Why it's still a good idea to buy a Porsche 911 991 | Depreciation & Buying Guide

[@wjohnsonism]

Perfect timing. I’m looking at the 997.2 or a 991’s both manuals. So far, the 997.2 felt raw, and slightly less refined. The 991 felt updated, fresher and more modern. The manual 991 was very user friendly especially cruising on the highway in 7th.

[@DoctaM3]

Wow. Strong analysis. Thanks.

[@jrthemaverick2361]

Your timing is perfect for this update. I’ve looked at your analyses of 911’s and the Boxster/Cayman cars. I’ve been zeroing in on the 991.1 and find this update compared to the 2019 analysis very enlightening. Thanks for all of the work on these cars. I’m sure your work has been a great help to people looking to buy a great sports car. Have a happy, healthy and prosperous 2021!

[@DioguardiAS]

I have an 8000 mile 2014 for sale.

[@BeauKnowsMultifamily]

you are my favorite car channel by far

[@fourwheeltrader]

Thanks!

[@BeauKnowsMultifamily]

@@fourwheeltrader I have a 991.1 S with 47K miles. I bought it 3 years ago for $70K with 34K miles. It is probably worth $60-63K today. I recently slapped a 5 year extended warranty on it from Porsche, which is transferrable or can be cashed out pro-rata. I plan to trade it in for a 991.2 Turbo S this year so I'm really hoping you do a video on the Turbo markets for 991.1 and 991.2 also.

[@f1dog]

I'm so glad I watched this because I just purchased a 2013 991 base model and they were tough to find and were selling fast. Thanks for the video!

[@georgenico6496]

Dude, this is awesome. Thank you! Can't wait to see if these claims make sense again next year.

[@BrianCorin]

Great video and analysis. I watched the video last year and it helped me in my decision to pull the trigger in an 991.1, so glad I did!

[@pabbip9]

I would love to see a video on cars to buy that you think will hold value or even go up for the next X amount of years. I think it would be a great video and if anyone can do it with the correct data it would be you!

[@rubenfavors5977]

I really enjoy your price analysis. Helps me think about things before I buy a vehicle.

[@KE57REL]

Great analysis - I used your data when picking up my Manual 997.2 C4S - would be great to see a revisit on your 997 video one year on as well!

[@paulg2990]

Yes! Would love to see a similar update regarding the 997 market. Especially between the roof types/base/S

[@iand8548]

great vid! love the graphs you used on this for the comparisons and trends.

[@mrcake8]

It’s crazy how I was thinking about this video last night

[@robb9218]

Fantastic video! I know it is a smaller market but would love to know how the GTS models were impacted as well.

[@fourwheeltrader]

I will make a similair video for the GTS at some point.

[@ramy5822]

@@fourwheeltrader - I second that, would love to see this for the gts

[@Juansvids]

Great Video. I bought my 991 S Cab wayyyy under market. im very happy.

[@amintaslneto]

Love your channel. Please talk more about the Carrera T in future videos. Thx

[@Bigleefish]

Another excellent analysis. I think you should look at the 911 Turbo and Turbo S markets (across all model years). In the UK, there is a huge drop from new but the middle cars 997 and 991 have gone too far and will increase. Almost all of the performance of new for a fraction of the money. That will be a very interesting analysis and will open up a segment to a lot of people.

[@fourwheeltrader]

Thanks for the suggestion. There is avideo about the Turbo and Turbo S on the channel but it could use an update.

[@johnwariner3181]

Thanks Harald, absolutely brilliant video and consistently exceptional KZbin channel.

[@AtypicalDriver]

I'm feeling quite lucky I bought my 991.1S two years ago now. Only time this has happened in my life though. :)

[@JulienFruchier]

Just discovered your analyses. Love your channel and would LOVE to see you analyze the CRAZY 993 market. Please!

[@fourwheeltrader]

Great to hear that you like the channel.

[@101wrf]

I just got a 2015 911 turbo. Specialty cars like turbos/GTS/GT3/Targa depreciate even less than 911 or 911S, and at 4-5 years+ age the big depreciation hit has already been taken. Furthermore it's easy to find one with low miles and a history of regular servicing. My 5+ y.o. car feels almost brand new! And $50k below MSRP! Furthermore difference between 991.1 turbo and 991.2 turbo is minimal, unlike 991.1 vs. 991.2 991 and 991 S which has a whole new engine.

[@cardezvous2879]

Can you do a video on the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X in the USA

[@hoffa2586]

I am interested in buying my first Porsche 911. I’d love your thoughts on the best 2015 and up 911 manual shift 2wd with the lowest cost of ownership (including maintenance and depreciation). Where is the sweet spot between lowest cost and most enjoyable experience. I value reliability and don’t want to deal with lots of surprise repairs. After watching several of your videos I think it may be the 911.1 2016. Your thoughts?

