The MCU Ruined Spiderman & Other Media Takes

Tobey MaGuire was the best Spiderman.
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#spiderman #MCU

[@eccentriastes6273]

The three great enemies of Vaush: alt-righters, tankies, and Marvel movies.

[@opheliagrey2597]

With the secret final boss: Chat

[@FishfaceTheDestroyer]

DLC: Anime and Br*tish people

[@leezus7875]

Hearing Vaush casually dismiss Netflix Daredevil is heartbreaking. Best thing in the MCU.

[@Infinite_voyager]

Comparing it to the flash, ffs

[@movieblocks9164]

He said later on stream that he would check out daredevil and doom patrol.

[@MattZaharias]

Jessica Jones was also pretty darn solid.

[@IAmVenix]

Daredevil is garbage wym

[@goldbyrd3667]

@@IAmVenix no u

[@zotaninoron3548]

Fun fact, Gimli's actor John Rhys-Davies was the tallest of the entire fellowship at 6'1". Beating Viggo Mortensen, Orlando Bloom and Ian McKellen (all 5'11"), the next tallest by 2 inches.

[@trucluu7894]

That’s kinda ironic, isn’t it?

[@MrHistory269]

Lmaoo the irony

[@ANapkin]

Also, a majority of the scenes without a direct shot of Gimli's face were the stunt double for Gimli who was under 5 feet tall. The stunt double had more screen time than the official actor but didn't get credited for it

[@Pluveus]

Part of the reason the Hobbit was shit is because they had to throw out like 90% of del Toro's pre production.

[@scoople6]

It still pains my heart that we didn't get to see an inspired take on the Hobbit from Del Toro. I don't know why it didn't work out but I feel like it would have been really special.

[@deoxyribomorph99]

He would have definitely brought some interesting artistic vision to it. Obviously that's not what the studio was going for, so we got saddled with the sterile, boring 10 hour snooze fest instead.

[@Southboundpachyderm]

The problem I have with the MCU is that after the avengers movie, there’s NO reason for indvidual hero movies anymore. It makes no sense that a villain like mysterio pops up and Spider-Man just has to deal with him on his own. I’m always just wondering during the solo movies why the fuck the avengers wouldn’t go help whoever it is. They always use some lame excuse like “they’re off dealing with other shit”. The threats no longer feel manageable by one character because they have to keep one upping the last movie.

[@zachantes1161]

The Mysterio one is explained tho, and the Avengers don't come together to solve every problem. They aren't going to all go after every random terrorist or villain, they are specifically for world threatening shit. All the single hero movies (many of which also include other heros anyway) have reasons for the other Avengers not being there. They are always fighting someone else (in their own movies) don't have time/can't call the other, or there are some other circumstances. It's never just "no avengers because", there's always a legitimate reason. They aren't lame excuses for them not being there, it's a universe, the entire point is there's other shit going on. Tldr; It's a cinematic universe, characters will be doing their own shit, and you don't need all the Avengers every time there's a bad guy.

[@ClintsGrievances]

This argument could be applied to every solo character comic being published right now. Why have a Cap, Ironman or Black Widow book when they're in the Avengers? Why have a Wolverine book when he's in the X-Men?

[@Southboundpachyderm]

@@zachantes1161 no, I get what you’re saying and I agree that’s the point. That’s what I’m criticizing. It’s a lame ass point that “other shit is going on and this isn’t a world ending threat”. What mysterio was doing was at the end depicted as a world ending threat, even if by illusion and still no avengers. Outside of that, why would the avengers just let someone deal with shit on their own when they could much more easily and efficiently deal with it together? It’s really not even a marvel problem more as it’s a problem with super hero team movies in general.

[@zachantes1161]

@@SouthboundpachydermMysterio was revealed to be the bad guy at the end of the film. There is less than a day between Peter finding out Mysterio is the villain and the final fight, and the entire time he didn't know who he could trust because Mysterio could masquerade as anybody. There wasn't enough time to get the Avengers to London for the fight before it was too late, so Spiderman had to step up and deal with it. Besides Mysterio the Avengers tend to leave smaller things to the other departments (remember, they aren't an actual crime fighting force, they are only called when absolutely required) like law enforcement. If they convened for every single little threat then that's all they would ever do, they would just be glorified cops. Most of the time they even get involved in things on their own is by happenstance or because it's something directly affecting them like Ironman (with his villains being a business partner, man who wants revenge for his father, and a terrorist who comes after him specifically) and Captain America (with Hydra and Bucky) The only person who ever goes after low level threats regularly is Spiderman, because that's his entire personality. He's the friendly neighborhood spiderman, and it's also why he's the only one to notice how serious a threat someone like the Vulture is while Shield (and through them the Avengers) were going to let the FBI handle it as a regular gun runner situation. The point is that it's really easily explained why the Avengers don't come to handle every threat, you just want to complain about it being a super hero team franchise (despite only four of the movies actually having the entire team).

[@synthiandrakon]

That works if it's the guardians fighting a villain on a distant planet, but it's hard to accept these huge problems are happening on earth and no one came to help. I mean it's not just the avengers there are abengers adjacent groups, I'm supposed to believe that there is a potential world ending event and the super powerful kingdom of wakanda doesn't step in, with or without the presence of their king.

[@PowercellZeke]

Sam Raimi was also a master of using practical effects, especially in the Holy Trilogy. Doc Ocks arms are all puppets, there aren't many shots where they're CGI. And yeah, Tobey's Spider-Man has the best writing

[@john-oh9cr]

I agree with that and I wish that they would never had the symbiote in Spider-Man 3 . what are your thoughts on The amazing Spider-Man movies . I personally think it's some of the best yet .

[@PowercellZeke]

@@john-oh9cr I enjoy Spider-Man 3 a lot, but agree the movie would have been much better if Sam was given complete creative control, which would have meant no symbiote, as much as I enjoy it. I think the TASM movies have genuine issues, but I think they're a lot better than people give them credit for. I wouldn't say they're better than the OG trilogy, but there's a lot to love about them.

[@john-oh9cr]

@Erik Kemeey how am I a MCU hater . I say that because the amazing Spider-Man movies were more about Gwen Stacy and her death , and the impact on Peter . throughout the course of the whole MCU adventure for Spider-Man , he truly is not the Spider-Man that I know untill the end of nwh . where he chooses to sacrifice his relationships with Ned and MJ for the greater good . Spider-Man is not the wall crawling and web slinging . Spider-Man is about sacrifice . webbs version of Spider-Man in the amazing Spider-Man movies are my favorite , does not mean I am a MCU hater . I think the journey of Peter Parker to become the Spider-Man that we know through the course of three movies have been something that I've actually rather enjoyed .

[@john-oh9cr]

@@PowercellZeke that's where we are different I would actually say they are better than the original trilogy only because part 2 is a continuation of part 1 . and the death of Gwen Stacy is something that is straight out the comics . personally I think if they would have just focused on the green goblin it would have been better . but those are just my thoughts .

[@vanyadolly]

@@john-oh9cr As much as 3 is overcrowded, I think they made a fantastic choice turning Peter into the real villain of that movie through the symbiote subplot. Not because it makes him evil, but because he lets his pride get away from him.

[@nahuelkid]

MCU Spiderman is the Avengers' pet pretty much and he doesn't feel as relatable. Also both the movies don't really have interesting themes or memorable scenes.

