Why Hoyeon Jung's & Vaush's Look Is Unique | Analyzing Celebrity Faces Ep. 69

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#Instagram #FacialSymmetry #SquidGame

[@thefatherinthecave943]

Turns out being attractive makes you attractive

[@spencer6106]

69 likes nice EDIT YOU GUYS FUCKED IT UP

[@KNylen]

ok but u could say that about any analyzation of anything if u broke it down to its fundamental idea (good visual hierarchy and composition makes a piece well-designed: turns out being well-designed makes a visual piece well-designed)

[@Towlapeiwa]

That’s a hotology!

[@KNylen]

@@Towlapeiwa lmfao nice

[@thefatherinthecave943]

@@KNylen ok. I can elaborate. I like the leery girl because I like intimidating women that I can’t figure out and she has lips that look nice

[@ghastlyghandi4301]

Vaush is just salty that this guy didn’t make a video about him yet

[@animposter4971]

Vaush is unironically hot

[@bobnotbobff]

​@animposter4971he looks like the chad of Reddit lol if his that's your type I guess his conventionally attractive but most KZbinrs are or they are photogenic at the least

[@bananasplit4391]

holy shit vaush, one does not simply whip out the zoolander gaze without a warning. I nearly fainted.

[@derpmanTV]

He did it for so long on stream I was genuinely scared

[@GynxShinx]

Which Zoolander gaze are we talking about?

[@jas4341]

I remember watching a Japanese show from the late 80’s where the male contestants had to guess which Japanese women European men found attractive. Unsurprisingly at that time Japanese men and European men preferred different looks.

[@xuxuang8574]

That sounds like a fun show. Having previously lived in China for years, I'm very aware of the differences between Chinese and British beauty standards...

[@malum9478]

@@xuxuang8574 i just want a fat ass and cute face. everything else is window dressing. why yes i am black how could you tell

[@henriquepacheco7473]

@@malum9478 I couldn't tell. Pretty much everyone in my country likes those two traits, be them black or white.

[@desmondtheneworder918]

@@malum9478 Amen

[@naruii5160]

@@malum9478 i aint black but this is what i want too

[@the9file]

It’s simple. Vaush has a big, round head.

[@the9file]

@She belongs to the Skreets he has been losing weight, &, so far, it has only made his head look bigger & rounder

[@jlp6864]

true 5head

[@eldercheese7858]

Beautifully rounded

[@matthewworthy4739]

Vaush, you should watch his video on the Golden Ratio. He talks about why it’s bullshit in it, maybe you could use the stuff he brings up against incels and Nazis, as they love to bring the Golden Ratio up.

[@shaheenshad5012]

The golden ratio is bullshit, almost all the prettiest women I know don't qualify for the Golden ratio.

[@LoneWulf278]

Good idea.

[@Cernunnnos]

I assume you mean golden ratio with regards to beauty standards rather than the golden ration itself being bullshit? Because it certainly isn't. It's literally everywhere.

[@shaheenshad5012]

@@Cernunnnos even if Greeks adopted a certain other geometric ratio. Their building still would be considered beautifully.

[@Cernunnnos]

@@shaheenshad5012 so yes, beauty standards. That doesn't mean the golden ratio itself doesn't exist or is bs. A lot of great artwork was composed with it in mind. I prefer the rule of thirds, it's simpler and I find it works a little better for me. But I mean, tons of great artwork uses the golden ratio. It is something we find innately appealing.

[@Noahthelasercop]

I'm sorry but glassesless front-facing Vaush is nightmare fuel. If I was walking against the dark of the night, and from dozens of feet away that face quietly emerged from the void and began staring at me, I'd fucking die.

[@thevashSP]

バカ

[@the9file]

the hairy, pale face in the thumbnail with the 1000-mile gaze definitely looks like it emerged from a void

[@AnimeFan9833]

Any face emerging from the void and staring at me would scare me.

[@brandonellis8111]

It's like front facing Beavis

[@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty]

@@thevashSP 明らかなトロールは明らかです

[@tormunnvii3317]

Another face which bears these same sorts of proportions is Zendaya’s. It has those same pseudo-masculine cheekbones and eye ratio he talks about, but also with other more soft lower features. Just a thought…

[@xuxuang8574]

I knew she reminded me of someone...

[@FrenkieWest32]

And based on the people I know, both are considered really damn attractive. Interesting.

[@angusmarch1066]

He did make a video about Zendaya too.

[@nielsjensen4185]

Yes, because her looks are exotic for the region. When people are used to seeing the same kind of facial structures those that fall outside the norm while still being recognisable are considered attractive. It's the same reason that faces of racially mixed people are often deemed to be more attractive than the norm or what's considered too alien by the people judging. An unfortunate example is that the facial features of a black man can be considered unattractive while the child he has with a white woman has facial features that are deemed attractive. The child's facial features are alien enough to be foreign (the black facial features toned down) while also recognisable (the white woman's facial features). This makes the facial features deemed to be exotic and attractive, especially if the woman is considered one as well. While this seems totally superfluous knowledge in modern society it gives some practical information on how phenotypes are seen by the cultures they appear in. It's a form of sociocultural biology.

[@bailey5924]

Good breakdown of the phenomena, do you have further reading you'd recommend on the subject? This seems like a thing that could underlie A LOT of racism and I'm curious of research into the subject

[@nielsjensen4185]

@@bailey5924 I've no source in English as it's based on knowledge from a Danish textbook. I know that the phenomenon is well-described as it's important for, especially, companies that make cosmetics for women as it informs them on what to push so other women can imitate those facial features. And what underlies racism is a lot more sinister. Racism, like all bigotry, is underlined by tribalism. Every society has in-groups that are preselected and out-groups that are generally used as the boogieman. I use a model that I call the superior/inferior dichotomy instead of the typical hierarchical model as I feel it describes external and internal power dynamics a lot better as it also takes in the relative nature of those. The model says that most people feel superior to some and inferior to others. The classic example is the male head of the household who generally acts like a king when at home. In that environment, he's superior to the rest of his family. At a new work, however, he acts all servile and humble as he's inferior to the rest of the people he works with. Seniority and advancements can change this. This is the reason I like this model a lot better than the typical hierarchical one as that is generally static and unable to explain a lot of things observed. Turning this around to racism, and bigotry in general, these beliefs are based on a tribalistic notion that the in-group is superior to the out-group. And since absolute beliefs and statements implicitly always contain their opposite since they would have no meaning otherwise ('true' means nothing if there's no concept of 'false.' 'Light' is a term without meaning if there's no 'darkness 'to define it), what people think, subconsciously is that they're "superior to the inferior X."

