WHY The Kickback Is So Good Right Now - Darktide

Just a quick explanation of what exactly changed about the Kickback shotgun on the Ogryn class in Patch 14 that allows it to pump out such insane amounts of damage, and how you can take advantage of this yourself.
Don't forget to check out the Ogrynomicon: steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...

[@39224]

Darktide fixing the age old issue of shotgun damage vs RNG has got to be one of the best things to come from this game

[@Trooper6012]

It is a essentially a cannon. Victorian era cannons could fire grapeshot to rip apart columns of soldiers at considerable distance.

[@hankjw_dt]

While I agree that it thematically makes sense, Darktide is ultimately a videogame and the amount of damage we are seeing the Kickback pump out over the course of a mission, even on an Ogryn melee build, is not healthy for the balance of the game in my opinion. The gun needs a few small tweaks to reign its worst excesses in and then it's fine.

[@UponGiantsShoulders]

@@hankjw_dtThat same argument works against the claim. Its just a video game, its fine. ie, not an argument.

[@Shmethan]

​@@UponGiantsShouldersrespectfully disagree, i think hes implying that since its a videogame, it should be designed and balanced around videogame standards, eg being balanced to promote build diversity. Youre right that realism doesnt have to play a part but user experience and balance does if they want the game to be fun & varied

[@snakeoo7ca]

Solid points

[@fishworshipper]

@@UponGiantsShoulders "It's a video game, ergo nothing matters" is not a good, relevant argument.

[@braize6279]

There's no way this gun doesn't get nerfed. It also one shots snipers, no matter how far away they are. It's stupid broken OP, but damn It's hella fun and so satisfying to use. Enjoy it while it lasts

[@kordova2182]

It's nerfed now

[@joshharrington5904]

I LOVE the kickback. Been using it since I started. Which was a few weeks ago. Never played a fatshark game before and the Ogryn with the kickback is what sold me on the game. So fun to use!

[@Eclipsle]

It's really fun to use this now and lob shots over all the little ones and just decimate crowds running in. The kickback is probably one of the better ammo efficient weapons in the game as well which makes it easy to just dump shots all the time.

[@jeffreywilliams3421]

The kickback, the Emprah's salsa maker

[@it_Nexus562]

Darktide's super shotgun

[@thebusinessmn1114]

I feel like the kickback isn't overpowered but does outpace the other Ogryn guns in versatility. It knocks down enemies, it shreds hoards, it can one-shot strong enemies, it's the best swarm clearer for hoards with gunlugger, it can snipe and you can be quick to react with it and benefit from gunligger perks you activate by reloading. Truly I love the new kickback but I won't be suprised if it's always this incredibly op

[@DigitalDeath88]

Hey look, a sniper. Whips out kickback and eraces sniper at max range* "What sniper?"

[@CyrusL]

So THIS is why ogryns are always ridiculously high dmg

[@TheGrouch91]

Slightly off-topic question but is there a good source where one can find all those hidden stats be it for classes or weapons? I started playing a few weeks ago and pretty much immediately got annoyed by how the "detailed" weapon view wouldn't tell me even half the things I wanted to know. Normally would just google this stuff and not ask in a KZbin comment like a dummy but everything I could find was either incomplete and/or outdated.

[@hankjw_dt]

I don't think there's a comprehensive resource like that. There are a lot of knowledgeable people in the class channels of the official Darktide Discord server. I hang out there too (and help moderate the place). Say hi if you ever stop by!

[@foowii4421]

Nerved with carnival update

[@ilikefoodx20]

nothing about the kickback is over the edge. If vet can get a gun with infinite cleave, pykers having a tool for every possible problem and zelots being unkillable 1shot machines, then ogryns can have a cannon

[@hankjw_dt]

I don't think any of those three things are true, though. Plasma penetration is completely stopped by Carapace, Psykers have no good boss damage, and Zealots aren't any tankier or deadlier than Ogryns imo.

[@HeavyFootedMoa]

What do you think they would have to do to reign it in a little bit?

[@hankjw_dt]

Reduce the minimum pellet count back down a bit, and/or lower the far range damage against Infested and Unarmored units. Either one of those would help prevent the Kickback from oneshotting Poxwalkers, Groaners and Snipers at infinite range.

