Why I Adopted (Then REJECTED) Calvinism | Leighton Flowers |

Dr. Leighton Flowers talks to ‪@RTHenry83‬ about his story of adopting and eventually rejecting Calvinism.
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#LeightonFlowers #Calvinism #Theology

[@Shelbi.Budish]

Hello Dr. Flowers. I just want to thank you for all you do. There are so few resources for people who have been harmed by Calvinist teachings. I've had my childlike faith and my understanding of God injured, and been treated poorly for just trying to understand. Please don't stop fighting this fight.

[@Doogiecdog]

You are so kind and generous towards those who are so cruel and judgmental towards you, Dr. Flowers.

[@gene4231]

Thank you Dr. Flowers for your honesty. You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

[@soteriology400]

Honesty? He never was a Calvinist. Those who knew him stated he was never a Calvinist.

[@John3.36]

In college I read, "What love is this" by Dave Hunt. That inoculated me from Calvinism.

[@Lin-gv3fi]

Incredible book!

[@kevinmoore3033]

Love Dave Hunt!!

[@emf49]

Reading it now!

[@heatherwoods5703]

SAME! And then I read "Debating Calvinism" by Dave Hunt and James White, and I was done. And fairly ruined with White. I found him rude and abrasive in the book. So I can't tolerate him, even if he is a brother in Christ. I've heard great sermons by MacArthur on unrelated subjects, so I can appreciate his other content. Not so with James White. 😬🤔

[@Lin-gv3fi]

@@heatherwoods5703I agree. White is incredibly offensive to the body 😞

[@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi]

Leighton, Im glad that you made it out of that false teaching. Thank you for tirelessly defending the Faith in this particular area of error. Ie: Calvinism

[@ryleighloughty3307]

Calvinism teaches that only God can accept or reject a person. How is that an error?

[@andrewmorse2181]

@@ryleighloughty3307 phrase this differently and people might engage you. This is like saying "Baptists teach that salvation is only in Christ, how is that an error?" Your framing is way off.

[@ryleighloughty3307]

@@andrewmorse2181 Is it accurate to say that when you try to control a person's speech, you are trying to control the person? I welcome you to point out where my comment is incorrect.

[@andrewmorse2181]

@@ryleighloughty3307 No that's not accurate. Your phrasing is unclear. What do you mean by accept or reject? Are you taking about salvation, service, behavior, God's acceptance or rejection of motives, condition of the heart, etc? Are you talking about God being the only one who sets the requirements for salvation? Your comment also really had no connection to the original comment, which was very general. You brought in acceptance and rejection of a person, insinuating that only Calvinism teaches something that in fact all of Christianity may actually affirm as well. Hence my comment about framing, it has nothing to do with controlling speech.

[@ryleighloughty3307]

@@andrewmorse2181 This is KZbin. Unfortunately, it's not an effective vehicle for a detailed discussion. My point is that Calvinism speaks to the truth that sinful people cannot contribute one iota to their own salvation. Our salvation is 100% in the hands of the Lord God. And that before creation, everything that would happen regarding human beings was predetermined by God.

[@colmortimer1066]

I never got very deep at all in Calvinism. I knew most the basic bible stories, really turned to Christ in a born again moment and my first thought was I should read the bible, and I started with the New Testament as that seems the core of the beliefs, then shortly after I started I found a good Presbyterian channel on youtube, and like Dr. Flowers, I liked how in depth it was, but I was reading the New Testament and things were not lining up, then of course, after the New Testament I read the Old, then the New again, and am in 1st chronicles again. I think what saved me is I first started looking into the scripture myself and then looking into Church ideas, it was really important to me to find out what I think myself as I read, and make sure people and churches are supporting those views. And I think a lot of the bible, old and new testaments do not support Calvinism. For example God chose Israel so surely they were always pure and perfect, and never once strayed, never worshiped other gods or anything. Unless Calvinism is false and the Israelites often rebelled by making the wrong choices. God either made the wrong choice or gave people the free will to reject Him.

[@philipatoz]

When I first encountered Calvinism and heard some of the theological reasoning behind it, it deeply disturbed my very soul. It just contradicted what I knew of God's character. And so, THAT is when I went on a serious quest to get to the truth of the matter and learned of the distorted reasoning and selective theology being practiced. And once I saw it, I couldn't UNSEE it! I also realized that many people in Reformed churches are clueless as to the beliefs and teachings behind it. And this is because it's often not talked about clearly, likely, because leaders in these churches well know it could spur many to leave their church.

[@asliketheson]

@@philipatoz um can you say where does it contradict god’s character? Which distorted reasoning or selective theology ?

