Why I free solo

Some people seemed surprised by my video of soloing an 8b+ • 8b+ Free Solo In this vlog I go through why I did it, why it wasn't that risky and why not doing it was a bigger risk than doing it.
I discuss at length how to gain the skills of confidence as a climber to lead and operate under dangerous conditions in climbing in my book 9 out of 10 climbers make the same mistakes.
www.davemacleod.com/shop/9out...

[@uremawifenowdave]

Dave is so hardcore he even chalks his lips before vlogging.

[@climbermacleod]

Fair point. Taken on the chin.

[@JPJeppe]

Got chalk?

[@muscularibuprofen69]

'chalk'

[@BrunoS1917]

Damn, I think this is the best channel on KZbin.

[@KOGIMIGOK]

climbing related indeed. Dave is a legend!

[@HilleCine]

Yeah it's a sleeper channel. I knew of dave from many years ago, just thought of him as just another strong guy. Never imagined he was such an amazing speaker and person.

[@danielparsons2859]

According to a study published in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health, the mortality rate for free solo climbers is estimated to be around 1 in 2,317 climbs. If that was the mortality rate for every time I started the car and drove then I wouldn't be driving a car.

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

Harder (for me) free soloing was part of my climbing game until 1992 when I onsight free soloed my most overall committing route under those conditions. I admit it was a bit "nip-and-tuck" in places, and as such t fully satisfied my ambitions in that area. I flew very close to the sun and returned unscathed but not unchanged. I have not done a hard solo since, and a still alive to be climbing 5.13+/ F8 in my 60s, quite healthy and happy, with an occasional easy ropeless "mountain day".

[@heoTheo]

Please start making videos! I’m sure you have lots of wisdom to share

[@henning_jasper]

I was one of the people criticizing your free soloing video so I am really happy that you commited a whole video on this topic. For me personally I feel like I understand you better now. And even if we don't agree on every single point you've convinced me to think over my position again. I definitely have a different and less naive point of view of free soloing. Thanks again! :)

[@climbermacleod]

Hey thanks!

[@bradb0t]

Dave, Thank you for continuing to be so open and responsive. You're a legend and an inspiration.

[@grahamjones2759]

Dave - you expertly put into words the nub of what many non-climbers struggle to understand. I think very few people understand the amount of preparation that goes into such routes - on screen you see an ascent of the route but not the hundreds / thousands of hours that have led up to that point.

[@denislejeune9218]

It's not a given though. Some free soloists do go for onsights, although normally at an easy level for them. Thing is, O/S free solo is in my books even more dangerous, just because you haven't checked that the holds will stay in place.

[@valaudae1809]

Explanation is appreciated but not necessary. We are all living proof that IT always happens to someone else. We climb as we do to enrich our lives and it is no-one’s business but our own. Dave’s a canny lad but l will disagree with him on one point. IT can happen to the best, eg Tony Wilmott, Phillip Jewell, Paul Williams, to name but three. I’m sure they set out on their last route positive they were not going to fall. Let’s leave the last word to the great 19th Century pioneer Alpinist Edward Whymper- “Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste; look well to each step; and from the beginning think what may be the end”.

[@stewart6329]

Good point well put sir, if it wasn't for people like you we would all still be living in caves. You've helped me get off my 40yr old behind and get back out into the hills. Genuine and honest videos are an inspiration.

[@ard1778]

