Why Did Penn Central Fail?

[@RailAceProd8501]

You forgot to include that Penn Cemtral was also forced to acquire the bankrupt New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad.

[@armandoperez7967]

PC should have never happened.

[@gregoryhainsworth2663]

It should have been NYC-C&O-B&O and PRR-N&W

[@dknowles60]

Force by the Fed Gov

[@corduerorose9747]

The leagues of doom took over penn central but the justice league saved it under the name of conrail until 1997

[@PennCentral2303]

Hey how dare u disrespect my Penn Central trains

[@orvillemeek6893]

Nice presentation about a subject I hadn't thought about in 50 years...I was a young man with 2 years of college under my belt but wasn't sure about what I really wanted to do so I began looking at other options...I was hired by Penn Central in Columbus, Ohio in the summer of 1972 and was employee number 720081...I was a trainman and worked in both southern Ohio and into West Virginia as well as Findlay, Ohio and Toledo at "The WIP"...on my first trip as a "student brakeman" we were on "the ground" twice due to extremely poor track conditions...in my short railroad career I bet I was involved in 30 or more derailments...at any rate, after about a year of railroading in Ohio I returned to Montana and after finishing a Forestry Degree at U of M ended up in the construction industry and enjoyed a long interesting career...as an aside, I nearly took a trainman position with The Milwaukee Road in Montana in 1974 but realized they were feeling lots of economic pressure and decided to stick with school...

[@RM2206OH]

Wow that's a story it's always nice to hear from people who have experienced the railroad first hand.

[@TrainLover-wt9ix]

I kind of feel bad for Penn Central, but they just shit themselves in the foot MANY times. I could image if it DID become the big railroad it was suppose to be.

[@RM2206OH]

Yeah but at least we got Conrail lol

[@Joe-d7m6k]

This seems to make a case against mergers,but since PC,-- all we have had is mergers.

[@dustbowlhammer7119]

Other railroads watched and learned, the strong survived lol.

[@discodave4190]

Other factors - incompatible computer systems, industrial decline in most of Penn Central's service area, two different corporate cultures ("Green Team" - NYC vs."Red Team" (PRR). The book "Wreck of the Penn Central" is an excellent account of reasons for Penn Central's bankruptcy.

[@dknowles60]

90% fault of the Prr Management

[@discodave4190]

@@dknowles60 How did you come up with the "90%" number??? Nothing I've read about the Penn Central merger attributed 90% of its failure to the Pennsylvania Railroad. Yes, from what I've read, the New York Central was a somewhat better operated and managed railroad, but not so much better that 90% of the blame can be placed on the Pennsylvania Railroad. Furthermore, as noted in the comments, forcing inclusion of the New Haven into Penn Central was a significant factor leading to bankruptcy, but not the Pennsylvania Railroad's fault. However, if you want to point me to a credible on-line source which quantifies your 90% claim, feel free to do so.

[@dknowles60]

@@discodave4190 Thats is because you are very young its simple the Prr yhad been broke since the End of WW2, it needed its N&W RR stock dividends ti get but, The Prr was a very Costly RR to run, Helpers needed over house shoe curve inter locking towers every 20 miles that need men and women 24/7/365 needed more loco motives to get a train from NYC to Chicago, the NYC got the Job done with 2 gp 40 to get the same job done the NYC more 75% OF THE tRAFFIC AS THE prr DID WITH 75% LESS track , look at the map today over 75% of the PRR gone west of pitts burg Pa, John fishwick one of the best rr ceo in the Us and CEO of the N&W did not want the PRR rail road.

[@discodave4190]

@@dknowles60 1) NOTHING in your reply provides any QUANTITATIVE proof that NINETY percent of Penn Central bankruptcy can be attributed to the Pennsylvania Railroad. 2) You FAIL to account for the difference in traffic between the PRR and NYC when highlighting the extra locomotives and staffing needed to run trains from the East to the Midwest. 3) You IGNORED the bit about the New Haven being forced into the Penn Central. 4) Without ANY evidence, you ARROGANTLY assume that I am young. I am 66 and have lived in Penn Central territory (ex-NYC and ex-PRR) from 1968 to 1975 and currently live in ex-PRR territory. I have a good knowledge of the causes of the Penn Central bankruptcy from multiple sources, including the book "Wreck of the Penn Central" which is the one of the best sources of information about why the merger failed. I continued to monitor the Northeastern railroad scene with the establishment of Conrail (which required a good understanding of Penn Central's failings. Later, I drafted comments for my employer on the Draft Environmental Impact Statement for the Norfolk Southern/CSX takeover of Conrail. These comments were submitted to the Surface Transportation Board. 5) Lastly, how many "young" people would know about the book, "Wreck of the Penn Central.." It's really bizarre that you think I am "young."

