Why Does Persona Overshadow SMT?

Shin Megami Tensei V was my most anticipated release of 2021. Unfortunately, however, that sentiment wasn't as strong with many Atlus fans, considering Persona 5 Strikers, a spinoff of a spinoff series, has been selling at a comparable pace since its worldwide release earlier in the same year.
While SMT 5 didn’t bomb by any means and Vengeance is on the way, it's led me to wonder how things turned out this way. In this video, I go on a deep dive of the series' history in an effort to piece together a comprehensive list of reason why Persona overshadows SMT.
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:56 Series Origins
1:38 Series Title
2:24 Sales
2:59 Persona 3
3:52 Post-Persona 3 And Relatability
5:46 Essence of Persona
7:45 Persona 5
8:50 What's next for SMT?
Music:
Jouin High School - SMT V OST
Micorn & Departure - Megami Tensei 1 OST
Talk - Edifice - SMT V OST
Burn My Dread - Persona 3 OST
Pursuing My True Self - Persona 4 OST
Phantom - Persona 5 OST
Tokyo - Dawn - Shin Megami Tensei V OST
Channel: / @choicental
Twitter: x.com/Choicental

[@Choicental]

Timestamps and music are in the description! This is my first video, so any feedback, advice, ideas, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks for reading Channel: kzbin.info/door/CI7_gsp0EPwunViH4kPAAQ Twitter: x.com/Choicental

[@jessielsanchez5079]

We gotta give Persona props though, because now mainline SMT is growing much larger. I mean, look at how excited the people were for Nocturne HD and look how SMT V Vengeance is doing at the moment. This is also backed up by the fact that it’s multi platform this time around (fucking finally). Regardless, Persona will always sell more due to its aesthetics, its characters, its stories, their messages… and overall it’s more relatable and approachable for casual audiences. Which is a huge reason as to why Persona is also so loved by western fans, as opposed to SMT, that is still pretty niche over here (though it’s now growing).

[@GameTimeNLL]

True. But sadly this also brings bad with it. 2 of persona 5 spinoffs could have easily been megaten games. Strikers couldve been devil summoner raidou and tactica couldve easily been a devil survivor game. But it gets a p5 coat because it will sell better. Which is a shame imo.

[@ReinzTheKing]

​@@GameTimeNLL Cope, SMT fans.

[@HEADASSLOOKINGAHHH]

@@GameTimeNLL For real, miss the devil survivor games.

[@HEADASSLOOKINGAHHH]

@@ReinzTheKing he's got a point though.

[@GameTimeNLL]

@@ReinzTheKing just here to spread negativity?

[@sals6]

I'll stop you right there and say from the onset Persona was always designed to be more popular than SMT. They outright state that when developing Persona 3 and 4 that they made it to bring mainstream audiences into their rpg series.

[@Choicental]

Really? I didnt know they straight up said that. It makes sense though

[@xbon1]

Can’t just make claims like that without proof

[@Kingdom850]

Need a source on that. It's widely known that they developed P3 with the intention that it could be their last game as they were on the verge of bankruptcy. Mainstream appeal could be an intention they had too, but they had no way of knowing if it would truly land or not during development.

[@maxmanchik]

​@@Kingdom850Yeah. It's also very noticeable considering how different and unique P3 is compared to P1 and P2. Like, they really went all out with P3

[@haridojamaru829]

They were made to feel grounded and make the player feel related to the player which was the aspect that was added to smt v so you are wrong there

[@KamenKami]

Because Persona fans can't live in a world and STRENGTH, and feel bad when a demon eats their mom. Jokes aside. Persona by design, was made to be easier to digest.

[@Choicental]

As easy as it is for demons to digest their moms?

[@KamenKami]

@@Choicental Yes. Should it happen, one should "try not to feel too bad".

[@ubel_bruv]

you mean to tell me that persona is shallow compared to smt?

[@isgamer-8732]

​@ubel_bruv on a story level, no. On a philosophy level, yes.

[@Tenebris8444]

Persona is a social sim. Smt is a philosophical debate that many can't even understand through the constant arguments around each stories​@@ubel_bruv

[@ZSleepingDragonZ]

I'll give you an example of another game franchise that perfectly illustrated why Persona is more popular than SMT...Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem was a niche franchise that fans loved for its strategy and difficulty...like SMT. But it was selling really poorly until Intelligent Systems changed its formula: adding a casual mode that disables permanent death and a relationship system like social links that promotes character interaction. You can say Fire Emblem "Persona-fied" itself to be way more appealing to the general public.

[@Choicental]

Pretty much. I mentioned it briefly in the vid, but you explain it way better than I was able to

[@orangejuice8279]

The interesting thing about Fire Emblem is that the mechanics that helped it appeal to a wider audience were already in the series before it became as popular as it is now, character relationships were a thing since FE4 and casual mode was added in FE12. That being said, Awakening still made itself beginner friendly with the ability to level grind and being fairly easy by FE standards, so it’s not too big of a surprise that Awakening was the one to save the series

[@Ty-cx5zj]

@@Choicentalthis is funny cause SMT has a game that a blend of the two even with fire emblem elements which is Devil survivor. I’m surprised they never revived that game.

[@infinitedreamer9359]

@@Ty-cx5zj Yeah I do think that if Atlus wanted mainline SMT to be a bit more personable to appeal more to the mainstream,drawing more from from the DS series(DS1 especially) is the way to go. It was a good compromise as while it still held the general spirit of mainline SMT about about choosing an ideology and exploring the pros/cons,it was wrapped up in much more personable story and characters that weren't just mouthpieces for the alignment system. Hell,if they wanted to do a psuedo-social link system without turning it into a Persona-clone,doing it like DS2 did wouldn't be a bad thing That or make another strategy series based off it. It's been too long for DS3.

[@Ty-cx5zj]

@@infinitedreamer9359 I need a new DS game so bad it was so good.

[@jesusceren1594]

Seeing how well SMTVV is doing (1.6 million on first week), I think more people will jump on mainline SMT as time goes on.

[@Choicental]

Woah, yeah that sounds like a series record. That’s more than P4 Golden’s steam release and I remember that being huge. I think there might be a lot of people who emulate the games on PC so now that 5 is on steam it’s probably blowing up

[@kakkossolttu3511]

I'm pretty sure that's just the sales of the original release or maybe the combined sales of the two but Vengeance itself seems to have only about 500k+ sales in the first 3 days which is still a very very very good start, definitely helps that it got a release on all main platforms.