The thing is, in a security based society like the one we live in today, it's difficult for people to understand why somebody would risk their life for something they love. Someone posted on the comments that our risk taking often involves putting others at risk, but in reality, for us to feel safe and have the life most live in the cities, you are always putting other people at risk. You put farmers at risk because they use pesticide for the food most eat, police at risk to keep you safe from harm, people who make clothing are overworked and risk exposure to other harmful chemicals, and if your are careful enough to examine it, I'm sure your can find hundreds of everyday activities which put other people at risk. What we fail to notice is that most of us outsource this risk to others because we are unwilling to take it ourselves. Most people are slaves of fear, and it's people like Dave, with a warrior mentality, willing to take the risk themselves in what they do best, that makes us glimpse into the possibilities of human potential without fear. Most people will never understand it, because most people today live in fear, but fear kills too, inaction kills you from inside, as Dave puts it: "there is risk in not doing too". He is someone willing to take the risk of choosing a way to live and die,. Meanwhile most people prefer the prospect of living past 70 but kill their mentality slowly by not doing, and physically by eating crap, smoking, drinking too much, and doing other longterm harmful stuff everyday. I hope he lives long enough so he can keep telling his tales to his daughter, and maybe his grandchildren in person, but if he doesn't, they should be proud of having witnessed a living example that being brave in life is something you have to do willingly everyday, and THAT is true freedom in a fearful society.

[@tinyhead_zn13]

Truer words were never spoken. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@benji104]

This was a nice, refreshing read!

[@francescascala1221]

I NEEDED to read someone else sharing this perspective. Thank you ARD!

[@WildlifeZambezi]

Leaving a comment so I can come back and read this regularly! Brilliant words which are thought provoking when read from central London.

[@SH-kj7co]

Don't underestimate society and don't overestimate some selfish warrior attitude. Normal people risk their life on a daily basis for others (fire fighters, rescue teams, soldiers) and parents in general would/do sacrifice their life for the life of their kids. (and even take life long burdens, which are much harder to carry than some brief moments). What people in general use as a guideline is the simple rule (from decision theory) to minimize the product of probability times loss (or maximize probability times gain). Of course everyone understands the probability of falling is low for these climbers but in general people don't understand what could be the big gain of free soloing. And honestly, I often asked climbers (including my father) what's their gain and never got a not selfish answer that cares about the loss of others. (And, it's not that I don't understand the free solo attitude - I did it myself when I was young.)

[@adammiller9179]

Very well said, Dave. Only some people understand the risk of NOT doing things. Other just don't get it. "All men die, but not all men live" is one of my favorite quotes.

[@willonthebus853]

Thanks for the video Dave. Some good food for thought

[@tobypritchard6095]

Right on Dave, big respect. You’ve inspired my climbing / life so much

[@LifeSoDetermined]

Hell yea, Dave. I share your thoughts on soloing. Glad I found your channel a few months ago.

[@mathius8360]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Dave. To me, the risk in climbing always seems so relative. I climb at a V5 level and yet I've still had people act like that's crazy. To be fair, they are not climbers. But still, to them, a V5 looks insanely impossible. And with only a small crash pad to break my fall? Forget it. I imagine it's the same thing for how I view someone like Alex Honnold free-soloing in Yosemite. It seems so bat-shit crazy to me. But like you say, it's about knowing what your own body is capable of and, therefore, the risk isn't as high as some may think. Keep up the amazing climbing. You are definitely an inspiration to so many people.

[@johnchappell9232]

Thank you Dave. Your heartfelt understanding of the risk assessment process is much appreciated. And considered.

[@justineichler1510]

Sage response and great advice for other climbers thinking of repeating your performance. Calculate every move to the point it becomes easy. Thanks for this video Dave!

[@martinphillips3057]

Great video Dave. You make some great points about self reliance which is a concept that seems to have been forgotten in today's society

[@rjhandguns-bodysurfing-wed9699]

That was very well said David, and I totally agree. I always tried explaining how I free solo for the Zen like feeling, peacefull mindset that I loved so much. I had lead poisoining age 2 which normally I have what most Docs would say is ADHD. But when I would free solo or play a $100 pool game my mind reached a monk like meditative state. I never lost a $100 pool game nor fell during free solo. I did feel an amazing Rush after I succeeded, I hated when some called me an adreneline addict. For me those expensive ropes some friends use that cost arm n leg but are only good for 5 or 7 falls, SCARES the Sh** out of me. Sorry Iv'e known way to many heros and mentors in free solo who died by a rope used past its prime. I would much rather know my limits and how far I can push me. Not some fraid rope, plus I dont get the same feeling on belay or even lead climbing with ropes. It does mean it often took me longer to master a route since I only used ropes once and hated it.