[@canadiankewldude]

God Bless Dr Flowers, for all you share.

[@RhenishHelm]

Wow. What you said at the beginning about John MacArthur and R.C. Sproul - that you were attracted to their exegetical and intellectual approach to Scripture, and your transition into Calvinism was almost an incidental by-product of following their good example - is exactly the same that happened to me. I was Eastern Orthodox, studying Theology in order to prepare for a seminary education, when I began having doubts about various claimed doctrines. I, too, discovered MacArthur and Sproul, listened to them intently, and ultimately left the EO church in favour of what I considered a biblically-based Christianity. I joined a small Presbyterian church and sought to learn all that I could about Reformed theology. Yet, there were frequently Christians - both online and in-person - who rejected Calvinism and had very clear, confident, and biblical explanations for the things about Calvinism with which I long struggled. Through your work and others', I am now in the situations where I am a member of a Presbyterian church, but confidently hold a non-Calvinistic view on soteriology (and non-pedobaptist view, but that's another issue). This has put me in a touchy situation with my pastor, who was previously mentoring me for a future leadership role in our denomination.

[@randomname2366]

Soon after I came to faith I found William Lane Craig and I studied apologetics daily. I learned what naturalistic determinism was and all the issues it brings up for reasoning and morality and so on. Once I started studying theology more and I ran into Augustinian thoughts like Calvanism I was already innoculated against it. "Oh, that's just Christian determinism. That can't be right because of *insert list of all the issues all other determinism brings up*" I never fell for it because I was already helping atheists friends leave atheism over the issues of determinism.

[@woodandwheelz]

What I really want to thank Dr. Flowers for is that for the longest time, I could not explain what I believed. I'm not a Calvinist and I'm not Arminian. I'm somewhere in the middle. Calvinists would call me Arminian and Arminians would call me Calvinist because I would disagree with both. And I'm like, NO, I'm neither. I had no word for it and I could never find the words to describe what I believed. Then I found Soteriology 101 and all my answers where there. No I know how to describe to others what I believe. What I think on the topics. Explain my view better. I'm not a dumb guy, but I have difficulty at time expressing my feelings and thoughts. I have Asperger's. Thank you, Dr. Flowers and God bless.

[@CynVee]

You are not alone. I too struggled with putting an explanation as to my beliefs after studying Scripture. I wasn't a Calvinist, but neither was I an Arminian. I was somewhere in the middle. Dr. Flowers helped me too not only put words to my beliefs but also firm up some doctrine that had me scratching my head. I didn't feel alone any more. There were many others in the church who believed what I did and Dr. Flowers gave us the opportunity to talk with and strengthen one another. Don't let anyone cause you to believe you are less than just bc of your AS. You have God given skills other lack. God bless you brother 🙏🙏🙏✝️✝️✝️

[@wolfwind9658]

When I first met people who thought God was evil and salvation was impossible I wondered where they would get such ideas about Christianity. Then I found out about Reformed theology and I can't say I can blame those people now, they are just believing what they have been told.

[@Grounded_InThe_Gospel1]

Which ultimately means you CAN blame them ... Because they chose to believe what they were told without testing everything with scripture. Instead they allowed what they were told, to shape what they believed.... Even after attempts to correct a deceive Calvinist, many choose to harden themselves despite now having the truth...

[@andrewtsousis3130]

That’s a great summary of Calvinists, Ie people who say God is evil, God doesn’t love everybody, and Salvation is impossible unless God has elected you to be saved.

[@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi]

​@@Grounded_InThe_Gospel1 I think he meant that you can't blame unbelievers having that skewed understanding of God's Nature.

[@johndibert5509]

@@andrewtsousis3130Calvinist don’t believe God is evil, where do you get that

[@andrewtsousis3130]

@@johndibert5509 a determinist Calvinist will say that God ordained evil for his glory. Even John MacArthur preaches this. They reconcile in their head that God created evil (he must have in order to be ultimately sovereign) but somehow is not evil? If anyone is a determinist, they have to believe this. It is one of the major contradictions in Gods character that a Calvinist must reconcile. Many just claim it as “mystery” and are happy to swallow it in order to maintain Gods Sovereignty, despite it being totally unbiblical and contrary to Gods character.

[@brianel3006]

When I read the early Christian writings, 100-325 AD, is when I realized calvinism was never a Christian concept.

[@mlauntube]

Who all did you read? I'm looking for more sources (not about Calvinism but on all of their teachings and traditions).

[@andreab2]

@brianel3006 I'd love to hear some of your recommendations as well, and think that's a great point.

[@asliketheson]

@@brianel3006 which particular early writings ?

