Why Characters Got Cut: Super Smash Bros. Brawl - The Forbidden Seven (& Friends)

[@ATalkingSock]

So nostalgic. I was positively obsessed with the forbidden 7 prior to Smash 4's announcement.

[@fawul6461]

Love your vids man! :D

[@CheeseTooth]

Keep up your content!!!

[@freddyforsmash6783]

Geno was scrapped for brawl And smash 4 And he is a mii in ultimate Geno is literally the smash bros embodiment of bad luck even more than waluigi at this point

[@martymcfly1312]

I don’t think he was scrapped in Smash 4 since that was where his Mii costume debuted. I think Brawl was the only game where he was considered for a playable spot.

[@MakoShiruba]

He was never considered beyond Brawl. Whatever happened there most likely deterred Sakurai from considering him ever again

[@freddyforsmash6783]

@@MakoShiruba Oh my bad Thanks for telling me :)

[@solgerWhyIsThereAnAtItLooksBad]

He was a mii in Wii U too

[@IcyDiamond]

@@freddyforsmash6783 *Sad PapaGenos Noises*

[@maplesyrup6475]

Everyone always says that the TP Sheik design in Smash was made just for that game, but I could swear that Sakurai hard confirmed that the design was made for TP and went unused.

[@Conductor1991]

www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/characters/sheik.html No, you aren't crazy

[@nickkoster7087]

It indeed went unused for TP, but was most likely just their artists conceptualizing w/out the story/game writers ever intending to use her.

[@wesleyheinecke3878]

I feel pretty confident that Toon Sheik is referring to Tetra. While it’s somewhat odd that the character isn’t just labeled as Tetra, I think that it’s listed as Toon Sheik to confirm that it’s a transformation character tied to Toon Zelda rather than each being their own separate characters

[@u.srooster3880]

I think that the developers meant Tetra but that put Toon Sheik as they weren't given a name of the character yet or or it was easier to read in the codes

[@gamemaster2819]

Wind Waker had been out for a few years by that point, and if they wanted to call her Tetra, they would have called her Tetra. Considering how far on the back burner she was, it's a safe assumption she was supposed to be a semi-clone of Sheik just as Toon Link was and Toon Zelda was planned to. But Sheik's moveset doesn't really fit a pirate. I have to agree with Source Gaming and believe this was just an original Wind Waker inspired design for Sheik like what happened with Twilight Princess Sheik.

[@alphie1765]

Broke: Toon Sheik is Tetra Woke: Toon Sheik is Sakurai’s DeviantArt OC

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Could the Polygons, Wireframes and Alloys count as Sakurai Deviantart OCs?

[@alphie1765]

@@brandonwilliams6119 technically Giga Bowser also

[@IcyDiamond]

@@brandonwilliams6119 You forgot about Master Hand, Crazy Hand, Tabuu, Master Core, Sandbag, etc

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Honestly I’ll take any Smash OC playable but if I had to choose one, it would be Sandbag.

[@IcyDiamond]

@@brandonwilliams6119 Sandbag would be a great joke character lol

[@RogersBase]

I'm still sad we never got Plusle & Minun. They would've had such a cool moveset!

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Same! I’m still sad we never got Zoroark in Smash 4, no Gen 3 or 5 rep, it still hurts.

[@IcyDiamond]

Maybe as a replacement for Pichu in the next game?

[@juanrodriguez9971]

I feel like both could have been a bad addition imo, the last thing I want is to have 4 Pikachus, 2 feels too unnecessary right now.

[@Masked_Mastermind]

Meh, it would have been like having two Pichus as one character. I’m more sad that we never got Blastoise as a character.

[@bombs2848]

@@juanrodriguez9971 I feel like it wouldn't be too bad. Plusle and Minun could've had ice climber's gimmick with a new spin and considering there are two of them they could probably have different moves compared to pikachu and pichu.

[@TomTheyy]

You forgot to mention how Plusle & Minum are the only other "special criteria unlock" Pokemon trophies in the game other than cut veterans Pichu and Mewtwo!

[@TomTheyy]

While it obviously wouldn't have been in Toon Zelda's moveset, did Zelda's new Spirit Tracks special in 4 come about as a reference to the scrapped Toon Zelda character?

[@nsbathome]

@@TomTheyy Probably not. The phantom wasn't a toon Zelda thing until Spirit Tracks, which came out quite a while after Brawl.

[@TomTheyy]

@@nsbathome Sure, but maybe as some level of reference to Toon Zelda when given the opportunity in Smash 4 rather than an attack they actually planned Toon Zelda to use in Brawl, seeing as Sheik was using the down special and not even Toon Link had straight up new moves from his parent fighter. Also a question, if Toon Sheik was included as a fighter and ended up being split like regular Zelda and Sheik, where would she fit into All-Star mode? The only other partially Smash-created fighters are Mr. Game & Watch who still fits into the position and the Miis, whose specific typing, customisable nature and Smash branding seem to exempt them from the mode. Would Toon Sheik be exempt too?