[@Tenebris8444]

1.6m is the combined. 500k is the current sales of smt vv in 3 days since release

[@kaidene573]

@@kakkossolttu3511the og sold like 180k first week, so smt vv could easily pass 2 million

[@Angry_Jetpack]

Ultimately, I think Persona and mainline SMT are two separate fanbases. People like Persona for the characters, stories that hold life lessons, and calendar system. People like SMT for the expendability of demons, freedom of choice, and really dark stories with multiple endings that aren’t ever really confirmed to be canon, making it all a self-determined story. They both have their own appeals and, despite holding the same roots, have managed to turn into different game series’ entirely. I think Persona is meant to be more approachable for a lot of reasons, while SMT is meant to be the devs not holding back on their initial vision of what they wanted the series to be. I think it’s really cool how incredibly bold SMT as a series is. There’s never really a good ending where everything is resolved and nothing bad will happen ever again. Typically, people die and bad things happen regardless of what you do. Meanwhile, Persona DOES have bad endings, but there’s ALWAYS a good ending. One where the main storyline is resolved and everyone can go back to their normal lives. I personally prefer that, but I’m not opposed to SMT’s approach at all. Like I said, I think the SMT and Persona fanbases are separate and different because their respective game series’ are separate and different. I just think that’s cool. There’s not really a point to this comment other than sharing my thoughts on this.

[@jonnybravo595]

I like both, but honestly, I like almost everything Atlus make

[@Rman1228]

Even though SMT may not be as popular as Persona (for now, I think a lot of people really seem to like SMTVV) the best thing Persona did was take the burden of being the sales and mainstream leader off of SMT. So now SMT can focus on what it does best without having to worry as much about selling well. It's really starting to pay off and I'm glad to see it

[@GameTimeNLL]

Tho I highly doubt Atlus is a company to keep providing fan loved projects if they dont really sell. Their recent dlc plans kinda show that they are pretty much focussing on just making money. (Probably because sega bought the company)

[@happygofishing]

Persona overshadowed SMT because SMT was stuck on shitty handhelds since the PS2, this may change now that they are both multiplatform.

[@Choicental]

I think SMT sales will increase but I don’t expect expect them to match Persona. I have friends who regard SMT the same way they do Persona 1 and 2. That “I want to play it someday but probably never will” zone

[@happygofishing]

@@Choicental yeah but the chance of people playing it is much greater now that the games are not on the 3DS lmao.

[@Choicental]

Yeah I’m optimistic. Someone in the comments said SMT 5 Vengeance sold 1.6 million in the first week which is the most of any SMT game

[@happygofishing]

@@Choicental SMT VI is looking bright.

[@kakkossolttu3511]

@@Choicental I believe that's the combined sales of both the version or just the original but SMTV:V is still definitely proving itself to be a huge success, reportedly 500k+ sales in first 3 days and pretty much everyone (journalist, new and old fans) is keeping it in high regard with it's upgraded yet familiar mechanics and an all improved story. I'm very hopeful that with this early success Vengeance is having and all the hype surrounding Metaphor, Atlus and Sega are ready to place more money on the 1st and 3rd creative studios so that we may possibly get new entries that aren't in development hell and maybe even remakes or atleast modern rereleases of their other entries like Digital Devil Saga and SMT4/4A.

[@shinobuu__]

Personally, I like Persona more because of 1. Setting: not just the highschool, but it takes place in a setting that allows for some relax time whereas in SMT it always seems like stakes are 100% all the time with no rest in the story 2. Its more character driven since you are building a bond with the characters which I feel is more fun than it being a solo journey 3. The music is banger 4. The artstyle is just more appealing to me

[@Choicental]

I like that first point. If they made the save points at least a bit more relaxing that could be cool without impacting the difficulty of the game

[@grandmasteryoda2605]

this guy gets it. some people don't WANT to turn the intensity to 11 and have a super hard challenge with no story. It's the same thing that people who play Elden Ring think about people who don't want to play it: "oh its just too hard for you". That's even why some people I know don't want to play Yakuza or SSBU, they want Mario Kart or Stardew Valley. Violent, combat-centered games aren't their deal.

[@Lin_Eileen]

@@grandmasteryoda2605 SMT doesn't have "no story" just because the stakes are always high and it's challenging. Tell me you've never played an SMT game without telling me you've never played an SMT game 😂

[@GameTimeNLL]

Honestly smt music bangs infinitely harder than persona music imo.

[@goodeygoody]

I understand everything other than the music point and the fact that the art styles are quite literally the same. If you said aesthetic/ ui style, then yes, I would have to agree with you depending on the time of day. And on the point of music, SMT music slaps just as hard if not more in some cases. I understand it’s a subjective opinion, but give Meguro some credit when it comes to SMT. I’d love to put you onto some of SMT’s hits. They’re definitely a different vibe, but SMT’s music is great, nonetheless.

[@Felix-ic1fc]

Persona: power of friendship Shin megami tensei: just you and your army of angels,demons and deities

[@exmerion]

I like that SMT games are Post- apocalypse and Persona games are Pre-apocalypse. I enjoy the mind-fuck SMT plots and also the cozy Persona plots.

[@Choicental]

Yeah it’s nice to be able to play both now that SMT is healthy again. The droughts of SMT content can be rough tho

[@koutakossuth8179]

I like both persona and mainline, but the combat of 3 and VV is why i keep coming back.

[@bubbletea_]

it goes over a lot of people's heads that soul hackers 2 did experiment with a good amount of the ideas that the persona fan base wanted. talking protagonist, female protagonist, all adult cast, essentially social links with a more adult aesthetic, story choices that affect points with your friends. it came out to lower than expected sales and pretty mediocre reception though. i think a lot of people have a tendency to say they really want something, but it becomes a very fleeting enjoyment once they do get it. like how people really wanted a new pokemon snap game but the hype for it only lasted a short time.

