Why Did Men Stop Wearing White Tie (Formal Tailcoats)?

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00:00 Men Stopped Wearing White Tie Introduction
White Tie was once a mandatory dress code for certain social classes on certain occasions. Nowadays seems like period shows like Downton Abbey, Peaky Blinders, Boardwalk Empire, the Vienna Opera Ball, and a few other high society events are the only places you see White Tie anymore.
01:30 History of White Tie
White Tie evolved during periods of strict social and class regimentation. People of certain classes identified by how they dressed and knew what to wear and when. Traditionally clothes were changed to differentiate day from evening clothes with special emphasis on dinner clothes.
05:10 8 Factors: 1. Historic Silhouette
06:42 2. White Tie is Restrictive
09:13 3. It’s a (Literally) Restrictive Dress Code
11:03 4. White Tie I s Hard To Put On Without Help!
13:06 5. White Tie Is Considered To Be Classist
15:28 6. White Tie Requires Proper Tailoring
17:41 7. There are Few Occasions to Wear It
19:37 8. The Rise of Black Tie
White Tie may no longer be de rigueur for dinnertime but despite its decline in popularity, it is an enchanting and unique dress code. When you have the opportunity to wear it, we hope you seize it because it really is a special experience.
22:20 Outfit Rundown

[@dantegreco8159]

On the day of my wedding to my future wife, I'm going to wear full morning dress to the ceremony and classic white tie to the reception. Having first heard of this idea from the famed Black Tie Guide, and having had the thought cemented in my mind by the wedding ensembles of the great Sven Raphael Schneider himself, I'm never going to look back on this idea. You guys are the best!

[@gordoncgregory]

I did. Well morning dress to the ceremony and lunch then white tie to the ball.

[@therealgigglebop]

I did it! So perfect for the wedding day!

[@branislavjeriga6762]

It is quite common to get married in white tie in Swden

[@felixguseck1892]

Living in Vienna I can tell you: White Tie never got extinct here. On the contrary. It seems to me as if Viennese Balls are getting more and more popular again (not only the Opera Ball). Might be we are living on an island of the blessed though. Love the video! ;-)

[@bourgeoise2]

I will be attending my first Opera Ball in Vienna next February. I am having a white tie set made bespoke, and am very excited.

[@ianfrearson2261]

I’m sure someone has mentioned this, but Mardi Gras balls are often strict white-tie affairs, depending on the krewe. I was invited to one when I was young, and it was incredible to be amongst so many others wearing tailcoats and ball gowns. It’s the only time I’ve ever gotten to wear white tie, and a precious memory for me.

[@janerkenbrack3373]

As usual, Raphael's explanation for the decline of white tie is much better than what I came up with. I remember watching TV reruns of old Hollywood movies, and everyone from Fred Astaire to Gary Cooper were in white tie at the nightclubs.

[@carltrotter7622]

Absolutely! I only wish that there were still fancy clubs where you could listen to jazz, etc. and dress up a bit - at least put on a tie.

[@zaco-km3su]

Essentially there was no less formal alternative...unless you wanted to use a "lounge suit" or what we call today a business suit. After that black tie came in.

[@brendonclarke512]

I absolutely love White Tie I wear mine every chance I get. I love dressing up in general but White Tie will always be my favorite.

[@kusp0r]

This is a beautifully timed video, as I recently finished putting together my white tie ensemble. I especially love it, because the tailcoat is antique from 1910 and the trousers are made bespoke in a matching fabric.