[@haydengutiw]

great stuff Dave, love the channel

[@Colestacks]

I liked Dave’s comment on the risk of not doing something you love or want to do. It was more risky for Dave to not solo the 8b+, because that would mean regret and doubt and lack of confidence would all be struggles for who knows how long. Soloing the route meant conquering those things. The physical risk was less than the potential emotional risk from not soloing the route. Love your stuff as always, Dave!

[@arnoldkotlyarevsky383]

Thank you for this insight into your mindset.

[@ryan.3950]

The best, most balanced and logical climbing videos on KZbin! Honestly inspirational.

[@dannygrout92]

Yyyyeeeeessssss Dave !!!! So much appreciation for this.

[@wynnhardrath]

Awesome! The genuine vulnerability here is awesome

[@alphaskin666]

Really reasonable and accessible explanation, well done :)

[@jonmurua]

This video is so open, so clear and so personal . Thanks for sharing all that insight! I understand now your way of thinking. Not that I agree, but I respect it. I just hope solo climbing won't become fashionable among non-cautious climbers and end up taking many lives.

[@ryanrougeux214]

Love the perspective. Motivation to reach a point of mastery to do some more harder highball bouldering.

[@seamuscannon4603]

A whole video on echo wall would be amazing. One of the hardest climbs ever and your lifetime project totally deserves it.

[@denislejeune9218]

exists. it's called Echo wall. you can get the dvd on Dave's website, 1 GBP if I'm not mistaken.

[@William.42]

Thanks for the insight!

[@persiancarpet5234]

The car analogy made it clear for me why people do it. I'm speeding sometimes if I think I can handle the risk (I know the route, no rain etc), pretty much the same as for your climbing. I would still think a lot about soloing a 4a or sth that I could very easily climb.. The human brain just overestimates very low risk with big consequence (like being afraid of flying)

[@zeewhat]

Thanks Dave for your highly personal comments on the risks and rewards of soloing. I had the great benefit of meeting Derek Hershy in Eldorado Springs Canyon Colorado in 1976. He was an inspiration as to what could be accomplished.

[@AndrewBenham]

Good response. Its also worth noting that most climbers in easier routes are often in effect free soloing when the run outs above ledges or close to the ground man a fall would result in us hitting something. I think the analogy about the car is a good one. I also think about running over technical ground in the mountains or on the coast path where a trip in the wrong place could be dangerous yet many more people accept that risk

[@willemjohannes9007]

I had never considered the risk of inaction before this. Well put.

[@tinyhead_zn13]

food fo thought, as always from you. thanks!

[@moto2pt3000]

Thank you sir! love the f1 reference

[@loujetlag]

Thank you, Dave. Peace.

[@SethPierceClimbing]

This makes a lot of sense. Thank you

[@jcrotty18]

Enjoyed the commentary. There is much truth to the general overtone that risk can be contained through careful calculation and certain knowledge and truth about our skill both mental and physical. However, in my decades of soloing the one big unknown is rock quality. Holds can and do break. Again, that's a risk and it to can be mostly calculated for but not entirely.

[@cofiking23]

thank you, I am beginning to understand

[@barrettself4183]

as a young climber who has tried free soloing, I understand that feeling. Though I have never gone near free soloing my grade limit, that zone is an unbeatable experience. Though I don’t understand why you would free solo with someone, and a camera crew, I appreciate the video. My experience was alone before the others woke up, and with no one worrying about me. I’m sure you do these too. Enjoy pushing the limit, I hope to catch up one day

[@michaelseemann4305]

Write another book, Dave 😂. Awesome explanation especially the "risk in not doing things" part...

[@walidmusagoni7822]

Nice video Dave. Would u want to make a video on training specific strengths/weaknesses on a bouldering wall? I have projects that demand either power on slopie undrclings or shoulderie moves. I try to set problems on my board that target those weaknesses and I do the problems but the progression on the project is still slow. How did u set problems like that when your shoulder was injured? Thanks for all the good content so far, mutch more informative then most of the other climbing vloggers here 😅👍

[@1983alex]

As always a very insightful video. You are the 0.01% that does things the rest of us dream of but are too scared to do

[@felipegarcia05189]

Well said, not doing things you love and conforming for something that you're not happy with is detrimental

[@TomClothier]

Any chance of getting a video on your experience of indian face dave? Love the content as always!

