Why Dual Wielding Is Never Returning To Halo

[@AscendHyperion]

"Dual", "Duel". Potato, Pototo, right guys? Come chat with me in my Discord! discord.com/invite/NPAQxGa

[@filippians413]

I challenge you to a duel with dual weilded magnums.

[@techpriest7060]

Oh god I accidentally left the server and now am waiting to be verified

[@AnnaBerry590]

No. >:v

[@Giraffinator]

Africa by PoToto

[@Sgt-Wolf]

"no, I don't think I will"

[@ToaDrakua]

Here's where I think Bungie went wrong with dual-wielding; they cut weapon damage and functionality when they should have cut down accuracy and increased reload times more. The issue wasn't that the feature itself was the problem, but that the compromises made to accommodate the feature were the wrong ones. Ruby of Blue's rebalance mods do a great job at illustrating how dual-wieldable weapons can exist in the Sandbox without compromising the integrity of the "dance" that is Halo's combat loop. He does this by making sure that each weapon can stand on its own, then balancing dual-wielding said weapon around that capability (i.e. increasing recoil and reducing accuracy). Additionally, the fact that you can't throw grenades or melee as easily while dual-wielding plays a big part in balancing the mechanic itself. It's not a problem with the meta so much as a tactical decision to be made in combat. It certainly helps that balance if there power weapons comparable in strength for those dual-wielded weapons to engage with. If anything, I'd prefer a sandbox that escapes the precision weapon meta that is so pervasive throughout Halo's history as a franchise, and having a unique counter for each weapon goes a long way in helping make that a reality.

[@caseyhall2320]

Yee, I agree with this. I love Ruby of Blue's campaign rebalance mods. I just wish I could use them while still being able to receive XP, since his take on Halo gameplay is much more alluring to me, often times.

[@mauz791]

Perfect

[@alephkasai9384]

I really dislike the precision weapon meta. Maybe it's just me but it feels so much less satisfying than using anything else.

[@Orinslayer]

Accuracy is already bad and reloads are already twice as slow as when you have a single though.

[@alephkasai9384]

@@Orinslayer Are the reloads actually twice as slow? I'm certain that they're about the same.

[@frankcate]

Careful Ascend,what you speak is heresy Ascend: Is it?

[@ShadowRainX]

"Oracle, what is dual-wielding's purpose?"

[@snatcher2592]

"More questions? Splendid, it is-"

[@arcawhisperinthestorm2381]

@@snatcher2592 Not another Word !

[@Anonymous-yq6wy]

@@arcawhisperinthestorm2381 please, dont shake the light bulb!

[@wolfdragox5563]

343: Nope, not at all 🙂

[@PANDORUM12]

If absolutely nothing else, I'd like to see duel wielding come back at least for the campaigns. I never was too big on Halo multiplayer, but I've always enjoyed the campaign experience, and If duel wielding has a reasonable home, it's there.

[@zombiemarine9894]

100% agree 👍

[@midgetman4206]

Yeah, screw the multiplayer, it's basically a game of snipers vs snipers and I want to use shotgun

[@daedalus6433]

@@midgetman4206 But what about Custom Games?

[@midgetman4206]

@@daedalus6433 that could be said for anything, I guess they're fine

[@julienvalverde8643]

Yeah I wish they'd seperate PvE and PvP more. Have a shit ton of fun mechanics to play with in campaign, and have a more refined and balanced sandbox on the side for the multiplayer. And give the ability for forgers to enable the mechanics they want when making custom game types. I know both Bungie and 343i have been trying to unify campaign and MP as much as they could, but IMO it's pointless. It's just going to give birth to more abominations like those we've seen before.

[@haloplayernamedjohn8405]

Applying Halo Reach bloom to just when Duel Weilded weapons to give them great inaccuracy compared to single weapon use. Making them only viable in more risky close quarter encounters.

[@Espartanica]

Just like Wolfensfien, the reboot series that started with The New Colossus

[@Hubert_Cumberdale_]

@@Espartanica Didn't it start with new order?

[@Espartanica]

@@Hubert_Cumberdale_ That's the 3rd in the series. The Old Blood came out after New Colossus, but was a prequel, and New Order is Wolfenstein 2

[@daedalus6433]

@@Espartanica You have it wrong. New Order was released in 2014, followed by the prequel The Old Blood and the sequel New Colossus.

[@Espartanica]

@@daedalus6433 Well, the naming doesn't make a lot of sense then, since the first one featured a giant robot, a colossus, and the second featured a new chain of command salvaged from the old one, a new order.

[@TrueSavage555]

"It seems strange how something remembered so fondly has been excluded from the past 4 Halo titles" Hayabusa: Am I a joke to you?

[@AscendHyperion]

Weeb armor Weeb armor

[@TrueSavage555]

@@AscendHyperion I don't care if its hentai armor or some shit. It looks cool af.

[@jacobwhelan45]

@@TrueSavage555 remove the sword and I think it should return. Also what about security? Haven’t seen that since reach, have we? It’s pretty iconic and it is a reference to another game

[@TrueSavage555]

@@jacobwhelan45 That too. That is probably my second favorite H3 Armor.

[@jacobwhelan45]

@@TrueSavage555 yeah I loved that one. There’s a few I miss. CQB being one of them. Especially that you had to beat reach on legendary for it. Military was cool as well. The traditional EVA looks better than the renamed version imo

[@roastingminer6919]

He is no heretic people, he is the arbiter, showing us the truth

[@NotSoChattyYT]

Truth

[@Ori--pw5vw]

Yes , he is the leader here not like those other idiots youtubers who think there opinion is based

[@thatquietasianguy9582]

It hurts

[@alphacraig2001]

HERETIC! HERETIC! HERETIC!

[@theghostofjeffgoldblumdail9613]

he speaks the truth none of us want to accept

[@3N1StaticGaming]

That doesn't mean it couldn't return, ever thinking about having it just in FireFight or Campaign. There are several things that only show up in Campaign because they're OP. Take H3 missle pod turret for example. The carried version was powerful enough imagine having a never ending fire. or take Halo 2 Scarab gun. So I'd say it's be safe to have it in campaign and maybe by default disabled in MP, but can be turned on in Custom Games. The thing is Halo is known for it's creativity so having the option for customs wouldn't be bad.

[@robertburton8055]

Nah

[@nimtheguinea5972]

*sad halo 2 noises*

[@sirbirbton]

What truth?

[@theghostofjeffgoldblumdail9613]

Read the title

[@LevityLeviathan]

Magnum is one weapon Magnum ×2 is a separate weapon that does more damage, but has no zoom, and restricts grenades, but still allows melee.