[@Hisho30]

Honestly, I still felt bad that Krystal was cut during Brawl's development. Knowing that Wolf got in because his moveset are somewhat similar to Fox and Falco and cut work in half? I'm aware, as a computer scientist grad, it makes sense. To develop Krystal would take more work and time and probably delay Brawl's release window even further. I would thought she might have a chance for Smash 4, but that wasn't the chance. I'm somewhat glad she finally got in as an assist trophy, but it stings that she's not playable. Maybe next smash game, I suppose. If there will be another smash game in the future

[@sonicmario64]

Yeah, I still couldn't get over Krystal becoming an Assist Trophy instead of a playable character as I had hoped despite how much I love to play "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate" (the same also goes for Shovel Knight), and I also think Krystal deserves to be playable so that Isabelle wouldn't be the only female animal character in the game as well.

[@mjgoat5978]

yea because 1 character would make HALF the difference of work on brawl… jesus some dont think..

[@wherewego6960]

We'd probably need a new Star Fox game first. With Krystal in it of course.

[@NicktoonsA]

Isabelle isn't the only, pikachu's last two styles are female and some people consider jiggly puff as female

[@orangeslash1667]

@@sonicmario64 Kazooie from Banjo and Kazooie has been confirmed female.

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

11:04 Like I said before, Sheik's Brawl Design was actually designed for Twilight Princess, but was never used for that game as Sheik could possibly be cut during development of Twlight Princess. In fact there is more proof to this, as I have a copy of the Legend of Zelda 25th Anniversary Art Book by Dark Horse Publishing and licensed by Nintendo which contains the Hyrule Histroria. And if you look at the Twlight Princess Section of the Art Book's Concept Art, it clearly says, that Sheik was originally planned to be in Twlight Princess with concept art of Twilight Princess Sheik to prove it was originally the case, but Sheik was remove in Twlight Princess's development, with the reasons being unclear. However this is only for the Twlight Princess design of Sheik, which was originally designed for Sheik to be in Twlight Princess which Sheik was removed, I don't think Toon Sheik was planned to be in Wind Waker to begin with, so bascially, what I already said and what's I'm also saying is, Sheik's design in Brawl and Smash for Wii U and 3DS wasn't made specficially for Brawl to match up with Zelda's Twlight Princess design, it was originally designed for Sheik so that she can be included in Twlight Princess, however she was scrapped during development of Twilight Princess. meanwhile Toon Sheik is most likely designed to match up with Toon Zelda which never happened because again, they, or should I say she because Zelda & Sheik are the same person, were cut.

[@UmbraCuticus]

i still from this day think krystal with her staff would be a fun unique character

[@FoxySpartan117]

Me too man, me too.

[@GoogleMapsTablet]

different styles for the 8 different colors you can use + the one on the thumbnail

[@joniivee]

I'm loving this series. It takes me back to learning about this stuff years ago and even teaches me a good amount.

[@MarioFanferlife]

Talking about potential characters before Brawl was finished and came out is especially nostalgic for me. Before it came out, that was when I finally had internet access. And, some of my earlier internet memories was engaging in forums, refreshing that Smash Dojo every week, and talking about what characters we wanted or could happen in Brawl. I was one of the ones campaigning for Geno and Banjo & Kazooie. Since then, obviously, I've been positively glowing since B-K made it into Ultimate. They were even my ballot vote at the end of Smash 4. With a thought out paragraph of why to accompany it. And, the desire for Geno has sort of tempered during the lead up to Smash 4. As much as I would love to see him be a real character, I could do without him. I got over that phase of obsessively wanting the original Mario RPG to become relevant again. Thinking back on it all, it's crazy. There were multiple times during those days when characters were discussed, where people brought up Diddy Kong, DeDeDe, Pac-Man, Ryu, Mega Man, Lin, Ike, and/or Edgar, Terra, Cloud, Sonic, Olimar, etc. And, quite a few of them actually end up happening through the course of the next couple of Smash entries. Keep in mind that Smash Dojo was still gradually showing us what the game was going to have. Like, a bunch of characters whom even I doubted back then. I remember seeing people make sketches for Pac-Man and Olimar movesets in particular and thought, "I love Pikmin and like Pac-Man, but how would these characters realistically work? I doubt they'll make it." And, when Olimar in particular was confirmed, that was the moment for me as a Smash fan when I realized: Anyone can become a fighter.

[@Blue_Boy_Official]

"I got over that phase of obsessively wanting the original Mario RPG to become relevant again" Well, that wish eventually came true. Didn't come in the form of a Smash fighter though.

[@scarffoxandfriends9401]

What makes Geno difficult is that unlike other characters, he has to go through Sqaure. People like to point to Banjo on why Geno would get in, but modern Microsoft is perfectly fine with adding a character for fan service and not to relate to a product. Sqaure on the other hand is very much the type of company who would want their character double as advertisement for a new game.

[@TomTheyy]

Yeah plus Microsoft can actually still just go and make merch for Banjo & Kazooie since they're a whole franchise. Geno was just one game's side character that's like, irrevocably linked to another company's property? Square seemingly always had bigger fish to fry when it came to characters in Smash, and two of the biggest JRPG series ever and then properly bringing one of the former on par with literally every other 3rd-party series' representation in the game, can you blame them? Cloud was such a huge reveal for a reason.

[@IcyDiamond]

I feel that Geno would’ve already gotten into Smash Bros if he was owned primarily by Nintendo and not by Square, since Sakurai has included other irrelevant Nintendo characters in the game like Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, Pit, etc

[@TomTheyy]

@@IcyDiamond I could see that considering Brawl had main Mario characters already and Sakurai himself wanted him sorta. Kinda like Piranha Plant as the joke character.

