Why did Norman Finkelstein go on the Lex Fridman Podcast? | UpFront Web Extra

Last month, American political scientist Norman Finkelstein agreed to sit with Israeli historian Benny Morris, Middle East analyst Mouin Rabbani, and political livestreamer Steven Bonnell, also known as Destiny, on the Lex Fridman Podcast.
The heated discussion, in which Finkelstein and Destiny clashed repeatedly, sparked intense debate online.
In this UpFront Web Extra, Finkelstein explains why he agreed to be on the podcast, and whether he regrets his appearance on the show.

[@ricardocatano7999]

“Excuse me Mr Vanilli “

[@wrathful8178]

Don't show you're a Moran MR beecall

[@wguid]

Mr ...... Bordelli

[@Absraction]

reminder that finklestien is a racist and a transphobe. He's not a good guy, and theres a reason he was denied tenure.

[@JohnSmith-bq6nf]

Mister broccolli

[@Schmeadeable]

I think Norman’s ability to get Steven’s last name correct is akin to his ability to get the facts on Israel/Palestine right.

[@deee3950]

That… thing’s presence triggered me” 😂😂😂😂😂

[@nuanceblacksywin4868]

Well, he's a gamer with no relevant education what's famous for unhinged screaming at people and also rightfully fames for being self though through wikipedia, and this... "thing... was on a 4 hour debate with an expert who have used his whole life on the topic.... I can see how that's a bit triggering. Idk why he went along with it at all.

[@mollykyoto5220]

We feel you Norm, even a boomer feel the aura so hard he can accurately apply the right term for what he senses hahah ❤😂

[@gab1172]

@@nuanceblacksywin4868Dr.Norman did it for the wider audience, not because he wanted to debate Destiny 😅

[@sephatu6521]

😂 Indeed it is such an apt phrase. Love this man's work.

[@davidberry9226]

🤣😂

[@brynleyjones3635]

Him calling Destiny "that thing" is too much 😂

[@ookamigenji-pv2st]

Some might even call that "dehumanizing". Which is like the first step in the playbook of people who want to do harm to others and not face repercussions. It's almost like he learned the best (read: worse) techniques in history and decided he should apply them in real life. Truly a bastion of reason and justice.

[@yagirltones8748]

@ookamigenji-pv2st you mean like calling someone subhuman garbage or saying a people should be genocided which Destiny does constantly

[@ookamigenji-pv2st]

@@yagirltones8748 yup, except Destiny owns it and he is doing to be edgy as part of his brand. This guy pretends to be an intellectual as well as morally superior. He oozes with the worse kind of energy. Imagine refusing to engage in debate because you think the party on the other side is not educated enough to be worth your time. You'd think he would want to be a teacher, to show dominance and mastery. Instead he uses tricks from the same playbook as the alt-right and conservitards/leftoïds. How anyone can think his performance was anything other than pathetic for someone of his reputation is beyond me. It's not like Destiny was the only one he was debating against either.

[@Tom-kt8lu]

Dehumanization?

[@ookamigenji-pv2st]

@@Tom-kt8lu using the word "thing" to refer to a person is the most dehumanizing way to refer to them. Things are not worthy of yhr same considerations as people. Finkelstein cleary doesn't think Steven is worthy of thensame considerations as other people. Dehumanization 101.

[@doggieclaude]

Who is Destiny, sounds like a pole dancer?

[@wandamoon7639]

😂😂😂

[@anap847]

Actually a gamer😂

[@Marta1Buck]

His name is mr. Tortellini

[@bannock_bashi]

Exactly

[@nohandler1493]

😂

[@khansahb8]

Mr. Borelli was out of his depth.

[@shikharsrivastava3558]

lol it was Finkelstein who was throwing ad hominem argument like a complete moron he is.

[@rhetorical1488]

there are few who would not be.

[@pman88035]

You mean Mr Morreli?

[@suckassmork2972]

Mr. Benelli the Semi-automatic Shotgun.

[@Eks_Sinoveta]

Mr Brunelli, talk faster, motor mouth 😅

[@brettstarks1846]

“That thing.” 😂

[@porter9494]

America is a european country, however 6% of the population (blackmails) commits 52.6% of deletions, 33.3% of all a$$aults, 54.5% of all armed muggings, 29% of all grapes. It's not because of the poverty, it's part of their culture. It's what they are

[@diogenes.]

Where can i watch this in full ? You know!

[@Absraction]

He only uses ad hominem in debates. This really shouldnt be celebrated.

[@penabler]

People are going to be talking about that debate for decades.

[@Gee-xb7rt]

An Onlyfans model took down academia with Wikipedia. The greatest own in history.

[@Fitins400]

I highly doubt that, unless it's for the comedy of errors that it was

[@penabler]

@@Gee-xb7rt oh for sure, man

[@ItchyTrigahFingah]

Facts are Facts! Destiny is a Fantastic Moron!

[@Gphilly819]

Every time destiny had a good point Norman resorted to name calling and ad hominem attacks

[@ecm3530]

'you know what three months is?'

[@AliGoose2000]

Ah yes, let's focus on something that isn't relevant to the actual content of the debate.

[@A_Wolf]

​@iAmLachlanMartin the main point is that Isreal is an oppressive entity if you start JUST FROM OCT 7TH. 1500 people killed by Hamas(NOT INNOCENT PALESTINIANS) VS 30,000+ INNOCENT PALESTINIANS KILLED HALF OF WHICH ARE CHILDREN . GROW UP AND ADMIT WHEN YOU'RE WRONG 😊

[@ihsahnakerfeldt9280]

If you're implying this was a grammatical mistake (let's set aside how that would be completely irrelevant to his points anyway), you're not even right. In English, it's grammatically acceptable to use a singular verb to refer to time periods because the implication is that the time period is taken as a single unit rather than its components being referred to individually.

[@JohnnyDoorknob]

@free_palestine786Why is using Wikipedia a bad thing now? They link the sources

[@JohnnyDoorknob]

@free_palestine786 Have I ever verified a source on Wikipedia? Yes

[@nowellsukkar1521]

No words are enough to convey my Love, Respect and Gratitude for Professor Norman Finkelstein a True Legend who will never know the extent or the ripple effects of his Work, his Passion and the Sacrifices he has made on Millions around the world and especially on the Millions of Palestinian People for Generations 💛💛💛

[@MasterOfInfinity]

The Legend of Motormouth Bonorelli Began

[@user-pt1kj5uw3b]

As someone who had more prior knowledge of and respect for Finklestein than Destiny, this was an embarrassing showing.

[@roarbertbearatheon8565]

for who?