[@lorifoldvary836]

I’d disagree on the scenes part Like in homecoming when Peter is stuck in that empty warehouse thing for the night and chats with the suits’ AI or the scene with Donald Glover too is pretty cute and when the identity of the Vulture is revealed on prom night or when Spider-Man (not Peter lol) lifts all that rubble is dope as fuck In Far From Home the bar scene with Beck or the night stroll with MJ is very nice, Mysterio kicking Spider-Man’s ass with all the double switcheroo is cool and then theres that scene with Happy on the plane that has some of those f e e l s (though i find all that high tech tonystark shit annoying) And then the final battle with Mysterio is awesome too, especially like the end you know Also most jokes landed for me and both final scenes are a bop and hilarious But yeah I too really hate Spider-Man being kindof like an Avenger underling? They tried to sorta address this in Homecoming but FFH again has Peter running errands for Fury. And then in No Way Home they pair him with Dr Strange who is basically Tony Stark but Pepsi. So uhhhhhh why cant Spider-Man be his own thing gaddammit

[@nahuelkid]

@@lorifoldvary836 Homecoming has nice Peter scenes but the one cool Spiderman scene (him lifting the rubble) is ripped straight from the comic so I don't really count it. I guess he has the boat scene but that was trailer bait lets be honest In FFH they leaned WAY too much on him being in Tony's shadow without actually solving it. The Happy scene in the plane is nice on the surface but its just another moment of Iron Man stealing his thunder. Mysterio is awesome tho, loved how he was implemented. Tho I wished Peter losing his spider sense then conveniently getting it back was better explained. I'm worried for NWH cause now he has to share screentime not just with Strange, but with the 2 most beloved Spidey movie villains, reprised no less AND apparently also with the other 2 Spideys. Ffs just let Holland's Spiderman do his thing.

[@lorifoldvary836]

@@nahuelkid yeah I agree Spider-Man 3 was a mess with its 3 villains though a fun one I’m not like a big comic book reader so I give credit to the movies even if it’s not strictly original stuff Besides it must be pretty fucking hard to pick what and how to adapt, there are so many comics xd

[@Pllayer064]

Both standalone films are going straight into the trashcan of cinema history ok

[@CharliHarveyMusic]

@@lorifoldvary836 ... doctor strange was in the mirror dimension (because of peter) for almost the entire movie lmao what are you on

[@indigo714]

Spiderman was the working class hero. Once the MCU put Spiderman under the billionaire Iron Man's care, he stop becoming the working class hero

[@matthewrivera288]

It ain't that deep

[@georgecoconut8164]

Lmao this is a cringy interpretation

[@ywnrnf6028]

socialists cant own money

[@henrymudgett2646]

@@ywnrnf6028 Spider-Man isn’t a socialist. Superman used to be though

[@ywnrnf6028]

@@henrymudgett2646 a jest. a jape. quite possibly a joke

[@swampmiester7603]

Toby McGuire did the best Spiderman and I've been saying this

[@Matthew_Murray]

The big problem with the MCU in general is that tonally they are all the same to the point that they feel like a mad lib. It's movie by committee.

[@comradecam9530]

I love a lot of the MCU movies, but that's a fair criticism.

[@thereccher8746]

That's because people think it won't be the same property if the tones aren't the same. I lost count at how many people argued the Netflix shows aren't canon because they're tonally distinct from the movies.

[@TatoISR]

Out of all the things Vaush is getting cancelled for this is by far the most heinous

[@movieblocks9164]

we should cancel vaush and delete his channel over this. I'm saying it. This is a perfectly reasonable excuse to cancel vaushega.

[@newgameplusftw7036]

No he deserves it here

[@ryno4ever433]

I hope by that you mean he deserves it.

[@scytz0183]

Comparing Flash to Marvels Daredevil is really disrespectful

[@andrewf8366]

Yeah, we need to cancel for even thinking they're close to the same tier of quality.

[@carlmclemore6104]

Disrespectful to DD, I hope you mean.

[@carlmclemore6104]

He praised Frank Miller's work on Daredevil, but the Netflix series is a perfect adaptation of Miller's arc, "Man Without Fear."

[@thereccher8746]

Season 1 is like perfect television to me. Season 2 was incredibly fun and exciting, the Punisher stuff was top tier Daredevil. And I loved Matt's chemistry with Elektra. Season 3 was god-tier when Kingpin was on screen, but was eh otherwise.

[@Oldschool1943]

it is extremely overrated and its from Netflix 🤣

[@samlowrey]

Vaush please watch Daredevil the Netflix show it's unbelievably incredible and genuinely The Best Thing Marvel has ever created

[@TheInflicted]

He's always complaining about modern jump-cut fight choreography and how all Marvel properties are lit and colored the same. This is the one good exception to the rule. One season is all you need, though.

[@freedominart11]

@@TheInflicted season 1 and season 3 are the best for daredevil tho. Even season 2 has a good start with punisher's introduction.

[@TheShicksinator]

@@TheInflicted idk season 3 tied season 1 for me.

[@specialknees6798]

@@freedominart11 I think he just meant that all you need is one season to know how good it is, not that it’s only worth watching the first season.

[@SA-mo3hq]

I love that in a volatile political stream, the most incendiary topic is consistantly comics and anime

[@bluepearl_22]

I feel that says a lot about society as a whole.

[@masterplusmargarita]

There's a term for this. Sayre's Law: "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake". It's why I can calmly talk politics with my friends who I disagree with for hours, but then we get legitimately heated when discussing whether a hot dog is a sandwich.

[@kingofthebis1068]

CAUSE HIS TAKES ALWAYS SUCK

[@henrymudgett2646]

@@kingofthebis1068 his Batman takes, sure, but the MCU is nowhere near the best representation of Spider-Man

[@kingofthebis1068]

@@henrymudgett2646 So?

[@backwardsbandit8094]

I like Tom Holland as spiderman and I agree with Vaush that the character writing has fucked Spiderman real bad. His simping for iron man is pathetic and the story writing to shoehorn him into the MCU has completely robbed spiderman of his individuality. Mark from invincible is basically the new spiderman now

[@tyger5645]

If you’ve read the Invincible comics you would know this isn’t at all true. Mark and Peter are similar at first but they are completely different characters in the long run.

[@Oldmanplum]

I recently watched the Toby spidermans 1 & 2 and it made me kinda hate mcu spiderman. The mcu heroes just don't really have real problems, while those mundane problems and interpersonal relationships juxtaposed with a fantastical superhero world have always been what made spiderman so appealing. I know people don't like origin stories but the lack of uncle Ben kinda fucks over the core of Peter Parker's character

[@RainingSynthwave]

The best Spider-Man adaptations are the 90s cartoon, Spectacular Spider-Man, and Insomniac’s Spider-Man Edit: I’m not including Spider-Verse because I’m specifically talking about Peter Parker. Spider-Verse IS the best Spider-Man movie but Peter B Parker isn’t super accurate but it makes sense more than MCU Spider-Man

[@CODDE117]

To me, the most recent iteration is the most like Spectacular Spider-Man. Spectacular Spider-Man is so so so good.

[@lordbison1771]

I don’t like Insomniac Spidey having all the gadget stuff but I agree

[@RainingSynthwave]

@@lordbison1771 But Spider-Man has his own gadgets which is why it’s fine. People forget that Peter is an absolute genius and makes technology on a shoestring budget. Insomniac’s Spider-Man having technology is still accurate to the character

[@lordbison1771]

@@RainingSynthwave I understand but I feel he’s at his best when all he’s got is his web shooters and his intelligence instead of having random drones and other Batman gadgets. It works for gameplay stuff but not so much as a character thing if that makes sense

[@madsceptictrooper6803]

Let's not forget about Spider-Verse.