[@BomberBeta]

Dave you're nuts but I totally agree with you so I must be nuts too. Live it up!

[@darrenmarney8577]

Potential opportunities are to be embraced any time an individual has acquired the necessary knowledge & experience of situational awareness 👌 Dave's advice is as solid as his ability on rock 🙂 👍

[@ReaIJohnDoe]

No matter what he is talking about he always makes complete sense. He has an exceptional head on his shoulders and is very thorough it seems in all his achievements. Just look at what he does, he climbs every discipline to such a high standard. In my view the best all round climber on the planet as I can't think of anyone else that climbs so consistently difficult through every discipline. As a person he seems very balanced and level headed, it is going to be interesting to see what directions his daughter takes in life having such a well balanced father, however in the most extreme manner possible, such a contrast. Just comparing some greats against Dave as I sit thinking here. The one thing Uli seemed to miss to his personality was that extra level of mental balance, and obviously the same level of all round elite levels of accomplishment. I also don't feel that Honnold has that extra level, all be it he is not an all rounder but the mental strength he has I think we all agree is just something most people on this planet can not get their heads around. I don't get the feeling when I see him explain his mental process and reason that he has the same level of complete balance Dave has. I defo get the feeling that Honnold to a large degree is rolling those dice far more frequently, therefor can not be as mentally balanced. Dave is just mentally (putting physique to one side) at a level most of us could never conceive. Certainly none climbers have no clue at all how terrifyingly crippling climbing can be if you're not mentally prepared, but it goes deeper than the climb itself, certainly when you have a family. It is interesting to hear that people who are obviously climbers themselves commenting and telling Dave not to solo. You'd expect a little more understanding of where Daves head must be if you are a climber, but then maybe he is just so many levels out of some peoples mental reach they just don't get it at all. That is very possible if you are the type of person who goes climbing and is absolutely terrified from the second your feet leave the ground every time you go out, and there are people like that. I used to have a partner that came to Verdon with me for a couple of weeks after spending her life on Northumbrian Sandstone, she cried the vast majority of that vacation however afterwards couldn't keep her off and goes religiously every year every since, and cries for 2 full weeks, it's an odd game.

[@ignacionogalesaisa831]

I always remember Alex talking in TED about his free solo climbing. He said it was "like a walk in the park". Then i saw the film, and honestly, you don't think about a walk in the park for days, and you decide to postpone it, and you consider it as something you might not do yet.... Then I understood that somehow is just unexplainable how they have a different perception of risk. Yes you can die any day in a car, but the people doing it in comparison with the people who dies in car accident is probably much, much, much less than comparing people free soloing and died from it. You can't compare drive a car with free soloing. That's all. Even Adam Onra doesn't do free solo. Ever. Because he has lot to loose. And he knows what are the risks. So all in all, no matter what they say, free soloers are just.... Let me say it nicely..... Bit different?

[@paulusul]

hold fast, hold true

[@yungthunder2681]

Thank you for sharing this. I'm so tired of the narrative coming from all these indoor only climbers that have never touched an actual rock

[@harrisonrocks6388]

Great video Dave! The ethics of the dark arts can be a tricky one to explain and often only be understood by those who practice it but you did a good job here! I love the freedom of free soloing but recently had a bad accident and was wondering if you had any advice for me. I fell about 9 metres when a hold broke on me while free soloing, braking both calcaneus and receiving L4 compression burst fracture in my back. I spent 5 weeks in hospital and had a metal plate put in my right foot. 4 months down the line I'm walking around without crutches but use them for longer walks or when my feet are tired. The physio load is pretty heavy and I have started top rope climbing a little bit too. Any advice you can give me will be very helpful as I look up to you as a young climber. At 19 I can definitely say I've had youth on my side!

