Why I am giving up on D&D

[@SSkorkowsky]

I burned out on D&D and the classic fantasy genre years ago. It was my primary game for many years, but I was simply done with it. I started playing other games. And while I'd played a few different RPGs before, they were always treated as side-games. Turning them into my primary game really opened my eyes. We started sampling different genres and play-styles. I returned to D&D when 5e released (a buddy talked me into it). After a year of that, I concluded 5e simply wasn't my jam. I won't knock anyone for liking it, but it simply wasn't what we enjoyed anymore. About then I discovered Call of Cthulhu and that was that. Traveller also filled my sci-fi needs. Free League - every book they release is the most beautiful RPG book ever made. They're wonderful. I've had a lot of fun with their YearZero Engine and Vaesen is pretty cool.

[@AJBernard]

Have you looked at PF2e? I know it's fantasy, but they're doing Starfinder 2e now using the same engine, and it looks pretty good. Maybe let us know what you think. =) Love your channel Seth!

[@ste1bro]

This was the experience for me and all my gaming friends back in the early 80s. D&D was seen as the gateway drug into RPGs, before Call of Cthulhu, Traveller, Marvel Super Heroes, Gamme World, Top Secret, etc caught our eye. We never went back to D&D. These days I almost see D&D as a seperate hobby altogether to the rest of the RPG industry. Free League, Powered by the Apocalypse, Delta Green, and countless others blow it out of the water. I'll always feel a fondness for D&D for getting me into a hobby I adore with a passion, but if I'm being honest, it's a terrible game (no lie, even back in 1982 magazines were talking about how out of date its mechanics were!). I wouldn't even put D&D in my top 50 RPGs. It baffles me how it's gained a stranglehold on the industry when there's literally hundreds of better games out there.

[@TopcatsLair]

I still love homebrew adventuring with 5E D&D, but the community aspect isn't being fostered by WOTC like it used to be. I too have latched onto Call of Cthulhu, even using elements of cosmic horror in my D&D as a result LOL Still getting a hang of the rules and character creation but once I do I'll be running CoC more often.

[@SSkorkowsky]

@@AJBernard Pathfinder (or Starfinder) doesn't interest me. I far prefer Skill-Based mechanics over Class/Level-Based mechanics. Traveller (MgT2) fills my sci-fi needs and is my second-favorite system after Call of Cthulhu 7e.

[@AgranakStudios]

Free League is on another level!!! The only way to fall in love with D&D is to play what you know. Personally for me, that is 1st and 2nd edition AD&D. That still gives me those awesome feelings of adventure. Cheers!

[@Eurodance_Groove]

Those editions, today, are banned by the gen z and the radicalchics: they are deemed to be machists, anti-femminist or racist books!!! As the inventor od D&D itself; banned from the Comicons due to politically correct issues arose inside the left wingers players of the game and coming from the gen z or the radicalchic comunist with the big money to spend?!?

[@aaronwyrd]

There are so many other great systems out there, but my issue is finding a group that wants to play something other than dnd. Some days I feel like I'm more a book collector than a ttrpg player

[@Ph-qc5ke]

Agreed

[@arthurviegas8207]

I feel that, bro

[@jayteepodcast]

I will take those books

[@Lunatyk5th]

I never got into DnD in the first place but I agree that there's so much more gaming out there than that, I hope you will continue to enjoy roleplaying as a whole still

[@pnptcn]

I mostly played D&D because that's what everyone else wanted to play. These days I spend time with Traveller, although lately I've been looking into some solo games from Blackoath and those are pretty neat. Ker Nethalas and Across A Thousand Dead Worlds are real standouts and I just got a copy of Ruthless Heavens Boundless Fate. They make a lot of old school hex crawls and skirmish games, good stuff.

[@orinmayer1276]

Welcome to the club, I left when they pushed out 3rd ed., currently I run Shadowdark, CoC, a mix of Traveller/Mothership. I had hoped that Free League when they created Alien and Blade Runner RPGs would of used the same system so the two could be combined to make a fuller range gritty space opera RPG, but oh well.

[@DaVeO52]

YES! The BEST multiple game publisher in business today BAR NONE. I have played Dragonbane, Alien, Mork Borg, Vaesen and own many more. Every game is a banger and I also am purging D&D from my future. I have two adventures to wrap them I'm bringing my group to Free League full time. One of my three groups I run have already switched over, we play Vaesen.