[@NinjaPieceLOL]

I was just thinking that too. They could make duel wielding their own separate power weapon.

[@l.a.wright6912]

@@NinjaPieceLOL maybe an armour ability???????

[@NinjaPieceLOL]

@@l.a.wright6912 I don't think armor abilities should ever return. Halo is an arena shooter. Everyone should start off with the same abilities. That's why they put in Spartan abilities instead.

[@daedalus6433]

@@NinjaPieceLOL Armor abilities could've worked if they were pickups.

[@l.a.wright6912]

@@NinjaPieceLOL that's why armor abilities are supposed to be a pickup and not innate, having innate abilities ie h4 was the problem not the exchangeable ones.

[@mLj0011]

I personally think Dual Wielding should just be a campaign exclusive thing like an ability or upgrade.

[@Michael-rt5so]

I'd love to see dual wielding make a return to the Campaigns. I just replayed them all and by far the most interesting to play, for me, was 2 and 3. Every other game I end up using the exact same weapons over and over (excluding 4 where you basically have to switch weapons after every fight). With dual wielding, I'm constantly trying out new things and even if I find a less powerful combination, it could still be very fun to use. I think they should even bring dual wielding back to custom games cuz that could be a fun way to mess around with friends.

[@mLj0011]

@@Michael-rt5so Yeah, the Plasma Pistol made an effective combo with the H2 Mag and SMG, Dual Wielding could return but it shouldn’t be executed the way it was in the past where they had to nerf some weapons to be compatible.

[@princeblasian3735]

That creates a disconnect between Campaign and Multiplayer, something Halo is known greatly for avoiding

[@mLj0011]

@@princeblasian3735 Some equipment in Halo 3 are exclusive to campaign

[@princeblasian3735]

@@mLj0011 true but those are a few things that you can actively like once for no more than like 30 seconds every other mission. Dual Wielding is much much more common within the Halo Sandbox

[@domenicfrankpatino8056]

I think the Wolfenstein series had really good duel wielding. Maybe other studios can look to that for inspiration

[@matthewfeathers7793]

@@jerryhoward6500 halo just nerfed weapon damage while it should have been accuracy and reload time like wolfenstien

[@matthewfeathers7793]

@@jerryhoward6500 this was top of the list i didn't see until after also try out wolfenstien the first 2 were amazing

[@RAFMnBgaming]

@@jerryhoward6500 I'd probably call them a subseries. Pretty much all the games up to that point were set in ww2, but from The New Order onwards they're more of an alternate history thing. You could probably classify them as a soft reboot I guess. Detached from the originals to be able to stand alone, but not overwriting them. As to whether you should play any of the ones before then: No idea about what the 8 bit stealth games were like, Wolf3D and its expansion are the predecessors of Doom, and while Doom holds up very well, they do not. People do seem to like Return to Castle Wolfenstein, and I keep on meaning to play it at some point, and you can get that and Wolf3D/Spear of Destiny bundled together fairly cheaply on Steam, if you're set on checking them out, but again, Wolf3D does not hold up well. You will probably get, at best, half an hour of entertainment out of Wolf3D. The only thing I remember about Wolfenstein 2008 is the pumpkin heads, which does not bode well. Maybe it's good, I can't remember.

[@rubydoomy]

@@jerryhoward6500 they are sort of a reboot in an alternate history world

[@Churro_EYT]

Wolfenstein isnt a multiplayer based shooter. Sure some games do have multiplayer, but the main campaign os easily wolfensteins best feature

[@rayne6018]

The worst casualty was the Plasma Rifle. Which was a fantastic weapon in CE, but has been underwhelming to terrible in every game since.

[@thebigyes8482]

It never deserved to get replaced by the assault rifle 2.

[@santi_super_stunts2573]

Imo it was the worst , did it stagger them like the plasma pistol , no , bullets way to slow , damage is shit to something like a magnum.

[@51TD0wN]

I understand what you're saying about how it affects weapon balance, and the golden triangle by denying a player access to certain mechanics. That being said, I've always thought giving players a choice to sacrifice very powerful abilities in exchange for firepower was one of the ways Halo gave players a choice in their playstyle. Halo 5's gameplay revolves around the magnum, and if the objective was to balance automatic weapons to compete with precision weapons, why is it that the assault rifle is so much worse than the magnum in the current patch?

[@51TD0wN]

I felt that Halo 5 got it right the first time around. The magnum was still very dominant, but the AR has it's place in the sandbox. Now it's just useless, which I don't think is good for gameplay. Just because Halo has always had a sandbox with one very dominant weapon doesn't mean that's how it always should be.

[@jackmcmorrow9397]

Because 343 dumbly tried to rebalance the assault rifle so the coddled dipshits who play competitive halo (which, btw, is the absolute worst way to experience Halo) would like it and allow it into HCS. But HCS/Halo Competitive games play nothing like a normal Halo match; no automatics allowed, BR spawns make the few non-power weapons still on the map obsolete because they're blatantly worse than the gun you spawn with. I think343 did a great job with making every gun viable and worth picking up, but the AR retuning was a mistake.

[@51TD0wN]

@@jackmcmorrow9397 Couldn't agree more

[@realsirstar6938]

this aged pretty well

[@YiaMdj]

I never realized dual wieldable weapons had their damage cut, I assumed that the balancing mechanic was just that you couldn't throw grenades or melee without dropping the offhand.

[@Ostr0]

Yeah they forgot that it was already several nerfed by default big rookie mistake.

[@Sly_4]

An idea 343 could look into is decreasing the viability of the guns at range but making it slightly more powerful at close quarters than anything else except maybe the shotgun, kinda like halos philosophy for shotguns. Maybe add a wider reticle and perhaps a little more recoil. And for just a single version of that gun make it regain its longer range smaller reticle and of course the ability to use grenades/melee.

[@jameslafountain]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing to decrease accuracy and maybe rrr when you’re dual wielding

[@roar104]

Cut the range the aim assist works at so you don't get bullet magnetism as far out. It would force them to be closer range weapons.

[@shinoburaiu]

They could also make it so you could melee with them, and be able to switch between weapons without dropping them as well. By pressing Y you could switch to the second weapon like always, the dual wielded weapons could go on each side of the Spartans legs. And if you you want to drop said dual weapon for another, I was thinking you could just double tap X or Y.

[@TheRABIDdude]

@@shinoburaiu Yeah I fully agree. I have no idea why they made melee drop the weapon in the first place, it's just an annoying faff. Especially considering that if you just used melee then you likely just killed an enemy, so now there are 3 weapons on the floor to sift through to find yours again. I'd hadn't thought about holstering both, but my god my eyes are open, that's such an obvious quality of life fix as well. They can make the weapon switching time to the dual wielded ones slower if they fear for balance. No reason not to add this.