[@scarffoxandfriends9401]

@@IcyDiamond I agree

[@IcyDiamond]

@@scarffoxandfriends9401 I’m glad you agree with me

[@dysphoria-chan]

And even the "pra_mai" is the Random slot doesn't have much sense in Japanese. If that refers to "Every Character", it should be spelled "毎プレイヤー" (Mai Pureiyaa) and shortened to "mai_pre".

[@SonicTheCutehog]

People think Sakurai doesn't care about Geno even though he literally said he wanted to add him as a playable character in Brawl.

[@toumabyakuya]

@@Improvisado64 I would say Square is the one holding him back. Just think about it, Square has nothing to benefit from letting Geno in, unlike Nintendo, so they have no good reason to let him in.

[@IrieIslandGaming]

Geno is the character I want most! I guess that gives me some hope for future games..maybe it will happen!

[@ForsakenMemories45]

@@toumabyakuya It's not that they don't have anything to benefit, as Geno would make them money, but he's just not as big as other franchises they have because of the falling out that happened in the 90s.

[@toumabyakuya]

@@ForsakenMemories45 *"as Geno would make them money,..."* True enough, however, it would also make money for Nintendo thanks to being an Smash DLC, something Square might not want.

[@seangoldman6833]

@@toumabyakuya Counter point...Cloud. I have no idea what hurt feelings and legal red tape is stopping it from happening but I'd love for Geno to be in Smash or even better a SMRPG2.

[@Stellerman7]

Glad Krystal was at least able to make it in as an assist trophy but I really hope there's a playable fighter version in the cards some day.

[@4xzx4]

What's interesting about Plusle & Minun is that they had a trophy dedicated to them. You had to beat an achievement in order to unlock it.

[@KrazyKaiju714]

Brawl: Villager wouldn't feel right as a fighter. Smash 4 and Ultimate: All the axe murderer memes.

[@raphaelmarquez9650]

How would Brawl's CSS look like have they been given more time to include the forbidden seven?

[@maplesyrup6475]

All I know is that if they had delayed that game one more time I would have died.

[@fernandobanda5734]

Probably not as clean.

[@GuyOnAChair]

10:56 Sheik was cut from Twilight Princess and had art for them. Allegedly even the model was reused like Ganons was from Space World.

[@erikwithak5514]

I will forever be sad that Krystal isn’t a playable Starfox rep. She would be a unique Starfox rep in contrast to the 3 that we have, as well as another female character which is always nice

[@retrogamermax8287]

Agreed. Krystal is my most wanted Nintendo character.

[@erickmaverick3128]

Yeah, she'd be my ideal Star Fox newcomer.

[@KahunaLagoona]

And then Nintendo in their efforts to keep Star Fox fresh and interesting by essentially remaking the plot of 64 which was a remake of the SNES's game's plot retroactively took Krystal out of the series.

[@retrogamermax8287]

@@KahunaLagoona Miyamoto needs to stop remaking the original Star Fox over and over again since he has remade it 4 times with Star Fox, Star Fox 2, 64 and Zero. The series hasn't had a actual progressive entry since Command in 2006 which was 16 years ago which is really sad to think about. The Star Fox series will never move forward if Miyamoto just keeps trying to reinvent the wheel with the original over and over again. As sad as it is to say, Krystal's future making it into another Star Fox entry all depends on them actually making a new title which Miyamoto might not allow.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Yeah Krystal would’ve been amazing in Smash, he Staff would bring a very fun playstyle in Smash.

[@GoldenYuiitusin]

Never subscribed to the "Every Player" bullshit, but the problem with "Pra_Mai" being Plusle and Minun is....they are literally never shortened to that anywhere, not even in Brawl's trophy data, where their names are listed together in full and not in any way that matches "Pra" and "Mai" together. It's been years since I've seen internal filename but it's either "plusleminin" or "prasleminun". No "Mai", which is only relevant in phonetics when saying Minun's name in Japanese. Speaking of, that's another issue. Why would they use phonetics for a Pokemon's name in the character files when they haven't done that for literally any other Pokemon? Mewtwo wasn't "Myuutsu". Lucario wasn't "Rukario". Charizard was given the "Lizardon" label in the Trainer files rather than "Rizaadon". So why in ANY context would Minun be "Mainan" or shorthand "Mai"? As many reasons people can make up for it being Plusle and Minun, there are plenty of other reasons why it can't be. Which is why we simply will never know the actual identity of the fighter until Sakurai reveals who it was supposed to be (which is unlikely to ever happen). Plusle and Minun is merely a reasonable THEORY that only works at surface level.

[@thedapperdolphin1590]

Not really a cut character in the normal sense, but Inafune mentioned he created concepts for Megaman to be a playable character in Brawl. He thought that Nintendo might have wanted to approach him about adding Megaman, but it never happened. Megaman was a really popular character request back then, but isn’t talked about much anymore. He was announced during Smash 4’s initial reveal, but I wonder how many people would have been vocal about him if they held off on the announcement.

[@KahunaLagoona]

Yeah, Sakurai said that during the Brawl days Megaman was just never considered, so I guess between Brawl and Smash 4 and 5 (according to Sakurai's words) either Inafune approached Nintendo/Sakurai or fan outcry got to Nintendo and they made the call.