[@Choicental]

Good point. Not just with Atlus, but with media in general, it seems people think they want certain things but actually don’t, and oftentimes the most successful products take off because they provide things that people didn’t know they ever wanted

[@pyxelpub8251]

It seems the common section in this video has completely overlooked. One of the most significant reasons why persona will always outsell shin Megami. I agree with many of the points you mentioned, but without equal the most important point is marketability . Yes, persona has social links and a chill vibe going on, but it’s more than that. SMT is without equal one of the most blasphemous franchises out there. For example, in Saudi Arabia, Pokémon is not allowed because some Pokémon look “Satanic”. Now imagine a game about religion and Satan himself. SMT five is one of the best games I have ever played period, but I cannot recommend this game to half the people I know. A 15-year-old can play persona and enjoy it despite the fact that it says rated M for mature, but the very nature of SMT means it will forever be accessible to the majority of gamers out there. A game that is about making friends and social links is by nature More accessible as a result. I mean, one game is about joining your friends to kill Demons, and the other is about joining demons to kill your friends. Which one sounds like it’s gonna have a larger audience.

[@Choicental]

Good point. I wasn’t sure whether or not to include it because you can still fuse and control entities like Satan in Persona as well

[@hanzoY248]

Don't forget that Yahweh the god for half the worlds population is portrayed as a demon lol

[@Azure_Of_the_masquerade]

Very well put together video keep up the good work

[@Choicental]

Thanks!

[@LucaFrancesca]

Tbf I much prefer the SMT gameplay and flow than the Persona one. But I see your point. Good video :)

[@Choicental]

Thanks!

[@TheChuck181]

It really does flow way better. Much more fun per minute imo.

[@im_justin_u9493]

I got an idea to make SMT mainstream all they need to do is to bring back the buddy system from SMT 4 but only taken up by waifus who represent law, chaos, and neutral. Whatever route you pick is the goddess who will create a new world with you.

[@degapalgamer3772]

This one!

[@noblegalifreyan4551]

Dude you need to get over the waifu bait and think with your actual head.

[@im_justin_u9493]

@@noblegalifreyan4551 it’s not for me I don’t need the waifus it’s for the masses and SMT is filled with waifus regardless cleopatra, idun, ame no uzume, pixie

[@xzb7644]

Why hasn’t Atlus hired you yet?

[@im_justin_u9493]

@@xzb7644 they actually sent me a job offer imma work on the story for shin megami tensei V:2 miyazu is the new neutral rep

[@urdatninja]

Honestly great first video, I like how you mentioned relatability and I think that: 1. that's precisely what gets most people into the persona series. 2. persona fans simply don't bother to give smt a chance, and if they do it's not what they expect because they want more of persona, I feel like not many people can appreciate smt's themes. In spite of how great the smt games may be they simply do not appeal like the persona games do. (ashamed to say that I've only played smt3 and only recently that I've heard of smtv getting a new dlc that I want to try it out, I probably can't be considered a smt fan but my renewed interest in the series makes me want to see more of it and I can only hope more people give it a shot)

[@Choicental]

Thanks for watching! I appreciate the feedback. No need to feel ashamed! I think as long as you enjoyed your time with SMT 3 and hold an interest in the series, you can consider yourself a fan. And if not, everyone has their preferences and it's just the way things are meant to be

[@digimonlover1632]

SMT doesn’t appeal to me simply due to how minimal most stories and characters are. It heavily focuses on the gameplay with that gameplay being tough for newcomers to me as well. Persona is just more fun to me gameplay wise because it’s much more easier and approachable in comparison and I honestly feel I’m still challenged(yes, I’m serious). I love that it focuses a lot on characters and stories as well and I feel it gives a good balance unlike something like SMT. I also don’t care much for its edginess. The only thing that’s interesting to me is the alignment system and how the point of it is to show that there’s no right answer for reshaping the world but writers proceed to make them biased as hell from the videos I saw on them(Poor law guys).

[@urdatninja]

@@digimonlover1632 I can definitely say that smt3 is among the hardest games I've ever played and I can understand where you come from, and it's true smt is not a game for everyone and the value of it's story heavily depends on the player eince it's very much all about morals and the concept of oneself instead of your relation to others like persona (short term "power of friendship"). Persona has everything smt's story is about, while adding relatability and character interaction to the mix so most people can enjoy it. Tldr everything you said is very valid I just think that when persona fans try to migrate to smt (particularly talking about smt3 idk about the others) they just get disappointed at the expectation they had vs what it really is

[@pedrol5004]

​@@urdatninja "persona has everything smt's story is about" sorry what? Did you even play an smt game?

[@urdatninja]

@@pedrol5004 I explicitly stated that I've played smt3, so if you disagree with my interpretation, elaborate instead of questioning whether or not I played it

[@RRP6632]

Persona: with a power of friendship, we can defeat demons and all evil things SMT: Fck friendship, let me social linking with all demons in existence, especially pixie and kill gods for fun

[@gotinogaden]

It's most likely the high school setting and social links. I am not sure about relatability being such a strong factor, since in both series, you handle a protagonist who is pretty much taken out of his element and given supernatural powers, something that nobody can relate to irl. And SMT is still somewhat niche, even with Vengeance in the mix. From what I've heard - haven't tried it myself yet - P5R is actually a lot easier than the vanilla version, so there's also the fact that the most accessible and widespread version of the game is still several layers of easy unlike SMT5 even when played on Casual or Normal. Perhaps some of that is for the wrong reasons (Okumura's castle seems more tolerable in P5R with all the new gameplay additions, but I still remember how much of a hassle was in the original).

[@Choicental]

While Persona isnt completely relatable, I think it’s familiar enough that many people would want to live a life like the protags in the game. I haven’t gotten to Royal yet either, but from what I’ve seen though, re-releases of Atlus games always sell better than the originals. OG P5 was the first Atlus RPG I played and I had a lot of trouble with it lol. I was really bad so it’s a good thing I didn’t start with SMT. I found Atlus through Catherine and Persona 4 Arena though.

[@kougaon8513]

Isolating the supernatural aspects obviously makes them seem unrelateable. Persona's entire identity is about finding oneself and facing difficulties a lot of teens have to face, hence the school setting. Smt is more focused on asking moral questions when it comes to narrative. Not really relatable but still valuable. So yeah, relatability definitely plays a role.

[@TeryonTheHuman]

Persona also has the the advantage of being significantly easier to understand and enjoy than smt. Remember this is a genre that something like final fantasy has pretty much abandoned, and for pretty realistic and justified reasons, if you don’t like turn based games persona likely has a chance of changing your mind with it’s power fantasy. If you don’t like turn based games, loading up something smt 3 is NOT going to change your mind. You gotta know how to read the room and play your cards right, and that’s something persona can do that smt can’t because persona doesn’t give a damn who thinks it’s “too easy”.