[@shallendor]

Monogamy isn't for TTRPG's! My favorite TTRPG's and Systems: 1-Cypher(generic), 2-Teenagers From Outer Space(anime), 3-Gamma World 4E(not based on D&D 4E)(post apocalyptic), 4-All Flesh Must be Eaten(zombie), 5-Battlelords of the 23rd Century(sci-fi), 6-Pathfinder 1E(fantasy), 7-5E(fantasy), 8-Palladium system(generic), 9-AD&D(fantasy), 10-Shadow of the Demon Lord(sci-fantasy/horror) and 11-Star Frontiers(sci-fi)

[@chrislundgren182]

I love other options as well. I am playing OSRIC,Swords & Wizardry,Dragonbane,Pendragon,Basic Fantasy RPG,ShadowDark

[@TheRebelGM56]

I ditched 5e fully about 6 months ago after drifting away for longer than that - this is because I discovered Free League and the wonderful games they produce - interesting to hear you say Vaesen topped Call of Cthulhu but can I also say..welcome to the club you have friends here.

[@spacerx]

Why switch? Just stop buying. Don't you have enough d&d material to keep you going indefinitely? I wonder sometimes if people are more interested in being customers and consumers of games rather than players. If you're tired of playing, that's fine, but I don't know wotcs behavior has to do with that.

[@rommdan2716]

The game has been ruined as long as Hasbro owns it, it's to part take to search new horizonts and have new experiences

[@squirekev]

I think you already answered your own question. I don't wonder anymore. Everyone wants the new shiny, solving one's problems. Right? heh. It's like the idea of home-brew is an antiquated concept these days. Realistically though, we have kind of dug a grave for it, with the insistence on standardization via core books becoming the norm.

[@Woodclaw]

I fell out of love with D&D a couple of years before the 4th edition hit the presses and I more or less stayed away from it until I tried to D&DNext first playtest packet. That reignited my interest and I liked 5e (in spite of some design decisions even from the core books). Right now, I'm more or less in that same spot from 20-ish years ago: D&D just didn't hit the spot anymore, especially since there are so many other fantasy games and I enjoy (One Ring, Dragonbane, WFRP, Forbidden Lands, Fabula Ultima, just to name a few). Right now, I look at my shelf and out of all those black spine books, the only ones I'm tempted to keep around and either adventures (Curse of Strahd above all) or settings (like Theros).

[@NemoOhd20]

I love Pirate Borg! I assume I would love all the other Borgs. Thanks for this video.

[@FR0STBL0D]

Oh ... and: Yeay! for Osprey Roleplaying. They really do have a wonderful range of games with some very interesting ones coming out the next months (Through the Hedgerow and The Terror Beneath). I also adore the games by Mark Galeotti (he's also an expert on international organised crime and Russian security politics). Gran Meccanismo is the one he's done for Osprey. So: I'm looking forward to watch you talking more about the Osprey Games.

[@liamcage7208]

I love Symbaroum as a campaign setting. I adapted the original to Pathfinder (the D&D 5e version wasn't out yet at the time). Its dark and gritty, lots of atmosphere. I don't need a map of the world, I prefer regional maps and set the whole campaign in and around the Davakor forest. My next campaign setting will be the Forgotten Lands. It is perfect for my sandbox.

[@hatchlingsgames]

Need to play some Free League games. Vaesan and Alien are top of the list.

[@AlbertoRodriguez-zb3iu]

I'm loving Vaesen, it's becoming my #1 to go game along with shadow dark.

[@alexwilson9881]

There are so many great systems out there -- looking forward to see what you find that clicks with you!

[@RVCBard]

This is very promising. I'm taking a break from roleplaying for now, but I want to try a lot of different things when I get back.

[@the-patient-987]

Welcome to the club! Now watching this video and thinking about brutal fantasy I couldn't help to notice the Darksun book there. I think Athas whispered something to ear, something like YZE.

[@ToesToJesus]

For me and my players, Tales of the Valiant works just fine, as does P2.5E. We just switched our Zobeck 5e game over to Tales of the Valiant and there really is no difference in game play. For CoC, I suggest Pulp Cthulhu! It is Indiana Jones meets CoC and really good.

[@danrimo826]

I left with the OGL fiasco and Best Thing I Ever Did. The games out there at the moment are wild and amazing.