[@brianel3006]

@@mlauntube Ante-Nicene Father's, Volume 1. There's a total of 10 volumes. I recommend getting the pdf so you can search for particular topics in the search bar.

[@brianel3006]

@@andreab2 Ante-Nicene Father's, Volume 1. There are 10 volumes total. Best to have the pdf version to search for key words.

[@JohnQPublic11]

Calvinism; the anti-Gospel.

[@ryleighloughty3307]

How is it 'anti-Gospel' to teach the Biblical truth that only God can choose whom he accepts or rejects?

[@JohnQPublic11]

@@ryleighloughty3307 --- Because that’s not the Gospel; Reformed Theology doctrine is the sovereign Calvinist potter God hates, whimsically chooses, discriminates and mercilessly and unjustly predestines, prior to Creation; the Gospel is [1] that GOD loves everybody equally on the day they are born, [2] that HE does not desire, will or wish for any to be lost, so [3] HE makes provision for everybody to be Saved if they will just respond positively to the Calling Ministry of the Holy Spirit, repent, believe, have Faith and confess with their mouth.

[@ryleighloughty3307]

@@JohnQPublic11 The Bible teaches that before creation, God chose whom he would save and whom he would reject. In our realm, the earthly and temporal, God gives us free will so that we can make our own choices and be held accountable to them. The notion that sinful humans can contribute one iota to their salvation is neither biblical nor logical.

[@JohnQPublic11]

@@ryleighloughty3307 --- lol! [1] You are contradicting yourself, and [2] thanks for proving you haven't read the Bible, you don't understand anything in the Bible and that the sovereign Calvinist potter God is an evil monster just like I said he is.

[@ryleighloughty3307]

@@JohnQPublic11 Have a nice day.

[@kenbeach5021]

It's interesting how the journey out of Calvinism starts. Whilst I had always had some reservations about it, it was Team Pyro who set the ball rolling. Less Phil Johnson than his two sidekicks who I came to see as opinionated and in some ways just plain nasty. An attitude I realised I was tending to adopt as well. That led me to question the theology undergirding this. I took off the Calvinist glasses and read the NT more carefully which is ultimately what counts. I also saw the internal contradictions of this ~ism. I got out of Calvinism fairly quickly, but it has taken very much longer to get the Calvinism out of me, and to return to a kind God.

[@AardvarkBuster]

Such a familiar story 😊

[@srivera6111]

But do you think calvinism is sneaky & subtle? Here in west Michigan it is

[@diymerlehowtoeatanelephant3714]

I was raised in Holland, Michigan and I know what are saying. I went to CRC k-12 schools, Calvin college and did not know anything different. I have been out of Calvinist churches for over 30 years. I’m 77 old today. I went from 5 point to 4 point to 3 point to 0 point. It’s taken until the last 6 months of listening to Leighton to understand Romans 8-9 . I knew the god of Calvinism was not the God of scripture but could not explain Romans 8-9. I disliked reading Romans for that reason. I have learned so much from Soteriology 101. I truly believe Calvinism, as practiced in west michigan is a cult. People are afraid to criticize Calvinism because your family and friends will think you have abandoned God.

[@mikelyons2831]

"Now the Serpent was more subtle cunning than any other beast of the field..." I believe some Calvinist Pastors are deceived, duped or under-discipled. And some of the all-in, devoted & more dedicated to Calvin's Institutes over scripture make me wonder. The fact that so many will have you focus on Romans mid-9 & won't continue to Paul's conclusions in 9:30-10:4 is very disturbing. Then they don't bother continuing with the letter/Epistle to 10:8-13 where we are told HOW TO BE SAVED & ALL CAN BE SAVED... makes you wonder what spirit is leading them into all truth (per John 16 & why the Holy Spirit was sent)?

[@cruzaderawaken9600]

5 pointed Calvinist here, I just wanted to tell Leighton Flowers a Happy Birthday

[@granthollandvideos]

Unfortunately he failes the most basic scriptures. He was only a young man of 25 and had only been a Christina’s for two years when he first wrote the institutes. We must not despise youth or see a young believer as not able to work for Jesus. But at least he may have been able to help a pastor or evangelist. Basically the institutes, as he himself says rely on Augustine. He simply regurgitates him and he is on every page. Calvin admits that in describing his belief he would be lost without Augustine. “ not the bible “ but Augustine . I think that whole situation would do far better being psycho analysed

[@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi]

What gave you the impression he was a believer?