[@johnnyshins511]

Not only in gameplay, story too. Modern persona and even Persona 2 to an extent provide a relatively straight forward and relatable story for the player, whereas in SMT it's more abstract and can be pretty overwhelming at the alignment lock or even depressing at them. Like man when I ended up getting the law route on SMT4 I was so fucking mad upon seeing blasted tokyo. Like SMT is just a type of game that will always have a hard time reaching mainstream popularity just because of how it's made, the stories aren't typical, can be hard to actually get into, the art style can be almost alien at times and then at least with modern SMT games there's always a wall for you to face rather early on like Matador or Minotaur to just rock your shit unless you begin to pay attention to the games mechanics. Ultimately though it's also one of those franchises that once it clicks with you, it clicks and you begin to love it.

[@PheareanKnight]

I agree with a lot of what you said! I'm glad this came up on my Recommended tab. Thanks for being my video to eat lunch to lol

[@Choicental]

I watch KZbin with every meal lol no problem

[@simplypablo6506]

I'd say with the recent news of SMT VV selling half a million copy in 3 days, SMT being stucked to one platform was the true indicator of the series being not mainstream. SMT doesn't appeal to console player as it does with PC player like for eg me, I played my first SMT game (SMT 4) on the 3ds emulator in my pc.

[@Tenebris8444]

Hence the sales on handhelds for the games have been a linear positive with each release after 3? The series was never going to hit big and wide like persona from the fact that the premise of both games catered to different audiences. Sure it going multiplat is a change but there are sales info of VV still proving switch handheld being the lead in contrast to ps5 based on recent famitsu sales chart.

[@Kingdom850]

SMT V sold a million while being a switch exclusive, what the fuck are you talking about? Multiplat approach helps for sure, but SMT not being a hit is just due to the nature of it not catering to every audience.

[@twakilon]

Dude, Persona 5 was Playstation Exclusive for like 3 years

[@Kingdom850]

@@twakilon Hell, nearly every 2000s Atlus console RPG was a PlayStation exclusive lmao

[@simplypablo6506]

@@Kingdom850 SMT VV sold half of that in 3 days dawg if the game was released multiplatform day 1 then it would have reached 2 hell 2.5 million copies

[@cavewulf956]

Personally I think it's because SMT is more philosophical about the concept of chaos and order while persona is more about human struggles and friendship.

[@Charle_Z]

I’m just glad that both mainline SMT and Persona are multi platform now. Makes for better sales and accessibility.

[@nickaguirre2196]

I think also Persona is just a better franchise in many respects other than it's relatability and accessibility. I think we can all agree that Persona has a SUPER strong sense of art direction and music direction that frankly makes it stand out not only over mainline SMT, but just other RPGs in general.

[@zedorian6547]

I mean I’m sure you can say this about a variety of rpgs

[@nickaguirre2196]

@zedorian6547 I really can't. It's not to say other RPGs dont have good visuals or music, but none are as visually or audibly striking as Persona imho.

[@GameTimeNLL]

Highly disagree. Many smt games have a very distinct art style. There is no game with an art style similar to smt3 or for example soulhackers. And how are they better games?

[@zedorian6547]

@@nickaguirre2196 at least you added that it was your subjective opinion lol I mean I enjoy Persona as much as the next person though I REALLY wish they would drop the high school setting.

[@Sin606]

Interesting video, I can't say I played many SMT games, but I do realize how much Persona leans on it for it's start. It's sorta like how you can have 1 idea and you hit the fork in the road for what to do.

[@pkpanda5244]

wow man this video is great, im surprised its one of your first! hope to see your channel grow with time :>

[@Choicental]

I appreciate the support!

[@leixalkvinay2729]

I think it's just accesibility, all SMT games are either PS2, DS and 3DS. During the PS2 era SMT was pretty obscure, just like persona, but while Persona got direct continuity (P3 -> P4 -> P5) with re releases and spinnoff in between main games, making the brand relevant every few years. SMT got huge voids of contents on inconsistents systems, just look at the progression: Nocturne -> DDS1&2 -> Raidou1&2 -> Devil Survivor 1&2 -> Strange Journey -> SH -> SMT IV None of them are directly related to each other in gameplay, cast, story style or even plataform. And the space between SMT Nocturne to SMT IV was over 11 years, being controversial due to going from full 3D to a semi 3D with 2D battles, while also being a Mature rated game on the 3DS, so overall it was unatractive to new players (Strange Journey also suffered from being one of the 10 M rated games on DS). SMT VV has sold 500k copies in it's firts 3 days on sale, those numbers actually are close to what P3R sold, it likely won't sell more than it, but I can see it range from 700K to 800k at the end of the week. So yeah, SMT only really needed to be on plataforms where people wanted to play it, and also be on a reasonable tecnicall level (I'm pretty sure if SMT IV was a PS3/PS4 game it likely would have sold more than the 600k it sold it's first two years on 3DS, and by extension SMT V would be more succefull). Right now SMT is expanding as a series, Atlus games don't really sell that much, even with 1 million sales SMT V was a top 7 seller for Atlus, since only P5, P5R, P5S, P4G on steam and P3R had sold over a million copies, so it's likely Atlus will put more atention and resources on SMT to allow it to grow, insted of just being the Persona guys.

[@Choicental]

I just wonder if they stopped releasing 3D SMT games on big consoles because Persona had begun overshadowing it, or did Persona start overshadowing it because they stopped releasing mainline SMT games?

[@dot-fp9gk]

I’d be glad is SMT returned to an adult cast of characters for the next game

[@lutherh6090]

What’s the song that plays around the 1:00 mark? Man this series has such good music. Also, great video!

[@Choicental]

Thanks! I think that one should be Micorn & Departure from Megami Tensei 1. I updated the description with the other tracks as well

[@thepaper888]

Still playing vanilla smt5 G I got the dlc the day before it was delisted. I'm just loving it since I probably won't go back after vengeance.

[@wavezera]

how tf you only have 130 subscribers with this quality?