[@kirkericson2722]

There are several things going on that have led to rising 991 prices beyond the COVID used car price surge. First and foremost, PCNA has had a stop sale in effect for the 991.1 with sport chrono since the 4th quarter of 2020. Supply has shrunk (only non-porsche dealers have been allowed to sell these cars, as they are not affected by the stop sale), and prices have risen accordingly. Production of the 992 has been way less than expected due to supply chain/shipping issues, leading to fewer people trading their 991s in for the newer model (again reducing inventory and raising prices). Lastly, as time has gone on, more people are valuing the 991.1 as the last "NA" 911, causing a value spike for these models. Similarly, not everyone (even those who like turbocharged 911s) is in love with the 992 for a variety of reasons. I tried one out and while it was stupendously fast, just didn't have the same magic as either the 991.1 or .2.

[@seandenny1553]

I bought 991.1 911s convertible 81k with all options or 7 buttons. Still a tough car to find. 39k miles

[@gabrielalonso4619]

Thank you for your job, Greetings from Spain.

[@TheKillWizard]

Can you do a 911. 991.1 targa.

[@RalphBehrPA]

Can you do an analysis comparing the five year cost of ownership of a 2021 Porsche 911 4S Cabriolet (MSRP $154,850) vs a 2021 Porsche 4S Targa (MSRP $164,800) ?Thank you

[@kirkericson2722]

maintenance and running costs will be identical (same engine, drivetrain, both have 4wd). Both the Targa top and the cabrio top can be expensive to fix if they break out of warranty. However, the Targa is on another planet when it comes to depreciaition. Simply put, it depreciates even less than the GT3 in many cases. Case in point, the average listing price for a 2015 Targa is currntly around $100K. 4S cabriolets from the same year are at least 20k less on average. Obviouly, it all depends on the spec and condition of the car, of course.

[@kreepycrawley6713]

Great video, could you cover the 911 50th edition in due course? Thank you!

[@zendejasben]

How about looking at the Targa version? Since those are more rare, what does their depreciation curve look like?

[@atlasrex]

How about the 2021 Targa 4 snd targa 4s? Dealers are asking for around $100,000 premium for the Heritage model Targa 4s despite it selling for $40,000 above the same targa 4s - and not much different other than side decals and some badges. Impossible to get an allocation currently for a Targa from dealers - even harder than a 911 Boxster or coupe. I own a 2022 Targa 4 and the dealers told me it was a i stake to not buy the 4s because of demand. Even though in 2019 the last time they offered Targas there were only 14 of the targa 4 sold compared to Targas 4s and targa GatS that sold over 500 cars. The 4s is priced about $18,900 more than the targa 4 - for around 60 more hp - the cars are identical otherwise. Some difference in options offered- only 4s can order a manual and rear steering - anyway / Targas seem more rare than the other two models and is the targa 4 more costly than the targa 4s to buy? Are all Targas trading up in value from msrp and if so by how much?

[@fourwheeltrader]

Good idea for a video

[@cssamlau]

Can you do an analysis on 996 turbo? I saw that that asking prices went up a lot in 2020. Please let us know if this is just the dealers jacking up the price or the public is starting to realize the value of this model. Especially, I am looking for a 996 911 turbo with manual shift, X50 Power pack and ceramic brakes. Thank you.

[@glenn3350]

Please make a video of 991.1 4S vs 991.2 4S

[@Get10Yards]

This is a really interesting breakdown. I enjoy watching you looking at the market by values and statistic numbers. Do you not think the price staying stable, once you remove the new car price drops on the 991.2, is just due the factory not producing as many 992 replacement models? The factory has been shut down on and off during the pandemic. People want the newer 992 but can't get it so the 991 is available second hand? Great Video. As you say it's a strong second hand market that could fade away when the world returns to normal.

[@fourwheeltrader]

I think that is indeed one of the main reason for the stable prices.

[@fourwheeltrader]

*Which car would you like to see analysed next?*

[@mcw5318759]

I found it very interesting comparing the 991 market analysis from a year ago as you had not done this way it in the past. It would be great if you could update 911 991 analysis once a year to see how the market changes.

[@robb9218]

Audi S4 2013 - 2019

[@KyleBrightman]

Thanks 4WT, great as always. What about doing an entry-level performance car like VW Golf R (or R32) or Focus RS (or ST)?

[@josherau]

I would be interested to hear your opinion on if the manufacturing shutdowns/delays created by COVID may have impacted the values of the older cars...

[@digitalgulby]

How about BMW M2

[@MAK100]

Brilliant, had to watch it twice to keep up! What is your view on the 991.2 4S market.? Thanks

[@bullseyedentremoval]

I hope there’s plans to put all this data into a shopping website. I’ve been hoping for something like this

[@fourwheeltrader]

I'm working on it

[@digitalgulby]

Thanks for doing my research for me!