[@spikeslab5922]

​@hankjw_dt personally given the nature of the shredder shotguns the ogryn has I think this is fair for the one shot wounder shotgun. You have less ammo for your gun so wasting it on a horde I think is acceptable. Especially on Auric mission with near infinite hordes. If you keep pop shooting you will run low on ammo and have nothing for the more elite enemies it should be used on. Framers, mutants, pox hound hordes etc. It's a more sawed off shotgun so I get it does not quite fit thematically. But for balance, there are superior options. Like the rumbler, shredder shotguns, and even the heavy stubbed with burn.

[@owa1985]

Nothing. They should do nothing. Everytime they nerf something they buffed, it somehow becomes far worse than their prebuffed states.

[@samfish2550]

​@@spikeslab5922tbh I think lowering the damage at range is ok, and then maybe increase the amount of enemies it can shoot through to 2 or 3 so it still has a reason to be used against hords at range just to push them back/cluster them up for your allies/your convenience. The sheer stagger already gives it decent use as a support gun to stall major enemies, even if you can't kill them so it may be a fun way of leaning into that aspect instead of just having it one tap wonder entire waves of enemies..... Or keep it. I am fine either way. Fun gun before, fun gun now, so long as it still feels "punchy" I'll enjoy it.

[@commitselfdeletus9070]

Well, yeah, it’s a shotgun. But it’s a shotgun in the same sense as a 120mm tank gun is a shotgun when loaded with canister rounds. That’s still gonna mess you up at a fair distance. Though yeah for game balance I guess it’s a bit scuffed but let us ogryn boys have our W

[@dwarfking2266]

I also have a Ogryn named hank 😮

[@grogphilip8979]

this is how the voidstrike felt until they nerved some of the damage.

[@MaddixCuhming]

Riper takes 3 bullets to kill maybe, kickback take 1 big bullet to kill mostly

[@MasterChees117]

I heard people saying they want it nerfed. *WHY*

[@hankjw_dt]

Game balance reasons. Boring, I know, but it's something I care about. But that goes for most of the outlying performers in the game. I think players in general are too strong and the game is too easy right now.

[@MasterChees117]

@@hankjw_dt Yeah boring indeed you must be fun at parties

[@tessier_ashpool]

​@@hankjw_dti think they should buff up, not nerf down and introduce a diffculty one higher than damnation like cataclysm tier. So everything we take in there wouldnt be ridiculously op because of the lethality of everything, enemies included.

[@UponGiantsShoulders]

Just needs maximum effective range, but the problem then becomes total inability to deal with targets beyond that range. A third drop off would be better, but good luck that would probably take fat shark a while to implement. I think its fine, IMHO. But then again, I just want the game to be fun, not a try hard.

[@fishworshipper]

Is a shotgun being unable to deal with long range targets a problem, though?

[@DevilSlayr]

Idk, i dont really see the use in it. Like what Oygren build would need the kickback? Gunner Oygren? Nah his ability works better with the ripper gun or heavy stubber, its a waste to have a single shot gun. Tank Oygren? Maybe, the slab shield is pretty bad at crowd control so killing hordes at a distance can be useful. Heavy Attack Oygren? Nah hes got the bully club to kill hordes and benefits more from the grenade gauntlet to kill flak and carapace armor.

[@hankjw_dt]

It's a very good sidearm for a heavy attack melee build, in my opinion. Bully clubs are *okay* at hordes but not amazingly fast. Kickback does very fast Specialist deletion and group destruction. Bring Rock for countersniping.

[@FireAnt]

Disagree, both on Tank and especially a Heavy Attackgryn. With Skullbreaker build you either sport a club, shovel or Mk4 knife - all easily capable of murdering flak and carp with ease, especially on that build. You don't need your ranged option to be anti-carp if your Clob 2-shots them anyway. Kicky then makes a great fit for long range sniper-removal, huge suppression into gunner lines and of course nice quick Mutie/Rager deletion tool.