[@tugrulirmak315]

Were you on-sight soloing?

[@harrisonrocks6388]

@@tugrulirmak315 nope, it was a route I've soloed for years and not just by me. People generally though the hold that broke was bomber untill it went.

[@davidthompson8134]

I think you have to really think about how important soloing is for you as you were lucky to have experienced a close call and still be alive. Its obviously a really personal choice and making sure you know why your taking that risk is important.

[@struandonald1599]

How about that for risk management, industry could learn so much from this man, a true legend and inspiration to all.

[@tpstrat14]

I’d like to hear a few words about how you ease your loved ones’ fears. Would you stop free soloing if there was a member of your family that just couldn’t grasp how confident you are on the rock? Like how do you explain to your child how important it is to put your life on the line to pursue your climbing goals? If I knew that a family member or friend was free soloing, I’d plan a full on family intervention to at least try and understand his thinking. It wouldn’t just be like “oh that’s just what he does. Moving on.”

[@climbermacleod]

Even many climbers cannot grasp the size of risks in different scenarios in climbing. So I don't expect non climbers to. Many climbers don't really understand that an expert level climber soloing a climb that is easy for them is considerably safer than many climber's leading on a rope.

[@gnrfan32]

"yolo" -Dave MacLeod

[@CrimPEClimbing6690]

I wish to be at this level some day.

[@bernhardlangers778]

Dave, would you care to elaborate on why a fall on the crux of echo wall would likely be fatal? Is it the gear, a massive run out, a ledge you'd hit while falling? I'm curious to get some insight.

[@Bhamlunker]

Interesting video and my comment/question is not from a judgmental place but inquiry only: I suppose if one develops a perspective that to miss out on an impressive free solo this would be a “risk” but that’s not inherent is it? That is the idea that this would be a “risk” is a matter of perspective - even like you said may have to do with a developed “identity” - that word sounds a bit like “an immutable trait” but is it? Maybe in some cases it is? But I suppose the perceived “risk” of not doing such a climb could be born from points of view evolved from various life experiences. I cannot help but wonder if the idea that not doing it is a “risk” could be in some cases more of a “thought distortion”? That said - I support you and find your perspective and identity intriguing/inspiring!

[@brass086]

yet anothe very good and clever video. Although my pinnacle challenge is not as huge as echo wall, I completed mine (summiting the Matterhorn) 13 September 2019. Dave, my question is after echo wall, and completing such a monumental and life time target, did you feel empty? I asked that's the feeling I have now after 9years dreaming, planning, training and executing I'm faced with a "what now". If you did what did you do to overcome that feeling? I'm just training to push my winter grades to a somewhat reasonable level iv6 or M6/7 but finding I'm having to really force the motivation at present and want to move on as I love mountains, outdoors and being out in nature? Thank you for the videos and look forward to seeing what you get up to. hope the rest of 2019 is good for you, your family and friends. Matt

[@climbermacleod]

Yes I have had this a few times, lasting up to a year at times. I think it is kind of common for anyone focused on a long term project. It is important to put effort into moving past it. I've seen in a few people it can lead to some weird life decisions. I just kept getting out and looking for the next project, whether in climbing or otherwise (work etc). I do think its problematic if all the motivation comes from one goal. I love hard projects, but its just one strand of my motivation. I also love just being in mountains, I love training, I love hanging out with climbing partners, I love researching science to help my climbing, etc. All these things help when the next goal has not emerged yet.

[@brass086]

@@climbermacleod Thank you so much for your helpful and detailed reply. I'm glad that it's common and that you yourself have experienced it. I also really appreciate the advice and how to push past it. I'm taking the "one goal is problematic" as. a diversify and set multiple goals. it makes sense and if I had number of ultimate goals the moving on would be easier. I can tell you love the mountains and it's great just to be out in the hills too. Thank you for the help and advice, all taken on board and is fantastic advice, all making sense too Dave, Thank you, it means a lot. Matt

[@climbermacleod]

@@brass086 Good stuff. Yeah some people seem to do well with singular focus, others with a few things on the go at the same time. I would say for me its a hierarchy of projects. Sometimes one big one takes up most of the picture, sometimes I plate spin a few at the same time. It just depends on the nature of the given project.

