Why High Stats Aren't Everything - The Quagsire Theorem

[@FalseSwipeGaming]

Also shoutouts to the top comment of the Bastiodon Theorem from @Delta lord. We had this idea once we finished making the Bastiodon Theorem and you smart viewers predicted us!

[@biohammer1464]

Hi

[@dux5525]

Hi

[@darianclark3980]

Can we do a Ninjask Theorem next? Like Pokemon with Incredible High Speed always find a Niche!

[@roninwarriorsfan]

@@darianclark3980 how about "How Good was Terrakion actually?" instead >:V

[@quimartolas12]

Hoping that the mewtwo video remake has a good amount of research into each generation

[@smugsneasel]

I just imagine all the legendaries in the uber tier roaring, howling, or shouting, and Quagsire's just there slowly opening his mouth going "Quuuuaaaaag"

[@somehistorynerd]

QUAAAAAAAAAG

[@HawkBreland]

Quag moment

[@fsanmiguel666]

Who else but Quagsire?

[@rios5944]

@@fsanmiguel666 Lechonk

[@jasinfinity]

quaaaaag

[@techknight3753]

"Turns out being the god of Pokemon has no effect on those who are ignorant." Now THAT is a quote

[@richcantgame]

“What’s a king to a god? What’s a god to a non believer?”

[@pokebladers1002]

​@@richcantgame then gets owned 💀

[@watchdog4454]

@@richcantgameif ur gonna quote a song at least pick a good one

[@pokebladers1002]

@@watchdog4454 what? It's a tfs reference

[@richcantgame]

@@pokebladers1002 It’s a Kanye reference

[@intellygent-alienking5651]

The fact that Quagsire of all Pokemon can check Zacian is just incredible

[@yerfriendlyneighborhoodsco3337]

*gets a building breaking, god slaying hit to the face* ...quagggg

[@sharkronical]

and now Clodsire is checking Miraidon (although it got better stats spread)

[@WillyLongLegs]

"Gets hit by the Zmove light that Burns the Sky AT +6 spa,30% damage dealt" QUAGGGG

[@dvdv4270]

It’s even funnier when considering it is a PU mon in gen 8 with a niche in literally every tier it is legal on

[@IgnitedQuils]

A smiling salamander standing calmly with its hands on its belly tanks an attack from an attack boosted ancient fairy doggo with a sword in its mouth. I’ve seen enough.

[@loveheart115]

“Being the god of Pokémon has no effect on those that are ignorant” is a raw ass line to use in the context of quagsire But look at him. He’s shaped like friend. Of course he’s good

[@theherohartmut]

What's a mob to a king? What's a king to a god? What's a god to a non-believer?

[@matoiryuko9444]

@@theherohartmut a normal being because he's unaware of it existence and just doing what is capable to do ignore everything and just existing

[@Naito9874]

Came here looking for this comment

[@fishraposo7192]

That has some massive "I'm not wearing any diamonds" energy

[@Doomshroom8]

Yes. Good.

[@beebobber546]

In Gen 16 with Ultra Mega Giga Rayquaza in OU, Quagsire will still fluctuate to the tier every other month.

[@zanwrightmfwr756]

Would be funny though

[@anthonyk240]

Wdym? Ultra Mega Giga Rayquaza has three abilities in one. Delta Stream, Moxie, and Mold Breaker.

[@flygonathome]

​@Anthony Kim sounds mid. I bet my level 1 rat could beat it

[@Squirtle_Squad_Supremacy]

​@@anthonyk240 not Moxie, reusable Battle Bond.

[@anthonyk240]

​@@flygonathome Rayquaza naturally learns e speed so you'll need 2 rats.

[@Zthewise]

Seeing quagsire take hits from titans like Arceus and Zacian and be able to swing back will always bring a smile to my face.

[@hessiankyojin]

Attack on Quagsire

[@yasd8493]

​@Sniper 🤨

[@notrelatedtobacon1282]

​@Sniper wouldnt that be "in" not "no" for lore reasons?

[@notrelatedtobacon1282]

@Sniper it's all good 👍as long as you're using it for the right purposes and not something silly like battling or having it as a pet....

[@huyphan7825]

Zacian: "I am... INEVITABLE." Quagsire: "And I.... DON'T CARE."

[@risemiria5603]

Zacian deprived of all its buffs: "You took everything from me!" Quagsire in its own little world: "I don't even know who you are."

[@xaropevic7918]

@@risemiria5603 I am UNAWARE of who you are

[@TehGenericGuy]

Zacian boosting his stats Quagsire: what the dog doing

[@theREALsilviautism]

random uber pokemon: i just set up 6 swords dances! now i will be invincible!!! quagsire / clodsire: uhmmm...nuh uh

[@HamSamWizard]

Zacian and Arceus with +6 all stats: You can’t defeat me! Other Pokémon: I know… but he can quagsire: quag

[@miqvPL]

You didn't mention how huggable Quagsire is, which is an important part of the theorem

[@Ampheline]

If not friend why friend shaped?

[@hamburgerman531]

Quagsire is a beautiful creature. I will squish

[@block827]

hes a squishy friend

[@Official_ViperYT]

He's shaped like a friend, and clodsire is even more friend shaped, perfect pokemon

[@skeetermania3202]

Too bad he’ll probably slip from your grasp.

[@GarrettEulett]

My favorite theorem is the Porygon-Z Theorem: Any theoretical change to Porygon-Z or any major change to Pokémon as a whole can and will make Porygon-Z broken. Go ahead, try and buff Porygon-Z in a way that won't send it to Ubers.

[@Inserteggpunshere]

the broken duck stays on top 👑

[@bluebaron6811]

Give it Protean. I dare you, Game Freak.

[@Inserteggpunshere]

@@bluebaron6811 Give it Boomburst and watch the world burn.

