus could have just been sh*t talking him, as well.

[@Spedyboi]

True that

[@jokelot5221]

The theory in this video thst Goku and Gohan staying Super Saiyan for a couple of days in training having actually a very low supressed power actually makes sense, since Krillin could hurt unsuspecting Goku with a simple rock. This means that Sayians and other powerful fighters in DB could change their power and durability in an instant if need be, within their current transformation.

[@FireBlazeX]

i think its reasonable for his base power to be 100 million, which would be under friezas 120 million. i saw a reddit thread that pretty thoroughly broke down math throughout the series and it convinced me.

[@ShaimingLong]

Personally, given the way Toriyama writes and the how often he's given contradictory statements in interviews, no matter how well fans can work the math I don't think I can be convinced that's how Toriyama intended it. Even the whole 50x multiplier feels off to me, it's like saying "when my fight or flight instinct kicks in and my adrenaline is flowing, I'm 3x stronger and faster." Biology just isn't that exact. Plus given the introduction of power level numbers seemed to be a way of showing that relying on empirical values were to the detriment of those using them, compared to those who trained and improved themselves, it seems ironic how much the fandom (and the Shueisha staff) are fixated on those numbers.

[@7reasons617]

Gokus base form is FAR beyond that.

[@12bru63]

People also forget that being relaxed, and suddently raising your power level in the moment of striking makes you much more energy efficient. And that was the way Goku used to fight, while vegeta always prefer to bully his opponents with pure power. Those little details in the old days VS the constantly remake of power and scenes in DBZ Super (like Vegeta Final Flash vs Cell, Gohan awakening SS2). Thats why dragon ball Z feels much better for me, personally...

[@GrandCaptainSpeedyDashGames]

A similar line to what Beerus said was said in the movie Dragon Ball The return of Son Goku and Friends, with Vegeta criticizing Tarble for relying too much on scouters.

[@andreatottress4772]

Jeice and Burter swears up and down Kakarot’s power level was only 5K

[@EmeralBookwise]

Of course base forms don't have a set level, but the thing is Beerus being someone who is constantly suppressing himself and only ever fighting at a mere fraction of his full power would know that. We've seen other characters able to surmise the fact another character is holding back, and the expectation is that Beerus isn't fooled for even a single moment by Goku's suppressed base power.

[@Acendshadow]

Almost all characters when seeing either Goku or vegeta suppress there lower level the are all shocked I think that’s what happened with berus

[@luckydust4375]

​@@AcendshadowI don't think so. Beerus wouldn't be fooled by that. I think Beerus just wanted to push Goku to transform. It would be totally in character for Beerus to come up with this to provoke Goku's competitive nature, hoping that he would eventually become the Super Sayan God.

[@charzanboo9940]

But he was training on King Kai's planet...

[@CuppaGi]

You don't always lift your maximum when at the gym do you? Most of the time you lift a fraction of your maximum limit so as not to damage your muscles and over-exhaust yourself. Same concept.

[@hannessteffenhagen61]

@@CuppaGi if you're working out you're working at a significant fraction of your max strength. Even a very light workout is not going to go much below half of your max unless you're doing cardio, and much higher than that if you're doing strength training

[@user-qs1my4zi2b]

This is Goku we are talking about. Not some dude from the gym. You rmember him training on his way to namek? ​@@CuppaGi

[@mohibbaneaahlebyata.s7332]

Bro Can You Make One of these Videos Against Cell Max Plsss

[@doct1400]

I thought this much was explicitly stated at least a few times. Gohan and Krillin were hiding their energy from the scouters. It didn't quite work on Vegeta's newly discovered ability to sense energy levels. Seriously is that man a Uchia? Just by knowing something is possible he can do it? Anyway when Ginyu takes to the field he tells Jeice ignore the scouter. This man can suppress his energy levels. I think the easiest answer being able to surpress your energy or sense energy are near Earth Exclusive. Only Frieza and Ginyu are capable of doing this. Everybody else walks around at 100% or close enough all day and night. Sure there might be a very human real life rage or adrynalynn boost but that's as far as it goes. It just didn't occur to Beerus that Goku wasn't at his full power and as a result he thought that was all or at least most of what Goku had. You can instantly see him get a little interested at SSJ, then SSJ2 and when Goku went SSJ3 he invites him to fly so they don't wreck the planet. Too much. Goku because you can't sense God Ki without God Ki initially offered to power down not wanting to hurt Beerus. Also not knowing what he was stepping into..