[@Mr_Cebula]

I have played Persona 2, 3, 4, 5 and I like them a lot. SMT Devil Survivor was also cool to play. Strange Journey bored me pretty fast, Persona Q also. I think It's time to try SMT 4

[@Choicental]

I haven’t played Strange Journey or Persona Q yet, but I always found the first person dungeon exploration from Strange Journey to be a turn off. I think you might like SMT 4, but one thing I’ll warn you about is relatively early on the game a certain area will open up and it might be a bit difficult to figure out where you’re supposed to go. Still, though, once you figure it out, you’ll be playing a great game with a pretty special soundtrack

[@Kash_Makaveli]

Smt IV is peak great story and great world / exploration

[@NotGahruvey]

I started in Persona(4) got hooked with 5 and then learned about the mainline. Got SMTVV day one; I haven’t beaten it yet since I have been busy, but I love it.

[@fishtonk5506]

As a personal fan, I really wanna try out shin megami tensei, but I’m on the fence about it because they are so fundamentally different. I’d love to see an objective review of shin megami tensei that does not compare it to persona to see if I should give it a shot.

[@Choicental]

I think most people can’t really help but compare the two if you’ve played one or the other. If I were you I’d just watch a no commentary gameplay video

[@strangedogg5068]

As someone who played p3p, p4, p5, p5r, smt4, smt5 and as fan of the usual rpg formula that smt follows, what I can say is that the smt games I played have a flowless battle system thats rewarding to people who actually wanna learn it, but smt storylines to me sucks, you feel so isolated from other characters that a better comparisson would be an edgy pokemon, but in pokemon you can get atached to your party, while in smt you can't (unless its a dlc demon, they can be carried pretty much the whole game, like artemis in smt5) smt, to me, has this one big problem and I feel like most of smt5 being compared to p5r is because the trailer sold smt5 as a persona game basically

[@GameTimeNLL]

​@@strangedogg5068not really a problem. As isolation is exactly what they are going for in pretty much every smt game. Especially 3 and 5. Not liking it is subjective. As I absolutely love isolation in videogames.

[@lethaltoconcrete2194]

This is your first video? It's extremely good for a first video if so. Subscribed

[@Choicental]

I appreciate it. I’m planning on uploading vids about a bunch of different video game topics so don’t be surprised if the next video isn’t SMT related. The one after that will be though so there are still plenty of SMT/Persona videos to come

[@lethaltoconcrete2194]

@@Choicental Oh, for sure. I'm interested in SMT/Persona, but I haven't actually played one yet, which is kind of how I ended up here. Either way, look forward to seeing your future content!

[@xRocketzFighterx]

Persona is fine, it's flashy, cool beats and the settings are relatable for alot of fellas. Personally! SMT series is much better for me since I'm a sucker for the determined/dedicated gameplay with niches. Not every game has to be appealing to the casual public. In fact SMT fans in japan and west are happy that it's niche because Atlus is the only main japanese company that delivers a more unforgiving retro style jrpg that no other companies do anymore unless you dedicate 50 or 100 hours to reach that one super boss in some other Square Enix jrpg ... and that's it.

[@deGoomyan5538]

I played my first ever SMT with vengeance and i really appreciate how different it is to persona. I like how demons are given personalities and wish and goals. The law and chaos and neutral endings give a lot of depth. Its a very complex game conceptually so I understand why it wouldn’t be popular… also i like making ultra stacked demons and i loved fusion in persona so this was a win.

[@kainekhagan]

the midori tweet LOL

[@Choicental]

Yeah that did not age well lol

[@igotyou62darthvat]

Just saw your first video and the first persona game I played was P5 Royal. Since then, I have been hooked. I just bought SMT3HD for switch and idk how I feel about it yet though.

[@Choicental]

The random battles are the most annoying part for me but hopefully it’s a good time. 5 might be a better start if you don’t like the random battles

[@Sirr855]

The main thing really boils down to a lack of them advertising a product when one was reaching so many people. From Soft games are just as combat focused as SMT, yet see massive success, Atlus took quick money over pushing a game that has the same amount of depth and care involved in it when you play it. And I don't blame them, they were going bankrupt. But Yeah, Persona Overshadows SMT because Atlus makes it so.

[@Choicental]

I think so. Also it’s evident that the Persona games get higher budgets too

[@DacioNerdTV]

Atlus really outdid themselves with Persona. Shows to go how far and powerful a spin off can be when done right. Would love to see Sega do the same thing to the sonic franchsie and make spin off of the other supporting charcters since their all unique and have different capabilities. Persona is so goated. Never really had a miss yet. Persona 6 will be delish 🤤

[@Choicental]

I’d like a new shadow the hedgehog game. The first one was overhated imo

[@johnnyshins511]

Tbh I think most of it is due to how heavy the stories of SMT tend to be. Take 4 for example, it's so damn easy to get attached to Jonathan, Walter and Isabeau, and the game ends up breaking your heart after the alignment lock with their fates, on top of that there's many different endings and none of them are really endings, they all have severe consequences for the world. On top of that the "best" ending for SMT4 is still bloody depressing with The White just erasing everything. SMT is always gonna be the artistic father of Persona, and while I'm personally not a fan of Persona's more recent entries like P5 and P5R due to the staggering amount of time investment required, I'll always appreciate it for allowing ATLUS to continue making those experimental titles. Now if only we can get a Digital Devil Saga duology remaster.

[@Choicental]

That’s a good point. I haven’t played vengeance yet but the endings in 5 definitely had a lot to be desired

[@ruinerdown1614]

Vengeance is amazing..... style, links, school days, and at the time and still...persona music starting in 3 on just hit the masses hard

[@kaiserknuckle9261]

I honestly don't see myself going to play any smt game I'm so used to personas gameplay loop that I might have a hard time adjusting

[@tamboyistheman]

I enjoyed the video.

[@Choicental]

Thanks for watching!

[@Danewd98sChannelgaming]

I do think while Persona will always be more popular and some parts of the fanbase have conflict between the 2 games for varying reasons. SMT I think is also getting more popular BECAUSE of Persona. SMT V doesn't just sell a total of 1.6 million (Original + Vengeance), because the series itself got more popular, but I think it's because Atlus is going more mainstream as a whole, and that's thanks to Persona. SMT and Persona is sort of helping each other in weird way, Metaphor seems to be combining the better aspects of both games (The Social Link aspect of Persona, with the combat of SMT). Which is what makes me so hyped for Metaphor, because it feels like a love letter to both Persona and SMT, aswell as a celebration of Atlus as a whole.