[@gespensttype-r68]

6:25 - "You lose things when everything gets rolled in to the same universe" This man understands. This is one of the reasons why I'm not invested in mainstream comics as they are. It's also ONE of the reasons I dislike Disney.

[@JARV9701]

I remember a friend telling me "Look at this Flash scene, looks great, etc..." After seing it the only thing I could think was: "How do I tell him, How do I tell him?!"

[@roblestito93]

Or you know, you could just let him enjoy what he likes xDlol

[@JARV9701]

@@roblestito93 I did, but my God, if it looks bad. Also, he asked for what I thought of it, but I had to lie so I wouldn't hurt his little heart.

[@roblestito93]

@@JARV9701 i heard it starts of fine in the first few seasons, i guess it just dipped down in quality after that huh.

[@eb2681]

@@roblestito93 yup, the first season is good. Second season okay. Gets worse from there.

[@Shellshock39]

Literally all of Marvel's media outside of movies, with the exception Spider-man PS4 and Spider-verse, is so samey. They ALL try to emulate the MCU. For example, Ultimate Alliance 3 was PACKED full of MCU references to the point of actual cringe. Same with Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. I like the MCU but I think it helped stagnate media outside of movies.

[@darryljack6612]

For Real, if you even watch new Marvel cartoons compared to old ones, you can see that they are trying to replicate the MCU HARD.

[@prdeadpool1380]

Ultimate Alliance 3 had characters that weren't even in the mcu ,the hell you on about

[@deoxyribomorph99]

Scorsese was right about the MCU, tbh. They feel more like theme park rides than actual compelling, character-driven stories at this point. And the QUIPPING! Always with the obnoxious quipping!

[@charltonrodda]

FYI, Spider-Verse was Sony, not Marvel. They still own the movie rights, I think.

[@bigpooper4156]

The marvel game with Kamala Khan is hard to watch

[@Kevo6492]

While Vaush is correct about the dilution of the MCU, I will say it’s not exclusive to the MCU. Films go and come in trends, especially corporate mainstream ones. Think about all the slasher films in the wake of Halloween, how 90’s blockbusters all have similar language in terms of cinematography, exploitation films in the 70’s, etc. Honestly, this was worse in Hollywood’s history despite the complaints of modern blockbusters and mainstream films being diluted from IP focus corporate backing, the film code from the 30’s to the 60’s stifled creativity way worse than modern filmmaking. Honestly, there is more of a range of filmmaking done today, than any point in history. Like gaming and music, modern tech and the internet is allowing indie filmmakers to flourish. You just have to look for it.

[@FelisImpurrator]

The true enemy was capitalism all along.

[@deoxyribomorph99]

Yes! It's a great era for indie movies, and hollywood has always been mostly terrible.

[@filmfreck]

One thing about the original Spiderman movies I really love and the MCU is really missing. Is seeing the public reacting to spiderman Like one of the most memorable scenes to me in that entire trilogy is when Spiderman has been unmasked on the subway. But all the people there promises to not to tell anyone. You just don't get anything like that in the MCU.

[@ASolidSnack]

Shared universes become a bad thing when the characters are being molded to fit them, instead of the shared universe molding itself for that character to fit. MCU Spider-Man is the perfect example, he's made specifically to work as an Avengers film character, not as an individual in his own series.

[@FelisImpurrator]

That's everyone though. Iron Man himself got the shaft very early. Everything after Iron Man 3 exists only by completely disregarding Iron Man 3. Ultron? Bullshit magic retcon. Civil War? Everyone is out of character just to make it like the comics. And so on.

[@conniescurse7325]

@@FelisImpurrator "That's everyone though." That's one of the many reasons the MCU is bad in general.

[@user-kq5ci7ol8o]

@@FelisImpurrator How are they out of character? Last time we saw Tony he created a bot that nearly destroyed the planet cause he was able to do so without issue of having to answer to anyone, and last time we saw Captain America he was disillusioned with the idea that government should be trusted due to how many things are going behind the scenes that they don't know about, their stances makes complete sense given their previous film before that

[@user-kq5ci7ol8o]

@Aditya Chavarkar It was still in character, he decided he wasn't just a suit, he was someone who tried to fight for the betterment of mankind, and what did he believe would make mankind better? For everyone to be have something that could protect them when it was needed, an immidiate a response, a 1 second army, or Ultron, it made sense, while in hindsight it was a bad idea, thats like saying "Oh you can't try to make the world more safe/better, cause maybe it'll fail, or make it worse" Tony was completely in character to have done what he did, and seeing as he later went on to make Vision, clearly it's not like he's bad at it, it's just that he's not perfect at it

[@user-kq5ci7ol8o]

TLDR, he made a mistake that he would make in character, which led him to be part of the accords faction, which would be in character, as he felt he fucked up, and needed to make sure, neither he nor anyone else would be able to make that mistake again, tldr, the only way you can claim he's out of character, is you think his character is either perfect, and wouldn't do a mistake ever, or if you thought he wouldn't feel bad for the mistakes he's one, which given how he was introduced in his first film, being any, or both of those things would be 110& out of character for him, I get not liking the MCU, but its people like the guy I responded to that seem to just hate everything about it, and never give it the credit it's due, everyone is civil war is in character, unless you expect Steve to just go back on what he did last film and just decide "Nah, my friend can go fuck himself", and Black Panther to just go "Yeah, my fathers killer can do whatever, who cares, I'm not gonna do anything about it", and War Machine who's a government agent to go "Fuck the government", and Falcon, and Winter Soldier who went through all of winter soldier to go "Fuck off Cap, we can 100% trust the government" etc, and etc

[@UnorthodoxIndividual]

Spiderman 3 is NOT GOOD, chat is literally just delusional lol The best scenes in the movie are the terrible attempts at establishing a tone and falling flat so they're funny, or the Sandman scene where he becomes Sandman, which is unironically pretty damn great isolated from everything else in the movie.

[@jessec.6876]

Yeah, it's not good but i'd rather watch spider-man 3 than any Amazing Spider-man movie. Spider-man 3 at least has the first two films to support the character growth and it is shot very well.

[@lunali7209]

still better than mcu spider man movies esp that dumpster fire far from home

[@junjiito6298]

@@lunali7209lmao shut up raimi fanboy. Literally the mcu movies shit on the raimi films and i say this as a fan of those films.

[@PBDNR]

the sandman scene was so touching and I was mesmerized by it when rewatching spider-man 3 a few months ago. The rest of the time watching was spent either cringing or being really bored. A few other times were spent laughing at things that I'm not sure were jokes.

[@Kevo6492]

Spider-Man 3 has some great ideas that don’t get executed well. Although I will say, another aspect besides Sandman’s origins that was done well is Peter in his ahole phase. It’s supposed to be cringeworthy when he’s thrusting his hips, that’s the whole point lmao.

[@broadnerdmike6450]

It’s therapeutic to hear someone talk about the MCU with anything but undying praise. I like the MCU movies but the unfettered loyalty many people have to them is gross.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

If they can't spot a difference in quality between Iron Man and Captain America, I don't trust their opinion on the rest. There are about 5 good MCU films, the rest range from ok to bad.

