Why Commercial EVs Are Catching On Faster Than Electric Cars - AAH 612

[@markday5797]

I see school busses the perfect EV. They are at the bus barn overnight, charging overnight can be heated on the interior or cooled and ready for the morning run. Then recharged and ready for the afternoon. No more diesel exhaust Perfect.

[@fjalics]

And for that last 5%, they just charge at a pull through charger for towing pickups or box trucks, or if you are headed to a school, charge there.

[@craigrobinson1234567]

Did you see the internet being great for email?

[@jons_collectibles_13]

I work in the same commercial complex as Lion Electric and man I nerd out over what they have in their yard! Cool stuff coming out of Sacramento California

[@tedg1609]

I love that these guys are set up to succeed in the modern EV marketplace. Everyone who fails to learn like they have will soon be unemployed.

[@issaclarke3449]

I have always hated seeing kids line up outside the schools breathing diesel fumes. I would prioritize this ahead of electric cars.

[@TecnamTwin]

I’ve never understood why school busses haven’t been electric for decades. They don’t drive extreme distances and have a very predictable operation pattern making them the perfect use case for an EV. A bunch of cheap, deep cycle lead acid batteries and an off-the-shelf electric motor and controller would make an affordable conversion kit for existing busses and Thomas should be able to make them factory electric easily as well. If they’re significantly more expensive than the fossils, somebody is lying and trying to rip off their buyers. Expensive batteries and a high end motor aren’t needed in this application as cost of purchase needs to be at or near parity with a diesel or gas bus to fit the typical school’s restrictive budget.

[@Gcanno]

@@TecnamTwin Same With The Postal Vehicles.

[@craigarnold1212]

Great to see them moving towards EV midrange work trucks. It is a good time for this range of battery and performance of engines. There have been few advancements in this area in the past 20 years and electric can easily be an equal. I expect more refined bodies in the future that can add aero and new light weight tech that can add safety and range.

[@wernerengel4919]

The enthusiasm of your panel John for electric is infectious.

[@sb5633]

These school buses, which are now being converted to electric, have another big, crucial advantage - and I hope the people you met know this, and if not, please let them hear it from me: these buses are batteries on wheels. They're needed in the morning and in the afternoon because they're driving the kids, but they're sitting around during the day and at night. They are batteries on wheels and as such energy storage they can stabilize the grid! That is, in the event of a blackout, the buses connected to the grid can immediately step in and provide grid stability. I hope you'll consider this idea, because there are hundreds of thousands of buses across America and they can be extremely useful to the grid as storage that kicks in in seconds when there's a blackout, unlike diesel generators that take a long time to start up. I hope you're building all this into it, you don't want to miss this opportunity! This would be a breakthrough and Win:Win for all!

[@kkarllwt]

Thank you. that was a good presentation.

[@davidmccarthy6061]

Exactly. The beachhead method will accelerate the growth.

[@peteregan3862]

In a few years, when charging is under control, I expect the commercial road transport sector will be talking about climate change in the past tense in that their move to superior vehicles will have them ahead of targets for reduction of CO2 and other pollutants. Of course, the price of diesel will drop through the floor as demand drops, but the oil refineries have not invested to produce greater fractions of other stuff. These days, old tyre rubber and natural gas can be combined to produce plastic, so oil refineries will need new investment to do a lot more recycling.

[@joeking433]

I think it's a no brainer that commercial vehicles would be the early adopters of EV's. It's cheaper to fuel, it's cheaper to maintain, and it is more powerful.

[@craigrobinson1234567]

How many fiestas does ford sell Vs transits?

[@JohnPMiller]

It's great to have guests today that you can invite back in ten years.

[@brucec954]

EV trucks will be great in metro areas with their high torque at low rpm = faster acceleration. See all the time where slowly accelerating truck causse everyone behind them to try and merge over causing chaos, accidents, and congestion.