[@ctoooc]

With ~90-99 speed its not too broken

[@grunkleg.2934]

1 more base Attack point

[@dim4757]

Don't forget that there's a Quagsire character in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity. He's shown as being extremely laid back but is also supposedly very strong and had numerous exploration feats and is even feared by certain criminals lol.

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

Outlaw: uses violent seed Quagsire: You are strong child… but I am beyond strength. *tanks hit as if the violent seed didn’t exist*

[@Kleintastic]

So they're Sans?

[@MarceloOmegaAGDM]

*She

[@gogetablue942]

True successor to Wigglytuff

[@Not_interestEd-]

Hmmm?

[@doubl2480]

Quagsire walling the most dangerous Pokemons for 3 generations is amazing. Being THE Zacian check is just wow. Put some damn respect on the Sire.

[@netweed09]

Zacian's Attack being reduced by 20 base Power is not Zacian anymore. I don't count nerfed Mon, that's just cheating basically.

[@naptotal1651]

Now quag got outclassed by the new starter in that role💀

[@GottaBeMurph-V2]

Clodsire approaches.

[@ramblincapuchin9075]

I appreciate that essentially Quagsire's conception plays into his profile. Being a water/ground type everything significant is nullified. Paralysis, poison, burns, etc Then they added abilities that compliment its nature. This is peak monster design, taking what exists in the game and giving you incentive to explore its inner workings

[@chrisk1039]

@@netweed09 Quagsire walled it before the nerf too. +1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 144-171 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Crowned needs a crit to break through or quag sits on it with recover, even before the nerf. The only Zacian that really can deal with quag is banded normal zacian +1 252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 195-229 (49.4 - 58.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery But if you hit quag that hard you reveal you're banded and then you can get swapped around on. If you're scarfed instead you get sat on again. +1 252+ Atk Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 129-153 (32.7 - 38.8%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO Plus I believe it was generally though of that normal Zacian was significantly worse in AG than Crowned so sitting on crowned so easily was still very very useful, enough to give the mon a viability ranking in a metagame that was absolutely nuts in power

[@TheHero136]

Let’s also not forget that when the terrifying Moody Bibarel was released, Quagsire was pretty much the only thing that could actually stop it reliably by using Encore to punish it and Unaware to ignore its insane stat boosts.

[@smievil]

it's not simple

[@Nullmeo]

Quagsire's lowkey an inspiration, in that it does well despite its low stats. Kinda like how some people excel despite their shortcomings and weaknesses.

[@gutsmasterson2488]

Quagsire is the hero we need but not what we deserve.

[@fennecfoxfanatic]

*despite their grass weakness

[@blackpow3r]

Agreed! Most of us are average people, but can develop a niché and become unique and do something special.

[@aa-tx7th]

but in rl AND in pokemon there are far far far FAR more pidgeys and caterpies than quasires out there :/

[@jaotrx7163]

And just imagine gamefreak give him an actual evolution and actual GOOD stats

[@lucasm1633]

I propose the Regigigas Theorem, for cases where extraordinary pokemon are stifled by one crippling factor, for example Regigigas, Slowking, Kyurem Black, or gen 9 Blissey/Chansey

[@rossthemoss6827]

Slowking about to tell you a bad joke for mixing it up with slaking

[@victorlinares4137]

I think theyre discussed in the rampardos vid

[@pinkerycelebi]

and Hoopa-U too. that thing wasnt even ou in gen 7

[@krullachief669]

It's essentially the Rampardos and Bastiodon theorems taken to their logical conclusion on either side of the spectrum. I actually kinda like it.

[@nicolasturetta7959]

Slaking instead of slowking i suppose*

[@lumineonlover7780]

I love that goofy Water/Ground types just ignore tiers all of Quagsire, Gastrodon and Seismitoad all have the most random tiering placements

[@frankwest5388]

The only water ground Mon that makes sense in its placing is Swampert, because it is just good as a defensive Mon, that threatens offensively. No gimmicks needed The others however are untierable because of all the weird things about them

[@Jollofmuncher2000]

​@@frankwest5388 water ground has got to be the only type combo with multiple Pokémon that are all great

[@The_Moodi]

Even funnier is that if even shitty pokemon has a ability like dry skin or water absorb (only 5 gen and later gens) It will somehow always have nieche in ubers just to harass kyogre. Like even Parasect was able to harass kyogre with spore and dry skin.

[@ashikjaman1940]

Shoutouts to when Seismitoad was almost the only thing stopping Gen 8 OU from collapsing in on itself

[@nicolasturetta7959]

Water/ground was a godsend of type combination such Amazing pokemons even with 530< BST

[@benjaminsmull2034]

The fact that Quagsire’s walling capabilities can stifle Kings and Gods alike is truly an inspiration to us all.

[@FlyyKaRizZmA]

Its “LORD” Quagsire to you mortal!

[@Not_interestEd-]

"I am your creator, now BOW before my almighty presence!" _everything kneels_ "You. Blue blob in the back. Kneel. Now." "Quaaaaggg :D" "Fine, have it your way." "Quaag? :/" "J U D G E M E N T !" "Quaaaug D:" "wtf..."

[@shadowtitanx3962]

Now, add Clodsire in the picture.

[@deltalord6969]

Quagsire showing us all that even the most benign of Pokémon can stare down a god and still have no idea what's going on.

[@brunop.8745]

"What is a god to a nonbeliever" - Quagsire, if it was even aware that he's fighting a god at all

[@LonesomeDevil]

Whenever someone use the expression "no thoughts, head empty", I'm always picturing Quagsire's face.

[@9Destra]

In PLA, I decided to use Whiscash. It brought Dialga and Giratina to their knees

[@craniifer]

@@9Destra Whiscash is surprisingly underrated.

[@theskullboy8700]

“I like your funny dances onion ring goat” -Quagsire probably

[@weatherreport3249]

Gen 9 Murkrow not getting a mention is odd. It definitely deserves a mention for how ridiculously good it was in early Scarlet and Violet VGC doubles.