[@IcyDiamond]

He would’ve become what Crash is to Ultimate imo

[@skellez]

​@@KahunaLagoonanot really it's just Sakurai changed his mind as to what Smash was meant to be Shifted from nintendo fighting game to celebration of gaming party action, and this shift in philosophy design allowed all the characters in Smash 4 that don't really seem fit to fight

[@thadeusaegeon3491]

Rest in Peace, Toon Zelda's chances for Smash. There was really no new Zelda characters. Spirit Tracks was a great game and she could've got a phantom moveset.

[@MedliMelodii]

I was looking forward for her to be in smash tho and maybe make Tetra and Toon Zelda as seperate characters and have original movesets instead of copying Zelda and Sheik

[@flop929real]

PMEX Remix:🫣

[@UniqueHybridDragon]

I never even knew that Brawl had so many characters cut, not even the forbidden 7. I also keep forgetting that time was a major issue when developing Brawl, such as more story points being cut from "The Subspace Emissary." And though most of this information is new to me, the information on why Krystal was cut, is something I thought of. And I was right, it was because of time & development. But it's nice to know that those were the reasons why, & not because of certain other "content." Oh, & I knew about Ridley's reason too.

[@aaronlo9651]

If Pac-Man wasn't "suited for Brawl", Sakurai should've checked out the Pac-Man World games

[@Tartubeman]

Judging by Sm4sh, he did. and looked at Pac-Land.

[@IcyDiamond]

Imagine asking Sakurai back in the Brawl days to make a moveset for Piranha Plant

[@Compucles]

@@Tartubeman Sadly, he looked at "Pac-Land" too much and used it to make one of the worst stages in the entire franchise to date.

[@beatfromjetsetradio8239]

Maybe I’m biased, but can we call Sonic’s moveset “unique,” being as many spindashes as it is?

[@wolfdragox5563]

Yes, his moveset sucks but he’s a “unique” character

[@orangeslash1667]

@@wolfdragox5563 His movetset needs to be simple so that he's not over powered, because he's the fastest character in the game.

[@86sensual]

These videos are SO fun to binge watch ngl, great job and great vid dude

[@justinnzamora5366]

I'm still baffled on why Dixie Kong is still not playable in Smash. When K. Rool joined the roster, I thought Dixie felt like a shoo-in.

[@Compucles]

She's not a high priority once the proposed dual character mechanic was scrapped. I mean, what else aside from her hair twirling really separates her from Diddy as a fighter?

[@calebproductions1264]

I’m baffled as well, if she was playable as DLC then we probably would’ve gotten one of the DK stages from Brawl or 4 that they didn’t put in Ultimate, then again seeing as though all of the other DLCs are just new stages, I doubt one of them would return.

[@lucasm4299]

@@Compucles How about Tiny Kong? She can twirl her hair, plays saxophone, has a feather shooter, can turn small, and teleport according to DK64.

[@jeff4118]

She was only considered as a way to enhance Diddy's moveset, never as a standalone character.

[@BerninaPoubelle]

They could’ve added her as an echo fighter for Diddy Kong. I would have loved it if Birdo was Yoshi’s echo fighter

[@Zoroark_Master]

14:08 yep braixen, the most popular middle evolution starter (personally not complaining since braixen is my favourite non fully evolve Pokémon)

[@calebproductions1264]

I would take Braixen over Incineroar any day, since she would’ve been more fun to play as.

[@Zoroark_Master]

@@calebproductions1264 although I founded a new appreciation of incineroar through his inclusion to smash and like to play as him, I would definitely take braixen over him (but since the ultimate Pokémon newcomer had to be a gen7 mon, braixen wasn’t an option)

[@chunkymonkey7983]

Haha, don't search up "Braixen" on google.

[@Zoroark_Master]

@@chunkymonkey7983 who’s to say I haven’t already did it?

[@esrever6948]

I'm surprised he never considered megaman or bomberman

[@aquasnake4528]

I never made that Plusle and Minun connection. That’s a cool thought. Sad it couldn’t happen.

[@lemonviper]

Toon Sheik (if she was added) would still not have been the first Smash original character because Roy’s game was still not out when Melee released.

[@sirfluffythegreat420]

What were Midna’s chances for Brawl? Twilight Princess came out recently then, so was any consideration given?

[@Tjprower]

Krystal would've definitely been mine. I was one of the ones asking for her to be added. And she was also one of the first moddded characters I added via gecko when Brawl + was around. She ported quite well and her moveset was made with maxing the filesize in mind - she had two completely different movesets that one could swap between by taunting. So in some ways, I'm glad she didn't get in official because the mod was way better.

[@EdwinShy3200]

While I do like Wolf but I'm a bit bummed Krystal didn't make it in as a fighter in Brawl or games after it She's been my #1 most wanted fighter since the Pre-Brawl era but I am happy she's in Ultimate as an assist trophy at least which means she isn't forgotten

[@thunderfister7536]

I might be mistaken, but wasnt there an interview back during brawl's development where Sakurai stated that he wanted three 3rd party characters for brawl? And wasnt there also a mention that one of them would most likely be a capcom fighter? Then again, I might have remembered it wrong, but I feel like ive read that somewhere...

[@Conductor1991]

www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_rumors Go under third third party character under Brawl.

[@audoodle9963]

I really hope when ultimate is truly over Sakurai gets to speak his piece on all the characters they added. That Nintendo dream interview about the smash 4 dlc was so helpful in actually learning the process for smash characters and stages

[@thomaslayman9487]

"toon sheik would be the first original smash bros playable fighter" technically mr game and watch is not a character and was invented just for smash !