[@Ostr0]

They should've just kept Dual-Wielding without nerfing it since it already gets nerfed by default several times.

[@Hashakka]

i’d do weapon balancing like how mw2 does: just make everything overpowered

[@AscendHyperion]

"When everything is broken, nothing is."

[@REALMARCHINADER]

Agreed. I wish Ruby of Blue makes a rebalanced multiplayer mod

[@jacobgardiner9267]

I would support that

[@Man_0f_Trenches]

The precision weapon meta really drags halo down. It's much more fun to play with auto weapons. Perhaps it could be retooled to make it so that dual wielding is a viable counter play to the precision weapons.

[@arbiter1er]

I'm a bit late, but I think that having access to the slide to torpedo with auto weapons in Infinite is a good step towards it (+ de scoping)

[@louis3069]

You really do some of the best Halo content on KZbin. The editing is superb and you address issues many other creators dare not to challenge. The Halo community is suffering a massive famine right now, with many fans disillusioned by the series, but I firmly believe that once Infinite arrives, this channel will truly soar. Thanks again for these videos and I look forward to the next ones.

[@GallowayJesse]

Dual wielding was "cool" aaaand that's about it. H2 and H3 would have been better with a properly balanced sandbox instead.

[@winter6407]

Spain without the s Wow I really got first with this

[@adnancharif9296]

Dual Wielding must've played a massive part in the decline of the Magnum, by toning it down as a weapon and ruining it in the end. I hope it becomes a good weapon in Halo Infinite, if dual wielding doesn't return

[@SkyNinja759]

Dual wielding needlers should come back. It was extremely fun watching a cloud of darts flying to the enemy to instantly super combine.

[@xdfanatic]

Here’s the solution: Don’t nerf the damage of any dual wield weapon, but increase that weapons spread mechanic while it is being dual wielded. It’s realistic and balanced because you won’t hit your enemy as often.

[@MintyLime703]

You're still just going to get outgunned by a good BR player who won't have to rely on RNG spread and can stay at range negating your increased damage. Precision weapons will tear up autos no matter what. I think Infinite is going in the right direction with increased effectiveness at range with automatics, rather than shortening their range even further.

[@koryfredrick1164]

@MintyLime That statement is too generalized and doesn‘t take into account one major aspects of what makes the precision meta what it is: map design. If sou compare most halo maps with most other multiplayer shooter, they‘re mostly open spaces and a few tighter ones, that don‘t connect to each other. Dual wielding ideally should be a tactic you can use to gain an advantage in certain situations, i.e. close quarters, with the downside of sacrificing mid-range capabilites (more projectile spread, no grenades, no zoom etc)

[@bestdogshadow383]

But if you don't hit your enemy as often then wouldn't you have the same outcome? Like if you hit all your shots normally but only hit half when dual wielding, its the same outcome. And you can't melee, and you can't throw grenades.

[@animatedmonkey5882]

@@bestdogshadow383that’s a complete misconception. no one said you would miss half your shots. You may Miss half at the maximum range of a single smg. But at close range you should still hit most of your shots. The point of adding inaccuracy to duel weird would be to create a difference in range and utility between single and duel wielded. Wolfenstein kind of does this but it work’s differently. You get decent range and accuracy with duel wield but get aiming and improved handling with a single weapon so using a single weapon is better at long range and for more precise and deadly shots at close range, using less ammo but having less destructive potential against multiple opponents

[@Ostr0]

Here's a Idea don't nerf it at all it already gets nerfed by several factors leaving much left to be desired.

[@TheRABIDdude]

Best solution amalgamated from all the comments I've read: 1. Make all weapons good enough to stand alone when not dual wielded. 2. When firing both weapons dual-wielded, they have dramatically decreased accuracy and somewhat increased recoil. 3. When firing one weapon dual wielded, it behaves as if it is not dual-wielded. However, the two weapons share bloom timers. 4. Reload and plasma overheat times doubled. 5. Melee takes 1.5x as long to perform, or deals half as much damage. Quality of life improvements: 6. Can stow both weapons. Drawing them should take twice as long. 7. Melee doesn't drop the weapon.

[@AlejoConejo-vb8ln]

It may not be very useful in competitive MLG gamemodes but for casual games and machinimas it gives players a freedom that no other game offers. Halo MUST stay different from all other FPSs!

[@cyrilarabatzis461]

It's simple: Make it Campaign exclusive. The beloved feature remains in the story mode and doesn't affect "mUh mEtA" in MP.

[@wolfwarlordjake8992]

Exactly what I was thinking

[@mariobadia4553]

Then people would screech and demand to know why it's not in multiplayer or scream at 343 to put it in multiplayer

[@samwidge4537]

Easily the most underrated channel on KZbin.

[@buffch1cken77]

Most underrated halo KZbin channel

[@skylarmontes9492]

My pp hurt

[@media.wmv-withodhranjohnso8334]

Really concise and well put together video that doesn't deviate from the core topic. Keep up the great work!

[@JMObyx]

You know how the meta should've accommodated dual wielding? Don't halve the power the weapons have when you dual-wield. Just make it so that when you dual wield weapons, you trade accuracy for power, you got more power, but it'll be harder for you to hit your targets properly, just like in real life, you duel-wield weapons you get an accuracy debuff, your targeting reticle changes and becomes less accurate, which is why soldiers IRL don't do it.

[@sage_thunderleaf487]

Another fantastic video. Your topics and discussions about Halo are so unique and refreshing to me. You definitely deserve more subscribers.

[@warmasterjade8663]

Akimbo CE magnums would be broken in halo 5

[@The-Black-Death]

In Cursed Halo there's actually a joke weapon that is exactly that and it's gloriously OP as hell.

[@wolfdragox5563]

How else is watching this video again after the recent news 🙂

[@Tentaclear1]

I’m glad someone could put into words how I’ve been feeling. I always knew dual wielding hurt the weapon sandbox but never knew how to explain it. Thank you bro

[@Dan_om3]

I appreciate that the video goes straight to the point withing less than 10 minutes

[@AscendHyperion]

I make sure my videos are only as long as they need to be.

[@robint361]

I believe its an issue of implementation rather than concept. They implemented it in a way that greatly discourages grenades, melee, and weapon switching requiring you to drop a weapon do to any of those and then fumble to pick it back up afterwards. The solution is rather simple: Have all dual wield weapons be exclusively dual wield. You pick up a smg you automatically get two When you find a new dual wield weapon you can chose to replace one of the weapons or both When you swap weapons, both get stored. When you melee you don't drop a weapon. And having dual wield weapons doesn't exclude the use of grenades. There you have the flexibility of dual wielding without limiting your abilities.