[@SomeAsian]

Unevolved or NFE Pokemon could have their own video like this at this point

[@randomcatname7792]

Was? Not is? What happened?

[@weatherreport3249]

@@randomcatname7792 It's still present but not as dominant. He was #1 now he's #31. Paradox Pokemon and better tailwind setters that can do damage and other stuff.

[@Connor_Cildaig]

​@@randomcatname7792 Talonflame

[@CaptainJLinebeck]

​@@randomcatname7792 Gen 9 has been great to Talonflame pretty much

[@Marblesoda821]

Seeing Quagsire on this after finding a shiny one is just the cream of the crop

[@gutsmasterson2488]

Round of applause!

[@BladeOfLight16]

I think you mean "icing on the cake." "Cream of the crop" means "among the best out of a very large pool of possible choices."

[@catboysephiroth560]

He is the Messiah!

[@jessehunter362]

@@BladeOfLight16 i think you mean "best of the best". "Cream of the crop" refers to the milk-like liquid produced by the throat of parental pigeons, penguins, and flamingos to act as milk for their chicks.

[@PrinceTalonSabre]

​@@BladeOfLight16 They could have meant exactly that as well tho. Quagsire is the best example out of all the other mons mentioned, and like, you'd rather have a shiny over a non-shiny, assuming they are otherwise the same, right? That's cream of the crop if i ever seen it. 🙂

[@larsweise7866]

Actually Nidoking got it's Attacke Stat buffed in Gen 6 by 10 points. Thus it still counts for the first 5 Generations.

[@Rose-ez7yn]

the thing is nidoking didn't see ou success until gen 6

[@Allstaar1117]

@@Rose-ez7yn not true

[@Rose-ez7yn]

@@Allstaar1117 my bad, i was primarily thinking about it in generation 5. It was an important part of the gsc ou metagame

[@Cr3zant]

@@Rose-ez7yn Every pokemon had good stats in GSC because of stat exp though.

[@Rose-ez7yn]

@@Cr3zant no, they had maxed out stats, not good necessarily. stuff like gsc snorlax actually has less attack than adamant max atk snorlax in adv and onwards because of how dvs + natures work. of course this means pokemon have more flexibility due to being both physically and specially defensive and physically and specially offensive, but they have the same stats

[@krinias1699]

To this day, one of my favourite quotes on this channel comes from the end of the Quagsire video: "So how good was Quagsire actually? Man, I don't f*cking know." So I'm glad this happy blue blob finally gets his own theorem.

[@amateraceon5202]

Would Wobbuffet or Dugtrio be a better example for an “Abilities Are Everything” theorem video?

[@Savariable]

I'd say dugtrio personally

[@xandero8444]

Probably Wobbuffet. Dugtrio is still useable, if unspectacular, without arena trap, while Wobbuffet is nothing without shadow tag.

[@brunop.8745]

This video itself is entirely comprised of otherwise below average mons being (almost) entirely carried by their Ability I kid you not, people would try _Ledian_ in OU if it had Magic Bounce

[@Zthewise]

don't forget magnet pull. trapping enemy scizor to melt them with HP fire.

[@leftistdegeneratejs]

Zero to hero and contrary serperior comes to mind

[@leitniear14]

"Turns out being the god of Pokémon has no effect on those that are ignorant" is such a hard line

[@iantaakalla8180]

“What’s a god to a non-believer that don’t believe in anybody” - Frank Ocean, No Church In The Wild

[@DerpySuX]

I’m surprised venomoth and azumarill weren’t mentioned, those are two mons that immediately come to mind when I think of effectiveness not being tied solely to BST

[@DracoX-hz3tu]

Azumaril I get but venomoth? When was that thing ever good in OU?

[@agustinberto6138]

Azu has 100 base HP, and that technically disqualifies it, also the video seems to have focused on defensive Pokémon cases

[@DerpySuX]

@@agustinberto6138 riiight forgot about azu’s hp LOL. Fair enough

[@DerpySuX]

@@DracoX-hz3tu not specifically OU but it managed to rip up UU pretty fiercely in gen 7 and even got banned from it in gen 6 for a time. I’d say that’s worth something

[@piratebear3126]

@@DracoX-hz3tu Venomoth can punch above its weight with Quiver Dance and Bug Buzz, which essentially can’t be resisted due to Tinted Lens. And since it only needs 2 moves for its own offensive presence, it can slot in Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, and Baton Pass in the other two slots to support its teammates. Hugely underrated Pokemon.

[@pixaln]

Scizor is a great example of how abilities and type matchups determine more about a mon than anything else. STAB technician bullet punch is another example. Like I mean scyther when evolving into scizor literally doesn’t get a stat boost. It’s type and abilities just change and it makes it a threat

[@familyneves9777]

Yeah! And then there's...Kleavor.

[@mrtrollnator123]

​@@familyneves9777💀🙏

[@Terry_T_ODST]

6:35 it's also worth pointing out that Klefki is (almost) singlehandedly responsible for the confusion nerf in gen 7 due to swagplay (which was also banned to ubers in gen 6) AND outranked mega Rayquaza in Anything goes when the tier formed 😂 Klefki is a true quagsire indeed 💙

[@bluekirby_64]

How was confusion nerfed?

[@Terry_T_ODST]

@@bluekirby_64 they lowered the chance of the mon hitting itself from 50% to 33% in gen 7, effectively neutering the viability of moves like swagger and flatter

[@bluekirby_64]

@@Terry_T_ODST Wow, yeah that's a bit too much. Thanks

[@asierx7047]

Klefki got so much swag mega rayquaza couldn't handle it

[@skeetermania3202]

@@Terry_T_ODSTI’d argue Thundurus was more responsible due to VGC.

[@shokocontane594]

How about The Starmie Theorem? Well designed pokemon from an earlier gen that always finds a way to adapt to powercreep either by being able to cover many different roles through their movepool or by still doing great at what they do best.