[@dknowles60]

the NYC was a lot better. i have pointed out the Facts. not much of the PRR is left today that speaks for its self. when one of the Best run Rail roads at the Time the N&W rr did not want the Prr that says it all. no one in PRR management ever went on to become CEO's of other rail roads, , That is how Bad the PRR management was, now 3 people in management from the NYC went on to be come CEO's of the Mp rr the Uprr the WPRR. that says it all

[@cris_261]

It also did not help that as a condition of the merger, PC had to include the bankrupt New Haven in its system.

[@RM2206OH]

I forgot to mention that

[@cris_261]

@@RM2206OH no worries. There's a lot of things that brought down Penn Central.

[@bukasb]

penn central baby, greatest railroad to exist - rodney kantorski

[@B-and-O-Operator-Fairmont]

Penn Central probably could have been successful had it happened in the post-Staggers Act era. Indeed, Conrail implemented a lot of the PC plan in the better regulatory environment of the 1980s. PC also didn't help its cause by "diversification" into other ventures. And PRR wasn't operating any steamers in the 1960s.

[@dknowles60]

that was the NCY Plan. over 60% of the PRR west of Pittsburg pa gone

[@brendenoneill3068]

The Penn Central road was the Greater Pennsylvania Railroad the PRR swallowed the NYC and made Greater Pennsy but the NYC was in the end the healthier network.

[@michaelsmiley15]

If you look at railroad infrastructure and who finance what company and how it was actually built There was never a long term plan to adapt the railroad to work around the highway system The men the wanted to make money with railroads did not see a future beyond the auto mobile The Japanese started experimenting with high speed rail in 1964 That 60 years ago and the US is just now launching high speed rail in certain area's

[@dknowles60]

it was the Prr that never Had a Plan to work around the High way System, the NYC got a TV train From new york city to Chicago in 18 hours, the Prr could never do it

[@johnthechoochooaddict796]

At least Metro North gave us the MNCR 217 in the Penn Central livery!

[@DamionJTrains]

W Video from the goat

[@svenmartin840]

Here's my situation the New York Central and the New Haven should merged with the Norfolk and Western. And then the Pennsylvania should have merged with the Chessie System. Then the New Haven would become an independent system by 1976. And they would have merged with the Jersey Central and the Reading, Erie merges with the Canadian national. Lehigh Valley merges with the Norfolk Western and New York Central

[@MP_67_Productions]

Wait until Aiden finds this video

[@user-vh1uc6in7b]

The trains is a long time ago at 80s 90s.

[@minnesotarailfan12]

1960s and 70s more like

[@lennyhendricks4628]

Over regulation certainly didn't help. US RR's really turned around after the Staggers Act deregulated the rails. Forced inclusion of the New Haven was like throwing a drowning man a boat anchor instead of a lifeline.

[@mamarussellthepie3995]

Ever seen. . . *since*

[@Galaxy2517]

Just another sign...of the decline.

[@91_C4_FL]

The NYC and Milwaukee Road should’ve merged. Almost no route overlap, both with heavy electrification, and it would’ve been a transcontinental line.

[@dknowles60]

the Milwaukee road would killed the ncy

[@91_C4_FL]

@@dknowles60 How?

[@dknowles60]

@@91_C4_FL the Milwaukee was in very Poor shape in 1966, the NYC had every thing . Ctc Double track lots of brand new or rebuilt hump yards lots od steel mill and auto plant shipers, the Milwaukee at best had 2 hump yards very little CTC very bad grades that needed helper distracts a very high cost rail road to run the NYC had more trains in 1 day from nyc to Chicago then the Milwaukee ran from chicago to the state wa in a week, no what the nyc needed was the Fed Gov to Stop the Merger

[@orbitsrailfanvids]

1:57 ping

[@Conrail76]

It failed because it was garbage!

[@dknowles60]

no Failed because of the Fed Gov, the NYC was making Money, the PRR had been losing Money since the End of WW2