[@IceFireTerry]

I love how My crop of Vaush is the one everybody uses

[@IceFireTerry]

I think it's my crop.

[@TheRedArrowHD]

@@IceFireTerry Don't doubt yourself its 100% your crop

[@thevashSP]

Who cares

[@dffgffffffdddddddddd]

@@thevashSP me

[@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty]

@@thevashSP obvious troll is obvious

[@xuxuang8574]

My face is symmetrical. Unfortunately the line of symmetry is horizontal.

[@CPSPD]

Forehead mouth 😳

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

Still better than having a squiggly line drawn by a drunk toddler

[@AlmightyThagomizer]

I feel your pain, I’m radially symmetrical

[@dimitrif.m.4091]

I love Qoves. Vaush and a lot of others are missing the point. I'm a makeup artist and I really enjoy watching Qoves because it's really interesting finding connections to my work. The channel is just looking at the psychology and biology behind beauty. That's all it is. There's no "argument being made". He's just explaining. I really recommend Qoves, it's very interesting stuff

[@blinkx1070]

I don't know if you're a watcher of Vaush but when you're from a political background and someone starts talking about facial features and starts talking about jaw and skull shapes you are immediately are on edge. Because whenever we hear these things it's in the context of White Supremacist Nazi's trying to justify their racism. I think Vaush agrees in the end that this video doesn't do that.

[@xaviercockerton6989]

@@blinkx1070 So then best to listen before you come to conclusions. Think critically.

[@jlp6864]

same but vaush gets it in the end

[@blackmage1276]

@@xaviercockerton6989 yes you're right, he does this sometimes where he's skeptical of a video and is very "on edge" without charity and sticking with it for a few seconds

[@gmansplit]

@@blinkx1070 Nazis*

[@kstar1489]

I think it’s also interesting to note that the Korean beauty standard is more “feminine” in facial features for women AND men (to different degrees). Men will shave down their jaws to get the softer “puppy” look. (This does not mean Korea doesn’t have their own standards of masculinity and femininity nor that they don’t have a misogynistic society). It’s also true that Asian faces tend to be more “neotenous” - carrying over more childhood facial features. This may have influenced why they value “cuteness” more than in western, white dominate cultures where adulthood comes with more “sharp” features (at least more so for white europeans). But of course it’s not necessarily one to one and it’s hard to know exactly why different beauty standards arise. There are certainly cultural influences not just biological ones, and can be hard to tell what derived from what. But I think the differences are interesting. I think it has less to do with inherently “masculine” and “feminine” features because white European women tend to have more sharp features than Korean women in general, but those sharp, broad features are more exaggerated in men. I’m not sure why western female models are favored to have more sharp “masculine” features but perhaps to to be more striking? Idk. Perhaps modeling exaggerated features of what is already considered beautiful are favored, because male models also often have exaggerated sharp features more so than the average man. This I think is true in Korea, too, but with different beauty standards.

[@moksha8473]

Interesting stuff. Do you know why a lot of East Asian women (Korean, Chinese etc.) opt for epicanthic fold surgery? I've heard it's to do with the influence of Western beauty standards, but I wonder if their isn't an older precedent for consideirng rounder eyes to be more beautiful/alluring?

[@matthewworthy4739]

@@moksha8473 Not OP, but from my understanding, Japanese surgeons created double eyelid surgery because they believed it would make them look more civilized like Europeans. It became popular in Korea because of the American soldiers occupying the country. While other countries have different beauty standards, they used to be FAR more distinct prior to Western Influence. Think things like Foot-binding or Teeth blackening. It’s also not a coincidence that you don’t really see double eyelids in East Asian art prior to European influence.

[@VenusAD]

@@moksha8473 I can't deny that there is some kind of Eurocentric influence, because what with the history of the world, how can their not be? But one thing I think a lot of people miss is that a lot of those ideals are also driven by what celebrities (actors and idols/singers) are doing. Wide eyes are considered to be indicative of innocence and a good heart, so it was really common for leading actresses AND actors to get the surgery to widen their eyes and fit that role. When you're seeing that all the celebrities you like have this look, of course you're going to want to have the same. It's interesting to note though that things have changed quite significantly since the early aughts of the Hallyu wave. More male actors refused the surgery, including the very famous Yoo Ah In, who also encouraged his friend - a now famous actress by the name of Kim Go Eun - not to get it early in her career. Not to mention every member of BTS has refused the surgery. You just see far more Korean celebs who haven't had it these days, which is really cool. It's not a total change, but especially for male celebs it's a lot less common. I can't account for the other countries though. I feel like I still see it a lot, although it's getting more rare for male actors. Women still seem to be getting it pretty often in China, Japan, Thailand, etc.

[@KingOpenReview]

To be honest Ho Yeon is hot, but it's the character, Sae Byeok who I REALLY think is hot.

[@socks2728]

based

[@Zeberai]

cringe

[@giantclam6040]

morally neutral

[@demareatunes]

gay

[@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty]

straight

[@justinlacek1481]

When he says Asian beauty standards... Is he including all of Asia? A lot of this seems to be focused predominantly on *east* asians.

[@matthewworthy4739]

I’ve watched his videos, he means East Asia, he has videos about South Asian beauty standards and how they differ, along with Southeast Asian and Middle Eastern beauty standards.

