Why Squid Game's Ending Reveal Doesn't Work

[@SchaffrillasProductions]

Aight the old man not having cuffs on during the tightrope game was some pretty good attention to detail, thanks for pointing that out y'all

[@XwezzyO]

I like the twist at the end a lot and it makes sense

[@DownAtrocious]

Did you forget the name of Tug-o-war? lol

[@Gin404]

Also when the old man yelled "stop I'm scared", that was a pretty obvious hint that he had some ties with them, since they wouldn't stop the game just cause some old man said he was scared.

[@T1nyFr0gg]

There was also the part where it wasn't the police alone that helped the homeless man, there was the blonde guy from earlier that alerted them

[@happypika3]

Amogus

[@olivergabriel4401]

I saw the contradiction of "everyone is equal in the game" while protecting the old man, as an allegory to the extremely rich people having their own separate set of rules despite saying that everyone is playing the game under the same conditions

[@tommyhofer1176]

I was thinking the exact same thing

[@ReblazeGaming]

Yeah the whole point especially was that it wasn’t actually all equal and fair. Like I don’t know how schaffrillas missed that. It’s a game run for rich people to enjoy poor people suffer and scramble for money, they don’t give af about whether it’s actually fair for them, it’s that if it’s unfair it makes it less entertaining for the VIPs too. Even in the glass bridge game, they screwed people over who went first and they didn’t let the glass factory worker use his own skills to tell the difference and they screwed him over by dimming the lights, which in a sense is unfair and was only done so the VIPs could have a better show. And there are many more examples of how unfair the games were, I just can’t be bothered writing them all.

[@Crazyapple16]

As George Orwell would say, all animals are equal but some are more equal than others

[@tommyhofer1176]

@@Crazyapple16 lolll

[@succusage3966]

Well it is defined as an analogy of capitalism by the creators, so that seems like a given

[@atoxicmelody3289]

I feel like Gi-hun leaving the airport at the end was a call back to when his ex wife complained to him about how he wasn’t there for the birth of his daughter, but chose to try and help someone first and foremost. As a character, he values helping others over his own family and personal life which is illustrated in both of those scenes.

[@judefliegler1745]

good point, I forgot about that. also illustrates the horrible working conditions at his manufacturing job where the workers would eventually go on strike

[@shanehart7391]

I’m all for him helping people…but go see your daughter! Even if he’s doing the greater good i hate seeing him let her down. 😩 damn them for writing that in! 😑

[@chelsmac3179]

Ooo good perspective

[@katitax508]

@@shanehart7391 Right? He should care about his daughter’s feelings too. Your dad letting you down like that fucks you up

[@Themfeels101]

It's established in the start that he is kinda a bad father.

[@NecroticFarron]

Only one criticism here, the police aren't the ones who saved the freezing man in the street, a person walking by checked on them and then walked off urgently, leaving the audience irritated that that person almost helped them and then walked away (maybe even pickpocketing them whilst doing so). The police who arrive later have that same person who left exit the car, meaning that they left to go get help rather than abandon them. This is likely some metaphor regarding its not too late to change, or someone is more than they appear or something. Idk, Tamatoa's idea for Gi-hun to go help them was much better.

[@feister2869]

Wait people misunderstood that?? I knew that citizen helped that homeless guy the first watch.

[@Kelarys]

@@feister2869 the only one who misunderstood that is shaef lol

[@TVChild3]

Yeah, that person has blonde hair specifically so the viewer notices it’s the same person when they come back.

[@pedrogoncalves3162]

Schaffrillas takes on the bet really annoyed me. Not only what you said, but other things. He said Gi-hun shouldve went to help him, but that makes no sense, since he wouldnt be helping the homeless man just for the sake of helping someone, thereby proving that people are indeed good and worth it. No, if he went there he wouldve been helping the guy for his own benefit of winning the bet and therefore wouldnt prove people are good. He also said that him standing there and watching is akin to the vips, which makes no sense, since Gi-hun truly believed someone would turn up and save him proving Gi-huns point and demonstrating how wrong the old guy is.

[@pedrogoncalves3162]

I was also disappointed that Schaffrillas, the guy that says he can see every twist villain coming a mile away, didnt see this one coming and was upset that he was tricked with the ganbbu stuff. I really didnt like this review, but its fine since his other reviews are great

[@jeeneeuz]

Nah it does recontextualize the events of episode 6. Il-nam isn't just in the game for fun like he says, he's in the game to confirm his worldview that humanity is inherently evil. The marble game is not a touching moment, it is Il-nam corrupting Gi-hun by giving him an opportunity to cheat. Il-nam wins the marble game when Gi-hun takes advantage of his "dementia". The bet on the homeless man is the seventh game (hence the floor 7), and this is the final corruption of Gi-hun. Gi-hun loses the moment he takes the bet, as he is now betting on humans just as Il-nam does. He watches the man from behind the glass just like the VIPs do.

[@nicole9volt]

This is a great view on that and this deserves more likes!!

[@eagletgriff]

Awesome analysis!

[@mariacillan9668]

Thank you. Needs to be pinned

[@dionemartins0212]

Oh... I did not notice the last part. That is... Incredible

[@M.J.Music00]

This is such a great observation! It makes me appreciate the show so much more! Thank you for sharing!!!

[@adamchalmers5876]

He tells them that he isn't a horse, he's a person. Right after, they tell him to get on the plane. Him not going on the plane was kind of a defiance against them. That's how I took it anyway

[@radiofloyd2359]

Yeah, but I feel like they intended for that to happen.

[@adamchalmers5876]

Won't know until season 2 unfortunately

[@radiofloyd2359]

@@Andre83572 could be... Well I'm personally not very eager for a second season, as I feel this one concluded perfectly and does a great job at wrapping up (as well as fully exploring) it's themes, but that's besides the point.

[@matthew5330]

@@Andre83572 oh god don't even get me started on the saw series lmao

[@hieutruong7456]

So is he more horse than man or more man than horse

[@AGingerHomosapien]

One thing: the police coming by at the last minute to help the homeless man is not dumb luck. The person who gets out of the car with the police officer is the stranger who walked past the homeless man a few minutes before and looked like he was going to stop and help before moving on. The guy goes off and gets the police and leads them back to the homeless guy.

[@wyattlion6299]

Was just about to say this.

[@aadipie]

That is so fucking cool lol

[@Chonkoyoinky]

Thank god someone said it

[@galaxystudios370]

Let’s like this so James can see it

[@arcanehornet]

Wasn’t that completely obvious if you’re paying a little attention?

[@pixelsthered]

Slight mistake at 10 minutes. The police don't "just come along" - they come with the person who had been witnessed prodding the drunk guy earlier and then walking away. This reveals that even though he had seemed disinterested, he in fact went to get help.

[@msgirly6827]

@OwO stop.

[@ShockMedic]

@@msgirly6827 just report his comment for spam and move on

[@lolbuster01]

I initially thought that person robbed him and I was like, damn, that was brutal.

[@yes2542]

It's also an illusion to what Gi-Hun does at the end of the episode. Seems like he's going to see daughter, but in fact goes to get help for the people in the squid games

[@nam9085]

he also makes a mistake for the tug of war mini game calling it a plot hole if since he thinks it would lead to ill nams death but he didnt have any cuffs on so he wouldnt have died. Weirdly alot of mistakes in this video

[@GlizaSkynsea]

There also was another big hint that I invite you to go back to check: When Jun-ho has infiltrated the foreman's office and is looking through the archives, he opens up the current game file and the first page is player 002, the file of player 001 was missing. This made me become a lot suspicious of him.

[@daydreams6956]

omg nice catch i don't think i noticed that!

[@marisawojcikiewicz8148]

One thing: retrospectively, I don’t see Il-Nam voting to end the game as him being benevolent. He’s seen every iteration of the game and very well knows that most, if not all of them, will come back. I think it’s a tactic to keep the contestants compliant once they return, and also provide him and the VIPs with somewhat of a high ground or justification, because the contestants truly chose to participate, even once they truly knew the stakes. Il-Nam’s philosophy inherently rejects that there is good in people, so he wouldn’t have voted to end the game with benevolent intentions.

[@literalsunshine9767]

!!!!! You are right!!! The decision wasn't made by his kindness but because this is what happens nost games and they expect it front man shows this. Omg!! My eyes are open 👀

[@KmiiVC]

plus he also still wanted to have fun and make friends :D

[@fantasiazplatkami]

Since he was in games himself this time, he wanted only volunteers , not people held by force

[@benadical222]

I’d also argue that this is part of his character arc, initially he votes for them to leave because knowing human nature (as he sees it) they’re all too selfish to resist the urge to come back for the money and so the game will continue as planned. However, by the second game onward he, Gin, and the rest of the team’s bond strengthens and he realizes that collective betterment is more satisfying than any selfish materialism. And so the bet he made on humanity’s selfishness by voting for the games to end is contrasted at the end of the series by his bet on humanity’s charitableness by betting the homeless man would be helped.

[@pomamoba]

Yup. It fits well with the message. It is the perfect answer to the argument “If work conditions are so bad, quit, nobody made you work there!”. They did, they know how the system works, and that those people don’t have an actual choice. About 20 out of 200 refused to come back, and most likely didn’t survive that long. So him letting them leave is more to ensure he’ll be able to say “You made that decision yourself” rather than to actually give those people choice.

[@Zeddyboi86]

The worst death for me was Ali. He was my favorite character, and the raw sting of the betrayal was incredible! I also like that his was one of the only off-screen deaths, because I think they KNEW we didn’t wanna see that! 😭

[@coreycasciano3255]

I was so upset when he dumped out the little bag into his hands and it was rocks, Sang Woo started as a great character and turned into as much of as Douchebag as Deuok whatever his last name was, I actually cried when the old man “died” lowkey I wish that the twist wasn’t in the show, but at same time I understand why it happens

[@splinky098]

Justice for Ali...

[@Jsingle911]

I think Ali was killed off-screen because he is the REAL REAL host of the games, which we'll find out in S2!!! /s but not really.

[@snappedfoil]

@@Jsingle911 i see the /s and get its sarcasm but i mean we saw his dead body in the next episode :(

[@violetjade64]

@@coreycasciano3255 who is soo wang??? 😭😭😭 it's sang-woo (상우)

[@bigboyblue97]

I actually like the twist. I find it similar to how ceo’s and other billionaires try to make it seem like they are playing the same game as you, but they play by entirely different rules.

[@Powersd451]

Oh damn, good point.

[@mahpiyaeagle6528]

huh, that's a good point

[@littlelordfuckleroy3822]

real life billionaires and millionaires dress up as homeless people sometimes because they find it “fun.” This reveal is brilliant.

[@galarstar052]

@@littlelordfuckleroy3822 i mean, potentially being an analogy for something irl doesn't automatically make it a brilliant twist in terms of writing.

[@littlelordfuckleroy3822]

@@galarstar052 well that’s not the only reason I like the twist, just one aspect of it

[@jacquesstevens4920]

The old man sending everyone home wasn't a kindness, he knew they would all come back. It's another one of those illusion of choice moments that show the contestants have no real power.

[@Nameless82284]

At least this time it's their fault if they come back. The first time they didn't know what they were getting themselves into but the next time it was on them. As he said, no one had to play. Those who died in the first game were innocent but those who die in the next game they are all guilty.

[@emartin29]

@@Nameless82284 They have no choice, they're being forced by the money. It's not their fault, you think they would play if no money was involved? Almost all of them just already have no way of escaping debts or living, playing the game is their only hope. It's like the comment said, it's illusion of choice, they actually have no choice. They didn't actually agree to be murdered on those games, they just NEEDED that money. The old man still killed tons of people and there it is his fault, not theirs. Il-nam is the one to blame for their deaths, he made the games.

[@Nameless82284]

@@emartin29 I wasn't defending the old man, I was just pointing out how no one had to play. They knew of the consequences and still went for it. It's not worth it to risk your life over it. What if you don't win? Not only would you lose the money but your life. And who knows, maybe there's another game out there that offers a huge prize, one where they don't kill people.

[@mercysirmaa]

I always thought that he wanted to experience the best game so making sure the contestants really wanted to be there and remembered what they were fighting for would give him the most adrenaline filled game.

[@dustrose8101]

@@Nameless82284 The contestants had a choiceless choice. It's not much of a choice when their alternatives are their old lives, which are pretty much under the stranglehold of crippling poverty, and the games, which offer an escape, be it winning or death.

[@leedriver7029]

The bet about the drunk guy wasn’t about the bet itself, but to see if humanity was inherently self centered or if there was still some compassion in the world. Gi-hun stayed in the room because he wanted to see if someone would help a stranger with no benefit to themself. The person in the yellow hoodie that stopped by the drunk person then left returned with the police, showing the person left to get the police to save the drunk person, and that’s why Gi-hun was happy at the end and was inspired to finally help the families of his friends.

[@zthetajulietta8184]

Yeah, if gi hun went to help it just wouldn’t hit the same. He has an incentive to help the homeless man, he wants to prove the old man wrong and that is self serving. The bet wasn’t “I bet you won’t go help that guy” it was “I bet no pedestrian witnessing this drunk man will want to help”

[@SandersCat_yo]

exactly. dude was convinced there was no good in the world after witnessing the brutality of the games, needed a little spark of hope

[@ahh952]

That's true, but it doesn't improve his character at all. I felt that it was going for a "be the change you want to see in the world" thing. Him waiting for someone else to take action doesn't reflect good on him, also prioritizing a "game" over a human life. It makes him part of it, so it discredits him not using any of the money. Gi-hun made too many contradicting decisions that made no sense for what was established.

[@TheDramacist]

I think the stupidly of the bet hits Gi-hun when he realised the old man probably died before seeing the outcome. He literally just became one of the VIPs. It gives him a kick up the arse to stop being a passive onlooker and go DO stuff to make amends

[@zthetajulietta8184]

@@ahh952 it wasn’t a test of gi Hun’s morality at this point though. Gi hun has a unique perspective and has gone through a very demoralizing and traumatizing ordeal in exchange for money he can’t even look at-he is compromised. He absolutely wants to prove this organization and the old man wrong on their misanthropic and dehumanizing perspective, but a true test of empathy and care for your fellow man cannot be taken if it’s coming from a person that has so much to gain from proving the old man wrong. It’s important coming from a simple bystander that has no knowledge of the squid games and what the 1% are doing. The games had made gi hun lose hope in himself and humanity and he needed to see someone outside of this sick insular world he’s in do a selfless act to inspire him back to his true spirits.

[@tasteslikestupid4003]

Hi, wanted to shout out the "vote to leave" rule of the game. Il-nam didn't choose to let everyone go just to end the game. The game is designed KNOWING that most leavers will return. These cripplingly indebted people are very carefully vetted; it's strikingly clear how fucked these people are. The game is BUILT for them to come back, to the point the gamerunners even track it year over year, noting "this year's return rate." It's more torture to keep them in line. Also narratively it's a clear/clever way to introduce characters' dire situations without clunky mid-game flashbacks.