[@brass086]

@@climbermacleod Thanks for that... it helps to understand how you as a pro climber thinks and sets their stall out with climbs/goals and projects. Your words carry a lot of weight and I appreciate that you genuinely want to help all climbers, all levels and walks of life (from all of your comments on videos). Thank you for taking a genuine interest and helping (not just me) but the climbing community. My already high level of respect for you has increased ten fold. Thank you Matt

[@jakechapman6169]

Doesn't it say in Free Solo that 'soloing is the purest form of climbing'? It's also really fun, like climbing a tree when you were a kid, and useful: last spring I found that soloing improved my head game massively. I've never soloed anywhere near my hardest grade (VDiff versus E1), but I found that regularly soloing made climbing with a rope feel much less scary.

[@smuir6104]

I think a lot of people misjudge climbing in general, or maybe whitewater kayaking. They think we are all reckless thrill seekers, cheating death at every turn. They fail to realize how many years, of practice and training go into these things. We've already climbed the V2's and then moved on, got to where that was too easy, then more, step by step. We'd never free solo our first V 10, or even our first V 2 for that matter. I get a lot of hate for free climbing, so I appreciate your voice on the topic.

[@fabiopalma4429]

Amen to that

[@badaman4life]

legend

[@denislejeune9218]

Cheers for that. But that only covers Darwin Dixit. The thing is you still free solo, on easier routes. So what is the attraction there? Also, are you in the same mental space when free soloing and highballing?

[@climbermacleod]

I don't generally do any highball bouldering. Its too dangerous for me, at least when its done in the way that tends to be popular i.e. climbing stuff hard enough that some falls from several metres up are to be expected. I either solo (rarely) things I'm not going to fall off, lead them on trad with at least some gear, or just don't do them. As I say in the video, I have a fairly low tolerance for danger since I climb a lot and so can't afford to be anything but conservative with risk taking. Easy routes are easy - by definition there is a large amount of margin. Complacency is the danger on easy routes. You could make a reasonable argument that the tendency for complacency makes them more dangerous. Its good to point out that my worst ever climbing accident was getting lowered off and then dropped on a 6b sport route.

[@denislejeune9218]

@@climbermacleod Well I'm way better than you then (yeehhaaa - hubris), I got lowered and dropped on a 5c.

[@denislejeune9218]

@@climbermacleod I agree, complacency is a killer. Thanks for expanding. Interesting take on the danger of highballing. I'd have thought a V10 isn't that challenging for you, especially if you've got it dialled in. Anyway thanks again for this, and the other, vlogs.

[@tambling3961]

What is his accent? It's really nice to listen to :)

[@deltoidsforaltoids]

Scottish

[@Squeez210]

What do you think about high grade Free Solo Onsights?

[@dillweed501]

A bad idea

[@Squeez210]

@@dillweed501 How come?

[@dillweed501]

B Bob generally speaking, most soloist that are climbing higher grade route climb it multiple times with ropes and all the other gear so they can learn the route. Going into the climb blind could tend to be quite dangerous.

[@QuinnTheVegan]

Sounds like a YOLO solo

[@chloetodd250]

is daves 8b+ the hardest ever free solo? seems to me to be so

[@jonmurua]

This video gave me a lot of food for thought and I ended up free soloing myself as well. Here you have the result: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqennJd9nNJlfZI

[@tracecarrasco3872]

I feel like my opinions of free soloing are always changing, after the "freesoloist" on instagram passed, I took the strong position that free soloing is selfish. Selfish in the sense that you are risking your life for a goal that is for you. We hear people like Dave speak so effortlessly about why they do it and equate it to everyday life risk management, which I understand, I just find it interesting that at some threshold we feel so sure about something that the risk to payout ratio is worth it.