[@DarkAkuma]

The important part of what Beerus said is "and power up". He says Goku doesnt seem like he could beat him as is, but follows that with "but I understand you can transform and power up...". It's easy to just think about the "transform" part of that, as the point of the dialog is to highlight the SSJ transformation as the key to Goku defeating Freiza in order to move the plot forward so Goku transforms. Yea. Goku is training with King Kai at the time, but that does not mean his power is maxed out. For one, King Kai told Goku to hide before that as I recall. It would be stupid to hide with his power amped up. Even for stupid Super Goku. For two, power isnt everything for training. Training is about improving how you use your power at times in that world. Also, I will bring up that Goku was significantly weaker in his base form than he seemed to be against Frieza before he went SSJ. You cant forget that Goku was using Kaioken at the right times. (Not sure if that was anime only). I forget the multiplier he was using then, but it was anywhere from 2x-20x. Meaning, to match Freizas power like he did before that, his base was far lower before the multiplier. If it helps, consider Kiaoken as a sort of SSJ0.5 transformation at the time. He was not doing it in pure base form. So its very possible that at the start of the BoG arc, base form Goku could take on 100% Namek Saga Freiza. While its fun to speculate, for story purposes it does not make sense to clearly define if he could or not though. When writing stories, the less you define and leave open ended, the more freedom you have and the less likely you are to have to retcon anything later. You want to world build as much as possible, but also want to leave things out that you don't absolutely need to define.

[@marquisemoody6901]

He was using ×10 when Freiza was at half of his power during the anime. I think it's highly possible that Goku doesn't actually become 40x stronger between Freiza, Cell, and Buu. He doesn't really have to, as super saiyan makes him 50x more powerful. If he even got twice as strong in base, he becomes 100x stronger than the base goku who fought freiza when using Super Saiyan.

[@marquisemoody6901]

Not in Super. Can't remember what he says during the movie, but during the anime, he says, "I understand you are capable of transformation."

[@totov7673]

Correct at that time it kaioken x 20 = 0.5 Ssj but thats in the case anymore bc a mastered ssj full power = 500x multiplayer now on base.

[@zenkairanger]

I also wondered why he said this. Goku’s Battle of Gods base would mop Namek Saga Frieza and last Beerus knew about Frieza power was before he went to sleep.

[@JohnWiku]

Freezur couldn't power down, so he came up with the downscaling transformations to "control" his power. Goku can suppress his life force to undetectable levels.

[@GlaxoSmacks]

remember, Krillin hurt Goku in SSJ with a small rock...

[@shadowopsairman1583]

I suspect that in that ssj form it was as low as a Humans in power level suppression

[@Down_Pat]

do you never accidentally bump your elbow and say "ouch" even though it didnt hurt?

[@GlaxoSmacks]

@@Down_Pat that has happened, but ive never sat there in pain rolling around from it.

[@totov7673]

Filler!! dont count

[@omegahtv6779]

Great video 👍🏿

[@kevinmentor6036]

Great video

[@windows98alpha35]

My interpretation of it was since this is a new series and Goku had already came a long way and GT had made Goku do a lot of already advanced things after the end of Z Akira hit the reset button on Goku to have him get something to do during Super. Kinda like how in Metroid you start with an overpowered suit only to get nerfed after the tutorial to keep you going through the game.

[@takunx]

That's why even in super saiyan mode they still do the whole yelling and powerful thing to further increase their power level.