[@kingsaracoon9594]

economic studies 😤

[@someonepassingby1635]

That makes sense, I mean, they've been hosting this game for over a decade and I don't believe this has never happened in the past game once before

[@rbwjakfjenwbw1009]

That's why I take issue whenever people say that "well they chose to came back". Yes they did, but it's because their circumstances meant that they would rather have some shot at glory than simply dying hungry and pathetic. You can't really say it's much of a choice when most people had nowhere else to go. The fact that people were desperate enough to go back shows that the poor actually have NO choice other than having to risk the lives of themselves and others in order for a CHANCE at success. It's an important piece of social commentary that people always miss.

[@johnmarkson1990]

​@@rbwjakfjenwbw1009 if anything the games werent truly all that evil imo. i think they saved ali's family from being killed alongside him. they gave ji yeong a friend and good experience before death that i dont think she would of gotten outside the games. sae byeok probably would of been beaten to death by someone she stole from. they all had terrible lives outisde of the games. ilnam and frontman didnt pick anyone to die that werent already dead. frontman even gave his brother a chance after being shot. the true villains were the people trying to end the games and send those people back to poverty with no CHANCE at success.

[@thedonkey6704]

Yooo. I can’t wait for squid game 2 where Tamatoa beats every game in 2 seconds because of his size

[@terragolemenjoyer8359]

Fuck it, he just destroys the fuckin island

[@rubub8455]

@@terragolemenjoyer8359 the entire island is actually his shell 😳

[@shadowspector3611]

Goodluck with Honeycomb lol

[@glendarjj3991]

Because of his size? No! Because he's goddamn tomotoa that's why

[@1000Flows]

That sounds like the hypest shit! I didn't really like Squid Game, but I would definitely tune in for a season 2 if Tamatoa wrecks shit up!

[@kingkobra9610]

Fun thing to mention, every single game is actually rigged for the old man to win. If you rewatch, you can notice it easily. Red light green light, he's the only player not highlighted aside from those too close to him, which put him in danger. Dalgona, he picks one of the easiest shapes, arguably the easiest. He's also only scared in one game, the night time brawl. The 'game' ends at his calling, because he is in genuine danger. If you rewatch while knowing, it becomes really obvious that he was a knower. It's understandable if the twist still doesn't work for you, but this seems like pretty useful information in making up your mind. I actually noticed early, so I found it worked well, but this if you didn't like it that's a fair opinion

[@kimchi2093]

Everyone keeps saying he wasn’t highlighted during the red light green light game, but to my eyes he had a green outline around him during the scene. What is everyone talking about there?

[@randompanda2391]

But didn't he say that if it wasn't for Gi hun then he would have died in the dalgona round?

[@kingkobra9610]

@@kimchi2093 Oh, yes he did have an outline but no freen filling to it like the other contestants, and even contestants around him had theirs removed, likely to show he wasn't hostile no matter what. Not certain though, as far as I saw he wasn't highlighted

[@kingkobra9610]

@@randompanda2391 He did say this, but it is fully possible he was lying here. He chose (arguably) the easiest shape and it is also fully possible the guards could've just escorted him out of the room instead of executing him. Idk, it also just seemed rigged for him to win due to prior knowledge

[@GarbageGuyAtGames]

The red light green light one was disproven by some guy on youtube

[@uffeli7212]

About the rope pulling game plothole, the old guy didn't have locks on his cuffs while the rest did, which implies he would have just let go last second

[@lsffan]

But in that case, if his team had lost, it would expose his position to the rest of the people there would it not?

[@vitorcustodio5899]

@@lsffan Yea, he probably would've just gone "welp, I lost, I'm out of the game. Bye" and gone back backstage

[@JamieSmith2020]

@@vitorcustodio5899 I think what fuguvn was trying to say was that even if he could’ve slipped by, that game specifically would be hard to “fake” his death without exposing him unlike every other game before.

[@leopoldbullot8016]

seeing how the other participants are situated compared to him, they could have had one of the red guys go "whoops, guess he wasn't properly attached, nothing a bullet can't solve" and pretend to shoot him like in the marble game.

[@matthewchi5292]

But he was smack in the middle of his team, how would they not notice that he doesn't have the shackles on?

[@pinkfolf5102]

The issue with Squid Game is that it took a decade for the creator to convince people to get this show produced. After that long, I really doubt he expected it would go on for more than 1 season and in truth, I think Squid Game works better as a single-season show anyway because of the fact that all the main characters have to be killed off.

[@annaisntcool]

agreeed 1000%. i know Netflix will see this as a cash cow and order more seasons but Squid Game should not have more than 1 season, it can only get worse after this.

[@ultrachadstinctgoku7579]

@@annaisntcool There are way too many plot holes. Also the ending of this season just screams season 2. The fact that the game is still going but we dont know how it will end. We dont know about Alis wife or the girls brother and whether he will be able to meet his mother. So many questions that need answering. This isnt stranger things.

[@Teddy-wd3ro]

@@ultrachadstinctgoku7579 the creator has no plan on doing a season 2 and said he doesn’t want to, what don’t y’all get?

[@thenicesven5328]

@@Teddy-wd3ro actually not true. He already talked about it and said that he is thinking about a season two. The only thing he said about it is that he wants to focus more on the Frontman (Thats just something i read in an Article) What he DID say however is this: “When I think about doing the same for Season 2, I'm personally kind of worried,” he said, before adding the part that’s likely to give Squid Game fans a glimmering ray of hope: “There’s nothing confirmed at the moment, but so many people are enthusiastic that I'm really contemplating it.” So your point is completly false and proovabley wrong. Why make up your own Stuff about what a creator said and share it to make other people think its real?

[@laraking804]

I loved it and because of that I hope there is no season 2. Good story telling requires and ending. This is why TV and cinema is often so shit these days. Everything is left open ended in case there is a sequel or new season.

[@TheMacroShow]

I completely agree, except for the bet part, because it’s clearly not just cops doing their jobs, but the guy that tried to help but left and got the police. Besides that, I do find the twist strange and kind of out of nowhere

[@OhFicial67]

There were many hints in the show that were going to lead up to the twist. From when we didn’t see #1’s data when the cop was flipping though the notes, to us not being able to see his “death” when they showed everyone else’s, etc. I thought it made sense.

[@aliceeibel]

@@OhFicial67 Also in the riot night, they only interview when he was really scared and asked to stop that shit

[@petersyeeters3989]

Yo its marco

[@MidwayWuzzupman]

@@OhFicial67 I mean it doesn't recontextualize the old man as a character and makes his heart wrenching marble scene pointless. I'd rather someone else was there instead of the old man to reveal that the old man was the host and that he died at the marble game. It'd fix the problem of him having an unfair advantage, kept his scenes powerful, still keeping the twist intact, and recontextualize him as a person better.

[@stewie_griffinismyking1716]

ok about the plot hole for challenge 3 if you look closely at right after they won you can see that the old mans handcuffs weren't locked so if they lost he could slipped out of the locks and live.

[@francescaintheusa]

A friend of mine pointed out that the last scene is almost like PTSD: the horror and the violence is more comforting in a way than a comfortable life (like with combat vets). He is so conditioned by the violence that in a way, joining his daughter and having a comfortable life would be traumatizing itself in its own way

[@sonoftheway3528]

I thought he didn't because he was going to take on the game runners.

[@supersucks]

@@sonoftheway3528 yes, that what the comment was implying. Taking down the show runners for the greater good and being in danger is better than living in a comfortable life knowing poor people are still suffering in that game

[@thatonenoob7854]

He never found it more comfortable. He just didn't want to live knowing the game that caused him all that suffering is still ongoing and hurting more people. Your example is a Vet finding comfort in a warzone rather than a comfortable life. What Gi Hun is doing is trying to stop the warzone from existing so others don't experience it too.

[@thegreyside278]

kids these days 💀

[@femalegays]

idk why people are discrediting this comment, as someone w/ ptsd, this is 100% true for me because an unknown is more anxiety inducing than a violent known, plus someone's interpretation isn't wrong because you don't like it, move on

[@daylaanle]

Tbh, I find the "fair" element in the game is a quite great irony. Similar to how society and meritocracy tell us that everyone has the same chance in life while in reality it's not always like that

[@TheSecondVersion]

It's bad enough that Il-nam had a safety net in all the games he played in, but when the Frontman *switched off the lights* in Game 5 just because a VIP asked him to, that showed the total hypocrisy of the whole affair.

[@johnmarkson1990]

@@TheSecondVersion whats the point of that game if you can see the glass and know 100% where to go? i agree with the vips on that one.

[@ethos5639]

@@TheSecondVersion The equality is that everyone is there voluntarily not knowing what the next game might possibly preventing in depth strategizing. Once the game begins equality and fairness is thrown out the window as that would tame the games. The equality is only real between the contestants when out of the games as then they are all equally worthless in the eyes of the Frontman/Guards.

[@byakugozen8334]

@@TheSecondVersion well the glass man ability in itself is an advantage which make it unfair for other people who doesn't have the ability, that's why the front man turnoff the light so everybody become "equal", I don't see any hypocrisy there.

[@chaelsonnensbicep9711]

@@byakugozen8334 Sang woo did the same shit with the honeycomb game and Ill nam with tug of war, they used knowledge from their lives outside to help them with the game. How is Glass man different

[@hootowllps]

the “plot armor” il-nam has was never plot armor. if the games were supposed to be fair to everyone, then the bridge game wouldn’t have had the lights turned off when the glass manufacturer was looking at it. it gives a facade of being fair, but it’s ultimately just for the entertainment of the rich. il-nam was never going to be in real danger, because he’s rich. the game is JUST a game to him, while it’s life and death for the poor. that’s the point. at least that’s how i interpreted it.

[@JoeticJustice]

Inhibiting the glass manufacturer’s ability to see the glass still falls under the fairness theme of the game however; since the character has the advantage of knowing which platform would be unsafe-a base form of fairness that would be unfair in all circumstances if the lights stayed on. If the manufacturer was first, then he would be able to easily assist everyone to the next stage; if he were last, then-assuming everyone prior would wing it-he would still have the advantage of knowing which glass is tempered and which wasn’t. Either way, it’s a guaranteed success for the manufacturer if the lights stay on; an unfair advantage in the eyes of the game. Though I do agree with you saying they Il-Nam is an exception to the fairness rule, as the factor of his supposed memory loss and regain and childhood experience with certain games indicated bias toward his character; which paid off in the end via the reveal of him being the true mastermind. (Though I’m the type to say Il-Nam truly did die at that game but he was a part of a wealthy family of triplets who read Gantz once and decided to make it a reality.)

[@hootowllps]

@@JoeticJustice I get what your saying! But to me, that means things like brute strength are also an unfair advantage for games like tug of war, yk? Plus, the masked guy only turned the lights off when one of the VIPs said it was boring, so it felt less about fairness and more entertainment.

[@youregonnaneedtothrowsomem2665]

The fairness was supposed to be about the system not giving handouts to any of the players, but even then, they still failed at it when they decided to hinder the glass manufacturers ability which he had before coming to the game.

[@radiofloyd2359]

@@youregonnaneedtothrowsomem2665 not only that, but to take the absurdity of them calling the games fair to an even greater degree, Sae Byeok is practically killed by glass shards that literally only blew up because the VIPs wanted a spectacle.

[@Manganization]

@@JoeticJusticethe games were never fair. The honeycomb episode pointed out the hypocrisy of that statement when one of the players argued why they all weren't given the exact shapes.

[@brennenmcwright6584]

Usually I agree with your reviews. However, I believe you may have misunderstood the point of the old man twist. Player 1 (the old man/ Il-nam) and Player 456 (Seong Gi-Hun) did not bet on luck, but on the ability of humans to do good. Il-nam was confident that humans do not care about their fellow humans and would continue walking. Gi-Hun, however, was confident in humanity. When the person gets the police, it proves that Gi-Hun’s faith in humanity was not misplaced. This is Gi-Hun’s overall arc. The games slowly chip away at Gi-Hun’s caring character, nearly driving him to kill Sang-Woo, but Sae-Byeok stops him from becoming a monster compared to his initial, compassionate self. Gi-Hun even refuse to kill Sang-woo after the amount of times that Sang-woo tried to kill him. That’s because Gi-Hun truly believes in humanity’s ability to do good. Gi-Hun’s win in the old man’s bet (perhaps considered the seventh game) proves the show’s entire message to be true: even though humans are capable of terrible things, you can still trust in humanity to do good.

[@thegamebazaar4871]

Yes! Love this.

[@roosterboots4684]

This scene also illustrates how people with power tend not to face real consequences. The old man lived his life enriching himself at the expense of others, never truly believing in humanity and dying seconds before being proven wrong. Gi-hun got in a tiny moral victory over a dead rich man and, whether or not the old man saw it in the end, nothing changes

[@LoveValentineXO]

@@roosterboots4684 yeah, the fact that he was in the game in general can really be seen as a slap to the face for all the other contestants who were battling with their lives to get out of poverty, while he was simply role-playing at poverty. He was absolutely giddy during the first game, hopping around the dead poor people around him. You think he's just confused because of his brain tumor, but then you realize he is just enjoying his advantage. He used a terrible experience in people's lives to get a thrill out of the last days of his life.

[@roosterboots4684]

@@LoveValentineXO Right, he's a class tourist who fetishizes the "noble struggle" of the poor

[@larryton09]

ending still sucks

[@CamSteady]

I believe your "plothole" analysis is a missing of the point of the show in general. The point of the game is that it is a facade of equal opportunity. The show demonstrates that there truly is no such thing as a fair competition, whether it's in the game or in the actual socio-economic structure. A debunking of capitalism. So the old man having what you describe as "in universe plot armor" is proving the point of the show. The game exists to pit those in poverty against eachother in a "fair" competition for the entertainment of the rich. It was never about an actual fair game.

[@clay1430]

I think it's less a "debunking a capitalism" but instead shows how the powerful and corrupt take control and use regular people for their entertainment and selfishness.

[@vysharra]

The movie references a very recent failed collective action following a large company’s ‘bankruptcy’ and major layoff (the strikers were violently attacked by police and the executives stole the pension without penalty). It was a super important event in S Korea for worker solidarity. I agree with your interpretation but want to add that ‘winning’ the game is a parallel to career success, since the MC lost his family and friends and had to destroy (kill) the competition to surpass them. Everyone could have gotten a (much smaller but still) life changing amount of money if they had cooperated but instead only one person will ‘win’ while everyone else (and their families) suffer even more. The old man wins too. The MC stays there and watches the homeless guy as part of the bet. So now our wealthy MC has become just another rich guy playing with lives instead of heading down stairs and trying to help. Money (and the pursuit of it - the game) corrupted the MC and now he’s going to selfishly play future games instead of using that money to help his family and his neighbors.

