Why Rivals Players Hate This

[@atWisely]

Guys. Comparing characters isn't bad, simplifications help people learn! I literally go over good comparisons in the video I just want the comparisons to actually be useful 😭

[@shallotwater2399]

Dan changed how Wrastors Side Special works again, you have to hit your opponent now, it doesn’t activate on shield anymore

[@MonoFlax]

*finishes the video* First recommended video: "Why Fox and Garfield are almost the same Character" - Wisely

[@atWisely]

I've been waiting for someone to point this out

[@thattubaguy217]

​@@atWiselySo are you gonna explain it then or just be a hypocrite?

[@atWisely]

Yeah, sure. One video explores how we compare characters through gameplay and aesthetic design, and the other is about variations on the space animal character archetype. Which you would know if you watched either of them

[@DucksAndCatnip]

@@atWisely 🔥

[@d3lta_p]

I used to think I was immune to fgc-platfighter divide discourse but when some ult players started calling Kazuya a shoto something inside me died

[@MrDrumStikz]

Same. It's a weird mistake for Smash players to make considering the fact that they know special cancelling is a mechanic shotos have and Kaz does not.

[@cyprienramis1304]

Did you know that Luigi is the nearest thing to a Shoto outside of Ryu and Ken in ult (just a random discussion I had with myself at night to find which character respected the biggest numbers of required moves)

[@SuperDominicS]

I thought it was mostly categorized due to the character style (auto turnaround, input moves) and not necessarily game series

[@lowlink534]

I mean, he has the command inpiut moves that only shotos had somehow, plus he's a super polarizing (aka hated) character, so it's not like people are going out of their way to be understanding to him and Tekken players, quite the opposite 😂🎉

[@lowlink534]

​@@MrDrumStikzLmao I didn't even knew that, thanks for pointing that out, it's not like he needs it (maybe it would make him even more hated and polarizing?)

[@gravityvertigo13579]

Agreed!! Samus and Falcon aren't the same because they're both space bounty hunters who jump!!! It's actually because of their up tilts

[@tangerinepaint3643]

ngl I don’t remember the last time I’ve seen a falcon use up tilt

[@gravityvertigo13579]

@tangerinepaint3643 I think... maybe they use it in the ditto? Or at least they used to

[@seabass64]

and dash attack

[@spicetea4060]

Talking about Street Fighter characters like Smash players know who those are.

[@atWisely]

Time to get cultured

[@LS95774]

Bro thinks we don't know Ken Masters is from Fatal Fury 💀 /s

[@cbuckington2933]

to be totally honest... I feel like this is actually healthy and important. Contrary to your point it really does convey what a player has to expect from the character when fighting them. This does not include a gameplan or their approachoptions, but rather how the vibe of that character is. Saying Kragg is like DK immediately shows that this character is cheesy, heavy, kills early with smashattacks, and probably has a cargo throw... saying absa (my rivals1 main) is like pikachu mixed with zelda and mewto tells someone that they are a floaty with bursty movement options, probably an annoying projectile and either a reflect or really early killing aerials.

[@MrGameguyC]

That's what I'm saying.

[@lordmew5]

No, it's not, and you should feel bad. Especially when in good platform fighting games, character archetypes really break down.

[@grandphantoon1334]

@@lordmew5lmao dude get over it

[@jackhammer4499]

@@cbuckington2933 You have a point, but the problem is it tends to be a very incomplete picture at best. Like, you can't play Kragg like DK and expect it to work out, for example, and when you compare them and stop there, you risk giving people that idea.

[@jackhammer4499]

@@lordmew5 You should feel grass

[@dr_ill]

So my takeaway is that Beowulf is basically Incineroar.

[@atWisely]

Yes

[@JacintoshPLUS]

I HAVE BEEN SAYING ORI IS THE FALCON OF RIVALS FOR YEARS, FIRST TIME IVE EVER HEARD SOMEONE ELSE MENTION IT THANK YOU WISELY!!!!!!

[@captainjumptoast]

Wisely says that because Dan himself made the comparison. That was intentionally part of his design.

[@atWisely]

I'm pretty sure it was Trevor, but yeah! Most Rivals players see the similarities, but folks from Smash are shocked when I mention it

[@Beastmd]

Can confirm😂 I thought he was gonna say maypul until he mentioned bair

[@666blaziken]

As an ori main, I've been saying this too. Ori is such an awesome character (to use)!