[@bdt2002gaming]

In OU: Starmie, Gengar, Zapdos, Scizor (particularly from Gen 4 onwards), Tyranitar, and the Pink Blobs prior to Gen 9 In Ubers: Mewtwo, Kyogre & Groudon (provided the Primal forms help a lot in this regard), Arceus, and a surprising amount of non-Ubers Steel-Types

[@yuvalwh]

The one channel that listens to the viewers, so many people requested this and you delivered, awesome as always!

[@nezajmenezajme4506]

By me, very appriciated. But deserves to be much more appriciated.

[@IgnitedQuils]

Looks like that one question in the Bastiodon Theorem video ended up being analyzed!

[@rinkusan978]

They had it planned before the requests it seems

[@rdxgamer1772]

​@@rinkusan978 still gave the person a shoutout all the same tho

[@KeyboardKlutz_0]

Another pokemon that almost fits this is Masquerain. Despite it's poor typing, Masquerain has one of the best move pools of any bug type, with quiver dance giving it substantial setup and various different types of attacks to use in conjunction with it, even water and ice type attacks with solid type coverage and sticky web combined with intimidate gave it some serious potential even before its buff in gen 7.

[@zpooky6076]

this comment was sponsored by the Guzma Fan Club

[@Low_Tier_Elf]

Masquerain being bug-water is the buff we needed.

[@skeetermania3202]

Hell, it even gets Baton Pass.

[@deft__12]

Soon we’re gonna need the Regice/Silvally Theorem, where high stats/BST AREN’T everything.

[@DoctorFalchion]

@@mrsuperheatran2794 What? Silvally is base 95 across the board.

[@mrsuperheatran2794]

​​@@DoctorFalchion Shoot. Why was I thinking 80? I'll just delete the comment. I feel stupid.

[@HawkBreland]

@@mrsuperheatran2794 don't worry about it bro, no need to beat yourself up

[@LandenKizer]

the goodra theorem who is a pseudo-legendary but provides no value

[@Pacmanfan-po9rn]

​@@LandenKizer until H-Goodra that is

[@Chucky_Martinez]

Quagsire's being "Oblivous" and their ability to be "Unaware" really "Leftover's" so much in the competitive scene that's it's incredible they had "Recover" from their antics.

[@janehrahan5116]

You deserve an encore. Such commentary is truly scalding..I don't think a better catalog of puns could be stockpiled

[@abraham-kun4144]

Smeargle can also enter on Quagsire Theorem, he has very low stats, but he's good as a support Pokemon, having Spikes, Spore, Toxic Spikes, Spider Web, etc. Oh yeah, also for boosting his stats and passing to other Pokemon with Baton Pass. But that's coping that moves with Sketch, ofc.

[@hoshi314]

There is an argument that smeargle was responsible for the death of Darkrai with the dark void getting brutally nerfed to the ground

[@Mewseeker]

@@hoshi314 Darkrai : "You took everything from me!" Smeargle : "I don't even know who you are!"

[@abraham-kun4144]

Oh yeah, originally Dark Void had 80 accuracy, but from Gen 7, was nerfed to 50 accuracy.

[@ashikjaman1940]

​@@abraham-kun4144 they should just remove accuracy tbh

[@SteveIsHavingMC]

i will forever hate smeargle for taking away darkrai's signature move and turning it into yet another fast dark type special attacker with no flavor.

[@KenshinPlayz57]

I think we need the porygon2 or murkrow theorem, where evolving doesn't mean a pokemon is better

[@omnipresentcatgod245]

It actually does for porygonZ

[@KenshinPlayz57]

@@omnipresentcatgod245 not necessarily, porygon-z is a special attacking speedy powerhouse with bad bulk, while porygon2+eviolite is a defensive tank

[@oofjeff3735]

Tier wise, usually does. I think u mean unevolved mons are still useable

[@ashikjaman1940]

Dusclops theorem

[@TheShinyFeraligatr]

Murkrow actually did get noticeably better in Gen 4 due to Honch, who got banned fairly quickly from UU once the tier became a real one instead of a fake one. And Dusclops itself was only good in Gen 3 due to this (being basically the origin of this theorem, having something like a full 100 base stats worse than the several-tiers-lower Pidgeot) and actually did get better in Gen 4 with Dusknoir

[@christendo5733]

I do wish Breloom got an honorable mention, but still an outstanding video as always. My face melted when you said sheer force Nidoking ignores life orb recoil when using moves with secondary effects, I didn't think that was possible.

[@jessejames6915]

Breloom has a higher base atk stat than base Zacian tho so i dont think it qualifies here 😅

[@agustinberto6138]

​@@jessejames6915 wow didn't know they had nerfed Zacian and Zacian-C on top of the intrepid sword nerf, but I'd like to point this out: "As high in gen 8🤓👆"

[@christendo5733]

@Jesse James well yeah, that's why I said make Breloom an honorable mention. XD He mentioned Dugtrio and Gastrodon, who have 120 speed and 111 HP respectively.

[@ashikjaman1940]

The Sheer Force Life Orb interaction is definitely a glitch that they just never patched out tbh

[@michaeltrinidad5825]

Quagsire/Clodsire being the hard counter of Kyogre Zacian and now Miridon is so beautiful to me.

[@bluebaron6811]

My favorite example of this theorem is Dugtrio. It was so good that when they banned it in gen 5, people started using Diglett. And it is still a niche pick in Ubers because it's Ground STAB and trapping potential is so valuable.

[@ciaranpatrick6859]

It has high speed though

[@bluebaron6811]

@@ciaranpatrick6859 that don't matter when a single spitball sends it to the emergency room.

[@ciaranpatrick6859]

@@bluebaron6811 that is not what the theorem is about, which is pokemon with bad stats. Dugtrio doesn’t have amazing stats but it definitely has a fantastic speed stat. None of these other Pokémon have good stats like that. And it being frail is irrelevant. Pheromosa is also very frail but no sane person would ever say it has bad stats.

