Why it’s harder to leave a narcissistic parent than a loving parent

[@hazelkitty27]

It's harder to leave a narcissistic parent than a loving parent because a loving parent prepares you to be strong enough to leave them, a narcissistic parent does not.

[@saracroft2589]

And you can always come back to loving parents if you have trouble without any humiliation or vengeance!

[@blackwhite-mt5nj]

You do not have to leave them because they are loving....

[@raissa39]

Narc parents also withhold resources and make sure opportunities for friendships, jobs - anything that would empower the child are missed. They are clingy & emotionally manipulative making the child feel guilty for any success, friend, relationship or striking out on their own the child has managed to accomplish despite the limited resources they were given.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

​@Dawn Kikong truth!

[@lallyk3945]

This is so true.

[@raissa39]

@Dawn Kikong - never experienced much generosity - measured at best

[@jcm5171]

They do manage to trap us with money issues that are so twisted and weird you just don't understand what happened. It's like voodoo.

[@palefireinca]

I appreciate your comment very much. My mother did exactly this in one way, and my father in another. When my mother's efforts to withhold from and disempower me failed, she became outright competitive and combative, malignantly so. My father's will was that we be isolated in all things church, and nothing of "the world". A true bunker mentality. This has been so hard to break down. He could not stand that I thought my own thoughts and ably articulated them, practically spitting at me that I obviously knew my own mind. You see, I was not supposed to have my own mind, but the mind of christ only. Not that he could define what that was.

[@newworldastrology1102]

It’s really a curse and a blessing to have to experience the “forced independence” necessary to escape the narcissist parent, and the cost is very high. Love to all survivors. Stay strong.

[@Ayesha_11122]

❤

[@fruitypopwhickle6806]

"Go where love is given, not earned". I'm healing. ❤

[@Theowlhawk]

For me, it was the cruelty mixed in with the crumbs of " love" Messes with your head You believe the parent when they say they love you, at same time, punish you and you don't know what you did to upset them. The constant unexpected shocks to your nervous system over and over for years.

[@chellotrevino7323]

Crumbs of love so she was breadcrumbing you I a manipulative tactic evil ppl use

[@girlSAVANT]

My "mother" never told me she loved me.

[@dark7angel456]

Emotionally manipulated and lack of privacy needed

[@CarolMcCooke]

This is just how it was for me. The more rejected I felt the more I tried to please them. When my parents died it was more relief than grief.

[@inathi1329]

"If the child doesnt manufacture the relationship to the parent, there will be none." Exactly! That's how it is now that I've begun to fully individuate at 26

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

They don't even want a relationship. Ever. They want someone to use for their own gains.

[@warrenbradford2597]

@@ASMRyouVEGANyet Ross Rosenberg says you "are wrong for saying narcissists cannot love". Dr. Hawkins say narcissists can love people, just not for who they are. They love them for what they can do for them. "Why Narcissists Want Children - Yet Scar Them For Life. Expert on Narcissism Explains": kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZfNo2NobbConrs

[@ginafarley6190]

Thank God you’re finding your way out! May the winds of fate guide you to safety ❤️

[@BB-hp5ml]

W es s. Sc

[@kaylaschroeder1]

So many exceptional quotes from this video. That was one that stuck out for me, too. Thanks for pinning. 🎯

[@mores5780]

A child used to contempt will feel contempt for anyone who loves them.

[@krissyhimes9357]

This is so so difficult to hear especially if you picture a defenseless child not understanding why the parents doesn’t hold them comfortably anymore. So sad

[@christar9527]

I immediately wanted to cry. I had to stop listening to the video.

[@kiskakuznetsova503]

I know! Before I read up on scapegoating I thought my family was human. Now I see that no sane, capable of love adult would attack a 3 year old with lies, smears, etc. people who do this are so sad and delusional.

[@MJ-qb5ph]

@@MJ-awp pathetic sums it up totally

[@sugarpuddin]

Passing illness on from generation to generation

[@TheLordsbattleaxe]

Yes, it is.

[@taniabluebell3099]

The child becomes hyper aware and attempts to emotionally support their parent who is in a constant state of distress. The parent can also become hostile and berate the child, making empty threats. The child is conditioned to become a people pleaser and the emotional punching bag. The child is the family scapegoat, something that extends into adulthood. The abuse stops once the scapegoat leaves and goes no contact with their abusers and the enablers who allowed it to continue. The scapegoat can rebuild their life once the saboteurs are eliminated from their life.

[@amberfuchs398]

💯

[@kaylaschroeder1]

Thank you for this.

[@UniversalMysticsOfChrist]

Very powerful and valuable comment 💪🙏🏽

[@TheLordsbattleaxe]

Thanks for this post.

[@sugarpuddin]

Precisely

[@xueya2188]

"Where love is given, not earned." That's a keeper.

[@annewoods3528]

My mother was so cruel, it was relatively easier to keep a distance. It was the enablers (father, brothers, and relatives) that I implicitly tried to win over. After realizing my brother colluded together to trick me into doing something they didn't want to do for my parents, I realized my mother had won. She succeeded in instilling my scapegoat role in my brothers. At that point, all hopes were lost. I cut off all contact with all of them. Best decision of my life! It not only served to protect myself, it became a source of empowerment. I revel in the fact that I made it clear to every one of them know that I knew what they did to me, and I did not appreciate it.

[@moirabijker]

I relate to your comment. I have also cut off contact with my covert Narc mom and 2 enabling (flying monkeys) siblings. My life is much less chaotic. Although I still feel lonely often.

[@annewoods3528]

@@moirabijker I don't feel lonely, but I know we all need safe relationships. Just finished reading "Safe People: How to Find Relationships that are Good for You and Avoid Those That Aren't", recommended by Jay in his book. It's written by 2 Christian counselors, so lots of Bible quotes. Apart from that, it does have useful points. My radar safe people is so broken, I need to build it from scratch.

[@janettemartin4604]

@@annewoods3528 SO TRUE!

[@melliecrann-gaoth4789]

Anne Woods well done you- and yet again more cruel mothers and enabling fathers

[@melliecrann-gaoth4789]

@@annewoods3528 yes I know what you mean.

[@1RPJacob]

21:50 So true: you will piss off your narc parent big time if go where you are wanted or do what you like. I understand now that, in my childhood, my parent's negative comments about me were brainwashing tools to make me think badly about myself.