[@squirekev]

For an FLGS, I do think the idea of D&D in the traditional books, pencil and dice sense are numbered. I won't miss the dominant influence in the hobby when they move to their electronic whatever master plan. They've overstayed their welcome already and flicking the lights on and off doesn't seem to be getting their attention. heh. Who cares: the ones who like D&D will just keep playing the editions they like and use the endless amounts of material already existing, or something new and giving other systems more opportunity to gain interest. We need more systems' purchasing support of larger player bases to work on providing support material, rather than just releasing and moving on to other core books. (Also, the fact that your shop has Dark Sun boxed sets just sitting on the shelf for sale, kind of blows me away. I wish your store was near me. Of course, that could be just your hard-core personal collection but I've seen your other shelves and it's a lot. Also, where's more of your cooking videos darn it? )

[@GMSMagazine]

OH... that is not my shop... that is my collection... :D

[@Vaerceagoth]

I have personally drifted away from D&D when Pathfinder 1 came out and have slowly been drifting away from the rigidity of D20 for a long time. My personal favorite, despite the requirement of custom dice, is the Genesys system for its narrative focus that’s baked into the system so deep it even affected the dice, hence the custom dice. But I will also admit that it’s not for everyone. The main thing when choosing a primary game/system is if you have fun with it.

[@lyracian]

I agree. Personally I now run PF2 games and am playing in a WFRP game. Backed DC20 which also looks to be a better D&D.

[@gedece]

I still have a 5e campaign, but as soon as I end it I'm ditching the game also. I have so many others to Gm that offer so many new possibilities. For example, I was reading the Coriolis manual and besides understanding the setting, I was picturing using it to tell the story of Eve Online creation from the heavily theological Amarr perspective.

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

Cool Free league has some good stuff Play what you love and love what you play Have a good game

[@Wraithing]

Main thing for me with D&D, it's become a pain in the arse since it became an IP (thus, constantly devouring and regurgitating itself) and stopped being interested in making anything new. It's like an old-man tribute band replaying all their greatest hits, but respraying their van in bright colours to attract younger groupies (eughh… yeah, that sounds gross, but it's definitely become a truism of the 21st century for a lot of corporate IP machines). System-wise I still like rolling d20s (among all the other randomisers!), but the more mechanical complexity D&D keeps bolting onto the simple core notion of rolling high against a target number (despite all the fake window dressing of increased player options) tends to kill realism and verisimilitude in settings, whilst corralling creative possibilities into singular, broken modes of play… and, recently, is driving a foolish escalation of DM effort for less satisfying results. It's almost like you're going to need to pay a weekly rental fee for an A.I. system to keep track of the thing… but… ahh, yes. I'm still playing D&D, but it's called Shadowdark. And after we finish that campaign, it could be called C&C, OSE, Nimble, or Knave - or could just be a Dr. Frankenstein patchwork of all the above. Until they show me something new that I need, I won't need them. But I will still need pencils and paper… and maybe that's why they don't really need me.

[@Arnsteel634]

I agree. Play other games out there. They are wonderful. But Dolmenwood is coming out soon as a OSE setting and it looks awesome

[@ericg7183]

I'm all in on Tales of the Valiant. Yeah it's 5e adjacent, but it's better than 5e mechanically for the most part, even the 2024 changes, and most importantly, it's not Wankers of the Coast. I'm not going to say I will never play D&D again, because I probably and hopefully will, but I will never give them another penny. To paraphrase the Mad King, "Let them burn themselves to the ground!" This is my introduction to your channel, and the camera only had a narrow shot of your bookcase, for obvious reasons. However, I didn't see anything on the edges from Palladium Books. I've spent as much time playing their games, starting with Robotech in the 80s, as I have the various editions of D&D. If you want a fantasy setting, they have it. They have a contemporary horror setting that was the Supernatural TV show, years before that was even thought of. there's Rifts, the futuristic post-apocalypse setting, with magic, high tech, and supernatural creatures. There's a superhero setting. And to date, they are the only source for a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles RPG, with a new book coming out soon, with new art by Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird, the guys that created the IP. They even have a zombie apocalypse setting. It's a crunchy system compared to some, but the combat plays out like an action film.

[@Dracoaurion]

WotC never did anything fantastic, they simply coasted on the IP, slowly degrading it every year. The reason it took this many decades is evidence of how great TSR era D&D was.

[@sumdude4281]

We moved to Shadow Dark, DCC and OSE.