[@carlostoledano4716]

Maybe have an specific weapon created for dual wielding. But that means it is more restrictive.

[@grantlauzon5237]

You could have a Forerunner weapon that can turn into two smaller guns. Like have it go from Tracer’s guns in Overwatch to a single weapon like a Carbine.

[@snatcher2592]

That'd be awesome

[@Orinslayer]

@@grantlauzon5237 I like this idea. In shadow warrior, you can buy an uzi upgrade that let's you pull a second uzi out of your leather jacket and do double damage.

[@DivinusPrime]

I can see why it was removed. Imagine if Duel Wielding continued with Halo Reach and 4. Not only would the armor abilities would’ve been present but along with duel wielding. I don’t think anyone would’ve been okay with duel wielding while you sprint regardless if you duel wielded the magnums or Spiker’s in Halo Reach. While duel wielding magnums along with scatter shots. Or duel wielding while using a jet pack. It would’ve been chaotic is my point

[@darkenergy7291]

oh yeah dual wielding can definitely be fixed. And here's how you do it: keep the damage normal but half the accuracy and boom, you have balanced dual wielding

[@xKingx16]

Precision is meta in Halo. It's the same issue all over again.

[@SS-ARYAN]

@@xKingx16 If the "half the accuracy" refers to more recoil instead of adding RNG bloom, people could simply take the time to learn the intensity of the jolt, and adjust to it, turning it into a skill whilst not making the weapon too OP. If adjusted properly, along with other factors, single wielding the same weapons can still be equally as viable in the meta.

[@Beanpolr]

@@SS-ARYAN Not really. As much as I would love duel wielding back, it will still never stand up to a guy with good aim using a battle rifle, sniper, or the like.

[@SS-ARYAN]

@@Beanpolr Ofc not, Halo has a precision meta for a good reason, was mostly talking about AR starts and "viability", not necessarily being the optimal choice.

[@The-Black-Death]

@@SS-ARYAN Precision only goes for far until your opponent exploits your need for range and relies on taking good cover along with quick response times and spacing/placement.

[@nexuslord6831]

I immediately knew the point of “Weapon nerfing” was coming- Great vid as always. AlSo BrInG bAcK yOuR mAcHiNiMaS

[@Chrisspru]

Dual wielding should not be balanced by damage nerfs alone. Halo weapons have secondary characteridtics in halo, around which dual wielding can be blalanced. Dual wielding can reduce/remove these special attributes: plasma rifle stun, plasma pistol tracking, smg spread tightness and reload speed, pistol zoom and bullet magnetism, mauler knockback and range. Damage nerfs should be the last option. This keeps dual wielding powerfull, while keeping the single weapons strong too. This way dual wielding is an option, not a crutch.

[@alexanderdill5114]

How to Fix Dual Wielding in Halo (potentially for infinite): 1 - Make it a skull that you can find an unlock 2 - Allow Dual Wielding to be used in Campaign, Firefight, and certain custom games IF ENABLED 3 - Balance the Dual Wieldable weapons to their solo variant, and allow for the double power of the two weapons. The reason that Dual Wielding is remembered fondly in Halo 2/3 is because it was FUN. Dual Wielding does not work in Matchmaking as a mechanic for the core multiplayer gameplay, but it was a fun and satisfying mechanic for more casual PvE settings. Therefore it could easily be added in for those who want it in a limited setting.

[@spicyramen1895]

Just wanted to say, this was a fantastic video and break down on the subject of dual wielding, and really opened my eyes to how much of a hindrance it really was in Halo 2 and 3. Also gotta say, after watching your video on female spartans and this, you've hooked me and now I'm a big fan of your channel! Your content and the way you do these videos are refreshing and really well done. I hope to see a lot of great videos from you in the future! Also, I wanted to ask you, what do you think about the Halo community? To me it feels like its number's are dwindling, and very little people seem to... care about Halo anymore, at least thats been my experience with everyone I've met alone.

[@JBzucc]

I'd say a big part of the communities downfall was the purists that treat anyone that doesn't agree with them like shit, met a lot of people that just kinda don't care anymore cause they don't feel welcome in the community, it really kills me to see so many people that love the series and are enthusiastic about it just get pushed away cause of some really childish and bitter individuals

[@spicyramen1895]

@@JBzucc That's very unfortunate to hear. Although, I never encountered any "purist" Halo fans before, most likely because I've always been a more casual fan(only Halo lore I read was The Fall of Reach). I'm honestly sad that there's little people that care about/have any interest in Halo, because everybody thinks its juts a generic fps. Everybody I met just, really doesnt care, and think its just another "shoot guy with crappy ai and win". But it's not. I tried to explain its more than just that, its more than just some shooter, theres a lot more to it on a gameplay and community level. But alas, no one listens, no one cares. I've been slowly accepting that Halo is dead, and no one I meet will care about Halo. By the time I get an Xbox one or PC to play Halo with new people, those player bases will be dead. Might as well let go something I once loved and held dear to my heart.

[@JBzucc]

@@spicyramen1895 to be honest I think if 343 can manage to release halo infinite with minimal backlash for it not being perfect I think it can make a comeback, I'm not holding my breath but I'll be there along with my friends to find out what it'll be like, halo was the first fps I ever really got into and always loved the lore and the universe, it's just so good, I have some mates that are pretty stubborn too, I've tried to get them to play Warframe with me since i love all the lore and the universe of that too but to them they saw a really different art style to most games and weird space ninjas that look all weird, but after a bunch of convincing I'm easing them into it, gotta bide your time and try and find stuff that appeals to them to get them interested even though to you it might not seem like a big deal, I hope you find luck in that friend, keep loving what you love

[@WonderMePartyStrip]

Dual wielding does not hinder melee or grenading. Perez lied about dual wielding hindering grenading in Halo 2 and 3, and this youtuber did not even test if this was true or not. The standard button layout has melee to B, then grenades on left trigger. The only hindering here is grenading, because you shoot your secondary weapon, but melee still posible. Your secondary weapon just drops to the ground while doing that action. I can't remember all the OG controller layouts for H2 and H3, but one of those may put grenading on on the buttons instead of the triggers. The CONTROL LAYOUT is what hinders to do some actions. On PC you can have melee and nade on the mouse buttons. While dual wielding, you can activate those actions then you losse your secondary weapon. Nothing is hindered.

[@moresoulthanasockwithahole3493]

I think I'd make it so that when you nade or melee, the weapon isn't dropped, but nades and punches are thrown at a slower speed.