[@kaylaschroeder1]

Which is, in my opinion, one of the most sadistic and damaging to the brainwashed and abused child. It's extremely sick to do that on purpose to your child.

[@TheLordsbattleaxe]

@@kaylaschroeder1 yes, it is.

[@honeymoonavenue97]

@@kaylaschroeder1my narcissistic parents yeah both are narcissists ikr they convinced and brainwashed my brother into thinking I was selfish for going to the hospital for my stomach pain. My dad stormed into the ER, put my mom on FaceTime (very loudly) and my mom and dad both called me stupid and my dad lied to a nurse and said he got a doctor appointment for me the next day (that never happens that quickly in America) and then I ended up booking my own doctors appointment that’s many days away but oh well.

[@soliel8999]

I'm gaining distance as fast as I can now that I realize what has happened. I'm never looking back either.

[@Ed-lian]

My mother forbade me to have any talent. She wasn't benevolent to me. I was the scapegoat and my two siblings were the golden children. They then imitate their behavior towards me. So I was avoided by everyone, ignored. (The narcissist's scapegoating behavior extends to the whole family. Siblings aunts uncles and dad ) She prevented contact with aunts. They could have said something about the mother's behavior and acted in a supportive manner. My mother made members of the family into flying monkeys. They then carried out and confirmed what the mother wanted to enforce. Confirmed what she had said. I am now 53 and only now able to realize what actually happened. It feels so hard to distance myself from such a powerful mother. who manipulates so many. And I lost all my family in the course of the 0 contact with my mother. A family that I basically never had.... But it's still such a mental isolation.

[@yosra3551]

She is not powerfull AT ALL. She litterally gave her body over to demons in exchange for nothing but a ticket to hell if she doesn't repent. Please find the Creator's approval and win in the end, to save your soul. Satan doesnt care about both of you.

[@naturalhealingmexico]

Keep the faith, better alone than in bad company, I am in the process of 0 contact, a narc family it's a lost case, it doesn't worth to keep in touch, you eventually will be hurt again. It's a vicious circle, the only way it's t get out of it. Never look back, just keep forward..

[@Giggledoors0]

Oh my gosh I can’t relate to every single thing you said. To a T. It is such a betrayal by your own family. Yes, the mother has set people up to abuse you and treat you like trash because of the narrative she fed them over all the years. They work overtime on keeping up their lies, drama & made up stories of being the victim and the hero. They know no ends to how far they’ll go to smear your name. Nothing & no one is off limits. Your own children and if you are married or in a relationship she will poison them against you too. All to make sure no one will ever discover the truth. Then, they will act like they love you and be “kind” to you to your face all while the second before they were smearing your name to your loved one. I have never been one to enable my mother’s behavior. I have always been able to see through it from a very young age. That is why they hate you. That is why they go to any lengths to ruin any chance of success, love, connection for you. It is sick and I would love to see the tables turn on them and they go through what they’ve done to us. Anytime someone catches on to her, even if it’s just a small truth coming out revealing what a horrible person she is, she gets scary. She isn’t ashamed. She is ready to hurt you even more. As long as their charade is maintained and they are getting their supply fed everything is just peachy.

[@carospereman3537]

I often wondered why I was also so drawn to be at home while other kids were off and didn't see their parents for months. I thought, those kids don't even want to be with their parents and I have such a close relationship with mine. I was under the narc spell for a long time and had to act in the way Jay's describes just to keep the relationship. I knew I was abandoning what I believed but wanting love was more important.

[@jcm5171]

Same. It took me forever...

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

​@@jcm5171 took me 23 years. Finally going to live my life how I want.

[@izi.z2384]

Little did we know - if we didn't take up the slack, things would fall apart. Little did we know - that may have been for the better after all.

[@sugarpuddin]

Same. I was seeking something that I could not have... It's like chasing the dragon of opioid addiction

[@rinahgberg312]

This is so true and very painful. I sometimes feel like I don't exist. I also find it difficult to follow my own inner guide/gut feeling because almost every time I do there is another force inside that stops me, it is very frustrating. This is a lot of work and I could not have done it without your help. Thank you again.💫

[@Hawaiiansky11]

That annoying voice opposing your intuition is the Critical Parent voice. Tell it to f--- off. :)

[@sugarpuddin]

And so, the illness is passed from generation to generation

[@jcm5171]

Jay, this is incredible. I just had an epiphany ! I had to "over activate my attachment" to my mother. That's what happened. Those feelings of abandonment, each time I got away...I couldn't figure why I didn't go as far I could, given I had many opportunities. I met wonderful people and yet... To this day, I get this feeling sometimes, out of nowhere, that "I cannot live without my mother." I am 68 years old and she managed to talk me into living with me. She has become so abusive and out of control with narcissistic rage these past two years that I have to lock myself in my room. This over activation of attachment makes so much sense now. Thank you, Jay, all your videos are absolutely top notch. I have been listening to many experts and psychologists and some of them are really very interesting and useful, but you are in a class of your own. Not only your insights and three pillar method are amazing but the way you organize your thoughts and explain is perfect. I fall asleep at night as I listen to you with my iPad. It comforts me so and I learn more while I sleep...My partner is very understanding, God bless him. The only reason I haven't bought your online course yet is that I can't afford it right now plus I am so deep in depression that I am not sure I could do it now but I sure can't wait to get it. I feel it in my bones. Hope. Many thanks from France. I only wish I could be back in California right now.

[@palefireinca]

I wish you were in California, too. Although France must be lovely.

[@kaylaschroeder1]

I feel for you in the trapped feeling you must have. Stay alive, and remember that you *can* live without her... And you will have more peace when that finally occurs. I wish you the best.

[@sbfabtfc1]

I've never heard a better argument for surrendering hope for fixing a relationship in my life. You are absolutely right, and giving up hope that the narcissist will "come around" is the best thing I ever did, because it was the gateway to all the improvement that came after. And I can tell you from personal experience that the narcissist will go to his grave thinking that he never did anything wrong and that he just had ungrateful children. So glad I ditched my immediate family 33 years ago, because I watched what happened to my siblings who stayed. Each is an emotional train wreck who adopted too many of our father's behaviors and continued the cycle of abuse. I thank the heavens every day that both stayed childless.