[@synthiandrakon]

This is 100% a nitpick but in the MCU movie it feels like they made Peter Parker performatively poor, I mean they gave him a computer with a crt monitor and it felt ridiculous. At this point if you still have a functioning computer that old it's a sign of wealth not poverty, that shit breaks all the time and is too slow to be usable, so the only people who maintain them are hobbiests. He also finds a dvd player on the street and is excited that it works, realistically Peter Parker would probably have a cheap laptop and pirate movies, the 20 year old computer and the dvd player feel out of touch with what being poor is actually like

[@UnorthodoxIndividual]

Spiderverse is the best Spider Man Movie of all time, and outside of The Incredibles it's also the best superhero movie of all time I feel like people forget this when they compare the MCU and Sam Raimi spider man movies

[@andrewhaxton1076]

Also, props to spider verse for nailing a cross over film for it's first film

[@juniper3955]

@@andrewhaxton1076 I find a lot of stuff about multiple universes in superhero media can feel extremely cluttered. Spiderverse managed to avoid that feeling entirely despite pulling 6 different web-spinners and showcasing a wide variety of villains.

[@themangoman9315]

its like comparing the Mona Lisa to a children's drawing

[@FelisImpurrator]

Spider-Verse is an obscenely high bar to clear. It's like, once in a generation great. It's a 10/10, and comparing the MCU's maybe 7.5-8 average is a little unfair to movies that were trying mainly to be mainstream entertainment, not literally pushing the limits of technical and artistic excellence.

[@madsceptictrooper6803]

I'm glad I'm not only one who considers Spider-Verse as the best Spider-Man movie here.

[@taytaytay3757]

Ngl, Raimi's Spiderman 3 is underrated. I rewatched it a while back and damn, is it pretty great.

[@claires1063]

It's a fucking *terrible* movie and I love it.

[@Odinsday]

Half of the movie is great and the other half is awful, but the good kind of awful. Overall, 7/10.

[@claires1063]

@@Odinsday The entire thing is delicious garbage.

[@Medytacjusz]

I unironically believe that too. The parts that were good were *really* good. The parts that were bad, well, to me there were just as many of them as in the others. Yes, it had a lot of shit crammed in, but if you paid attention instead of scrolling twitter with one hand, and scrolling reddit with other, it wasn't hard to follow. Nobody dies of needing to focus a tiny bit more.

[@TheZachary86]

It’s not underrated. I’d say it was sabotaged by producers who wanted venom in the movie. Sure Raimi could have handled it better but the reason why it’s a bad movie is studio interference

[@BrowncoatAllywang]

Imo every Spider-Man adaptation has it's strengths and weaknesses, and each is missing something fundamental to the character. The Raimi films have classic villains and the classic status quo of Spider-Man. He works at the Bugle, he's best friends with Harry Osborne, JJJ hates him, he's poor etc. These films are undoubtedly the strongest representation of the working class background of the character. These films handle the responsibility and guilt complex of the character the best, even if it does lean too far into melodrama. The Raimi films fail for me because the co-leads, Peter and MJ, are just thoroughly unlikeable and uncharismatic as people. Peter is supposed to be timid before the spider bite, but Tobey's Peter never really grows past that. Comic book adult Peter Parker has many chad-like qualities that are missing from this version. MJ is also incredibly toxic in this version. This Peter Parker also rarely seems to actually enjoy having powers or being Spider-Man. The Amazing Spider-Man rectifies this by having two very charismatic leads with great chemistry. I know people think Andrew is too charismatic, but I think that's just a meme that people have latched onto that's not true to the films. People think that because he skateboards and dresses like a hipster that he's too cool to be Peter, whilst ignoring his obvious social anxiety, isolation, unresolved childhood trauma and speech impediment. I fully believe that his character would be a social outcast, but people can't look past the fact that he's hot. By the way, this is a stupid argument as comic book Peter is hot as fuck. Andrew's Peter is also the only one with the bitter chip on his shoulder that i feel is integral to the character. Peter has been shat on his entire life, and his sardonic humour is just to mask his anger and alienation. Peter can be a real angsty loner and these films try to capture that. Rebellion is also a huge part of the character that's missing from other versions. I also think these films highlight Peter's intelligence more than the others. These films fail however through unnecessary modernisation, trying to avoid the tropes already done by the Raimi films, inconsistent tone, overcomplicating the backstory, and just general poor storytelling. Tom's Spider-Man nails the light hearted youthfulness of the character. His films are generally fun which is not something you can reliably say for the others, and has the benefit of being in a shared universe which i feel is integral to the character. In his first issue Peter meets the Fantastic Four, he's always been a crossover character. In the Marvel comics universe, people treat Spider-Man like a joke because they don't see how he can measure up against Captain America or Iron Man or the Fantastic Four. He's the ultimate underdog because people view him as just a local neighbourhood idiot in spandex, or a creepy bug man, or a menace. In a world where he is the only superhero I don't think anyone would ever see him this way, he would be viewed as a god amongst men. How could he possibly be the underdog? I think where these films fail is being forced to make unnecessary changes to distance themselves from the other films, such as Ned and MJ, being forced to stick to the "Marvel formula" instead of having their own identity, the complete disregard for the secret identity and the abandonment of the class conscious themes integral to the character. To be clear, I really like Zendaya as MJ, her nerdy character reminds me of ultimate MJ. I just think Marvel called her Michelle Jones instead of Mary Jane because they were cowards afraid of the backlash of having a black Mary Jane. I find Ned enjoyable but also completely superfluous, and it's weird that Betty looks and acts exactly like Gwen but isn't Gwen for reasons? I find Tom's Peter ultimately too submissive and eager to please. He gets constantly chewed out by Tony and Fury and presumably Dr Strange in the next one, and I feel like if those characters spoke to comic book Peter like that he would snap and tell them to fuck off. Instead, Tom makes a kawaii face and says "gee I'm so sorry mistah, I'll try and do better" like a good little boy. Comic book Peter would also have a big problem with Tony for being a capitalist oligarch. I think it's a big missed opportunity to not have this Peter question his role in Civil War, and whether he was on the right side, as I feel he was quite clearly groomed and gaslighted into supporting Tony despite Cap aligning much closer to his own personal moral philosophy. Homecoming had the bare minimum of class conscious storytelling and they seem to have abandoned that for later installments. Make Parasite starring Spider-Man you cowards. Anyway, the best Spider-Man adaptations are Into the Spider-Verse, Insomniac and Spectacular Spider-Man, as I feel like these have all the best elements of the three live action versions, plus the missing elements i just described. Vaush bad. Also all of these adaptations are missing the fact that comic book Peter Parker FUCKS.

[@italucenaz]

Not gonna read all that, I read a couple of lines and liked it, so good job, I bet the rest is good too

[@GlitzPixie]

wow imagine being this fucking based. Read all of this and agree with nearly every word, very good breakdown

[@carlmclemore6104]

Man, this may have been one of the best breakdowns/analyses of the Spider-Man films that I've read online.

[@carlmclemore6104]

@@GlitzPixie haha, I read your comment after posting my own, couldn't agree more. He should be a pop culture critic.

[@carlmclemore6104]

@@italucenaz for what it says, not that long, just longer than the average KZbin comment. He should expand it into an article or KZbin video.

[@ihaveasecret9539]

MCU’s handling of Spider-Man has been really disappointing. The Insomniac PS4 Spider-Man game is how I wished the MCU portrayed him.

[@henrymudgett2646]

The MCU is disappointing, but oddly enough, in some ways entertaining. I like that they’re demonstrating his strength more, if that means anything. Still no Uncle Ben though.

[@jameskub5609]

Having him be older helps. It’s really hard for me to care about his high school drama when high school drama is literally the most meaningless thing in all of existence.

[@jjdude5531]

I also wish Spiderman was Sasuke :(

[@billybobmcjohnson8526]

The netflix marvel shows are nothing like the dc cw soap operas. Daredevil, jessica jones, punisher were all great

[@Beelzeboogie]

The first 2 Sam Raimi movies are like... almost one to one recreations of the earliest Spider-Man comics from 1962 onwards.