[@nigelbellecoste1391]

Indeed finkelstein showed what a joke he is... Only appealing to authority and having no single factual argument

[@Falroth]

​@@roarbertbearatheon8565finkle

[@JabbaWocky]

same. i was so hyped to finally see a historian destroy all those retarded pro-zionist points only for him deliver the most embarassing debate i have ever witnessed a scholar partake in. "i have read 10.000 books" but cant name a single fact to counter the gamers arguments? what an embarassement

[@carefreetraveler2280]

Yes it was. Norm is a spoiled man child who got embarrassed. Imagine he spent his entire life studying this and can’t answer a single question post to him and he supposed to be some expert. Comical. And what even worse for him is it now for the rest of his life he hast to be asked about this horrible debate that he had. He’s famous to thousands of people for this debate as he is a quack outside of this. He’s going to have to stipulate that no interviewer ask him about this debate in the future.

[@Buckycarson]

Rabbi Smucky botex lok

[@OPQRS328]

😆🤣

[@stalebread7972]

lmao

[@sooxpix]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😊

[@NathanAllebach]

Knowing Finkelstein's depth of knowledge on the subject and Destiny's alleged lack thereof, he should have engaged with Destiny's arguments rather than dismissing and name-calling the whole debate. When the dust settles, this will be one of his most viewed appearances ever-arguably more memorable than his first showing with Dershowitz-and yet, to people on the fence, he came across as (and self-admittedly was) emotionally unhinged. As Finkelstein reflects here, public debates are about optics-convincing the audience-not persuading your opponent, which rarely happens in the moment. It can feel cathartic to yell at someone you view as inferior to your expertise, but that's not how serious scholars ought to act. In fact, Marc Lamont Hill is also very well read on Israel-Palestine and he had a recent debate with Destiny as well, which was a much better model for persuasive rhetoric.

[@Robert_Bob_Bobrob]

That's a cope. To anyone who isn't motivated to champion Bonerelli it was obvious he was outclassed and not ridiculing his disgusting lack of qualifications whilest spouting pro war crime rhetoric would have been a disservice to the public discourse!

[@NathanAllebach]

@@Robert_Bob_Bobrob People on the fence likely know very little about the debater’s backgrounds, so again, optics matter. And you can call out someone’s lack of credentials, THEN follow-up with rebuttals. They aren’t mutually exclusive. I’d have to rewatch, but I recall Finkelstein repeatedly name calling and dismissing Destiny’s points, which does not look good to people who aren’t ideologically on the same side already.

[@aufheben555]

This is an incredibly annoying point, "optics", give me a break. Don't ignore how presumptuous, rude and generally ridiculous Destiny is.

[@DannyIMCF]

@@Robert_Bob_Bobrob And just like everyone else you can't give a single example of how outclassed he was. Keep enjoying your echo chamber.

[@NathanAllebach]

⁠@@aufheben555the entire purpose of public debate is optics-it’s persuasively communicating your ideas. If Finkelstein just wanted viral clips of him calling Destiny a moron for fellow leftists to enjoy, he succeeded, but I think someone of his stature would prefer to persuade folks to his side, given the opportunity to reach a new audience with this platform.

[@sinerehber]

Go watch the debate. It was Destiny who first went on N. Finkelstein. He repeatedly taunted him, challenged the facts N. Finkelstein presented and even blatantly accused him of lack of knowledge. It was after that relentless attacking of Destiny that N. Finkelstein started to throw insults at him. Heck, even Benny Morris couldn't supress his smiles because those insults were spot on and well deserved. I honestly wish he wouldn't. But go watch it and you will see that Destiny really asked for it.

[@kakaistheman2007]

Fronkelstein has "lack of knowledge", and Destiny didn't insult him. Frunkelstein reacted like a 5 years old kid. It's so nice to see his true face. Aggressive and with no arguments.

[@killzone866]

Benny Morris was laughing at Norm.

[@Fwobbed]

Yes because Norm despite all his amazing knowledge has a character that is hard to resist a laugh at. He keeps going on about his power of words but goes off on a tangents that adds no value to his arguments and repeats stuff already answered. In terms of reaching the wider public it doesn't work. It's clearly irritating. He actually laughed later on after Norman had already started belittling him. And it was just after the part where he asked if he believed the majority of deaths on 7th October was caused by Hamas which Norm answered terribly. Norm came across terribly in this debate and really shouldn't have, but that's Norm for you. All that knowledge but so deeply wasted.

[@kakaistheman2007]

@@Fwobbed what knowledge are you talking about ? he can only read books written in english... He obviously only reads what he wants to read (and what he can read), and what he reads, he can't even understand it (Benny Morris point of view).

[@_Dumb_Answers]

The easiest way to tell if somebody has watched the debate fully is if they think Dr. Finkelstein bodied Mr Borreli

[@mintaj3015]

leave mr Balotelli alone

[@haiderimran9561]

It's spelt Mr Maroni, fantastic morons

[@sheriefelsayad5578]

Anyone who has even a little bit of knowledge on the subject were Absolutely laughing at Morris and Mr Bocelli, their performance was Absolutely laughable they might as well have been spokespersons for The IDF. Riveted with lies and propaganda. And then you have this slimey little weasle Lonerbox who thinks he has the slighest clue on the topic thinking he can educate and prepare Destiny in 3 months for a debate like this. But Im glad Destiny embarrased himself in front of the whole world. It was pretty awesome.

[@renatopereira2315]

Mr. Divorcelli clearly won the debate through superior debate bro skills

[@sheriefelsayad5578]

😂 Anyone who has even a little bit of knowledge on the subject were Absolutely laughing at Morris and Mr Bocelli. But im glad Destiny embarrased himself in front of the whole world to see. Lonerbox thought he could prepare his buddy Destiny in 3 months with his 2 brain cell level knowledge 😂

[@totallynotthefeds36]

Wait... Did he call Destiny "that thing" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Nihil01]

Dude why is nobady talking about Norman calling Rabbi Shmuley like this: 4:30 XD

[@Pomegranate_David]

Why? Do you want to defend that guy's honour?😂😂 Candace destroyed Shmuley long ago.

[@wiredvibe1678]

​@Pomegranate_David the only thing candace Owen's has destroyed is her conscience.

[@Pomegranate_David]

@@wiredvibe1678 How exactly? Because she objects to the state murder of children in Gaza? Seems like she has more of a conscience than you.

[@kevinmahon7848]

Wrong place to look for Schmuley Fans.

[@drainfunk]

Called him Rabbi Schmuckey? Danny from Boyscast did a sketch on this

[@internethardcase]

What an actual clown world. I never thought I'd see the day serious news networks would discuss with an academic about an internet blood sports debate they had with a gaming KZbinr. Just insane when you really think about it

[@TheBaaz07]

Norm's not even considering destiny as a human. Refers to him as "the thing" "that thing". Hilarious.