[@ocalaeyeguy]

Could you please summarize your analysis and tell us what to buy..... That’s all people really want to know

[@glimaboston]

I think it was pretty clear from the video. Don't buy the newer cars (2019 mainly). Everything else you will either not lose money or lose only slightly.

[@lmaosushi]

Love the update videos! Can you do one for the AMG GTS?

[@scotturich]

I think what’s happening is the NA cars are holding value because you can’t get them anymore vs turbo based cars with all of them being turbo now

[@fourwheeltrader]

But what about the 911.2 ?

[@MrSchn3ll]

Great analysis, my prediction is that the 991 cars will stay strong for years due to the fact that the 992, while great, is not that much of a leap over the 991.2. I drove one recently and I couldn't even come close to justifying spending $50k more than my 2018 Carrera T. Same engine and roughly the same experience, just a nicer interior and a nip/tucked exterior. I think that the 992 will be a price point that's not attainable for most and the 991's both NA and turbo cars will stay in very high demand due to their history, reliability, performance, etc. It's a car you can't go wrong with regardless of the trim level! Plus it's getting harder and harder for find true sports cars with manual transmissions. It would be a great analysis in a few years to look at manual vs. PDK 911's. The 997 turbo manual cars are already demanding a big premium...

[@ahmedvorajee2430]

Is it a good idea to buy one using my car allowance?. I’m thinking as a company car and daily driver.

[@RevYourMind]

Would appreciate a 2017 + Panamera Turbo videl

[@guner7777]

Lol, the youtube algorithm can hear me thinking. I'm currently looking at second market of 2012-15 carrera S (and 4S but not a fan of the straight left to right backlight).

[@pengstang]

Thanks for the sharing again! Would a 2012 997.2 4S PDK Coupe around 32k mileage at $65k a good buy? Thanks.

[@asche1016]

any research on values between the 991.1 naturally aspirated vs 991.2 turbo engine?

[@fourwheeltrader]

I don't have a specific video on that yet. It's planned though :)

[@Keano04JCW]

Great videos. You should offer a car buying service where you compare two cars depreciation to help a prospective buyer decide between two cars they are considering.

[@lefuedebout]

Interesting and informative video, as usual. However, I'm not thinking of buying a Porsche but I'm undecided between a 1-year-old McLaren GT and an Aston Martin DB 11. Which, in your opinion, is most likely to lose most value over 3 years.' Thanks.

[@fourwheeltrader]

I don't have a video yet about the GT, but you can find the rates for the DB11 in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/np_XZ4xpdr6rhZI

[@mujahidsalah]

So I'm buys a 2012 Carrera S with 59000 KM , full options, mint condition and still under warranty, however it finishes july 2022 ... the owner is asking around 65,000 dollars. My question once the warranty is over (10 years) would that drop the price a lot in the future ?

[@mujahidsalah]

Note it's a second car and i will probably drive it less than 5000 KM a year

[@mujahidsalah]

And is the car worth this price?

[@peterroberts9835]

Interesting videos! I would be interested if you have invested in any cars and if so which ones and why

[@alxbl324]

A BMW M5 analysis would be cool.

[@yanezdavid]

Can you make a video for the last generation Viper?

[@ahmedvorajee2430]

Forgot to add a nearly new or used one

[@na_wu]

Is this a good time to buy 991 automatic? Or your analysis is manual only? I am a little confused.

[@mateocarino]

How do you collect all the datas?

[@RNMAutomotiveAddiction]

Great analysis - what are your thoughts on Carrera T values as that is what I purchased recently.

[@Michael_p_shea]

Can you do an analysis Audi RS5? Thanks!

[@enrarc4062]

Could you please do another analysis for the 991.2 GT3? :)

[@fourwheeltrader]

I recently posted a gt3 special. That includes an update on the 991.2 market.

[@StronthPL]

How Covid change the car market? Can You do the analysis? :)

[@fourwheeltrader]

This is a good start but it requires an update: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZiWhXqKjdd2rtU

[@Highway18]

Lack of new 2021 cars ie C8 and 911 have inflated used years. Once inventory catches up, so will depreciation ;-)

[@shivang15]

I will give you a challenge: find a Porsche which actually goes up in value and data is statistically significant. No super expensive ones please.

[@BRAINFxck10]

Porsche 912 and 964 RS America

[@flytz311]

Have you done analysis on Porsche 997 GT3?

[@fourwheeltrader]

Check out the gt3 special: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5bUoZSleLath9E

[@982evo]

Awesome video. Possible to revisit the 458 market?

[@fourwheeltrader]

Good idea

[@cornbreadque]

Great video as usual! Have you done analysis of Panamera?

[@fourwheeltrader]

Not yet but i'm getting many requests for it.