[@Saskaruto16]

Honestly I thought everyone knew that lol. It's super obvious when you've played both.

[@SaturnFTL]

To play devils advocate, because you're technically correct - I think it's important to point out that when people draw these aesthetic comparisons, eg like Absa being Mewtwo + Pika + Zelda, they are drawing connections to the most iconic parts of those characters. Mewtwo's Nair and dj is the only thing Absa really has, sure, but those are some of the most iconic parts of mewtwo's kit. Same with Zelda kicks and Pika's upB. If La Reina had just Incineroar's uair shared between them, nobody would be drawing the comparison, just like how people aren't drawing the bounty hunter comparison between Samus and Falcon because that isn't nearly Falcon's most standout attribute. Now, if you made a ripped future racecar driver man and gave him voicelines like "Yeasz" and "Comeawn", then people would probably make that connection. Same with the Wrastor Falco comparison - if one of the first impressions a new spectator sees of Wrastor is a bird with a Brooklyn accent saying "Too Easy" on his winscreen, people are going to draw valid comparisons. This reminds me a bit of when there was backlash for when Xmen characters were confirmed to not be in MVC Infinite, and Peter Rosas of Capcom was quoted as saying that it was actually fine, because there were mechanically similar characters that would be featured in the game instead, and that characters were ultimately nothing but functions. People generally didn't like hearing that because character identity and aesthetics are very important, and not just a naive first impression. I know there are Falco players out there who will gravitate towards Wrastor not because they're looking for a combo heavy glass canon with a lockdown projectile, but because they want to play the cocky bird character.

[@rosheafan]

Falco is one of my favorite fictional characters, I love me a cocky bird. Wrastor being this like, Jigglypuff Marth with Mach Tornado is just icing on the cake.

[@ellie8272]

A falco main will play Wrastor for 2 games and then say "wait this bird is lame" and then play Ranno

[@lordmew5]

Ok, but all I'm hearing is that those people are degenerates and should be moved out of the scene. Characters should be functions, not aesthetics.

[@Helagandshunter]

@@ellie8272fr, falco is fun. wrastor kinda just isnt.

[@TheMacroShow]

But hear me out: I would pay top dollar for a Wrastor skin with a red motorcycle helmet and yellow scarf 👀

[@petrikillos]

WDYM orcane is clearly Knack 2 combined with Omori, from super sonic fighters kerfuffle

[@seldomseenkid_61]

knack is back baybee

[@luckii_shots]

KNACK 2 BABYYYYYY

[@Ghosted143]

ayyy knack shoutout

[@micahrobbins8353]

Hmm... quadrupedal. Paws. A focus on trappy projectiles... Duck Hunt clone right?

[@ubl7358]

This discussion is timeless and hilarious Wrastor is nothing like Falco, though the aesthetic would have you think otherwise. Visuals absolutely matter to bring people to a character - I started playing Forsburn because of the visuals after all. But to say that one character PLAYS like another is a misnomer, especially for Rivals Character Design Philosophy Most of the Rivals cast are amalgamations of various ideas, not one singular 1:1 identity swap because Dan likes to jam way too many cookies into one jar. It's disingenuous to try to put any of them in strict baskets like "Zetter is Wolf" because of these design philosophies Smashers will NEVER beat the "I only have played Super Smash Brothers" allegations

[@GameRock06]

Orcane is literally Vaporeon

[@guitaroach]

Damn, that's a deep cut. Shoutouts to Smash Land.

[@De_an]

+2

[@PalPlays]

"In..." If you know you know.

[@danielbarnes1241]

Yeah but Vaporeon never had a moveset in a non rpg and the games anime damn sure doesn't make use of it either lol

[@De_an]

@@danielbarnes1241 It's a reference to Super Smash Land, a fangame made by Dan Fornace in 2015, whose source code is what the original Rivals of Aether is built upon. Vaporeon was a playable character in that game, and Orcane is pretty much just an expanded version of that Vaporeon moveset.

[@Awesomeness-iz3dh]

Augh, this is literally my number one pet peeve right now. I saw someone call Kragg "Donkey Kong mixed with Minecraft Steve" the other day and it took 5 years off my lifespan.