[@KevinMartinez-nl4if]

@@clay1430 Sure, but the series had a lot of anti capitalist subtext that I had clearly interpreted on my first watch through. Though I agree, “debunking capitalism” wasn’t so much its goal as critiquing the notion of equality under capitalism.

[@minch333]

Yeah, he got the idea that it was supposed to be fair from the black mask guy, but the black mask guy was supposed to represent the few working class people who get lucky and make a bunch of money, who then turn their backs on the working class in the need to believe the system is fair to feel superior. Being wealthy already, the old man was under no such pretensions

[@ajsharma8869]

Yeah exactly, and the point about Il-nam giving them a choice by being the final vote to send them home is bullshit. These people's choice is as follows: a slow death to poverty or a quick one in the game. Il-nam even lays this out himself! It's the same lie that capitalism uses when it says the poor have the choice to not work if they don't like the work they are doing. No they don't! It's life or death...so what do you think people are going to choose? That the contestants chose to return is merely an illusion. Practically speaking, they didn't have a choice

[@needlesslycritical6199]

In addition to him not being handcuffed during the tug of war game, I'm pretty sure when they show shots of the red light, green light game from the motion sensor's perspective, he's never highlighted unlike all the other players.

[@TheSecondVersion]

And the slaughter after lights out was halted by the Frontman after the old man begged them to stop. It's a bit more ambiguous before the reveal (maybe the Frontman was being compassionate), but it's a red flag

[@itschewsday5252]

There’s a lot of little hints that he was the master mind in the game.

[@radiofloyd2359]

@@TheSecondVersion Upon first watch I thought he stopped the game because the point was to drive one of them to desperation, at which point they would stop, so as to not kill literally everyone. An alternative reason could've also literally just been coincidence. With the recontextualization, though, I can see it being just because it was the old man.

[@KagamineRinVocaloid]

I'm sure that the special rule in the marble game (the one that let Mi-Nyeo skip the game) was aimed towards the old man. As he was old and didn't have enough strength, nobody would like to have him in his team. That would let him to be safe until the next game, but we already know how it ended lol

[@valromo5292]

@@KagamineRinVocaloid omg! I hadn’t thought about it that way!

[@lostcityofthicclantis7350]

I personally read the ending as, since he is now rich he has the choice to ignore the hundreds of people who are taken advantage of in the squid game. He could go to america, visit his daughter and probably live pretty comfortably for the rest of his life, but he chooses not too. He chooses to use not the money, but his experience and memories of being in the same low-class position as he was before winning the game to try and help people who may be sucked into squid game.

[@ivannas5540]

Exactly!!! Throughout the series it was clearly showcased that the rich were using their power and money for solely themselves, for their own greed and contentment. Gi-hun could do exactly that, go back to his daughter like you said and live a comfortable life for the rest of time, however he decides to sacrifice his own happy ending and help others out instead. He is breaking the cycle, because power doesn't have to be about putting others down but about lifting others up as well. And I wonder if there is some sort of implicit message about that in there with Il-nam. He said that the only time he found real joy was when he was playing the games with others, and especially Gi-hun who to him became a real friend, reason why he thanks for playing with him. Maybe it's being implied there that had he spent his time and money building happiness with and FOR others instead of only for himself he wouldn't have been so miserable his whole life. Think it's interesting and would definitely explain the reason why Gi-hun's compassion is highlighted so much during the show I think. Edit: In an interview for Netflix the director said that the main conflicting idea between Sang-woo and Gi-hun was that Sang-woo thought winners become so because they are able to beat out others, while Gi-hun thought winners were so because others were willing to help them along the way. I think the ending could be a manifestation of this idea.

[@dimitrescu182]

He could simply visit his daughter for like a month or even week before he starts his war against the game

[@Mafetan]

@@dimitrescu182 Except for the fact he KNOW'S a new game is about to start. He doesn't have time to wait, he needs to do everything in his power to stop it before more innocent people kill themselves for a prize that wasn't worth the risk.

[@louminouz]

im not a big fan of the ending either i think its still a little bit stupid that he just doesnt go and see his daughter but i do like how in character it is, gi huns character flaw (?) is that he puts emotion and morality above all else, his decisions are consistently kinda stupid but noble at the same time.

[@DrPonk]

@@louminouz I mean, you try living with the guilt of knowing that you, and perhaps only you have the chance to save lives, but choose not to for your own sake. A few drops of that blood end up on your hands. That's a hard thing to ignore.

[@sugarhoneybee2979]

I thought the old man was a perfect secret villain actually - he was unassuming and his relationship with gi-hun was heartwarming, but actually as a character there was no reason to trust him other than he was weak. His obvious joy in the games was a really unsettling clue I thought.

[@thanhtainguyen1499]

I don't like how Gi Hung joined the game to become a better father to his daughter, but just let her to leave to America without doing anything. You could argue he was mentally scarred at that moment but then later on he did it again and left her hanging AGAIN

[@OhFicial67]

I mean he's going to try to stop a crazy organization from killing poor people so that what happened to him never happens to someone else so I think he has a good reason. I just have no idea how he's gonna do it.

[@MrTREEHUNTER22]

But that's what he's always done He's always been too kind for his own good.

[@SVD63Ninja]

A big question to be asked here tbh is:"what if my daughter got that invitation and joined squid game?"

[@leseresa]

Got so mad about that

[@smxxthlion9759]

I knowwww! It was very unsatisfying.

[@IPODsify]

I mean, the problem with the American's acting is that they sound like text to speech programs, not that they were poorly characterized. I was entirely convinced that they were all dubbed over

[@imjstar]

Wait, were they not dubbed?

[@hanadulsayrom3485]

My friend's husband played one of the VIPs and he said they were told to act dumb and boarish so the audience would really hate them. I'm an actress here in Korea too and at least one reason for the awkwardness of the lines is because they were most likely originally written in Korean, then translated to English.

[@Elf_Pyro]

Im pretty sure they were dubbed over, there's a lot of moments where their mouths don't line up with what they're saying at all, and moments where it looks like they're talking but we can't hear anything

[@TibsisTops]

Film major here: they may have dubbed them for the same reason they dubbed all The Mandalorian dialogue: no one can hear shit from under a mask. Even the half-mask things could get in the way enough from them to decide to dub a better-quality recording later. Just a possibility.

[@nooffencebut8175]

Maybe you were entirely convinced that they were all dubbed over because they actually were...?

[@Maxisamo1]

1. The old man was faking half of his disabilities to manipulate people, and legitimately had twisted morals. 2. The person with the cops was the one who walked past the homeless man, meaning THEY went to go help them. 3. Gi-Hun loves his daughter but she is currently with a supportive family, while he himself knows a dark truth that poor people are being used and abused and he's one of the few people who knows and cares. 4. The unfair advantages are part of the criticisms of Capitalism (also he didn't have locks on his cuffs). 5. Gi-Hun helping the homeless man would not make the moral dilemma fair, as you could say him helping him was only to win the argument and not just an act of good will.

[@chinbrows6245]

Omg thank you, I didn't like this review at all. Seems like he wanted the title to be that "the ending of squid game was bad" for the clicks.

[@ayushdeshmukh284]

Besides, Gi-hun didn't have to help him during the bet at all;. It's not like all drunk homeless men die exactly at midnight. He would just go help after midnight, after losing the bet but still finding out why the old man did it.

[@marcosramirez2278]

I went back to look and the final bit of the tug-of-war scene when the players fall on their backs you can see the old man's locks on his cuffs clearly as his hands are in the air

[@曾華偉-l6g]

1. old dude is just an asshole and the show didn't execute well enough to justify the twist, like, at least make him not dying to show that he is willing to pee himself while not having brain problem or literally participate in the most luck base game. the twist is just force AF. 3. once again, execution problem, red hair boy have every reason to go back to the game, the show just didn't make that choice seem legit, it felt like a uncalculated cliffhanger.

[@MrAwesomeCreep]

Yeah this was off base for Schaff. It’s like he watched it in the background whilst doing other things.

[@MrGamelover23]

"In this moment, how is he any different from the VIPs?" Isn't that literally the point? You're supposed to be mad at him. The old man got him to watch someone die over a bet the same way he bet on horses. Sure, you might think that it being the catalyst for him trying to do good now contradicts this idea, but that wasn't the catalyst. The catalyst was seeing the businessman offering the business card to another unlucky victim. In other words, it could just be a revenge quest. Also, I'd be pretty out of it too if I just discovered that one of my closest friends from the death games was still alive, possibly too out of it to actually go help someone.

[@joshuab3918]

He'd already started doing good again before he saw the business card guy again. Adopting the brother and giving money to his friend's mother were both good things.

[@ReblazeGaming]

Tbf he didn’t help because the point of the bet was if humans have good in them. Him going down to help would’ve proved the old man’s point of humans not being good. Gi hun though truly believed someone would help and he won the bet. Not to mention the VIPs gained satisfaction from the suffering of the less fortunate, but Gi hun wanted someone to help him.

[@AnEmu404]

@@ReblazeGaming true, but Gi hun still engaged in a bet on a human life. He had the power to help the dying person, but instead he watched and waited to try and prove something to the old man. Regardless of intent, he played the game, making him just like the VIPs. Or at least, more corrupted. Someone in another comment said this, but the moment he took the bet was him playing into what the old man wanted, watching through the glass - even if he hoped the guy would survive, hope is not a guarantee. He could have seen the dying person, rejected the bet and left to help them, but he didn’t. That’s what could make him just another part of the cycle (maybe). Sorry for the paragraph, ahah.

[@ReblazeGaming]

@@AnEmu404 It’s been a while since I watched it but wasn’t the bet only until 12 midnight, or a certain time? He wasn’t going to leave him out forever, I assume that had no one come to help, Gi hun wouldn’t gone to help. I just think the “just like the VIPs” is a bit of a stretch. The VIPs viewed them as entertainment and only cared about losing money if someone died. And the people that ran the games purposefully put them in life and death situations for the fun of it. That’s not the same as Gi Hun hoping that someone will help a man on the street in a few minutes.

[@ursidae97]

People see the protag being a piece of shit and write him off. Then they see him showing love and care to others and they decide he's been redeemed, he's the Mockingjay now. They see him fuck up in contest and decide him surviving must be plot armor. But then they see him strategize carefully and decide he's a secret genius. The show is very carefully using him as a blank slate to make you think about yourself and some American viewers just do NOT know what to do with that. He's not the Mockingjay. He's pulled in all sorts of directions and he will never ever be the hero you think you deserve to see at the helm of this dystopian horror comedy. If they wanted a hero they wouldn't have made Squid Game

[@nicolasbalashenko3969]

Your point about Squid Games contradicting the rule of equal fairness amongst all participants with the old man needing to win the tug-of-war basically meaning his team was guaranteed to win, I am pretty sure was done purposely. I feel it signifies something to do with income ineqaulity and the poor's lack of control over their own destiny due to the rich's power, even when the odds should be fair or indicated to be so.

[@zoraroxas]

Yeah, hell every single game was unfair. In ep 6 or 7, it was revealed that those who were on the back of the first game didn’t make it because time ran out. The second game, those who got the umbrella were screwed. The tug of war DID mostly rely on strength so a team full of women were going to be at a disadvantage. The marble games were mostly based on luck, and the bridge was also luck, a literal 50/50 chance where it was impossible for the one that goes first to actually win. There wasn’t fairness in any of the games because anything that relies on luck can’t be entirely fair, and showed that with cunningness and smarts SOME people can overcome economic inequality and adversity (tug of war), but that it isn’t the likely outcome

[@byronsenior6499]

I think that's the point? They were all given the same opportunities to succeed. But the reality is everyone is different. Some people are smarter, more creative, luckier, stronger etc. The games were fair, but individual success was based on the individual. As oppose to real life where some people are just born into a higher status.

[@nicolasbalashenko3969]

@@byronsenior6499 Yeah of course thats obvious but i was commenting more on the aspect of that even the most skilled individuals, no matter how fairly distributed the game was, were unmatched by the representative of the highest wealth bracket (the old man) because he was rigged to win that round.

[@ayushdeshmukh284]

@@nicolasbalashenko3969 The old man was never rigged to cause others to lose. He couldn't personally die, but in all games he gave no unfair advantage to anyone.

[@nicolasbalashenko3969]

@@ayushdeshmukh284 in the tug of war, which is a game he chose, technically he did. but no i get your point for sure, that is true.

[@rjai5003]

“He couldn’t have resolved to stop this game after seeing her?” Honestly, I don’t think he could. It’s not like it would be a short trip, he’d be going to the other side of the planet. Just going to the US and back would take over a day, and he doesn’t know how long he has before the next game begins. If he went to see his daughter, hundreds of people could die before he had the chance to do anything

[@nicolaszan1845]

It doesn't _really_ matter when the next game begins, I reckon. He has no real way of finding out where the squid game people are and any planning would likely be doable during and after spending time with his daughter.

[@classiest]

@@nicolaszan1845 ehhh idk bout that last one chief. I don't think he'd be able to even enjoy the (likely limited) time with his daughter

[@BrianaLynn7]

i guess he could have at least CALLED her and said like something happend, the plane isn't taking off. he loves her. she would be wondering where he was for days/weeks/forever if he dies. ugh. at least give her a bit of love/closure.

[@Kabbaway]

@@BrianaLynn7 I mean, we don’t know that he didn’t call his daughter afterwards to let her know. The show ends with his phone call to Squid Game for dramatic effect. If he teamed up the cop (who is possibly not dead), the 20-ish contestants who opted out after Red Light Green Light and/or any other concerned loved ones who suspected something was up (the cop surely wasn’t the only one suspicious of their loved one’s disappearance) he might have a chance

[@BrianaLynn7]

@@Kabbaway it’s true. Just only makes sense in a story that nobody else has ever tried to stop it.