[@sugarpuddin]

It is like chasing the dragon of opioid addiction

[@Sparrow0514]

59 years old, live a mile away from psychologically abusive mother…have gained independence for the most part but have found I’m a magnet for narcs, love bombs followed by subtle put downs/devaluing etc., I’m a nurse so I have a good sense of connection in helping others in a meaningful way. I feel safe when Im alone. I have a deep religious faith and this is what has made me know my value. God bless

[@somethinggood9267]

One way that being raised by a narcissist has affected me is that I tend to chase people who withdraw their love, similar to the patient you treated. Since learning more about narcissism, I understand why I do that. I understand that when someone with drawers their love it's their choice, and it often has nothing to do with me if I haven't done anything to offend them. This has happened to me a lot in friendships, they start treating me differently and I'm so confused and her and try to win their love back

[@clairepurcell7577]

this is so validating...spent my lifetime disentangling from my narcissistic parents and gaslighting myself about it and every one of your videos helps me see it more clearly. There are so many strange residual cords still stuck in me even as an adult in how i think of myself and constantly feel guilty putting my needs before them waiting for them to wake up and say "we see you"... And the shame i still carry from having to be my parents emotional support animal and not develop my own person is overwhelming. It took me so long to learn about basics of who I was and to stop blaming and hating myself for it the things i did not learn and know how to do......i think because i was actively not allowed to be who i was growing up and told i was wrong, bad or hurting them whenever i tried to express myself or make my life about me.

[@kaylaschroeder1]

Underrated comment.

[@sugarpuddin]

I listen to so many of these videosi finally woke up

[@kobra4422]

So true. I didn't watch the video when it came cause I knew it will be triggering. But it's enlightening. Girls are at high risk of being sheltered bc we hear things like: "don't go alone", "it's dangerous" or we are silenced and discouraged from initiating friendships/relationships It causes general/social anxiety that makes it hard to separate from the parent.

[@leeboriack8054]

Jay, what would my world be like if I found you in my late teens, I’m 62 now. A childhood under the thumb of narcissistic parents creates an unfortunate destiny.

[@briannixon6020]

I too wish I had found out about this earlier. I'm 63. Left home at 13 after being attacked by my mother with a knife. I tried for 50 years to have a relationship with my father and two younger brothers. Dad passed a couple of years ago and my brothers are mothers flying monkeys, just like their father. NC is the only way I can protect myself. I miss my brothers, but they side with her - tell me I'm the insane one. It's getting easier as time passes, but I will always miss my brothers. The abuse is simply NOT worth it

[@Artlover2803]

​​@@briannixon6020 I wish you heal and live in peace. Try vipassana meditation by sn goenka 🧘‍♂️ it will break your patterns .

[@sinesolesoleo5474]

Thank you for another insightful video. Yes: Gaining distance to my abusing parents was as important as it was difficult. I struggled with a feeling of loneliness for a long time even though there was never any love in the first place. Now the loneliness gets better, but I still feel guilty as hell.

[@diatribe5]

I’ve noticed that relatives, even normal good enough ones, are great at the guilt trip thing.

[@taniabluebell3099]

No contact provides the freedom that alluded us when we maintained a relationship. The trauma bond that creates that feeling of guilt no longer has an impact when real no contact is administered. I found limited contact (gray rock) still allowed my family to control me from a distance. Once I cutoff the access they had to me, physically and emotionally, that is when I began to recover. Your body needs time to learn that it does not need to be in constant fight or flight mode. Disclaimer: No contact is a personal decision. One I encourage but needed to exhaust all my options with my family before I ultimately decided to go NC.

[@soniahathaway1]

I refused to understand for so long. My mother did so much damage last year it was suddenly plainly in sight to me. I will never be in contact with her again; she is dangerous to me and mine. 😢

[@sinesolesoleo5474]

​@@taniabluebell3099 Thank you. Yes: complete distance ("real no contact") would make it easier, but - as your disclaimer implies too - that decision is not easy: Dr. Ramani made a video about this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYG9qaOCrN-pbLs ("The psychological trolly problem and narcissism"). Anyway you are right: it's a personal decision and I can imagine it was not at all easy for you to exhaust all options. I still struggle with it.

[@jamesward6301]

This is my story too. This year all the truths came out. So so painful. Now I'm going no contact and these similar experiences being shared are so helpful. The guilt I'm having to work very hard on, by seeing and understanding the truth that I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE NARCISSIST MOTHER AT ALL. But the loneliness is so painful. This will ease. It has to

[@Golden_lavender]

Yes. This was exactly the relationship with my mom.

[@francesbernard2445]

My guess is she was the type who believed in keeping her marriage together at all costs or she was while being a single parent looking to you in order to fill all of her ego needs while maybe being pressured to neglect you while others at work were expecting her to be a people pleaser more so than any males there at work for less pay.

[@jcm5171]

Me too.

[@LisaSmith-yb2uz]

Same 😌❤️‍🩹

[@mymelody444-w6j]

That’s me I was obsessed with family my whole life.. being back at home it been a lesson in invisibility and realized these are not my friends it’s toxic attachment

[@onshiplessoceans1675]

Your work here has been so valuable to me. Thank you so much, Jay. You fill in the gaps left by more "popular" therapists who specialize in telling folks what they want to hear but often don't go deeper into what's happening beneath the surface. You break things down clearly, systematically, and thoroughly in ways that satisfy an intellectual hunger for understanding as well as the emotional need for validation and healing. I can't thank you enough, and I will thank you in the acknowledgments page of the book I'm hoping will someday make it possible to afford to work with you or another really good, qualified expert in psychotherapy. Many thanks. Cheers!

[@jcm5171]

I second that!

[@slimyspawntv]

Thank you! I have waited my entire life to hear someone speak with this much clarity about what went on when I was growing up. it’s awesome to know that this type of abuse is becoming more well-known. God bless!

[@MJ-qb5ph]

Also the kid feels responsible for all the self induced drama the narcisst brings home - being fired multiple times, feuds, friendship breakups, relationship breakdown or hysteria and intensity - the kid feels their parent is a victim because the parent plays this to the max

[@freebird189]

Your timing of topics is always somehow magically linked with my life events/ situations 😢 thank you for your videos ❤

[@mores5780]

This man gets it. So many layers. Like how could I love someone who would love me, given my self contempt. Or, how could I allow a good person to love me cause it would be "disloyal" to my family, the role and definition they gave me? Or how could I allow love in, it would feel so wrong? Trying to find faith (new to me) but I can't even allow myself to be forgiven. STUCK, frozen. I don't want this life, but I don't want to be happy, I've never been and it is too scary.