[@ashtondimovski7074]

To say the truth, I wear my tails more often then I do my tuxedos. In all fairness, classic mens style these days is so blurred that whether you’re in a set of tails or dinner jacket, people are just going to call it a “tux” so it really doesn’t matter which one you wear. Whichever you like the best between white tie and black tie at that given moment is what you wear. The beauty of both outfits is that they are so simple when executed correctly that they end up complimenting each other. So one of my closest friends wore his midnight blue tuxedo out to a party, and I wore my tails, and with our dates, we all looked classy together. People in general loved them look, and by far, we were the best dressed people there, as most were in some business suit variant. We were out on the dance floor, having fun, but I noticed a mural acquaintance of ours. Regrettably the guy showed up in black jeans and a white polyester short sleeve “dress” shirt, and you could tell, he looked and felt out of place. So after a break I went up and chatted with him. Turns out he wanted to learn how to dress better, but didn’t know where to begin. So he tentatively asked “where did you get your suit?” And from there, I was able to direct him to the Gazette, RMRS and a few other resources. His style game has improved dramatically. No more polyester for him - I just saw him in his first tuxedo the other week. The man could be James Bond now.

[@pohjanmies5516]

In Finland white tie is still in use especially in academic events and other formal events such as independence day celebration in Presidential Palace

[@tubekulose]

There are nearly 100 annual balls in Vienna during the ball season (the Opera Ball might be the most famous one internationally but it is actually one of the less elegant ones). When I was a young guy in the 90s, I was lucky to open dozens of balls under the choreographies of my dancing school and I also visited plenty of them as a regular guest. At most of them I used to wear my own (thanks to my parents (RIP) for buying it for me!) white tie ensemble, which I was extremely fond and proud of. I haven't been to a ball for a long time now but kept wearing my tails at least on every New Year's Eve since then, until my waistband... began to... shrink, I guess... 😁😁😁. Anyways, a well tailored tailcoat is clearly something really special to wear - in the best sense of the word. Danke für das schöne Video und meine besten Grüße aus Wien!

[@rdr2v1nce7]

Bälle und Opern sind zwar nichts für mich, aber ich mag solche edlen outfis.

[@tubekulose]

​@@rdr2v1nce7 Mittlerweile bin ich auch nicht mehr so darauf versessen. Ich bin sowohl etwas tanz-(Bälle) als auch sitz-(Opern)faul geworden. Auf überteuerte Getränke und Rauchverbote kann ich ebenfalls gut verzichten. Und da die Räumlichkeiten auch noch besonders damengerecht beheizt sind, entwickelt Mann bereits innerhalb weniger Minuten sein eigenes Mikro-Tropenklima unter dem Brustpanzer. 😁 Aber die Optik ist nach wie vor top! 👍

[@rdr2v1nce7]

@@tubekulose 👍

[@themoderndandy713]

I still wear my white tie ensemble rather frequently - to the opera and ballet, for special ballroom dance events at my dance hall, occasionally to an art deco speakeasy, on my birthday, and even to many black tie events as a bit of rebellion against the notion of women being able to dress flamboyantly and shine but men having to hide in the shadows.

[@viclucyzia]

This was good. I suppose through so much practice you prepare and put on your ensemble quite easily. I would love to try it someday but first I'm looking for a black tie ensemble as a starter I suppose.

[@piccalillipit9211]

*THE BUTTONS HAVE A STRUCTURAL PURPOSE* at each button point you have 4 pieces of cloth joining - you also have the tails meeting giving you the weakest part of the coat where it might split. SO you can sew the 4 holes of the button through each of the 4 pieces of cloth to bind them together and on the inside have a piece of tape holding the left and right halves of the coat together to prevent ripping the back seam.

[@G1NZOU]

That's honestly genius, make a stylistic feature of a vital internal structural element instead of having odd looking patches.

[@piccalillipit9211]

@@G1NZOU - Im always amazed how clever people were int he past - we really do underestimate them.

[@AttilatheMike]

I will be wearing White Tie to my wedding in a month’s time! Can’t wait

[@lolvonlolipopp]

There is nothing more elegant!

[@truthreigns7]

I appreciate all you do as you share all this marvelous information. In addition, you do not just plaster the audience with information in a boring manner, but you use your creative skills, and all the resources at your disposal in order to make the video be interesting, and enjoyable.