[@aronchai]

There's zero reason to group East Asians and South Asians together in almost any context imo, let alone people from the Middle East

[@neutral_10]

@@matthewworthy4739 Can you link those videos so I can check them out

[@angusmarch1066]

@@neutral_10 just go to his channel bro. Its called Qoves Studio

[@MisterRorschach90]

It really seems like you only listened to every other word of this video and only reached the right conclusions when your chat forced you to actually listen. lol

[@Vongspawn]

i love the adventure of watching vaush grapple with his own bias, starting out misunderstanding the arguments and assuming the most uncharitable version of them and then slowly understand the actual arguments.

[@SoftBoiledArt]

He's a fucking propagandist so naturally it haves a hard time understanting arguments without extracting mainstream american politics from them...this was painful to watch.

[@Kman20025]

He can be a smart guy but his tendency to act like he has an educated opinion about absolutely anything and everything when he clearly doesn't gets real old sometimes. Sometimes just admitting that you're ignorant on a subject is the way to go

[@godsteeth1574]

@@Kman20025 but he never said he was educated on this subject, in fact he said he didn't know anything about it in the beginning. All he said was he's heard race realists use arguments like this

[@Vongspawn]

Actually accepting you were wrong is the best anybody can do. I didn’t mean to put him down. It reminds me the german politics arc.

[@SoftBoiledArt]

@@godsteeth1574 Nazs also accept relativity and evolution "they also say this" is NOT a very good metric... he's just going for gotchas too hard

[@bluepearl_22]

That Gamora joke was fucked up but still funny as hell ngl

[@Putri-iu4bc]

Personally I dont like these videos much just cause such a focus on beauty standard is a huge gateway to looksmax shit, like I'm a girl and I ended up there and i only left cause 1, the misogyny, and 2, everyone makes everyone feel like shit, even though most are just average, and also cause YES chewing gum too much can be bad, I got tmj from it lol

[@radiofloyd2359]

I think quove as it's own thing is fascinating, but I can definitely see how toxic it might be if the takeaway isn't "there's actually very few features that will be considered universally beautiful, everything else is in someway cultural" and rather "this is how you look beautiful".

[@martinsriber7760]

People really need to get it's descriptive and understanding how thing works is useful.

[@VestigeFinder]

how is looksmax toxic? Attractive people are treated better in all aspects in society, and thats a fact. People trying to improve their lives and how they are perceived isn't toxic, but the high standards of attractiveness in society could be toxic.

[@Putri-iu4bc]

@@VestigeFinder I'm talking about the communtiy of looksmax, where a lot of people sad about their appearance end up. Its basically a wasteland of incels and others who collectively make each other feel bad. It's just a fact that better looking people get treated better, and trying to be your best self is always great, but I dont think it should be done at the expense of our mental health which is usually what ends up happening within those communities.

[@gerunkwon2598]

@@Putri-iu4bc wrong. People in the looksmax community are getting surgeries to improve their appearances. There’s a couple of users who got surgeries. There is even a thread where they discuss surgeons. People go there to find out how they can improve their looks. There is no other place or community that discuss these things other than the looksmax community. All the things you claim as toxicity is really just harmless banter. Also, looksmax communities were some of the earliest places on the internet where laymen discussed the importance of bone structure. The fact that you want to improve your looks means you know you’re ugly. So don’t feel bad when they say it on the forums.

[@s-e-e-k-i-n-g]

hoyeon jung is conventionally attractive. it's more about symmetry in the face, and conventionally attractive faces can draw a line from the edge of their nostils to meet the edge of the inner corner of the eyes; the end corners of the mouth will make a line up to the center of the eye. this is a noticeable pattern and one that's mentioned in artist books on drawing faces

[@duman173]

this type of obssesion with beauty standars like this is what drives to plastic surgery sector to make millions of people being made feel insecure about things like the symmetry of their faces, this is why i despise this type of people

[@essaly7969]

Conversely, this type of video can be a gateway for insecure people to embrace their features and learn why changing them might alter the balance of their face. Also, mentioning different standards is a good way to take some distance from the idea of beauty.

[@duman173]

@@essaly7969 or reinforce it, people shouldnt be learning that from a "esthetic proffesional" that has every incentive in you trusting his analysis of what is and isnt beauty, thisbis why its fucked up, people shouldnt be looking for this type of validation and it only means people in their lives were already thought to see beauty in very specific at often times historically racist ways, and its not with promoting things like this that will make it chanhe

[@angusmarch1066]

The problem with beauty standards is not the standards themselves, its that people attach their entire sense of self worth to them. A channel like this can help you show exactly where beauty standards come from: culture and psychological bias. It greatly helps a person to set themselves aside from their looks and also to make the most of the looks they have.

[@hilariousbenjamin5614]

The guy is a plastic surgeon, I think people are freaking out way too much over this

[@PlatinumAltaria]

I'm sure there's no conflict of interest there... guy's a hack using ideas that were outdated a decade ago.

[@duman173]

Its still weird doing all this racial and ethnic type of essentialism in talking about beauty standards or other type of chracteristics thru face symmetry which is moronic

[@hilariousbenjamin5614]

@@PlatinumAltaria All I'm saying is he's not a phrenology-loving eugenist or something like I've seen some people imply I've seen a couple of his videos out of curiosity way before all the discourse started and he seems like a pretty ethical plastic surgeon at that

[@hilariousbenjamin5614]

@@duman173 that's for sure

[@otto_jk]

@@duman173 well the guy isn't... He's saying beauty standards in Korea are like this and beauty standards in west (meaning likely US) are like this. Racial essentialisation would be if he said that these beauty standards come from genetics or some other ethnic feature, but in no point in the video does he say so.

[@JonathanAdami]

"Beauty is the eye of the beholder" in the trained eye yes... society teaches you what accepted beauty is, then you chose to either agree or steer away from it. In turn shaping what beauty will be like in the future!

[@thevashSP]

This is a dumb take

[@veemie8148]

@@thevashSP how does your opinion differ?

[@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty]

@@thevashSP obvious troll is obvious

[@hexogramd8430]

@@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty no because while there is clearly beauty that is subjective there is objective things that aren’t beautiful. Not in a million years will majority find clef lip beautiful.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

@Fancy Gem If everyone had a cleft lip then obviously they would find it weird that yours was in one piece. People prefer faces that most closely match those they have previously seen, not some platonic standard.