[@DJBurns-jq8mn]

Just gonna say that Beerus knew Goku was there when they first met and likely sensed his energy when he was training the same way that King Kai sensed Beerus was seconds away form arriving. That can be what he was referring to and when they talked to eachother, Beerus was just sizing him up to figure out how his power worked and Beerus knew the Saiyans so he knew they can change there powers

[@hocuspocus9713]

Wasn't this already mentioned directly in the show with Whis mentioning they kept relying on their transformations and their base forms weren't that developed?

[@richardh9828]

Raising your power without transforming ... this is what YOU do preparing for a fight. Heart and lung beating faster, emitting adrenaline and dopamine, the mind geta focussed and/or enraged ... look for hysterical strength. A real life power booster of the good ol' humans, it isn't even a transformation (albeit that would be cool as heck imho).

[@kamenrangerzeo8251]

It's easy for the lazy cat God of destruction to make that assumption when he was busy resting on his can while the Supreme Kai's were being killed off by Majin Buu and also being manipulated by Frieza as well (ie being played on by his ego).

[@Rasik.777]

Bro whats up,not seen your stuff for 2 years.(since the gt power levels)

[@marckennethgates9141]

I think beerus also forgot that Mabey he was not at full power since he was just doing basic training

[@TCBlueFire]

Even when i first saw this i just imagine freiza potential is on a whole nother level compared to goku's we even see this on ROF Plus beerus gave frieza the idea to blow up planet vegeta so he should have an idea on how frieza power could Potentially be

[@Kingdom_Finance]

Beerus should’ve been able to sense his true power though… even Vegeta could tell Goku was suppressing his true power when he first learned to sense power levels

[@supersaiyangodshallot8742]

Goku's Super Zenkai during the Frieza saga gone from a power level of 90,000 to 3,000,000 after getting a beat down when Ginyu stole Goku's body. However, that only cause Goku to reach his Saiyan's limits faster, and making it harder for Goku to become couple or few times stronger in a few years of intense training since Beerus did stated base Goku in their first meeting couldn't defeat Final form Frieza at 100% with Power Level of 120,000,000. Also, Vegeta did declared in DBS in the Universe 6 saga, that he and Goku were reaching their Saiyan's limits, thereby making it very hard to grow stronger.

[@leosnyder5264]

You must be joking dude Vegeta debunked that b******* statement is not true at the end of dragon Ball super he said only a fool puts limits on a saiyan and Vegeta also said in tournament of power we sans have no limit or did you miss that part

[@totov7673]

​@@leosnyder5264His talking about there base and the zenkai boost abilty was verry high before now its little thats the limit he means. Nkw they need new god skills to combine.

[@GreatSageGoku]

To me, I believe it could be in a similar scenario where Tarble scans Goku's power level as Beerus inspects him. Goku must've had his power suppressed since he was supposed to be hiding but both the Destroyer and his attendant/mentor is well aware of his whereabouts. At least he did acknowledge Goku's combat strength when he showcased his full power up to Super Saiyan 3 before taking an L after taking two blows, a flick and a chop. It's good to watch or read them every once in a while to refresh the know-how, if I do say so myself.

[@johngladman4291]

It’s also possible that Frieza had more raw power in his earlier years before taking over Cold’s empire. Maybe sitting in that chair for so long cause his power to diminish. He could have also been very much capable of maintaining his 100% final form in his earlier years. Frieza never expected to run into someone other than Beerus or Buu who could challenge him so he had no need in training after he began to conquer planets.

[@manuelsosa8681]

Damn. Good job!

[@ryanthornton2438]

This was easily brought up many times mainly in both the Saiyan and Namek sagas.

[@AllaboutDale]

This guy used common sense. He's absolutely right about how base form works. Because otherwise, how the heck would Krillin be able to hurt a Super Saiyan Goku. 😂

[@dwightnorton3398]

I agree with you on this

[@XRoyalBlueGokuX]

GT stomps

[@gloriajoseph6882]

I clicked this video immediately after I saw it pop up

[@bob_zor]

Prove it brah

[@Jack-xf2pr]

I think it makes more sense that he was 300k on namek, 15M as super saiyan & Frieza being 12M I remember back in 2010-2012 for a while this was the case many beleived & all the power leveling scaling is roughly 10x too much than it actually is

[@bamboteevee]

I mean the fact Base Vegeta in the buu saga was stronger than Supreme Kai who stated each Kai is like a thousand times stronger than Freiza 😂 That already explains everything

[@spiritofthewolf15x]

Did IQ points among the DragonBall fandom decrease sharply since the finale of Z?