[@rebecca_stone]

Best explanation of the mechanics of the damage I'd experienced, and never understood till now, my early 40s. Why I'd feel physically repelled towards the partners loved me and chose those who replicated the parent who broke my heart. And why I blamed and shamed myself for my family's misery all these years. A great video to help others understand us. Thank you. 💜

[@sugarpuddin]

Cult like programming

[@chaoswitch1974]

This makes sense why my son was able to go no contact at 23, whereas it took me until I was 45 to go no contact with my covert narcissistic mom.

[@theartzscientist8012]

The children are addicted to their parent like an adult to a slot machine

[@こなた-m1o]

yes. oh my god it is so sad. hell on earth when the parent is narcissistic.

[@KaiZen...]

Amazing, thank you for this accurate description and by definition validation of this mind twisting toxic dynamic. surrendering hope was the first major step for me, and still I catch myseld/my inner-child trying to find an alternative solution to this clear and obvious truth (once you finally understand it) thank you. health and healing to all.

[@cory99998]

My mom was never mean or abusive but all of this is exactly true. My childhood was not about me, it was all about her and appeasing her. This continues to this day, so many years later. Any deviation from this results in her having a massive breakdown, or at the very least the fear of it. No one wants to say anything because we dont want to make mom sad.

[@warrenbradford2597]

So, it is harder for the surviving child to leave a relationship with narcissistic parent, because of the feeling they are used to having. It felt they are home whenever they get, "punched in the chin", from another partner. Abuse, like everything else in existence, can addiction in of itself. I, though, is just still stuck with mines for practical reasons. I am still secretly climbing out the narcissistic family system I am trapped in myself.

[@katehampstead6024]

It's good that you are doing it secretly. That way no one can sabotage your progress.

[@larissaroberts2376]

That’s such an interesting comment about it being more difficult to detach from a narcissist parent than a ‘normal’ loving parent. It didn’t matter what I did, I wasn’t important to either of my parents. I have felt like I had to also not pay attention to or share what’s inside me because no one’s interested. I have taken a long time to detach from my parents and, at times, felt shame that feels like being stabbed.

[@nickdesmone]

This is a powerful video. As always - thank You so much for your work, Jay. I feel so much less alone as I move out of the illusion one step at a time

[@ryanc5572]

It's interesting that of all the growing I've been doing, breaking out of the mold my narcissistic father raised me, the more he doesn't want anything to do with me. He liked me more as a kid because I wanted him to be proud of me and appreciate me. The more I am myself, the way I want to be, the less he can control me anymore, and he doesn't like that at all

[@kevinmasterson5733]

I relate so much to what you discussed about having to earn love from people who are unavailable. That is always my relationship with my mother. Although my father was violent, I knew that he love me. My mother did not defend me against the violence, and gave me the message that I must be “good“ in order to be loved by her, and by God. It finally took her getting dementia for me to stop pursuing her love. Thank you so much for all that you do.

[@traweler155]

These insights and descriptions concern myself andy life. I was unable to go to my life because of the scarcity of love from my mother. And here is why. Going my way launches so much fears of abandonment! Even if I am in my 50ies. Childish emotions have not vanished, but have hidden. They were always there in hidden below conscious outer she'll. Now I feel weaker outside, I made much outer effort to cope in life, but the inner difficulties are fresh and vigorously push on me. This logic is insane to the core. It does not allow a free person to thrive in the good environment. But clutches him/er. to the tormentor from past away. Do we need to pay bills for sick bullying parents? With the valuable assets of our life?

[@jcm5171]

I can relate so much...Hope we get away and heal or vice-versa. I am 68 years old and she is 91. This is an unending nightmare. Wishing you well

[@palefireinca]

@@jcm5171 My own father is quite elderly (89), and he is convinced he will live at least another decade. He gives a crap about nothing but talking about the bible to anyone who will listen in the home he is in. I offered to take care of him, but he and my brothers decided otherwise, and the cost of the care facility he is in is literally depleting the estate to nothing. Yet, my brothers feel this is worth not having to care for him day in and out, and perhaps, after reading your story, they are correct. And you're right about it being a nightmare. He always was not relative, but now he is all but insufferable.

[@jcm5171]

@@palefireinca I totally understand, pi. My experience tells me that, even though it sure is senseless and a real shame that your father's care is swallowing up all the estates's worth -- adding insult to injury -- you have been spared something that is UNSPEAKABLE and dangerous. I have been in contact with many other narcissistic parents' survivors and experts and they all agree that keeping as great a distance as one can manage when those parents grow older is absolutely key to avoiding being traumatized and hurt over and over again. My own first cousin and her siblings have arranged for their narcissistic mother to stay at home with special care-givers and each spends one week a month with her: it is awful. Most aging narcs grow worse and worse with age, as they control themselves less and less and use their age to blackmail their children into the grave... Your father is probably getting his narcissistic supply from people in that home, reading the bible and all...let him! Good! Feel assured that not taking him with you was the best thing possible for you. Wishing you the best, my friend. With you; we share the pain. Hello from sunny France.

[@palefireinca]

@@jcm5171 Thank you! I am better off, to be certain. My brothers think they are better off, too. While money can be hard to get, it isn't THAT hard to get. And in my father's case, he truly doesn't deserve to live with me and receive that level of goodness. After a long Gray-pril, it's getting sunnier here in California. The thought of your greetings from sunny France increases my happiness too!

[@sky-son]

You really have to plan your escape and once you get away, get into therapy all the while going no-contact on the narcissist.

[@coffeecactus9483]

Great analysis. So true. Thank you for this video

[@RoughDraftChristianVids]

This makes sense! It explains the need to stop, think, and redirect. Narc parents and people are void of anything but thorns and sticker bushes.

[@carrieeloff2220]

This is sooooo my family. Im ok as the scapegoat but my golden brother is actually worse off and he won't ever see how bad she did him.