[@TommyLikeTom]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Tesla fell in love with a pigeon.

[@ronaldmexico1297]

elon musk fell in love with his tesla

[@queebloxd]

Vaush can be as attractive or unattractive as he wants as he is simply a shapeshifter, this is just his current form but years ago he fooled the world as Obi-Wan as he was gathering power.

[@nero3901]

Dear lord, the look he gave the camera with glasses on killed me lol

[@vvenuxs]

wow they look the exact same!

[@thevashSP]

Blind

[@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty]

@@thevashSP obvious troll is obvious

[@hexogramd8430]

@@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty vaush looks the same as a woman?

[@XCoolxXBeans]

You two are basically twins wow 🤩

[@Bnio]

Yeah, the video is not skewing toward a racial preference, but it does have an uncomfortable obsession with "models" being the paragon of beauty, even though often the most prominent models rise to such heights because they stand out from the average standard while sill having it? I guess?

[@beccyp4130]

Yeah exactly. Saying “this is beautiful bc models have it” is weird to me because like they’re meant to be distinctive looking and don’t represent the beauty of non-models.

[@adorabell4253]

It’s especially weird because models aren’t considered the most beautiful. They are generally strange looking and meant to have somewhat bland faces outside makeup. They are meant to be more or less blank canvases for the fashion designer and stylist to “draw” the runway look into. This is in contrast to early models who were meant to represent real women and are older, more in line with contemporary beauty standards, and interact much more with the audience.

[@SoftBoiledArt]

He's talking industry standards and conventionally sucessful archetypes, you're a bit confused. If I say last COD sold 45m I'm not literally saying COD best Game, I'm saying It sold 45m

[@beccyp4130]

@@SoftBoiledArt the guy in the video was defining beauty around models, their dimensions and whatnot

[@hexogramd8430]

@@beccyp4130 wrong

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

Jeremy Renner who plays Hawkeye is in fact part-Latin American. His grandmother is from Panama

[@martinsriber7760]

I wonder how would you call it if it was reversed. What if he was Panamanian and his grandmother was from USA?

[@darkphoenix2]

No one has a perfectly symmetrical face, that would look weird. Look it up. Also Margot Robbie is perfect, the second picture is just different makeup and lighting

[@GhGh-ci8ld]

agree, margot robbie is perfect

[@themythicfire7560]

She'll age gracefully

[@notapplicable2515]

Face isn't important for clothes models lol. Why is my face so intimidating? I'm incidentally 7 feet and 250 pounds, train 4 times a week.

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

7 feet? I only got the two

[@otto_jk]

@@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan budumts

[@tossapixeltoyournoelle]

I love the thumbnail and the title

[@greatcesari]

2:09 Learned something new today: Clicking on a link while holding CTRL opens that link in a new tab. Damn I feel stupid.

[@ScarceCastle2]

You can also middle click it, usually opens in an new tab too 👍

[@angusmarch1066]

Lmao not you not knowing how to use a computer.

[@SomethingImpromptu]

The most convincing work I’ve seen on this subject has argued that what people tend to find most attractive isn’t as simple as perfect symmetry or other qualities which comparably fall on one extreme of a polarity. In the case of symmetry, increasing symmetry does seem correlated with perceived beauty up to a point, but it seems as though absolutely perfect symmetry is actually perceived as somewhat boring or even uncanny. Absolute symmetry is a perfect, unbroken pattern, but that also makes it predictable & potentially even somewhat synthetic & inorganic seeming (even the faces we consider highly symmetrical aren’t perfectly symmetrical, & if they were we’d probably get somewhat weird artificial/android vibes, because that’s not how humans or other organic lifeforms generally look). Symmetry does have an undeniable appeal (there’s a reason so much architecture, art, etc., which is intended to be aesthetically pleasing, is designed around symmetries). But, at least to a lot of us, a completely unbroken symmetry is honestly somewhat boring. When there is absolutely nothing violating the perfection of the pattern, the symmetry may still be striking & appealing, but it arguably isn’t going to hold our attention in the way it would if there were intriguing symmetry-breaks in the right places. I mean think about a really attractive, engaging male character in a film… It’s not exactly uncommon for them to have a scar across one eye, or some other asymmetrical feature, & a lot of people think that’s hot (however, if they had identical diagonal scars of the exact same length, both slanting inward, across both eyes, while it would indisputably be more symmetrical, I’m pretty sure it would near universally be considered really odd looking & far less attractive than the singular, symmetry-breaking scar). Think about actresses & models like Natalie Portman, Marilyn Monroe, or Eva Mendes. They all have moles on their face which are offset to one side. They’re certainly a break with their otherwise pretty symmetrical faces, but that doesn’t mean they take away from their attractiveness. To many people they make them more attractive (people literally call them “beauty marks”). I think this is the reason that you aren’t just automatically more attractive if you take a picture where you mirror half of your face across the other side; maybe if you find JUST the right angle you can produce a picture that way which looks attractive, but in general there’s always going to be something unnatural & unsettling about those pictures- especially if it mirror’s some symmetry-breaking feature like those scars or moles, or freckles, or an eyepatch, or anything else like that. I think the obsession with symmetry is just based on people’s desire to understand beauty/attraction/aesthetics driving them towards reductionism- latching on to one singular factor which obviously plays a role. But as a nondualist & a believer in dialectics, who understands human psychology, for instance, in terms of polarities formed by our many diametrically opposed, contradictory drives (a drive to fit in & a drive to stand out, a drive to productivity & a drive to relaxation, a drive to hedonism & a drive to find higher meaning, a drive towards selfishness & a drive towards selflessness, & so on), I find it unsurprising that our sense of beauty/attraction, is in one dimension the product of contradictory attraction towards both the elegance of symmetry & the excitingness of symmetry-breaking. I’m sure there are many other dimensions in which this is true (in art I think we have a sense of beauty associated with both ordered structure & disordered chaos, both the high contrast of black & white & the saturation of color, & so on, & it’s the outcomes of those clashes which lead us to find a piece of art aesthetically appealing or not), but I don’t know enough about this subject to know a lot of others. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some objective basis for our sense of beauty, whether that’s in the brain/mind or built in to the Platonic informational coding of the universe, but I couldn’t prove that. It just seems like if the experience of beauty is a function of our neurologically-mediated cognitive capacities then it would have some grounding (as would ethics & everything else that comes out of our brains) in the coding that produces our brains (our DNA, as well as perhaps epigenetic factors), if not whatever wellspring of information all of that arises from (information theory & the holographic model of the cosmos, both of which are pretty widely believed in physics/cosmology at this point, start to look like they’re pointing towards a cosmology/metaphysics awfully similar to Platonic idealism or Plotinus’ basic neo-Platonic cosmology IMO; in any of those frameworks there is an informational realm which underpins 4D spacetime- what the great David Bohm called the implicate order, as opposed to the explicate order of space & time & matter & energy we experience day to day- so I’d just encourage people to keep an open mind about the possibilities of where form & information comes from & what science is indicating as possible realities).