[@stellabrown909]

Good!!! 😂😂😂

[@b.ballooon9225]

Yah, really drives home my point, Finkel dehumanizes anyone who isn't rich enough for fancy diplomas. He's a classist, calls himself marxist but hypocritically engages in elitism to the level of actual dehumanization. He's not even hiding it. Anyone who can look up to someone who belittles others that much instead of just engaging with their points needs to think long and hard about what type of person you support. It's just really low to engage in those types of insults and dehumanization, if you have better ideas, then bring them out, disprove the other guy, don't just engage in dehumanization because you don't want to "look bad" or it's "beneath you". Those are cowardly excuses.

[@duxnihilo]

@@b.ballooon9225How many words to say "I'm lazy".

[@b.ballooon9225]

@@duxnihilo Just thought of a good way to summarize it though. Finkelstein spends more time talking about how impressive he is, about how experienced, and how knowledgeable he is on this topic, then he does actually talking about the things he knows about this topic. He spends so much time talking about how smart he is, he never proves it, he never talks about the details, he just quotes other people of authority and says "See, that's what they say", but he's incapable of going through the actual arguments and points. That's lazy. Funny you call me lazy, but Finkel is the one too lazy to engage in actual conversations, and he's the one who says "You're not worth my time". That's lazy, normal people counter ignorant statements, Finkel just throws insults and excuses. If he was really smart, he'd counter every one of Destiny's points, but he won't, because he can't. He's a coward, and an obvious dumb one at that. You just can't see it because you're too deep into an echo chamber.

[@b.ballooon9225]

@@duxnihilo There are also even counters to Destiny's points that weren't brought up, good ones, and Finkel wasn't smart enough or he was too lazy, but he didn't bring them up, and used his elitist excuses like "you're beneath me" type stuff. Is this the guy you really want to defend the Palestinians? Someone who cannot even come up with counters to Destiny when I could? Someone who uses insults and excuses to cowardly pretend he doesn't have to respond, when in reality, he has no response. You really want someone who cannot counter someone who researched this for four months as your primary defender. IF he could have countered, he would have, or should have, you shouldn't want someone like Finkel defending your cause, he's making it worse for Palestinians, he doesn't even make the right arguments towards Destiny or Morris, there are counters, and he doesn't even make them, that's how stupid he is.

[@cicerogsuphoesdown7723]

Yeah but that’s fallacious and illogical. It shouldn’t matter if it’s 3 months or 30 years. A sound argument is a sound argument. Appealing to your own authority rather than doubling down on cogent arguments is not a great look.

[@davidanderson6055]

Exactly

[@aliciamarquez251]

OK mayonnaise

[@cicerogsuphoesdown7723]

Mayonnaise? We doin race stuff forreal?

[@hashimrahman51]

If your facts (or assumptions) are false, it’s doesn’t matter if your logic is flawless.

[@Falroth]

​@@hashimrahman51you should be able to demonstrate that

[@FroogleEatsGoogle]

As always it's easier to focus on people instead of ideas. :(

[@nigelralphmurphy2852]

What ideas were those?

[@garyc2630]

@@nigelralphmurphy2852 90-95% of Destiny's points were directly from UN or the international court's reports, he drew to that as source material than anything else. So those were Destiny's ideas. Norm didn't address them, nor did he get the definition of what a genocide is correct. For having such a lengthy time researching the topic, it seems he got some things wrong. Which is either embarrassing via ignorance or deliberate lies.

[@kaoc799]

I love that man's sense of humour

[@Absraction]

Remebmer when he called his brown neighbors apes and threatened to call immigration to deport them?

[@Comptonymous]

Honestly his demeanor came off as nervous and fearful, not a sense of ego because he doesn’t want to interact. Finkelstein shouldn’t have done the debate if he felt like it was a waste of time.

[@Dan16673]

Yeah this f7ckin cry baby

[@franklindelanoroosevelt9177]

The real question should be why was destiny on that podcast

[@Erakyd]

Views, as simple as that.

[@lilmoe4364]

To represent the young and arrogant? Or "The young and the restless" ? 🤣

[@041_mirqazim3]

Coz they wanted to bring Shapiro there and he declined to save himself, then they needed to bring a clown.

[@fr.Angel21]

To level down the debate's seriousness. Destiny's appearance was spontaneous, both Lex and Benny told Destiny what to do

[@Absraction]

He made a lot of good points I thought. Weird how Norm just used insults instead of actualy just debating on the facts. He just kept saying "ive read so many books" ....okay dude tell us whats in them.

[@secondlastnameleft]

04:32 "Rabbi Schmuckey Botox" 😂

[@technomancer0712]

Norm gave no push back beyond insults and even when Benny agreed with destiny

[@ad5772]

watch the whole thing, put in slow motion if you are struggling to see how he tracked and decimated Density's motormouth rants.

[@mangowizard]

you did not watch the debate.

[@yonaoisme]

@@ad5772ok, name a single time stamp where norm rebutted a single argument of destiny.

[@nuanceblacksywin4868]

"Even Benny"? What do you mean? Benny was on Destiny's side all along. He's a genocide defender, like Destiny.

[@thekaiser1156]

He talked to Benny, he treated Destiny like the whiney snot nose loser that he was/is. Cry about it.

[@wren4077]

then why agree ... why do the podcast ... what?

[@Gryffisnmore]

I mean he was the one to read and understand Morris's book, instead of just the first paragraph.

[@lilSlowJoe]

Im a big time political historian and should be taken seriously, proceeds to name call and troll the opposition.

[@nurnia]

I mean, even if he doesn't want to give legitimacy to Destiny, couldn't he have simply put it that way instead of using insulting and degrading languages?

[@theberserker6000]

You do realise what the topic of discussion is? People are getting exterminated and you cant take the subject lightly as Destiny did. Norm's reaction is perfectly normal, coming from someone who studied the ins and out of the subject for 40 years.

[@nurnia]

@@theberserker6000 It's understandable, but very ineffective. This might be his most watched video on Palestinians on KZbin and yet he comes across as an angry intellectual, and that tunes people out from the actual issue.

[@theberserker6000]

@@nurnia keep in mind that he blew later on after 30 or 40 mins of discussion, what really made him blow up was the arrogance of Destiny who said "let me teach you" after reading a few wikipedia articles. Even the professor on his side was laughing at Destiny.