[@goodenoughgirl8102]

Well sometimes you are actually just seemingly trapped in their catch 22, double bind circumstantial “after the fact” web even tho inside you’ve already “left” them. I think that would most accurately describe me at this moment. Perhaps soon my externals will finally catch up with my internals. Seems similar to me such as when a woman has “made up her mind” that she is done, that it’s over, no more trying etc…that usually comes before her actually physically leaving a man. There’s really nothing left other than the semantics of trudging through the physical obstacle course that they left in their wake. All I really feel now is annoyed that they have created such an unnecessary labyrinth to have to get past before I can get the heck out of Dodge. It’s harder to leave Bcuz they MAKE it so hard to ever get to leave. Both emotionally at first and then with a myriad of practical difficulties. They’re imo as bad as Pharoah who refused to ever “let my people go.” And Bcuz what control freak despot ever wanted to lose their free slaves? As you know, they had to come down hard and MAKE him let them go or else he’d never let go. I am not at all willing to stay, but the Red Sea has not quite parted for me just yet. And even then Omg how he STILL refused to let go and chased and hunted them down to the very last second. Simply put, the more you try to find your way out, the harder they sink their talons into your neck. It’s so hard Bcuz they make it so hard.

[@kaystephens2672]

Profound statement. "Forced attatchment". I.e. A forced emotional attachment, In other words. And as we carry on this journey to understand our burdens , know that there are many of us who carry this on their backs. It's an invisible burden that we try to conceal to the world. But the narcs and cons see it. And it always comes out in other ways. Look at it this way. If we didn't reach out for knowledge of what we suspect had happened to us, we'd be just as dillusional as they were. And No one ever had the right to make their emotional problems yours too. I now see it in other people, now that I know what to look for. Keep pushing and dont question your mind. Question your family of origin if you're unhappy. It all comes out through persistent work and taking back what always belonged to You. Your right to be Yourself. My heart goes out to everyone here. I'm old, but determined to see the truth of my adopted family's lies. And why they were ever told in the firat place. I'm a scapegoat no more. If there are assets in any form, always consider that first. 😊

[@TheSpiritofBeverlyBolden]

This video was groundbreaking

[@llkellenba]

Not Enough of anything describes the family system I was born into…it’s like being on a starvation diet-surviving extended family continues to interact in this way. Breadcrumbs at best. Not any longer investing in that cold black hole.

[@amberfuchs398]

This was a really great video, Jay! You did such a great job at explaining the dysfunctional dynamics. We can tell you "get it". Thank you for being a voice of reason.

[@spottedfawn639]

Wow... Jay, thank you so much. This was so very much my exoerience. This was so very helpful! It helped me to make sense of so much that I had to pause it and think and come back to the video and I even did some journaling. I want to come back to this and go over it again and do even more thinking and journaling.

[@diatribe5]

I like that idea. I might want to try that myself and see if it helps more.

[@forensicfaithinprofiling]

Dr Jay, at 17 minutes you say we need to surround ourselves w safe, healthy people like it's something easy and magically available. Post Quarantine w the mental state of society being so unhealthy, AND as an almost 58 yr old woman, ... The ONLY healthy person I know is my trauma informed therapist. And I have to pay her to be the healthy support in my life. As for safe survivors groups, theyre infiltrated w unhealthy codependent AND predators. Or let's say hey go out and find new friends in a community, or let's say even considering dating as we older survivors get healthier... At age 57, it gets exhausting to hear you psychologists and psychiatrists tell a much older Survivor to find ourselves healthy friends, and Surround ourselves with safe supportive people. It's impossible Dr. Jay. Can one of you professionals PLEASE address the REALITY of the situation here, instead of this magical thinking-solution, that clearly is unobtainable for certain age groups of survival. Thank you for the consideration of addressing a real issue that cannot easily or comfortably be talked about.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

Well, it's NOT impossible. It does take time and effort but you WILL find good people who arent looking to manipulate or tske advantage of you. Look out for red flags and move on if you see them. Just keep trying. You'll find people. You don't need to find massive groups. Just find 3-4 people to become friends with.

[@moirabijker]

I am a divorced single mother (52) of two young children. I don't have close, real friends and I don't know where to find them. It's much easier for me to isolate and it makes me sad that this is my life.

[@melliecrann-gaoth4789]

@@moirabijker I tell my kids we need be our own best friend.

[@melliecrann-gaoth4789]

@@ASMRyouVEGANyet I hear you, but honestly that is not a reality for many people.

[@amarmrh133]

Im sorry that you suffering that way my heart goes for you and I want to tell you that not only older survivors Who struggling on that issue also other ages are like me im 30 years old and the same thing goes for my sister Who is 23 years I don't even imagine that could happen but maybe I could someday sorry for bad language.with love ❤

[@cc1k435]

I would hope a parent would WANT adult kids who have the ability to survive in the world and make good decisions for themselves. However, as we all know by now, narcissists...😮

[@ep2999]

I think you just answered a huge question for me. Thank you.

[@jreid-heal-narcissistic-abuse]

Glad to help!

[@jacqueslee2592]

Being raised by narcissists, I became emotionally disturbed and have lived with anxiety all my life that now in my 30s I am physically ill. My narcissist parents achieved their goals in that they made me into a failed adult. My father's goal was to make me financially unstable so that I can be homeless and not be able to gain his respect as he weaponizes money to tie my mother to him.

[@Obamas_Nipple]

30 is young, dont give up. Go move somewhere else, start a new life, rub it in your parents face. Im almost 40 and i was stuck living with my parents the last couple years because i went bankrupt. I have severe anxiety, depression, and alcoholism but I got a full time job and worked my ass off so i could get my own place and now it feels like a weight is lifted off my shoulders. When you're at a job, you're not with your parents, its a win win. Tell yourself that YOU are in control of your life, not your parents.

[@catb445]

This really gave me such good insight into understanding my relationships with others and it’s so helpful to know the “why” and make healthy relationships ‘familiar’ even though that may not have been available during childhood. Feeling ‘safe’ in relationships is a very unfamiliar feeling for survivors of narcissistic abuse. Thank you for your support 💜🙏

[@Polina-ji4fe]

I wish someone made a video on narcissistic therapists

[@CoffeeinLa38]

Jay Reid, I am just speechless. This is me and my narcissistic mother. I will check out your website and other info. TY from the bottom of my heart. Therapy failed me many years ago and I was told to ‘get over it. ‘

[@InfiniteMindset99]

You speak to us like a best friend with incredible and useful knowledge! Always outstanding concepts from a stellar professional. Thank you Jay. BTW -love your book.

