Why Did Ocelot's Gun Jam in Metal Gear Solid 3?

Рет қаралды 11,547

Күн бұрын

We take a look at an iconic scene from Metal Gear Solid 3 where Ocelot's PM jams and is lectured by Snake, thus leading Ocelot to adopt his signature single action revolver to avoid future jams.
We discuss several real world firearm malfunctions such as failure to feed, out of battery, stove pipe jams and squib loads.
Music by Mike Dubre
Video Credits to theKGB65, Legally Armed America and ONE on ONE Firearms
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Пікірлер: 61

@daedelous7094 2 жыл бұрын

So basically. Ocelot's hand obstructed the ejection of the bullet he left in the chamber, when he didn't even need to rack the slide.

@RoninFoxSpeaks 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, that would be the SparkNotes version However the scene in MGSV that references this moment accurately depicts a jam due to the shooting technique that Snake described

@RussianFloofer 2 жыл бұрын

Came looking for an explanation, stayed for informative information on gun jams.

@RoninFoxSpeaks 2 жыл бұрын

Nice

@shane7051 Жыл бұрын

"informative information" That's like saying wet water

@carlosj587 Жыл бұрын

Thanks, im leaving before this ad is over lol

@Neochrono 29 күн бұрын

So you came, and stayed for the same thing?

@khatdubell 2 жыл бұрын

"his explanation is accurate but doesn't make sense" Got to keep in mind these games are made by people who live in a (almost completely) gun free society. Yes, they flew overseas to be able to learn, handle, and use the guns for the game, but i wouldn't expect them to have the same level of knowledge as you clearly do.

@RoninFoxSpeaks 2 жыл бұрын

Frankly its a really common problem whenever they hire any kind of experts to advise writers, something will be lost in the process. If I remember correctly, the original Japanese script was more accurate but was changed when translated to English. If anything these videos shouldn't be viewed as criticism rather as something for fans who want to learn a little bit more about it and appreciate the attention to detail that the creators put into their work

@1810jeff Жыл бұрын

Also keep in mind these are things being translated from Kojima in Japanese to people who speak English then writing down their interpretation of how Kojima thinks things work. That's how you get phrases like "procure on site"

@jekblom123 10 ай бұрын

I don't know, they described the jam and demonstrated it pretty clearly. Kojima or someone had to have a specialist to advise with.

@khatdubell 10 ай бұрын

@@jekblom123 In the game they explain that it was ocelot interfering with the cycling of the gun by trying to avoid the recoil that caused the jam, but in this video he is saying that while that can happen, that isn't what happened here. He saying it was because of how he blocked the breech when racking the slide. The dialogue for the game was probably written years before the actual scene was made in-game. It probably changed at some point in production, but they kept the mismatch in.

@yesimrealhuman4245 Жыл бұрын

to sum it up: the PM "makarov" pistol relies on recoil to chamber a new round (direct blowback), so if there is no recoil or if it is metigated with quick hand movements your firearm may jam

@Gojiro7 17 күн бұрын

4:28 thats not just some guy doing a recreation, thats Kenichi "Tornado" Yoshida, the man they used to act as essentially the motion capture (or reference) just for Ocelots gun tricks in all the MGS games and he really does all those insane tricks ocelot does in the games in real life, including the gun fire juggling

@snithnorddarthbathrobe6928 Жыл бұрын

Nice kentucky ballistics reference

@thezman9001 2 жыл бұрын

Holy crap thank you! I was loosing it over this, never realized just how painfully cocky he was

@XanthosAcanthus 2 жыл бұрын

Another thing to note is that the magazine in a makarov is a heel release, so there should be no seating issue to consider. It's either in or it isn't. That being said, can we talk about how he tried to load and fire a 9mm makarov round in a 45lc saa with what looks like a shit ton of tape to make it fit? Even if it fired im not sure there'd be sufficient pressure to even be lethal. Why you do stupid things ocelot? It's almost as if you were some sort of double agent deliberately trying to mess up. Jeez smh

@KitsuneYashaX48 2 ай бұрын

I'm a little late here (a little???), but to be fair, while Snake does mention the recoil grip, he doesn't say that's why the gun jammed - he says that's why Ocelot shouldn't be using automatics. He says his grip and recoil control is "more of a revolver technique." He oddly doesn't really explain why the gun jammed at all. "You ejected the first bullet by hand, didn't you? I see what you were trying to do. But testing a technique you've only heard about in the middle of battle wasn't very smart. You were asking to have your gun jam on you. Besides, I don't think you're cut out for an automatic in the first place. You tend to twist your elbow to absorb the recoil. That's more of a revolver technique."