[@nurnia]

@@theberserker6000 It's one thing to laugh, and then it's another thing to be condescending and berating. I'm not on Destiny's side here and most of us have experienced our ego and judgmental thoughts taking over, Finkelstein was just having a very human moment. But the very seriousness of the subject he's discussing is the very reason he could've been more effective and put that on the front and center, rather than his anger.

[@briangrant3332]

Seriously, what is destiny bringing to these conversations and why are all these media outlets forcing him upon us?

[@Falroth]

Because he's actually challenging your delusions

[@briangrant3332]

@@Falroth And who is Destiny other than a random debate-bro from the internet? Why is he in this debate with actual scholars and people who studied this conflict for decades. What makes him qualified to speak on the matter?

[@fabulamcafee]

​@@briangrant3332 he has credibility and a work ethic behind it. does actual debates and focus on information rather than presentation. the behavior that he does not take a side, only after more and more information is so refreshing to watch. everything he has researched day after day for more than 30 days is online, good luck finding something where he is not good faith or that he can not justify to the end. this behavior is why everyone mocks him instead of getting into his arguments, because otherwise they would lose

[@fttw4401]

He has NO credibility, that's the point.

[@PurpHazeCannaCult]

@@fttw4401who gets to decide who’s credible or not?

[@scenario1741]

Mr. Morelli unfortunately embarrassed Norm. A man who studied for 3 months should not have handled a man who dedicated his entire adult life to a subject.

[@killzone866]

yeah he could have schooled him and educated him, but instead he decided to act a fool. A pathetic display.

[@fana9863]

"Haha, Jokes on them ... i was merely pretending that i don't have any good arguments."

[@sheriefelsayad5578]

As opposed to Destiny and Morris which had no arguments at all, they just went through every hasbara lie in the book. Quite funny apologists 😂

[@dafodil23333]

O​@@sheriefelsayad5578

[@zakygerman9897]

@@sheriefelsayad5578if they were talking bullshit, it’s a shame that norm didn’t correct them.

[@fctoryReset]

​@@sheriefelsayad5578 try not to OD on all that copium

[@GuilhermeNunes-ss6hk]

​@@zakygerman9897 I don't agree with attacks either, but the thing is, Norman is well-known in academia. Everyone knows this guy has a big brain and he has plenty of published scientific articles. Although people are saying he was lashing out because of a lack of arguments, I don't buy it. Everybody knows he has deep knowledge of this stuff. He was just upset, he's old, and I don't think he can change his temperament at this point.

[@TheTelavivian]

So how come Benny agreed with everyhting Destiny said? Why didn't you bother actually trying to answer his questions instead of trying to deflect to slander?

[@Elassyahmed]

Constantly changing how he addressed destiny through the interview was hilarious

[@pitybreaker6625]

3:33 if the main critisicm is that it is extremely arrogant of someone, to assume that he can hold his own in that discussion after 3 months of reading wikipedia, then why not smash him on the facts. Because now, you get him to go home to his cult following and say: look, my opponent was an emotional trainwreck that didn‘t do anything except attack my character.

[@chloegrobler4275]

its a chance to legitimise the guy who has only 3 months of reading, thats why

[@Paulie_Geelie]

He did, Norm was constantly educating Destiny while Destiny was talking over him.

[@joshuadehler5039]

@@chloegrobler4275cope

[@joshuadehler5039]

@@Paulie_Geeliewatch again

[@davidanderson6055]

​​​@@chloegrobler4275 he completely legitimized him. I was never a fan of destiny, but at least in the first half he gave arguments that i wanted to hear an answer to, and finklestein's partner gave some answers that I could listen to. Finklestein just wasted time. I got the impression the entire conflict in Israel and Palestine was not as important to him as his own ego.

[@wiredvibe1678]

This was the debate where finkelstein said everyone has a bit of antisemitism in them

[@Grassisgreenbean]

Because of the society we live in, not because it’s inherent in us.

[@troubadour0663]

And he is right. There was anti-semitism in King Arthur's Court.

[@jaybrosbarber2751]

​@@Grassisgreenbeanok buddy

[@trytobedied]

You're downplaying it actually. His exact quote was "I don't know a single non-jew who doesn't harbour antisemitic sentiments, I don't know anybody, that's just part of the human condition" which is an absolutely insane statement to make.

[@troubadour0663]

@@trytobedied Well as a Jew, I guess his lived experience may have informed his take.

[@philoshua]

I understand Finkelstein's perspective, but ultimately it's just a bit snobbish and basically the opposite of how an intellectual should interact with laypeople even if you think they are obnoxious.

[@michealjaymurphy]

but that really isn’t what finkelstein is hes a guy that got fired for abusing his co workers, who rights pop books to profit off the war

[@markz2631]

*pseudo-intellectual

[@SICunchained]

Yup. Imagine being any layperson listening to how Finkelstein speaks. He doesn't encourage learning. He encourages bullying people for not being as experienced. And if you aren't as experienced and you disagree with him on anything, you must be wrong. But even though you're wrong, I won't address your claims directly - I will just shame you for taking an interest in the subject. It doesn't matter what side of the conflict you are on; you should be able to recognize the toxicity in his views and how it encourages toxic behavior far outside of the confines of the debate. Don't accept a debate if you don't want to debate. No one forced Norm to be there.

[@syedsirajuddin6710]

Did you see how Finkelstein treated Morris vs how he treated Destiny? Destiny is a debate bro who talks about the topic of the week with no real understanding of the facts. In a debate with actual scholars on a subject he knew very little about, Destiny has the audacity to call Finkelstein a grifter- someone who spent decades on the issue and wrote literal scholarly work while Destiny got all his information from wikipedia.

[@johnsmith92704]

No actually - Finkelstein is almost the opposite with genuine beginners who want to learn. His attitude is a completely correct for laypeople who approach a new topic in the massively egotistical way that Destiny does. I’ve never quite seen someone so unable to consider the possibility of being wrong and approach a subject with a lack of rigour. Destiny is a little weasel who would sooner shoot his grandmother than admit he was wrong about something, you see it time and time again where he attempts to pivot conversation with his motor mouth when it’s zeroing in on a specific point that he hasn’t done his research on. I could compile a list of at least 20 such occasions.

[@tcbuzz]

Benny Morris looked bad having that clown on his side.

[@lordmcawesomeville5628]

Ironic thing is that Marc Lamont Hill actually had a very intelligent and productive conversation with Destiny on the topic.