[@oppositeofbatman]

I'm pretty sure that the old man was actually ready to die in the games and that is why they didn't rig the tug of war game in his favour. He also wasn't really painted as a heartless and purely evil antagonist when he was revealed to be the host, more like a showcase of what money can do to a person. I do however agree that him being a twist villain was pretty pointless and didn't really add anything *game* changing to the story as a whole. Edit: turns out they did rig the tug of war game so maybe he was never at risk of dying

[@emalaw1329]

Even with the notion that he was actually ready to die it's still flimsy, because why not let the guard shoot him at the end of the marbles game, then? They needed him alive only to deliver the twist, feels like a plot device for its own sake

[@anni1348]

Nope the rich old man had a purpose, to showcase the differences and similarities between the poor and the rich people. I guess the point of the old man being the original creater of this deadly game was, because he got portrayed as an sweet, kind, innocent and caring character before, to show that there is no entirely good or bad Person when it comes to poor vs. rich people. All of them were in grey areas, they were all responsible for the deaths of other people, because they were fighting to survive and got rewarded for being ruthless, selfish and cruel (through the money), but they were still also kind people with needs, feelings and people they care about. The problem is the unfair system (aka capitalism) were they try to survive. Also the old man had cancer, and even his stupid money couldn't save him from that, he was ready to end his life because anything else seems hopeless and he basically brought the poor people at the same point through the traumatizing experiences they've made because of the game, and he did that just to have a fun time, which kinda shows his ignorence towards poor people (how they often experience discrimination and struggles because of unfair conditions such as being born into a poor family). And because he's rich he has the privilege to be ignorant about poor peoples struggles. Interesting enough just like the poor people in real life, experiencend the rich old man himself multiple times discrimination throughout the game, because the other players (except Gi-Hun) viewed him as weak, untrustworthy and kinda worthless (like "He's old, so he's going to die anyway, no need to take him seriously"). The difference is only that the poor peoples life's sucked because they didn't had the money to solve their problems, while the old man had all the money but couldn't solve his problems regardless of the money, its basically a recap to the beginning of the show: Where the new husband of Gi-Huns Ex-wife gives Gi-Hun money in order to keep him away from his family, and Gi-Hun throws the money at him, beats him and says "You think money can solve everything". If you would have paid attention you would have recognized that. At the end the rich man asks Gi-Hun "Do you still trust people after all you have seen through the game?", because the people in the game were all becoming more and more ruthless and selfish, even Gi-Hun almost reached this point. But he still showed empathy and humanity instead. Gi-hun asks him "Why did you spared my life?" and the old man says "because it was Fun to play with you", but I guess actually the reason his life got spared was, because Gi-Hun showed humanity and was mostly supportive and kind towards Oh Ill-nam in the game.

[@Kelarys]

@@emalaw1329 he threw the 4th round to let Mc win, clearly he had him completely downloaded, and even admitted he knew Mc was cheating, so I think its more likely he faked the senility. I would accept them picking games that he would be able to win (except he almost didn't finish round 2, or know what it was since he got the star) To keep things fair, sure they still should have killed him, but whatever Actually I think it's more likely that the doctor was killed so there would be an odd number of people, with the assumption that nobody would choose the useless old man. This would have been done purely by the guy in charge in his absence, without his consent. Old man was probably willing to die but his protégé wanted to save him if possible. He might have even been upset that he wasn't killed when he lost, but who knows

[@emalaw1329]

@@Kelarys the odd number thing makes sense, but still, at that point they only really needed the old man to deliver the twist, so I still feel like the guard sparing him defeats the purpose of him joining the game in the first place in favor of a plot device, which is kinda lame.

[@paprika6113]

They actually did rig the tug of war in his favour. If you look closely at the game, you'll see that he doesn't have locks on his shackles like the other players do so he could slip out of them if needed.

[@MrMythul]

You failed to understand the entire final episode. The police wasn't a random coincidence, the woman who walked by earlier was with them. The advantage that il nam has isn't a plot hole, it's an allegory for the rich having more advantages than the poor.

[@benzur3503]

The point in Oh Il Nam being revealed as an orchestrator of the game isn’t to say “he was the real bad guy all along!” The point was that the perception of mankind as necessarily cruel and selfish just makes people nihilistic and empty. I agree with you that Gi Hun helping the homeless would’ve been the better way to write it, but it’s not a character that is evil in this show. It’s the system, and the ideology that perpetuates it. Not because of a specifically evil person, but because Oh Il Nam genuinely believes it’s pointless to actively help people since everyone are necessarily asshole he becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The self fulfilling prophecy of “people gonna try to screw me, so I have to screw them first or I’ll die” is the real critique of capitalism that the show tries to make. It doesn’t make it the best possible way, and Gi Hun entering back into the game just feels... really dumb of him? What’s that going to change? Convincing people to leave the game? Trying to convince soldiers to rebel? Eh, cheap sequel bait. Other than that it’s a pretty nice 8.5/10 show in my book

[@benzur3503]

Also it was a passerby calling the cops and not just the cops helping the homeless, so it’s sort of a middle ground between good action and just mildly alright minimal care for people (not to speak of the fact that it’s not a good universal solution for the situation, but I genuinely don’t know anything about the general conduct of South Korean police regarding homeless people)

[@vivien3630]

@today was a good day stfu

[@simeonwashington9995]

Yeah, I was really hoping he'd go visit his daughter as planned.

[@Kelarys]

Mc going back definitely dragged it from a 9.5/10 to an 8.5/10 for me. It also feels like old man might have been thinking that people should only be helped when they can help themselves

[@JonnyfromElma]

Gi-Hun helping the man himself would be wrong IMO. Him seeing the man get helped is what actually snaps him out of his stupor. We know, as the audience, that Gi-Hun would normally go and help the man himself. The point of the scene is that Gi-Hun doesn't realize that now. The man being helped and Gi-Hun realizing that, in that moment he cared more about winning the bet than helping the person, is what motivates his change back from morally apathetic back to good. I dont have a problem with the twist villain much, but Gi-Hun abandoning his responsibility to his daughter to go back to the game is a dogshit and out of character decision.

[@Powersd451]

"Why didn't he go to save the homeless man himself?" While the thought came to me too, the point of that 'game' was whether our protagonist still trusted that people can do the right thing and not just look out for themselves. The bigger point that episode makes is that not even the guy at the top of the exploitative system is actually made happy by it. He's has been so jaded by life, he has accepted that people will hurt each other for personal benefit and all you can do is look out for yourself. If you actually make it and become rich and powerful at the prize of hundreds of people dying miserably, don't concern yourself with them. Don't think about how much suffering the system brings, just try to enjoy yourself with what you've gained. But as we see from the old man himself, that didn't actually bring him any joy. All that suffering was truly pointless. Meanwhile, our protagonist never accepted this ideology even when he came out on top. He refuses to use the money, because he rejects the idea that he shouldn't care about what it took to gain it. Then, he implicitly concludes that even though he acquired all this money by benefitting from an unjust system, he should use it to help those suffering under it. Finally, seeing and realising that others are still being pulled into this cruel system, he decides to attack it directly to stop the meaningless suffering. It's a critic of our capitalist system, and the people at the top trying to justify why they should lead lavish lives at the cost of millions of people pushed into poverty.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

Also I don’t think he was allowed to. The game was about which philosophy would win. Gi-Hun’s philosophy or the old man’s. The game was between them and Gi-Hun wasn’t allowed to prove him wrong. He had to have someone else do it to prove the old man wrong.

[@Anthony-sn2xr]

Thank you!

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

I don't think you know how captlisitm works

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

Because wealth is not genrated through taking it from someone else

[@ultrachadstinctgoku7579]

Yea. I was mad he didnt go see his daughter but these last few minutes bro. The fact that people were still playing the game and OH MY GOD SEASON 2 JUST COME.

[@lovepink5501]

I know you kind of hate twist villains, but if you’re whole focus is on the TWIST, I think you miss out on all the great subtext and commentary that is happening. The plot DOES make a difference when you know the old man is in on it. In terms of your critiques about the Old Man having plot armour in the games and therefore their stance on fairness being in question: I think that’s the whole point? Rules don’t apply to the Rich, so while the poor/desperate people are told to play the game, be fair or you’ll be punished, the rich guy can bypass all the rules, and even when he “loses” the game, like with the marbles, he still wins. The moment he showed up on screen, I had my suspicions about him, and by the second episode, I knew for sure he was in on it. I don’t think the twist was pointless, imo, they built up 001 and 456 as opposing forces from the beginning (first number vs last number, rich vs poor, and yet both entering the game having nothing left to lose). I think the emotional beats still work because the characters don’t know the twist and their relationship still happened and they still impacted each other. That being said, I do still have some critiques regarding the ending, because it was pretty convenient for Il-nam to die right after he gets his last words with Gihun, etc. But I do think their relationship still holds up overall, especially if you picked up on all the forshadowing ahead of time.

[@colboy1fish]

I picked up on it when he got "shot". his death was the first to happen off screen in a series that made it no secret when characters died. I immediately thought that was odd.

[@kierantheninja3008]

It would be interesting to see if Oh Il-Nam hadn't died at midnight would Gi-Hun have killed him? He seemed pretty angry. But we saw him offer San-Woo forgiveness even after his misdeeds.

[@byronsenior6499]

Didn't the guy from Pakistan also get shot off screen?

[@luxthewriter]

Byron Senior But he was shown in a coffin at the start of the next episode

[@Angie-ji7be]

@@colboy1fish I'm pretty sure Ali was the first off-screen death, since it cuts off right as the soldier pulled the trigger. And honestly, since both Ali and Il-nam were eliminated back-to-back, I was practically begging that I didn't have to see Il-nam's "death" on-screen either. I really thought the show was just taking it easy on us so that we didn't have to see the two seemingly kindest and most innocent characters' brains being blasted off on-screen. Honestly, I thought that was brilliantly executed. (edit) Or... brilliantly **not** executed I guess

[@timharbrecht357]

Good review, but there are a couple of plot holes: 1. The old man couldn't lose in tug of war because he wasn't attached to the rope. So if they actually lost, he wouldn't fall to his death 2. This is something I haven't heard anyone talk about, but the stranger who checked the homeless guy out earlier was giving directions to the police officer

[@Scaryland42]

How would the other contestants react to him surviving? Edit: I realized they could have just pretended to shot him

[@justaguywhowatchesyoutube5588]

Yeah but, wouldn’t anyone get suspicious of the fact that He’s the only contestant to not wear handcuffs?

[@Sammy-me8mi]

I feel like the way that the game preaches “equality” but then turns it’s back on the idea and shows complete hypocrisy was purposeful. It’s similar to how nations, governments, etc. will say that there is equality but the 1% doesn’t live under those same rules. It’s subtle but (I think) definitely purposeful because of the lengths that the creator went to just to make us see how much they “care about equality”. (An entire side plot that doesn’t last very long but only acts as a way to tell this idea)

[@sorenkair]

Those are the front man's ideals. It's why he decided to help run the game after winning. The old man is just there to have his version of fun like the VIPs.

[@gravynavy516]

That's the point, Capitalism (in this case the game) preach equality and meritocracy but in reality it's the opposite

[@nicolaszan1845]

This is a rather shit way of transmitting that message though. If that was a core theme that the series wanted to explore, how they actually went about it is pretty awful and rather confusing. The old man doesn't actually win the game, we never get confirmed the idea that he did have plot armor, it's only a logical assumption, and one of the actual contestants does receive the money in the end, which would absolutely be a story of excruciatingly painful success, but success at last.

[@botkarma5753]

@@gravynavy516 You're talking about Corporatism, not Capitalism.

[@gravynavy516]

@@botkarma5753 it's sad you think that

[@arixyz9301]

I don't get why everyone says the old man and the marbles was their breaking point. I accidentally read a comment that kind of spoiled the "twist" for me.. so maybe that affected my opinion but the two girls playing marbles broke me. When she said she had nothing to go home for. And lost on purpose..she had such a rough life and she was still so sweet and selfless. That was the most heart wrenching 💔 scene for me.

[@lototheflo9640]

Yoooo I have the same exact feeling. I had been suspecting the old man as the boss since around the middle episodes (when he was crying to stop the madness during the blackout and the showrunners actually listened!!) but that scene with the two girls and the one sacrificed herself made me want to bawl my eyes out. And then every time she said “we should go there when we get out” made me want the main character girl to win just so she could visit those places with her new dead friend in mind

[@Christophercreader]

I totally agree!! The fact that 067 wanted her to throw the marble again really comes to show her selflessness and humanity when could’ve easily taken that opportunity to save herself and take advantage of her kindness!!

[@Christophercreader]

*she

[@AndreaS4D_]

FACTS. Even if I didn't know that the old man was the host or whatever, I knew he was eventually gonna die so I wasn't that attached to him. But Ji-yeong death made me cry as a child. I didn't cried when Saebyok died, even if I thought she was going to win, but the thought of her not being able to achieve her promise to Ji-yeong, that makes me a little sad every time I think about it. I know it's not gonna happen, but my heart needs an AU where they both are alive and just living adventures together idk, I'll miss them:(

[@BurgerBoi1]

"Kang Sae-Byeok! Thanks.... For playing with me" That broke my heart 😭

[@azok6485]

Everyone acting up cuz he "doesn't" care about his daughter. His daughter has a pretty nice life. She obviously wasn't comfortable next to him and had a nice home with her mom and her step-dad. His daughter might need her dad. But she already has a father figure and a alright life. The poor people being killed in the games need help and our protagonist sees that.

[@aaa5126]

Besides he went through a lot of trauma, he's not going to be the same 'dad', his world view changed

[@watakashe6072]

FR

[@JoNarDLoLz]

True but what is he actually going to do? We've seen that people who had unfair advantages were publicly hanged (we dont know if this rule applies to the previous winners), and his first time playing was him getting carried the entire time. The only game he won was the carving thing, and even then most players actually won that.

[@Sliacen]

Also can't forget the fact that Gi-hun was told to "get on the plane" while he was on the walkway, meaning that he was being watched one way or another. Him not going to America gave his daughter the best chance of being safe.

[@toni4157]

@@Sliacen omg I didn’t even think about that but yeah, having him away from his daughter in America might make her safer, but it may also open the opportunity to use her as leverage if Gi-Hun starts doing shit

[@amberl6133]

i think we (especially as western viewers) are so used to having endings tied up and resolved but i think the show illustrates how complex human relationships and the desire to survive can be. player one, although we root for him is an example of how rich people can be personable while also cruel and creating something as messed up as squid game. i think gi-hun not becoming a better father after the game is an accurate representation of the effect of ptsd on someone who literally saw 400+ people brutally murdered. in reality its extremely difficult for people to break toxic patterns, especially after additional trauma. he was not a good father before he went into the game, and having money at the cost of so much death did not make him a better person. also it demonstrates how internalized capitalist and competitive values can become even when we are consciously aware and critical of them.

[@Rikrobat]

Gi-hun was also involved in a labour riot earlier in life, which is brought up during the stake-out. Him deciding to rebel against the system is not out of left field or disappointing; it fits him quite well.

[@justanotherhumanuser3145]

@@Rikrobat "Labor riot" It's called a strike.

[@Rikrobat]

@@justanotherhumanuser3145 - in summaries of the event, it was termed a labour riot, so that’s the terminology I’m going to use.

[@Doodlebob108]

Honestly I feel like this twist is perfect. To everyone else it was a fight for their life. To him it was just a game because he was bored.

[@Jablinnn]

001 wanted a thrill before he died. Therefore he didn’t rig the games for his own benefit. If he rigged the games he wouldn’t have the thrill of death. Maybe the game makers did rig the games for him, but 001 didn’t want the games to be rigged.

