Why the LCMS says the ELCA isn't Lutheran

[@BartendingAndBaseball]

As an LCMS lad, I often find myself saying that Roman Catholics are more Lutheran than the ELCA.

[@markpatoka]

As a WELS Lutheran, we share the same sentiment that the ELCA has no semblance of being Lutheran, yet that's the synod that is in the news when anything Lutheran is mentioned.

[@itsthehumidityyall8303]

I constantly go behind their messages making sure folks know who they are.

[@JustinCage56]

Why doesn't the WELS pray with those outside of your denomination?

[@stevekohl5351]

No, WELS is not Lutheran!

[@JustinCage56]

@@stevekohl5351 Why?

[@stevekohl5351]

@justincage56 WELS is s too conservative. It does not ordain women.

[@genewood9062]

The brief clip worked well. Good concept!

[@andyreginald9272]

ELCA: “Everything Luther Cautioned Against”

[@b08no]

Good one 😂

[@angiemehrtens1320]

Very very good!!!

[@SamuelVanAgteren]

I will keep this one in my back pocket thank you.

[@sird2333]

Nice! 😂😂😂

[@stevekohl5351]

All of you are wrong and must repent! LCMS Lutherans are not Lutheran as this ELCA Lutheran knows better!

[@marcovau4902]

If the resurrection is being denied, it ain't "christian".

[@steffplaysmapping1104]

I can see why they would claim so. Requiring to hold onto the Lutheran confession should be very clear in a Lutheran congregation regardless if its more conservative or liberal on different issues. More importantly, the core beliefs of Nicene Christianity should be a minimum in a Christian congregation, but there are some liberal congregations that tolerate religious leaders who reject some of these beliefs

[@Tunafish262]

You should look into Valparaiso University. Its a Lutheran university in Indiana that has an LCMS and ELCA (Woman pastor) are on the same campus and kind of get along

[@behanner]

That shouldn't surprise anyone. Lutherans are not generally intolerant people, we just like to reprimand people in the proper place and then get on with things. The problem is that the internet is a place where people go to reprimand each other instead of getting on with life.

[@zbm-2375]

I mean, a Quatenus ("insofar as") subscription to a confessional document is a pretty big qualifier, big enough to render the subscription somewhat worthless. With a quatenus qualifier, anyone from an IFB baptist to an Oriental Orthodox miaphysite could claim, with a straight face, to hold to the Book of Concord - because they'd simply discard all the portions they don't agree with as being not in accordance with scripture. If you're going to hold to a confessional document, it should be a quia subscription. Obviously, I'm not an unbiased observer here, and a discussion on the difference between Quatenus and Quia subscriptions by an unbiased observer might be worthwhile.

[@ivorkovac303]

I don't get how they can say it's not in agreement with scripture when they themselves don't believe the Bible is infallible. If the Bible is not infallible you have no standard, so why pretend?

[@behanner]

The majority of Lutherans in the history of our split from Rome have not held Quia of the Book of Concord. This over emphasis on the Book of Concord is something that is mostly found among Confessional Lutherans. Lutheranism like the Concordia it built on the Confession of Augsburg. Over our history that has been the gauge used.

[@Sebman1113]

A quia subscription to the book of Concord is idolatry.

[@unit2394]

Was just talking about this today.

[@jacksprattt6396]

The ELCA has rejected the Lutheran Confessions. They have also rejected the Holy Bible as the word of God.

[@Rolando_Cueva]

Nah they just rejected Romans 1 and two verses from Leviticus.

[@Sebman1113]

This is blatantly false

[@jacksprattt6396]

@@Sebman1113 In a recent official convention they voted to no longer adhere to the Book of Concord.

[@Sebman1113]

@@jacksprattt6396 there's no evidence to back your claim.

[@jacksprattt6396]

@@Sebman1113 I watched part of the ELCA Convention several years ago when they were voting on whether to accept the Book of Concord - they voted in opposition to it. I know the ELCA ordains women and is in full altar and pupit fellowship with churches that reject the Bible as God's word and do not accept the Book of Concord either.

[@gabrielryan6078]

I'd love for you to do a video about why the Episcopal Church does not consider ACNA Anglican. They have made any OFFICIAL statements, but, yaknow....

[@ReadyToHarvestClips]

Here you go! kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIDdhHuLeKyqf8U

[@FruitOvTheDoom]

Left TEC for ACNA. While there are many Orthodox folks in TEC they are becoming increasingly rare and the leaders of the church are doing all they can to kill any remaining Orthodox belief. It's so sad to see. Many beautiful historic churches are left with empty pews and adorned with rainbow flags, striving to remain relevant to the secular world, they are fueling their own demise

[@SantaFe19484]

So, you have a channel dedicated to clips from your other channel?

[@nilsalmgren4492]

If you must first follow God to then be a Lutheran, then ELCA can't be Lutheran. But if you must simply follow the Lutheran catechism, the ELCA can be Lutheran.

[@behanner]

I have only seen a few of your videos but I hope your videos are of better content than this one. While the ELCA being liberal makes the relationship much more difficult, this is not why the LCMS says the ELCA is not Lutheran. This goes back to a debate in the 16th century before the Book of Concord even existed, and is one of the reasons why it does exist. There are two versions of the Augustana. That which was presented at Augsburg and that which Melanchthon published. They are not the same, notably the part on the presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Book of Concord cleared this up and people ignored that the debate happened. Until the 19th century when the German states were reconstituted after Napoleon. Some states needed to have churches that were both Lutheran and Reformed and they used the second Augustana as a stamp of approval. Those churches became known as Neo Lutherans and the adherents to the original Augustana became knowns as Old Lutherans. The LCMS was founded by a subsect of Old Lutherans called Confessional which seeks adherence to the Book of Concord. The ACL was a much more Old Lutheran church and had good relations with the LCMS until it began talks to unite with the LCA a more neo-Lutheran church to form the ELCA which has followed a very neo-Lutheran policy. This isn't just liberalism but real historical dispute that is of importance. I'm not sure what the LCMS would do if a liberal Confessional Lutheran church were to emerge in the US.