[@robert5008]

Love the show guys. Looking forward to follow up shows in this market.

[@alexmckenna1171]

Once the company accountant does the figures - you have to go electric. No argument. The Tesla Semi will prove you don't need diesel at any price..

[@billcichoke2534]

Once the vehicle pool manager sees the issues these things create that didn't exist before, AVOIDING these battery powered losers is the no-brainer.

[@gmv0553]

Nikola is already proving that! Tesla is late to the game!

[@careykuhn9174]

Tesla semi good for local work only!

[@davidmccarthy6061]

@@billcichoke2534 Like the zero-to low maintenance and massive fuel savings?

[@kylekleman]

@@billcichoke2534 the only problem the accountants will have is finding places to store the money they saved!

[@mec7568]

Regenerative braking is where electric school busses (or garbage trucks) will really earn their keep. Imagine the savings in brake pads/linings alone.

[@chrisbraid2907]

Not to forget the charging is shortened by regen, let’s see a Diesel or Petrol engine fill the tank by stopping the Truck … it’s about the saving as well as all the other benefits. Any Farm with a decent solar array could easily convert and use their power with maybe Wind or Diesel backup for the dark days …

[@mangos2888]

Our schools are losing funding all the time. No one wants to fund them or the school busses. How are our schools & bus companies supposed to fund this? My purple state had a budget surplus (thanks to democrats), & Republicans threatened to revolt if any of that surplus went to schools, infrastructure, or anything but a refund to individuals. If my state officials support dollar-to-dollar match to federal funds, Republicans threaten to take control and roll anything & everything back. They just don't see or care about this stuff. We could never get this (e-school busses). I suspect a lot of states, especially red states, could never get this.

[@MM-sf3rl]

South America is “going this way” too.

[@JoePolaris]

Great segment John and Team! What strikes me in the design of commercial shown, the chassis could support more battery capacity with EV purpose built. The frames are straight from diesel design , what if it would become wider between drive trains? Add another 100miles of range ?

[@JoseFernandez-mn6qt]

This was a fantastic conversation. The future is very interesante!

[@cgamiga]

So glad to see the same excitement & enjoyment coming in the "work truck" world, both these guys and hearing about the customers/drivers, that we EV owners enjoy daily from our cars! Keep it up and keep accelerating! Regen braking is a wonder to experience... realizing that on the scale of a class8 truck, :) big grins! .. oh, and it will save kids' lungs from diesel buses, and clean air in communities near ports & heavy trucking areas, and reduce engine compression braking noise down hills, and... maybe the planet, too!

[@keyboard49]

I have always thought that electric motors made a lot of sense for commercial vehicles. That is probably the biggest growth area for electric vehicles.

[@ranig2848]

Wow! I was bullish on EVs, but though heavy duty will take longer. The more I see the more I realize that in 3-5 years, no company (maybe with the exception of few few super long haul route company) will even consider buying a new gas/diesel. It’s all about the long term economics. Now everyone (especially in the automotive industry) knows EV is not just the future, it’s here, and it’s a race to increase volume. The only company which is left behind is Toyota which even in the last couple of days has shown doubts about the transition. They’re going to be in some really big pain in the next 5-10 years…

[@mundoracer]

Any conversion kits for fleets to convert their existing fleet of trucks and buses?

[@rp9674]

Seems like it would be more practical than passenger car conversion

[@MarkLLawrence]

They certainly have enough space to do conversions, it would give them a second life.

[@Paul-cj1wb]

What architecture are these? 800 volts? 1,200 volts?

[@thegreeneyej]

Heck yeah, once enough e-transits get out there, Plumbing trucks, grocery delivery , Total cost of ownership will be the riptide of change.