[@zombieslayer7759]

I think when I get married to my gf within the next couple of years, I'll wear a white tie outfit to our wedding. I love the look of the evening tailcoat, top hat, white bow tie, etc.

[@MarcelGomesPan]

I have worn white tie at least 4 times. In most cases because of lodge membership ( not uncommon in Scandinavia ) and in one case because i was at a burleque club with a 1920’s theme. As a lodge member i wear it with a black waist coat ( as do the others ). It is part of the dress code. I now own my white tie ensemble. A vintage one. 🎩

[@jobmclaren4150]

Man I have been waiting for this video!!! Thank you so much

[@kennethjohnson6141]

Spectacular video and extremely informative. Thank you Sven

[@thegentlemansstyle]

Incredible video gents. You never disappoint

[@kochi3accordion]

thanks to your white tie guide i found a great vintage tailcoat and wore it today to my debut at the vienna opera house. thank you raphael and gentlemans gazette for helping look my best for this big day

[@piccalillipit9211]

*IM LITERALLY* about to start tailoring a 1900 pattern dress / tail coat. I had a practice with a frock coat - OH MY GOD I know why they went out of favour - 100 hours work...!! And I cheated and made it in tweed so imperfections would not show - but they did have tweed frock coats, so not a total cheat. Anyway, 100 hours for a coat - that's why men stopped wearing them. $$$

[@G1NZOU]

True, though at least the benefit of white tie is the style of them and cut hasn't really changed much, so while it's expensive to craft you can keep it for decades instead of it needing to be replaced cause the fad fashion changed. It's a real shame though that the art of tailoring is lost on the general population and fast fashion is king, sweatshops and exploitative labour practices won't be fixed unless people realise their £2 Primark t-shirt isn't a good purchase.

[@piccalillipit9211]

@@G1NZOU - I agree - its sad. Its also destroying the planet and we need to stop it.

[@flamenice3055]

I actually been investing in buying a vintage white tie ensemble. I bought a vintage top hat (which I ultimately love), a vintage tailcoat and pants, and a vintage backless vest so far. Am looking forward to complete the look in the future

[@Nathan_Wright]

I also own a white tie ensemble and several black tie ensembles. I, unfortunately, hardly ever get to wear white tie, but I do wear my black tie ensembles very often. I love my tuxedos and recently got an evening overcoat of my own to pair perfectly with them. It’s double breasted and was made in 1935.

[@kwantungempire3767]

Here in Pamplona is required for the Mayor and the city council to wear a white tie at the important ceremonies of the city. No other city in Spain does that.

[@joshuaspencer1346]

"If you ever have the Opera-tunity to wear it, seize it!" Good pun, Raphael!

[@mortenjrgensen1795]

Even in our society where individuality is apparently so crucial, people will still look at you strangely if you, for example goes with a hat. Therefore, I am afraid that we have gotten to a place in our society where people will look down on us, who want to endure the classic meanswear style .... I feel it especially here in Denmark, where I have been accosted several times because people think I dressed too nicely. But of course that's not enough to stop me from wearing the cloth I want!

[@oscarosullivan4513]

It says a lot when you feel dressed up among a sea of lycra but your wearing mid 20th century casual T shirt or a polo shirt, more classic cut jeans and deck shoes with a 1960’s style mechanical divers watch.

[@Stravinsky14]

Thank you so much for such a brilliant explanation - really interesting and inspiring- Now off to buy some tails! 👍

[@lucaelshout2594]

We have missed you Sven Raphael! Glad to see you back again😁

[@rz9305]

I’m thoroughly enjoying this I just want to commend you gentlemen on putting this all together. Thank you for reaching back to the past to bring it to the present moment now.❤

[@toonsoffun5733]

The emperor of Japan has an amazing white tie ensemble.

[@victorchristy1706]

When I go to an opera, I was the only man to show up in white tie and tails. The rest was suits, tuxedos, and casual attire. I will never understand why. But, I was fortunate to wear it.