[@garyc2630]

Yes and if you watched that debate as a Destiny fan then you can even see where some of Destiny's arguments are weak, and where some are strong. Even the comments on that video (on Destiny's channel) call Destiny out, which happens about 5% of the time, showing what Mr Hill was able to do. I tried watching the debate with him and Mosad, and as much as I respect Mosad, they often strayed from the actual topics and it wasn't very productive. When I say I 'tried', I watched the whole thing, but I did not learn much. They got too bogged down in the origins of Israel and Palastine, which is an argument of 'who came first'. But that argument does little in the way of what happens now in 2024. Key examples would be the conquering of the Americas, the USSR, the Falklands, these 'who came first' arguments don't apply in a modern 21st century context because people did things from

[@kashual]

It’s absolutely crazy how someone who studied it their entire life refused to engage at all with the contested material and just relied on insults

[@SadisNic]

He can't come to terms with the fact his entire life's work has amounted to something that can't stand up to 3 months of "wikipedia" scrutiny

[@barzdinstone3831]

he slung mud back at destiny, you fan boys are sad, got fed up with mr botchelli being a child and towing IOF lies.

[@kashual]

@@barzdinstone3831 sure Jan

[@kashual]

@@barzdinstone3831 if only he slung back counter arguments

[@Falroth]

​@@barzdinstone3831 imagine being you 😂

[@conorschweppe]

For a guy who supposedly knows so much, you'd think he'd say something of substance. I literally cannot remember any part of the debate in which he said anything remotely of value. Thank god he has that piece of paper on his wall telling everyone he's intelligent because without that, he'd be in the poor house.

[@mscott316]

whatever you fantastical moron. go read your wikipedia...

[@AliGoose2000]

@@mscott316 What's wrong with wikipedia?

[@nuanceblacksywin4868]

@@AliGoose2000 First thing: It can be inaccurate. Next: It's summaries, so it can't make you an expert at anything. It gives you surface level information.

[@thekaiser1156]

41 year professor with multiple university jobs vs Failed music major turned cuck gamer defending a genocidal apartheid state with all of 3 months of research on wikipedia Yeah I wonder why he didn't take Mr. Monochelli seriously lol

[@alaron5698]

@@nuanceblacksywin4868 Compared to books, which, of course, cannot be inaccurate...

[@snortymcsnortface]

Frickelstine looks relaxed, seems like he succeded in deporting his neighbours 😂

[@davidjohnson5557]

Pin this comment

[@hunir1]

Dr. Finkelstein is hilarious in his description of rivals

[@b.ballooon9225]

more like dehumanizing.

[@ImranKhan-gs2hy]

*opponents

[@Falroth]

Its like a belligerent child calling someone childish. Hilarious

[@MrRonock]

It falls so flat when someone simply appeals to their own authority and refuses to engage with people they believe are inferior. If he is truly such a researched and refined scholar he should have taken Destiny to class and absolutely schooled him on every point he was wrong on. None of that happened, he sat there and was quite frankly an embarrassment to his partner and i found myself only tracking the conversations between Mouin and his opposition

[@broccoli7263]

Finkelstein has argued with Morris about books Morris wrote. I don't mean he has disagreed with the content. No. He quotes Morris and argues about what Morris really meant to say... with Morris. I don't know, man.

[@christopher.j.m]

he debated Morris and gave 0 legitimacy to that "thing", as was appropriate. this is similar to debating a flat-earther, u don't give them legitimacy

[@sheriefelsayad5578]

He did tho. When Destiny was literally defending the targeting of civilians and doing hasbara lies Finkelstein called him out on it, Destiny had no place being at this table and Mouin called him out multiple times on his lies and absolute ingorance. Even if norm didnt expose him one on one.. just Destiny showing up to this debate he exposed himself. Even Benny Morris was laughing at him😂

[@thekaiser1156]

He did! Watch the debate between him and Benny Morris and ignore the sniveling child which he treated as such. Why should he, the professor with 40 years of academic history, take the cuck failed music major gamer seriously?

[@MrRonock]

@@sheriefelsayad5578 That's cool, I know 100% you didn't watch the debate after saying Benny laughed at him, you are just copying every other lefty streamer's position

[@KaoukabiJaouad]

I feel great if even Mr Finkelstein has trolls getting under his skin, imagine myself I always felt that them getting me mad was a weakness but in fact it is a normal reaction there is no way around it, you just need to keep to working on yourself

[@brocks6200]

something about his cadence that is uncommercial, like I can see interviewers get upset at how slowly he speaks

[@revdev5511]

Having destiny on that panel was an insult to everyones intelligence

[@stellabrown909]

Real talk

[@alaron5698]

You say that, yet he behaved better than Finkestein did.

[@b.ballooon9225]

Having arrogant elitists like Finkel on there who don't engage with points was an insult to everyone's time, at least Morris called Finkel out on it a few times by defending Destiny.

[@kuga_4038]

@@alaron5698 and the very intelligent opponent decided to insult him rather than using his knowledge

[@jessew7565]

@@alaron5698 This right here is the crux of it - its about the behavior, its about the rhetoric, its not about the substance. Destiny is an entertainer, period. He isn't an intellectual in any way shape or form.

[@gripped6184]

Yo this guy is saying that Rabbi guy is a debate to have in good faith but Destiny, accompanied by Benny Morris is not..i dont know in what sane universe that tracks.

[@skyedavies1042]

When the interviewer asks if it was worth it, it’s so clearly a yes.

[@saberswordsmen1]

I didn't actually watch the debate, but "I studied this for 3 months so now I'm more knowledgeable than everyone else" definitely is Destiny in a nutshell as a rule lol. 😅

[@killzone866]

which is why Norm should have educated him but instead he acted a fool.

[@saberswordsmen1]

@@killzone866 yeah, I'd believe that from Mr Ficklestone as well, honestly.

[@segasaturndude8945]

@@killzone866 there is no educating destiny. All the evidence for his lies being debunked were out there to read himself. He just wants to defend Israel at any cost because he has a history of being a raving islamophobe. He repeats IDF propaganda at face value. At this point, 3 months on from the debate, anybody who still takes destiny's stance is just willfully ignorant. Destiny is willing to defend Israel at any cost even defending straight up lies that have been debunked for weeks. Honestly there is nothing Norm could have done to educate that thing.

[@sovietcupcakes328]

Mister Spaghetti should stick to playing games.

[@bangpow6160]

Norm claims that he could easily handle destiny since all he does is read wiki but all he did was childishly yell and scream at him and name call him during the debate. Destiny looked more like an academic than Norm ever did.

[@Zanzan8]

First time I see Norman relaxed and smiling

[@keanupessoa7287]

I wish Norman Finkelstein actually engaged with propositions put forward by Mr.Borellsi instead of gossiping. If you want to say Destiny is unable to engage in your robust arguments, then that makes you look good. But right now, it seems to go the other way

[@RobertBrown-qq2ol]

Openly and proudly stated he's never heard of dolus specialis. Misrepresents resolution 242 argues with Alan dershowitz who had a very small hand in drafting it.