[@atWisely]

I started hearing the Steve comparisons after already recording everything or that 100% would've made it in here 😭

[@jackhammer4499]

Kragg came first, is the funniest part. I get that Kragg can create... rectangular additions to the environment, but that is literally where it ends.

[@Orion_Mr.Starlight]

Also, as a platform fighter character, kragg predates Steve by several years.

[@l.n.3372]

​@@Orion_Mr.Starlight But DK predates Kragg by many years. Wouldn't it be fine, then, to say that some Kragg moves are inspired by DK, too?

[@jackhammer4499]

@@l.n.3372 Yeah, but the problem is boiling an entire character down to "Absa is Zelda" or "Kragg is DK" and acting like that's all a character is, and that the developers are just ripping off Smash, or that new players can play the characters exactly the same and hope to succeed. (Not saying that's what you're doing, only that there are people who do that.) Kragg's specials are entirely different from DK, and they contribute to a much better recovery and (at least to me) easier combo game, for instance.

[@wubbiq]

wrastor is just a clone of falco (incorrect, dismissive, negative) vs oh my god absa has zelda kicks but with DJCs that so cool (factual, engages in further thought, laudatory)

[@atWisely]

Unironically yes. You fit my entire video in one comment

[@FungiWizard]

Me when smash players call La Reina an Incineroar rip off when Incineroar is literally playable at an incredibly high quality catered towards the Rivals gameplay in Rivals 1 Workshop and neither of those two mods play the same 😭😭

[@riley5306]

I’ve always thought absas move set was based off ness tech from melee but I’ve never seen anyone mention this. She can place a hit box anywhere on stage and she can stretch that hit box to herself (like ness yo yo glitch) she can also put a hit box on her self as she runs at her opponent (much like ness jacket) and she has the double jump cancel stuff , there’s gotta be some kind of inspiration there

[@atWisely]

I've never heard the comparison to the yoyo and jacket glitch, but honestly I think you've got something here even if it wasn't intentional

[@GabrielAidley]

I also made the cloud thunder and yo-yo glitch connection in my head but never told anyone cus I figured someone had said it before

[@thattubaguy217]

"Why does a small game in a small niche genre get compared to the one game every single person in the genre has played before?" Idk man, that truly is a stumper Every single person who has played rivals has played smash bros. The opposite is not true. So when you're experiencing something new for the first time, your mind makes connections anywhere they can off of the most coincidental evidence. "Hey these two birds share a move or two and have the same vibes" is enough of a valid reason to equate them with each other

[@HonkHonkGoose776]

so thats why i feel a deep hatred in my soul whenever i get hit by ori up air

[@anomaletix]

W ori

[@shivernaut8607]

"if you're gonna compare someone to another character, at least choose the right character" this, not even just about rivals, just in general. annoying af.

[@bodyofwater99]

Wisely is the ESAM of rivals.

[@nicocchi]

The only thing Wrastor has in common with Falco is being a cocky bird dude who is a flying ace. And a back air. It's almost like being a furry conveys a lot about your character just from the species of animal you chose

[@Irish_Enderman]

As a Smash player who has played a good amount of Rivals 1, I don't understand this comparison at all, I love playing Flaco and hate Wrastor, which would make no sense if they were so similar

[@Darkgun163]

This has been the hardest thing to try to get our local Smash players to work through, especially since a comparison is a strong jumping off point for explaining how a character feels to play. Also, two things I've said since Ori's release and before: Wrastor is Marth-ilypuff. A fast character with Falcon uair and Ganon bair cannot be a bad character.

[@atWisely]

Yeah, comparisons are super helpful, I still do it all the time when teaching new people. I just want them to be even remotely accurate 😭

[@primalaspid2972]

Wrastor is way closer to metaknight than he ever will be to falco

[@user-gp6lq5mg9z]

ik I'm doing what the video is making fun of but wrastor really is falcon + meta knight + Marth to me

[@Saskaruto16]

@@user-gp6lq5mg9z Puff + Marth + Meta Knight. He was much more Puff but they kept nerfing his Puff attributes so he had to play more aggressive now.

[@Raminator243]

I was thinking that the whole time I was watching this video. The Falco comparisons are ridiculous and am glad Wisely is calling it out.