[@danimal722]

White Tie is still very common in Freemasonry in Australia and New Zealand for installations (installing a new Master in a Lodge) Grand Installations and Grand Banquets. Compulsory evening dress code for Grand Lodge Officers and optional for every other Freemason. Black Tie is also quite common especially for dining lodges. Overall in New Zealand apart from Freemasons the only place you'll find White Tie are orchestras like the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra and the Auckland Philharmonia Orchestra, or at the opera or ballroom dancing. State Dinners/Banquets in New Zealand, even with the sovereign present, are usually Black Tie or Lounge Suits so quite informal unlike State Banquets in the United Kingdom.

[@karldelavigne8134]

When I was at university, a dinner invitation that said "informal dress" meant black tie. Formal dress was white tie.

[@badgasaurus4211]

Should have read “semi-formal”. Informal = lounge suits in my experience

[@TRocksGarage777]

Great video, would love to get dressed to the nines. You had many strong points why men stopped wearing formal. But, you left out a very strong point why this is occured. Basically the way that I look at it is that society degraded immensely since the 30's and 40's. What once was right and good is now wrong and bad, what is wrong is now good. This decline in humanity has been happening since I've been alive, born in the early 60's. Noticed a really downward spirial really happening in the last 30 years. There are only a hand full of us guys that refuse to give in to todays standards and im one of them. I really enjoy your videos and think they are very informative about mens clothing. I got the opportunity to wear a full white tie and tails outfit at the 2020 new years party in Tampa where it was mandatory that a man would wear some form of a tux, was a night i'll never forget. Keep making these great video's, I think they are great entainment.

[@bigbademperor]

Had the opportunity to wear and commission both Morning Dress and White Tie and I can say the feeling is way different from wearing any other suit!

[@jetsons101]

Funny: I made my comment before the end of the vid and you brought up World War One and Two, very very impressive..... Whenever I watch one on your vids, I wish I lived in London. Thanks again for your time and work.

[@king_charles]

please make more videos about white tie!

[@andreleverettejr3747]

If I ever have the free finances or if I am getting married with a wedding this time (first one no wedding) I would definitely wear white tie and the grooms men in black tie, it's something I would like actually

[@TheLycan238]

100% agree

[@DownUnder_Auto_Detailing]

If these GG events start, I really hope they can expand beyond the US. I'd love to have a GG event like that here in Australia

[@3m1lw1k2]

Interesting video. In my country a lot of university students own and use white tie at different kinds of events and they are often quite young.

[@Napoleonvanderbilt]

Even as a teenager surrounded by those who think wearing a suit is only for snobs, I wait for the day where it would be appropriate to wear a tailcoat. I think its a big shame that it has faded, because the core reason of it still stands today, if not more prominentley. Focus on the people, not what they are wearing.

[@jazzrockr]

For many of us who use wheelchairs, tailcoats, or anything that is longer than a flight jacket or field jacket, just isn't practical and is nearly guaranteed to get caught in a wheel (or be even harder to change in/out of).

[@DownUnder_Auto_Detailing]

I agree man. currently on the look out for my white tie ensemble. I am wearing it to my wedding, as my girlfriend wants a princess wedding dress. Only white-tie would look appropriate next to her, none else!

[@sheevinopalpatino4782]

Just wear white tie, mate. Don't be concerned with other people's impressions of you. They are dazzled and deluded by appearances.

[@Napoleonvanderbilt]

@@sheevinopalpatino4782 The only time I’ve been in an environment where I could have worn white tie was at a Michelin starred, where there were conflicting dress codes, the email said Black Tie optional and the website said Black Tie required. But it turned out to be far too difficult to find a full set of what tie attire. I still wear what I like to in public, even though many think it’s weird or “stuck up” but I’m waiting for the right occasion for White Tie, likely a relatives wedding.

[@djb9189]

May the odds be ever in your favor.

[@christianpereira3686]

Sven I’ve been following your KZbin for years and I just now found out your also in Minnesota!