[@janseanmarwyn4703]

The game makers actually did rig it for him An example is him not having locks in the Tug of War, or him being straight up not killed in the marble challenge

[@PapaSkwat]

also he was never scanned during the Red Light Green Light game

[@wordswordswords24]

@@janseanmarwyn4703 Actually if you review the footage he does have the locks in tug of war, he couldn't have missed it and everybody else would notice too. However he was not fully scanned during red light green light so he couldn't have died then.

[@benzur3503]

I don’t think he really cared about the game being rigged or not in his favor, there’s always the option that the caretaker lied about not caring for the organ smuggling and just used “equality” as an excuse to make an entertaining murder instead of letting a contestant keep fucking up the game and making it too easy to be entertaining

[@inflatedrat]

@OwO how dare you betray us with not spam of KZbin videos

[@thehillisalive]

To be honest, the "twist" that pissed me off more was the frontman's identity. It was straight-out-of-a-soap-opera level of predictable.

[@mreverything7056]

As soon as I saw he lived through a bullet the shoulder, and was breaking HIS OWN RULES to his brother, I immediately said “Oh that’s his brother isn’t it”. Also, I dunno how he survived without a doctor to treat him. I think I would’ve liked if Vigil (yes I call Front Man Vigil) just never showed his face.

[@thehillisalive]

@@mreverything7056 my boyfriend and I guessed it when he found the records of past winners and his brother was the one from 2015

[@michaelangst6078]

so what?? the main character winning the whole thing was the worst part to me when it comes to being predictable

[@mreverything7056]

@@thehillisalive Ye that’s actually good foreshadowing

[@mreverything7056]

@@michaelangst6078 Ye well I would write that off because of course MC-Kun is gonna win (I know he’s Korean not Japanese)

[@chrisblake2629]

Gi-hun in the Airport was realizing for the first time that not only was his game not the only game but that the death of the old man didn't stop future games, so i think we can forgive him for freaking out a bit.

[@ole2744]

My favorite character is Ali. Ali is literally just wanted to save his family, and be kind as it is possible. And when the betrayal happens, it was so much for me. Seeing the rock in the bag and Sang-Woo's cold face. But it was whatever then. Ali's story ends here, erased out of the series. He deserved the most, but he got the worst ending from society.

[@FishDinners]

I really liked that he was an illegal immigrant. His betrayal seems like a metaphor for how poor native-born people will throw poor immigrants under the bus when instead they should have solidarity

[@kimchi2093]

I think the fact that his Korean is so simple adds to his character. It makes him seem more naive and innocent, like a child.

[@randompanda2391]

Ali is one of my favorite characters but I really didn't expect him to win from the beginning onwards. You know fan favorites always die

[@CoWinkKeyDinkInc]

@@FishDinners he wasn't an illegal immigrant

[@shravan1005]

@@CoWinkKeyDinkInc he was an immigrant who wanted to get to pakistan with his wife and son but they killed him

[@alexandra8833]

Just a small side note; the people helping the homeless man on the street were police officers, but it wasn't random that they drove by. The woman that bent down next to the homeless guy before and ended up walking away was the one that called them. You can see her getting out of the car along with the officers when they come to help. I agree that it should have been Gi-hun that went to help him, and I kind of expected that to happen as well. But the police car wasn't a coincidence and it was a person who acted out of kindness that helped.

[@nicolaszan1845]

At the same time, the idea that it was "dumb luck" that saved the man is not that erroneous at all even with the policemen being there for a reason. We see a lot of people pass the man by until finally one woman decides to help. The fact she of all people was going through that sidewalk specifically at that time is incredibly lucky for him, given it seems most other people won't actually do anything about it.

[@cringyhuman3210]

@@nicolaszan1845 but that proves that some people still care

[@auraguard0212]

By making it a gamble, Il-Nam tricked Gi-Hun (the smoothbrain) into not helping.

[@robloxplayer2585]

if the main character helped it would show that only he was selfless/a good guy

[@moviemoment247]

The one thing I fully agree about in this critique is the detective. That amounted to nothing, for this season at least. All that anxiety I experienced of him sneaking around was for nothing. And if it's for a set up later, I'm not feeling that interested.

[@Jill4ChrisRedfeild]

I doubt he's dead. His brother had the same shot wound and lived, so I think he'll come back in season 2.

[@royalscholar7504]

His brother also got treated and didn't take a 50+ foot tumble into an ocean to,,,, what? Swim back to civilization without a scuba set?

[@waltuh2.3bviews3secondsago3]

It was meant to he a movie but to make it a series they needed more screentime and plotlines so that's something they added

[@floresdeisla]

The only way I could see it as a set up for later is that maybe the photos and videos he sent to his police crew did go through and more of them will start investigating in his honor. But even then, I was really upset that the detective himself got killed off -- he was so interesting and I really enjoyed how he sneaked around while the games were occurring.

[@paradoxzee6834]

The photos and videos may still be send, there was a weak signal after all the cop reached the police station with his call.

[@K_B48]

The homeless guy was actually helped by a stranger, the same stranger that tried to help but then left, she left to get the cops to help

[@DrTLEvans]

Anyone who has lost a parent can relate to Gi-hun grieving and falling off the grid for a year. I know I did. Your new norm hits harder around this time of the year, too.

[@michaelv1051]

Especially because he was making the money partially to pay for her medical bills and get her help.

[@OhWowThatsDumb]

Ok BUT when you are tasked with essentially keeping a child alive for your dead friend, abandoning them for a year isn’t the best thing to do

[@michaelv1051]

@@OhWowThatsDumb that’s true. I think it wasn’t the Bess decision but at the same time we don’t know what was going on in The 1 year ts.

[@BluAphr]

@@OhWowThatsDumb trauma does a lot to you

[@sunshineyrainbows13]

Anyone who can empathize WITH SEVERE TRAUMA wouldn't judge the man for falling off.

[@dakotahernandez9511]

As everyone else has said, you see the person who is in the backseat of the police car is the same person who checked on the homeless man and walked away. At first, we are led to believe that the person doesn't care, they pickpocketed the homeless person, and/or the homeless person is actually dead. However, when the person returns with the cops, we see that good still exists in the world which (in theory) motivates the protagonist to do good things too.

[@nicolasbalashenko3969]

this is also perfectly complemented with evil in the manifestation of the old man dying at the same time

[@FallenSanityG]

I definitely didn't interpret the old man as just wanting to have fun once we learn he's the benefactor - he knew he was going to be safe the entire time. He may not have been actively laughing at the misery around him, but he literally designed these games and the methods in which people were going to die, in order for him to have fun. Even looking at the voting scene - he cast the deciding vote, sure, but he also basically talks the main character into going back. He didn't do it to let people leave, he did it because it's more fun to see who's still willing to come back. They still kept tabs on people after all, they still wanted to see who they'd get for the next game. It wasn't benevolence, it was yet another game to the old man.

[@YorkJonhson]

Yeah, Il-nam can try to justify it to himself that he never forced anyone to come back to the game, but he actively sought out completely desperate people looking for an out and took advantage of that for his own twisted amusement. And it all starts with hundreds of contestants being gunned down in cold blood without them even realizing what kind of game they had signed up for.

[@FallenSanityG]

@@YorkJonhson I imagine many people after the finale have forgotten that the first game was a surprise. Yes, the contestants knew it was violent *after* that game, but 255 people didn't get to choose to leave. They didn't know it was life-or-death. Il-nam and any other conspirators took that right away from them, and exploited it. The idea that anyone, especially Schaff, can still feel anything but contempt for the old man is boggling.

[@HxH2011DRA]

@@FallenSanityG just shows the power of bias. I mean there are still elon musk fans even though he's literally said supervillain shit like "we'll coupwhoever we want!" In public no less

[@mnif001]

There have been many clues throughout the show: him still playing along to Red Light Green Light, his "murder" being hidden from the audience, even him voting to stop the game to play a mind game with the other contestants. So while the reveal made me sad, it didn't surprise me. It actually also shows that we never really know the person we think we trust: even the purest man from the outside can hide disturbing secrets

[@lukethelegend9705]

Him smiling for the entirety of red light green light was a dead give away

[@thedudewhomadethisvideo]

Also during the riot when they didn't have enough food, he stood on the bed asking everyone to stop killing each other and the front man sees this and then tells the staff to go in and stop it

[@nomdeplume2213]

I dnt think him stopping it was mind games, i think he gave everyone one more chance to back out, to ease his conscious.

[@lookatthat2438]

@@nomdeplume2213 exactly, his final conversation 'i never forced anyone to play' wouldnt work if he voted to continue the games, he knew at the end they would return, thats why the masked guy was still keeping in touch with the other contestants that didnt return. Dude has being doing this for ages, he probably knows how the human mind works

[@anitaremenarova6662]

He didn't play any "mind games" when voting. He simply wanted to let them out and give them a chance to bail on this madness.

[@TulipsinAntartica]

Oh man, I wonder why Schrafillas did not like the reveal *Thinks for 5 seconds* Oh yeah, twist villains.

[@tsunami3963]

That was his mistake

[@lukethelegend9705]

In ho being the front man was a pretty good one tho

[@shireenrazak7160]

@@lukethelegend9705 it was a pretty obvious twist

[@gabbycatice5582]

I watched the show knowing the old man had rigged the game, and it made the experience better for me imo. He probably would've been better as the known villain of the show so he could have more time spent on his motivations

[@CallMeVidd]

I mean the director could’ve made the twist so much better So honestly *IT WAS HIS MISTAKE*

[@jacoblangdon7333]

"Is there really anyone this attached to the main character? " Yes, yes there is

[@oeospdocix]

That was kinda dumb on Schaffrillas end. There are lots of people that were attached to the main character.

[@hieutruong7456]

@@oeospdocix Fuck the main characters all my homies hate the main character, bring back Ali or the gay girl and we're getting somewhere

[@pygmybrain5868]

@@hieutruong7456 Lol, the gay girl... wait, which one?

[@oeospdocix]

@@hieutruong7456 What's wrong with me main character?

[@phatlewt2932]

i wanted the four eyed jerk to win because it would've been too predictable if the deadbeat dad or the north korean girl won

[@g.3262]

9:22 Actually, Il-Nam has a way to survive in every 6 games. Red Light Green Light, he didn't have a green overlay from the tracking sensors. Honeycomb, the remaining players were shot after the survivors left which he could've too. Tug of War, it was shown that his lock on the rope was unlockable. Marbles, he pretended to be sick and such to skip the game just like 212 woman but suddenly picked by Gi-hun which he sacrificed himself instead.

[@harlequincat]

but then, what about the ropes. If he had not fallen off, would that not have been noticed by the other players that were watching?

[@whatisthis1958]

@@harlequincat That's a good point.

[@harlequincat]

also, are'nt the vip's watching as well, they don't know the old man is actually one of them. When 001 was "shot" out of view of 456 in game 6, did not the vip's see what happened there?

[@maximusthedude8305]

@@harlequincat Well, that’s probably why he told his team how to win the game. I assume that if he had not fallen with them then the soldiers would have just let him live and join the others, but obviously he tried to prevent that scenario as much as he could

[@whatsagoodnamecauseidkhone3789]

@@harlequincat I guess the guards could just wait until the rest of the team had fallen down, leaving him all alone up there, then just be like "oh whoops lol forgot to lock that one", pretend to shoot him and then drag him out of there in a coffin (like pretty much what I expect they've done in the Marbles episode sans probably the coffin part)

[@pepperzark3477]

I feel like criticizing how there were unfair advantages when involving the old man is, partially, missing the point of the show. If the show is about capitalism, classism, and generally how we are nothing more than "entertainment" for the rich who also frame our fellow people as the antagonists, then unfair advantages are a thing that is witnessed, that is the foundation of capitalism, it's an unfair advantage.

[@GormTheElder]

Yeah. One of the characters even directly points out that most of the games disadvantages women, and the notion of all of this being "voluntary" is kinda laughable. This too is a jab at the idea that the capitalism that we know is meritocratic and that we get what we deserve: for some people, the game is rigged.

[@Sevenerem]

@@GormTheElder yeah i never got the impression that the game was voluntary, even after all the contestants came back, more like they were being coerced into participating in a brutal system because they didn't feel they had much of a choice.

[@LadyStoneheart34]

The whole argument of "the old man even being in the game is a plot hole" doesn't really hold up. People have already mentioned the lack of locks on his wristbands in the tug o' war game, but also, the leftover space from the marbles game. The odd number creating an extra space was meant for the old man to exit unsuspiciously. He knew he would never make it past the glass game anyway, and there'd be no way for the guards to save him from that. Therefore, he always knew he was going to exit the game before the glass game. He probably assumed that no one would pick him for the marbles game, he would be the odd one out, and they would carry him away with everyone assuming he was "eliminated." A nice, clean exit from the game that no one would find suspicious and he would still be alive without compromising the integrity of the game. However, he does get picked and that complicates things to where we get that messy "dead/but not dead" thing. It was all clearly planned out for him to exit before the glass game, but Gi-hun's unexpected kindness throws a wrench into his plan.

[@cenouraroxa9184]

The marbles game number was only odd because the doctor was killed before, though.

[@wynandt2]

I can clearly see at least 1 lock on one of the old man's wrist though. Episode 4, 46:36. As the camera pans over the protagonist's team while they're leaning back, there is a lock on the old man's left wrist

[@Ray03595]

i agree its not a plothole. But the doctor wasn't supposed to die so there shouldve been even numbers for marbles. Unless they knew the whole time the doc was cheating, which there isn't really a hint of. they seemed caught off guard and didn't know who all the players of the organ harvesting was.

[@garlicbread4792]

That wasn't the plan though, the only reason they had an odd number was because the doctor died right before the marble game so Ilnam was meant to participate in it.

[@danb9028]

The problem is let's assume that the old guy wasn't chained to the rope. If Gi-Hun's team had lost he would've let go of the rope and walked away? And that wouldn't have looked suspicious at all?

[@aton667]

I really don't think this scene was supposed to be a twist villain reveal, not everything is disney lol. It explored closure, class, and the gaping hole in Gi-hun's heart. Yes, he ignored his promises for a year. And he was going to not only let a man die in the cold, but do it over a cheap game. He's our hero, but Gi-hun is NOT a morally righteous man. His flaws are at the root of this story's themes "How is he any different" he isn't, and him realizing that is why he can change and get better Also come now, the game was never fair. It stopped being fair when they started chopping the group in half, or forced a riot, or *willingly allowed* the organ trafficking until the point it crossed the line and interfered with a player's ability to play. The bridge game could have killed all of them and that would have been that. 'Fairness' was only ever a weapon with which the rich could bludgeon the poor for stepping out of line

[@judefliegler1745]

Oh god, thank you! Yes to all of this. Gi-Hun is addicted to gambling. It's an essential part of his character. That's why he joins Squid Game, that's why he eventually returns, and it's why he bets on the drunk man. You're right, he is no different than the VIPs. It's easy to imagine a different timeline in which Gi-Hun becomes super rich by betting on horses, realizes he's still not happy, and transitions to betting on people. This is an explicit point that the show is trying to make! Money seems like the gateway to happiness, but it corrupts your soul. It leaves you empty and joyless. This is what happened to the cop's brother, who became rich by winning Squid Game, but never found happiness. He probably thought he could find joy in Squid Game, like the old man and the VIPs, so he became the Front Man. This is what happened to the old man! Betting on Squid Game still never made him happy. The only thing that brought him joy was actually playing Squid Game because it felt like his childhood, which was a time before he was corrupted by wealth. The final message of the show is super simple: money can't buy happiness. Except it's also a critique of the modern world, specifically capitalism and wealth inequality, which is extreme in South Korea. The ending was a bit hack just to set up the next season, but I will forgive it because it is otherwise a very good show.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

I mean if I watched 455 people die, several of whom I cared about, had my best friend die so I could live, only for me to come home to my daughter gone and my mother dead, I would be frozen for a year too. PSTD makes it so you cannot move or do anything. Gi Hun was completely traumatized by what happened.