[@AtracBreezy]

You could argue ROB too since he’s literally a piece of plastic and not really a “character”

[@WFOnaga]

@@AtracBreezy Still a character with a already made design

[@toag3822]

the mii fighters were also created exclusively for smash

[@perkilatorxiii5179]

How I'd handle the Forbidden Seven: -Mewtwo, Dr. Mario and Roy would return, obviously -Plusle and Minun would be a tag team serving as a spiritual successor to Pichu's moveset -Tetra would be a fully unique fighter -Dixie would be Diddy's Echo Fighter

[@davidhill8565]

If they had one more year of development time, which they should have, as 2009 was the 10th anniversary of the original game, Krystal would’ve joined the roster.

[@TurkeyFaceX]

As a Mewtwo main, it's sad to hear that he almost made the cut. If he made it into Brawl's roster he probably would have been in Smash 4's base roster instead of being the first DLC fighter. Now instead of being a shoo-in, I have to nervously wonder if Mewtwo will make the cut for each and every game going forward.

[@justinnzamora5366]

Mewtwo should be here to stay from here on out. A little fun fact: Mewtwo was the first Pokemon character to appear in the "Everyone is here" trailer. Yes. Mewtwo, not Pikachu was shown first.

[@Compucles]

Well, it would help if it had a better moveset. Shadow Ball is great, its Final Smash is good, Teleport is OK, and parts of its psychically-assisted "physical" moveset are fine, but the rest of it is terribly under-cooked and by no means does it justice. Confusion and Disable as its other special moves (although at least the formed was improved in "Ultimate")?! Tail whacking?! Firing off a cluster of mini Shadow Balls instead of a different projectile like Swift?! Ugh!

[@TurkeyFaceX]

@@Compucles I wish they took a page out of Project M's book and make it so you can attack out of a teleport. I want confusion to be faster so I can actually reflect a projectile without having to anticipate one being fired. Confusion is too slow to activate AFTER a projectile is fired unless the opponent is halfway across the stage. And lastly I wish charging a shadow ball dealt damage like it did in Melee. That's about it, if they made those three changes I would be 100% satisfied with his move-set. Now if we're talking about a complete makeover, I kinda hope the next game in the series is a complete makeover for every character. We've been using the same moves for all the veterans for years and there are much more recent games they could take inspiration from as well as the classics. This would also be a great way to rebalance the whole game too.

[@Compucles]

@@TurkeyFaceX Are you saying you actually like Mewtwo's Disable special? Isn't that consistently rated as one of the worst special moves (not counting certain custom ones in Smash 4) in the franchise? Anyway, they do modify the veterans occasionally. They all got a new special in Melee. Mario got that terrible FLUDD move starting in Brawl. Bowser got a new side special starting in Brawl (although I prefer his claw slash in Melee. Zelda and Sheik got additional down specials starting in Smash 4 (as did Charizard just for those 2 games). Pit got a new side special starting in Smash 4. Olimar/Alph and Zero Suit Samus got new up specials starting in Smash 4. Palutena got her special moveset reworked in Ultimate. Link got new motion sensing bombs in Ultimate. Ganandorf got some sword moves in Ultimate. Several Final Smashes have been changed. And so on... Although, I do agree that more updates could be made. As I already mentioned, Mewtwo at the very least needs something better than Disable. Ganondorf should maybe just have his special moveset completely redone to finally separate him completely from Captain Falcon. Pikachu and Pichu could use something better than Skull Bash. Sonic could use a side special that isn't so similar to his down special...

[@TurkeyFaceX]

@@Compucles Wait, are you kidding? Mewtwo's Disable move is OP as heck. Difficult to land sure, but when you do if your opponent has a ton of damage its an easy KO. Just stand there and charge a smash attack. Seriously, how could anyone consider this a bad move?

[@asafjuarez1]

I remember Yoshiller, I used to watch his vids when I was a kid especially his legs plays for NSMBWii alongside the runaway guys, sullypwnz, Wiiliketoplay, and Purplerodri

[@NoirePkmn]

For "Fire Emblem", it was probably a lord from the game Rekka No Ken which was the first FE game we got in the West and it's a cult classic for it. So that would be Eliwood who would obviously replace Roy, or they could have went with Lyn or Hector who are unique and pretty beloved characters.

[@TaleOfTheToaster]

So pleased we've finally made it to Geno's part of this series. It was watching Episodes 1 and 2 that made me want to make an entire video about the history of Geno in Smash, and that turned out to do really well! And it's all thanks to the Source, haha

[@MartynAndStuff]

I always consider Pokemon Trainer as the Gen 3 rep as its based on his FRLG appearance Well, it sort of counts, I guess ha

[@redtutel]

Leaf even more so. She debut in Gen 3

[@kenzonPower]

The Fire Emblem character would of been Micaiah, she is from Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, it came out in 2007 and a sequel to Ike's game, Micaiah is a mage, she also has a bird

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Is Micaiah the main character of Radiant Dawn? I’m thinking of giving the game a try.

[@Compucles]

The point is that they were looking to add 1 newer Fire Emblem character in addition to Marth. The "cut" options were the ones who lost out to Ike. If Micaiah had been included, then she would've been in place of Ike, not in addition to him.