[@Sebman1113]

I think you are one of the few people in this comment section who mostly gets it. I will ad on as somewhat of an American Lutheran historian myself though that the ALC was only comprised half of German old Lutherans, the other half was Norwegians and Danes who were kind of pietistic by nature but they agreed with inerrancy. The Scandinavian Churches also just never felt a need to subscribe to the Book of Concord either so this may have given it a lower view among those in the historic ALC.

[@behanner]

@@Sebman1113 Scandinavians had no reason to adopt the Book of Concord because if you don't have a bunch of crypto Calvinists running around you don't need it. The only Lutheran symbol that has actual authority is the Confession of Augsburg, being Lutheran means adherence to it. The Book of Concord is only a statement of Lutheran orthodoxy at a time it was needed.

[@aSkyrimDraugr]

The irony of ELCA Lutherans calling out real Lutherans for following doctrine not found in Scripture is hilarious when you consider that is what Luther did to us Catholics 😂😂 How the turn tables

[@oatmealtruck7811]

I grew up in the ELCA. It became strange as the desire for “inclusiveness” led to irreverence and lack of meaning. I left the church as an adult. When I decided to return to Christianity, I went to an LCMS church. I was so struck and humbled at what REALLY Lutheranism was. It was like all the distortions had been thrown off, and I finally saw a truly reverent service. I remain thankful to the LCMS church. As I further studied church history, well… I’m in OCIA now, and I’ll be received home to Rome at Easter Service. ✝️ Please be patient with true Lutherans, and all who call Christ their savior, and every soul on earth. Pray they come home.

[@Kaptin_Kegger]

Our family left the ELCA in the mid 90s for LCMS. The statement from the website is accurate and also referenced irl regularly. Recently joined an EPC church in town, but the Germanic in me… sometimes I feel like a traitor. 😅

[@richardtiedeman5679]

Who made the Missouri Synod the Pope of the Lutheran's?

[@convertedsinner9536]

So your view is that the LCMS can't state an opinion unless they are the pope? Who made you the Pope of the LCMS?

[@johnhouchins3156]

Any confessional Lutheran church body would agree that the LCMS is right on this one. If you don't hold to the Lutheran confessions (statement of beliefs), how can you even BE Lutheran?

[@itsthehumidityyall8303]

The pope probably allows ELCA to be communed in Catholic Church since they’re so similar anymore.

[@ivorkovac303]

We don't have a Pope, but we have the Bible. IF you don't even believe in the Bible you can't call yourself a Lutheran, because the whole point of our movement was to have the Bible as the supreme infallible authority for doctrine, and the only authority. Also if you reject the classical official statements from our church, then you have gone into the territory of being something else.

[@Sebman1113]

@@ivorkovac303 yeah, that's why the ELCA is more Lutheran, we hold the Bible in its nuances to be of higher authority.

[@jasonharris2291]

XXXA

[@EvangelicalCatholicofthe-kr7yy]

As always, nice summary. It's worth noting, that most of us who pay attention to these things also consider the ELCA to no longer be Christian, let alone Lutheran.

[@shanekahrs4776]

Every Liberal Cause Affirmed Or Even Leading Children Astray

[@alphabeta8284]

watch the heretics fight amongst themselves. Laughs in Salve Regina.

[@johnshelton1141]

What are talking about?

[@stevekohl5351]

@jackspratt6396 This ELCA Lutheran wants know where is your proof. Why do you make such false claims?

[@ivorkovac303]

Can a man marry a man?

[@eliinapajunen7500]

From the outside looking in, it's ridiculous to me how people who call ELCA "not Lutheran" act as if "Lutheran"-ness is the standard of truth and goodness. It's not.

[@Sebman1113]

yeah, Jesus is the standard of good. I still like being Lutheran, I like my confessions, I believe they were a faithful interpretations in their time, but I also believe the Bible has more authority and we learn more over time. That's what we believe in the ELCA and I take it any day over the LCMS (though I do not like how progressive some congregations are but they are not the norm).

[@justinLoliver]

ELCA representing

[@karlhenke91]

Same! I wasn't allowed to take communion at my grandfather's LCMS church after I got confirmed ELCA in the late 90s, it felt weird.

[@jacksprattt6396]

@@karlhenke91 Do you know why?

[@karlhenke91]

@@jacksprattt6396 Yes, they believed my parents and I were a different religion than they were, or at least an incompatible sect.

[@jacksprattt6396]

@@karlhenke91 They were correct and more so now.

[@karlhenke91]

@@jacksprattt6396 Oh, I'm not salty about it today. This is from when I was 11. LCMS suuuper wouldn't let me take communion today.

[@youtubecensors5419]

If you think Pride Month is too short and want to celebrate it every week, the ELCA is for you! 🎉🏳️‍🌈🫃🏻

[@Sebman1113]

maybe in a more urban congregation, but you also have some rather conservative congregations too. The one I typically attend does not typically discuss the topic and I prefer it that way.

[@toadster_strudel]

ELCA is to Lutheran as Unitarian Universalist is to Christian.

[@BirdDogey1]

Because they've abandoned the bible.

[@Sebman1113]

yes, the LCMS has abandoned the Bible to idolize the confessions.

[@BirdDogey1]

@Sebman1113 Troll