[@spookyho5994]

@@judefliegler1745 THISS

[@phuct4980]

This is why I disagree with what this video is about, I seen this experience before with my family suffering for the elite to buy things while we scraped the barrel for a living. This whole series represents the real world, fairness don’t exist, the big companies or government only change when their bottom line is in danger or their PR is stunted by negative criticism that lead to less people investing in them and punish them for it. To the rich it all a game until bad decisions basically make them prey to bigger predators, the end is not a twist more of a enforcing the point that yes most of the rich people don’t care much about others, they care about the profit and way to make it. Of course there are exceptions to this statement but just that exception, rare in between the bad and the infamous.

[@Anthony-sn2xr]

Yes! Thank you! I don't get why he didn't get it

[@panlis6243]

I think the bet about the homeless man was suppoused to highlight that even in this hellish world there are still good people who will help out those in needs. I think if Gi-hun himself helped that man it would lose it's power since it's established by this point that he feels guilty about winning the game and it would be pretty clear that he's doing it just to feel better about himself

[@mertarican5456]

Watching a homeless freeze to death because of a bet is even worse though. That would be what a gambler do just to win.

[@panlis6243]

@@mertarican5456 maybe it hints that Gi-Hun still has that gambler's side somewhere in him? Tho, I can see why people might not like this scene

[@IreFang]

@@panlis6243 why not just show the gambler side of him throw a actual gamble.

[@ursidae97]

I suppose that's a valid take but I wouldn't mind. Perhaps the point is that we should take every advantage we can and then use them to help each other instead of being selfish

[@MCAPrince]

I do feel like this twist ending is actually kinda perfect. It shows how rich people sometimes like to LARP as poor people for a day to see what it is like. Pretend they have the same issues. Like Grimes LARPing as a communist for a day, or CEO's working as a manual labourer for a day, only to return to their privilege the next. Oh Il-Nam is a perfect example of this, when he feels actually in danger or threatened he can end the game (for himself) whenever he wants to (like during the fights at night, the marble game, and the tug-of-war with the lack of cuffs). Yet the struggle is real for all the other people.

[@lounowell4171]

middle class people do this too, they just call it camping

[@papasscooperiaworker3649]

@@lounowell4171 yeah but camping still provides you with shelter and food and water. comparing homelessness to camping is stupid. And besides camping is for leisure (NOT to see what it's like to live as a homeless person and have fun with temporarily living like that), homelessness is because you don't have a choice and you're going to be sleeping coldly on some floor near spikes

[@lounowell4171]

​@@papasscooperiaworker3649 people camp to see what it's like to temporarily live without electricity/running water/shops/etc... (for leisure) some people don't have a choice to live like that rich people pulling publicity stunts like this is just a reaction to complaints that they don't know what it's like to be poor so they're like "ok, I'll try to understand" and then you make fun of them for trying haha

[@msjkramey]

@Lou Nowell I grew up in an area that was prone to blackouts from hurricanes and tropical storms, and no one wanted to fund more weather resistant power lines. We had to grill and use lanterns and improvise food preservation out of necessity. But we also liked camping as a family. You can do one without pretending it's the other. Your argument is like saying cyclists are just cosplaying as people without cars. Just because someone has to do it doesn't mean that it can't be enjoyed. Plenty of poor people enjoy camping, too, and that gear we had saved our asses more than once

[@lounowell4171]

@@msjkramey I'm not the one criticising people here, apply your same defence of camping to rich people spending a day working in the labour force of their company. My point is just trying out a more minimalistic lifestyle for a day and then returning to your relative prosperity doesn't make you a bad person, it's more complicated than that, regardless of how wealthy you are or aren't.

[@lauraradio2]

Personally, I think the deathbed scene is Oh Il-nam’s way of showing Gi-hun that they are now the same. They’re betting on a game and watching the outcome - mirroring what we see in the final game with the VIPs. And while I definitely agree with you that I was expecting Gi-hun to go and help him I think the fact that he doesn’t is the push that he needed to get his life back together. He sees that not everyone is horrible, something he has clearly been struggling with since being a part of the game and watching a childhood friend murder in front of him. He acknowledges that he can do good much like the person who helps the homeless man.

[@lounowell4171]

the true hero of the story was random blonde bystander

[@ravimanne8148]

Yeah, that's how I felt to. Gi han needs some level of personal proof that there is some good in humanity. That he too can embody what his fellow people do. If it's just himself in a cruel world (which realistically it's not but this guy just went through so so much that he's probably extremely depressed) he pretty much feels that it's not worth trying and thus gives up.

[@uenoyamakamishiro7646]

Having gi-hun help would beat the point of the bet. The bet is if people can be inherently kind for the sake of kindness alone without context or anything. That blond woman succeeded in that point, as despite not knowing any bets nor not knowing anything about said homeless drunk, she still called a police car to drive him somewhere safer. If gi-hun did save the drunk, it would mean that he saved him for the sake of proving the old man wrong, NOT for the sake of kindness itself. The plot twist thing was never meant to be “game changer” as we still learn in the end that the games still continue. Its purpose is to break Gi-Hun and give him a second purpose. First to break him that despite everything that he did, he still managed to see worse. That the old man that stayed with him from the start actually saw the world worse than he does now. But he found a second purpose when he won that last bet. He saw that people CAN be kind without any form of compensation or sacrifice. That people can change or be selfless for the sake of being selfless itself. Its how he finds the strength to not go to his daughter and instead break the games himself for the potential season 2. He’s doing it to protect the people that would have to sacrifice whatever they can for the sake of something superficial. It’s not vengeance, but justice and kindness this time. That was the purpose of the old man. For a season 2 that makes sense for the first protagonist. Personal thoughts, I bet that season 2 will have a new protagonist that will be contacted by Gi-hun from the outside of the games in some way. They would be sponsored and both will be finding ways to win and break the game, from outside and inside. At least that way, it would be interesting as opposed to just gi-hun trying to break in by himself as we already saw that perspective with the detective dude.

[@Joy-cv1ig]

exactly, something that bothered me about his criticism w/ the bet which you worded perfectly was about the bet itself revolving more around inherent human good rather than gi-hun's character arc

[@lounowell4171]

you've got it backwards. NOT helping the guy just so he didn't "cheat" their bet is absurd, he was happy to cheat when his OWN LIFE was on the line in the marble game - wasn't he? he doesn't "gain" anything from the old man by helping that guy, there's no prize any good person would care more about a stranger dying in front of them than the opinion of an old, evil man

[@icegiraffes7445]

I was on board with the old man’s character…….until I saw his face at the beginning of the first game. While everyone else is horrified and screaming at the other contestants dying, the camera cuts briefly to the old man wearing this devilish, almost excited grin. I remember thinking, “ugh…..what’s that?” He’s immediately enthusiastic about continuing the game, hopping jauntily along the corpses while all the other living contestants are sweating, crying, and shaking in fear. I think that we’re supposed to assume he’s not in his right mind in this moment, but I couldn’t stop thinking about his expression. I’m glad that you liked him; I definitely can see him being an endearing character (especially in episode 6). However, from the first game on, I couldn’t buy his sweet, unassuming persona.

[@sirebellum0]

I dismissed his reaction not as "he's not all there" but as "he's so over life (from being terminal) that stuff like this is one of the few things that makes him feel alive". Turns out, that was not only spot-on but actually strengthened by the reveal

[@wydx120]

Yeah... All I saw in the first game was an old man with dementia just thinking "this is one of the childhood games I used to play!" not really grasping that much the gravity of the situation, and/or not thinking of death that seriously as he already had one foot in it.

[@monsterhanna6691]

I always thought it was a little weird that he would be this happy in the first game, but I never thought it was suspicious or anything since I eventually loved his character until my heart was ripped in two. But I totally see where you're coming from, and it's hard not to notice regardless of how you feel about it.

[@catsak7843]

I would argue that this twist represents how the powers that be rely on the old and jaded to believe that the world is morally correct so they can remain in power. Il-Nam bets his life on the fact that nobody will save the homeless man to justify both why the game exists and the way that it is, which is the same logic of an old conservative politician. The fact that the man does get helped but he dies right before (?) is a crucial turning point in the continuation of this world. People can be good, even if our main character continues to act selfishly as if he never left. Also, that inequality isn't a plothole, it's a part of the commentary. The rich and powerful can lose, but never really lose.

[@santa5939]

Wholeheartedly agree. That plot twist was crucial to drive home the director’s message and commentary on capitalism. Also, you’re telling me an old and rich man who rigs the games so he doesn’t truly suffer the consequences is not at all similar to the way the rich and powerful use their money to change the laws and bail themselves out of prison in our real world?

[@roxqu]

Big Brain

[@mahtimonni97]

But consider: The emotional torment of the marbles episode isn't diminished much by the twist. We still got the one-two punch of Ji-yeong and Ali (best boy who deserved better) both dying.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Only 1/3

[@nicole9volt]

We STILL get a punch when you realize that the old man LET THE MAIN CHARACTER LIVE. He was all set to continue the games and sacrifice our lead, but he chose to let him when and he would bow out

[@t.o.h.b8501]

Ali was the best character I cried when he died

[@SRR-rh7id]

It is another demonstration of how Il-nam and by extension the rich don't care about the emotional trauma they are putting the poverty stricken players through. He fucks with Gi-hun emotionally and mentally in that episode by creating the illusion that Gi-Hun killed him.

[@DigiMyst]

For the second season, we should follow another person as the lead, then midway through the season, Gi-Hun reappears, having made progress fighting Squid Game offscreen. That would make more sense than seeing his exact plan being executed.

[@TheFoxHound626]

It wouldve cool if the person gi hun saw being slapped towards the end of ep 9 was going to be our new main character in season 2. But then again the creator never planned for there to be a season 2 nor did he expect it to become so popular.

[@aaronmeyer73]

@@TheFoxHound626 that would be so cool

[@toni4157]

@@TheFoxHound626 true but didn’t Gi-Hun take the card front he guy we saw get slapped, so he doesn’t have the number for the game anymore not to mention the fact that Gi-Hun cornered him and yelled at him never to go into the games

[@TheFoxHound626]

@@toni4157 I meant to say it would've been cool, I forgot to put been. Like if they had planned a season 2 from the beginning then that would've been a cool way to introduce the season 2 main character. Also just cause gi hun took the card away doesn't mean the frontman wouldn't give him another and also that the guy would listen to gi hun.

[@sillymiaow]

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING

[@AndUwU]

I understand the sentiment of wanting an anthology of different characters in different seasons to show more Squid Games, however, I feel like that goes against the message of the show. The show is a critique of rich people exploiting the poor people's suffering just for entertainment. Wouldn't the show be going back on that critique if it focused more on the people being killed and the entertainment value in that for the viewer than the systematic destruction of this system of exploitation? Though, to be fair, I feel most people watch the show because they want to see the bloodshed... I understand that the games aren't real, and that these are all fictional characters; however, I feel it still goes against the point of the show to just want to focus on the people playing the games because one thinks it'd be fun to watch these characters suffer and die.

[@bigbadgammagnome]

yeah that absolutely goes against the point of the show, why would he want that? smh this video is bad, i expected more from him

[@80s_graffiti]

Exactly. It'd go entirely against the direction of the show by turning it's audience into what the antagonists signify, WITHOUT the audience's awareness. Possibly the worst way it could turn out.

[@ursidae97]

It's pretty funny Netflix itself didn't get that and legit tried to actually do squid game in real life.

[@yamiksus]

To me he didn't help the homeless guy because it would give the idea that he's the only good/selfless person out there; and kindness is not a human nature thing you can find in many people. Showing a random person helping the man made him go "yes, I'm not a fool to believe in goodness in people, I'm not the only one, there's goodness in people out there, my actions don't make me a fool" proving his point to himself, the old man and the audience.

[@juromori]

Good point!

[@jacobbustamante5171]

That’s how I took it. At first I thought he’d help the homeless dude though😅

[@31webseries]

Yes! This! The man was traumatized for a whole year just going through the motions (because if the games didn't PTSD him enough coming home to find his Mom, the whole point he went, died alone because he wasn't there did). He Needed to see it as much as proving it to the Old Man. I also like what someone pointed out about the elevator only having a 7 because it was the 7th game. And I'm pretty sure the water was poisoned so dude could die when he wanted. I loved the twist but honestly once I saw there was a host I knew it was the Old Guy with player 1 on his jersey, then he got them to break up the fight, he got shot off screen, etc. But it was still emotional to me because of how it effected the main character. Plus between the girls and Ali I was already overloading on feels that episode.

[@ausar4148]

Exactly, the entire point that they were betting on in that scene was “is kindness part of human nature” not “am I a good person” it’s not about one man making a difference, it’s if humanity can actually be good

[@iheartjbgccb]

@@ausar4148 exactly. Loved the ending

[@TheXandraPanda]

I feel like the old man having that plot armor is reflective of how rich ppl cosplay as having the same struggles as a poor person when really they've had the advantage this whole time.

[@cipherenigma]

“This twist doesn’t add anything to the story” for the rest of the video talks about the twist, and how it made him feel more sympathetic for a character.

[@lalalandhehe6797]

Actually he completely missed with that point, the twist shows how detached the rich are from society but continuing to feel sympathy for the old mad means he just fell into the narrative the old man told about himself

[@connoravila5332]

Fr… this guy is kind of a pedantic hater lol. I used to like his videos but lowkey unsubscribing after this brain dead take that he is only having because he was so invested in illnam. Brother that level of investment means its good

[@mitzi3262]

Because it didn't change any viewpoints about the character. The character is portrayed as sympathetic till the end and that's why it didn't do anything.