[@bluebaron6811]

@@ciaranpatrick6859 bro, he specifically mentioned Dug in his honorable mentions.

[@ciaranpatrick6859]

@@bluebaron6811 there’s a reason it wasn’t in the main part of the video lol, it having high speed is a big part of what it does

[@DAFORCEFilms]

- Carve out niche in Ubers - Break the meta and the minds of competitive players - Unaware what’s going on - Prank everybody through sheer force of chance - Wander back to untiered

[@lvl5Vaporeon]

Speaking of stats, anyone still find it kinda strange that Shedinja has a defense and a special defense stat that isnt like 0?

[@Luragon9876]

It actually matters... if you baton-pass a substitute to your Shedinja.

[@fullmetalzombieeater]

HAHAHA never thought about that

[@Metalawesome]

If a Ditto or Mew uses Transform on a Shedinja, they won't copy Shedinja's HP but will copy the rest of its stats

[@notshockwavedemon7543]

I remember mew shedinja with 400 HP lol

[@IgnitedQuils]

I assume it’s to match similarly with Nincada and Ninjask. It has the same physical stats as Ninjask, and then the same special stats and speed as Nincada.

[@qorv4973]

Id love to see the "Dragapult theorem" for those who prefer a lower attacking stat because of coverage/stab options

[@kyokoyonaga9803]

So a Nidoking theorem ?

[@fryrr4797]

Great idea. Lucario, Nidoking, Landorus-incarnate, and Dragapult would probably be the best examples.

[@Green24152]

​@@fryrr4797wait, people use landorus-I?

[@oscen335]

​@@Green24152if landorus incarnate was legal in OU therian wouls get like 5x less usage. Insane wallbreaker with a 1.69x boost on every single move it gets.

[@Green24152]

@@oscen335 i don't even know what my original comment was because it's gone

[@IgnitedQuils]

Considering how Quagsire was analyzed on this channel 5 years ago, and Kellen mentioning he doesn’t know how good it was, says something. Also with how its Paldean counterpart is in OU due to a different stat distribution and ability to absorb poison/Toxic Spikes.

[@-libertyprimev1-902]

The fact Clodsire is a separate Pokemon (not a "Paladian Quagsire") as well one's Specially Defensive and the other's Physically Defensive makes it that much better.

[@blooberry8999]

Clodsire is a great defensive mon in S&V OU. You can ditch Unaware for Water Absorb just to sit down Walkjng Wake including there high SpDef stat

[@-libertyprimev1-902]

Forgot Clodsire And Quagsire also kept access to Toxic in Gen 9 which isn't nearly as common as it used to be.

[@NorseThunderFox]

​​@@-libertyprimev1-902 It's because quag learned the move by level up

[@-libertyprimev1-902]

@@NorseThunderFox that's the point

[@jackclifton5434]

The Excadrill Theory: when one powerful Pokémon or strategy gets banned, it has a butterfly effect that can span across multiple tiers and flip metagames.

[@llmkursk8254]

I’d almost say a power vacuum, like with Garchomp > Salamence > Dragonite, but the other Sand Rush Pokémon, Sandslash, saw no use.

[@bdt2002gaming]

@@llmkursk8254 Ghost and Dragon-Types are both especially prone to this kind of pattern because of how self-weaknesses work alongside STAB bonus. In practice, the faster Ghosts and Dragons are usually the best because they can more easily play against their competition and defeat them before they themselves are taken out.

[@ashikjaman1940]

The Excadrill theory: when one Mon is cool as hell seriously they really peaked with this little mole guy

[@SeriousStriker]

That's the Baton Pass Theorem.

[@asierx7047]

@@bdt2002gaming Dragapult is one hell of an example due to being both at once

[@HereticsRight]

A dark horse list would be fun, pokemon that no one expected but absolutely blew up at Worlds or something similar. Pachirisu comes to mind.

[@justin4296]

Binacle

[@SilverAlex92]

They did one for pokemon that rose to top tier ou threats long after they're generation ended

[@caldw615]

Pachirisu WAS good in the context of the format it was in though. It's more surprising to people who don't know competitive Pokémon though.

[@mcdonnell-douglasdc-1056]

Huy Ha's Parasect in VGC 2010.

[@pageclayton6850]

Wolfe using Raichu to win worlds

[@zomorion9183]

I'd hope we soon get an Accelgor Theorem on why speed isn't everything. A pokemon with high speed and nothing else gets destroyed by Choice scarfers and setup sweepers. Mons like Ninjask, Accelgor, Sceptile, Electrode, Mega-Beedrill, Zebstrika, Minior, Mega Houndoom, Archeops, Luvdisc (I know it's not super fast, but it's speed is it's best stat and it isn't slow by any means), Sharpedo (not the Mega) etc.

[@rossthemoss6827]

I wouldn't really say Mega Bedrill due to it being a solid mon in UU twice in a row with a 150 atk and being able to pivot easily with U turn against most targets. Poor Electrode though having its one niche stolen by regieleki

[@zomorion9183]

@@rossthemoss6827 I mean, sure Mega Beedrill is easily one of the strongest examples I've given, but considering the last video (Spoilers for the Bastiodon Theorem video if you haven't watched it yet), included Shuckle, which had a niche all the way in Ubers, Mega Beedrill seems like a worthy candidate to me. But take it or leave it, we've got plenty of speedy bois to talk about in an "Accelgor Theorem" video.

[@DarkSymphony777]

to be fair with ninjask. people did use it for it's speed just.....noth the type of speed people really liked. damn baton pass

[@gusteen3292]

I prefer calling it the Electrode theory, it had the highest crit chance in rby, but no one uses it

[@zomorion9183]

@@gusteen3292 False Swipe specifically called out Accelgor as an underwhelming fast Mon in their Greninja video, so I figured it'd be more consistent. But Electrode theory works too.