[@Kevo6492]

In some aspects, yes, in others no. They used one of the biggest events in Spider-Man with a different character and didn’t kill that character like in the comics. That’s a pretty huge difference in terms of development for the character.

[@Zeberai]

Tobey's Peter Parker definitely captured the struggling misfit vibes from the original. Then Garfield's was a sexy bad boy for some reason which kind of ruined it,. and Holland's is cute and charming which could work if he wasn't also sponsored by a billionaire.

[@coolbanana165]

@@trappedinamerica7740 I thought the webs being a power, rather than something a student somehow made, made more sense to me.

[@deoxyribomorph99]

@@Zeberai Yes, the original concept behind spiderman was that he was a loner who didn't let the fact that the whole world rejected him turn him into a spiteful, bad person. Issue 1 of his own series is him getting rejected by the Fantastic Four for being brash and arrogant, and he realizes he's got to make it as a hero himself, while keeping his ego in check. Spiderman works best when he's on his own, trying to make things work despite all the terrible cards that are constantly being dealt to him. To have him be a subservient protégé to a gazillionaire tech mogul just feels...off.

[@dizzycee3607]

As someone who recently went through those issues. They are super not. Raimi's Spidey never really conveyed who early Peter was. Raimi's Peter is a good kid and Kinda awkward. Early Marvel Comics Peter is an ASSHOLE INCEL. The obtaining of powers didn't corrupt 1962 peter, it exasperated a self aggrandizing insufferable douchebag that was already there. Hell, Uncle Ben doesn't matter until the King Pin story line roughly 5 years later. You can like Raimi's Spider-man, but don't lie about what he's like. He is super not the comics Spidey, and especially not the era of Spidey Comics he's supposed to be conveying

[@echs457]

by far the only thing vaush could say that could push me to the far right

[@BlackThoughtTheOverLord]

Surprisingly Vaush (and I'm not being an MCU apologist here) but the reason why we have a Spider-Man so beholden to Tony Stark/Iron Man is because when Sony allowed Marvel Studios to use Spider-Man in Civil War, it was agreed that an MCU character should show up in this new Spider-Man 1st movie (hence Iron Man and now Doctor Strange). This wasn't Marvel Studios idea but Sony, which from their point of view you can understand why they insisted on it as part of deal given the popularity of the MCU.

[@bluepearl_22]

They should've made Steve Rodgers his mentor. There's basically no way Peter would've chosen Iron Man's side in Civil War and I feel the makers knew that which is why they had to invent the whole "I'll make you a new suit" plotline as a way to force him to support Tony.

[@jakitron890]

I both do and do not get the hate towards Marvel movies

[@ABCodeX]

I honestly prefer MCU and Garfield interpretations of Peter Parker/ Spider-Man. I feel like the old movies went to hard on Peter/Spidey being this perfect angel that could do know wrong, when in the comics he was someone with anger issues as well as always being arrogant prick who slowly matured throughout the early issues. Not only that, Peter believe or not had hobbies outside of being a science nerd which the old movies ignored. They’re good movies, but were pretty 1dimensional when portraying the main character.

[@sharkythegw7843]

"perfect angel that could do no wrong" *Flashback to him smacking the shit out of MJ*

[@ABCodeX]

@@sharkythegw7843 He’s literally under the influence of a parasitic creature that feeds off negative emotions.

[@user-kq5ci7ol8o]

@@ABCodeX Or in other words, didn't do it himself, he was being manipulated, thats like blaming Jessica Jones for anything she did while being hypnotized under the "Well she was the one who did, and she could have fought back harder, so she's technically at fault" argument

[@ROBOTPETER101]

This, I hate that the movies dropped him from this sort of genuine everyman kinda kid that sometimes acts rash, he gets into petty fights with friends, hell Peter in the comics really wasn't that socially awkward outside the first few issues. He asked for girls on dates, made plans to go out with friends, and sure they don't work out but he still tried to live a normal life. Raimi movie Peter doesn't seem to do anything unless he's pushed hard whenever he doesn't have the suit on post Uncle Ben getting served like a bowl of rice. He can barely talk to even his close very few friends, is a complete pushover even if he's clearly wronged and...well outside of being smart his personality is kinda flat. He's what the bullies in the comics THOUGHT Peter was because of his Spider-Man duties rather than what he actually was. Peter and Spider-Man aren't like Bruce Wayne and Batman, they shouldn't have such drastically different personalities.

[@melaniey.5596]

@@ABCodeX actually those negative emotions weren’t created in Peter by the parasite, just were bought to the forefront. Even Peter acknowledges them with in his final talk with Sandman. If you have time and movie themes analysis types videos interest you, I recommend watching Like Stories of Old video “The unexplored depths of Spierman 3: Facing the Dragon of Gradiosity”. Even as a stand-alone video it’s really good because it uses the movie to explore philosophical themes.

[@kropotkinnie]

always really confused as to how so many leftists defend marvel movies and disney's marvel stuff when it's kinda the perfect example of a series devoid of creativity in pursuit of a mega corporation's profit that being said thor ragnarok slaps and so does shang chi

[@melaniey.5596]

Yeah is sus how Marvel movies and series have taken a very pro-government and rainbow capitalist direction, but I can’t blame people for having their guilty pleasures (and as far as guilty pleasures go, Marvel isn’t all that bad). And I admit that when they hit well, they really hit (additional shout-out to Black Panther and WandaVision!)

[@Courier_333]

You mention two incredibly mediocre films compared to the best lol. Iron Man 1, Captain America 2, Guardians 1 and 2 are Soo much better in every way

[@gudboah4688]

I thought spiderverse established that anyone could wear the mantle? Also Tom’s spider man does encounter villains that are intertwined into his personal life. Vulture was his crush’s dad ffs. Also, Tobey and Tom are the best. Ps. Vaush bad for his Spider-Man takes /s

[@darryljack6612]

The problem with using Vulture as an example, is that vulture doesnt do or became vulture, or for that matter personally target the MC because of anything relating to specifically Peter/ Spiderman, but because of Tony Stark. The Vulture in the MCU is more a less a IronMan villain that has been skinned as a spiderman villain. Other that the RANDOM ass fact that the vulture is his barely known or interacted with prom date's dad. There is no strong connection between them, like that of his other badguys like we see in the other spiderman movies, or the ps4 games.

[@lunavioleta001]

No. Both Vulture and Mysterio exist because of Iron Man. Had nothing to do with Spiderman in the MCU. In all three movies, Spider-Man always has a mentor or another character from the MCU. No MCU Spiderman movie has yet to stand on their own two feet.

[@junjiito6298]

The only smart comment so far.

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@darryljack6612 Dude. That's how most villains come into existence in the comics. Going way back. There's a whole bunch that were literally relevant solely because of Kingpin or Green Goblin fucking around. Spider-Man has not generally been the type to create all his supervillains. it wasn't even that often that they had personal grudges against just him, Goblin/Kraven/Venom etc notwithstanding. What even is that argument?

[@darryljack6612]

@@FelisImpurrator ??? Do you not read? I didnt say that Peter creates all of his villains, i said that Peter has a strong Relation to the majority of his villains. Goblin has strong relation to Spiderman because of Peter and because Peter's relationship with Harry. Venom has a Strong Relation to Peter and SpiderMan alike, because of the actions done to and with both the symbiote and Brock in his dual life. You see this relation especially in the recent venom run. Kraven wanted a hunt, and Spiderman's existence invited said hunt, which made Kraven not just one Spiderman's dangerous foes, but one of Peter's and put those he cared about as risk and brought the danger to him. Do you get the picture? These threats and Peter share a strong or semi strong relation, because of the duality and life of either peter or Spiderman. No such relation is present for peter in the MCU, because both of his threats dont actually care about Parker or Spiderman. There is no real weight between or true connection of the hero or villain, in these movies. That would exist if Peter was on his own.