[@turkaan]

Can we have the whole interview ?

[@castelodeossos3947]

Search' on KZbin 'Israel-Palestine Debate: Finkelstein, Destiny, M. Rabbani & Benny Morris | Lex Fridman Podcast'. Almost 5 hours of talk leading nowhere, alas, because the perspective of the two sides is irreconcilable, obviously.

[@turkaan]

@@castelodeossos3947 Thanks but I already watched that one and having destiny there was definitely a total waste of the seat.. aside from the entertainment value🤡 i’m talking about this one thats clipped

[@castelodeossos3947]

@@turkaan My apologies. Realized what you meant as I was going to bed yesterday.

[@turkaan]

@@castelodeossos3947 no worries, thanks for the attempt at though 👌🏼 I found it, its on marc lamont’s youtube

[@Falroth]

​@@turkaan I also hate when someone makes valid arguments. I feel you bro

[@olivermaier-landshut3047]

Mr Bormanny had his facts straight!

[@joemartin6078]

the issue here is Destiny is probably 140 I.Q. and is part of the modern age. back in the 80s you had to read books. now you can do what destiyn did, which read Wikipedia, then read the links to it, then look up major people's views on it, then look up historical documents, and so on. if you have enough drive and intelligence with the modern age you could end up being as knowledgeable as someone who spent their whole life reading books. because of this Destiny's entire existence breaks Finkelstein's reality, which is why he got triggered. why need to go to school when you can find everything on google. what's even better is Finkelstein by being on the internet he gives what he learned, so you don't have to read all those books, but instead you can see counterpoints to his narrative.

[@paulf1461]

If he actually thought destiny couldn’t keep up in the conversation. Why not just engage and defeat the arguments? It should be easy, right? Going complete troll ad hom just makes it look like you’re scared to engage.

[@monkeykingeater]

It isn't easy to debate someone with a huge amount of debating experience on matters of fact though, whether they're right or wrong. The audience doesn't have the evidence to hand, so they'll more often than not decide who's right based on vibes and whether they already agreed with them.

[@willneverstop]

@@monkeykingeaterI disagree. I think when the facts and timelines are parced out you can figure out what happened. The difference then comes down to interpretation of the facts…but the Norman he wouldn’t even engage at all. So as a listener who interested in the topic myself I came away super disappointed.

[@bohillers2634]

He explained his reasoning in the video. Mouin did plenty of explaining

[@azuwaharis]

Finkelstein has every right to troll him.

[@thekaiser1156]

What arguments? Just saying "um actually, the IDF could nuke Gaza and it wouldn't be genocide!" Gtfoh dude, he's a genocide apartheid defending moron and you're a loser for following him lol

[@reubenmcmurray4377]

He went on to troll. It was insanely disappointing, i wish they had not invited him. I came away with the intense feeling everything he says is a grift and he actually doesnt care about Israel Palestine at all.

[@khushbakht6630]

I love how introspective and self-aware Finkelstein is. And I love him.

[@thelazyhandyman8581]

Respect to these two men.

[@mateigheorghiu]

I do understand the frustration of a scholar who worked his whole life on a subject, and here comes some "punk" who doesn't care about seniority, thinks he knows better and has a bigger audience. However, Norm's behavior in that debate and every time he talks about Destiny makes him look more like a grumpy old man who continues to apply cheap ad hominems to mask the fact that he's not even going to engage with the opponents points and arguments. And that is bad for the discussion overall and makes Finklestein look like he's losing the debate. Unfortunately people will mostly remember NF calling Destiny a Wikipedia moron (which he is not) or 20 different names than anything else of substance discussed in that debate. And it was a great debate otherwise, I know I learned extremely much from it from all the 4 panelists.

[@Falroth]

Its too bad NF didnt conduct himself like an actual expert. It might have been an interesting conversation. Too bad he's apparently just a fraud

[@killzone866]

@@Falroth it really sucks because it should be taken seriously.

[@bruhdabones]

Finally, the one true thing this man has said. What an unserious person! The one question that remains is, which minority will his next neighbors be? And will he also threaten to ICE them out of the country?

[@khazaddum6599]

You literally repeat the very same words Destiny called him. A cult following indeed.

[@bruhdabones]

@@khazaddum6599 which word? Should I have grabbed a thesaurus and found a more niche alternative? I’m not sure what’s got you so upset

[@jaybrosbarber2751]

Unlike Norman finklestein, who repeats talking points from twitter.

[@ennuiii]

Norms a dipshit, but you weirdos obsessing over his personal life is very strange.

[@iby914]

​@@bruhdabonesblah blah blah

[@WitchDoctor87]

Norm shouldnt be ashamed of a thing about that "debate." It should be a teaching.

[@Wiffernubbin]

Repeatedly pointing out the difference in time they've spent makes Finkelstein look worse and worse. Not one clip of Finkelstein correcting Bonnelli exists so far.

[@thekaiser1156]

No he doesn't, not to anyone who isn't fans of a genocide defending cuck lol

[@p_snimon_enis9850]

Ladies and gentlemen: insecurity.

[@JorgeAlbertoJerez]

This.

[@DP-ic2lz]

Wym?

[@greentilde4751]

cope

[@ihsahnakerfeldt9280]

The mere fact that you think he's insecure and afraid of debating someone who couldn't locate Israel on a map a couple of months ago and thought Erdgan was the president of Israel shows how truly delusional Destiny's cult followers are. It's insane.

[@JorgeAlbertoJerez]

@@ihsahnakerfeldt9280 Cope.

[@sidanx7887]

Riding this all the way up aren’t we - good for you

[@to4ste]

How about discussing the issues rather than the insults? Oh wait… Norm got outclassed by 3 months of Wikipedia

[@gazesalso645]

Finkelstein's reaction to the discussion makes a lot more sense now. Unfortunately, without the context and without knowing Destiny, I had no idea why he reacted that way. It did cheapen the discussion, unfortunately.

[@pitybreaker6625]

What exactly makes more sense?

[@fctoryReset]

No wonder that the guy who can't speak, also can't argue. Not surprising. His life's work, destroyed by a single streamer

[@BowlSoHard]

yeah keep telling yourself that

[@fctoryReset]

@@BowlSoHard don't choke on the copium

[@BowlSoHard]

@@fctoryReset why so triggered 😂😂?