[@AscendHyperion]

Slower nade throw I can see. But uh, how do you punch slower?

[@moresoulthanasockwithahole3493]

@@AscendHyperion like a charge up in a fighting game

[@grantlauzon5237]

5:33 Dual wielding a UNSC and a Covenant weapon sounds cool until you have to deal with the separate muzzle velocities while aiming at moving targets. You have to choose how much your going to lead your shot with one weapon at a time. Unless you’re trying to noob combo it defeats the purpose of dual wielding especially when both weapons are nerfed to begin with. TTK wise pressing (Y) does take more time but not that much more time especially when both weapons aren’t nerfed.

[@Espartanica]

Unless you're good enough to hit with both weapons at the same time.

[@grantlauzon5237]

@@Espartanica But then you’re at the mercy of bullet magnetism not your own accuracy. You can’t aim the weapons separately so you have to choose or let the game do it for you. I play with controller, those playing with a mouse don’t get any aim assist.

[@Espartanica]

@@grantlauzon5237 So... don't rely on bullet magnetism or aim assist? Just get good at hitting targets with both weapons at the same time?

[@grantlauzon5237]

@@Espartanica I think your misunderstanding what I'm talking about. A visual representation. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXzVoaBtoJt-mLM

[@Espartanica]

@@grantlauzon5237 No, I understand just fine. It seems you don't understand how to properly utilize dual wield weaponry.

[@vincentrowe4116]

Add it as a legacy option: make it a kind of crazy game mode, on par to husky raid or super fiesta, then people can get their fix without disturbing the balance if the core multilayer, especially ranked.

[@crunchybombed2614]

They should’ve added melee but bloom for dual wielding but either way it needs to return!

[@theaverageclownhole3369]

Nah even with bloom you could just melt shields with 2 plasma rifles then melee.

[@slayridah]

I love how they act like its impossible to program the game to melee when duel wielding. No grenades i get but why cant they code in melee!!!???

[@theaverageclownhole3369]

@@slayridah I don’t think they are incompetent and can’t add in melee it’s probably just for balancing

[@WonderMePartyStrip]

@@slayridah Perez just lied about it and this youtuber did not a good research on that matter. You just drop your secondary weapon on the ground while meleeing OR grenading.

[@nikitasavtchenko4418]

What if dual wielded weapons had poor accuracy, so that they’d shred up close but you’d only be able to land about 50% of your shots at range making them effectively like single wielded weapons

[@imezstreety33t28]

Just some ideas 1. Adaptable base damage. 75% on its own then lowered when duel wielding so the whole is 100% the percentages could change bases on bullets or plasma or both. ( have not yet pondered the ramifications of this yet) 2. The grenade button could throw a grenade and auto drop the 2nd gun , kinda like a more viable flag throw strat. Same could be implemented with melee or add a slower melee animation possibly longer lunge. (Play with lunge lengths needed and maybe ability to block melees if no lunge.) 3. Add less powerful melee weapons silmilar to sword or hammer with varied lunge lengths as a duel wieldable. Having a weapon that melees almost as much damage as regular melee with halo 2 sword lunge distance and then have a weak 50% base damage gun to finish off the kill could be fun!

[@ExceedinglyFPR]

anyone who has played a ruby remastered mod can explain to you how duel wielding weapons can be balanced without limiting the sandbox. just make the stats of the weapon completely viable when used alone and when duel wielded cut range, damage falloff, and/or bullet spread to compensate for the increased firepower and the loss of melee and grenades are just part of that tradeoff.

[@xxNovaprimexx]

They could've had a single version of the gun have 0.75X damage and have the second pickup add 0.5X so while it is more powerful together, you can still be killed if you're not careful, while still having the single version of the gun not be practically useless. Or heck, have the single gun be full damage while the second gun does a 0.25X damage. This obviously needs work and would be hard to implement, but its a better start than splitting the damage in half

[@The-Black-Death]

TBH they could still add in dual wielding if they just increased the aiming reticule's size to decrease the accuracy with dual wielding even if they didn't nerf both sidearms while dual wielding. Many other games have done stuff like this and it could still very easily be added to Halo was well if they balanced it properly.

[@oceanbytez847]

bring daul wielding back as a matchmade specific game function that can be accessed in only certain matchmaking or custom matches.

[@MrNotgoth]

Damn you are my favorite halo channel right now that does discussion vids. Keep it up man!

[@AscendHyperion]

That's what I like to hear :D

[@TheRoseReaper]

Honestly, the way I'd fix it is, lower the accuracy on anything that's dual wielded to where you can still hit stuff, but the bullet spread requires you to get up in someone's face to do the solid amount of damage you need. You can still have double the power, just lower the accuracy. I noticed this while playing Borderlands 2 with Salvador and unless I can be proven wrong, his Dual Wielding ability (despite it literally dual wielding whatever you have on hand) does more damage at the cost of him being less accurate. While it may work a little differently in Halo, the core mechanic can still be there.

[@AscendHyperion]

On paper, a reasonable suggestion. But then you put these lower accuracy weapons in a fight sandbox dominated by ranged precision weapons and you end up in the same spot we are now.

[@TheRoseReaper]

@@AscendHyperion That'll depend on the map design. For example I found it easy to do that sorta stuff with close range weapons in Beaver Creak is really effective. Now with some of the maps designed for big team battles, I can see what you mean there.

[@Blellowdb]

Just make dual wielding reduce accurate range and take a long time to reload. The real problem with dual wielding has always been that you just die to precision weapons, like all short range options. I'd make marksman weapons inaccurate out of scope, leaving only the pistol for closer range precision shooting so that auto weapons and cqb options are actually useful for a change.

[@devwithkev6026]

Why not add dual-wielding weapons in custom games or specific games modes instead of team slayer.

[@ShinkuRED]

Check out Ruby's rebalanced halo 2 and halo 3. He almost perfectly balances duel wielding in my opinion. He adds a trade of for dual wielding, which is loss of accuracy. Playing through his mod you'll notice that you often do switch between dual wielding and not dual wielding, because neither option is the best in any given scenario.