[@FruitBasketyay]

Markiplier being a snack is the best part of this video

[@mconcepcion752]

Chat forgot to mention the Blue Beetle. He's hispanic, and he's been around a long time. In the Marvel TV shows also have Roberto Reyes whose a spanish Ghost Rider

[@lanfrancoadreani9212]

Vaush's narcisism amazes me

[@somerandommen]

Cool.

[@mani225456]

Are you people immune to satire?

[@mintleaf4651]

It's astounding

[@somedudeok1451]

This is so creepy. Obsessing over facial features is so creepy. It reeks of eugenics.

[@angusmarch1066]

Give a definition of what Eugenics is.

[@somedudeok1451]

@@angusmarch1066 Look it up yourself. Or make your point.

[@katelynelms3062]

My favorite thing about this analysis is the complete disregard of makeup. "Her high buckle fat is less here because of [all these film tricks, and also possibly dehydration]"... Bro, it's called contour. That's like saying Angelina Jolie just got suuuuper dehydrated and had interesting lighting and angles throughout her role in Maleficent. No. It's makeup.

[@lolwhatidk]

beauty is in the eye of the beer holder

[@raccoonking7566]

Haven't watched Squid Game, but pictures of that character give me serious "pin me down mommy" and "death by snu snu" vibes when talking about her attractiveness.

[@PersonCalledErin]

Down horrendous But yes she's attractive

[@malum9478]

unfortunately for those people she's like 4"9 and a hundred pounds, she aint snu snuin much.

[@raccoonking7566]

@@malum9478 well not with that attitude

[@ai-eo4dm]

@@malum9478 she's 5'9, that's taller than a decent amount of americans lol

[@inexperiencedknife]

Vaush was trying so hard to find any way to discredit the video he was watching. Especially in the beginning where he barely watched 2 minutes of it.

[@WhichDoctor1]

It's probably just because it seemed like a wannabe evolutionary psychologist trying to validate cultural enforced beauty standards with pseudoscience. I mean I'm 7 minutes in and it looks like its hinting in that direction to me. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but it's not like evopsyc isn't crammed full of quacks, misogynists and neonazis. Its always good practice to approach the field with a strong element of scepticism Edit: Having watched to the end its totally fine. But the incel/far right types do use a lot of the same technical language to try and give their pregidice a sense of credibility, so having the inicial reaction isn't suprising.

[@SoftBoiledArt]

@@WhichDoctor1 infinite facepalm

[@TheRealZeke2003]

@@WhichDoctor1 It only seems that way because online leftists only engage with these topics with neo-nazis rather than actual professional in the field.

[@WhichDoctor1]

​@@TheRealZeke2003 Really not. I've seen way too many cases of published studies by evopsych professors that are downright awful in their methodology and blatantly biased by misogyny or racism. It seems all you have to do to get published in a lot of evopsych journals is do a tiny survey, find some preference in the sample and then come up with a Just-so story explaining why that's caused by evolutionary pressure in some imagined version of early human society and you're done. No need to provide evidence that the evolutionary pressures you propose actually existed (because that would be virtually impossible anyway), exclude modern social influences, bias in your sample, or demonstrate a lack of phacking. Just a nice little story that makes it seem like the biases we hold now are biologically preprogrammed so we can feel good about how things are and dont have to listen to people saying we should change. Then get your press release about the study picked up in the tabloid papers cause people like reading about how the things they already think are actually right, get a nice little publicity boost for your university, and move onto the next one. Now I'm not saying there's no value in looking at human behaviour through this lens, it's a totally valid area of study and evolution has undoubtedly had a massive influence on our brains. Just that it's way to easy to get garbage published under the veneer of "science" because of the general lack of rigger in the field at the moment. Sociology is also pretty rife with shoddy work too mind you, so I would say the same if I saw a vid filled with sociology buzzwords as well, either is a good reason to question what your hearing, especially if you instinctively agree with it.

[@essaly7969]

Then he should hold his initial reaction and wait for the video to be over to gather his thoughts.

[@poloman3754]

Vaush looks like a viking without glasses

[@PersonCalledErin]

I didn't have suspicions about race realism with this vid or whatever, I just disagree because it's highly prescriptive about something that a lot of people will still disagree on, obviously. Trying to explain why people find someone attractive by anthropological means is really counter-intuitve and seems to pander way more to pseudointellectualism or pseudoscience instead of actual peoples experiences. Sure there may be some evolutionary factors that would be seen as attractive but its largely cultural normativity. A lot of people specifically find non-normative looks more attractive because of how they grew up or see beauty, they prefer more non-conventional looks.

[@SoftBoiledArt]

It's definitely more biological than cultural by a mile, everything in the video is almost common sense. Also, who's saying that we understand atraction entirely or that there's ONE kind of atractive person. Idk what you mean with "normative beauty" if incidentally you happen to mean "models" that's not the kind of type that works well on, for example, porn.