[@Choicental]

I also like how metaphor seems to be using a final fantasy-esque job system. Some square enix fans might enjoy it

[@thrillhouse4151]

A lot of things suddenly got popular over here despite being long running series cause of particular entries acting as a sort of gateway. Like Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure used to a niche thing but now even frat boys know about it cause of the anime. Yakuza was kinda under the radar in its first decade now I can’t even keep up with all of em cause it exploded in popularity. The name is definitely a contributor, they either can’t pronounce it, don’t wanna pronounce it, or don’t wanna be considered a weeb or gay or something.

[@LearnGuitarWithDave]

SMT is demon slaying grinding to metal, a bit of storyline then more demon slaying grinding. Hey I love that stuff... but Persona has hip hop, acid jazz, A E S T H E T I C S, social links and most importantly, Koromaru. It's a lot more "slice of life". And also, again, Koromaru. Good boy.

[@user-so6ps4pb6y]

I will saw this from experience as someone who couldn't stomach Dark Souls 3 for long but went ahead and beat Code Vein Solo, It's mostly about the characters. The characters in SMT tend to be soooo high strung and high concept that it becomes ridiculous hard to grasp what they want and are about, With them not developing any distinct personalities unique to them, And not just a mouthpiece for the faction they are in, Plus the fact that your interactions With other characters tends to be limited. In SMT, Saving/Ruling the world is the goal, And that's all your motivation. In Persona you getting stronger is tied to connecting with the other character, They are more plentiful and have more developed personalities and the story more or less becomes about their issues with the main goal just being there. You just have more to latch onto, And the games only started getting more popular when they leaned into them, Even if it was as difficult as SMT, While it would've lessened its popularity, It still would've eclipsed SMT in terms of popularity. Soul Hackers and Digital Devil Saga (Another bunch of SMT spin offs) are not as hard as SMT, Barring a few instances, But they still are not as popular because the characters tend to be more drab. I hope Atlus doesn't take the wrong lesson from this and end up making everything high energy, With the reveal of SMT 5 you could use my eyes as dinner plates watching what's in essence a Persona 5 protagonist walking around a ruined city, Or the remake of Persona 3 (A game that's somewhat more in line with traditionally SMT games) having more high octane music compared to the original.

[@ReyReina-mr2rb]

I’ve only played SMT V, Persona 4 and 5. Based off of these games I’d say the biggest difference is the type of story that is being told. They have similar themes but Persona tells more of a personal character driven story while SMT focuses on the world and the philosophy of that world. I loved the gameplay in SMT V but I’d love that same gameplay with a character focused story.

[@infinitedreamer9359]

There are various spinoff series such as Devil Survivor,Raidou, and Digital Devil Saga that do that. Only problem is that only Devil Survivor has accessibility ,the others are stuck on the PS2.

[@grantshealy4512]

Looks like Metaphor will somewhat be what you described.

[@ReyReina-mr2rb]

@@grantshealy4512 I know I think it will be more along the lines of what I was hoping for from SMTV

[@dylanmcnab2980]

Because not everyone wants to get beaten up and robbed by a Mokoi or have Walter buff a boss. The early game of SMT 4 left irreparable damage 10/10 experience

[@Choicental]

I think I got lucky with Minotaur lol. I’ve played that segment of the game 2 or 3 times and it’s never taken me more than a couple tries to beat him. At least he has one of the best themes in the series

[@AniDeMax]

I think what separates them both is that Persona style focuses more on the high school life aspect and its character interactions meanwhile SMT focuses more on a heavier theme and not really focused on interactions but more on morals which you can guess doesn't necessarily cater to many fans and unappealing.

[@ethanmiller631]

a raidou duology remaster will save all of smt - kazuma kaneko

[@kira516]

True man...... True...

[@Fullbatteri]

I hope this resurgence of SMT brings us a Digital Devil Saga re-release and a SMT IV remake or at least a remastered version.

[@Choicental]

Yeah those are the two I’d really like to see as well. And a new raidou game would be nice.

[@draegore]

I personally don't jive with Persona, but I'm really loving the dark post-apocalyptic vibes and larger stakes of SMTV. Vengeance looks amazing!

[@SpartanGoku]

Both series are great, the storytelling and characters are quite deep and entertaining from the Persona series to me personally. Still the PS5 SMTV is fun too( like an adult version of Pokémon) collecting demons and using them in fights. If they do remakes of the SMT series similar to SMTV , I would actually get them all. I already plan to get all the Persona remakes and Metaphor:ReFantazio

[@chaosuniverse8005]

In my opinion what makes persona games better is you lose the clock and don't feel the time passing

[@cassiedevereaux-smith3890]

Persona is more relatable. The characters have access to an alternate world, but other than that, they're people dealing with relatable problems, working through relatable issues. SMT is like, "okay, so the world has ended and you're living in the aftermath with demon powers and fighting angels." Persona touches in on mundane life. It keeps things grounded, the average player can see themselves in the crew, and with that comes more widespread appeal and buy-in.

[@micahltaylor739]

Y guy this your forst vid and told really well wouldnt mind more game dives from man. Fire emblem, mario, elden Ring etc. that can be your blue ocean or red ocean i guess

[@Choicental]

Thanks! Definitely planning on covering many different games. My next video will be up some time in July probably and it’ll be a lot longer and about a different kind of genre

[@micahltaylor739]

@@Choicental can't wait for men. Definitely will definitely check it out.

[@dareedox]

for me i think persona is like much friendlier looks so thats why it sells well

[@mauriciohiure2192]

it's easier in terms of difficulty and to get into, it has a more "funky" style with the teenager setting and OST and general aesthetics, the story isn't as dark, everything is much more "light" compared to the average SMT story, the characters are, let's say, more relatable, there's the whole social sim aspect that a lot of people enjoy the series mostly for, it just takes the "slice of life" animey stuff and embraces it, Persona from 3 onwards was just tailor made to be more popular than SMT, which is way more difficult, has a way darker story, setting and themes, social sim aspect is almost non-existent, it's more violent and gritty, SMT is clearly meant for a more mature fanbase, a JRPG franchise mostly made for hardcore JRPG fans, while Persona is a JRPG franchise meant for everyone, but both are great at what they're trying to do anyway

[@marcchanel]

I'll say this out of speculation. Persona 5 was my first SMT game and SMT 5 base game was my second. I didn't expect SMT 5 to be like Persona, but i did kinda expect it to be like Devilman where the themes of tragedy and betrayal take precedence. The themes are there, but they're not very convincing. I think SMT could benefit with more character development and having main characters spend more time with each other before Armageddon begins I do prefer SMT over Persona, but no amount of retrospectives and video essays on Nocturne can convince me that SMT doesn't have to change its minimal story tell. Yes, SMT games are good as games, but not as memorable stories. Other than that, yeah, the name/moniker definitely hurts marketing Japanese media has been more popular than ever, but people hardly say the original Japanese titles of anime and games. Some titles like Jujutsu Kaisen may be an exception, but that doesn't really mean anything I think SMT can actually benefit from being an anime ngl

[@marcchanel]

Also in recent news, SMT 5 Vengeance actually did sell more units within a week than P3R I'm happy, but I wonder how new players will react to the story and characters Ngl, there are still several noticeable weaknesses.