[@MrHistory269]

Glad he mentioned lotr That trilogy was amazing

[@nahguacm]

I wanna know what happened when there was a cut and all the chat was screaming CUT THAT OUT lol

[@frostbite3318]

Vaush chat always had a meltdown when he talks movies

[@CODDE117]

Spider-Man Homecoming was exactly what you were talking about. A villain that is all personal and issues in his real life at school and shit.

[@hazelgascoigne4712]

no everything from the vultures origin to his motviation stems more from iron-man and economic struggles that have nothing to do with peter. the only thing that connects them at all is tony stark and of course liz. but him being liz's dad is not very important to the story. spider-man in homecoming is literally putting thousands of poeple's lives at risk to protect the property of a billionaire from a working class man. it's all over the place and not even comparable to the raimi trilogy.

[@henrymudgett2646]

Vulture was a good villain, up until it came to how they dealt with his backstory. Nay, all of Spider-Man’s conflicts in the MCU have had nothing to do with his struggles as Spider-Man, but with either Tony Stark or the Wider Marvel Universe. No villains have a particular grudge against him, nor do they particularly want to hurt him or his loved ones. In fact, they tend to try not to hurt his loved ones, for different reasons of course. Spider-Man just serves as an obstacle rather than a challenge.

[@ClintsGrievances]

@@hazelgascoigne4712 "spider-man in homecoming is literally putting thousands of poeple's lives at risk to protect the property of a billionaire from a working class man." This is madness. Vulture ceased be a working class when he became a criminal. You think Spidey should've let Vulture steal a plane full of Stark-tech and sell it all on the black market, thus arming dozens of other criminals with high-tech weaponry?

[@hazycat8466]

Did you forget that the tech Vulture sold to criminals managed to completely obliterate the bank they were robbing as well as the corner store Peter goes to every day? The owner almost died in that blast. Peter was trying to stop the use of highly dangerous alien tech from being used out on the streets by idiots/lunatics.

[@hazelgascoigne4712]

@@ClintsGrievances I'm not saying he's not doing anything wrong but, yes in this exact situation, crash landing the plane in Manhattan could've and should've been, if not for plot Armor, way worse than letting him get away.

[@sheeemt399]

I've been saying that entire goddamn thing. The new spider man is just an sidekick

[@grilledmoistpeepee6682]

MCU is mediocre, what else is there to expect.

[@nedmode9412]

nah

[@MarkArandjus]

9:54 Phil Lord and Christopher Miller. Everything they produce has this incredible energy and character and artistry. Star Wars nerds should cry themselves to sleep every night knowing that they were removed from making that Han Solo movie.

[@casperchristiansen2458]

RAIMI SUPREMACISTS RISE UP!!!

[@CAVFIFTEEN]

This is Vaush’s most based take yet

[@johnned2114]

No

[@lunali7209]

mcu fans only argument about the raimi movies is "nostalgia" well if thats the case the reason why yall love the mcu spider man movies so much is recency bias

[@melaniey.5596]

I think that’s the counterargument people who like the most recent Spiderman movies (specifically the Sony and MCU) have, against people who say that the Raimi movies are better. ^_^; Regarding pro-Raimi arguments, I can say they are because their Spider-Man is more of an underdog and working class hero than the other two (the same of Into the Spiederverse Peter Parker and that’s what makes him great), and Raimi’s movie dramatic moments move me emotionally in ways the others don’t (not that Raimi doesn’t have its problem. It’s treatment of Mary Jane it’s pure yikes and a big negative point for me, and I can’t deny that there are parts that are pure cringe).

[@nedmode9412]

mcu fans are right

[@itsmike5757]

We're spoiled, I remember when all this shit was just a dream

[@junjiito6298]

Honestly. Also geeks have nothing better to do except argue over stupid shit. Its hard to sit down and enjoy shit anymore.

[@Kevo6492]

I used to read Word Up magazine…

[@prajwaljayaraj5887]

True but, they ruined it. The point was that superheroes show up in team up movies and then go back to their own universes instead of showing up in someone else's movie every time a movie drops

[@carlmclemore6104]

Marvel fan in the early 80's, saving every nickel I could rub together to buy Chris Claremont's X-Men or a New Mutants issue. Then "Crisis on the Infinite Earths" happened, and I was all about DC. Vaush's complaint about an interconnected universe sounds absurd. Well no shit it's marketing, it's also catering to what the fans want.

[@carlmclemore6104]

@@prajwaljayaraj5887 I don't think they ruined it, but your point is taken, they do really need to back up and give the solo movies a little more stand alone strength, particularly the Spider-Man films, who became Iron Lad with all of the cool toys, instead of the classic everyman loser from the comics, embodied perfectly by Rami and McGuire's take.

[@madsceptictrooper6803]

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse is my favorite Spider-Man movie and I consider it as the best Spider-Man movie ever and I'm totally hyped up for the sequel. To be honest, I'm not a big fan of MCU as a massive franchise. The only MCU movies that I absolutely love are both of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies. I used to love Spider-Man movies by Sam Raimi when I was kid. Yes, I watched first Sam Raimi Spider-Man movie when I was three years old. When I was nine years old, I even considered Spider-Man 3 as my favorite Spider-Man movie. Nowadays I still enjoy watching them, both ironically and unironically.

[@imsmart799]

what about spiderman ps4 game is way better than the mcu,

[@imsmart799]

what about spiderman ps4 game is way better than the mcu,

[@Ultratron563]

Once again Vaush with the bad Marvel takes. I do agree that the relationship with Tony isn't what I would have wanted but I think both movies do a fairly good job at making it clear that the point is that he's not Iron man jr but his own hero and that it's wrong for him to try so hard to be like Tony. Sure, both the villains he's had so far are villains becuase of Tony Stark but I don't really see how that's a problem. If you actually look at the other spider-man villains we've had in the Rami films not many of them actually become villains because of Peter, they become villains independent of that but just so happen to have some personal connection with Peter. Vulture might be a villain as a result of being screwed over by Stark but he still ultimately has a connection with Peter due to him being Liz's father, that's what makes that whole sequence in the car so great, it's actually very similar to the dinner scene in the first Rami film were Norman slowly realizes that Peter is Spider-man and that creates great tension so just to write him off as "just being an iron man villain" is silly, especially since Toomes is very much used narratively as a way of pushing Peter to focus on being a friendly neighborhood superhero rather then be Iron man 2.0. Now what about Mysterio? Again he becomes a villain because of Stark but he and Peter still form a connection so when the revelation that he's the villain occurs, it's kinda big deal. Even then, I don't need every Spider-man villain to have some connection to Peter's personal life or be motivated by a bad thing Peter did, even in the comics that's not always the case. I'm not saying the MCU has done Spider-man perfectly, I do think they're trying way to hard to differentiate themselves from the other movies but I still think they do a good job at getting the core elements of the character right, Peter still has to struggle balancing his personal and superhero life and he's still always doubting himself and insecure. Could it be better? yes, but I don't think it's a betrayal of the character personally. Anyways, Andrew Garfield is the best Peter Parker/Spider-man STAY MAD lol

[@rashaadpratt2011]

🧢 keep coping

[@Ultratron563]

@@rashaadpratt2011 lol

[@lunali7209]

cope

[@Ultratron563]

@@MatPost I actually enjoy ASM2 a lot, it's VERY MESSY but it still covers a lot of the beats I love about Spider-man. But yes, Garfield is an incredible actor and I'd take him over Tom and Tobey any day

[@Ultratron563]

@@lunali7209 epoc

[@Medytacjusz]

13:22 Exactly this! I have only ever enjoyed the first halves of superhero movies (and most action Holywood stuff as well). The latter half is just characters beating each other and throwing one-liners until the predictable ending. It all dissolves into noise.