[@TheRealZeke2003]

All I'll say is that exceptions don't disprove the rule. Morally speaking beauty is in the eye of the beholder but statistically speaking there are physical characteristics that are nigh-universally seen as attractive within cultures.

[@TheRealZeke2003]

@@SoftBoiledArt Yeah even in the video they talk about how different cultures have different beauty standards. That was basically a straw-man.

[@peter9162]

The double eyelid procedure was actually popularised by American plastic surgeons in Korea following the Korean War. Some Koreans are born with double eye lids naturally. But many are born with a mono lid. But are fine. But in Korea, many actresses, Kpop idols etc get the double lid surgery. I don't know why.

[@cassif19]

"You can find people who deviate from that and they're still pretty attractive" - well that's exactly what this channel is saying and explaining. In other videos, they aknowledge the fact that symmetry does not have to be perfect for an attractive face and they talk for instance about the highly asimetric face of Timothée Chalamet. This channel most often explains how something that is considered an ugly trait often doesn't make you ugly in combination with all the other features on your face. It's just that in this video they jumped on this Squid Game trend and used a face they didn't really have too many meaningful things to say about.

[@angusmarch1066]

I think he said some meaningful things.

[@klaustrophobic3643]

I really like to look at faces that are very asymetric, deformed, scarred, aged etc so i don't get the beauty-thing. I am bored easily by conventional beauty, its not interesting. My partner has a deformed nose and scarred and one eye slightly bigger then the other and he always looks like he has not slept for centuries. My body is deformed and full of scars though my face is considered kinda conventional beautiful (somehow especially if i mention my age?!) I am just easily bored by things that are considered accepted by most people. Maybe it also has to do with my autism? Its fun to think about. Maybe that's why i give my characters ingame as many scars and deformaties as possible XD

[@angusmarch1066]

Okay, I mean good for you and I agree, but I dont believe that anyone is making the opposite claim.

[@1000dumplings]

Yeah good video actually, genuinely interesting

[@dk2286]

I would hate to be this guy who obsesses over bone structure and other shit you can't control. Just the model industry in general seems unhealthy and like a miserable existence.

[@pizzaburger9928]

fax

[@MrRazmut]

I don't know if he's obsessing over it as much as literally just explaining what the people in the industry look for when they select models. Why are you all getting so offended about this? I don't get it. You can be against the shitty beauty standards without acting like this model guy is weird for talking about model stuff, for fucks sake.

[@otto_jk]

Why are you talking about the video like analyzing bone structure is his obsessive hobby, when that is literally his job because that's the subject matter of the video. It's like saying customs officers are obsessed with analyzing passports or that hairdressers are obsessed with hair, or that a plumber is obsessed pipes.

[@msgirly6827]

Very much agreed.

[@CPSPD]

@@MrRazmut sounds like ur offended

[@Pathsfound]

The modeling industry to me is very similar to the bodybuilding industry in that a lot of people become healthy doing it accidentally and the best of the best at it are really doing themselves a lot of harm sometimes

[@aliciaward1185]

No glasses Vaush lookin cute too

[@lanfrancoadreani9212]

Increase your standards bro

[@lanfrancoadreani9212]

@She belongs to the Skreets he looks like a fat kid that Watched too much Vikings

[@dakevinmg]

@She belongs to the Skreets Vaush was pretty good looking at age 20

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

Bomk

[@Matthew.E.Kelly.]

If Margot Robbie ends up in the MCU I hope she's cast as Viper/Madame Hydra. Seeing the side-by-side of her old headshot with a new frontal shot, with the post-surgical angles of her jawline & cheeks, made me realize how much she looks like Viper (especially the way Keith Pollard drew her in the Nick Fury: Agent of SHIELD series). Also Hawkeye is definitely not Hispanic. In the MCU or the comics. There are however a lot of Hispanic characters in Marvel comics: Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider, the X-Men characters Forge, Richter, Cecilia Reyes, & X-23 (technically a clone of Wolverine with Hispanic & Asian gene splicing), the New Mutants Roberto DaCosta or Sunspot & Amara Aquilla/Lava are Brazilian, White Tiger, there's the Hispanic Spider-Girl who goes by Araña, Firebird (West Coast Avengers), Maya Lopez/Echo (the current Phoenix)... That's just off the top of my head.

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

Jeremy Renner is part Hispanic though. His grandmother is from Panama.

[@Matthew.E.Kelly.]

@@Josep_Hernandez_LujanThat's cool, I didn't know that. I feel like he was a *very* unexpectedly good choice to cast as Hawkeye & they just took way too long to do something good with the character for the MCU. The comics have had great solo Hawkeye stories & team-ups for decades.

[@soccerruben1]

Isn’t Julia Dreyfus known as Madame Hydra in the MCU?

[@soccerruben1]

@Revolver Ocelot Huh, interesting fact. But yeah, as much people love to shit on Marvel or the Avengers, movie-wise, I definitely love Jeremy Renner’s character. But yeah, TIL.

[@Matthew.E.Kelly.]

@@soccerruben1I certainly hope not, since the character she portrays (Contessa Valentina de Fontaine or "Val") only assumed the mantle of "Lady Hydra" recently in the comics after killing the daughter of Red Skull, if I remember right. Some brainwashing shit where she was kidnapped & turned into a double agent to infiltrate SHIELD from the inside? That's *not* the version of Viper/Madame Hydra they should use for the MCU, it's a really bad choice that leaves out a lot of subtle plotting & opportunity for... Oh 😑 that's probably what they're gonna do, because it's simple, quick, lacks substance, & makes for a predictable storyline that can be resolved in 90 minutes. Nevermind.

[@tormunnvii3317]

Great video. Perhaps the western female model beauty standard leans more Masc because it’s primarily women who consume products promoted with such images? The popularity of eastern women with more soft features is maybe because it’s mainly men (including western men) who consume products with those images (think anime, video games, etc). I’m not saying this fully explains the differing beauty standards, but it may have explanatory value.