[@Choicental]

That’s good to hear. I enjoyed V but the side quests aside from the dlc ones were repetitive and the main story was a letdown imo. I haven’t had a chance to play Vengeance yet. Hoping I can get to it some time this summer. From what I’ve seen, they’ve been addressing everyone’s criticisms, like expanding on the existing cast’s moments, toning down the level scaling, adding another dungeon, adding another story, etc.

[@TigerTT]

It's funny playing through both P4G and Soul Hackers 2 at the same time because the world in P4G seems so small in comparison, but the fun writing carries it. Yet I also enjoy Soul Hackers 2 for it's more rated M vibe.

[@saikotenshi666]

I also think that Persona got a huge audience because of the introduction of Super Smash Bros Ultimate. That's how I learned from the Persona series

[@rancidiot]

Persona 1 and 2 were more in line with the smt aesthetic then it went all ✨️ 3 and onwards

[@heyitskoryn]

I’m not too sure how many share this sentiment, but I actually enjoy SMT much more than I enjoy Persona, and I started with Persona. Even playing both P3R and SMTVV recently, I prefer SMTVV. Regardless of how well SMT sells in the west, there’s just something about SMT that will always be my preference.

[@2amichaelj]

Persona has a more varied mixture of gameplay. SMT is typically dark (not that Persona isn't...) and more occultish which I think puts off some. I haven't played SMTV yet but it looks like Atlus is blending the style of Persona 5 with their main line SMT games now. I think SMT will become big as Persona fans are coming to the dark side.

[@GameTimeNLL]

SMT5 doesnt really have any persona influence tho. Pretty much still its own thing. It does look like they are merging the series in their upcoming Metaphor Refantazio game tho.

[@2amichaelj]

@@GameTimeNLL V Vengeance looks less like SMT and more like Persona to me. With Fantasio around the corner, it looks like mainstream Atlus games are starting to go for the flashy, stylish art style that made Persona (Persona 5) so popular. I haven't played V Vengeance but from what I've seen, it doesn't look like SMT to me. It's sorta a blend

[@GameTimeNLL]

@@2amichaelj how? What makes it a blend in your eyes?

[@2amichaelj]

@@GameTimeNLL it has bright and flashy attacks, multiple playable characters, the entire style and environment looks much different than SMT3, DDS, Devil Summoner and I would put in more in Persona. Just like Fantasio, Atlus' creative team are going to utilize the same engines and programming as their most recent titles. I'm just seeing all main line Atlus games looking, playing and hoping for the Persona 5 popularity imho.

[@2amichaelj]

@@GameTimeNLL I'm literally playing SMT3 and DDS right now and the vibe looks so much different than SMTV.

[@Clydecancook5000]

SMT 4 is my fav on my 3ds

[@Clydecancook5000]

And SMT 4 apocalypse's dlc costumes got to be drippy

[@SebastianGarciaOspina]

Lets say something where all of us (smt universe fans) can agree: SMT V V is reflecting we will now have equal quality on both gamelines!

[@kindasomeviews]

Like you said ppl buying the games need things to relate to within them. No one can relate to wars, apocalypses, deep and conflicting spiritual themes, abstract concepts to interact with, cannibalism (Digital Devel Saga), ect. The scale is just too grand for the casual to wrap their heads around, so Persona's approach with very likable characters, town to small town setting and building friendships while pushing presentation was just waiting to make mad bank. On top of the solid RPG elements looping into social links too.

[@darharharhar1484]

Yeah I mean personally the games are great in both main line and spin offs. My favorite was the duo digital devil saga 1 and 2 on ps2 I would lose my mind if they remastered it, not a remake but just some upscalling and being able to play it on modern platforms.

[@drygon9324]

The first time I discovered those games was when I played Shin Megami Tensei Imagine. Played that mmo till the servers died. Then, since I only had a PC I stoped playing anything related untill P4Golden appeared on steam and then P5Royal, then Strikers, and now I'll Buy SMT5Vengeange to support the company and cuse I want more.

[@Choicental]

I know a guy who pirates and emulates every SMT game but pre ordered vengeance so I think you’re right

[@2BAMaster9]

People want to remove the romance option in the game which is crazy

[@Jay3up]

I honestly think that persona is more popular just because of the whole social links/ dating sim aspects that it has

[@thepaper888]

I got every atlus everything and all the dlc before it was gone. On 3ds. Well, most, haha. 3ds forever...

[@nahte123456]

I'm not a super fan but I've played a bit of the over all SMT stories. Persona 3, 4, and 5, SMT 5 and the start of 4(I need to get back to that), Strange Journey, and Devil Survivor 1 and 2. And honestly I've noticed that SMT 4, 5, and Journey just feel more like it's meant to be niche. Stories are more high minded then really personally engaging, fighting isn't just harder but also more swingy making it frustrating at times, and is framed as the 'adult RPG'. Not that that's super bad or anything but really does nothing for mass appeal.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

Nice video. Thoughs: 1- this video comes at a time when Sony and Microsoft are betting less on console exclusives and being more open about allowing games to be multi-platform. This is releveant to the discussion because Smt5V being sucessfull is connected to it being in all consoles. 2- Also, looking back, the fact that SMT4 was only only the 3ds kept it out of view of most western audiances. 3- 2:58 persona is actually just final fantasy? 4- it makes sense that atlus doubles down on their most sucessfull product. at the same time i get tired of all the p5 spin off, specially since imo the original game was nothing special.