[@skylertremblay3395]

i feel like the simplest solution would be to increase weapon spread and decrease range, but that might come with its own set of problems. an idea that i had that maybe a more creative workaround for this would be that each weapon would act normally when fired individually but when fired congruently with another weapon both weapons together would have some kind of special effect or property instead of just increasing damage, this property would be unique to whatever weapon combo you are using. so for example if you are using a plasma pistol and a plasma rifle, firing them together would knock players backwards but the weapons would have a longer recharge

[@sidewire8777]

Personally I think a great compromise would be to pick up two guns that will technically count as one gun entity when you pick it up ( meaning no two different guns) where the only draw back is that you can’t fire grenades and larger recoil and maybe some Melle which u can technically Melle while duel wielding but you’d drop one of your guns afterward but that’s only for 2 and 3. Or you could create it as a power weopon where it only has so much ammo before it runs out. So for example you can have an smg gun by itself but another variant can have two smg that will count as one entity that you find on the map

[@l.a.wright6912]

dual weilding has an easy fix, greatly increase the spread and increase the damage, dual weilding should be good at cqc and terrible at range, it's main benefit was that it was good at that, and with how powerful precision weapons are specing to cqc would offer a good exchange of reliability, range, and versatility for cqc dominance

[@batteryhammer7947]

Another problem with dual wielding is when a left-handed player using the southpaw setting tried to use it, the fire buttons were reversed (left fired right and right fired left) . It just added another layer of confusion to gameplay for those were left handed, because seeing the wrong weapon firing would mess with you. So the two options were to play with southpaw on and without using dual weapons or just use the normal settings and handicap yourself. I being a left handed player was glad to see it removed in later titles because it allowed me to enjoy those games better.

[@loganandrade1758]

I would like to see a dual wield weapon that is only dual wield and more powerful but you can’t use equipment and gernades while holding them. Like dual pistols or smgs. I think smgs would be the best option to keep that power element. To clarify you wouldn’t be able to seperate the weapons the two guns would be considered one weapon.

[@dieterhorvat5176]

I really wish somebody made a game from scratch based around dual wielding-- where, say, every gun barring 3-4 can be duel wielded for differing combinations. its such a unique system that I wish we saw more of

[@moloney0218]

Y not just have a dual wield version of the gun and a regular veruon of the gun, where the regular version has a higher damage output and or higher fire rate, that way when you can use the gun viably either way?

[@livingthedream915]

Fantastic video, and this explains why the Halo 4 AR was included in Halo 2 Anniversary multiplayer.

[@DreamStepper]

In short it was removed because at some time around Halo Reach someone decided that Halo has to be more competitive than it is fun.

[@TarsonTalon]

My solution? ANY weapon can be dueled, BUT YOU CANNOT RELOAD until one of them is dropped. Unless of course, you have a duel-wield armor ability, which allows you to store an additional small weapon, as well as reload any small weapons that are dueled. Certain weapons do have distinct disadvantages while dueled, such as Shotguns taking way long between shots due to the necessity of a Terminator pump-action. This comes from a post-Reach perspective, as I didn't like Halo 4, and totally skipped Halo 5. Also, duel Spankers would be awesome...and so would recreating the SMG/Spartan Laser duel wield from Halo: Legends.

[@AEleven]

Underrated channel.

[@meburritoloco7475]

I like dual weilding, because it gave some otherwise not good weapons purpose. The plasma rifle sucks at taking out health, but are excel at taking out shields while the smg or magnum are vise versa. Now if I want a similar effects, I gotta take out shields with a plasma rifle, switch, then finish them off with my weapon that takes out health, but at that point, if your opponent can properly aim their AR given you're both at close-medium range, you're already dead. Even the Spiker in Halo 3 had it's use and that's probably my least used weapon. The only time I use some weapons at all is if they can be a dual wielded. Now I just ignore a good 3rd or 4th weapons, because they're just worse than the base AR, BR, or DMR. I do got serious nostalgia glasses for Halo 2, but I do believe dual wielding was a welcome change

[@a_demon]

I just recently happened to stumble upon your channel and I am not disappointed! I love your content and it is a refreshing break from the "Should you be worried about Halo" style videos from other channels. Keep it up!

[@frank_calvert]

tbh i've never used dual wielding in halo. it has just felt needless for me all the time

[@gideonschlen4022]

Keep firepower where it is while substantially cutting accuracy, recoil control and reload speed. This gives you devastating close range firepower, with some major compromises. This will make it very useful in some circumstances but a serious limitation in others forcing players to mix up their tactics for different maps and game types.

[@sonigokuu]

I'd implement the ability to store dual magnums (or other dual-wield weapons) when using your other weapon such as a BR.

[@davidantinori4778]

Back in the Halo 2 days, my friends and I were excited for the dual wield mechanic. But I gotta say, we were only using it while we were noobs. As we became much better at playing, all we ever used was the BR and some power weapon. After a few months I observed that mainly noobs kept using dual wield and they usually fell victim to the BR. So all in all, my friends and I don't miss dual wielding at all. In H3 we didn't even bother using it for anything else than two brute shots, as a "poor man's shotgun". But after watching your video, I finally know why most of the weapons in H2 were so weak. Thank you!

[@Windjammer19]

I think one of the fixes for DW is not spawning them in pairs. Just spawn them in singles and force players to have to search for a DW-able weapon somewhere else on the map. It allows these weapons to act as pseudo-power weapons, but can be partially controlled by other players or even enemies. Like this, it keeps single-wield viable and makes DW valuable, but hard to acquire. But most importantly, make auto cool again. Edit: Or maybe have a pickup on the map that allows you to dual wield if you have one equipped. Then for like a minute or until you die, you have a second weapon.

[@dabo77777]

Making the gun damage different between single and duel would help balance it, example- pistol does slightly more damage when used alone->then does less when in dual-weild. Also allowing melee would help it work

[@vladtomuta3008]

I have an idea for balancing dual wielding in multiplayer, which involves map design. First balance each and every weapon to be capable on its own. This means no damage debuffs on single hand weapons. Then with each map, make sure that dual-wieldable weapons are never placed in proximity to each other (like we see with plasma rifles and smgs in halo 3). This way it is rarer and more difficult to actually obtain a weapon in each hand, making it somewhat like getting a power weapon. Penalties to accuracy and reload times, as well as the inability to use grenades should still keep this from being too powerful.

[@jonathanschenck8154]

It works for H2A. But by removing the mechanic, it prevents some uses of classic automatic plasma weapons that didn't properly carry over in halo 4. Removing the iconic plasma rifle til H2A multiplayer became it's own mode. But even reach didn't do away with that weapon.

[@blackwarrior0776]

If they re-implement the mechanic they should have the fire coming out of both guns and the same ammo consumption as well as rate of fire and reserved ammo, but make the damage a bit above half for both weapons to compensate for a lack of melee and grenade throwing, but when you stop your ammo should be at half of what you had and you should cap off with the ammo from the other gun if available with damage being restored to full output. Basically: When duel wielding damage gets cut to a bit above half for both weapons.