[@lalalandhehe6797]

@diamond dogs it’s there to lead into season 2, I don’t think the writers were trying to tie everything into a perfect bow, there has to be questions left unanswered for the following season

[@soapisnothere5471]

i just completely disagree. having the old man being behind it all perfectly reinforces the message being shown here. even in a seemingly "fair" system, its not ever going to be truly fair. the old man was never risking his life by playing the game because he was being protected, so his whole involvement in the game is fun to him. to him its just his turn to finally play the game hes been watching. the whole show is a commentary on how the rich continue to manipulate the poor for their benefit and entertainment. gi-hun finding out that the person he thought was a true friend that he let die was actually orchestrating the whole thing, he feels cheated and disgusted, taken advantage of for his kindness. and in real life celebrities and those with higher status often act like they have strong moral values and really care about the common people when its just a façade. the point i believe being made here is that the wealthy and the poor are never able to be on the same level. it can never be fair. ITS OK IF YALL DISAGREE WITH ME TOO im kinda bad at explaining my thoughts so like if anyone wants to reply just be like nice pls :)

[@soapisnothere5471]

@@raincloud96 thank u i tried my best :)

[@isaywhateveriwantandyougot7421]

What you seem to miss is that story structure always comes first in any work of fiction, and your message doesn't work (as well) if you sacrifice that in favor of said message.

[@isaywhateveriwantandyougot7421]

@d R You really have no idea of how storytelling works if that's how superficially you see things. That's how 90% of all Christian media is made

[@justanotherfishinbikinibot6060]

@d R i disagreee. great art should be a mixture of both good structure and its message, a movie that makes no sense and only has its message as an element would be pretentious as hell

[@UnbornHeretic]

I'd like to point out I think the old man's goal was to potentially leave in the duo game. He was probably thinking he would be the odd one out and, instead of the odd one out (crazy chick) just coming back, he would have just "died"

[@tamialuster4666]

Great point

[@someonepassingby1635]

I think so too, bc in the glass jumping game, you can't really be sure that the old man won't die since the other contestants can push him off or that the old man can accidentally slip and fall to his death.

[@DrFreezePHD]

You're usually pretty observant but the complaint about the final bet missed that the homeless man wasn't just helped by patrolling police He was helped by the person who passing him by earlier, they went to find assistance and that assistance was the police

[@buriedstpatrick2294]

Uhm, the games were never supposed to be "fair". It's not a plothole, it's intentional subtext. Calling attention to the very obvious way we like to pretend systems in the real world are fair and justify themselves when that's far from the case.

[@wyd_marco4107]

Didn't the front man say that in the squid games, the entire point of the competition was for everyone to have an equal opportunity? (which is why he executed the doctor and guards who were helping him get info on the games) The game itself was supposed to be played fairly (other than the old man cause he runs the operation), excluding the subtext and metaphors I get that there's meaning in this show (and I love it for that) but not every single thing can be excuses with that. There are plot holes, and mistakes. No matter how good the show is, you can't really ignore that

[@billfred9411]

@@wyd_marco4107 This falls apart as well just because the exploding tempered glass. The thief girl won fair and square then caught a large chunk of glass because the flashy way they explode the glass when the time runs out. They really should have at least given the people who won some kind of cover from the glass at the end.

[@Wabbajacrane]

@@wyd_marco4107 front man romanticizing the games is the whole point. frontman is an unreliable narrator bro.

[@TheRedAzuki]

@@billfred9411 the fact they stopped the guy with glass knowledge from continuing with his stuff, shows that they don't care about fair and square. (This was also shown in the secret riot game and how they didn't feed everyone). It's a lie. The true reason the doctor got killed, was because he was messing up the bets the uber-rich has in the contestants.

[@CaptainQtie]

@@wyd_marco4107 orange juice is right the front man is an unreliable narrator, someone who has been tricked by the system after lucking out and rising up to think that the system is fair. giving him a position in the game itself means that 1. he's less likely to turn against the people that benefit from the game (like the new winner is currently going to do) and 2. he helps keep the new poor people in line by also making them think that the game is fair. also, the old man and the doctor have a huge difference, one is secretly rich and the other is truly in debt. they use the actual poor guy as a tool to make people think they truly want the game to be fair and everyone has equal opportunity as a means of keeping them under their control, but the real twist in the "twist villain" is that the squid game isn't even fair like they claim it to be. Its intentions to be fair and put capitalism in good light are inherently flawed. i don't think the twist was to be for the characters itself and more about the even more sinister implications of the game. the fact that one gets treated in accordance with the supposed principles of the game and gamemakers while the other one obviously is a contradiction to those principles the entire time is a direct representation of late capitalism in real life- the rich have an inherent advantage. funny enough, the people who run the game who are killing people tell the contestants its fair, and us as the viewer have the choice to take that at face value, just as the contestants do. everyone in this comment section, If they were contestants, would fall for the same ploy, the one that perpetuates the cycle. i cant wait for the next season!

[@anafu-sankanashi8933]

Not many people here commented on it but despite most of the violence, the most disturbing scene to me is the VIP room. Nothing shows how dejected from morality a person can be then treating others as furniture, as though they aren't even human. Nothing special but definitely the most stand out part for me.

[@luminaria227]

Twist ending/villain: *exists* Schaffrillas: "Is this writing that doesn't work?"

[@conmattang8492]

Well, media has gotten to the point where plot twists are almost the norm, and your show is viewed as boring if it doesnt have one. So we see an excess of unnecessary twist villains which are rarely well thought out.

[@nicogalax]

@@conmattang8492 yup and if u compare them to extremely good twists then...it doesn't work

[@Ray03595]

i was fine with the twist, i just hate Gi-hun not getting on the damn plane. I agree that his character shouldn't have returned for the inevitable season two.

[@filurenerik1643]

This one doesen't work for real though.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

@@conmattang8492 Twist villains can still work, but people just can’t seem to do them well anymore.

[@carresser]

i quite liked the twist ending, in a weird, uncomfortable way. the reveal that the ilnam was the host rlly worked to sour my view of him immediately, and made me wonder whether his confusion during the marble game was actual confusion or if it was premeditated and he was just yanking gihun's chain the whole time, especially considering he called out gihun for fucking with him the whole game. so due to the twist, the fact that ilnam's death scene was portrayed in such a way to make it seem like a moment to garner sympathy for his character made me feel unsettled. he had just explained everything about the games, the whole reason he made it, why he participated. he was aware and conscious during the game and after, and so the soft piano over him talking about how the game made him feel alive and all that just felt so off. like... you feel alive having participated in a game you created in which you kill off hundred of people so one of them can get a prize at the end? and i'm supposed to feel sympathy for someone like that? the ending of gihun abandoning the plane and going back also struck me as off but after sitting with it, i think it's fitting. squid game isn't a happy show - there are moments of levity, bright points sprinkled throughout, but it's dark, it's depressing, it's hard. people died, so many people. i think if gihun were to take the money and go be with his daughter, it would have been an unsatisfying ending. i remember reading somewhere that korean media like movies and tv shows have a different way of structuring plot and character arcs and stuff like that. i haven't watched a lot of korean media, but in the ones i have watched, namely parasite, train to busan, and a movie called derailed, the endings have been just as bleak as the content of the movie. parasite ends with gitaek locked away to be a permanent basement dweller, kiwoo and chungsook back in poverty with no way out because of the capitalist system. train to busan ends with almost all of the main cast dead. derailed ended with one of the main characters dead, and the plot was confusing to boot. that's why i think the ending of gihun abandoning the prospect of a happy life away from his previous struggles works in the context of the show. for his character, for him to just leave if he knows he has a chance at fixing something, especially following the character growth after the meeting with ilnam, it would feel wrong. i think he would regret not having at least tried to help fix what he can with his newfound power from his wealth. he would feel guilty on a larger level than the guilt of not seeing his daughter, and that's why he had to stay off the plane.

[@awsomedude23456]

I don’t think the old mans death was to garner sympathy, rather it seemed more to show that a person who can do things like that still believe they were in the right, and did nothing wrong. Like he said, he didn’t make the participants stay, he even let them go and when they came back, to him it absolved him of anything that happened to them bc that was their choice

[@LuvzToLol21]

There was a thing he said during the marble game like "have you been treating me like a friend this whole time"? Implying that he may have been aware Gi-hun was cheating and gaslighting him the whole time and was just faking his dementia.

[@awsomedude23456]

@@LuvzToLol21 he most likely was, I think he was testing him, not necessarily seeing if he’d do the right thing, but to see if he’d use the advantage to win the game.

[@LuvChickenY2K]

I thought he was just visiting her. then again he could still visit her then come back

[@Pomagranite167]

As someone who has watched many of k dramas and korean movies- yeah they really don't care about your feelings and wrapping it up in a pretty little box at the end for you. Their approach isn't to distract you from the horrors of life. It's to literally throw it in your face and to make you deal with it. The protagonist does not end up with her forever crush, and the cancer patient dies, and the rich ppl dont go to jail, and abusers continue to roam about society in the end bc that's real life and you've gotta deal with it. But I think there'a merit for showing that. It's a call to action that you dont get a happy ending just bc you are the main character of your own world, and the justice system won't always do it's job. It's a call to make a the change u wish to see in the world, bc it wont just happen on it's own, there is no director who will make a happy ending for us all.

[@lizardson]

so i really dont think the "twist ending" negates the emotional impact of episode 6, it kinda reframes it. instead of being sad over the old man, it turns into horror at what he was willing to put gi-hun through just for his own entertainment. the emotional stakes are still there yknow? its a betrayal that's so much worse than anything sang woo or the other contestants did bc it was just? for fun? like idk man a character doesn't have to die for it to be impactful. it was all just so deeply unsettling and genuinely horrifying and i feel like it was done really well

[@bingbongjoel6581]

Beautifully put - replacing a sad moment with absolute dispair!

[@panlis6243]

Honestly the twist was pretty clear after old man's "death" scene, when he convieniently went off screen the moment there was the shot sound. Also at the end of the marbles game he revealed that he was aware that Gi-hun was taking advantage of his dementia. I get it that it was suppoused to make Gi-hun feel more guilty but it really just showed that the old man let him win which kinda ruins the whole point of that part of the episode

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Yeah I still liked the first context better

[@lizardson]

@@cosmicspacething3474 I mean good for you I guess? I still prefer the way it was recontextualized by the ending

[@nicole9volt]

THANK YOU! I made the same point in my reply, and I scrolled down, sure other people would be pointing this out, but nope.

[@tesso.6193]

This video falls apart when it takes the Front Man's word for it on "equality". The writer made this as an allegory for capitalism. The "equality" of chances isn't real, meritocracy isn't real, that's the whole point. From the beginning the plan was only 1 person could live and win the prize, that's 0.2% of the contestants. This promise of "fighting fair and winning" when the system is literally designed for the rich, and doesn't allow "winning" but for a tiny minority is a lie.

[@pedropradacarciofi2517]

Hence why the show is a bad critique of capitalism, beeing a much better critique of sistems such as socialism and corporatism, where government chooses winners and losers instead of letting people be free to do as they please

[@tesso.6193]

@@pedropradacarciofi2517 corporatism XD as if that's no just capitalism. braindead take. "socialism is when bad".

[@pedropradacarciofi2517]

@@tesso.6193 Capitalism is defined by a free market If the government is interfiring in the market to help corporations (corporatism) then it's not a free market Similarly, under socialism the government controls the economy

[@tesso.6193]

@@pedropradacarciofi2517 no it isn't. it's defined by private ownership of the means of production. socialism is defined by worker ownership of the means of production. the current remaining socialist states are all market socialists. What fanboys of capitalism do is invent a meaningless definition then pretend super, super hard the profit motive doesn't make capitalists move politics. so basically -> capitalism is when free market then -> oh it's never free market it's [excuse here] -> the market isn't less free because the profit motive creates political lobbying - > the gov should interfere against these corporates acting on the profit motive so we have le REAL capitalism -> when gov interferes it's not free market -> no free market no capitalism it's not free market when government interferes in it, but if it doesn't interfere monopolies form and control politics, that you'll then pretend is unrelated to capitalism. Incoherent logic that i'd rather you spare me because I had the conversation a 1000 times already.

[@pedropradacarciofi2517]

@@tesso.6193 And since when are workers not alowed to privately own the means of production under capitalism? That definition is defunct and extremely nonsensical. Acording to it mercantile kingdoms are capitalist, but a modern society with a lot of startups wouldn't be The definitions actualy used by the people nowadays are capitalism as private property + a (mostly) free market and socialism as centralized control of the economy in the name of the people For those were the kinds of economys to use the names thorugh history And of course you use the nonsensical "government is corrupt so we should give it more power" argument If government isn't trustworthy (and it isn't) we should restrict it's power and let people be free from it's influence Of course, you don't even realize you are proving my original point. You, the socialist, are advocating for exactly the kind of centralized control we are saw exemplified in Squid game, while I, the capitalist, am advocating we should get rid of it

[@LegalVampire]

I personally like that we find out he is the host because it explains the whole reason why the death games are based around popular children's games - because Il Nam wanted to relive the best time of his life when things were pure and simple, which was his childhood. If this wasn't revealed, then we would never know why the death games are specifically childhood games. And the games are the main attraction of the show. It would be lazy of them to not explain the reason behind that choice.

[@cseve8801]

I really didn't want everything revealed. There are mysteries which are better left unanswered. It was a fucked up game made by some unknown rich person/people/organization. To me, everything they did besides the detectives search for his brother was dumb. It brought me out of the show and it didn't feel the same after.

[@caashmoney6280]

idk man, imma disagree. finding out that they were childrens games were because the secret bad guy was an old man who missed childrens games really added nothing to the story, and because it was ilnam, it took away more from the story than it gave to the story. Like idk, id rather have a very intense and heart breaking scene where we lose a beloved character, than know why the games were specifically childrens game. Also literally anyone could have wanted childrens games cuz they missed being a kid.

[@WvTTvW]

I actually read the children’s games as a symbol of the ultimate “fair games” - everyone had played them before and therefore knows the rules. And they dont require any particular skill or training. I feel like it rings true to the whole mantra of the games having to be ‘universal’ and equal for everyone

[@plugshirt1762]

Except for the fact that could of revealed it in a completely different way that doesn’t ruin one of the most emotional scenes and one of the main characters. They could have also just not explained it as it’s not a big deal and would have felt much less sloppy than what they did

[@Lauren-zd4cu]

that explains why the episode after Il Nam left the game wasnt childhood based, (the glass one) because Il Nam wasnt participating anymore

[@BoxoSpoons]

I think the key aspect of the “equality” talk is who’s primarily delivering it: The Frontman, a former winner. This system put him where he is, so he is extremely fixated on the idea that that system is just. (And who knows what kinds of awful things he feels the need to justify)

[@adinakruijssen3056]

Yes! People are treating different individuals' statements as though they represent the whole of the game admin, when they actually all have their own perspective. This guy clearly either bought into the fairness/equality spiel, or came up with it on his own. I don't think anyone else pushes it like he does. It might even be his own way to cope with his survivors guilt. It's kinda an "unreliable narrator" type situation.

[@mariacillan9668]

Egalitarianism. Not equality.