[@cnair1180]

My mother, dead now, regularly came to my bed at 2 in the morning to tell me she was going to the canal to drown herself. I was then supposed to run into my father and run about for him to go and save her. Of course she never did but got a lot of attention and care from the eight of us. I always knew she would do nothing and when I was 17 and she told me, she was going to the canal, I said okay and went back to bed, told no one. Gave them a lifelong story of how cold and uncaring I was. Yes Jay, guess who was cold and uncaring?

[@mingo2024]

I wasn't allowed to find love outside of my mother. She started telling me when I was 10 yrs old that she was never going to help me with a wedding and that I was too sensitive to be able to handle being married and having a child. She ruined my life and I'm working overtime trying not to hate her because I don't want hate in my heart.

[@crshia]

Really enjoying your book! It is so clearly written and helpful.

[@Greenlionthunder]

That video was VERY helpful. Thank you.

[@kaylaschroeder1]

Very profound video, Dr. Jay. Thank you. You provide many insights and nuances to what happens in the child. Really appreciate you.

[@lillie9641]

Excellent content!!! 👏👏👏👏🌻

[@quynhg4074]

Thank you so much for a great session! It makes things clear for me. I know that my mother is a coverted narcissist, she doesn’t have love to give, but it hard for me to cut and run! Makes total sense!

[@jreid-heal-narcissistic-abuse]

You are so welcome!

[@nyxcole9879]

100% my experience

[@lynettethomas6104]

Thank you Jay. This is very good and has helped me understand some things in my own life and in those of my children. I appreciate your impact and your endeavours to assist other survivors of narcissistic abuse from your own experience as well as from your training.

[@cheslinscheepers2547]

Very interesting, shows how unhealed scapegoats choose partners.

[@streaming5332]

It's also a lot harder when the unloving parent dies than when the loving parent dies. It was straightforward when my Dad went. I knew he cared and I didn't have to pretend I was sad. The mother (the word mum never comes out of my mouth) is very manipulative and killed my love for her a long time ago. Yet I visit her at the nursing home, and have an attachment I wish would go away. I'm dreading her death, the fighting that will ensue and the conflicted feelings. (In fact I have gone 2 months without visiting her now, after a wretched Xmas and the worst heatwave in history)

[@hobbytreyi]

Idk how to be an adult

[@freeandfabulous4310]

I was always very aware how hateful the father was and still is. I often wonder how different I would be if anyone had truly loved me. I have never felt love.

[@juliabegins8312]

I think Tina Turner said that She still was able to create a love life

[@juliabegins8312]

She felt unloved by both parents

[@user-ho3oe2qi6t]

I wish life was fair :(

[@Ariadne76-k3d]

Thank you so much for your videos! You explain things so clearly. And congratulations on the book!

[@NatashaLeah9]

Wow. That was so relatable. Thank you ! That shed light on so much. Sounded like my narcisstic traited father. And my mother was passive and emotionally unavailable. I'm finding it tricky to make new safe friendships. I need to look to where its unfamiliar where I am treated with value and to stop seeking approval from people who disrespect or treat me as less than, not worth it or with gaslighting. I was allowing what I was used to, to repeat in new friendships . I will try again and this time choose those who I do feel valued by. Very helpful. Thank you

[@LotusJohn108]

Im 45 yo man. I have only just dicovered my parents are narcissists. Unfortnately my children are grown and have suffered because im not right. The cycle of abuse rots a family from the inside out 😢. Ive managed to break away from mum and dad but its only been a few weeks. In that time ive been blamed for a sorts of stuff by them, none of which has any reason but self fullfilling behaviour. Myself, my wife and now older children are very much at the begining of our healing journey. I feel s guilty that I have passed some of this abuse on to my wife and daughters, i never meant to hurt them and didnt understand my emotional state until now. Now i am begining to analyse exactly which behaviours they emit that are related to the abuse so i can try to help them heal. There has been substance use, self harming, fits of rage and depression and i have fibro myalgia with chronic pain and fatigue. I now realise it is because of systemic psychlogical abuse. I want to do all i can to heal my life and the people that truly matter within it. I welcome any advice from a fellow survivor of this horrendous and seemingly wel hidden form of abuse?

[@nikdenbak3961]

I hear your pain. Although I have no wife or kids (I've always felt I didn't deserve any love from anyone because of my parents) I can understand what you're saying and sympathise. My dad is a full on NPD and my mum is a covert narcissist as well. My brother and sister have both got their own version of painful baggage so yes, this kind of abuse is awful and usually affects a whole family. Narcissistic abuse is deviously underhanded and unbelievably destructive but it CAN be undone! I have been aware since I was in my teens that something just "wasn't right" about my family. Through reading books and now online stuff I now can see a much clearer picture of the dynamics of my family and how sick it is. Learning about this stuff is a journey and patience is needed, sadly there's no magic button. As a kid I had always been terrified of my narc alcoholic dad and as a survival mechanism I just did as I was told no matter what, always bending over backwards trying to make him happy.....(not possible) Recently I decided to go no contact and when I sent my mum the message (a polite request to respect my boundaries) I was so nervous and actually physically scared!!! I imagined my dad banging on my front door and calling the police or something. This is of course crazy and a learned, forced reaction instead of an appropriate one. I was scared because I was "defying" their authority. I got an email the other day from my dad and the same thing happened. Even just seeing his email in my inbox caused me to get very anxious but I calmed down and then read it. It was just the usual - always either a put down, abuse or telling me what to do. I'm afraid to say that now I've gone no contact my parents might actually get worse because I was a source of narc supply for both of them. An emotional punching bag for my dad and an emotional crutch for my mum. Narcs cannot stand a supply standing up and saying no more which sounds like what you're experiencing. For a little while now I've been suffering from blackouts where I just pass out for a good few minutes for no apparent reason. The doc always says I'm fine physically. It has been very much worse recently and I think it is because I'm trying to undo the programming from my childhood which I have been working hard on and coming to some shocking truths. I'm not trying to scare you but I just want to say that NPD abuse is so damaging to the brain of a child that it can actually affect how the brain grows ie possibly with an oversized amygdala. So with this form of abuse it is not "obvious" to those on the outside but the effects of this over years or even decades can be shockingly destructive. I hope you keep going with your healing. The fact you've recognised faults in yourself related to your parents is a massive incredibly important step. You can keep going with the help of these videos and help from those who are in a similar situation.