[@klissattack]

As far as spin offs go. Outside of persona I am a big fan of devil survivor. Digital devil saga was pretty good too

[@quisegotthapiece8077]

Both sides are always arguing but I love both series

[@Ren_the_hobo]

I actually perfer that SMT is a bit less popular. I have no idea why. I love both tho

[@LyriaAstralius]

The biggest reasons from my perspective had a lot to do with what is the popular aesthetic. High school was the setting for a lot of popular anime. People were not used to real romance selection. Most of all a lot of people who played the games were not super religious. SMT is a harder sell in the west when you pain angels as somewhat bad and demons as their equal. The designs and everything in SMT are fantastic but also off putting for the average viewer. It is usually harder, and darker and the music isn't massively appealing. Everything about P3 and beyond screams popular anime. The game play was the least important part. It was about the conversation while the opposite is true in SMT and that will always bring in a wider audience. People like simulations. Despite not liking working in real life they will do it in a game and find it relaxing.

[@cole9693]

Well there's not enough smt games on modern console, if they made smt 6 and 7 soon on ps5 I'd buy instantly (bought a switch years ago just to play smt 5)

[@neme6ben]

Cant say,im the opposite, dont enjoy persona games. Mostly bcz of the school settings, having to be in class, choose sports etc... its something i seriously dont want to spend any time on in a videogame

[@rushink]

If I had to guess before watching the video: *Appeal to casuals* with the dating sim mechanics and the much more easily digestible (but not necessarily less dark or deep) story, also the fact that despite being similar, Persona's gameplay is much easier than SMT, are the main factors at play. Persona's character focus is algo better for the average person, not having to learn more of people from short interactions showing their beliefs, but having a cast that's by your side throughout the story and doesn't make you feel alone in a world of demons... And waifus, the fact basically any female member of the cast can be romanced adds a lot to the appeal of Persona as a franchise, regardless of what a minority on Twitter might bitch about. These are basically the same reasons Persona 1 and the Sin-Punishment aren't as popular in the fanbase. That and the fact the dungeon traversing isn't as fun in those and the random encounters are trash.

[@raikerthedestroyer4092]

Persona has been a kind of in between games kinda thing, new people get what’s out or they see it looks good say persona 4 or it has the hype like persona 5 and then you do research and now understand you’re playing it in a whacky order. Also persona is more consistent with its releases (we didn’t need things like the dancing trilogy or 5 tactica but yeah) when it comes to why SMT and persona aren’t equally hyped up? Because atlus wants them as separate as possible and slows down one for the other, look at persona now nothing on persona 6 and SMT:Vengeance just came out so now persona is on the slow down and SMT will play catch up at least the way I see it someone may interpret it differently and I’m open to that. Oh and another thing persona phased out the SMT name starting with persona 3 portable (also the timeline of persona is really weird technically SMT: if started it. Then ibenroku: persona, SMT:persona innocent sin and eternal punishment, then persona 3 aegis first mission and now main persona 3 then FES (which all gets undone by reload meaning you need to play that.) now onto persona 4 with persona 4 golden then arena and ultimax and finally dancing all night, now onto persona 5 with its super confusing timeline split. So it should be persona 5 royal but because of strikers existing, it invalidates royal a bit by going with the original ending of P5 it should be royals ending that is “canon” but nope with no mention of maruki or Sumi (yes I know both were developed at the same time but still.) but yeah the timeline is original persona 5 then strikers and finally táctica with royal off to the side.)

[@PamonhasDePiracicaba]

Funny how both series started at 3

[@Zenithia4]

I like your pfp lol

[@Choicental]

Thanks lol yours is cool too

[@porridgeramen7220]

having been in this fandom for 9 years, i spot that every 3 years there are waves of new smt fans who aeem so preoccupied with persona being more popular. I think people need to seriously get over it. The answer will.not be found in whatwvwr the latest video essay is, there's tons of these on YouTune on this topic.

[@mushijian7839]

I've always preferred Persona over SMT, because where I live there is enough of that depressing atmosphere. And Megami Tensei was created in 80s, around the time, when present and past were seemed bright. So it was cool for authors write the novels about schoolboy who destroyed the world as we know and let the demons rape his teacher. Nowadays we beg the opposite.

[@thepaper888]

I am playing p3 fes on ps2 on ps3 haha. Don't forget to stop by ps3 eshop to get a ton of ps1/ps2 games not available elsewhere. Games that cost hundreds to over $1000 IRL for used copies for $6-$20 each on ps3 eshop. I know its digital and physical media is best, but if there is no other option and for the sake of preserving gaming history. Xenogears, Vagrant Story, all the Suikoden, Parasite Eve 1+2, old SMT/Persona, FF1-9, Tactics, Grandia , Mega Man Legends 1+2, Misadventures of Tron Bonne. Take advantage of the ps3 eshop while it's up. I know emulation is an option, just saying in case. RIP eshops: Wii Wii U DSi 3DS

[@user-ce6px3nj4r]

Smt has gravitas Persona has charm. i found myself more drawn to the quirky school drama of Persona.

[@TangyLimes]

Accessibility.

[@vianabdullah2837]

Persona is just made with more mainstream appeal in mind while SMT is for people who are already into RPG combat. The life sim elements balance out the dungeon crawling and makes really long RPGs more digestable for newcomers.

[@christopherhu7189]

I think it’s the style of storytelling that’s being deployed. Persona is character driven while smt is setting and theme driven. I think General audiences are attracted more to the former.

[@JohnDoe-vv9zp]

Characters have more personality and are more focused in persona. While smt has a more deeper emphasis on lore and conceptual ideas revolving around the universe.

[@bayumahendra1797]

They made right decision when makin persona3 into school based

[@UltimateRed-bj7mo]

I've been a Persona fan since P3 Portable and FES, but imo it feels like the way the stories and characters are written are stagnating. Enjoyed P4 and P5, but after I played vanilla P5, it felt like pretty much the same thing just in a different flavor. I think it needs a change in setting or character dynamics, or something like that. I've been trying to get into mainline SMT, but I from what I've seen and played I usually don't feel that invested in the stories or characters. To be fair, I haven't tried IV Apocalypse and just started V Vengeance, so those might prove me wrong. I rarely see people discussing story or characters for mainline, usually just gameplay and difficulty. I think Atlus should build up the Devil Survivor spinoff into mainstream. We can have good story, challenging tactical SMT combat, it doesn't have to limit itself to a high school setting or teenage characters, the characters don't all have to be entirely defined by their alignment, etc. We don't need to have this huge divide; we can have the best of both worlds.

[@Choicental]

Honestly I don’t think they’ll ever make a story as good as P3