[@AJBernard]

I've moved from D&D to Pathfinder 2e and I'm not going to look back. Now that the Dragon in the room is wounded, we're free to explore the rest of the dungeon that is TTRPGs, and it's a great time to be a gamer. I did play Vaesen for about six months, and my group came to the conclusion that we just didn't like the engine. I set up a roll where I was rolling 9d for a check, and needed one success. I rolled all 9 and got 0 successes. I was so frustrated that I pushed the roll and rolled all 9 again, and got 0 successes. that is, I rolled 18d6 looking for ONE 6, and got none. And that sort of thing happened a lot. What we found was that characters in Vaesen are TOO weak to be adventurers. The stories and setting are great, but it's not fun, for anyone, if the heroes almost always fail at everything they attempt. So that group closed the Vaesen books and moved on to something else. Maybe Vaesen would be better with d4s? I don't know.

[@cobinizer]

What? Are you not excited about WotC turning D&D into a cash grabbing computer game?

[@Eurodance_Groove]

Cash grabbing and votes directing left winged instruments of politics!!!

[@Nexusofgeek]

I resisted getting the 2024 PHB or whatever they are calling it now. Mostly I got it for my players. They wanna try out the updated rules so as long as they are still having fun with 5e I will run that for them. We do one shots of other systems at least once a month so we don’t get burned out in fantasy genre.

[@DaveThaumavore]

Welcome to paradise, my friend.

[@BCSully83]

Same. Burned on the fantasy genre at the same time WotC's evil and greed has completely turned me off. 40+ years and I'm out in D&D. FreeLeague is incredible, still love Call of Cthulhu, and Modiphius's 2d20 system is really nice. Too many great games out there to keep slavishly giving money to so horrid a corporate entity as WotC.

[@nrais76]

Amen

[@Leniathan]

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on DC20 if you ever check it out

[@BunnyNiyori]

looking at your shelves, and you have a LOT more books to remove if ditching D&D and the D&D experience :) Pathfinder for instance, just the other guy's D&D. I like Forbidden Lands. Also a big fan of Warhammer 4th FRP. I won't mention D&D wannabes as D&D by any flavour is still D&D. I like Palladium even though it has it's own warts. And Rolemaster is fine if you like crunchy. Both have well made settings. I recently discovered Adventurous. Nice if you like a clean one book concept. Barebones is also an amazing clean one book offering. But for unD&D, I think Forbidden Lands and Warhammer 4thFRP have the most going. I tend to only play fantasy settings, so I can't comment any further than that.

[@improvgm8663]

Never mind me, I'm just trying to reach through and grab that Warhammer 3rd edition stuff.

[@ChrisVengeant]

D&D Begone

[@NemoOhd20]

Love that! D&D Begone!!! Lolol

[@justinmargerum2559]

I can't be the only one who noticed this: You left "Vaesen: Seasons of Mystery" upside-down pretty early on and NEVER fixed it. "Alien: Heart of Darkness" is similarly upside down, but it was a late addition to the shelf. Same for "Ruins of Symbarum: Libro Basico." 100% agree with directing one's business away from Hasbro/WotC and toward other companies who actually care about their product quality and their customers; if anything, you're a few years late to the party on this one. Don't agree that efforts toward "diversity and inclusion" have been a strong point for Hasbro/WotC; they've only managed to add those issues to their ever-growing pile of fiascos and public relations failures. Besides, those are issues your current favorites don't really touch at all; it might be worth considering that having an escape from identity politic drama (or at least engaging on a purely voluntary rather than compulsory basis) in one's collaborative fantasy game could be one of the reasons it just feels better to play.

[@creativeassetsinc2487]

DDBeyond is running it into the ground. I intended to ignore the 'upgrade' but they've altered it so the old spells don't work anymore. A corp that wants to wring the money out of it is to blame. That and the looking under every pebble for racism that isnt there in the first place makes DDBeyond something that's just going to fade away, despite Hasbro/Wizards efforts to do the opposite. It was working, and they are actively breaking it.

[@FR0STBL0D]

Well, that seems resonable. I didn't really get on board with 5E in the first place. I didn't like the overall direction they took with the rules too much. It's just more of a simplified 3E meets AD&D2nd instead of the mainstream compatible cD&D meets 4E that I'd preferred. Some of their consultants - Zak S and RPGPundit - are weird. WotC German licensing deals were strange. Then the anti-Romani sentiment in Curse of Stradh (I bet you're more versed in the issue than I am) ... Well ... an then ... there are the more recent developments. When 5E was new ... I got some books. I sold them, keeping just the Starter Box. I've also got Strixhaven and Theros - to play them with probably Cypher one day. Anyway: 5E managed to get into a position that I don't care too much. I'd participate in playing the game, but I've got no interest in GMing the game or buying more than one or the other book. Especially since the indie scene, the diverse OSR crowd, Osprey and the more indie part of the UK scene (see Liminal, Cthuhu Hack, OpenQuest, Maelstrom) have so much more to offer. I also like what Pelgrane, Free League and Onxy Path are doing.