[@dharmabum1925]

@fctoryReset Destiny didn't even score a single point in that debate. He has since gone on to lose more debates. Haven't actually seen anyone win a debate taking the pro-Netanyahu side 😅

[@jaysmith3546]

@@dharmabum1925 if you think finklestein won this debate at this point there is nothing more to say to you cause your brain is so rotted you will bend myths to facts. I wasted an hour and half on Finklestein misquoting benny right infront of everyone over and over then tell Benny THE MAN WHO HE IS QUOTING THAT HE KNOWS WHAT HE MEANT BUT BENNY HIMSELF DIDNT. Let me guess your response is gonna be every finklestein talking point then tell me i have no clue what im talking about

[@notloki3377]

Mr. Pastrami didn't deserve an argument. Anyone who thinks he's a legit voice is impervious to argument, and anyone who isn't impervious to argument enjoys a good laugh.

[@SSdet]

What a wasted opportunity to absolutely destroy Destiny and instead debases himself for 5 hours behaving like a petulant troll.

[@nazimbahrin3638]

That "thing" should've never been there

[@DavidDemurs]

neither should those "things" in so-called "Palestine"

[@nazimbahrin3638]

@@DavidDemurs K

[@Matt-mh3ol]

I agree, Norm shouldn't have been there.

[@nazimbahrin3638]

@@Matt-mh3ol Really? Thank you so much for that thoughtful insight.

[@raylax7056]

yup the thing called DumpsterINY didn't belong there in any format and was an utter waste of time.

[@andrewschiff914]

So Hill and Finkelstein want to pretend that the debate was against Destiny, when the main antagonist to Finkelstein was Benny Morris, a seriously accomplished histiorian. Plus, you cant deny that Destiny is a smart guy, even if he is new to the topic. So why not school the newbie by focusing on supposedly weak arguments. Finklestein behaved like a child in that debate.

[@nofuture9971]

Destiny is not smart at all just talks fast and brings wrong information

[@lianecornils6603]

I didn’t search the Gaza topic on the web. I watch filtered tv news. And I knew immediately when it came to my front door. 🚪

[@roxannek162]

Love these 2 together and MLH pointing out that NF wasn’t using great strategy in name calling, but NF saying, “eh. Maybe but I just couldn’t.”

[@MultiWaveWave]

2 guys who are in love of their own voice doing a conversation. here we go :)

[@Will_Moffett]

In theory you'd like to calmly establish a fact base for a discussion while having a discussion, but in practice when you encounter people who are high in ignorance and high in confidence you can't help but think that the more efficient route to truth is to establish, as the first fact in the fact base, that your opponent doesn't know at all what they are talking about. That way you don't have to continually correct them on the facts and perpetually widen the debate and never get to any truth. Then you get accused of argument by authority which, while technically valid, is sometimes necessary to move things along when discussing things with a total neophyte. And if the neophyte resists and continually asserts total ignorance then things will just break down but there was never any chance for a fruitful discussion anyway. The discussion becomes about how ignorant one party is.

41 years in the profession and at the end Lex Fridman wiped the floor with him like a rag

[@TheJessie1949]

Lex Fridman did not adjudicate this one well. Poorly done.

[@kennyfernandez2866]

"That thing?" - sepaking like that just totally deligitimizes this dude. Wow.

[@SadisNic]

Refusal to refute anything Destiny said on the basis of "I've been doing this for 40 years and you for 3 months" is intellectual gatekeeping. Not to mention throughout the entire debate, Benny Morris, who is arguably more experienced and learned on the topic than Finkelstein is, regularly backed what Destiny was saying. The immediate disregard and eventual ad hominem attacks Finkelstein launches into are the proof he's a coward who can't admit his entire life's work amounted to something that can't stand against three months worth of "wikipedia" research. The man picked out of context quotes that are in opposition to his position, quoted his own books, and tried to argue over the intent behind a quote with THE MAN WHO LITERALLY WROTE IT.

[@kelbyrock7041]

I’m still waiting for where exactly did Norm “dog walk” Destiny ? All he did was yell insults and act elitist

[@TheJessie1949]

Did you watch the debate? Who was yelling and babbling?

[@user-mn2lh7iy4q]

​@@TheJessie1949I watched them twice. ficklestein is yelling all the time)

[@TheJessie1949]

@@user-mn2lh7iy4q I have watched it twice and will likely watch it again. Destiny was loud, rude, disrespectful throughout. Professor Finkelstein was constantly interrupted, loudly and belligerently constantly. And most of it was nonsense. Destiny was out of his element, and he tried cover it up by talking nonsense quickly, loudly and belligerently, and the moderator did NOTHING

[@jaybrosbarber2751]

​@TheJessie1949, do you have examples?

[@TheJessie1949]

@@jaybrosbarber2751 Look it up. You have access to the debate. Do your work. Finkelstein does and Destiny gets his information scrolling. Enough said

[@talmudovsky]

Finkelstein knew whom he would be talking to. He could decline but did not. Regardless who was his opponent and whatever skills the opponent possesed Finkelstein's demeanor during the discussion was utterly unprofessional and disrespectful to people in the studio and to those who was watching.

[@TheJessie1949]

And what was "Destiny's" demeanour? That of a little boy with no respect who didn't really know what he was talking about. When you have to continually stop and look up your next point on Wikipedia that is a slap in the face for any thinking person. He was out of his element and babbled like a little bully.

[@talmudovsky]

@@TheJessie1949 We are not discussing Destiny here. If Finkelstein could not tolerate or was unable to otherwise coup with "little boy" he could leave discussion without making everyone participating or watching such a bizarre and time wasting spectacle. I would submit that Finkelstein's behavior throughout the discussion was indicative of his personality and in the main predictable.

[@gomikuzu4545]

@@TheJessie1949 you can see from his notes he was mostly citing UN and ICJ. can you point to a specific part where he looked at wikipedia? waiting for you to either 1. not reply or 2. say "just watch the video!"

[@italia189]

@@gomikuzu4545 He scrolling through wikipedia. When Finkelstein asked him did you get this from wikipedia? Destiny didn't say anything. Also, what credential destiny has to debate Finkelstein on Palestine? LOL

[@gomikuzu4545]

@@italia189 u going to give me the timestamp for when he scrolled through wikipedia or what?

[@brehgankage6242]

I love Prof. Finkelstein. He is a legend.

[@thecreativeprocess-pureima3389]

The need for notes vs no notes.

[@hgp]

Mr. Vermicelli seemed to have failed the semester. 😂

[@Nihm420]

Then you didn't actually watch the debate.

[@hgp]

@@Nihm420 well, I did. The whole thing.

[@Nihm420]

@@hgp Then you saw that anytime Finkle was challenged by Destiny, he couldn't refute Destiny's facts, Finkle could only respond with insults.