[@Zebliin]

Micaiah would be awesome in Smash. The Sacred Stones twins were probably both up for consideration as well at the time

[@lilbonsly]

Plusle and Minun must have been a single character that looked like a pair imo

[@kayllisto]

Your audio could be a bit more stable, it’s not a big dea though. I really dig this channel! Glad I found it and for sure subscribing.

[@Jesus-hu4lq]

Basically would be awesome to see geno Ridley krystal doc and mewtwo just felt weird not seeing some of the melee characters not return. Thankfully before smash 4 the PM team brought mewtwo and roy back to life

[@martymcfly1312]

Rip Dixie Kong

[@Jake-ls2ou]

Really interesting! Had no idea about any of that. TY for the informative vid

[@SamWeltzin]

I was a Wolf secondary in Brawl and like him, but man, Krystal would've been so much more interesting to play. We still don't have a speedy magic user in Smash, or a magitech fighter, and with a cast of 80, those are major gaps. But now she's irrelevant, so I guess we'll never see her as more than an assist trophy. Unless Nintendo somehow actually makes another StarFox game with her, but not counting on that.

[@GigaMan91]

Oh snap! I can't wait!

[@SSJ22Terris]

Plusle and Minun could've been so cool. Now I've just got a bunch of ideas for them. C'est la vie. Pour one out for Geno though, maybe he'll be that surprise last character for Ultimate.

[@cactoos9793]

Jeez Brawl really is magical. I could just imagine the characters in Brawl graphics!

[@PeterGriffin11]

Everytime I hear about cut characters in brawl I immediately think about Adventure Mode if the team behind Brawl had enough time to add all the characters they wanted I wonder what role each of them would've played in the story and who they would've been paired with especially Mewtwo would it have been a villian, anti hero or just a plain good guy and how would they have added Dr. Mario to the story sense he's literally just Mario as a Doctor. Also I hope one day A Nintendog get's added as a playable character.

[@mds_516]

I always gave for granted that Plusle and Minum were intended as a tag team a la Ice Climbers, but I never considered the fact that Popo and Nana have two different slots, and given the fact that they probably replaced Pichu and inherited his moveset, I think you're totally right in speculating that they probably were palette swaps of each other a la Olimar and Alph. These videos are really interesting, both for learning these new things and for giving me lots of nostalgia of were I first heard those things during the smash 4 speculation days.

[@navyrockstudios471]

Let's go! Been waiting for this

[@RKOorDIE]

I still hold on to hope that Krystal makes it into a game. She definitely it more than most of these other characters

[@superagaming_064]

Maybe they can add more rejected fighters from the smash bros history in a future game

[@seththemage6029]

I wanted Dixie Kong in Smash since shortly after Diddy was announced (ironically, that's when I realized that she was a possibility for the game). I also mained Roy and Mewtwo in Melee, so I was very invested in the rumors surrounding the F7 when they were first discovered in Brawl's code. I remember people speculating about a Smash "channel" for the Wii that would add these characters as DLC to Brawl shortly after launch, and was pretty disappointed that nothing came of that. Dixie is still my most wanted to this day, even though she looks to have no chance at this point. I'd have been ecstatic to see her make the cut in Brawl, and would probably have mained her.

[@Sans-qs4wq]

Brawl is one of my favorite smash bros titles , besides melee and ultimate.

[@A_Bottle-Of_Orange_Crush]

I'd trade half my remaining lifespan for Krystal...

[@AdamHPerform06]

Even if Plusle/Minun got in, and Diddy paired up with Dixie, they all would've been cut in Smash 4 anyway, like the Ice Climbers.

[@Compucles]

Smash 4 still has Duck Hunt and Rosalina and Luma. It was Nana's AI that the 3DS couldn't handle. Although, even the Wii couldn't handle the mechanic they wanted for Diddy/Dixie, and who knows exactly how Plusle/Minun were intended to work?

[@AdamHPerform06]

@@Compucles The duck and dog have far different body proportions, same with Rosalina and Luma. Ice Climbers are completely identical from each other in body proportions, and the same can be said about Plusle/Minun and the two Kongs.

[@Compucles]

@@AdamHPerform06 So? That has nothing to do with why the Ice Climbers were cut from Smash 4.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@Compucles Fun Fact: Donkey Kong's spinning Kong is a reference to Dixie kong's hair move.

[@darkdoctor1915]

Doc and Mewtwo got cut and I’m still salty

[@kylewood4488-b9r]

STILL? Everyone is in Ultimate so I don't think their should be anyone upset about cut characters anymore. Would have been nice to see Krystal and Dixie be added in though.

[@darkdoctor1915]

@@kylewood4488-b9r, I know I'm just saying

[@brandonwilliams6119]

@@kylewood4488-b9r Fucking facts, Smash Lacks Females and Dixie and Krystal would be very welcome additions.

[@DarkGamer364]

@@brandonwilliams6119 well, the series is called Super Smash BROTHERS after all. That name implies that there have to be more males. PS: this was just a joke. Of course the name of the game doesn't affect which fighter get in, and I'm happy whith every new fighter no matter the gender.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@brandonwilliams6119 Fun Fact: Donkey Kong's spinning Kong is a reference to Dixie kong's hair move.

[@masonfaraday9020]

There was also Tetris, Chorus Kids and I believe Phoenix Wright. It was in a magazine.

[@TimBartja]

Very interesting. Makes me think about how different that game would have been if they made fighters passes from the Wii days

[@danieldiehl6063]

after knowing about the tag concept for Dixie being cut, I hope that if she ever gets added she brings Kiddy along...