[@Manuel421]

Because as you briefly mentioned the world has become very casual noways just my honest opinion although perhaps in certain areas it may of course be different. Sadly I never get the chance anymore to wear my Dark striped suit that still sits in my closet but I have purchased a few casual blazers for informal occasions which will highly likely get more use. Anyway thanks for the video as always!

[@wotajared]

Uppsala, Sweden in 2022 has meant that some academic and institutional celebrations underwent in close succession and this last weekend wore a white tie (evening) ensemble to a ball in the castle. It seems an artifact, as evening white tie is more frequent and appropriate than black tie in our setting. Still have 3 events left in this calendar year that have White tie frack dresscode!

[@Benjamin_Kraft]

In Sweden's University cities like Uppsala and Lund white tie still lives on in formal occasions related to the universities, such as academic balls (and I think it's similar in Finland), meaning young people are actually the ones who wear white tie predominantly here. It also stays a bit in the public consciousness with the help of the Nobel banquet every year. Over here you would however never see anyone with pumps (only laquered shoes/patent leather), it's very very rare with detachable collars, and I've never seen a top hat either, maybe because the events I've been to are related to academia and we have special student-hats instead. Also I think it's most common with single stripe here on the trousers, and vests are almost universally single-breasted. Though there are some understandable reasons as to why white tie has been eschewed for other more casual wear, I feel it's a bit sad if it was wholly replaced with black tie or even more casual wear completely. As it stands now the retention of white tie evening wear in academia is becoming a Swedish (scandinavian?) tradition, and it'd be sad to see it go. Would love for it to be more common, even outside of university related occasions, but sadly proper events for it hardly exists, balls and galas are just not a thing in these modern days. But I do get to wear white tie from time to time. I usually attend the spring ball at Uppsala Castle every Walpurgis night. It's a ball arranged by the choir Allmänna Sången every year. It consists of a three course formal dinner, accompanied with singing from the choir and singing from the attending guests as well, which is then followed by dancing to live a band, which mostly plays swing music, late into the night. It's one of the best evenings of the year and I always look forward to donning my white tie and adding or improving details on it. Hoping to have a gold pocket watch for next year to match my cuff links!

[@tj-co9go]

Yes, you are correct, as a Finnish person, it does still stay, at organisations' annual balls or student promotions. Yes there is a three course meal with songs, known as sitsit. In general it is pretty rare otherwise, restricted to maybe weddings or galas. One big thing is the Linnan juhlat ie the presidential reception every Independence Day

[@tj-co9go]

Swedish and Finnish academic traditions are pretty similar, almost the same in many things

[@HunterPhenomMakoy]

OMG you killed me with the baguette shoes. 😂

[@edmundsmith3943]

Please do a video on academic dress such as the "sub fusc" worn at Oxford university

[@giuglianimaiaviani-jn6zs]

I completely agree with that. I love the past very beautiful

[@Hondo0101]

we should bring it back

[@PopExtra]

I love the white tie, i not only have a tailcoat white tie, but also one with pointed ends and roses on it :)

[@Lensmaster1]

For my whotevtoe outfit I had to find the main pieces used on Ebay, for sourcing and price. I have nevervyet been to a white tie event, but I wear it every year on New Years Eve, even though at the places I go many men don't even wear suits. I wear it for myself to feel festive.

[@markknister6272]

Enjoyed the journey. I have a tux (I’m 73); but not white tie.

[@LlyleHunter]

I know of a few private clubs where there are several events per year that specify White Tie as opposed to Formal in the member’s invitations.

[@eddiealva4453]

Looking good!

[@pedrogarciarobleto]

I just purchased my first tuxedo last year. I used an office party at a hotel as an excuse to purchase it. Here in Nicaragua, Central America, it's really rare for men to wear these kind of clothes; usually tuxes get reserved only for weddings of mid to high social class people. Nowadays I'm looking for any and all opportunities to wear it, I wore it at a New Year's Eve party and for Valentine's Dinner. Now I'm thinking about getting a white tie ensemble for my wedding any time in the future (maybe in the next 2 years?).