[@denislejeune9218]

All we do is selfish, even altruism.

[@drchristopherbaird]

I deeply appreciate the argument that climbing, or free-soloing hard routes can be an act of individual artistic expression. However, I don't think the argument for free-soloing should rest on grounds that if we feel as an individual it's important to us, we should pursue it. The risk factor, however controlled, puts many significant others in precarious positions. Whether it's our children, parents, partners, friends, local emergency services, hospitals, or forest rangers, when we decide to pull on without rope or harness, these other persons cannot be similarly unbound from our act. If we fall, they fall with us, but rarely do they feel the highs that we might in our successes. Free-soloing unfortunately risks being an egocentric, atomised act, even if it is an aesthetically beautiful and thrilling one. With that said, I am aware that some free-solo'ers use this practice as a way to cope with life's many challenges, and therefore to feel better connected with their significant others. In this case, I have much more praise. I hope that these points can be put forward in a constructive manner and that I mean no offense. Dave, if you ever read this, you are a huge inspiration to me. My partner and I often sit together at lunch watching your videos-learning, debating, growing.

[@denislejeune9218]

The same could be said for every biker. Free diver. Big wave surfer. And so on. It can be said about many many activities, which if not done right will lead to death. Damocles' sword hangs over us in many things we do. Free solo is no different. Quite a few of my friends don't want to ride a motorbike on the account that it's dangerous. Not untrue. Each and every one of us places the bar where he/she feels confident, despite the inherent dangers. Personally I certainly do not free solo, but I do ride a motorbike.

[@Nick-B78]

Chris Baird I’m sorry but your argument, whilst I can see your point, doesn’t really work because if you really did follow that you’d never do anything....ever. And I mean even as much as driving down the road to a shop to buy something. What if a person were driving to a shop to buy themselves an item of clothing for example. If they were to have an accident and die would you feel like they were being selfish and putting themselves at risk and potentially leaving all their loved ones at risk of losing them? And what about the emergency workers that had to attend the accident? Every action has a level of risk and we each have to assess that risk and choose whether or not to act. It’s no different with climbing. Every time I go climbing I have to accept that I may well fall from the bouldering wall and break a limb or potentially even my neck if I did something really weird. I would say that the other option is to simply lock ourselves away and never put ourselves at risk but even that wouldn’t be true because there are multiple ways you could die in your own home from fire to falling to drowning etc.

[@drchristopherbaird]

@@Nick-B78 I understand where you're coming from, but the risk of free-soloing an F8b+ can hardly be compared with the risk of leaving one's house to visit the shop. For a start, we don't have much choice on whether or not we visit the shop. We need to eat, and therefore we need to buy the food that sustains us. Pulling onto an F8b+ route to climb without protection, however, we do have some choice over that. It's an enormous level of risk, no matter the skill or strength of the climber. It doesn't take much insight into the practice of free-soloing to know just how many people who were soloing routes "well within their grades" have died or been seriously injured. Therefore I think my point stands fairly.

[@yScribblezHD]

@@drchristopherbaird Well we do have tons of choices in that - we choose to drive around MOSTLY out of convenience rather than necessity. We are willing to increase the risk for convenience, and Dave is willing to take on a similar risk for accomplishment. Let's face it - none of us don't know (and many of us never will) the perceived and actual risk for Dave soloing 8b+. I'm not saying I would ever solo, but I do think I could solo a 4a with about 99.99999% likelihood, especially if I'd done it before many times. In that instance, I would say soloing that 4a would be equally or less risky than driving 30 minutes total to get to and from the store, and I think it's perfectly understandable to take the risk of either of those actions, assuming I'd get a lot of personal satisfaction out of soloing 4a (although I know I wouldn't, which is why I would never do it).

[@climbermacleod]

Thanks Chris. My argument about the risk of inaction extends to friends and family just as much as yours does about the risk of soloing. Everyone benefits from calculated risk taking as a strategy in life. Even if it is only by that soloist being allowed to actually be who they are. Of course the arguments break down at the margins - recklessness is recklessness. But I think its worth being cautious not to trivialise the benefits of exercising control in climbing in the presence of risk.