[@avch1209]

before Torkoal had an ability that nullified stat increases but now he is more useful with the ability that makes the battlefield sunny

[@breloommaster12]

*stat decreases

[@gio9255]

You didn't even mention the original Quagsire. Golduck. Golduck is average by design but has a incredible movepool and abilities to back it up. Golduck never got used in the higher tiers due to it being outclassed by so many other bulky and offensive waters. However, it had niches in Ubers due to its ability to beat Groudon and the previous king of Ubers Primal Groudon 1v1 thanks to cloud nine's utility alone. On the offensive spectrum, the Ducks core in Sun and Moon was legendary. These theorem videos are outstanding. I hope there are more to come in the future.

[@SteveIsHavingMC]

actually golduck had AG use as a way to counter mega rayquaza with cloud nine and ice beam too! also the groudon thing, golduck is awesome

[@ravenscar6348]

While it’s not my favorite Pokémon, hearing this puts a smile on my face. In the only nuzlocke I’ve ever completed, little dude made it all the way to the champion of White 2 before falling to an Archeops. It was just as important to me as other strong mons at the time, like Krookodile and Reunicleus. Not as strong, but versatile in its own right. For that, I appreciate the lil’ scrapper. 😌

[@tempestgreen1125]

Right now Golduck is actually extremely good in gen 9 OU! It’s a premier rain sweeper that outclasses Pokémon such as greninja and even walking wake!

[@liamfergusson6151]

I feel like venomoth is a decent candidate for making an extended list. It's highest stats are something like base 90 in sp.atk and speed but it consistently got just enough good buffs to climb the tier lists quite well

[@matthewkuscienko4616]

It helps that it got one of the best boosting moves in the game in the form of quiver dance, as it's actually the second best user of the move after none other than Volcarona. Having access to sleep powder to reliably put things to sleep, tinted lens to make resistances not matter (unless it's 4x), and poison actually becoming a useful type to have offensively thanks to hitting fairy types are all things that make Venomoth a lot better than it appears at first glance

[@IgnitedQuils]

Despite its bad offensive types, limited coverage, its decent speed, utility, Quiver Dance and mainly Tinted Lens are what make it good.

[@ordiman3958]

I think lokix is a better example of the same thing

[@bobvella7228]

the vivillon theorem, when a pokemon is held back mostly by smogon rules

[@skeetermania3202]

@@bobvella7228 How so?

[@thesobieski5081]

thanks for giving props to my favorite pokemon quagsire. what made me fall in love with this pokemon is not only its amazing design and unique typing, but its usefulness in every single tier regardless of meta or what tier it is actually ranked in. it always has a use.

[@MisterJackTheAttack]

Quagsire looks so happy to have a theorem named after him! I am so proud of him!!

[@kentmichaelgalang686]

good thing he isnt unaware of it amirite

[@resurrection7480]

We definetly need a Regigigas theorem explaining how good pokemon can be ruined by bad abilities or an Azumarill/Dugtrio theorem explaining how bad pokemon can be saved by good abilities

[@SYKim_94]

Quagsire is THE epitome of a Pokémon that is extremely useful in spite of its low stars

[@absolutemoron5949]

I've been wondering, would a series covering the history of different metas be something you'd be interested in making? "History of Gen 5 OU" and videos such as that going over how the metas for these different tiers developed over time. Your other vids give me small glimpses into these metagames and I'm very interested in getting a more comprehensive overview!

[@ryleylol929]

Haven't watched the video yet but thank you for taking feedback from the last one and putting the Pokemons stats in this one, appreciate it!

[@JanusHoW]

So, based on the three theorums - Rampardos, Bastiodon, and now Quagsire, it's clear that a Pokemon's Ability is probably the biggest factor for OU viability, followed very closely by good stats. If a Pokemon has at least mediocre stats and an amazing Ability, it will probably find some sort of niche. But if the Pokemon has a horrible Ability (like Regigigas' Slow Star, Slaking's Truant and Archeops' Defeatist), they're doomed to PU or even Untiered no matter how good their stats are.

[@bdt2002gaming]

And then on the other end of the spectrum, there’s stuff like Moody on Pokémon that are designed to be bad otherwise, like Bibarel, Glalie, Octillery, and Scovillain.

[@bobvella7228]

thinking about it like a mon can be blessed in bst, distribution, ability, typing, and movepool, and unpredictability/viable set variety. we know movepool can carry a mon with smeargle, the rest need some synergy though

[@JanusHoW]

@@bobvella7228 Having access to every move in the game except Dark Void kinda outweighs everything else for Smeargle. But if it had an ability like Truant, no one would touch it, no matter how good its move pool.

[@bobvella7228]

@@JanusHoW it'd have skill swap then

[@terminusest9179]

I noticed all of the unique attributed pokemon that fall under this theorem all began with gen 4. Guess Gen 1-3 were just power metas and such.

[@reftd1511]

Gens 1-2 not having abilities makes it kinda hard to not be a stat based meta

[@bdt2002gaming]

Often times the new additions of a generation end up being what define the meta. Some examples I can think of include the Choice Band and Intimidate both helping to shape the physical side of the ADV OU metagame, Terastalizing indirectly benefiting some Pokémon more than others in Gen 9, and Rock-weak Pokémon heavily benefiting from Heavy-Duty Boots starting in Gen 8.

[@gravity_cow]

Quagsire was still doing things in gen 2 and 3 though it was there to shut down gen 2 Raikou and Zapdos when they started getting crazy with the Hidden Power unban, and gen 3 quagsire stuffed Kyogre just as much as gen 4 (see the other Quagsire video) As for gen 1, that generation actually had abilities - just in the form of glitches. And boy did Slowbro reapply Paralysis speed drops all over the place before sweeping But even without actual abilities, there's still room in the gen 1 meta for having just good enough numbers in just the right places. Enter Porygon, whose only business in a tier above NU is being the best and only OU mon capable of switching into and walling Snorlax. Immune to Body Slam paralysis, just tanky enough to not get two shot by any of Snorlax's moves, has Recover and Thunder Wave, and is not worth exploding on. It doesn't work against all Snorlax sets, but against the ones it does (which is a reasonable amount of them), Snorlax can only really hope for a crit (good luck with that), switch out (which Porygon wants), or get PP stalled to oblivion (meaning Porygon did its job). Porygon cannot Quagsire nearly as hard as Quagsire can, but it does have this one Quagsire moment.