[@AllMenAreBerries]

I love it so much, so classic and timeless i would say then dated

[@Molach101]

If Raphael or Preston does decide to have a custom white tie ensemble made, or a vintage one altered, I'd actually appreciate a video on that. I'm not sure whether to go vintage with alterations or just invest in something bespoke because I like the way the tailcoats fit in the old pictures and B&W photographs

[@antonbroanda9771]

In Finland, white tie are worn quite often at student union annual dinners, and people are often invited to eachothers annual celebrations. white tie and your student union ribbons are worn on these occasions

[@lefthandedhemawithlordrami8220]

Actually White tie is still quite common in ballroom dance competition. Though the coat is slightly different in cut to accommodate the arms being up.

[@RouletteRog]

I inherited a set of tails last year and I've been trying to find an opportunity to wear it.

[@violin-schwerin]

it is still the work outfit of symphony orchestras in Europe, so I wear it regularly.

[@oscarosullivan4513]

Interesting

[@mikewingert-savagelyerudite]

White tie is still owned and worn in the UK.

[@doug6259]

Well researched history. I have never worn a white tie outfit. Since I am unlikely to receive an invitation to the coronation ceremony of King Charles III or the next Nobel prize ceremony, I don't anticipate needing one. I have worn black tie, but the last time was 29 years ago. A suit is the most formal I get, which I do wear several times per month.

[@leeratner8064]

On a more serious note, I'd like to try white tie once at least but the tail suit might look slightly funny on my short stocky body. The number one rule of fashion for short people is don't wear clothing that makes people's eyes look focus downward. The tail coat is something that definitely does that.

[@gentlemansgazette]

If the tailcoat fits you well, then it will be in proportion, and won't draw attention down. The devil is in the details!

[@bourgeoise2]

@@gentlemansgazette Do white tie sets camouflage unflattering parts of the body? I am having a white tie ensemble made bespoke but am really nervous about it because I have put on some weight in my belly area. I hope that the outfit will still come out nice. It's a special event and I want to look my best!

[@orthodoxtemplar7924]

I must adopt this drip ASAP😤😤⚠️⚠️⚠️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️🗣🗣🗣🗣

[@MrDanielWP]

Hear that in Eastern Europe, the legendary tripple galon is popular.

[@alanax9276]

I found the full set from 1948. The tailcoat pants and the waistcoat unfortunately black but it will still work. It had a perfect fitt aswhel. And now im going to a new year's party and dey said. "Dress a little bit nicer" so gues who's going all in.

[@Agrippa31BC]

Putting on a detaches letter collar isn’t too difficult once one is accustomed to it. I’ve learning that wearing a cassock everyday. Gotta wear a detachable collar everyday. I can put it on in under 20 seconds. Oh, and all the cassocks have to be bespoke…

[@davidleedutton]

Johnny Carson wore white tie and tails when he hosted the Oscars in the late 70s and early 80s, and he looked great.

[@danielgalil5020]

Points for mentioning Dandy Wellington.

[@aspinorl]

Please review the menswear in the movie "The Age of Innocence", 1993. Thanks.

[@stealthysam7761]

Could you do a video on country wear

[@FranzTraininand]

Seconded.

[@silverjohn6037]

Country as in English shooting tweeds or country as in Texas blazer?

[@stealthysam7761]

@@silverjohn6037 English shooting wear

[@FranzTraininand]

@@silverjohn6037 english shooting

[@dandiehm8414]

@@silverjohn6037 Tweeds I hope (although I know there is already a video on tweeds from them).

[@markbryant4954]

To attend a Carnival Ball here in Mobile, Alabama, men must wear White Tie -- or costume de rigueur as stated on the invitation. Those wearing dress military uniforms or a regular tuxedo are not allowed into the event.