[@lunchtiem]

If you ever feel bad because you think you are pronouncing a word wrong just remember that this guy exists and youll feel better

[@dr.c2195]

"Pra" is obviously "PyRA" and "May" is obviously "MYthra". They also got included later on in SSBU, confirming that Sakurai indeed wanted to add this 2-in-1 character all along.

[@MarieIThink]

It surprises me that puff was almost cut, Puff was originally in the og cast of 64

[@scarffoxandfriends9401]

"Unless you're Braixen" XD

[@GatorOne-in7hk]

Braixen is likely the one exception because of Serena’s in the anime.

[@scarffoxandfriends9401]

@@GatorOne-in7hk Nah, Braixen is the acception because people find them cute while Delphox comes across as some old lady. Especially with furry artist. They can fit in either the loli and femboy genre of art.

[@Yoshiller]

@@scarffoxandfriends9401 I mean, Braixen was definitely promoted a ton thanks to its prominent appearance in the anime. Because of Serena's Braixen, that led to Braixen becoming playable in Pokken and to merchandise of the Pokemon becoming very common. But yes, there's certainly something to be said about it being a furry, fox-like creature with a "teenage witch" trope attached to it. The point is, I don't think I've ever seen a middle-stage Pokemon become so popular, and that's coming from a guy whose favorite Pokemon is Bayleef! =P

[@IcyDiamond]

@@scarffoxandfriends9401 Have you ever seen the fanmade clip of Serena turning into Braixen?

[@scarffoxandfriends9401]

@@IcyDiamond Yes

[@FunkyFreshYT]

It hurts more after those recent Mii Costumes, aka: Lloyd, Dragonborn, Dante and Shante. *Ever since Sephiroth joined, smash really got despair...*

[@xaviergonzalez44]

I think that Geno's big hurdle that cut him was recoginition. He is a mario character, which Sakurai didn't want the roster to be clogged with. But you also can't really tell that he's a mario character, because he's had no presence outside a game and a cameo, which hurts his chances of be a recongizeable all star of gaming. Plus I think Square Enix owns the character. Sorry but I made this long comment because I was unsastified with this video's explantion for Geno being cut

[@kylewood4488-b9r]

I never understood the obsession with Geno. He is in 1 game that he isn't even the main character of.

[@MakoShiruba]

It's most likely Square Enix going "Why him? Why not a FF character? Or a DQ Character? You can have M Rated characters too, right? How about a Deus Ex character? Nier? Maybe Tomb Raider!"

[@KahunaLagoona]

@@MakoShiruba I highly doubt they would offer anyone but a FF or DQ character, tbh.

[@IcyDiamond]

@@KahunaLagoona really I think the only 2 reasons we got a second Final Fantasy rep were the remake coming out and Square wanting the extra Final Fantasy content to be DLC instead of base game

[@IcyDiamond]

@@MakoShiruba if they remade Mario RPG, then I could see them adding Geno in to promote that game

[@Conductor1991]

Worth the wait. Now, I understand better about how Young Link and Pichu missed the boat. Not to mention, Pra_Mai is listed right before Jigglypuff and Mewtwo. Speaking of Mewtwo, one of the most interesting things about his development in Brawl is that in some files he and Wario were switched. What do you think? I personally think the start of development Mewtwo was a higher priority than Wario. However, they had issues when they ported over Mewtwo from Melee because of his poor design. So, Mewtwo and Wario switched places. After, all Wario was highly requested and almost made the cut in Melee. Not to mention that Mewtwo wasn't really that popular in Melee, but still worth keeping during Brawl's development. Plus, the fact that Sakurai said he could of cut Mewtwo to make room for Wario in Melee.

[@TomTheyy]

Did he actually say that? Didn't he just say if there was enough time for another character in Melee Wario would have got in or something?

[@Conductor1991]

@@TomTheyy He did say that and he said he could've cut the fire emblem duo or Mewtwo to have time on Wario instead. But he didn't want to have many Mario characters.

[@IcyDiamond]

If Sakurai was so crazy about adding Wario to Smash, then why isn’t Waluigi in Smash Bros already?

[@TomTheyy]

@@IcyDiamond jokes aside, Waluigi literally never appears in any of Wario's games, was it?

[@IcyDiamond]

@@TomTheyy I never got why he never appeared in WarioWare, he’d fit in those games perfectly

[@powergannon]

I loved Smash 64 and Melee when I was a kid and teenager. When Brawl was announced I was SO excited. My top picks were Skull Kid, Banjo and Koozie, and Neku from the World Ends With You. At least we got one of them eventually!

[@TheDerpyDolphin]

Krystal, Dixie, and Toon Zelda really should be fighters in the next Smash game. Hopefully one of them gets in as the last Ultimate DLC but I don’t see that happening

[@starpetalarts6668]

In all honesty I wouldn't be angry if they added the forbidden 3 remaining from the 7 fighters... Dixie Kong maybe with Kiddie, Plusle & Minun, and with Toon Zelda retaining the transformation jutsu. Maybe when we can finally get tag teaming to work in-game Sakurai will go ham on adding duality fighters.

[@mikeydowikey4140]

Sakurai wouldn’t do that, it would take away from Ice Climbers’s individuality as a 2 in 1 fighter.