[@NemoOhd20]

Love the quality of free league's products and adventures.... But can't stand Year Zero engine. You have a 16% chance of success with a D6 or a 37% chance with a d8, or a 50% chance with a d10. Just not enough variability.

[@crapphone7744]

Yeah the D 20 system and all of the feats kind of ruined it for me. I think the year zero engine is going to get old too. Doesn't feel like combat when you're playing combat. Magic isn't mysterious.

[@GamerKatz_1971]

I am going back to where I started way back in high school in the 80's, AD&D 2nd edition.

[@SilverScribe85]

In spite of everything that's happened with the game, I'm STILL sticking with D&D; mainly because it's been a big source of inspiration for me and my writing

[@buddhawasright]

D&D Begone

[@natel7151]

Free League do an amazing job... relatively free from crazed political trends in America and the West without being actively hostile or reactionary. They just do a great job. They're better at capturing a licensed property than Modiphius, who I think sometimes throw 2d20 at everything without much thought (Homeworld, I'm looking at you). Forbidden Lands is everything I want from an OSR-style game that incorporates modern narrative-style sensibilities. And it's okay for people to hate Orcs! Osprey... also an amazing publisher. I really like their games and they also don't really give in to the political excesses of the modern Western society. It's straightforward, good gaming that (while not built completely from scratch) doesn't carry the baggage that long-standing properties like D&D have.

[@p0ck3tp3ar]

I will make this very simple. D&D 2E. Pencils. Paper. Dice. Imagination.

[@Eurodance_Groove]

D&D 5 ed and onward... Pc, Digital Dice, Digital Friends via Skype or similar and PLENTIFUL OF WOKE / GENDER / POLITICALLY CORRECT STUFF AND PRO COMUNIST POLITICS!!!

[@RolandBahr]

@@Eurodance_Groove Were you drunk when you wrote this?

[@Eurodance_Groove]

You should lower the level of the bad background music you put inside this good video about your rants towards D&D... Or speak louder, my friend!!! I am not a english speaker native and I struggle in listening too what you are saying, sometimes... And it is stressful... But I want nonetheless to listen to and to watch to your video!!! So, take better care of your followers or audience!!! No background music while you speak (slowly)!!! Speak louder... And clearly.

[@mykediemart]

That was 5e Hasbro branded game, not real D&D :P The adventures aren't good, especially lately just site to site encounters with milestone auto leveling. In addition to the Hasbro/WoTC nonsense. I get ya Glad you found different games, I have been looking toward more Free League stuff myself and some OSR stuff. Peace

[@jaysw9585]

Sounds like this guy just wants to move away from the medieval fantasy genre. That's understandable. My group has taken many breaks for other genres. I recommend Paranoia. A new edition just came out this year, and it's damn near perfect. Loads of fun. It's a great way to just have fun and not take it so seriously for a change. Also, kids on bikes is my other palate cleanser from Fantasy. Simple game that is fast play. As to alternate Fantasy systems, i have been trying to get a Zheihander or warhammer rpg gaming going for a while. The problem is that once I get a group, they just assume play DnD if it's medieval Fantasy since it's more familiar.

[@ThEAcaDEmy533]

DnD is not WoTC, homebrew is still the best solution to the problems of the slogging action economy. If the players want to try new games I leave it to the players to decide to what they want to play. My joy comes from playing games not what I personally like.

[@Avoloch]

every time wizards of the coast humilhate a progressive, an angel get his wings.

[@Eurodance_Groove]

WotC seems to concentrate all its efforts in woke / politically correct - ify all the products and lines she has instead of doing a cool and working gaming system!!! Stop doing left wing policies in boardgaming and in gdrs!!!

[@GMSMagazine]

Nah... I think we'll keep doing it...

[@fabioartoscassone9305]

u customers trusted a corporation too much. u given money to people didnt never throw a dice in all his life. with that money ruined D&D (in time for its 50th year) and your hobby. u trusted the MACHINE, and it ruined the GAME ENGINE.

[@mailmanwilly]

What kind of illegible finger-pointing is this?

[@NemoOhd20]

Correct. So many of the current talent have admitted in various places that they didnt even play RPGs prior to getting hired by Wizbros. They also have commented that they hate most gamers. It shows in their at marginal AT BEST products.

[@fabioartoscassone9305]

@@mailmanwilly if u have problems with english, NOT my problem