[@granthollandvideos]

@@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi It’s been a while since I studied that. I’m open to correction but it seems he never did relate his decision to follow Jesus or a conversation experience. I’m not sure if it became too late in that he had already thrown away many of the graces provided or , the possibility to follow Jesus or respond to the gospel before his Augustinian “ awakening “ ruled his thought. In that case most all roads to confess or follow or respond or pray with a friend may have been cut off already in favour of this forced awakening like pantheism religions.

[@jakeofalltradesmusic]

I appreciate your story. I often say that Calvinists who know better and still preach Calvinism I couldn’t consider Christian… and frankly it’s because I fall into the category of “Arminians” that are too stupid to engage intellectually on a really deep level. I’ve tried getting really deep into the theology and philosophy, and not really related, laws and policy, because I was getting tired of being told what the doctrines or laws or whatever say rather than reading to see what they actually say… then I find myself re-reading the opening paragraph a dozen times realizing I didn’t comprehend anything I just read and the vocabulary must’ve been invented by people who had intelligence rivaled only by God Himself… I end up giving up, recognizing I’m too much of an idiot to truly learn.

[@Grounded_InThe_Gospel1]

I agree, to know how Calvinism clearly contradicts scripture, then to continue preaching it or even holding to it in general...can't see how they are saved...same with Catholicism, once someone is saved and come to the knowledge of the truth...how can they remain in deception/RCC?? With the Spirit of TRUTH dwelling in them.

[@clellaadams]

God instructs the meek, not the self depreciating. ❤😅

[@peterfox7663]

Understanding the philosophical foundations and rationales of law and social contact is critical for members of a self-governing society. Unfortunately, most don't understand why they believe what they do, with positions that are easily blown about because they are unmoored to any foundational convictions. The same goes for learning about the Bible and God - to borrow a phrase from CS Lewis, good theology must exist if only to counter bad theology. Churches should be making people strong in their faith to withstand the storms of popular culture and bad forms of Christianity

[@stevemills1481]

All very interesting. Can a Calvanist know for certain that he will go to Heaven after death in this life? How does he know if he has been predestined?

[@mynameis......23]

20:28

[@elenalele]

Could you do timestamps?

[@asliketheson]

Who are the elect in Jesus’s prayer ? What does this mean ?

[@ETBX1]

You were on the BaptistBoard? I was on there for years (and still check back occasionally). What was your name there? And what's the name of the person you were mentioning at the end? I used to duke it out with a Calvinist guy named Pastor Larry and a few others, like 20+ years ago. Then they closed that section, but eventually put it back.The CvsA debate was very frustrating in tthe end (and also "eternal security' vs "falling away"), because we're just tossing proof-texts at each other, and no one is convinced.

[@georgeespiritu-wl1zp]

Where is the before the foundation of the earth people predistinated in 1Pet 2:10

[@dpcrn]

God has worked the things that you went through, the stages of your development, even the splitting of your church together for the good of those who love God. I’m sure you look back and wish it hadn’t happened, but it has led to where you are and what you were doing. That has been a huge blessing to the church. I am interested in how you worded one thing in here. It sounds like you still have some distain for Pentecostals. Is that true?

[@allentram4374]

Sounds like you’re all in on the God-puppet view. How utterly depressing. Life is truly meaningless in that world. You need not bother to get out of bed tomorrow with that view, God will do it all for you. Just relax

[@dpcrn]

@@allentram4374 I am confused. Neither of the two men in the video subscribe to that and neither do I. Was this comment supposed to be in response to my comment?

[@allentram4374]

@@dpcrn correct, responding to your comment, but after rereading I see I read it incorrectly and I owe you an apology. I completely agree God uses things/events for the good of those who love him (this is truth, right out of His word). He even uses horrible things such as murders, rapes, holocausts, etc...the key point is He does NOT cause or orchestrate these things to happen ("puppeteering"), but he can use them after the fact for good. He gives EVERYONE free will (anti-Calvine belief) to choose good or evil but in his infinite wisdom and sovereignty can still weave things together for good. Of course that doesn't mean these things are in themselves good...they are not, they are evil, from satan. I am probably preaching to the choir on this and again, I fall on my sword and apologize. I was a little raw and emotional after watching what looks very clearly to have been the deep state / bad government elements attempting to murder the former (and likely future) president. There is no other plausible explanation for what transpired. May God bless America.

[@dpcrn]

@@allentram4374 No problem, we've all been there. None of us walk or water or have the nail prints in our hands. Have a great evening!