[@kaedenjohnson2591]

I love quagsire for his smile, his placing on the third list is just a perk

[@ahha6304]

that's why the first time I play Gold and caught Upa/Wooper I called him *Ha* the face of this genus says it all

[@LaserXP101]

Quagsire is the definition of: It do be like that sometimes

[@RikiazGaming]

I love Quagsire in competitive singles. It is whatever tier it needs to be, and even when it's in lower tiers by usage it nearly always has some niche in OU or Ubers. It's really an inspiration to everyone.

[@sandrahwu]

This and the “5 Pokémon Who Became Good Years Later” video make me feel like we have already gotten the Clefable remake before that inevitable remake 😂.

[@Mugiwara2k]

We need the Dusknoir theorem next; Why gaining an evolution isn't always everything.

[@IgnitedQuils]

*Electivire enters the chat*

[@krullachief669]

Dusknoir, aka "Watch this space, because next gen, Dusclops is gonna be popping."

[@jollyjelly304]

except it does, it gives the prior pokemon viability

[@Mugiwara2k]

@@jollyjelly304 That's the entire point; The pre-evolved Pokemon is better than the evolution, hense the Dusknoir theorem (Since Duskclops is waaaaay better than it's evolution in most cases).

[@MG-mq3zf]

​@@Mugiwara2k Yeah, but the pre-evo wouldn't be able to use evolite without the evolution though.

[@Alex1jag]

FSG: "So how good was Quagsire? Man I don't fucking know". That is still one of my favorite lines in all videos in the channel.

[@Diana-tx2iz]

I literally cheered when Klefki came up. After switching my VGC gen 9 team to having one, it immediately started climbing the ranks faster than ever before, and I haven't regretted it once. If anything, it's putting in just as much work as something like my flutter mane and chi-yu, and has been outright necessary to many wins.

[@LandenKizer]

yet another amazing theorem video, but i have a theorem myself, the goodra theorem where pokémon who have otherwise great stats but provide little to no value. as opposed to the quagsire theorem (also goodra is slimy like quagsire so it kinda keeps the theme). I can't really think of a whole lot of examples of this but it's just an idea for you and your team.

[@SmolGayArtNerd]

Like a tweet I once saw, Unaware is a very funny ability. Your opponent could set up 2 Swords Dances and Quagsire could just be like "What? Sorry I wasn't looking" 😂

[@lukayaba4793]

Espathra would have definitely made the list if it had slightly lower special attack and speed

[@alexandrekuritza5685]

ah I love those Theorems, I wonder if there are anymore to be made and to come off? The Giratina Theorem? Being super-effective to oneself, twice?

[@Fastwalker22]

There's some good examples of this in Little Cup, especially Nymble in gen 9, who managed/manages (idk if its still good don't play LC anymore) to be excellent as a revenge killer and wallbreaker despite a bst of 210.

[@blackpow3r]

Can't lie, Quagsire is probably the most relatable Pokemon of all time which makes it so cool and adored. It's the closest thing to breaking the 4th wall by just looking at you with a blank face and saying "NO" to your boosting tries. Quagsire literally hacks the game and its design is perfect for the Unaware ability. DERP 😭😭

[@mattr75]

It's nice to see that Pokemon don't always have to have high stats to do great

[@briandigiovanni6159]

I'd love to see a chart showing the movement of pokemon between the tiers over time. And when you look at Quagmire, the line just zigzags from top to bottom constantly.

[@jeremyrossi2716]

Might I suggest 4 more theorems that would be related to each other: The Shedinja Theorem: A Pokémon that’s only as good as it is because of its ability (why a good ability can be huge) The Regigigas Theorem: A Pokémon that’s on as bad as it is because of its ability (why a bad ability is crippling) The Machamp Theorem why ability improvements can be everything (how an ability change can drastically make a Pokémon better) The Talonflame Theorem how nerfed abilities impact Pokémon (why a nerfed ability can kill a competitive Pokémon)

[@naganut9718]

The 2nd one is already covered in the Ramphardos theorem video

[@jeremyrossi2716]

@@naganut9718 if I remember correctly the Rampardos and Bastiodon theorems are about Stat allocation and types not abilities. All of the theorems above are ability based.

[@yeet8036]

I mean quagsire theorem is kinda similar to shedinja theorem. Every mon mentions here was carried by their ability. (Expect nidoqueen)

[@jeremyrossi2716]

@@yeet8036 true, I just think that some videos specifically on abilities would probably be a good idea, like an ability tier list or something.

[@Quinnsicott]

i think my favourite example of this theorem might be whimsicott. its stats are incredibly lackluster being a 2nd evolutionary final stage, yet in vgc it's one of the most used support pokemon having stuff like prankster giving priority, leech seed, tailwind, toxic, sub, switcheroo, protect, it's incredibly useful and yet has a bst of only 480 (even infiltrator used to see some use in gen 5)

[@Alfenheimer]

Quag will always be a personal favorite. Unaware Scald Recover stuffed Mega Scizor, and being a Diancie lover, I needed it.

[@sarcosuchusproductions5625]

19:23 missed opportunity to make a who else but quagsire joke

[@GuyFromCanada]

I do greatly enjoy these theory videos. I’m sure there’s lots of different theory and theorem videos one could make. Maybe something on differences between VGC strength and singles strength?

[@mr.penguindrewmateo8146]

Pokémon that are good in singles but not so much in doubles and vice versa would be pretty interesting to see

[@ComradeQuagsire]

I'm a casual player but Quagsire is my favorite Pokemon and I just love seeing him have a weird little niche in competive battles.