[@Sir720x2]

as a wrastor when I saw ‘puff I fucking CHEERED because they’re both my mains lmao

[@lancesmith8298]

Also there’s absolutely going to be a point in the history of platform fighter development where someone can say in good conscience “yeah, this character is loosely based off of John Workshop, from the Rivals of Aether 1 Workshop, who never got added to the base games ever.” I look at the person joking about how a fighter is partially based on Omori and Knack 2, and see an inevitability

[@BlackHero20]

6:08. people dont compare them because the people that actually realize the comparison dont see the need. ori has always been the falcon of rivals 1. alot of his moves and are very similar and his gameplan is not too far off. he sure aint a falcon clone but he is certainly based on ganon. hell the whole time you were making the comparison i was think ori in my head way before you said it. they are similar. we just dont mind much. just like a lot of good rivals 1 players dont mind that zetter is pm wolf or clairen is melee marth. wrastor is falco actually does drive me nuts though.

[@illford]

For some reason I hate idiots but don't mind falcon

[@xavibun]

FINALLY! Somebody gets that Ori and Captain Falcon share a lot of the same archetype philosophies! I'm an Ori main in Rivals 1 and I say this a lot because it's true Subbed

[@FeltonDood]

This happens a lot when new players pick up the game and they ask "Who's the X of this game." and I say "No one, they are are all pretty unique but..." then I go into describe how the characters actually play. People really just need finally understand themselves and what play style they like rather than "I want play pikachu." (caveman speak intentional). Try understanding what attributes you like about the characters you play across many fighting games, and if you only play one fighting and one character, just explore every character in the new game you are trying and don't place huge expectations on a character to be something you are 100% familiar with. Thanks for the video Wisely this was great. Love ya friend.

[@wes7469]

I remember watching Leffen try Forsburn and him saying he was Joker plus Wario. God.

[@ThePoodle]

I REMEMBER THAT STREAM He called Ori "just nana and popo" Like bitch??? Ori is like the only plat fighter puppet character outside of Rosalina.

[@slenderMax28]

Forsburn not only predates Joker as a platform fighter character, but as a video game character, too!!!

[@Jollofmuncher2000]

Forsburn is literally like a decade old bruh

[@danielhardy9512]

​@@ThePoodle and Brawl Minus Dedede

[@luminary97]

People just see something that looks vaguely like something else and assume it is a copy or clone. It even happens in Smash itself. People to this day still think Wolf is a clone of Fox.

[@RaveDX]

It really doesn't help that the dev intentionally copied some animations for characters. It's hard not to compare Zetterburn and Wolf cuz they share animations like forward-tilt, Dair, and their smash attacks.

[@puunk_9240]

The only version of falco that plays even slightly similar to wrastor is brawl minus falco, but something tells me that's not what people are thinking of when they say that

[@Dreadspool]

Okay, sorry I kinda zoned out for the first like 20 seconds cause your facial hair is just flat out immaculate my man. You are fucking killing it.

[@purklank]

actually one says "too easy" and the other says "piece of cake" so that's another reason they're the same character:)

[@GmNdWtchr96]

Even from a lore standpoint, I'd argue Wrastor is more like Revali from Breath of the Wild than Falco.

[@gusteen3292]

This is a struggle I get when making my own platform fighter. When I design my fighters, I try to mix aspects of multiple fighters to make a unique identity. For instance, my basic "beginner" character has the weight and forward air of Mario, but she also has the fall speed of Fox, a chargeable projectile that can be either a Fox or Wolf Laser, a side special similar to Ness but not exactly, a Ryu tatsu for a Down Special, and a totally unique Up Special mechanically. Despite all these desperate mechanics, I remix what I got inspired by to make a congealed blend that can truly feel unique, aiming for a fast, combo-centric, rushdown fighter that uses projectiles not to zone but to better approach her opponent, I feel that's pretty distinct, don't you think?

[@dave9515]

Honestly i think the only accurate one is calling Zetterburn Pm wolf which is never heard instead they compare Zetterburn to fox just cause of waveshine when Dan made Zetter since he was a PM wolf main and wanted something close to home and what he was familiar with. Edit: Oh it was slightly mentioned.