[@VanguardSupreme]

Vaush is 90% correct about MCU Spider-Man. Among the 10% he's wrong about is his blaming the fact that Spidey co-exists with other heroes in the same universe. One of the hallmarks of Spider-Man used to be his independence form other heroes and the fact that, like the recent movies themselves mention, he's a "friendly _neighbourhood_ Spider-Man". You don't have to make up some excuses why some random superhero (or at least, you'd have to a lot less) when Spider-Man _doesn't_ have Tony Stark on speed dial. I loved the way the comics handled Spider-Man's and Iron Man's relationship in the comics during the Civil War/Initiative storyline: Iron Man convinces Spidey to fight on his side and makes him his red and gold Iron Spider suit, then Spider-Man realises Iron Man's an asshole and they fight, then it turns out Iron Man had booby-trapped the Iron Spider suit because he's an asshole, then it turns out Spider-Man had known Iron Man would booby-trap the suit and overrode the booby trap. That to me makes much more sense than Peter Parker kissing Tony Stark's ass.

[@prdeadpool1380]

You are so full of crap

[@VanguardSupreme]

@@prdeadpool1380 Oh no! You seem butthurt. Is everything alright?

[@henrymudgett2646]

@@prdeadpool1380 Homecoming isn’t a Spider-Man movie. It’s a movie that pretends to be Spider-Man without understanding the core themes, conflicts, and appeal of his character.

[@henrymudgett2646]

@Erik Kemeey no

[@henrymudgett2646]

@Erik Kemeey you ever gonna give an argument or just whine about the fact I’m objectively correct?

[@AndaraBledin]

If you want to see some insane practical camera effects from the good old days for that sort of effect, check out Darby O'Gill and the Little People from 1959. Corridor Crew did a bit about it on one of their FX Guys React vids.

[@tymelthompson4182]

Remember in Homecoming when Spider-Man (granted, inadvertently) destroyed that bodega and it's never mentioned again? "With great power, comes great responsibility".

[@WhoBlah21]

One thing I would say about this take is that it’s similar to how I feel about The Shocker as a character,in one of the comic adaptation the Shocker is fully aware of his position in the MCU and how he’s only interested in being a small scale criminal.

[@WayneManifesto]

Shangchi was nice but still all jump cuts

[@hasan7275]

i think Marvel absolutely could have done the spiderman movies in a way where they don’t give a fuck about the connectivity to the MCU. the problem is that they specifically made Peter Parker’s character in those movies ABOUT his relationship to the other MCU characters. he doesn’t do things because of his own motives and what he wants to do, he does things because he gets Avengers missions basically. edit: and ultimately, i prefer No Way Home over the other MCU spiderman movies because it’s actually about Peter Parker and spiderman as a concept.

[@blitz8425]

I like how he asks if into the spider verse could have been part of the MCU and uhh... yeah. It could have. It literally has the perfect premise for it lmao

[@TerminallyOnlineLeftist]

when I heard Raimi was coming back for the new Dr. Strange movie, I got so hyped

[@sanitorz232]

I hope they let him do his own thing though

[@Utgarman]

One thing I think a lot of people don't know is that in the comics, there was actually a period of time where Iron Man took Spider-Man under his wing and built him a suit exactly like in the MCU. The main problem I think however is that they basically skipped right to that point instead of arriving there naturally

[@justsomeguyontheinternet2251]

People also ignore the fact that Peter and Tony's relationship went to utter shit in the comics. Tony literally ruined Peter's life and Peter had to deal with the consequences of helping Tony during civil war. Peter and Tony aren't particularly close in the comics and the only time they were it ended horribly for Peter. Tony also made him the Iron Spider suit in the comics because he wanted Peter to join his side and because he wanted to recreate his spidersense for himself.

[@samwilson7044]

vaush is right about doc oc they're great everywhere

[@harukaru84]

as someone who watches some of the DC shows on CW, I think people expect the underfunded CW shows to have the quality of hollywood movies. Supergirl (the scene with the flash was in her show) she started on CBS it was not funded much but BUT they didn't use as much CGI for the characters, for example Martian Manhunter had a physical prop mask on in season 1. (that scene with the flash is also from season one that run on CBS) the CGI stuff was mostly for the super powers like freeze breathe and laser eyes, but Supergirl in season one was going more for normal drama than superhero stuff, while the CW shows are just superhero stuff, which allowed for the low budget and it didn't look bad, because everything was about the interpersonal relationships between the characters and not the villain of the week. when CBS cancelled Supergirl and CW took over, it both adapted to the CW CGI, and the story telling of the rest of the arrowverse, so the quality drop was way more visible. Martian Manhunter had a CGI face on and it looked REALLY bad. bottom line CW shows are CW shows, the CGI is horrendous, but if someone enjoys the stories being told then whatever. At least those of us who watch some of those shows we know that the CW is not going to cancel them and we will get to the end when the producers decide it's time to end them.

[@kenpatchiramasama1076]

i kinda wanna see vaush's opinion of superior spiderman since he seems to be such a fan of doc ock

[@milico2935]

Fun fact the Brazilian Dub for flash let slip into the scene one of the voice actors saying "what a shit dialogue"

[@neerkum5428]

Vulture in homecoming is pretty similar to green goblin, in how they already knew each other and were indirectly related in private life

[@Birthnote]

"Spiderverse was amazing, I'm not talking about Spiderverse." *AUTOMATIC LIKE.*

[@waka1834]

Best take from this type of discourse on twitter is “mcu is mcdonalds it’s cheap and bad but people will eat it and you shouldnt feel like a victim for liking mcdonalds, but you do like mcdonalds”

[@CharliHarveyMusic]

me and the boys casually disregarding the cast and crew who work on movies with interesting and thought-provoking themes because twitter

[@waka1834]

@@CharliHarveyMusic hey, it’s funny, it’s a fucking joke, if i cared that much or really felt like this, i wouldve stolen the joke and just said people are stupid for liking this, it’s just a fuckin joke, “because twitter” has nothing to do with this go outside lmao

[@Kaijutopia]

Tim Pool ruined the MCU for Vaush. I'm livid.

[@soph1111e]

Doom Patrol is literally the only capeshit tv show worth watching

[@SeamusCameron]

The Mythbusters got me hooked on the coolness that is practical effects. I love some good VG/CGI, but there's something truly special about the practical tricks.

[@thewrongsorcerer]

6:40 I feel like this moment would be good for some kind of meme remix

[@arob3987]

Oh my God Vaush please the Netflix Daredevil series is everything a good bare bones superhero sort of story needs to be. It's worth, dont compare it to Flash

[@CollinGerberding]

I'm sure I'm going to enjoy the next Holland spiderman; I've really enjoyed the first two. Still, I'm a little sad that they have to incorporate Dr. Strange to take over the role that was left by Tony Stark. He's so much a secondary lead in his own films. It's all about suspension of disbelief, but I'm having to work extra to ignore this.