[@taraarrington2285]

My mom always says that the reason she bonded with my brother is because she was able to breastfeed him and that she didn't breastfeed me and she was never able to bond with me properly

[@cairosilver2932]

It's hard to leave someone you've never been with

[@noellelake7738]

very helpful. i’m a year and half into recovery and i still need to hear every world of this. thank you.

[@taraarrington2285]

It's kind of like a Stockholm syndrome like I would feel like the parent who is leaving the child if I were to leave my mother because I know how insecure and vulnerable she really is

[@streaming5332]

My brother has Stockholm syndrome. It involves abuse, then the child aligning with the abusive parent.

[@SendItForward]

Oh man...I can soooo relate to "Joseph". But on the gutter cleaning, it is so NOT just a simple nor EASY task! I have to do mine YEARLY and it takes 2 hrs minimum just on the North side (moving the tall ladder itself by myself takes strength and flexibility then cleaning up the mess afterwards. If the dude would have done it himself he would have understood, maybe)! But then again narcissist ALWAYS expect more of others than they do themselves AND when their "expectation" IS fulfilled by the expectee it will either not be sufficient or more will be expected or both. It is a never ending circle of entrapment.

[@twhite8308]

If I don't realize I'm the family scapegoat, or one of them until I'm 65-66, is it possible to revover? The destructive attachment remains even after parent died.

[@jcm5171]

Even after parent died, yes. Yes, it is possible. Your recovery journey will be the same : you don't need the parents to be around at all. Everything you need is inside of you. Wishing you the best!

[@benberkowitz9617]

You are good, it's exactly the way it was

[@izawaniek2568]

This is so true. I can relate to so many things you said. Thank you

[@diatribe5]

I just had another thought about your videos and what I’ve learned so far - in my KZbin feed, suddenly these other therapists have videos about the tendency for some of us to over share. I’ve tried listening to them, but I, and I imagine, many of your subscribers feel more comfortable and in tune with your take on things. I’m hoping that one day soon, you’ll do a video about the subject. I’ve learned from you that it’s best to try to find safe enough people to move on to. Although some of us find even meeting them or better able to recognize whether they’re safe to be enough of a challenge, what I often find is that there are those who are probably safe and worth getting to know, but I find myself sharing my life story, just spilling my guts, to someone I’ve just introduced myself to, and they didn’t ask for all my tmi. I know that it drives them away, because they end the conversation first and I feel like I’ve overstayed my welcome, and never, or rarely hear from them again. I then feel the old familiar rejection and the sadness from that. I’ve just bared my soul to someone new, and then what’s left to know? I’ve probably overwhelmed them, and like with sales, or dating, it’s best to leave them wanting more. But I do the opposite. I have had a most interesting life, and have many interesting stories to tell, but I’m left feeling like they’re bored with me, and that hurts because I’m not boring at all. So with this compulsion, I’ve driven away safe people who could’ve otherwise shown me non toxic dynamics. I imagine I do this because I’m a loner and at my stage of life, don’t get out much. I wish I knew how to curb it. I’ve tried watching videos about it, but these other therapists are harder for me to follow and feel like I’ve gotten the message.

[@LuminesBreezer--]

What he said starting at 7:12 I truly believe is where my constant moments of guilt comes from. I truly believe that he targeted the symptoms of guilt so well there, because it's what I went through for years. That's gotta be it. I really hope I'm right.

[@diatribe5]

I’ve been looking forward to every Friday’s new video. Some resonate more with my experience than others. This one for example, I didn’t find it harder leaving either parent ( neither were loving). However, you articulate everything very well, and I can relate to the tax metaphor. I wonder though if how you explained this dynamic, it might give me some insight into why any insults, rejection, rudeness and negativity seem to stick in my craw more than the positive things like compliments, random acts of kindness and great service do. Like the bad stuff seems to outweigh the good and ruin my mood and I have to remind myself of the positive interactions. I also wonder if some of your topic for this week’s video relate to the human nature of wanting what we can’t have. Like “Joseph’s “ problem of being more drawn to the more difficult woman than the one who he knew was good for him. That old saying about not wanting to join any club that would have one as a member. Perhaps up for a challenge to subconsciously get closure on unfinished business or something like that.

[@Theowlhawk]

Brilliant video. Great healing tips. Surrendering the parent. Reciprocating, Acceptance.

[@greglavine4035]

Thank you Jay this is a mountain of Gold...it appears my ship is finally in the harbor

[@franciscoguevara9727]

In my case me and my siblings all new how unavailable and naricistic one of my parents was. He was a rager, we had to walk on eggshells, no TV was even allowed, it was like having to pretend to be happy doing things that where extremely boring around him, and also the psycological experience of not being able to relax and be our true selves around him. So the attachment figure i had was my mother to a certain degree she was codepdent but capeable of empathy she also, realized my dad didnt care for our happiness or supporting our needs as children so she took that role to buy as christmas presents celebrate birthdays and help us in our social life as kids growing up. My mother obviously had some of her own stuff she hasn't unpacked , which is why she stayed a while with a narcisistic parent, and has her own codepdency issues as woman, and a survivor of a narcisistic mother her. self, and a almost alcoholic father. I was made to live with my dad in a different country to my own where it was systematic abuse on the daily and control, this was psyocoligcally very difficult, i left that house, and returned to my country and drank all the time, as numbing agent to the abuse, that was only intensified when i lifved 2 years alone with the narcisistic parent. After getting sober at age 23 i realized and ofcourse connected that i was a trauma survivor and that what i was trying to numb was the abuse which i always knew i knew living in the a different country and alone with the narc parent impacted me , psycologically. HE was abusive and an asshole, a clssic narc. After getting sober i found support groups that dealt with trauma in my country they're organized in some ways like a 12 step group but they deal with trauma, youll find different types of people there. I wasblessed to find a person who was very trauama informed and empathic enough to hold space for me and my experiences and offer empathy and model self compassion (gentleness ) t o me and healthy boundaries to me , with time i stayted integrating both of these practices and my inner child and true self came out when i started settigmaintaing and following through with boundaries, in my job as well, i felt recconeted to my trueself sesne of self, identity etc. I realized i could be or was or am the loving parent to my inner child and true self that has gentleness healthy boundariess can advocate for my needs and find safe enough people to connect with and get my needs met . Were worth it! . And that being said, since we as kids always new my father was unavailable and narc, im not attracted to narc people , as friends, or as romanic interest if their female. Since i was the scapegoat, and thank Godand my work in attunement i have 4 years in healing from this childhood , i have just understood how selfserving and raining narcs are, there energy feels that way to me, it feels like its all about them, and i just try to choose safe enoguh people who can help me meet my needs, in reciprocal ways, and also, the option to navigate the world who has narc people out there , with civility. distance, and healthy boundaries too, and takingup my space and choosing my safe enough people for my circle playing and having fun here and again. and giving myself permission to nejoy also,without having to be constantly productive all the time, watching things like futbol that i like and chatting up people and pretty chicas in. myarea..... We are worth it ! IThe support groups i have gone. toare helpful and finding my safe enough people in them have been helpful and having helathy boundaries and civility and distance from those who are displaying strong narc traits, anywhow thanks for the video we keep healing by staying gentle and true to ourselves, and feeling our feelings playing and having fun , and giving ourselves permisison to the things we like from time to time. We are worth it . God speed , . With gentleness humor love and respect were worth it .:)