[@ReblazeGaming]

@@adinakruijssen3056 Oh damn you’re right. Now that I think about it, only the front man went on about “equality.” So that could easily just be his personal belief/ he’s lying to himself and or the contestants, because the games are obviously unfair.

[@SunCannon]

He also would've been the person left out at the marble game. Its a twist for him that he gets picked at the marble game and that's why our main character is given the chance to live. The old man was supposed to be the odd one out and then leave before the glass jumping scene. That glass jumping scene would be too unpredictable for him to be kept alive. I think the twist adds a lot on a rewatch to this one episode anyway.

[@TJDOW]

You have got to stop making the claim that you could simply remove the "old man being the main bad guy" twist without it effecting the story at all. There are so many instances throughout the first season where we see examples of how it most certainly would effect the story lol. You pointed out a few yourself. Just because there arent an overwhelming amount of examples where the show tries to benefit/take advantage of this hidden twist before its revealed, doesn't mean you could just remove that plot point from the story with minimal effect. The show is intended to be enjoyed more than once. You rewatch after learning of the twist, and it changes how you view each episode. Every single episode has atleast one moment on a second watch where you stop and think "Holy shit, now this makes sense". Why did the night time fighting stop? because the old man got upset. At first you think the frontman has a bit of a heart and is stopping the fighting cause he feels bad, but on a second watch you realize why he actually stopped the fighting. Little bits like this are enough to justify the twist in my opinion. It's not like they made absolutely 0 effort to do anything with that twist. There are a lot of moments where it matters lol.

[@NerdismOfficial]

I kinda think Schaffrillas is to a point where he can’t watch something without finding some “flaw” that isn’t really much of a flaw if you look hard enough

[@samaw5112]

he sounds whingier than ever here

[@PocketDong]

Yeah this is a shit take on his part he just didnt understand the subtext of the show

[@ilimeo1270]

His point is fair, if you wanna hop on the train of “old man shows that Rick people bad and have an unfair advantage in capitalism” that point was already made with the vips and the whole fact that there’s some kind of organization just makes it clear that there is unfairness in this world, it’d be a decent twist if at least it changed your perception of the character but honestly old man player 001 and old man mastermind just feel like characters so different that the mastermind could have been a random new character and it would have made the ending better lol

[@ilimeo1270]

And he mentioned another flaw that you’re just plain stupid if you think it isn’t lol, that is the fact that the detective plot went nowhere

[@bluepen3066]

He has a valid point, though

[@anzuaoix]

When Oh Il-Nam flatlines, his monitor reads “LEAD OFF” meaning his lead isn’t on correctly or is off entirely. He might not even be dead.

[@imnogood5016]

or this is just to fake death like in many media

[@anzuaoix]

@@imnogood5016 …that’s the point i was making

[@Ray03595]

why fool the front man though? He was clearly not breathing as well. Dude is dead.

[@whatisthis1958]

@@anzuaoix I'm no good meant that it was how they fake deaths in film making, not that they think Oh Il Nam is faking his death

[@uhhmary]

south korean jigsaw is something I'm really not excited about

[@kermitisagod9909]

The “plot hole” was actually intentional! It calls attention to the idea anyone can be successful if they work for it. Like in real life and in the game that isn’t the case. Some people are handed/born with special opportunities from the start, while those at the bottom fetter. The whole series is commentary on capitalism, the game never truly being equal supports that.

[@ayushdeshmukh284]

The creator not being able to lose isn't really a problem at all. His immunity didn't affect anybody esle's chances whatsoever. Other than his experience as a good player.

[@blackironwalterkus3851]

Umm ackshually this smelly turd on the ground is actually a metaphor for capitalism because it is bad and under capitalism bad things also happen. I’m very smart

[@arjunwali9885]

@@ayushdeshmukh284 he saved an entire team of people during tug of war with his memories of playing as a kid and if it didnt work, he had nothing to lose since he wasnt tied to the rope. All the advantages but no actual chance of feeling the same consequences as others

[@johnmarkson1990]

@@arjunwali9885 what are you on about? he won that game fair and square. thats like saying the glass guy shouldnt be allowed to use his glass knowledge to win. yes he would of lived post death but thats also fine. he has a brain tumor. him living means nothing anyway compared to a normal contestant living.

[@arjunwali9885]

@@johnmarkson1990 the only reason he made it far enough to tug of war to help those characters is because he was never in any harms way in the other games. Therefore, him not being at risk unfairly impacted other contestants chances and undermines the VIPs whole notion of "equality"

[@Sunny64123]

Having this show being all over kids KZbin is kinda fucked

[@waltuh2.3bviews3secondsago3]

Yeah it's a 15

[@rico4376]

Kids should not be watching these kinda stuff

[@saphiriathebluedragonknight375]

I've been seeing kids toys for this show.

[@chromatic-doodlieus09]

@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 same leh

[@oxxy6678]

This is pretty light compared to most shit. Kids have access to the internet these days. Who fucking cares.

[@Bolderox]

funny thing is, the types of games they play are drawn on the walls inside the holding facility, so you can argue that everyone knew, just not knowing what order, and I would argue the old man didn't know what games were going to be done, but the fact that the games were designed around things the old man did as a kid anyways.

[@thatoneguy611]

The drawings were put there after each game. They weren’t there the whole time

[@TheDramacist]

You can't see those clues on the walls until the beds gradually reduce in numbers as people die. It's a cruel 'clue' that comes too late for the players. Just emphasises what an evil bustard Grandpa was

[@MCJustme]

​@@thatoneguy611 12:33 ep3, you can clearly see tug of war on the wall before the game takes place.

[@elisemitchell7881]

For the tig of war game, the old man was not locked to the rope like everyone else was. If they failed he wouldn't have been pulled down.

[@ahh952]

When they were killing each other at night, 001 literally asked them to stop and they did. That was so evident that I don't see how nobody thought he had something to do with the games themselves after that and his attitude on game 1. Empathy or sympathy was never shown by the guys with masks, but 001 was an exception.

[@littlelordfuckleroy3822]

In the moment I interpreted it as the front man waiting for them to beg for their lives before stopping. And if it went on longer then there wouldn’t be enough players for the rest of the game

[@ahh952]

@@littlelordfuckleroy3822 That could've been it, If they didn't just focus on the old man at the moment. If more characters did that it would have been better. It just pisses me off that I kinda liked the show but it had the potential to be so much better.

[@tanner201x8]

I don’t understand how you can take that scene as meaning he was secretly behind it all?

[@littlelordfuckleroy3822]

@@ahh952 well that’s because it wasn’t the actual reason, it was just what I inferred was the reason in the moment. which made more sense to me at the time than him being behind the whole thing

[@ahh952]

@@tanner201x8 Maybe not directly to that. But it showed that the game had special care for him, which raised a lot of suspicion on his character.

[@shawnlatour1825]

When Gi-hun didn't go out to help the man, it really characterizes how he's changed to being more cold, and more of a spectator than a player which definitely opens up for the second season.

[@ijneb1248]

Or maybe he was too shocked by his friend returning from the dead after a year and wanted an explanation for everything

[@MilouPaint]

Or because its already established that Gi-hun is a altruistic person, and that him going to help the guy would take away the meaning of the bet, being is there still good people? If Gi-hun went it'd be because he wanted to win and get the truth and because he feels guilty. (And he is also shocked). In this way he wins the bet that not only someone help the man, but that humans can do good. This is also to point out how the old man is wrong about human nature. It makes the scene more powerful overall imo

[@monsterhanna6691]

No, it was to show that he still had faith in humanity, and him going to stop the game clearly shows that he's not "cold" as that's the entire point of the show.

[@rimfire8217]

Yet he helped a bunch of other people.

[@elsafernandez9851]

The part with the old man actually makes sense to me. He invited Gi-Hun over to play one last game with him, because I think he really took a liking to him, which is why he let him win in the marbles game. He wanted to have fun one last time. As for how he knew he was gonna die, my grandpa also had cancer and died at home and trust me, you know when the time is coming. Helping the guy would have been cheating, and it wouldn't have taught anything to Gi-Hun. I think the old man knew what Gi-Hun was going through, and that was his twisted way of making him see the value of life again, just like he himself saw the value of his own life by participating in the games himself, and just like the Squid Game was his twisted way of "giving a second chance". Also, Gi-Hun watched all the other players die in front of him, death and money don't have the same meaning for him anymore. He knows all of those people who died yet no one knows and nothing happened to those who did it. Life is unfair and death is unstoppable is his mindset. Watching this person is like watching the people in Squid Game die. But as the person is saved, Gi-Hun remembers the value of life. He remembers that he didn't die there with them, although he felt like that for a whole year. He remembers that he can make some things right in a way, and even though he couldn't help all of those who died in Squid Game, he can still help those that are still alive. Until that moment, he didn't feel worthy of the money, because he didn't pay the price all the other paid : he didn't die. He realizes at this moment that he still values life, and good people, and that he is still worth it. As the old man passes, he realizes that all life eventually goes, and that he isn't gone yet. I think it's a beautiful moment. Also I like the ending. Without winning the games, and everyone else dying, he would have never been able to go see his daughter, but that's the thing : him as himself just wouldn't have been able to. The only reason he can is the games. This person he's portraying is not him. He looks more like the step dad of his daughter than himself. Although he could do anything with all the money he has, it wouldn't be fair to the people who died for it, and to the people who will continue dying for it. He owes his life to all the people who gave up theirs, willingly or unwillingly. You didn't like that he didn't help the guy in the street, but that's exactly why he's turning back : he finally understands that he can help him. That he can help all of those who still have to play the games. He can't undo the deaths of all the players from before, but he can stop those after. He can be like the guy who went and fetched the police to help. In fact, he has to, because that's who he is. He's the guy who teams up with an old man with a brain tumor. The guy who wouldn't kill someone when they're asleep. The guy who'd accept anyone in his team. The guy who would risk his pride, and his life to cure his mother. He isn't like Sang-Woo. He refused the money from the step father at the beginning, but can he accept the money from Squid Game? No. He can't. Not if he wants to stay true to himself. And he's stayed true to himself the whole time. The only time he cheated was with the old man, and it truly hurt him. I really, really love it. It's a story of him loosing himself and finding himself again. I do agree that season 2 should have a different protagonist, but he was an amazing one, and the ending for this season was beautiful.

[@emopeterparker7]

hey i think this is a really meaningful comment, but it would help putting paragraph breaks in it maybe so people would be less discouraged to read it.

[@elsafernandez9851]

@@emopeterparker7 Pouahaha I guess you're right, I did this in one go without thinking 😭😭 I'll do it now, thanks 💜✨

[@meredith4491]

I think it’s quite a minimizing take as well to say “well it’s dumb that that he didn’t touch the money, he could have helped the families of the dead!” Gi-Hun literally went back into the games to save his mother’s life. It’s what he went through all of that death and trauma for, and when he comes back, she’s died alone, still thinking that he’s a careless, drunken deadbeat that abandoned her to work herself to death. Beyond that, his closest childhood friend, who he already essentially forfeited the prize money to save despite having won, committed suicide in front of him and forced him to take the money. I think a lot of the people saying he should have immediately gone and done good with the money without processing what had happened are really not letting themselves see fictional characters as the multi-faceted humans they are written to be, and are perhaps a bit too desensitized to a portrayal of trauma that immense.

[@elsafernandez9851]

@@meredith4491 Exactly, I agree! Just because we as viewers are done with the games doesn't mean Gi-Hun is, and he was shown from the beginning to be quite emotional, although he would hide it in front of his mother and his daughter. With both of them gone, along with his childhood friend and all the people he met in the games, he had no one to turn to pull himself back up. That's also why the moment with the old man is so impactful.

[@bhaveshtochabbra6853]

@@elsafernandez9851 you know when the time is coming.

[@nicolasp.5698]

Couple things: I feel like the intention of the scene is not to make you despise the old man at all; in fact, what you had taken away from it was moreso from what I understand what the actual intention is. It's supposed to give a moment where you question the actual morals of the game as a whole. It uses a beloved character to throw the audience off guard, not to make him a "villain." Granted, it's delivery was fairly confused. Also, it's important to note that the old man is completely lucid in these final moments; and is implied that his memory issues are all a front in episode 6 as well. Right before he gives Gi-Hun his final marble, he reveals subtly that he was aware Gi-Hun was tricking him the whole round. So for that reason personally I find it difficult to compare him to Beatrice Horseman. The whole point of the betrayal aspect is less so that he was the host and moreso the blatant emotional abuse and manipulation he used on Gi-Hun.

[@曾華偉-l6g]

I think you understated how weird that twist was, it was so strange I was taken away from this show. the director failed to deliver the last episode. and the marble reveal is not subtle, that old bastard clearly know what he was doing, that's why the ending is so jarring. is he clear headed or just crazy, no one knows and the directors refuses to give us a straight answer because season 2.

[@toniconge7003]

Reading this comment section did make me think about the villians "we want everyone to be equal" but how time and time again that's shown to not be the case in the game. It's pretty much an impossible task. The system claiming its equal but if you use your advantages in a way the system doesn't agree with they'll shut you down. People have different bodies, people have different life experiences. The biggest example I think being with the glass game the glass worker has his advantage from his life experience but once the rich people find that boring the Front Man changes that life experience advantage for their enjoyment.

[@HxH2011DRA]

The myth of meritocracy exposed

[@jootstar8481]

This entire video can be summed up as "I didn't understand the show and the ending even less"

[@tommyhofer1176]

fax lol

[@CoolGuyFaceMan]

mald

[@minako134]

Everyone keeps saying "the twisted thing is, they all came to Squid Game after going home in ep 2, by CHOICE!" and that is honestly such a depressingly un-nuanced excuse, just mimicking the bad guys in the show trying to justify what they're doing. No, the contestants did not have a choice, or rather 93% of them didn't (are we going to gloss over the fact that half of the original contestants died because they said yes to a game not knowing people would be killed, in Red Light Green Light?). Every single person who participated in Squid Game after episode 2 was at the end of their rope. It was a total illusion of choice. The Squid Game sought them out specifically because they had the highest chance of saying yes, having done research on their financial situations beforehand. It's an important commentary on capitalism that the show, and many commentators on the show too, seem to really skip over.

[@Crazypixiness]

Right? Like, many of the contestants' rationale was that they at least had a "chance" with the game rather than outside.

[@yin9383]

Was looking for this comment, you summed it up perfectly.

[@ilimeo1270]

Such thing as illusion of choice is just nonexistent. If there was an illusion, all contestants would have come back, not everybody did, proving that there was the choice to continue living your life outside the game. Commenting on how they supposedly had “no choice” is just baseless conjecture and adds nothing to a critical analysis of the show

[@yin9383]

@@ilimeo1270 I'm sorry but this is a very unempathetic and dumb way of looking at what the show was trying to say in the second episode

[@isviewer]

Why is every media analysis today just "capitalism bad".