[@cjsnylons]

Have you done an analysis on the F80/F82 M3/M4 market?

[@fourwheeltrader]

M4 analysis: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p160i4iCicyMga8

[@thebusinessend1]

991 42 2013?

[@IchbinsPogo]

Hey! Awesome video! What software do you use for your analysis and how do you get your data? Would love to do the same for europe, but data like this is very hard to get here :D

[@fourwheeltrader]

I do all my analyses in Python. There are some older videos about the European market on my channel. Planning to make a few new ones for europe.

[@piotergudrinovicproduction11]

Excellent!!! Thank you

[@richardhung3878]

I see that the cars that you mainly do analyses on are European cars (understandable since you are living in Europe), and you start doing analyses on American cars which is good too, but how about JDM? I think many people like to see analyses on the legendary JDM like Type Rs, Evo, STi, S2000, etc.

[@fourwheeltrader]

I would love to do more JDM cars. They just require more work because i'm less familiar with them.

[@ashman0071]

because it doesn't have a 400 pound mass damper over the front axle - and, if I need to explain that to you......

[@sradical8136]

Porsche macan s please. Awesome analysis!!

[@mos342]

Well it’s no 911 but I think the curve will flatten a bit after 6 years but keep depreciating like an x3 would

[@jeremyn6726]

Can you take the same approach toward Ferrari 458?

[@fourwheeltrader]

Got a few requests for an update video on that market.

[@alexcox7204]

Do you think this reflects the market in the UK?

[@fourwheeltrader]

Difficult to say without analysing the UK market. RHD markets can be (but are not per definition) quite different from LHD markets.

[@rsaikali11]

I’m considering waiting for new targa gts in manual vs pdk. How do you think that will impact depreciation after 5 years?

[@puffpio]

Is there enough data for GTS trims?

[@fourwheeltrader]

GTS video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ql6ThZaVjtZ6jtk

[@miguelberetta7887]

I mean, haven't all car prices increased?

[@milootje007]

Honestly, 992 models just don't look as good as the 991 models... they look(ed) more pure to me

[@andytaylor2321]

Same can be said how the 997 seem more pure than the 991

[@milootje007]

@@andytaylor2321 Mechanically i agree. Look-wise i think they nailed it with the 991 models..

[@paull3179]

991 does look the best and the interior is great. The new ones looked too dressed up as though they got some hints from Lincoln or Audi.

[@milootje007]

@@paull3179 Agreed.

[@johnfarris5439]

Life of Palos brought me here!

[@docmarc36]

458 Speciale???

[@chris-eccohealthcare]

I think most petrol heads would prefer the NA of the 991.1

[@alexroberts1801]

Would be interesting to see if the 991.1 manual is any more sort after then the auto. This being the last NA manual Carrera model.

[@fourwheeltrader]

I didn't see a difference in the data. For all 911 models which come with the pdk, it is difficult to spot a premium for the manual.

[@chrishatzikokolakis3608]

Porsche Macan S please

[@calinlupu2786]

I purchased a 2018 Carrera T in september from Stuttgart factory dealer, low milage, like new condition. I was looking at your depreciation videos before and after I got the car, but unfortunately you dont say nothing about the T model. My hope is that the value of the car will be stable in 2021 and probably in 2022 I wont lose much money when I intend to sell it to get a 2 years old 992. Maybe you can add something about the T model, which should be between base and S model.

[@fourwheeltrader]

I get many requests for the T. Unfortunately, there are very few for sale which makes the analysis difficult.

[@calinlupu2786]

@@fourwheeltrader Yes, there are few, but few for sale should be better value over time. If I want to buy one now, from Porsche pre-owned inventory, a similar one to mine is about 5k more expensive.

[@frankly5171]

I would pick the 992 anytime. Significant improvements in performance, interior, design. The 991/997 look dated especially the interior looks archaic.

[@brandonmulford5524]

I find my 991.1 to be very attractive, most people who do not intrinsically know Porsche have no idea it's not the newest model. I also don't feel the driving experience to be dated in any way. Yes, the infotainment isn't new but it works fine.

[@paull3179]

I prefer the look of my 991.1 S cab. I just don't like a dressy 911 with the smooth rounded back end and the toothpick shifter and digital guages.

[@bimmercodetutorials5975]

🔥🔥

[@bneyens]

911 factory shut down, limiting supply

[@keithprice6581]

991.First

[@achristian7015]

ALL (99.9999%) of cars depreciate, especially when bought new.

[@niacal4nia]

Because in the future, these cars can be converted into EVs.

[@richtagg7771]

The 991.1 3.8 engine is so much better than the new turbo engines.

[@janlongeval931]

please stop adding these sound effects, it’s unbearable

[@dodgehemi5045]

inflation Joe bumped prices up $10k

[@naturalstupidity]

Non Turbos