[@Shadowblas180]

I believe you might be underestimating the power of gunner ogryn with the kickback. If you go with the 30% rend upgrade with point blank shot it lets you 2-3 tap maulers and 3-4 tap crushers, the increased reload speed massively helps with your firerate to take down those big groups of flak/carapase specials that spawn in high intensity and shock trooper. to be honest it feel far better than the other guns for gunner ogryn as you arent wasting so much ammo trying to hit something outside of spitting distance. Plus sometimes just getting a second shot due to lucky bullet means an extra free 1K damage to dump into something in front of you.

[@DevilSlayr]

@@Shadowblas180 The grenade gauntlet can 2 shot crushers and can 1 shot maulers with a fully charged pinpoint accuracy blessing or with the special attack. Also you get the same kill rate just using a melee weapon which doesn't take ammo. Nah gunner Oygren really should just stick to the ripper or stubber especially if your using lucky bullet.

[@Shadowblas180]

i disagree, The kickback is far better at dealing with groups and is more ammo efficient due to being able to do collateral damage to enemies far better than the gauntlet. plus due to the overwhelmingly high damage of the kickback, when you get that free shot, you are getting so much more value. i feel there is a lot of value running gun ogrny with the kickback because you arent wasting as much ammo when you are being attacked.@@DevilSlayr

[@snakeoo7ca]

Add a canon shot mode and all will be forgiven

[@Kazgoth1]

i think its perfect hope they dont change it😂

[@owa1985]

Amen. After they took away my voidstrike, this is pretty much the primary way I get my kick(back)s in.

[@DrakenhofTemplars]

Ok but a single pellet from a kick back is murdering anyone if it penetrates lol shids huge I think it’s fine until the ogryn gets more variety of which he no doubt will especially since imo there’s far worse things being abused atm

[@arlomiedema4255]

footcam

[@FrankieMankie]

It got nerfed :(

[@captainshiffer]

I LOVE it! Why does every content creator feel that it’s their duty to scream OP or it’s ‘broken’ with every fun mechanic in a PVE game? It’s all so tiresome. Lemme break out my spreadsheet and do the maths, hmmm yep carry the 3 and multiply by the square root of purple skittle, aaaand there you have it. Let’s not figure in the fun you have, or take into account that people get more proficient the longer they use it. Let’s use soyence to delete all fun. Let’s do the shredder pistol next! People look like they’re enjoying that and the emperor won’t stand for that!

[@hankjw_dt]

I'm a playtester for the game. Thinking about overall game balance, healthy power levels between different weapons, and design vision is something I do every day!

[@captainshiffer]

@@hankjw_dtI appreciate that your commentary was respectful. I’ve just seen a lot of vids lately screaming for the banhammer on the kickback. I’m all for increasing the population of Ogryns, even if we have to tempt players with a little more fun. Glad to know that FS trusts you.

[@OldeVikingOriginal]

I dig it the way it is, but it does need to be tuned down a bit. Though I'd want to see a longer reload rather than them tuning back the awesome power it now brings, its good fun.

[@peterhoffmann2231]

naah its good the was it is.

[@sturmmagnunstein1008]

Yeah just nerf minimum pallet count. The strength of the kickback was able to kill shit in closer range and also suppress or disable far units.

[@Mr.LaughingDuck]

Space Marine: Brother! Brother! Look the little ones found our paintball guns! So cute! Guardsman: Paint? That's blood! Red blood! Space Marine: Awww, that little one is getting grumpy! Hey kid, want a bowl of corpse starch? Precious.

[@MMock]

started playing darktide this week and as soon as i tried the kickback i thought "finally a vermintide gun" turns out it was overtuned as fuck

[@Shadowblas180]

this is honestly why i love it so much. of ogrnys weapons its the best all around gun, it has low mag size but makes up for it by one to two shotting all specials, I hate having to dump a full mag of ripper or stubba ammo into something at medium range to kill it. If they nerfed its effectiveness then ogrny would have no good medium to long range weapons as everything else has stupid bad accuracy or horrible spread outside the one kind of ripper meant for longer range, and even that needs to be braced, its fires 2 shots usually and needs both shots to hit the head to take down most of the elites. i want accuracy and damage on ogrny, I want a boltor style weapon for ogryn so I can stop being burned down by gunners because my vet is too busy getting abused by pox to kill anything.