[@TheGawd100]

Dude it's SO SIMPLE. Take how it was done in Halo 3, make it so that dual wieldable weapons together are viable options, balance around them being together and let them be piddly pea shooters by themselves. DO NOT take away the ability to melee or switch weapons, the game should never force the player to drop one of their dual wielded weapons. Finally, design the game around the button exploits players already use. Make it such that a player holding 2 SMGs can simply tap Y, LT, Y to throw a grenade and draw their weapons again. Bam, combat dance preserved, weapon balance handled, and people can still feel like a badass shooting 2 guns at once.

[@bestdogshadow383]

But here comes the problem of if you only have say 1 magnum and the opponent has 2. They have double the TTK than you do. I think a better option would be a specific weapon has dual wielding, and to accommodate for no grenades or melee it acts like the turret in forms of firepower and accessibility. Like a forerunner gun that breaks into 2 different guns when you pick it up.

[@RoseSupreme]

Surely balancing Dual Wielding can't be that complex. Have the weapons function at their full potential while they get a recoil/accuracy nerf when dual-wielded so players have to get closer or hold still to be a little more accurate. Same goes for precision weapons like the Magnum. Call of Duty has been doing dual-wielding for 11 years now and has little to no problem with doing so (barring stuff like MW2's pre-patch M1887s and pre-patch MW 2019's Snake Shot Revolvers). Hell, in H2A Multiplayer, the SMGs receive a RoF nerf when dual-wielded. So lowering RoF can be a thing.

[@AscendHyperion]

"It can't be that complex" is a logical pitfall. If two groups of experts have yet to reach a solution, trust me, it's complex haha

[@justinvalentine7544]

Has anybody besides me ever considered a skull for dual wielding without having the need to tamper with the sandbox? like once you activate the skull, the Player & enemy Elites (not all) now have the ability to dual wield. I don't know why ppl are making this more complicated than it is. They already did the Scarab Skull for H2 MCC and we all know how imbalanced that thing is so I don't see why 343 can't just do it for dual wielding.

[@yaboiyaboy9980]

Duel wielding needs to return for one simple reason: It's fun. It's exactly what a super soldier in a power suit would do. Halo is awesome because it makes you feel like a Spartan, and nothing feels more spartan like then jumping over a hunter or a brute with two smgs and doing a 360 while you dodge their deadly swipes. They should just figure out how to balance it, not just throw the mechanic away.

[@2fangz296]

Couldn't have said it better myself. It just feels lazy to throw it away rather than fix it.

[@CheckeredPony]

id fix it by changing the accuracy and recoil of the weapons by how you wield them. if you hold a gun in 2 hands you obviously have more control over it giving you an insensitive to switch back to single wield, let say dual wielding SMG gives you double the damage and recoil but half the accuracy so at medium range your rather of with one SMG over 2 but in close range its the opposite keeping the 2nd weapon slot for long range weapons such as the BR, this change will add a level of deepness to the gameplay loop that will benefit high skilled play and the E sports scene

[@valorthefox]

I think the best way to implement Dual wielding would be by maybe some kind of perk or special rule on certain game modes, that way anyone who wants to stay to on the core base of the game would just avoid the modes with that option available.

[@Monsuco]

One option that I haven't heard people talk about is you could just have dual wielding be an armor ability. I'm not fond of armor abilities or Spartan abilities as a concept but you could make it so that it takes up an armor ability. You could have it be turned on in some matches and turned off in others. You could do a couple of things to semi-nerf weapons when being dual-wielded. Having a bloom effect that kicked in when you were dual wielding but not when you were single wielding and noticably increasing reload times could work and while it wouldn't make much sense from a realism point of view, slightly reducing weapons damage when a weapon is being dual-wielded might also do some good (damage x0.8 or x0.7). Different rates of fire for dual wielding versus single wielding is also plausible. You can also do some things to make melee or grenades a bit more appealing. The goal is you want certain situations where dual wielding will win and certain situations where it will lose. Moderately distanced hallways where players tend to meet each other a little bit of a ways away outside of melee range but not too far away is where it might come in use. Hallways that have lots of corners or where players tend to meet up close means that grenades and melee would be too valuable and open areas where players are far away the better accuracy of single wielding would be too valuable.

[@decepticonpecock]

Nearly all the proposed fixes I see here seem to be treating it as a question of how to make holding twice as many guns work. I say flip it on it's head, treat the classic dual welding combos (which in my case means doubling up on SMGs, Needlers, OR Plasma Rifles) and just have them function as a single weapon system. having to cut down on SMG power because I hopped in a vehicle sucks and if I wasn't planning to hose down my targets with a huge volume of close in fire I wouldn't be dual welding anyway. Having two guns stick together no matter how badly they're tossed around by explosions is no more immersion breaking than walking past your own corpse after respawn and 90% of the appeal of dual wielding comes from the mix of style points and brute force firepower so I don't see why we shouldn't be talking about sidestepping the entire question of how to handle holding two guns at once by treating them as though they were a singular weapon in every other respect.

[@samheasmanwhite]

I think the only reasonable routes would be to either alter the damage only during dual wielding (kinda bad), or to massively decrease the accuracy, which would be balanced on many maps but tight indoor maps would leave it overpowered as basically a full auto shotgun.

[@josephbianchi3542]

I honestly think there was nothing wrong with it. I still would prefer a BR and using grenades, but the option in close quarters was nice. Halo 2 will forever be the best halo.

[@diegozepeda6556]

Couldn't you keep good damage when handling one weapon, and when dual-wielding just make the crosshairs/reticle larger, or with greater bloom?

[@AscendHyperion]

There's a couple pitfalls there. One, your damage potential would be CRAZY high, but likewise DW would still be unfavorable in a ranged weapon controlled meta

[@mikeyahl7363]

Perfect Dual-Wielding: + Allows Meleeing + Allows ADS + Allows independent Firing/Reloading - Disables use of Grenades - Disables use of Equipment - Reduces Accuracy/increases Recoil - Slows Reloading

[@RonkeyRong]

I've made a rebalanced mod where I revised all the gameplay mechanics on Halo 2's mp maps. Made changes to movement, bullet magnetism, bullet velocity, clip sizes, damage of weapons, and tried to carve out niches for some weapons like the brute shot(slower rof and velocity but stronger damage) and plasma rifle(beefed up the stun mechanic seen last on Halo 1). It took a lot of changes to make it feel like multiple guns are viable in different scenarios vs the BR only meta that seemed to prevail Halo 2. Halo 3 is a totally different beast that I don't think I'll ever attempt a rebalance mod for

[@Kekktye]

It seems like the best solution would just be to add melee and grenade function to duel wielding? I'm not entirely understanding your point in its relation to automatic weapons. I understand that in comparison to the AR alone, duel weapons would be superior but that doesn't make ARs unviable, it just makes a sliding scale. Single weapon < AR < duels. This is a completely balanced system if it weren't both for the grenade and melee issue and the fact that SMGs are so common in Halo 2 and Halo 3 SMG playlists, making ARs unviable because of the SMG's abundance. I'd argue that Halo 3's duels system is entirely balanced gunplay-wise, just as the dev said, it discouraged people from using melee and grenades which would be enough to remove it entirely. With ODST, they decided to do that. With Reach, they decided to just follow ODST's example rather than implement melee and grenades as the easier option for an already packed-full game. Not expecting for 343 to implement it at this point, but it would be a pretty unaltering mechanic that I just think a lot of fans would be up for again. After all, if it follows the rule of cool, and it isn't all that detrimental as a feature, it's just nice to have. Anyways, amazing video! Haven't watched a Halo essay this well put together in a while.