[@Medbread]

PraMai (Puramai) doesn't make sense for random, because Japanese is phonetic. Pura is always pronounced as Purah. "Player" is written as "Pureiyaa" which would make it have to be PreMai, which sounds completely different to PraMai. There is no room for any different spelling because of how Japanese works. Saying Pra stands for Player would be saying player is pronounced Plyer.

[@monkeyphuzz]

Imagine just having the starting Pokémon evolved and separate characters

[@ryanrichard8000]

Wow that's really interesting

[@zombyjano]

I mean I like Squirtle, but Blastoise tho ;_; Then again I can't imagine much of a moveset for the character.

[@capcaptainmycaptain4771]

I mean, I couldn't have really imagined Bowser would've had the moveset that he does. Anything's possible I guess

[@theedwardian]

Imagine how many characters we'd have if not for all the wasted time spent on subspace emissary and its goofy cutscenes

[@SmokeTheHorsehog]

Honestly, I do not see what Miyamoto hates so much about complex storytelling in Mario games. It was because of how Geno was part of this complex era that he was, three times in a row, denied a spot on the roster.

[@alexpotts6520]

No it isn't. Miyamoto doesn't have any creative influence over Super Smash Bros. Geno's missing for legal reasons.

[@p.e.miranda2038]

This here wins the dumbest Geno comment of the video

[@pakkuroni4614]

Imagine a timeline where Jigglypuff was cut entirely from smash, she's a silly and classic character it would be sad see her go

[@BobSaget4sometimes]

When you typed out Plusle and Minum in romaji you spelled them both wrong. The Katakana names are correct just not the romanized version. プラスル (purasuru)　マイナン (mainan).

[@vonbob5529]

I wanted to see Krystal get in.

[@jamiegioca9448]

6:02 The hate for Pichu clearly comes from his fragility. F-smash(and D-smash in Ultimate)? OUCH. F-air? OUCH. B-air(at least in Ultimate)? OUCH. Any specials? OUCH. Pummel (in Ultimate as well)? OUCH. F-throw (also in Ultimate)? OUCH. Final Smash? *MAJOR* OUCH.

[@louishunter944]

i bet we would be in flying cars and world hunger would be cured if geno got in to brawl lol

[@koko-chuu1409]

After watching the Sephiroth reveal trailer, you can see how Square doesn't want his ost/characters outside in other country, just Japan. So, maybe, that's why Geno wasn't added. So sad tbh.

[@SpringdayAutumnmoon]

Lyn's been getting robbed since 2008.

[@nightwish1453]

well, she has like a billion of alts in feh now so... revenge I guess?

[@sugme1098]

@@nightwish1453 Heroes fucking sucks

[@nightwish1453]

@@sugme1098 okay? just stating how Lyn gets a lot of special treatment in that game

[@Mikewolv007]

@@nightwish1453 now overtaken by Camilla as the alt queen.

[@nightwish1453]

@@Mikewolv007 still quite a lot

[@Heattokun]

I feel Duck Hunt might have been the end result of the Nintendog idea

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Brawl was the last great game in my opinion and looking back after all the years it was more *”Ultimate”* than Ultimate. Brawl: *PROS* -Godlike soundtrack -Cool stages (on paper) -Subspace Emissary -New characters -Snake and Sonic -Single player content -Coin Launcher, Chronicle, Masterpieces -Fair Representation for each series -Gave birth to many memorable Newgrounds Skits and Flash Animations _CONS_ -Slow gameplay -No hitstun -No combos -No Wavedashing -No L canceling -No Edge/Ledge cancel -Most characters suck -Online was trash but amusing for it’s time -The game is broken -Meta Knight -Disappointing Sequel Its not a bad game. It got so hyped when it came out, most smash fans that grew up playing smash 1 and smash 2 got disappointed with smash 3 but personally I was a full on casual and loved Brawl so much for delivering on that.

[@wolfdragox5563]

In all fairness, The whole smash “trilogy” is broken, many complain about Brawl but smash 64 and melee are far from being much better in that sense, sure you don’t have tripping in those games and there’s more combo potential as well as faster gameplay but they all have yank and characters that are straight up broken I’m gonna make a hot take and say that smash 4 was the first fully functional smash game, all previous games had characters with broken hit boxes and broken exploits thanks to rushed development, granted Sm4sh had some of that too but at least the game worked more as it was intended instead of being an exploitable mess like 64 Melee and Brawl

[@ethicc168]

Next time can you please put a question mark instead of a black-outed characters. I instantly recognized all the characters and knew what was to come. Thank you!

[@tilokas007]

9:34 maibe they whould be like pokemon trainer but one of them jumps from the back groud and the other goes to the backgroud

[@sirmel11]

7:04 You said Minin uncorrectly.

[@SuperDavidBrothers]

I'm surprised you didn't talk about Nintendog man. Also, I'm not sad because eventually these characters got into future Smash games like Ridley, Pac-Man, Villager, the Miis, Geno as a Mii, and that's it basically. I wonder why Sakurai didn't think that those particular characters I just mentioned would be a perfect fit for Smash even though they got into the series in the next couple of games (this being both Smash 4 and Ultimate).

[@INFERNO95]

He change his mind.

[@petej7002]

I wanted krystal so bad. But im at peace knowing she was deeply considered. A lot of players still want her but i think that ship has sailed. Starfox adventures was almost 20 years ago.

[@UltraNurture]

I wish we actually did get Plusle and Minun. It would've been interesting to see what the moveset would be their