[@joniz4718]

i have to wear this tomorrow lol

[@josemafabian5601]

En Europa si que usamos la corbata blanca... y en Japón también En las orquestas sinfónicas se sigue usando

[@msmlolmanpolybrige0335]

12:31 a tip for this, is to stick your finger behind the stop, so that you don't constantly hit your throat while putting the stud thru

[@Christusuniversorumrex]

Please make a video about classic hunting attire.

[@TheLycan238]

Kirby Alison recently did an entire series on this subject matter. Perhaps some nice viewing while awaiting GG to do likewise.

[@PunCala]

White tie is still used in Finnish disserations and dissertation parties.

[@JuanSanchezGuerra]

You forgot the Viennese Opera Ball in New York, and a few other high society events in America.

[@leeratner8064]

One of my dad's cousins married a woman who wanted a really fancy wedding that at least had the groom and his family in the white tie ensemble. This would be in the late 1960s and early 1970s. According to my dad, there was a lot of people controlling their laughter because it looked somewhat ridiculous that all these ordinary people would be wearing something so fancy.

[@Egilhelmson]

Just checked, and Hardy & Hayes website says that they are closed and redirects to a Jewelry Store society’s page. Annoying, as I remember their TV commercials (having grown up in the area).

[@vladchan]

You forgot to mentioned that the tail coat traces its roots to horseback riding. A tail coat and a top hat are still required attire in some competitions. As horseback riding used to be the domain of the aristocracy the outfit ended up being worn in other social situations.

[@johanneslindh3313]

Luckily Im a student in sweden and the nordic countries seems to be one of the last bastions of the white tie. December 10th is a perfect day to wear white tie and watch the Nobel prize cermony, any Where in the world

[@oscarosullivan4513]

It says a lot when you feel dressed up among a sea of lycra but your wearing mid 20th century casual T shirt or a polo shirt, more classic cut jeans and deck shoes with a 1960’s style mechanical divers watch.

[@FlameG102]

time is a flat circle, and so are trends. when ultracasual is the norm, formal will rise again. already you kind of see a fascination with it from younger folks, such as, yourselves, or myself, and even at work I spy a handful of people who are stylish and/or I can tell like classic men's fashion

[@dandiehm8414]

Lets hope.

[@timothytikker1147]

You mention how white tie dress can make one look like an orchestra conductor. Actually, orchestral musicians traditionally alternate between black tie and white dress codes, depending on the importance of the occasion -- and that's for all the players, not just the conductor. When I once had to substitute for the orchestra's organist in a performance of Händel's _Messiah_, the regular organist let me in on his secret: since he was seated at the back of the orchestra with his back to the rear stage wall, he figured that the audience couldn't see the back of his coat; so he wore his regular non-tailed tuxedo with white tie and waistcoat! This led me to do the same -- yes, uncouth, but again, who was to know? My fellow musicians certainly had no problem with it, as we all see these quite pragmatically as work clothes. But I'm reforming, now planning to complete my white tie ensemble with a proper tailcoat. And today, my vintage silk top hat (F. R. Tripler & Co.) arrived from eBay. It's a curiosity in terms of the class distinction that white and black tie used to signify, because orchestral musicians are hardly of aristocratic class. And while some noted conductors may earn salaries that can elevate them to some higher status, there are those who often eschew traditional formal dress, preferring to wear something more like an artist's smock (probably because they sweat profusely).

[@ericsonhazeltine5064]

YES! We need some formal parties offered from time to time with white or black tie required. Can GG institute some events around the country?

[@djb9189]

May the odds be ever in your favor.

[@K0HAKU_97]

I wish there were more occasions for me to dress nicely. I currently have no real reason to buy nice evening gowns or even cocktail dresses. I would be all for dressing up simply for the fun of it, but I just cannot justify it to my wallet 😅

[@daveb9451]

So selbstverständlich wie der Stahlhelm zur Paradeuniform - I lol'ed!

[@danendranobel8062]

Next black tie

[@gordoncgregory]

I go to 2 or 3 white tie events per year. Mostly these are masonic events or club dinners.