[@allentram4374]

@@dpcrn thanks for your graciousness sir...blessings to you

[@OneHighwayWalker]

It's interesting to hear from your testimony that being a Calvinist brought forth pride and arrogance against those whom you believed to be less-informed than yourself. I see this attitude with other Calvinists. If one is secure in what they believe, they should be able to discuss their position with love and patience toward others they believe to be "uneducated." It isn't our job to convince anyone of anything, but instead to lead them to the truth, and let the Holy Spirit do his job of conviction. All that to say that Calvinism appears to bring forth some very bad fruit which then brings into question their whole belief system. As I'm listening to the video, I keep thinking of the Scripture, "...not many wise...". We need to be careful to keep our childlike faith, trusting the Lord for salvation, and doing our part by walking in obedience as He commanded.

[@Norrin777Radd]

In view of the existence of such Assembly of God ministers as Craig Keener and the late Gordon Fee, I wish you hadn't used the term "Pentecostals" so dismissively.

[@lewisbutler5227]

If Calvinism is true, I find it strange that God would sovereignly ordain the vast majority of Christians not to believe it. Hmm

[@christophertaylor9100]

Some day you will learn the truth.

[@patsyhandcock5862]

This surprises me as I believe your father was a pastor. Did he not present the truth to you or try to convince you that your views were not aligned with the Word?

[@jefferypassagecpa9125]

Check out his other videos where he talks about this. His way out of Calvinism was hard on his family as well. But he had the courage to do what is right.

[@markever234]

I can understand that maybe moderate Calvinist are truly seeking scriptural truth. High/Hyper Calvinists on the other hand... I view them as theologically and philosophically dishonest. I cant wrap my head around the fact that they consistently ignore truth and make concessions for their belief system and do so in benign way. I honestly think they have malicious intent. Macarthur even admitted that he was a closet Calvinist for years. He admitted to slowly bringing in Calvinism a little bit at a time as to not upset his church.

[@NY1054Cool]

That’s false . While at seminary MacArthur was a four point Calvinistic Dispensationalist and later on in the 1980’s became a full five point Calvinist. Grace to you prior to MacArthur being pastor was Calvinistic Dispensational and Premillennial. When he was selected as pastor he had to agree with the doctrinal statement of the church .

[@NY1054Cool]

@@morrij01 obviously you are not familiar with his church . It’s always been Calvinistic Dispensational and Premillennial since its founding . In seminary MacArthur studied under the Dispensationalist Dr. Charles Feinberg a four point Calvinistic Dispensationalist. You are not familiar with Talbot either . In its founding it was Calvinistic Dispensational and Premillennial in its theology as were a vast majority of dispensational seminaries . In case you don’t know this but almost all of the early American Dispensationalist were Calvinistic in their soteriology . Their views were moderate Calvinism. Most of them were four point Calvinist such as Lewis Sperry Chafer , WH Griffith Thomas , John Walvoord , Charles Ryrie , Charles Feinberg and others while a few were moderate five point Calvinist such as Donald Barnhouse. In case you don’t know this but I’m part of the traditional Dispensational movement . I am familiar with every Dispensational Bible college , Bible institute and seminary in the United States .

[@NY1054Cool]

@@morrij01 guess you like to misrepresent or distort what he said . Typical provisionist. You guys like to make up stuff . John MacArthur has not given an indepth biography of himself on that as you claimed . The video of Piper and MacArthur is not a biography either . What we do know is at Talbot seminary he definitely was taught four point Calvinism and Dispensationalism while he was a student and studied under Charles Feinberg if you know who he was

[@NY1054Cool]

@@morrij01 you appealed to claimed statements that are not indepth . Talbot is where he was taught Calvinistic soteriology . Thats the point of issue . When he completed seminary he at first a four point Calvinist and than in the 1980’s he later embraced limited atonement thus becoming a five point Calvinist. Thats the change he made from seminary to the 1980’s as a pastor . His church held to four point Calvinism prior to five point Calvinism . That’s the extent of the change at hjs church on soteriology. I pointed directly to Dr. Charles Feinberg as to where MacArthur was taught Calvinism. You never addressed that . That was his mentor at seminary over at Talbot . Its founder Louis Talbot was a Calvinistic Dispensationalist

[@Cletus_the_Elder]

I am not sure if you are aware of this, but you come across frustrated, to the point of anger, in your debates at certain arguments. As if you were lashing out. I wonder if it is because of the process you went through to arrive at your position and the resurfacing of those early realizations that you were taught Calvin's dogma and not the truth, and recollection of your disillusionment at those who were your leaders. I believe I am in your camp. I feel Calvinists adhere too strongly to a theologian's writings. He was an admirable man and, in many ways, a solid model for theologians who would follow, but he was just a man interpreting, to the best of his ability, Scripture. We now have denominations who stand upon his work as if it was the Word itself.