[@renatopereira2315]

@@Nihm420 You mean every time Destiny oversimplified reality or regurgitated Israeli Hasbara Finkelstein called him what he is ? Yes. It was a joy to watch!

[@Nihm420]

@@renatopereira2315 Finkle demonstrated no knowledge on this topic. If he has any he certainly didn't use any of it here, and this video proves it. He was here for the troll. Benny Morris agreed with everything Destiny said.

[@juraj_b]

“Fantastic moron” became my favourite insult

[@porter9494]

America is a european country, however 6% of the population (blackmails) commits 52.6% of deletions, 33.3% of all a$$aults, 54.5% of all armed muggings, 29% of all grapes. It's not because of the poverty, it's part of their culture. It's what they are

[@belevezero2279]

his repeated use of 'imbecility' is still with me

[@asynchronicity]

Norm is uniquely great.

[@Caspruce]

Sad that a professor with 40+ years experience was made to look a fool by a wiki reading youtuber. Fink was unhinged.

[@faizandilawar4491]

For the idiots who are asking for an argument of how destiny was wrong. One example was where destiny calls Finkelstein a liar and talks about 4 kids coming out of a "previously identified hamas compound" and then were targetted by an IDF airstrike. To which Finkelstein said there were 10 scores of journalists there and it was some sort of a fishing ranch. First off even if they were coming out of a Hamas compound they were just kids 11 to 15 year olds that can be easily recognised how was it okay to target them even if they were radicalized? Is there no moral dilemma in targetting unarmed children without even knowing their intentions? Secondly Destiny made the point that the IDF are very precise and that air strikes are not done on an individual level rather multiple layers of acknowledgements and green lights are required to conduct an airstrike. Benny Morris said "you cant tell from that angle" well why the heck were they targetted for? How did the IDF give multiple green lights for the assasination of 4 children going out to maybe play football? How is anyone with remote contact to Hamas branded as a terrorist or a human shield? Destiny literally shot himself in the foot in this argument yet people are still sold by this prepubescent sophist.

[@klyesam4006]

OK but what did destiny say that was incorrect?

[@289dragonballz]

Did you just not read what he just said ?

[@cowpiekiller]

​@289dragonballz yes, he restated the incident and didn't say anything.

[@user-ng7og4ie3f]

Destiny is a lying fool, no context on his speech, About a week after he claimed the military has a chain of command to hit a target. 7 aid workers got killed. So kind of made his argument even more stupid as the facts already stated they bomb who they want,

[@Shabuyabuyabuya]

Norman went all in for Ad Hominem attacks, throughout the debate he barely even responded to the arguments of destiny. Even in this interview, he basically says that he does not want to legitimize destiny or debate him because he is a moron - I can't believe people actually like and listen to the guy. And by the way, for hamas, 11-15 year old children are old enough to hold a weapon and fight, so it is difficult to approach the situation when Children become soldiers and war support to militants (I'm saying it from the POV of an IDF soldier). Hamas doesn't see children in the same light as you and me do, how can Israel deal with that? Though I would say that any attack on civilians that wasn't done in a calculated manner with strong intelligence to support it should be heavily criticized, and of course investigated. (I will add that I'm sure that there were occasions israeli soldiers attacked civilians in a way that is abhorrent and unlawful, but I will mention that pro-palestinians do not differentiate between militants and unarmed/innocents civilians, so it doesnt matter who israel strikes, on pro-palestinian media it will come up as a war crime)

[@derekarnold3665]

Norman tells it the way it is.

[@rickbruintjes2393]

😂 50% of it is bullshit

[@rhetorical1488]

@@rickbruintjes2393 like 98% of what broccoli head says

[@derekarnold3665]

@@rickbruintjes2393 Yea but the other 50% makes sense.

[@lilSlowJoe]

he admits to trolling here, is this what make you cheer, pathetic

[@michealjaymurphy]

@@derekarnold3665 is that the part where he threatened a Mexican family with a knife

[@buttertandoorichicken]

I used to enjoy destiny mainly for his debates against racists back in the day. I did not expect that debate to happen

[@realblackman45]

It's still funny to me that they call him Destiny. I mean I get that's his online persona, but still. Marc had a debate/conversation with Destiny as well, so I'm not quite sure why he (Marc) didn't express that, ro give his thoughts on the experience

[@will9444555]

Norm's so salty that a schmuck who spent 3 months on Wikipedia came off better than he did in that debate

[@gojiplusone]

Norm Finkelstein is the only living person who can wield the "old man yells at clouds" energy for a good cause.

[@lilmoe4364]

He's not yelling at clouds though.. although when you debate such types as Destiny you might as well be

[@lurifaks92]

What was the good cause here though? he had a chance to use the knowledge he has accrued over his time studying and writing about this topic to prove some zionists wrong, but instead he just looked unhinged by resorting to name calling and didn't flex any of his knowledge.

[@Falroth]

​@@lilmoe4364 imagine being an expert who got manhandled by clouds

[@jacksonwilson7581]

You would think a scholar with 40 years of research going against a man with 3 months of research would’ve been able to show destiny’s ignorance on the topic by responding to direct claims rather than insulting him the entire time

[@conorryan3035]

It was one of the funniest exchanges I've heard in a long time

[@bryanwagner289]

The best person I’ve seen taking Destiny down a notch and have a direct answer to all of his points was actually Marc Lamont Hill.

[@raylax7056]

Marc wanted to teach Destiny, Destiny hadn't called Mark all sorts of absurd and unhinged names, he did do that to Norm which is why Norm was correct at not wasting a sec on addressing anything Destiny came close to saying b/c it wasn't worth his time, and Destiny couldn't make a point to save his life.

[@bryanwagner289]

@@raylax7056 yeah I agree with your assessment.

[@alekzgavriel-russo7453]

@@raylax7056 Norm drew first blood, he was always incredibly abrasive and that came into full view with the Lex Fridman debate where he openly just wastes everyones time including Rubbani's and Morris's because of his massive ego.

[@naweedock]

@@alekzgavriel-russo7453 destiny is the one wasting everyones time, thinking everyone will fall for his sophistry. that benny agrees with destiny doesn't give him any merit, it only points to the fall of a good historian who disagrees with his own facts because those writings cuts through the israeli propaganda. he agrees with that propaganda today which makes it look like old age affected his mental faculties to a degree that he can't recognize the cognitive dissonance. sad.

[@alekzgavriel-russo7453]

@@naweedock Im talking about conduct, its HIGHLY disrespectful to Morris and Rubanni for Finkelstein to just troll the conversation when they both wanted to take it seriously. Its an absolutely cuntish thing to do, especially as an 'academic' to fellow academics.