[@jamiepatterson1214]

Rural areas do travel two or more hours for field trips or for school activities, such as sports. How many rural school districts can afford the necessary expenses on a fleet of busses when batteries have to be replaced? How well will these busses hold up in below zero temps? What about software, how reliable is it? There's already two videos on KZbin about two Hummers experiencing software issues. With commercial trucks, how long does it take to recharge? Dump trucks can't sit for an extended period recharging when the contractor has a time frame to complete a job. Or the semi has a set amount of time to go from point A to point B.

[@Woburn-RoxburyMedia]

And with the continuing falling price of Photovoltaic Cells & Battery Storage Power, couldn't the Bus Barn's Fleet's integrate arrays of Solar to power buses as well as other Fleet Vehicles ?

[@KJSvitko]

The future is electric. It is just better.

[@Hildepedia]

Great interview and comments so far. The general negativity towards electrification Is exhausting Everyone wants to throw in worse case scenarios and imply the whole idea sucks Even these guys deal with “well what about field trips…” NO electric isn’t the answer to everything. But don’t tell me 100% of use cases is 1,000 miles towing uphill both ways. Why is the seeming vast majority of people so blind to the many applications that clearly DO make sense. Electrification won’t happen over night and we may always need fossil fuels for some applications. Thanks for this coverage and perspective

[@kitgerhart8749]

Where are the motors? Are they under the hood with drive shafts as with diesel trucks?

[@matthewholzmueller6292]

Mounts directly to the diff, in the very back pointing forward

[@Justacogg]

Generally on trucks that might be a single axle tractor for example, the electric motors are located on the axles, exposed to road salt and every other undesirable contamination.

[@bartismoellis1052]

The biggest problem with fleet buyers is if you have 50 school busses that need to charge over night there is no way that is possible without major infrastructure. Is the bus barn going to have a nuke plant behind it?

[@Agent77X]

Look at Germany now, U.S. will be in the same position if Navistar and others convert middle and heavy duty trucks into battery power vehicles. U.S. needs to keep nuclear and natural gas power plant running into the foreseeable future.

[@chrisperry3525]

Business is an easy sell on anything that saves money or increases utility/up time. Personally I'm saving $150/month with only 1000 miles a month on my Y vs my Outback. Commercially they'll drive 2-3X that t - 100 miles a day..2000 a month). so that can save a TON of money, and lower maintenance ($0 in a year with the Y) it's a no-brainer from an economic perspective, even if the up front cost is higher.

[@chrisperry3525]

100% agree...what i'd like to know is HOW to supply that power? I drove school bus and with 15, 20 buses in the lot..that's a LOT of power (outlets and amps at one time). Not insurmountable but if you had to charge 15, 20 model Y's at your house you'd have to seriously upgrade the entire elec system!

[@gordonborsboom7460]

This should/could be more widespread already if more customers were ready to put money down. Heavy duty vehicles with more space in the bodywork for batteries. Perfect match in many ways

[@deejay4922]

Just the background noise pollution alone should be enough to convince naysayers into the electric camp.

[@phatmeow7764]

for mid/heavy duty no way is a BEV feasible because as we know under full load your range is gonna get savaged! makers like Hyliion is showing the way with a hybrid natural gas range extender/generator and electric motors/battery system? In fact after the Ford F150 Lightning "camp trip" and under load real word testing many are wondering why Hyliion's approach could not trickle down even for light duty trucks/vans...

[@MarkLLawrence]

I would love to get one of those school busses not tuned down.

[@rp9674]

It would be nice to not have to roll my windows up around trucks. Who would have known that our future is bodybuilders on skateboards, who.

[@Justacogg]

One of the few benefits, but it is a benefit. After 2019 the big rigs they’re almost 70% cleaner than yours prior.

[@JOHNKESSLER88]

Just wait till the whole bus fleet catches on fire while charging.One city already got rid of their electric bus fleet after an incident,those were city versions imagine a bus full of kids burning down to the rims.