[@gatorman5547]

I’m just imagining Quagsire staring into the eyes of Gods and Demons, high as a kite just like “oh I can destroy that”😂

[@NeoKarByne]

It's kinda poetic that Quagsire is such a good answer to Arceus. Being unaware of what God can do translates into stonewalling it lmao

[@UncleRuckus-NoRelation-]

We need a Nidoking Theorem(or some other similar mon), where a pokemon has good attacking stats, but chooses to use the lower one.

[@heavylobster4339]

Lando-Incarnate

[@IgnitedQuils]

Dragapult fits this and ironically it works very well for it.

[@pinkerycelebi]

tapu koko and valiant too

[@skeetermania3202]

@@IgnitedQuils Nowadays I hear it uses more physical sets, and it pretty much always does in VGC.

[@PhantomAkiraP5]

Pikachu

[@jefftherpglover]

Didnt expect to see Xatu on this list lol. Yeah abilities are just as important as stats in Pokemon. I like that because it makes the game interesting and some Pokemon that would be never used have their own niches.

[@brodygentner8528]

Now we wait for the next false swipe film “how tyrannical was tyranitar actually?”

[@MrMarnel]

Worth noting Nidoking got buffed in XY, from 92 ATK to 102 ATK and it didn't even matter. So it also fulfills the requirements for the video up to Gen 5 without caveats. Imagine if that 10 base went to speed or SpATK instead.

[@necrozma4029]

Soon we're gonna have a "Necrozma Theorem" where "alternate forms aren't everything"

[@bdt2002gaming]

I mean, to be fair, Necrozma Dusk Mane’s probably a Top 10 Uber all-time. Probably not as historically consistent as Mewtwo, Kyogre, Groudon, and Arceus, to say nothing of Mega Rayquaza and Zacian, but it’s pretty solid.

[@Ravenstorm163]

Nidoking has 92 attack before game freak buffed it so it counts

[@ericlizama8552]

I would love to see a video on the Quagsire Theorem for Pokémon with high stats (but are not competitively viable).

[@mrdestructoo]

Form what your saying, klefki has more than switch ins then wonder guard spiritoumb

[@ZayZenBlaze]

Quagsire theorem is probably my favorite one that applies to both competitive and normal play. You can find some excellent Pokémon that may not have the best stats compared to others, but have the toolset and other abilities that allow you to get the most out of them. It’s like Karen said: “Strong Pokémon, Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best.”

[@T_667]

Yh well the pokemon I love best are Zacian-Crowned and Shadow Rider Calyrex, checkmate Karen

[@pinkerycelebi]

well if i like delibird how do i win?

[@iantaakalla8180]

All Ice-type fans be like:

[@venomgaming7014]

This theory is now probably the espathra theorem. I call it that because espathra has a BST of 481, but is in the UBER tier with rayquaza, Zacian, ARCEUS and more.

[@coltsfan354]

Nidoking has always been my favorite mon of all time, and its honestly kind of hilarious how it feels like it keeps getting stronger with every generation.

[@ivanzegarra9765]

Quagsire: QUAGGG Captions: *laughs*

[@untrue_reality]

Should have been the "clefable theorem", clefable is more versatile, and unaware clef is pretty underrated tbh.

[@bdt2002gaming]

Nothing better than sitting on Calm Mind Mega Latias

[@Alex-mq6qi]

"The Tyranitar Theorem: Why typing isn't everything" Or, "The Electivire/Mew Theorem: Why coverage isn't everything". Or on that same line a video on 4-moveslot syndrome

[@glacierwolf2155]

Could you make a video about the Gardevoir Theorem? The theorem that states that a big and varied movepool does not exactly equate to a strong Pokémon.

[@M4x_P0w3r]

I mean, Gardevoir isn't exactly top tier or anything, but it's not weak either. Mega Gardevoir was excellent in Gen 6, and Gardevoir itself has always been hanging between UU and RU ever since it got its fairy type, even being a part of OU on its debut generation where it didnt have it.

[@IgnitedQuils]

As what Max said, Gardevoir isn’t exactly weak. It’s just physically frail and its speed is average. But still has utility due to great special stats, offensive typing and wide utility and offensive movepool.

[@Rarest26]

I feel like Electivire would be a better poster boy for the theorem.

[@skeetermania3202]

@@M4x_P0w3r I assume it’s relative to OU.

[@M4x_P0w3r]

@@skeetermania3202 I mean, yeah. For me, Ubers and OU are for the really good pokemon, UU and RU are for the moderately good pokemon and NU and PU for the nigh unusable pokemon.

[@xxquagsirexx]

Can you do the Porygon2 Theorem? Basically how some pre-evolutions are better than their fully evolved form due to the eviolite

[@iantaakalla8180]

Another good name is the Dusclops Theorem as while Porygon-Z is useful, Dusknoir never is.

[@callmesilver2683]

@@iantaakalla8180 ice punch dusknoir Bottom text

[@mandalorianhunter1]

I actually have Quagsire on two of my teams in SV and I have a Clodsire on one team. They are all great walls or tanks whenever the need arises. I honestly forgot Clodsire's stat total is the same and is still a great wall. I wondered if their stats were buffed, what would happen.

[@superstardoughball9822]

TBH, just physical clodsire probably. Best stat distribution would just swap the defenses (from clods stat spread)

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@superstardoughball9822 yeah it's so interesting and fun

[@connorharris1601]

"What is a king to a god?" "What is a god to a vacantly staring salamander?"

[@braxian7315]

1:01 did anybody else hear that or am I going insane?

[@Brown95P]

Arceus: _uses Swords Dance_ "What is a King... to a God?" Quagsire: _switches in_ "What is a God? 😀"

[@JamienautMark2]

I love Quagsire’s little tail wag in Gen 5

[@TomFawkes]

Thank you for naming this theorem after my child.