[@kstar1489]

That may be true in the west but in places like Korea these Korean female models are modeling products to women just as often as female models in America model to women. I think it has more to do with standards of beauty. Models have more exaggerated features at least facially of what is already considered attractive. That’s shaper features in white dominant western societies and softer “cute” features in Korean society than the average person. The average white person does not have as many sharp features as many models and the average Korean does not have have as much the ideal soft, cute features as the Korean models over there. In both cases it’s exaggeration but in different ways.

[@SoftBoiledArt]

It's literally because of Gustav Klimt who popularized the femme fatale trope, along some literature. When in doubt ALWAYS is painting or books.

[@bharbarawyrstwaemasyn8741]

Anime and video games barely have any bearing on korean beauty standards since they're mostly perpetuated by kpop idols and celebrities.

[@bharbarawyrstwaemasyn8741]

I'd also say anime and video games don't have that much of a bearing on Japanese beauty standards either. They lean towards more "natural" looks. They have some influence from kpop (which is a little worrying since it casts extremely unrealistic standards).

[@l.3ok]

~shows a scene of Hoyeon Jung almost killing a guy. The video: _"Ah yes, such a beautiful jawline"_

[@angusmarch1066]

He's saying that the jawline works to make her performance of almost killing a person more convincing.

[@DingoTheDemon]

When I heard that joke about Gamora at first I was like, "oh, is the actress Latin American?" It didn't even occur to me that it was an alien joke lol

[@walterl322]

I mean, if he doesn't think that beauty standards are somehow genetically inherent to a group (that's not true and that would definitely make him racist), he basically concedes to us that beauty standards are subjective and they can and do change by acknowledging the fact that beauty standards vary based on your culture...

[@Pyladin]

Symmetry is in fact a thing. Every documentary that I have ever seen on such issues, says this. Also, wanting babies, makes some bodies be super nice, mostly just young, when it comes to what men chooses.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

It's overblown, symmetry only has a very small effect which is skewed statistically by significant facial deformities. Mirror half of your own face and see whether it makes you more or less attractive.

[@adorabell4253]

@@PlatinumAltaria oh my god, that QI episode. Perfect synergy is uncanny valley shit.

[@Dmwntkp99]

Edgar Allan Poe “There is no exquisite beauty… without some strangeness in the proportion.”

[@angusmarch1066]

"Because Edgar Allen Poe said it, it must be true."

[@PhoeniX199777]

Why is fake tan and going to tanning salons such a big thing in the west if pale skin is meant to be seen as the "beauty standard"? Or is it more non-western countries that see pale skin as more beautiful? I know nothing about this shit lmao

[@adorabell4253]

It’s due to recent history. Due to women starting to work in factories in the mid 1800s and ever increasing into the 1900s a pale face stopped being a sign of leisure as before (when women generally worked outside and got tanned). Having the free time to sunbathe (aka tan) became a sign of leisure and therefore attractiveness. This did not happen in Asia so they kept the older standard of pale=rich=beautiful. Used to be the same in Europe as well.

[@PhoeniX199777]

@@adorabell4253 Damn, thanks for that really interesting answer, i swear the more you look into anything the crazier the things you find get. There also seems to be a trend in history where low class items etc would eventually be seen as high class, like lobsters for example beign a low class food and eventually turning high class if i remember correctly and vice versa.

[@dissofosho333]

the fuck is wrong of me, i can't stop laughing at that face he made 🤣

[@brandbusters183]

Bro this is Normie Eugenics.

[@angusmarch1066]

I challenge you right now to tell us all what Eugenics is in your own words.

[@SS-xr7jf]

You’d think after 11 seasons of a show, make up trends might not be exactly the same. Also, “beauty” also has to do with the medium being viewed. Like, there was a shift in beauty trends for actresses when we shifted from black and white to color.

[@Ellipsis115]

3:28 How do you even come up with numbers that make this little sense?!? Neither the unit nor the tens collumn adds up to what it should do.

[@otto_jk]

The correct answer is that her face is 116% symmetrical

[@MrRazmut]

You guys need to go back to math class

[@DaArcaneNinja]

Hey i mean the first couple minutes the guy caught me red handed to, so it was fun and interesting to hear why in a psychological point of view

[@user-gi6oc5or5z]

Bruh chat trying to insinuate that this is in anyway similar to phrenology is insanely stupid.

[@Lambda_Ovine]

Hey, Speedy Gonzalez is a speedster. He could absolutely be a super hero

[@lordj3793]

This video makes so much sense the actress is pretty and all but not that pretty. I as Asian was struggling to understand the craze.

[@cthuloso]

29:45 the timing is amazing.

[@Onus6688]

Idk this segment was kinda weirdchamp

[@sidarthur8706]

physiognomy is the word you wanted

[@Siberius-]

I love the title.

[@thebugscome]

So that's where all the memes came from

[@JeepnHeel]

Thanks for the arrows in the thumbnail. I was so confused at first, but now I see how simple it was.

[@bluedreamkush2392]

Don’t most models go through facial surgery to get that symmetrical look?

[@angusmarch1066]

No, they dont. Some people may get fillers, but you cant just drastically change your face shape without incurring huge potential danger to yourself. Also, given that Hoyeon has a face shape that deviates from average eastern beauty standards, it seems improbable that she would actively get surgery to look more western and then work primarily in the east, up until Squid Game made her famous over here. That would be a huge gamble. More likely she had that face shape already, which the people who originally scouted her found unique for the region and took a chance on her. Thats why it makes so little sense that no one is getting the point of this video which is that her face IS novel and deviates from beauty standards relative to he region.

[@derrickbelanger]

Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider from Agents of Shield is Hispanic.

[@EvanCanSee]

Didn't he say in the beginning it's easily explained?

[@DMTHOTH]

not every east asian beauty standards are 'corrupted' by western colonialism.. That assumption itself is quite colonialistic. Lighter skin colour for women was always prefered because of socio-economical reason through out the whole eurasian history. Not everything is about whites, duh!