[@the0therethan]

I feel like if you just own the game and try wrastor for like 30 seconds the first thought isn’t gonna be “ok this is falco” but instead that wrastor’s playstyle makes more sense for a bird than what falco does lol

[@chrabascz]

This is just Rivals' "Fox Only Final Destination is all Melee is! They need glitches to even play their game!" (Aside from falco-wrastor) I think it is fine to say "X character is *like* Y + Z" to help get people in the door, or understand how individual moves function. If i say Absa is like Zelda + Mewtwo with Pika up b, and the average person could probably get what I mean. If it helps people get on board it's ok to dumb it down a little bit. I rarely have those conversations with people that actually play the game since we are already familiar with the characters on the screen

[@-bemyvalentine-]

Smash players will never beat the "only game I played is Smash" allegations.

[@paulgordon1595]

Are people actually saying that Wraster and Falco play similarly??? Who?? I get the looks (somewhat) but that’s about it.

[@crookycumbles]

People who saw an image of Wrastor.

[@traycarrot]

"Somewhat" Bro, that's equally delusional 😂

[@cyberjeeb]

I'm pretty sure ranno was directly compared to melee sheik by the devs in that one presentation they made when he came out (and i think they said the same for clairen and marth) I think the goal was to add familiarity to the game with those 2 in the same wave of dlc.

[@wonkywombat12]

I’ve seen wrastor compared to falco so many times and it drives me nuts. Like, imo wrastor is just if puff and marth had a child (puff for all the reasons you said, and marth because of the way that the character tends to play neutral. Ie, being fairly defensive and taking space with big ol’ hitboxes). It’s so frustrating lmao

[@kyallon1213]

My favorite is when people just make stuff up to justify their comparison. I once had someone try to tell me that ranno is greninja because they both have low air speed when gren has a top ten air speed in ultimate.

[@PalPlays]

My roommate keeps saying that Ranno is like Greninja. I played Smash 4 and he didn't and I keep telling him that they are literally nothing alike except for down tilt. Then he goes, "But up smash???" and I respond, "Bro! Sheik!!!"

[@kyallon1213]

@ if the upsmash doesn’t have a chance of you falling out, it’s not greninja upsmash

[@Raminator243]

A friend of mine did the same thing. It’s so tiresome.

[@daserfomalhaut9809]

I remember watching a tournament for some other platform fighter. I think it was Nick All Stars or something. The COMMENTATOR himself was saying "oh yeah this is what I like more about this game over Rivals because Rivals characters are 'just Smash characters' but this game like everyone's totally fresh!" And I just clicked off. Like did buddy even touch Rivals? Did he so much as get past the installation process? But honestly, this isn't a Smash Bros fan thing. This is a Nintendo fan thing which is why I can't stand talking to a lot of them. They do this for any game that's remotely similar to something Nintendo prominently has as if Nintendo just has a design cornered. They call WipEout an F-Zero clone when they have no similarities other than featuring flying cars. AfterBurner Climax used to be called either an Ace Combat knockoff or StarFox knockoff when AfterBurner existed years before either series. Any fighter with ledges and platforms is a Smash clone. Any racing game with items is a Mario Kart clone. ZERO merits of their own, just clones because Nintendo's the only one that can do X genre since they created it (they didn't). They don't *own* genres and they certainly are not the be all, end all of archetypes and design philosophies least of all for characters. A lot of Nintendo games lift openly from existing works. Smash Bros is inspired by The OutFoxies and Virtua Fighter 3. StarFox is inspired by StarBlade. Zelda is inspired by Tower of Druaga. Super Mario Bros 1 pulls from Pac Land. Ocarina of Time pulls mechanics from Cyber Troopers: Virtual-On. Splatoon is 1:1 an idea MicroSoft scrapped on the 360 called Color Wars. Mario Kart pulls from Power Drift. The list goes on. Not to say Nintendo is some ripoff artist, they're not. But concepts and design doesn't simply exist in a vacuum and spring up one day. Art is always iterative even from the best minds. I'm not gonna pretend other fanbases absolutely don't do this. But Nintendo fans are the most frequent and insistent about claiming something else is aping the works of their God. It's tired.

[@sylphofspace2258]

The Beowulf part had me screaming omg... WHY DOES NO ONE ACKNOWLEDGE WULF WHEN TALKING ABOUT HER I CAN'T STAND IT 😭😭😭

[@Mayadel100]

Cause nobody plays skullgirls dude its that simple

[@crazycap2945]

@@Mayadel100 Smash players don't, that is

[@Aidan174]

Smash players especially, but neither does anyone else lets be real

[@pinksywedarnoc8017]

These are Smash players, they don't know shit about any other fighting games. And street fighter doesn't count.