[@emf49]

Yes, that’s the part I have difficulty with. Who are we actually following; Calvin, Augustine, Luther or Jesus?

[@andrewmorse2181]

Yup. Doctrinal drift.

[@andrewmorse2181]

I'm sure it also comes from explaining very clearly what he believes, and very clearly answering a question, then immediately being told by his opponent that he didn't answer the question, or communicate what His belief is, simply because he didn't answer it they way they wanted him to, expected him to, or didn't give the Calvinistic interpretation, which is their minds is the only way to interpret said passage, and anyone who sees things differently is "worshipping free Will" or "refusing truth". This is course is ridiculous under the vast Calvinistic umbrella of exhaustive divine determinism.

[@ENDofREGULATION30]

I disagree! For example... As a black man, my people get very animated when we talk. I get asked, "why are you mad?" When I just get excited and really feel passionate about what I'm saying. I think you are being fair when you say Leighton "appears" angry... that us fair. But in actuality, his passion for the topic is on display. I'd rather listen to a passionate person than the boring debater... imo

[@diymerlehowtoeatanelephant3714]

John Calvin was not an admirable man. He practiced Calvin jihad. He participated in over the torture and execution of over 30 people. This is not even debatable. Even Calvin College, a namesake of Calvinist, admits this.

[@mlauntube]

Two men spend all their free time contemplating and arguing theology: one is right and has sound theology, and the other is mistaken and has false theology. Here is a question: which one mows the lawn? Which one does the dishes? Which one builds a house? The answer is “neither”. You don’t get the right to be called a child of God but having the right doctrine. You get the right to be called a child of God by accepting Jesus as your King. If you have accepted Jesus as your King, time to get busy working on His Kingdom; find your calling and do some work.

[@johnknight3529]

As a creature from the swamp ; ) of the unconcerned with what this or that expert makes/made of the Book (other than "the languages" experts at times), I am again struck by the apparent disinterest among the concerned with what this or that expert makes/made of the Book, in reminding people that there is an actual God available to Help people understand what that God "wrote" in His Communication to us creatures. And I wonder; Why? "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Is that not the expert of experts knocking for very good reasons, in the minds of the concerned with what this or that expert makes/made of the Book?, one wonders . . and if not, why not?

[@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi]

It's his personal testimony😅

[@johnknight3529]

@@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi - Well, this swamp creature recommends that should he ever again find himself "choking" on a very hard doctrinal pill to swallow, that he avail himself of the omni-available Help of the Creator God (who really seems to like helping us critters, from what I've experienced anyway, swampy worm of no account or wisdom of my own that I surely am ; )

[@patrickkircher145]

The irony is that your logic is the complete opposite of truth, but only time will show you thay. How lucky you are.

[@wannamonslo9626]

It looks to me to be a trap of lofty scripture and doctrine understanding, where maintaining a certain attitude becomes a spiritual hoop that we jump through. If I jump through hoops for God, I'm really getting God to jump through hoops for me.

[@frankpopolano6004]

Leighton said it about 10 different ways, 'He was a Calvinist because he felt very smart and wanted to belong to the smart group' People with high IQs find it very hard to accept the mystery of the dynamic of the sovereignty of God. Smart people are not comfortable with this mystery because while God is smarter than they are, He's only a little smarter than they are. Before this mystery we either become like children, or we become smart-ass and brutal 5 point Calvinists. I want to tell my James White story but don't have the time!

[@stevemills1481]

Wonder what the IQ of the local fishermen/taxmen etc was in the old days.

[@BM5K007]

Oh how wrong the "smart guys" can be

[@MINDWARDEN]

Why don’t Calvinists ever talk about Molinism?

[@AlanaL3]

Because that would reveal that there area several views vs. 2. They like false dichotomies. :)

[@trebmaster]

They fear the wrath of William Lane Craig!

[@trebmaster]

@@AlanaL3 good point.

[@MINDWARDEN]

@@AlanaL3 I know, it’s something they regularly need to be reminded of. Not that I think they’re all forgetting.