[@bigdog5112]

Huge fan but going to have to disagree on this one. The car analogy doesn’t work in this scenario. You don’t have to climb in the way whilst you do have to pick your daughter up from school. Again as you said we only have one life and have to do things that are important to us, this is an incredibly selfish statement although it is true to some extent. You have a daughter, doing 8b+ solo for training purposes is simply too much. Big fan tho

[@MrTobitobitobitobi]

The main problem i have with this line of argumentation is in one word "hybris" Dave is very well spoken and articulates nicely what most extreme alpinists or free soloists are trying to say. The only problem is that despite all that most of the guys pushing the limits die(d). And i guess its fair to assume that they themselves thought pretty much the same as he pointed out. It remains unclear what causes most of these deadly accidents but i think its fair to say that the sheer amount of time spent in potentially deadly environments is very risky even for the best prepared and trained guys (may it because of bad luck, overconfidence, fate or whatever reason you might come up with)

[@denislejeune9218]

'most of the guys pushing the limits die(d)': not true, or you'll have to provide evidence. Some of the names quoted as examples of free solo deaths in Free Solo didn't die while free soloing, and Honnold himself was critical of the sensationalism.

[@denislejeune9218]

One man's 'hubris' is another man's 'process', or 'test', or 'life affirmation'. Don't forget the relativity of human experience, you know, apples and oranges. You can't stick a rigid grid over everything, or you're being a navel-absorbed geezer. Cultural differences take many forms, and often within one culture, as here.

[@MrTobitobitobitobi]

@@denislejeune9218 That is perfectly true but if im not mistaken the vast majority of them died while being in their "natural habitat" doing what they would call "easy" stuff and that was mainly the point i was trying to make. Take for example Ueli Steck. He seemed like the guy being as well prepared as you can humanly be for any of his adventures. In the end either something out of his control happend or he was overconfident in his abilities and made a mistake. And that is exactly the scary part about convincing yourself of being able to control the entire situation while any mistake will lead to pretty much a certain death. You may get away with it in 999/1000 times but the more you put yourself in dangerous situations the more likely you will have bad luck one time. That is the crazy part in my opinion and thats why most people try to avoid being in dangerous environments too often. The people who dont may survive it and die happy in their 90s but apparently most of the guys who convinced themselves to be able to push the limits constantly dont get away with it and die young

[@climbermacleod]

I would slightly object to your comparison to alpinists and 'free soloists', since neither is a fair comparison to what I do. Many alpinists I know (including some who are now dead) take risks that would be well outside my tolerance. Alpine terrain is different to soloing rock climbs. I also would readily accept that soloing constantly on anything above moderate difficulty terrain (if this is what you mean by free soloist) clocks up a larger exposure to risk. I don't do that much soloing. And only a tiny amount on hard climbs. I'm sure hubris does exist and I've seen it from time to time in climbing, but more often in the inexperienced than the experts. I don't think hubris plays a major role. There is another ripple in the argument as well, which is that once you leave the ground, sometimes a touch of hubris can be used as a tool to remain calm and not become gripped. It can go badly wrong if you don't know exactly what you are doing though, obviously. I would say though, that most good rock climbers have great respect for their limits, and for the hardness of the ground. If anything, they have to train themselves to be more confident.

[@coldclimateoffgrid3061]

So do you wear a seat belt when you drive?

[@DaleTurrell]

So do you wear a helmet when you drive?

[@coldclimateoffgrid3061]

@@DaleTurrell Do you wear elbow and knee pads when you climb? A mouth guard?

[@DaleTurrell]

@@coldclimateoffgrid3061 Exactly!

[@stuckcamping]

Why do all free soloist have to justify their means of climbing? Stop trying to justify and just live your life

[@trucosfreak]

Fuck i not speak english but i love this chanel :(

[@Rickshaw_Bohammer]

It sounds like the person telling you to stop soloing is the kinda person to yell at you for not wearing a mask for a virus with a 99% survival rate