[@wa-bu3ke]

No that’s just everywhere, working out in the sun means poor etc. No need to pin in on them specifically

[@CODDE117]

As a Hispanic superhero,

[@PlatinumAltaria]

(shows 50 different women who all look totally different) "This is what makes a woman attractive." Attractiveness is not about metrics, it's about a combination of complementary features, which is why people can look completely different and still be attractive to you.

[@duskpede5146]

isn't that literally what they were saying in the video?

[@PlatinumAltaria]

@@duskpede5146 No, they were saying the exact opposite.

[@duskpede5146]

@@PlatinumAltaria uhh i think you should watch it again if you think thats the tak away

[@TheRealZeke2003]

If you at least three braincells you'd realize the person in the video is using an ANALYTICAL definition of Beauty, not a MORAL definition.

[@r.h.f.6073]

@Atutre to you perhaps, but i would hesitate to characterize my own standards of beauty as universal. that would be fucking moronic.

[@samreciter]

You missed the point in there - an even face is about genetic health and a healthy childhood (fast growth phases). Doesn't say much about an unhealthy adult/late youth life - e.g. skinny models =)

[@devilsadvocate7389]

Beauty really is in the eye of a beholder.

[@mintleaf4651]

Truth

[@trumplostlol5281]

Yeah None of the characteristics he cited are important to me for example. She is hot because idk she is hot to me, she has a pretty mouth and i like dark hair. Over analyzing beauty seems so pointless

[@wehavebiscuits]

I don't like people just issuing this statement as is, tbh it's quite the virtue signal. Of course it's somewhat subjective, but there's also an objective element to it. Select 100 random people from all over the world and ask them to rate Chris Hemsworth from 1-10 and Jeremy Clarkson from 1-10, I'm sure Hemsworth will win most of the time.

[@benledet-reeves454]

Robbie reyes the ghost rider is in the shows

[@Undeadsweater]

Technically, American media has Asians in it and diversity generally, but they are often typecast into specific roles and only shown in a very stereotypical way. This gives us a narrow view of what certain races/ethnic groups are like. Asian women are often only cast as delicate, subservient sex objects. And even when they are not, the leading love interest in most American media is not often non-white. There are countless examples of characters of color coming in second place to a white woman. One example that comes to mind is Cho Chang in Harry Potter, who of course doesn't end up with the protagonist permanently, but is instead replaced by a white woman. We are taught that even if one does like other races, white women are still the height of desirability. We still don't have nearly enough racial diversity in our media, and cultural diversity is good too, but how are we going to get that right if we are still so far behind with racial representation?

[@jaredgreathouse3672]

Hoyeon Jung is so hot

[@SadeN_0]

Whichever one of you (tempest?) did the title and thumbnail for this one, that's a fantastic fucking clickb8 job, A+

[@francescarosalia3839]

The narrator of the video is a model, that's why he has this interest

[@X60Gamers]

Watch the nose video, pretty sure the guy is fine, also makes very fascinating videos lik tye nose one helping me understand rhe difference between noses amongst different ethnicities and why they elvoced that way. Cool stuff, not sus imo

[@ashkhanal3738]

Vaush watch more of these plz these r interesting

[@airborn3841]

Hell nah, they racist as fuck

[@KNylen]

u know you can watch them yourself right

[@hexogramd8430]

@@airborn3841 no they aren’t

[@aevinum]

"genetic health" gross "beauty standards are different there" Oh so it's subjective, thanks for the lesson I guess

[@angusmarch1066]

"Genetic health" as in "not diseased or malformation prone".

[@girv98]

I've been watching this channel for a few months now. My only problem with it is that they seem to be very quick to recommend plastic surgery

[@SoftBoiledArt]

The grift my man

[@angusmarch1066]

@@SoftBoiledArt its not a grift, because they dont offer plastic surgery. The fact of the matter is that if you are content to make the best of your current features, then there are plenty of things you can do with regard to fitness, self care and hygiene that can really up your game. But if you are dead set on a straight nose, a defined gonial jaw and high cheekbones then your only real way of getting those things is cosmetic surgery. A real grifter would be one of those influencers who sell you those chewing balls or mewing exercises and feed you guff that you CAN achieve a literal metamorphosis in bone structure without surgery. Qoves actually doesnt personally recommend surgery. Looking at all his videos together, he seems to think its a bad idea, because there is a lot that can go wrong with surgery and the kind of surgeries that you would need to achieve the kind of look that celebrities have would be life threatening without the money that could buy an elite professional. But also he does acknowledge that assuming the surgery was 100% successful, then that is the most effective method of achieving the conventional look that you wanted.

[@SoftBoiledArt]

@@angusmarch1066 That sounds honestly pretty honest, thanks for your time

[@netherstarbuild]

chat in this video made me depressed

[@vuhmie]

Why

[@Lambda_Ovine]

measuring people's eye distance and shit and then declare "beauty" is straight up phrenology type bullshit

[@gndize]

Nacho Libre the best hispanic super hero

[@freedomofmusic2112]

The title for this one is so funny 😂

[@SarahRoseCO10]

These face analysis videos have always seems so sussy to me

[@martinsriber7760]

Considering that many of them are bad, fair enough. However whole thing shouldn't be dismissed because of that.

[@xymaryai8283]

i feel like beauty is still super racialised, and that maybe "genres" of beauty should be more seperated, but i have no clue so maybe thats dumb

[@_Atzin]

That sounds like it would make the issue much worse

[@xymaryai8283]

@@_Atzin yeah... thats probably likely, but i think if it was executed well it could be better. ethnic groups would still have their own beauty standards but instead of labeling it that way, instead its - very generally - like how different cultures like different genres of music, and those genres aren't always defined by their ethnicity, like the cultures in Mali who picked up guitars and started doing some crazy cool rock stuff with them, it might be that a culture could adopt a genre of beauty and rock it like no one else. maybe thats naive, but eh this is a youtube comment section

[@megarat1777]

Fromt facing vaush=prey

[@lukec1471]

I hate to be that guy but who’s the girl on the left at 8:11

[@angusmarch1066]

Jisoo from Blackpink (I think)

[@angelceja9534]

The luck I must have for me to click on this video with 69 likes