[@ricoboydragon1136]

THANK YOU1!!! I knew something wasn't right when people said he couldn't beat 100% Frieza in base at the time. suppressed

[@totov7673]

Nevermind he can bc in manga dbz majin Boo saga Goku mention Piu Piu was the same level has 100% full power frieza namek yea he was defently surpressed. But than again it was Vegeta who killes him I belive Vegeta base is higher than Goku? What you think can Goku in base from early super defeat 100 %full power Frieza namek?

[@theemeraldninja5038]

The base power suppression is what scared all of the scouter users shitless

[@n1njab0t78]

I completely forgot that future Trunks' base power reading was only 5 for his debut in Z 🤯 The suppressed power level thing makes so much more sense now

[@GraveUypo]

nah that was just toriyama forgetting how his manga works again.

[@MichaelTheArchangel2500]

Maybe he through frieza train during his life.

[@TheBitishDragon]

so 1 point and 1 theory, starting with theory I think both Beerus and Whis being gods could see through Goku's surpressed energy enough to make a decent guess at a base power level not realising Goku could elevate his base power far beyond whats considered normal for warriors of the DBZ Universe, that theory also ties into point 1 we know that Freeza's true maximum power was never realised on Namik due to his over confidence and transformations only when needed lead to him burning alot of energy long before he hit his final and full power forms thus I believe Beerus and Whis could see Freeza's maximum power ceiling and from there make a decent estimate

[@microwave5127]

Tldr; Goku’s power was suppressed. Something that anybody who has watched dbz should know

[@cellandbuuaremyfavoritedbz1542]

Bro Can You Make One of these Videos Against Cell Max Plsss plsssssssss

[@B_Leo86]

Good video loved it... you have an excellent point which is very true and thank you for reminding me of this... but your argument has one tiny flaw, that am sure I am not the first to point out... your assuming Beerus's ability to evaluate an potential opponent power is no better than a Frieza force lackey who's dependent on scouter. Warriors that can sense energy, can usually tell when someone hasn't power up yet or are suppressing there power and this includes Beerus.

[@tails_the_god]

Its indeed a very important thing to remember 💯

[@derekbrown5897]

That's a lot of words just to say "Goku was suppressing his power"

[@Blaze4ification]

People either skipped or forgot Z lol, this is mentioned how far back? Like Raditz mentions it right? That's why the scouters are basically useless for Vegeta and Nappa, why they use the Saibamen to guage their powers? They can supress their power to 0.

[@weeaboo-warrior]

Beerus isn’t that stupid and the writers aren’t trying to trick the audience. Even after going super Saiyan in the Super anime Beerus says Frieza is still the best he can do. These blatantly shows he didn’t change his assessment.

[@algladyou]

If you think about. Frieza just trained for few months, and he caught up with regular ki with god ki.

[@totov7673]

Well Vegeta only trained 6 months to get ssj god and blue . But yea I get your point. Also Gohan to only trained few months he cought up to god ki with regular ki 😅

[@algladyou]

@totov7673 right? Though Gohan should be stronger than Frieza when Frieza he came back. And Gohan was training since vs cell and then Buu while Frieza was dead and not training. So now, God ki seems overrated. 😅😅😅

[@totov7673]

@@algladyou Abit but it does have its benefits more stamina and regenerstes vital.

[@Aziah32]

finally someone talking about that statement

[@Copykat96i]

we saw it against ginyu force right

[@BigHeadClan]

Goku was literally training on King Kai’s planet just as Beerus showed up. Yes Goku can hide his power but individuals that can sense KI and get a feel for how strong someone is. Korin demonstrates this with Perfect Cell when Goku asks him how strong he is and he states he generally knows how powerful Cell is despite the fact he was hiding his power. We see this numerous times throughout the series in fact the Z fighters could sense someone strong (future Trunks) while he square off against the Freeza Force despite their scouters reading a PL of 5. It’s silly to think Beerus the god of destruction who is millions of years old wouldn’t be able to gauge Gokus power even if he was hiding it. I’m perfectly fine with the idea that Goku in base hasn’t surpassed Freeza in base.