@roofkorean6948 Жыл бұрын

His gun jammed because he tried Israeli carry and Israeli carry is stupid. Israeli carry sort of made since in its military context back when it was first adopted because there were so many different manual of arms being used that they felt it was better just to get everyone on the same page and carry without one in the chamber. Some people's guns had safeties, some didn't, some had different type of safety, or different operation altogether, etc. So they figured the best choice was to have everyone carry without one in the chamber and then you'd chamber a round once you're ready to shoot. The problem is you loose valuable seconds in a gunfight and I've seen videos of people getting shot because of Israeli carry. Fast forward to today, with modern firearms it's not necessary. As long as you have a proper retention holster like kydex that covers the trigger guard completely then they're safe to carry (except for maybe the Sig P320 which seems to have a mind of its own). Ocelot however already had a round in the chamber so it wasn't true Israeli carry, I think he was just testing out the technique itself.

@commander31able60 16 күн бұрын

"Israeli Carry" existed long before the state of Israel, and still is the doctrinal carry mode for Russian soldiers and LEOs issued pistols. Ocelot wasn't so much trying a new technique as simply loading in a way he trained to do as per Soviet handgun shooting standards.

@roofkorean6948 15 күн бұрын

@@commander31able60 Very true. I think what snake was implying was that that he could tell it was something Ocelot hadn't tried before and was testing it out in actual combat, which isn't a good idea. "You were asking to have your gun jam". The technique itself my not have been a new thing, but it was new to Ocelot. Really shows how overconfident young Ocelot was.

@Marto_dj Жыл бұрын

i love that this game it's a vivid dream for gun virgins like me

@SSJFro Ай бұрын

It's so odd that they had the elbow twisting as an excuse for Ocelot's gun jam right there, they could have said 'that' was why his gun jammed. Why make it about his hand covering the slide while ejecting a round? Was it about embarrassing Ocelot? A way to salt the wound? As if to say "you didn't just get unlucky, if your gun didn't jam the way it did, it would have probably jammed this other way, you're not very good"

@RoninFoxSpeaks Ай бұрын

I'd say it really is to narratively establish that snake/big boss is very competent and on another level than Ocelot despite the talent that Ocelot showed off

@valienpire 2 жыл бұрын

finally an answer that makes sense, thank you!

@victoria-renevazquez3652 3 жыл бұрын

thank you for saving me from myself

@HeyyyJude Жыл бұрын

i know absolutely nothing about guns but this was fun to listen and learn from. keep it up!

@RoninFoxSpeaks Жыл бұрын

Honestly thats how a lot of guys get into guns

@beans7675 4 ай бұрын

Getting into guns is really simple tbh,decent way to start would be getting solid but basic training from an expert instructor, they really help with understanding the whole topic

@NOMM4DER Жыл бұрын

Great work, love this and the EZ gun vid. When are you going to do the Patriot? Here's what I got at the moment "The idea that a 5.56/.223 can tumble near immediately after leaving the barrel (while causing such significant damage to cause the explosion of a plane) is wild. From trying to look up just maybe how the heck this could be achieved, along with my own speculations, is as follows. 7.5" to 10.5" barrel with no rifling or an exaggerated rifle twist rate (I don't even know where to start with this), using M885 cartridge, apparently these were designed for 20" to 18" barrels, I'm guessing it's the weight of the bullet that causes them to go haywire, but then maybe just a heavier bullet like pure lead would work better or maybe go completely opposite and have a super light bullet like aluminum, maybe even drill holes into the tip and the opposite end of the bullet so it catches the wind and tumbles like how some wind chimes have holes in them to create whistling sounds, maybe the bullets are made out of something completely different like some fiber alloy like in that episode (which the name of it is eluding me) "The Shooter". Now writing this I'm starting to think there's probably more powder/propellant in the cartridges to get the bullets to go "mach 5" sooner and having little barrel length with no rifling or too much, there's hardly any stabilization of the bullet." (I just recopied a comment I left on "Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater HD Cutscenes - Snake Ambushed by The Boss") What do you think?

@RoninFoxSpeaks Жыл бұрын

Lol dude you read my mind I specifically wanted to talk about the Patriot and its tumbling bullets. Keyholing is usually caused by rifling problems and I think it was also said that rifling was the problem but you're right that a higher velocity bullet would also cause similar tumbling, considering the game takes place in the early 60s I'd consider M193 to be the main ammo The M231 machine gun is really similar to the Patriot but it was only meant to shoot M856 tracers

@user-ko5ul7yi1x 10 ай бұрын

I want an explanation on the 2nd meeting where Ocelot used a revolver for the 1st time but it still wouldn't fire.