[@Courier_333]

Dr strange has much more history with Peter in the comics compared to the weapon designer billionaire

[@dinodare1605]

Did you enjoy it?

[@rynegreen7902]

A couple of minutes in and Vaush explain perfectly my issue with MCU Spiderman. I hate how they basically turn him into Iron man jr and disregard the responsibility angle of his character. Like Vaush said, in Spiderman 1 and 2, we see Peter struggle with his responsibility as Spiderman at the cost of his personal life in a more meaningful way.

[@jordanelliot3972]

Marvel doesnt retread very often sooo

[@rynegreen7902]

@@jordanelliot3972 but Spiderman struggle with his responsibilities is a core aspect of his character though so removing that just turn him into Ironman Jr. What made Spiderman stand out from the other marvel character like Ironman, Thor, Captain America and other is that while he have powers, he was still a down on his luck average citizen who is barely getting by while still doing the right thing even when it cost him. Speculator Spiderman did a great job showing a high school Peter Parker that the MCU should had gone with

[@CayeDaws]

@@rynegreen7902 lol

[@jordanelliot3972]

@@rynegreen7902but that's really not his only struggle so instead of rereading ground they focused on what he wants vs what he must do Tom Holland movies featuring stories where he struggles to balance the two Also any one who says iron man jr kinda didn't get the last movies at all Like the words your not Tony are literally in the movies So other than him getting tech which is completely superficial and not in any way narrative based How is he iron man jr??

[@Carabas72]

But MCU Peter struggles with responsibity almost constantly. Does it really matter that much that he doesn't literally say the phrase "With great power comes great responsibility" out loud?

[@tristinmckinstry6467]

Vowsh disagrees with my Spider-Boi opinion? Wow Voosh bad.

[@Ren_Davis0531]

All the live-action Spider-Men have their strengths and weaknesses. The Raimi trilogy has the focus on character and pathos, but fails with the larger characterizations and character details. The Amazing Spider-Man had some good casting and ideas that were designed to speak true to the character, but ultimately crashed and burned by being too concerned with being the hip new thing. The MCU Spidey has Tom Holland who I think is the perfect casting for young Spidey, but the overall direction leaves a lot to be desired. Feels less like Spider-Man and more like Iron Man Jr. They can still be fun movies for what they’re worth, but they’re missing that deeper impact that the Raimi films had. I think if you combine the positives of all the films and you could get a great Spider-Man.

[@Gullysands]

I really miss Spider-Man movies where he’s the only superhero

[@Charolette21]

Funny thing about Tom’s Peter, he’s more like Lee and Ditco’s Spider-Man. So it’s kind of weird (and a little hilarious) that people who read the comics and love that Spider-Man and also loath Tom’s Parker.

[@Patthewwonis]

On the surface, yeah he is. Personality wise though, absolutely not. Can you imagine MCU Peter Parker randomly beating the shit out of the fantastic four because he feels like it? He lacks the edge

[@movieblocks9164]

well not exactly.... Lee and Ditko's spiderman hated iron man. He thought Iron man was an irresponsible rich boy with no accountability. Holland is a perfect casting choice, but the writing doesn't do anything to help him.

[@roblestito93]

@@movieblocks9164 you think that whole dynamic that Peter and Tony had in the comics would even work in the MCU tho? Considering MCU Tony is much more of a better person compared to his comic book counterpart, which, if Spider-Man was more accurate to his comic self in the MCU, would he not have that much of a problem with him? Since this Tony Stark (MCU) actually does make the effort to be more accountable for actions.

[@roblestito93]

@@Patthewwonis i dont think he did cuz he felt like it. He did it because he wanted to impress the fantastic four so that they can give him a job.

[@movieblocks9164]

@@roblestito93 well so does the comic tony. By then he wasn't as shitty of a person in the comics as well. The dynamic could still work, but that was just me bringing up an example of how they differed.

[@saadmaansaakib2567]

The Tobey Maguire Spiderman is the best . Spiderman 2 is one of the best superhero movie of all time .

[@sanitorz232]

I want Vaush to geek out on the practical effects of the thing

[@raunetteelkins8698]

I haven't watching most of these movies because I don't remember stuff from earlier movies. I spotted the ties in a couple sequels and just stopped. It pisses me off.

[@DanielBakerOfCalifornia]

Saw this on stream, by far the least obnoxious conveyance of this argument on the platform

[@SelassieEye]

"I hate when comic book characters are too strong at the end of the movie" yeah catharsis sucks

[@3331Alex]

For the most part I stopped watching mcu movies because their plots got too interconnected and there has been so many bad ones lately that tie into the MCU like captain Marvel, the new venom film, and the 1st reboot of spiderman (and from what I read the latest spiderman movie too).

[@thatguy779]

I guess the only thing I have to say is I still don’t feel much of anything either way (aside from drooling over the animation/art direction) for ‘Into the Spiderverse’

[@thecriticalone1783]

I like the solo spiderman movies. The two main complaints I heard about the newest spiderman is 1: Peter Parker is smart enough to make his own suit. And 2: he got hit waaay to often. Both of which gets addressed. I think spiderman is one of the best done characters in the mcu

[@edmaldonado8207]

Vaush should at least watch the first two episodes of Daredevil. Those two episodes are a fucking masterpiece.

[@nohbuddy1]

I for once wish people would talk about movies and TV that aren't fucking Super Heroes or Star Wars

[@leomarvindiaz6733]

This is why i Left the Left.

[@SA-mo3hq]

Voosh don't like the same movies I do, so now I'm an ancap.

[@comradecam9530]

With the exception of the botched take on a new origin story (I don't know why they just didn't make it a sequel), I love the Andrew Garfield incantation of Spiderman. It best reflected the comics I grew up reading in the 90s with his persona as Spiderman, and the darker tone. As to Peter Parker himself it was like they'd taken inspiration from the older, less geeky Parker once he'd finished high school. Although arguably you could say they bungled that because he only became less of a geek/nerd after being Spidey for a few years. Had no issues myself though, he was still a socially awkward nerd.

[@bludhuuntr4946]

Toby Spider-Mans individuality and independence was why he will aways be better. His realistic character development of peter/Spiderman. Especially Spiderman 2

[@daryno9047]

Agreed, I like Tom Holland Spiderman but I think it was a mistake to tie him to Ironman as much as the MCU did, it feels like he’s living in Ironman shadow now and not being his own hero. What made Spiderman was compelling in the first place was because he was just an average person who was trying to do the right thing even when it came at a personal cost to him. He wasn’t a billionaire or a hero working for the government like Captain, he had bills to worry about and maintain a job along with being a hero.

[@will_from_pa]

I think Vaush is wrong about a minor thing on the practical effects of lotr. If your face was where the camera was, you’d actually still be able to tell that one of the people was farther away because of our depth perception thanks to having two lenses. It works in film because the camera has only one lens and take in one perspective, so depth perception doesn’t really exist

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

Vaush needs to watch daredevil. What makes him great for a TV show is that his powers are kinda invisible. It's just cool martial arts.

[@darryljack6612]

THANK YOU!

[@AndaraBledin]

The Hobbit was 2 movies worth of script that was forced to be 3 movies with zero time for any rewrites or giving the people working on it any time to do almost any reshoots or the like.

[@ZHike360]

Daredevil TV series is amazing! You have to watch it!!!

[@AJ69238]

Fuck, that's it, I now have VDS

[@hurmur9528]

That is exactly my thoughts regarding Spiderman. And nearly everyone over 15 agree I would think.

[@bullymaguire1087]

*dances down the street