[@benjaminwhitley1986]

I grew up very Calvinist. My heroes were Sproul, MacArthur, Piper. I’ve read Calvin’s institutes, Luther’s Bondage of the Will, and Augustine’s writings, not to mention interpreting Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 faithfully like a good Calvinist. I am now a Christian Universalist. I believe the atonement is for all. I believe God’s will is to save all people, eventually. I believe Arminians are right that God wants to save all people and I believe with Calvinists that God is sovereign (even over man’s free will). I find good in both camps. I would rather,though, say God loves all people than to diminish people’s hope in a good God… Calvin’s God in the line of Augustine seems to me to be despotic and partial. Arminias’ God, in the line with many more early church fathers, I find to be more faithful to the scope of God’s love. I just find universalists’ God to be both sovereign and willing to save all. 😊

[@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi]

A couple things Part Arminianism is that one can be saved - then lost. Aren't you saying then, that they >will be< saved again (Then possibly lost, saved, lost, rinse/repeat)? The theology of the Yoyo. I'm being absurd I know😅 But theological ideas have logical consequences. I just don't think you've thought this through. I noticed that you said, "I would rather....say God loves all people than to diminish peoples hope in a good God." "I would rather.." is the bit that got my attention. It sounds like you're doing theology according to what makes you feel good. Being led by emotions. And also "..than to diminish people hope in a good God." As if there are any Christians, either Calvinist, Arminian or otherwise, that believe God is not good? My friend, God's reputation is His business. Whatever Scripture says, it says, in spite of how God's plan of Salvation might "look" to some misinformed person. If Calvinism were true, (its not), then whatever God is, is good. Why? For one, and ONLY one reason. Because Scripture says He is. Add to that the millions of broken lives transformed, who testify to the Goodness of God. You've rejected Calvinism, which is good, but you've done so for the wrong reason. The reason of emotion. Now don't get me wrong, emotionally, my knee jerk reaction is that Calvinism is a hideously deformed theology. But this is key. Calvinism is false because it isn't supported in Scripture! Not that I just don't like it emotionally. "Thus sayeth the Lord" the written Word, which is what God wants us to understand, is our bedrock. However our understanding deepens in knowledge and depth of insight, our Soteriology is based upon Scripture.... Not cobbling together parts of theology other men have put together. You've put the pieces of very different puzzles together in order to put together a picture that pleases YOU. There's more I could say But let me demonstrate, from scripture how universal salvation is not possible - from scripture. This is from the story (not a parable) of the "Rich man and Lazarus" Christ begins; Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: A "certain man" A real person These events actually happened. Luke 16:20 And there was a >certain beggar< named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, Again this is history, not a parable. We all know the story, so i won't quote the while thing, but I encourage you to go back and study it. Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf >fixed

[@benjaminwhitley1986]

Thank you for taking time to share. I said what I said because it would take too long to write out my spiritual biography with chapter and verses accompanying every sentence. lol The story of Lazarus and the rich man is taken by most scholars to be just that (a story). However, even if it was a very real historical account, it in no way diminishes many varied scriptures that state not only does God want to save all because he does (each one bearing the image and likeness of God according to Genesis) but he is also mighty to save all those he has given to the son (I.e. all things). You say along with Paul that if one says Jesus is Lord, they will be saved. Very good. We are assured in Philippians that every knee will bow, in heaven, on earth, and UNDER the earth (all the dead and its inhabitants) and will confess that Jesus is Lord. This Greek word for confess is always used throughout scripture both (OT/NT) as praise both joyful and willing. It’s also an echo of Isaiah 45:23 where God says “unto me every knee will bow, and every tongue will SWEAR ALLEGIANCE.” Again, a future, universal allegiance and submission. This is my hope based on sacred scripture (both OT and NT). 😊

[@clellaadams]

If God decreed some people to go to hell, why did he prepare it for the devil? Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

[@marce.goodnews]

Became Catholic thanks to this channel. Now I go to Society St Pius X, to the Traditional Latin Mass.

[@jayrodriguez84]

Are the words "adoption as sons" from Ephesians 1:5 specifying justification or glorification? ‭Ephesians 1:5 NKJV‬ [5] having predestined us to👉 adoption as sons👈 by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

[@colmortimer1066]

The way I heard it best from Dr. Flowers, and I hope I get this right, but If you make the choice to believe and follow Christ, then you are predestined to be adopted. Christ does not so much choose us first, as much as we make that first choice to turn to Him. Those that make that choice are predestined, as all believers are, to be saved. All believers are predestined to heaven but not predestined to follow God. He also used the analogy of someone saying everyone who makes it into a tower is saved, those who do not make it are not saved. God does not determine if you get into that tower, but those that make it into it are saved. I think you still have to study, try to be good, and faithful, but God is not pushing people out, I think He wants to save everyone, but many love to sin more, that is your choice to make.

[@virginiahernandez1329]

God desires ALL men to repent an be saved. why would God want people to go to HELL.

[@jayrodriguez84]

@colmortimer1066 So, his answer would be glorification. If you agree with him, prove that the adoption as sons in the verse is specifying glorification with predestination STARTING AFTER justification.