[@thekuzone7566]

Page 10 DBS manga shows him image training against Freza in SSJ, but that doesn't mean much.

[@Crow_Rising]

Something worth considering is that everything the fanbase thinks they know about power scaling likely isn't actually part of the writing and is sourced from old faulty guidebooks that were pulling nonsense out of the ether. For instance, Super Saiyan is never once within the series itself stated to be a 50 times multiplier, and does not consistently hold up to this multiplier logically. It kind of makes enough sense for Goku's first ever transformation into the form on Namek, but after this the logic breaks down more and more and it's likely that Super Saiyan doesn't have a strict multiplier at all and instead is more based on a combination between training and emotion. Super Saiyan is explained to occur when a Saiyan experiences the righteous fury to bring others to justice. It's a transformation that is expected to only appear for a pure hearted Saiyan, and seems to always be strongest when this specific emotional state is achieved. Rage in general will work for a power boost, but specifically righteous fury is best. Beerus's statement not thinking Goku's base form could beat Freeza could be a result of Freeza in his "base" (final) form having a higher power level than Goku and him not realizing that Goku has the fighting skill to make up for the difference. For an example of what I'm talking about, it gets stated later on into Super by Vegeta (I think it's during Super Hero?) that Goku and Vegeta's bodies reached peak condition years ago and that they aren't going to get any stronger in that regard, and Jiren is roughly about their equal in this regard and was as strong as he was in the ToP because of his balance between Mind, Body, and Spirit. Basically, Goku and Vegeta are Jiren's equals in body, but he has them beat in Mind and/or Spirit. Vegeta's able to somewhat replicate Jiren's power and uses it to beat Goku in a sparring match by clearing his mind and trying to move like Jiren does without wasted micromovements. Freeza is a mutant and a natural prodigy, so it's possible that his peak physical condition is uniquely advantaged compared to Goku and Vegeta. He's able to be much stronger in regards to his body, and so it takes outdoing him in other regards for Goku to surpass him without transforming. As we later see in the RoF arc, Goku is roughly about equal in his base form to Freeza's base form in their fight, so it's quite likely that Freeza's a bit stronger than he was on Namek due to his training and Goku's a LOT stronger than he was on Namek due to having had a decade of experience and even some time training with Whis recently before the fight. Everything about Goku in his base form having an astronomically high power level compared to back when he was on Namek is pure headcanon not at all backed up by the internal series logic. If I were to pinpoint when Goku and Vegeta's bodies reached peak condition, it would be the training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber before the Cell Games. From then on their actual power levels probably never went up again in their base forms and any gains to their strength game from training and building up their skill, control over their emotions, new transformations, or a combination of any/all of these. They might still be capable of raising their cap via Zenkai boosts, but at this point it's arguable whether these boosts would still be permanent or even noteworthy.

[@makyeallen1764]

How's it goin' fuggin'?? It's been a while. Great explanation brother, most people don't seem to understand or even grasp the idea of suppression while in base, or at all really.. Hell.. These characters can suppress themselves in their transformations, so of course they can dip it to nearly zero.. But yet, people still bitch and whine about that line from Beerus.. lol Take care friend! Peace!! 😁✌

[@mAcChaosCh]

I think you have to ask what the purpose of the writers making Beerus make that comment in the first place was. Obviously Goku could've been in less than full power, but then what is that telling the audience? It had to have been put there for a reason, and that reason was to give us new information. There was no reason for the exchange otherwise. Also, in universe wise, Beerus is so good at sensing power that he can sense suppressed depths. Actually, other characters do it too, like Dabura when he killed Kibito but could tell Goku/Gohan/Vegeta had more power. But Beerus picked up Goku hiding in King Kai's house instantly.