[@Cybertasm8798]

I honestly had no idea people compared Wrastor to Falco. And now that I do know, I have onr thing to say... HOW THE FUCK ARE THEY SIMILAR?!

[@kitkat9716]

if i see one comparison of kragg to steve or sonic (LOL) im gonna lose it. felt so validated seeing this video

[@Hamzakuhh]

wrastor and falco are nothing alike, however every time i get interrupted by slipstream into a combo i get a bit of falco ptsd

[@KingObliv]

it can be hard not to compare moves because some are pretty much the same but Zetterburn and Ranno are the only ones I'd say are highly similar to a smash character

[@shenangelos2735]

I've always said ori is just captain falcon with peach recovery, a projectile, and nana

[@BMVfilms]

I absolutely saw the falcon comparisons as soon as I played Ori. But she does have a lot more specials that add set play into the mix

[@dave9515]

Yeah Ori is more like if captain falcon and Rosalina were both one character. The orb is a major part of Ori's gameplan. Sein is at the front and center of all ori plays.

[@LiamWins]

I agree with most of this video, but I think people comparing completely different characters based on aesthetic design is more so a testament on how well designed some of these characters are that both of their movesets feel like they ARE the character while having completely different movesets. Also, I think comparing characters (based on their MOVESETS) is very useful when getting smash players into rivals, as it makes it very easy for them to pick an early main that feels familiar and allows them to get a hang of the fundamentals of the differences in games more easily rather than being focused on the very weird movesets, even if they don’t stick with that character in the long term.

[@jonahrussell1407]

I’d be so interested to see the same vid for hero shooters because what you said about Smash players is exactly the same for Overwatch players

[@aviator2777]

shoto in street fighter and shoto in smash mean two different things. ryu and ken were called shotos initially because they were the only fgc characters and they were both proper shotos, but as kazuya and terry were added, the definition of shoto expanded to basically mean "the autoturnaround chars with overtuned input moves"

[@lormill4851]

"Cancel Up Smash"

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

Something I noticed fairly early on is that rivals characters are truly their own. When you say "they are like X smash character" its usually a mash of 3 or 4 characters. This was one of the things that made me fall in love with the game.

[@phorchybug3286]

Kragg is technically Donkey Kong inspired but he creates all sorts of crazy rock attacks out of thin air. Also he's a bug. Really cool dude.

[@CrispChip]

Completely unrelated but your beard is magnificent

[@AguaDeOguo]

People only see it similar bc is a platform fighter, they always compare things even if they doesnt have remotely anything in common 😭

[@Astar72439]

Wrastor doesn’t have a single move that’s like falco except bair wtf

[@loganalleman]

To be fair, absa has zelda forward and back air, and that's 85% of melee zelda's kit. Most of these comparisons would be totally valid if people specified what moves/mechanics they meant. Not really wrastor/falco though, that's all looks.

[@InverseSquare1v5]

Really well made video, hitting the 10+ minutes filled of actual content that drives the point forward. Gj Wisely :)

[@yesiam7481]

omg omg but isnt wrastor like literally meta knight falco pit captain falcon though??? I mean, falco is a bird. AND he has that ONE move (you know? That one attack where you press it and it does damage to the enemy player?) I mean the other 95% of his kit is unique..? But..... but...? No, No No NO NO NO!!! I just cant fathom that-Hes not wrastor, hes... hes captain jiggly meta pit-"Why?" er.. uhm.. HE JUST *IS* OKAY??!?

[@cyprienramis1304]

I mean this, as you said at the start, has always been the same in fighting games, a shoto isn't anything but another way to say "that character is Ryu", same goes for spacies and swordies in plat fighters,... And this is good as it can provide a quick understanding of what the character's doing. My biggest problem with how it's happening with R2 tho is that people will usually only use melee or ult as a reference (and rarely both at the same time), and that the comparison usually doesn't go as deep as it could when it comes to gameplay (sometimes not deep at all like with Falco/Wrastor when litterally their only somewhat similar move is neutral b), and they usually don't draw comparisons with characters from trad fighters, which is sometimes essential since plat fighters are younger and the biggest serie of game isn't a competitive one so a bunch character designs haven't been touched yeat (for example I can't really find anything near Fleet's projectile game in plat fighters, so the comparison I'd draw is with the way Juri uses her grounded fireball as a pressure tool). Also those analysis frequently forgot to tell about what's unique to a character, which is especially frustrating with R2 since every character is so distinct.