[@TheLastSinner]

When does justification start? I'd say Judgement Day. "Everyone who has not believed in the only Son of God stands condemned already." Were we not already condemned before we were elected? Would the same statement not work likewise, that those "In Him", stand justified already? And after Judgement Day, we will be eternally glorified. Note: I'm not arguing, I swear, I am trying to answer a question

[@jayrodriguez84]

@@TheLastSinner ‭Romans 5:1 NKJV‬ [1] Therefore, 👉having been justified by faith,👈 we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

[@juliuscox94]

Yes, Calvinism is heresy

[@user-hv2gq4wv8b]

Calvinism is a cult

[@virginiahernandez1329]

not acult just bad doctrine

[@Grounded_InThe_Gospel1]

I agree, sadly.

[@delivefreenana]

@@virginiahernandez1329cults adhere to bad doctrine.

[@ryleighloughty3307]

Please explain what you mean by 'cult'.

[@ryleighloughty3307]

@@virginiahernandez1329 Actually, it is sound doctrine, both biblically and logically.

[@Dizerner]

LFW is not "a little tweak" to Calvinism.

[@kevinevans5921]

Enjoy the channel Layton, but as a classical Pentecostal, primarily Arminian it seemed like you to took kind of a negative shot at those who are in this category (Pentecostal/Charismatic). A group who represents an increasingly large segment of the body of Christ. Maybe you should research a little what we believe as well, instead of what others have told you.

[@Crowbrother7]

@@kevinevans5921 As a long time Pentecostal who, for a long time, was not comfortable with and in Pentecostalism, and who has rejected what I was taught to believe as truth, from the various camps with in Pentecostalism such as Word of Faith/Name it and Claim it, and such thoughts as “planting seeds” for financial gain and better health, a second Baptism, and other extreme non biblical practices, I have walked away! I began to really get into serious study and research on these topics and realized it was all just man made up junk theology, or ways for certain individuals and groups to obtain vast wealth at their congregations expense who has been convinced “God told me to buy an airplane” or a top of the line Mercedes-Benz! That’s NOT God!! Now there are Apostles and Prophets and suddenly God is doing a “new thing” and there is “new revelation.” No! I could go on, but the point is be a Berean and study and research what is being taught and preached to see if it is true! I am now so much happier and founded in my faith!!!

[@trebmaster]

I think it would have been better for him to make a distinction between Pentecostals proper and "charismatic" Pentecostals.

[@ryleighloughty3307]

Calvinism stands out for making both biblical and logical sense unlike anything else. I hope you will return to the gospel that teaches that only God can accept or reject people.

[@jettoth3]

My impression of anti-Calvinists is that they believe that the fall of mankind must not have corrupted the will of mankind to any serious extent.

[@harrylong575]

Hey, I'm not sure exactly where I fall in these discussions, but I am still in the free will camp (I have been looking into Calvinist theology recently). When it comes to whether or not the will is damaged by original sin, I think this: Free will is left intact. This does not mean that it is intrinsically good or evil; it is just the will, and we are "agents." However, because we have all fallen in Adam we are all in sin, being separated from God by lacking faith. Any goodness whatsoever exists in God alone. Now, God gives grace that we may find Him, reaching us through people who share the gospel and through the work of the Holy Spirit who testifies to our very hearts of sin, righteousness, and judgement. If we love God and hate sin (do not think that this must be some instantaneous work, but it can take years rather), we put our faith in Him knowing that Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. I see where the difficulty is here, as in "how can someone love God if they are totally depraved?" I think the solution lies somewhere in that the hearing of the Gospel is the grace God gives us in order that, a, our sin is revealed to us and, b, His righteousness is revealed to us. This grace "enables" us to put our faith in Him, because we would then know of our fallen nature. In this case, there is no presumption of a marred will, only that at revelation of our sin and God's righteousness, we have the opportunity to put our faith in Christ for forgiveness of sins and the gift of life; such faith, although it is indeed good, is not a good work. It is just faith. All the work, all that which justifies is done in Christ, as His righteousness is imputed to us upon belief (the real thing, not just intellectual assent). I probably missed something, or misunderstand something. But I hope this helps. God bless!

[@rustyvoiceinwilderness9580]

The opposit of Calvinism is "Free Moral Agency". That comes from the pit and promotes legalism.

[@krissyyoung9264]

How does it promote legalism?

[@bravebarnabas]

In this video, Leighton exposes the fact that he has no real understanding of what Calvinists mean by unconditional election.

[@UnfrozenCavemanLawyer-xq1qi]

Right, because understanding equals believing in Calvie-land

[@peterfox7663]

How so?

[@ryleighloughty3307]

He does not have a fundamental understanding of the body of Calvinist thought.