[@markbutler9442]

Too bad white tie is out of fashion and so uncommon. Would love to have an excuse to have a white tie outfit. I have a 1930's vintage silk plush topper that would be perfect for it. My last black tie event earlier this year was a 20's themed fund raiser gala, most who wore evening wear were in some version of black tie (about half done poorly) but there was one gentleman in a "version" of white tie and it did look bad when done incorrectly. He was wearing a turn down collar, I think tie may have been pre-tied variety too. I don't recall all the details but it was sad as it could have been a win with some effort.

[@playa318]

Scottish barristers wear a white tie outfit (albeit with morning trousers and black waistcoats).

[@countalma9800]

I know of a few events in the US where white tie is still worn (although most guests wear black tie). All events are in NY City. Vienna opera ball, Quadrille ball, Russian Children’s Welfare Society Petroushka Ball, Russian Nobility Association in America Spring ball. At Vienna Opera and Quadrille, the men who are taking part in the formal dances are required to wear white tie. Other guests have the option of wearing black tie. There is also the Debutante ball, but that event is exclusive to those who receive an invitation. The other balls mentioned here are open events and simply require one to purchase an entrance ticket. Now, unfortunately, both, the Petroushka ball and the Russian Nobility Ball have been cancelled because of the current war in Ukraine. The administration decided it to be inappropriate to celebrate at this tragic time, even though both organizations are non political and are dedicated only to charity and culture. So, there are now even fewer events left to wear white tie. Harvard and Yale glee clubs still require the singers to wear white tie. There is also that political dinner the presidential candidates always attend where everyone wears white tie. That’s about it. What’s sad is that 99% of people who get to wear white tie and tails, have no idea how it’s supposed to fit and can’t find a tailor who would help them. So, they end up looking ridiculous. Not too long ago I saw video recording of the king of Spain giving some awards. The recipients were all in tails and looked like clowns. I’ve never seen worst fitting tails in my life. This was not the case half a century ago when any decent store selling formal menswear would have professional staff that would explain the first time buyer how it’s all supposed to fit. So, when I see this, I think to myself - better for people to stick to black tie. The British royals are the last who know how to wear white tie. PS The last US president to wear white tie to his inaugural ball was Ronald Reagan. He was also the last to wear a “stroller” ensemble to his inauguration.

[@wardenm]

Also, why did we stop wearing tophats? Looks dapper af. XD

[@inregionecaecorum]

It must be well over a decade since I last went out in top hat, white tie and tails, I don't think I could get into the coat now, so that is why I stopped wearing the outfit :)

[@thepessolanoinquirer6856]

I tried wearing a Top hat, 3 Piece suit and bow tie with patent shoes in Las Vegas to the mall and I was questioned about being a magician, when I said I was not one the man looked confused with 18 eyes and was in shock as to why I was dressed like that. It’s hard to pull off white tie.

[@tj-co9go]

It's expensive and hard to produce. Also considered to be sweaty and uncomfortable. Even boring due to being black and white.

[@themanwithnoname6928]

Look like cray grant

[@zaco-km3su]

There is this perception that white tie and even black tie were quite common in the past. They weren't. You had to be a royal, aristocrat, industrialist or some other type of successful businessman to pretty much afford white tie. Basically less than 1% of the population could afford white tie. Also, besides the "lounge suit", which is what we call a business suit today, which was considered quite informal or casual there were no alternatives until the black tie code was developed. So if the rich wanted a bit more of a casual party they could only go for the "lounge suit" or just stick to the white tie dress. In time they started modifying the white tie suit, getting more comfortable shirts and coats and waistcoats until they developed what we call today black tie for more casual events. After that some organisers started choosing black tie for their events because it would allow the participants to enjoy themselves more....and more people could afford it. Basically it was more inclusive.

[@RichterBelmont02]

*I reserve the White Tie attire for special occasion only.* 😁