[@AlisongsLA]

Thank you, Jay. This is so relevant in my life. ❤

[@Zarathustran]

For a split second I couldn't remember if the iron maiden illustration on your thumbnail was a reference to something real or only a metaphor. To Google and oh yeah that was definitely real. Interesting that I'd forgotten.

[@MeCynthiaAnn]

WOOOOOOW….. this makes so much sense now I understand why some of this happened with my kids.

[@booginas]

THANK YOU 🙏🏾 SO MUCH for this exposition on this particular facet of relationships between narcissistic parents & their children. I am leaving my narcissistic parents in a month & even though I've made up my mind I'm going to go ahead & do it, I have misgivings & bouts of anxiousness of "What if I fail --- AGAIN 🤦🏾‍♂️." Cuz I have left 3xs B4, but betrayal by a friend & once by a boyfriend forced me to have to come back. And one time I was out doing alright for myself, but I was feeling lonely cuz I was hundreds of miles away in a new state with no friends. I'm an only child, so my parents are the only people I've been close to aside from maybe 10 other people in my life consisting of friends & boyfriends & every single one of those relationships involved betrayal and/or neglect on their part. I say all that explain WHY I felt so alone. Basically, without my parents @ any given point in my life, I always felt I had no one else. So the 1st time I got away in my late 20s & struck out on my own for the first time but was feeling extremely isolated, though I never expressed this to my mom cuz her being abusive was the reason I left when the opportunity presented itself & I didn't want her to see me as weak. But she started being nice to me when we would talk on the phone not long after I left, saying how she missed me. I thought she had genuinely changed, & because I was so lonely, I decided to come back home & "coincidentally" I became deathly ill right at the time they came up to help me move back. My mom accused me of faking how sick I was because I was too ill to help them put my stuff in the car, even though I had a 104 temperature 🌡️, was completely soaking the bed with my sweat ever 20mins, etc. On the way home I told her I think I need to go to the hospital 🏥 & we were staying at a hotel at a casino overnight & then we were gonna start home again. She didn't want to leave & shorten her "good time" & told me it wasn't "THAT 🙄" bad. I told her I'll just drive the remaining 500 something miles home myself, even though I was delirious & near to passing out. It was only THEN she relented & took me up the road to a hospital where I stayed for the next 8 days until they determined what I had was "Walking Pneumonia.". The nurse who admitted me told me if AI had waited another day, I more-than-likely would have been dead ⚰️. Basically, looking back sometime after the incident, I realized the ONLY reason my mother took me to the hospital 🏥 is cuz if I had died driving myself home, people would have wondered why she didn't take me to the hospital immediately & that would have msde her look like a bad mother. And the fact she didn't care --- NOT that she didn't believe I was sick cuz there was no way I could fake the sweats, the coughing, & the fever or the distended belly 🫃🏾 --- that I was sick when I 1st told her should have told me how twisted she is. But, having dealt with that from her all my life, I just accepted that as "That's just how Mom is 🤷🏾‍♂️." I said all that to say that living in such cognitive dissonance all my life up until that point & even now, has made it hard for me to leave, cuz soon as you make up your mind to leave, a narcissist will act nice & make you think, "Well, maybe it's not THAT bad." Then soon as you think things are OK, they show their ass again & then you say "I can't take it anymore" and it's this never ending yo-yo. Plus my parents have financially sabotaged me to make it to where I couldn't leave due to lack of funds. But I'm doing it anyway, & this time I'm not telling them. I'm packing 🧳 on secret & I'm gonna leave when they're not home to avoid them putting doubts in my mind & starting and argument. Anyway, your video gave me the resolve to REALLY "do it" & leave cuz I have been perpetually anxious about leaving & stepping into the unknown. I'm going to stay with someone I have never met in person, but we have been friends for 4yrs now. I have fear around that cuz of me being betrayed by a friend I stayed with the last time I left home. But I have resolved NO MATTER WHAT I am leaving cuz the fear of giving up however much life I have left to my narc parents, after having already given them the 1stv43yrs of my life is scarier than escaping & going into the unknown where they can no longer control me. Again --- THANK YOU 🙏🏾.

[@AlyssaMoise-n8k]

Hello Jay, I just want to let you know all of these videos have helped me so much. It has put life into a different view and made me feel less alone and less crazy.

[@PassionateFlower]

Parents cause mental illness in their children. Parents are the cause of mental illness. If your child has mental illness, it is your fault. If you have mental illness, it's your parents fault. Your parents are to blame for your mental illness and/or addiction. Yes they are. No. It's not your child's fault they are suffering from mental illness. No. It is not your fault that you are suffering from mental illness, it's your parents fault. Blame your parents for your mental illness. Because your parents behavior and choices determine your ACE score. The higher your ACE score, the higher risk of prevalence of mental illness and addiction you will subsequently face.

[@diatribe5]

I had to look up what this ACE score thing was. While I agree that bad parenting most likely screws the survivor’s mental health up, to play devil’s advocate, there are also cases of inherited mental illness. That aside, yep, I’d definitely be better adjusted if my parents treated me like a human being. To quote the movie Pump Up The Volume, “ You’re not screwed up, you’re an unscrewed reaction to a screwed up situation.”

[@sixtysense]

Thank you Jay. It makes so much sense and really helped me a lot to understand myself better in recovery.