[@Henry-qt3py]

Probably because many people either only played melee seriously or only played ultimate seriously. So they compare to the game that they themselves have played. I can't reference any melee character or any regular fighter games because I have not played any extensively. People are gonna compare to what they know lol

[@De_an]

I can't wait for people to compare Hodan to DK because they're both monkeys that can spin their arms around like a helicopter, when the Guile comparison is RIGHT. THERE. (Shoutouts to Hodan for being the first charge character in a platform fighter btw.)

[@SillyDogJoe]

I honestly don't even get why this is the comparison that gets made, is it because they're both birds? They differ way too much for it to work. I would understand if I heard maybe people compared Zetter to the spacies but even then it's a stretch

[@SamWeltzin]

As an Absa main, I can say with confidence that she is just Jigglypuff because she has a move that, during activation, can cover the entire screen in a straight line. That's right: Held neutral special is identical to Puff's back air. Exact. Same. Move. And. Exact. Same. Character.

[@XONAT]

thats annoys me too they just look alike but they dont share anything in common

[@NadiaDelcatty-pg6fs]

Wraster Falco - but they’re both birds so they must be the same /j

[@awesome19ssbb]

am so glad am not the only one who thought le rina was just beowolf pet ant he train.

[@Rayan_BB]

5:47 i heard “up-air” and thought of Ori immediately lmao btw this video is awesome! 💖

[@Devinswumps]

Everyone did this with NASB 2, almost every character in that game has some special meter that is unique to them but everyone can’t help but compare characters to smash despite being in a completely different game

[@seldomseenkid_61]

Engagement for the engagement gods

[@violettreglio2933]

Comments for the comment throne

[@DrPlumberMan]

La Reina and Incineroar come from same wrestling home, but use those skills differently, it's like saying Marth and Ike are the same, cause they are both sword fighters.

[@user-wb8iu1hl6i]

Wrastor plays nothing like Falco, he has more moves from Captain Falcon or Marth. Absa does actually play like Zelda though. And a lot of the Rivals characters don't just have the same archetypes, they literally have the same move animations... like Ranno's back air is at the exact same angle as Sheik's.

[@melon9660]

Fire video but also your beard is looking immaculate

[@sonofsalass]

I only started playing Rivals when II came out and a week ago googled "Okay but which one is Zelda" and now I'm on my knees begging for Absa to get here soon.

[@curse5697]

lol

[@LitBoy420]

This is how video games have been described since the beginning. Souls-like is a perfect example. Video Games are abstract works of art, there isn't always a realistic, yet effective way to describe characters.

[@yan_dj]

Puff mains who moved to Rivals know what's up with Wrastor

[@Eon_TAS]

i wanna say i have seen a lot of comparison between ori and falcon for sure, not in the same way as the aesthetic stuff people go off on, but definitely felt it, especially the uair juggles

[@PapaYogito]

They're just BIRDS!!!

[@curse5697]

they're honestly so racist smh

[@BestBirdman]

Wrastor and Falco being birds is unironically enough of a similarity for me to play them both

[@tashi321]

im glad my roommate was an ori main cause i always got smacked up by him and i always called ori mini falcon on crack

[@Jarekthegamingdragon]

I've been calling ori a tiny falcon that's also a puppet character FOR SOME REASON for years. Thank god ori isn't coming back LMAO

[@atWisely]

... But I'm an Ori main 😢

[@Jarekthegamingdragon]

@@atWisely *were an ori main

[@olaf8778]

dan said they hope to bring back the movesets of the characters, even if they cant bring the character itself back.

[@Jarekthegamingdragon]

@@olaf8778 Oh I have no problem with a falcon style character. Ori was just not the most balanced character.