[@leoneyamada5408]

He is able to raise and lower his power in ANY form

[@newhybrid101]

Toriyama didnt write the dialogue. Only the general events and structure of the film. That line isnt from him

[@user-hu7rq1sy8q]

Thank you for setting people straight on base form power

[@user-qs1my4zi2b]

Goku was training on king kai's planet at the time. There was no way he was suppressed down anywhere near 5 battle power and still moving those weights in x10 gravity. Suppressing a power level takes about as much concentration as increasing it. Thats why dende couldnt suppress his power on namek. I think Beerus' statement is accurate given the circumstances.

[@ssyn6626]

See this is why I really like the dbz power set, image Superman would have to be super careful to do anything but with the dbz powers you just lower your power to whatever you need it makes having super strength and what not practical

[@dmanp9049]

All headcanon btw

[@stephenchambers7972]

it would explain why krillin could hurt goku with a rock.

[@The_LunchBox]

Goku ain't gonna train at a Suppressed state. It would gain next to nothing in regard to power. Goku trains all out (him shooting himself with max power Kamehameha on the way to namek) so in his king kai training he'd also be going all out to push further. It's cute but implausible

[@eduardoviera1586]

not to mention Zekai boost along the way.

[@The_LunchBox]

Well. Except that when goku trains he goes all out to push his power further. So when beerus arrived "mid training" goku didn't have time to Suppress his power. That's just how strong beerus is.

[@TruBaus210]

People forgot about old school dragonball, Z, and GT or maybe we're just old fans now lol

[@JJJJ-he8bz]

Beerus says as a super sayain he was barely stronger than Freiza and we know this isn’t true like do we really think cell games super sayain goku wouldn’t one shot Freiza? Stop it😂

[@clintonsmythers4478]

goku can even suppress his power in super saiyan blue and thats why he got injured by a weak laser.

[@noturproblemford]

Goku sits there. Probably on like next to no power level all the time. Just casually chilling out just like when they were hiding their power levels on namek

[@MildarValsik]

My thoughts... All the Earthlings learned something that the rest of the universe didn't. Power suppression. The Z fighters first step was mostly that and could raise it when needed. Beerus didn't know these people was even doing that. The power they couldn't hold back was their relaxed base form. Which no one else could do. Goku's relaxed base for was both the max he could suppress without realizing he is doing it and as Beerus was reading his potential power level he couldn't realize how good he could be. I would Bet that the first step of UI is being able to Suppress every bit of power to 0 at a true base form fully relaxed. Then as fast as Instant transmission spike power levels to full power again. That's why goku first did UI, it because he was depleted. He had no power to rely on. UI is the act of complete and instant control of power as a base ability.

[@sam3kperv]

Other example of this is when Frieza come back to Earth in resurrection f , Goku said to Frieza he don't have to go ssj to fighting him , and Frieza after the 4 months training first form along was in the trillions, so rite there Goku's in base was stronger than ssj3...

[@chrisbarkeryt4114]

Don’t mess with us Dragon ball fans, we don’t watch our own show

[@Tekx17]

This shouldn't be a question bcz goku base form fought final form freiza and he was walking bro

[@lyricmammal3724]

I wonder how these fans think Krillin does his fighting and manages his power...

[@hectorespudo5565]

YESSSSS!!!!!! i hate how dbs people think that whatever characters say is always factual. Makes for some spicy reading material lmao

[@Luke973T]

Wasnt goku training at the time? Why wouldnt he just raise his base power? Did the fans forget or did the writers forget that he could do that? Also freeza never said what his max power level was...that was a filler scene showing his and gokus power. Toriyama wanted to get away from those numbers for a reason.

[@nendoroiddancing7361]

Goku faced freeza in base form in super and the movie

[@saltyk9869]

I mean even if Goku _only_ had a base form max of 20 million, his SSJ form would be a billion. Almost 10 times stronger than Namek Saga Frieza. Personally, I’ve always figured that is about where Buu Saga Goku was. Really powerscaling is screwy in Dragon Ball with all the transformations and fusions. I personally don’t overthink it as we get crazy things like Tien stopping Super Buy’s attack and Krillen standing up to SSJ Blue Goku (mostly in fuller). There’s also Cabba being roughly equal to Vegeta in base.