[@benjaminbobadilla9379]

It makes sense if it's a fleet vehicles. But for independent contractors. Long haul it's not. You can't go 800 miles on a charge. Plus to charge the vehicle it's to time consuming

[@charlesrovira5707]

@28:00 This was a great point. Electric does not fit _every_ use case. Just 95+% of them. We will still _need_ diesel. (The EV OEMs. will reduce to 5-% to less and less.) What I like about trucking is that it is _regulated._ If you can convince the regulators that diesel is your *_only_* option and make your business case for it, they are *_paid_* to listen ... by the people they regulate!

[@PistonAvatarGuy]

Diesel? Natural gas is better than diesel in almost every heavy vehicle application, and gasoline is a better alternative in every light vehicle application.

[@mikldude9376]

95 % might be overstating electric capability mate , it has its use case for sure , but once you start pulling heavy with lots of axles and more resource sucking features required , ev starts to look much less good.

[@charlesrovira5707]

@@mikldude9376 Funny, the guys being interviewed were adamant about how that was the *_exact opposite._* The truck/bus drivers _liked_ EV trucks.

[@usa1mac]

The Infrastructure Act (the green pork piece) and the "Inflation Reduction Act" (all green pork) are complete jokes -- pork to "solve" a problem that does not exist. Mass insanity.

[@sambale9527]

Love evs

[@pepeshopping]

You will not be laughing or celebrating much as the materials for batteries keep getting more expensive!

[@robertn2951]

Has oil gotten cheaper these last 15 years ?

[@nick0126]

Can't believe you never got to it, but EV school buses will have a significant lowering of the center of gravity and will have to make a school bus rollover more difficult. If you have ever seen a school bus rollover, especially as they have no seatbelts, it can he a horror.

[@QuietStormX]

What GM is doing now

[@baxrok2.]

"...we're building the next generation of classics here.." Dream on.

[@StarCitizenSpeakeasy]

im surprised no one mentioned pollution. guess that's a trigger word now? can't see it, must not exits. so sad.

[@BeingMe23]

#Backtothefuture #EV #Trucks

[@mrhickman53]

Bet they're going to say economics...

[@williamharding9753]

There was no talk about autonomy in the trucks and all the truck drivers losing their jobs

[@QuietStormX]

Weight goes up less range

[@MichelDerome]

They aloud for more weight for electricity trucks same for VE..So it is already taking care off for the maximum weight. Once 1MWhr charger are installed in sufficient numbers recharge will almost not be an obstacles for adoption. Grid provider are going to make more money and hire more workers for installation and maintenance. Local economy push is a win win.

[@mangos2888]

Don't commercial vehicles get tax write offs already?

[@QuietStormX]

Data captured $$$$$$$$$$$$

[@doneB830]

We here in Australia first need to move from coal in such a way that it doesn’t destroy the whole economy, up until then this truck is no advancement from a steam engine.

[@nguyep4]

Very short-sighted mindset. Company of different sectors and fields should not focus on multiple fronts until one solves this one issue, coal power plant? Any incremental improvement is not worth the time?

[@alexmckenna1171]

Australia is blessed with more energy from the sun than any place on Earth...

[@MichelDerome]

Its don't take rocket scientist for working on coal it is the same for installing solar panels and both are good for the economic as you need to install battery 🔋 for grid stability instead of peaker plans. The more the money will be directed towards the grid infrastructure the more it will be better for local economy.

[@QuietStormX]

Info too.... $$$$$$$$$$$$

[@tnickknight]

Its called the "inflation reduction act" not supposed bill ,. The fact if it does or not do what it claims is irrelevant, it's still the bills name. Is this a supposed interview.

[@clittle1559]

the amount of refined materials will be detrimental #batterys and electric motors DO need maintenance and it's expensive ! #mpg in fuel as mpc electric is 75%further distance #to move a large amount of weight uses fuel if its gas, diesel ,natural gas,nuclear or coal EV don't charge for free. Ev mass transit is great for short distance after they make different batterys then lithium ion that don't burn the bus to the ground. gas and diesel transportation will always exist if you want to limit your drive to 250 miles help yourself but it's in no way cheaper and less pollution then fossil fuels fossil fuels charges your ev's

[@BeingMe23]

From 1836 to the about 1920s the EV and Steam were the main power source. So we move back to EV. Those whom stand still. Will forever miss the future.