[@CIBEmma64]

I am going to torment my friend who does not like Jigglypuff in Smash but plays exclusively Wrastor with this knowledge, banger vid

[@rytre]

Guys we have it all wrong... let me settle this :) Wrastor is Luigi. Kragg is Steve Zetterburn is Wolf Clairen is Marth Loxodont is Gannondorf Ranno is Shiek

[@tuPHwUn]

nonono Wrastor is Luigi. Kragg is Sheik Wolf is Marth Zetterburn is Clairen Ganondorf is Steve Loxodont is Ranno

[@cosmic5665]

Fun fact, kragg predates smash bros steve

[@tuPHwUn]

@Wisely tell me I'm not crazy please, I think Fox has more in common with Orcane than Zetterburn Orcane has functionally all the same normals as Fox, (plus the bonus Fair-BubbleJet and Bair-Sweetspot) I didn't understand what I wanted to do with Orcane until I realized this, if I turn off my brain and think "Fox" Orcane is so natural to me (as far as aerials and tilts) I even get an Up-throw>Upair setup that can be SDI'd out of, sounds a lot like Fox to me lol but, y'know... fire and all... what with the shine and whatnot ...Zetterburn is Fox I guess? :|

[@teetaw]

Ok valid 100% I agree but in defense of the falco wraster comparison I always felt they were “masters of the air” with wrasters ability to do strongs in the air and falcons massive double jump

[@De_an]

I once saw somebody say Orcane is like Yoshi. That was my breaking point.

[@kyanwilliams3069]

THANK YOU! Too many people say this. I mained the spacies in Melee and Ultimate and learned to love Falco more, if Wrastor was exactly mirrored from Falco…I wouldn’t be playing Zetter😭

[@DerciEXE]

This has been one of the most annoying Rivals discussions for 9 years. I'm loving the Bomb Rush Cyberfunk music tho

[@atWisely]

BRC rips

[@CarrotFlavoredFeline]

That temple jump video is how I learnt about this channel

[@_WiZ420]

I'm not frustrated at the character comparison, HOWEVER, I can not tolerate people falsely comparing. There are people who fail to realize things like Wrastor being only ON the MK spectrum, the Meta Knight spectrum merely combining aspects of Puff, Falcon, and Marth. To be exact, I only accept character comparisons when they're based on the actual moves; example, Ranno is a bit like a Sheik Greninja, it just so HAPPENS that he could be physically compared as well. EDIT: also thanks a ton for elaborating on Ori. I feel like people are missing out on something really fun with that character.

[@SunburstSenshi]

I’ve always compared the moves that are similar between characters, never the vibe unless the vibe is actually strikingly similar. Like, Clairen has Marth tippers but the actual vibe of Lucina because they both came from the future to save the past, wield a sword, and wear a cape + mask that only obscures their upper face. Other than maybe down air and back air, the two don’t share anything else, and even then back air doesn’t even work the same way. 😅

[@EDDYSUNSHINEv2]

I'm guilty of doing this- but just in the context for providing an example for a character's toolkit if needed. Just to help someone digest info in a weirdly familiar way. But yeah this is some BS LOL, shit hurts

[@atWisely]

Oh 100%. It's totally useful to help contextualize stuff! I just hurt inside when the comparison begins and ends with "they're the same character tbh"

[@Orion_Mr.Starlight]

I remember when hungrybox reacted to all the Nick all stars character showcases and the thumbnail was always "x smash character"!?!? With the actual character next to it.

[@pinksywedarnoc8017]

When he compared Nigel Thornberry to Jigglypuff because they had the same down B (in terms of what it does)

[@ScribeAwoken]

I've been saying that Ori is a lightweight Falcon with a puppet for years. ... also back in the Rivals 1 Early Access days, a friend described Wrastor as "what if you took Puff and surgically implanted the hype from Captain Falcon"

[@tuPHwUn]

if Marth and Jigglypuff had a baby that came out looking like Captain Falcon or earlier I was just thinking Melee players passing around a bong saying: "what if we made a character with Falcons Nair, and like, a faster stomp and better Falcon Kick" "OO ooo with Falco's Bair!, and like Marth's Fair/Upair too!" "let's give him Puffs rest, but make it look like Marth's Up-B!" "fuckit let's give him Metaknights tornado and hella jumps" Wrastor is like a Melee player's Akuma lol

[@l.n.3372]

So, are you saying that it's okay to compare characters IF the comparison is warranted? Aka don't call Zetter "Fox," call Zetter "pm Wolf" instead?

[@atWisely]

I mean, there wasn't really an end "goal"for the video. I wanted to explore different ways people compare aesthetic design vs gameplay design. But for that specific question, yeah. Comparisons are totally fine and useful, I just want people to be smart about it

[@l.n.3372]

@atWisely Gotcha. And good job on that crew battle for the Rivals 2 tournament BTW. I really enjoyed that crew battle ^^