[@Genojo]

As simple as that in resurrection of freezer Goku base could beat Freezer 3rd transormation.

[@sanauj15]

Shouldn’t Beerus know that Goku is suppressed though. He is a god after all.

[@khalifabinhendi6107]

I am not that big a fan of DB and I knew the base form power level is not always a set number.

[@alexandersedmak9317]

Why wouldn't beerus assume Goku was suppressed? As an experienced fighter wouldn't he know fighters don't walk around at full power?

[@Vertraic]

Except everything from Raditz to Frieza showed that anyone not from earth DID walk around at full power. They were constantly getting shocked by Earth fighter's power levels suddenly spiking when they entered combat. In the fight against Raditz it wasn't enough to actually scare him (other than the Gohan rage bonus) but it was still a surprising jump.

[@alexandersedmak9317]

@@Vertraic bro what? Frieza constantly walked around at full power? Lmao?

[@Vertraic]

@@alexandersedmak9317 He literally had to transform into what was essentially another species to 'suppress' his power. He was not just holding it down the way earth's warriors did. Now, the power ups in his final form could be applicable, but even then it was closer to a minor transformation if you looked at how his body changed/bulked up as he came closer to 100%

[@LygarZeroX]

base goku is like power level 5-10. he is in a relaxed state of almost no power.

[@simonsonlyfan8600]

So what you're saying is... Ox King can beat a surprised Super Saiyan Goku

[@BB-oi7rd]

I mean I think it is reasonable that "base" Goku even at the start of Super could be weaker than "base" Frieza. Sure on Namek his base power level was around 3 million or so but still that's what a 117 million difference. Goku needed a combination of intense training and a zenkai boost to reach that 3 million on Namek. After the Namek saga Goku didn't seem to get that many zenkai boosts and training can only get you so far especially when everyone is so much weaker than you except one guy who up until recently didn't want anything to do with you except beat you. Android Saga - Goku primarily trained with Gohan and Piccolo over the 3 year time skip. Let's be real Goku at that time was so much more powerful than them that training was more for them than him. Cell Saga - Again we don't really see Goku train his base form much if at all. He was primarily focused on mastering the Super Saiyan form and making Gohan stronger. So unless that heart virus gave him a zenkai boost I doubt he increased his base power all that much from his fight with Android 19. Buu Saga - If Goku was gonna train his base form up it would be over this 7 year gap while dead. That said I think it's more likely he would be striving to reach Super Saiyan 2 than anything and accidentally stumbled up 3 which he hadn't mastered upon its introduction so he probably spent time figuring out the pros and cons of said form compared to Super Saiyan 2. All that said while Beerus is fallible I don't think he is foolish enough not to realize Goku is suppressing his power especially when comparing to Frieza who was meant to be the strongest natural mortal in the universe.

[@dyslectische]

Beerus go down by bulma with just a slap on his face So what power ??

[@truegamer2819]

so what you're saying is, that Goku tricked Beerus again? 😂

[@erher1433]

is beerus stupid or something? at that point everyone's dog and it's father could tell when someone was suppressed

[@cywh1711]

Cause he is.

[@MARSENEX]

Something along the lines if dragon ball fans cant read. Bro did yall not know that?

[@willemcenter8649]

GT fan here ready to smear Super: To think that Beerus’ statement is wrong is pretty silly. We see Beerus suppress his power. We also see Goku project Beerus’ power after interacting with the suppressed Beerus. They clearly project each others powers fairly accurately without seeing it on full display. Sucks to suck Super but Full Power Frieza (120m) > Goku base during battle of Gods. This is further supported by base Goku being a fair match for Frieza in their fight before they used Gold and Blue during the RF movie and arc. They have each trained before that movie but it seems they scaled similarly and then each were focused on use of their transformations. Further supported by Black Frieza since at the next great training opportunity Frieza primarily unlocked a new form