@RoninFoxSpeaks 10 ай бұрын

The game already explained it in that scene. Ocelot ran out of ammo since the SAA only holds 6 shots while the Makarov holds 8+1

@user-ko5ul7yi1x 10 ай бұрын

@@RoninFoxSpeaksOh right, I watched that scene again. Snake must've heard the 6 shots when entering the scene to a hostaged Eva and her weapon's holstered. Then he saw Ocelot's fancy SA, its chambers and finally read the situation.

@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443 Жыл бұрын

Ive found most feed jams to be caused by damaged magazine feed lips.

@user763-k5t Жыл бұрын

But WHY Ocelot is doing it when he still have bullet in the chamber? Is only to be sure that gun is loaded because he cant count? (Can be because he is triple agent and his guns are always changing and he is not used to bullet count of each? Or maybe he want be sure bc he can have shell stuck because he twisting the elbow and can acidentally prevent the recoil and functioning/ciclyng?)

@daxia0 Жыл бұрын

He is doing it because he is a showoff and inexperienced, no way you would ask this if you played the games, he was just trying to be cool, his revolvers had engravings etc etc, after Snake puts him into place he matures and in MGS V, Ocelot sees a soldier in mother base on shooting practice doing the same mistakes and unnecessary showing off Ocelot himself did years ago in MGS 3, automatic pistol but tries to do a revolver draw and tries to dampen the recoil, engravings on the gun, Ocelot says the same things to that soldier Snake told him in MGS 3. His actions in MGS 3 didnt really have thought or tactics in them before Snake shows him his mistakes.

@alexthebox9897 Жыл бұрын

It’s based off a strategy originating from the Middle East where it is considered better to always rack the slide just in case because having one less round when firing is considered a better outcome then forgetting to rack the gun and not firing at all

@AICW Жыл бұрын

@@alexthebox9897 That's not really why. The term is called Israeli Carry and it's because in the early formative days of the State of Israel, the Israeli Defense Forces had to scramble to get their hands on as many weapons as possible and they ended up with a huge hodgepodge of guns from all over the world. Since so many pistols have different operating procedures when it comes to having safeties or not, they instituted a hard rule that everyone carry with an empty chamber to make sure everyone would rack before firing and also to ensure all pistols are drop-safe (about a decade ago a gun magazine writer, Steve Malloy, accidentally shot himself and died when he dropped a really old Colt 1903 .32 ACP pistol at home and it shot him in the chest when it hit the floor). The rule continues to the present day, even after the IDF has long standardized their equipment because of unsurprisingly, army bureaucratic inertia.

@solidv2 Жыл бұрын

I have the exact same question. Snake also comments on him trying to mimic something. I guess you could say it was a bad habit ( since he has done the same thing just before)

@Visceral66 Жыл бұрын

Guns also jam for limp wristing it, just noticed you mention that too lol

@RoninFoxSpeaks Жыл бұрын

Yeah the game described it as if limp wrist caused the jam but it really was Ocelot's messed up Israeli draw but this was accurately depicted in the call back cutscene with Ocelot in MGSV

@MatosandFrancisProd Жыл бұрын

What I wonder about to this day is why did Ocelot manually eject a bullet before he started shooting, what is the believed benefit of doing that?

@RoninFoxSpeaks Жыл бұрын

What I think they were referring to in the game was Israeli carry where they carry with an empty chamber and rack before shooting but Ocelot ended up causing a malfunction because he still had a round in the chamber This is one of the many reasons people say not to carry like this

@MatosandFrancisProd Жыл бұрын

@@RoninFoxSpeaks So is it just him forgetting that there was one in the chamber and racking a bullet in out of habit?

@RoninFoxSpeaks Жыл бұрын

@@MatosandFrancisProd That's exactly what happened. There's a radio call you can do with Paramedic just after the cutscene where Snake explains how Ocelot was being cocky by trying out a technique in battle without practicing it

@AICW Жыл бұрын

@@RoninFoxSpeaks Yeah, The Truth About Guns blog had a big blog post about Israeli Carry earlier this year and the commenters were fighting it out in the comments section over "NOOO EMPTY CHAMBER CARRY WILL GET YOU KILLED IN THE STREETS" which I have to admit they convinced me of.

@RoninFoxSpeaks Жыл бұрын

@@AICW I was the same; I used to think that the likelihood of an accident was greater than the chance of actually drawing, but frankly if you lack a quality holster, the confidence and training to avoid an ND then you shouldn't be carrying a gun in public anyway; the reality is that attackers don't give you warning to ready yourself so carrying a weapon that isn't ready defeats the point of carrying it in the first place