[@mangos2888]

None of these guys drive EV on their personal lives? Obviously they aren't THAT excited for electric!

[@Justacogg]

For over a decade I’ve enjoyed auto line. I’ve even enjoyed seeing your son Mr. McElroy join the show. But this push to battery electrics is so misguided at the current state of technology that I just had to say something. I keep hearing the word zero emissions and it’s nauseating! You’re merely shifting the tail pipe emissions to somewhere else. And with each transfer of the energy “Weather” it be from the power plant down the lines and then eventually to a battery with each transfer there’s a loss along the way!! Then you have to figure safety. What happens when a school bus gets T boned and that giant battery underneath goes off like a Samsung phone with thermal runaway? It’s going to look like a giant Roman candle with children inside. Electrics are great up until the point you come to the power source and the batteries. It is my thought that the pause button be pushed and regulations put off until the technology can keep up. In Southern California at the time I’m writing this there are rolling brownouts and even blackouts. Tell me how am I supposed to charge a model S when there’s no power? And the utility bills are creeping up faster and faster! To think that suddenly driving an electric vehicle is going to make any significant difference in the temperature of the planet is pure fantasy! Excluding old diesels, new ICE engines vehicles have cleaned up their act so much that if you wanted to commit suicide by parking your car in the garage and letting it run, it would most likely run out of fuel first! How are the lower and middle class supposed to be able to afford 50 or 60 or $70,000 cars even with a $7500 rebate that is paid for by the poor who can’t afford to buy those cars?! I think it’s time to stop with the radical liberal agenda and all these crazy high bills that are being passed and the billions and trillions that is pushing inflation so high in our country. I say stop crushing traditional energy bring the prices back down so people can afford it and then maybe this country could invest in green energy without going further into bankruptcy! Does anyone remember the tale of “the kings new clothes”? This is exactly what battery electrics are right now! And everyone buying into it at this point are the kings/queens that are truly naked! The green agenda is fully corrupt by politicians calling each trillion dollar bill a very pleasant name and padding their pockets in the process! Even Elon Musk is saying we need to keep traditional energy around long enough until the alternative energy clean renewables can catch up to power his vehicles!!!! And this is truly the Einstein of our day! I could not agree with my Mr. musk enough on that point!

[@lp6696]

I hope it's ok I respond to a few comments above with my own observations. With respect to emissions a phase is used “well-to-wheel car emissions” and depending on the region you are located in it will be a different reduction in tailpipe emissions. For example, a Chevy Bolt has a reduction of (120/410) or 70% using a mix of the US power generation grid. An online calculator allows you to enter your zip code to see the reduction in your region based on your power grid makeup. www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?year=2022&vehicleId=43955&zipCode=55436&action=bt3 If you look at CO2 sources across the world passenger vehicles are a small piece of the puzzle so the above reduction is a great example but if progress is not made in other areas it's not going to matter a whole lot. From the below source its about 11% worldwide ( 0.24 * 0.45 = 11%). Trucks are a smaller percent then passenger cars (0.24 * 29.4 = 7%). ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-transport I expect a number of different sources can be found with different ratios but not too far different. With respect to fires, new battery chemistry may help but the fire departments are having a hard time just putting out a small number of Tesla or Bolt fires it takes a large amount of water and time. I read one report a “dunk tank” was used on a Tesla. Large trucks and buses are only worse. This could be a real issue when more EVs are on the Road. I think EVs are a good thing as power generation moves to renewables, batteries get better for storing energy it's going to help.

[@flodjod]

one of your best shows