[@jalakor]

Dual Wielding in my opinion could be viable if they took the balance mindset they had and said instead of two 50% effective weapons becoming a 100% effective weapon together, it would be two 75% effective weapons coming together to complement to a 150% effective weapon combo, if that makes sense. The precision weapon meta is unlikely to go away entirely, but you could make it so that other weapons stand a chance when they’re employed in their respective ranges and scenarios. Also, allow players to melee and grenade without dropping their weapons 🤦‍♂️ Side note, one unfortunate part about Dual Wielding was its lasting side effects on the dual wielded weapons, they all were CONSIDERABLY weak going forward. The AR had to wait til 4 to be not shit, the Plasma Rifle didn’t do squat damage in any scenario unless you overheated it, the Magnum was completely outclassed by the other, bigger precision weapons (because it had no advantage to it, less damage, still has to deal with the delay of being brought up after sprinting, switching to it is just as quick as other weapons, making it not a reliable and quick sidearm that you can switch to when you run out of ammo), the Spiker never became good, the SMG (in ODST, I’m not sure how 5 is, I lack a console) became just a slightly better H3 AR, and the Needler wasn’t really strong again until 4 came.

[@madhopz]

easiest decision for me would limit what weapons can be dual wielded *together*. either by ensuring you can only carry two of the same gun, or have to carry two different guns. that way you dont need to magnums to reach the full power of a magnum, and are encouraged instead swap out melee and grenade for a plasma rifle or something. dual wield could have a lot of strategy and synergy second cut would likely to ensure you cant reload while dual wielding. not only does it just make sense since your hands are full, but its just more exciting to pick up a weapon, unload a mag then drop it to keep fighting. it would also give battery powered weapons a new aspect since they can be cooled byt other guns cant reload i feel like the approach to infinites gameplay adding new features like smartlink and sprint, but subdued to serve as a flourish to gameplay rather than an essential, could work REALLY well with quick 5 second dual wielding bursts mid combat

[@MajatekYT]

Sad to see it go, but it was necessary due to how it was implemented. How can it be made viable? Add a button that combines your weapons. If you carry two dual wieldable weapons (with one holstered), the button equips both of them. Otherwise if it's a two-handed weapon like the Battle Rifle it just makes you do a cool weapon trick animation. *Lengthy controller layout and mechanics breakdown below:* *Left Trigger:* Zoom (single-wield), Fire Secondary (dual-wield) *Right Trigger:* Fire Primary *Left Bumper:* Crouch (more accurate moving than on the left thumbstick) *Right Bumper:* Use Grenades *Left Thumbstick Click:* Toggle Dual Wield Mode (do a weapon trick if not applicable) *Right Thumbstick Click:* Melee (precise aim isn't needed here) *A:* Jump *B:* Swap Grenades *X:* Action/Reload (with action, in dual wield mode your primary is swapped with the weapon you pick up) *Y:* Swap Weapons (this swaps which hands your weapons are in while using the dual wield mode) It's balanced because you're trading being able to zoom and have a backup/holstered weapon with being able to use two dual wieldable weapons at the same time. It also allows for picking and choosing, like true dual wielding should allow you to, without being too clunky (just press Y in order to juggle your dual wielded guns if you're holding, say, an empty Needler in your left hand, and a Magnum in your right hand, and you want to swap your Needler with a fresh Plasma Pistol that's on the ground in front of you). I realise this is lacking Sprint, but I hate Sprint and want to bring Halo back to its former glory. Either dual wielding or Sprint has to go as there frankly aren't enough face buttons on an Xbox controller.

[@Alex06CoSonic]

Heya. Game Designer here. To answer the question at the end - I wouldn't. But if I had to, in a put-two-guns-to-my-head-and-threaten-me type of situation - I would take a bite out of Halo Infinite's proverbial sandwich and "tone it down". Much like how Sprint was toned down to an "utility" mechanic, I would tone down dual wielding by doing something completely and absolutely original - adding more weapons to the sandbox. You heard me folks! In all honesty, I would add a new set of weapons that ARE the dual wield weapons, but aren't dual-wield-able. So, essentially, you'd have magnum that can only be single-wielded, an AR that sort of serves as the single-wield SMG, and so on. Essentially, "Dual Wielding" would be simply a way for players to mix up two different weapons, at half the power of each. You sacrifice SOME power on each weapon, for more variety in terms of weapon firing. HOWEVER, I'm not convinced it would be a quality or fun experience at all. And again - now you have an even bigger "redundancy" problem, which might just cause people NOT to even consider dual wielding weapons. At which point I'd ask - why even have dual wielding, in that case?

[@EA_SP0RTCENTER]

I think people are thinking about this way too hard. Dual wield is a staple of the franchise. Dual wielding is neither overpowered nor totally useless. So why was it cut? (Don't say 'golden triangle' because that argument is debunked by a single extra button press) Dual wield stayed cut only so 343 could justify their objectively sub par sandbox, and to somehow shoehorn ADS where it was never needed. Not everything has to be "super balanced" otherwise halo 3 would have never been as popular as it was. Idk why this is hard for people to wrap their head around.

[@ThaRadioActiveDude]

i feel like in Reach there is a dual wielding animation for atleast the Elites. in campaign and firefight you"ll sometimes see Elites (basically any elite except generals, minors and field marshalls) dual wielding plasma rifles. so i'd assume that it's in the game files but only animated for certain elites in certain situations. it's also only plasma rifles, no other weapons. so if someone were able to access the original game files they could probably extract it to spartans. yes, i there are mods, i know

[@shofarsogood7504]

Some ideas could just follow logic of the real world: significantly reduced accuracy/ dexterity, make reload times crazy long or just no reloads during dual wielding, an arm fatigue timer etc. the mechanics of these changes of course might be too code intensive or just not worth it.