Why these sound WEAK at Live shows!

[@kurtfroberg3608]

I used to bring a full Marshall stack to gigs. And then a few months in, I realized I didn’t need it cuz I’m a keyboard player.

[@metalinyourhead3604]

Come on man, John Lord did it all the time 😅

[@ChrisBlackTV]

I bet they could be a reasonably good keyboard stand

[@southernpanda33]

Just crank the gain and you’ll be fine

[@charlesrocks]

😂😂😂

[@michaelrodgers6559]

I used to call full-stacks "stage peens".

[@_NoDrinkTheBleach]

The sound guy is the secret sauce to live sound. I've been to venues that had an in-house sound guy who made real amps sound like trash.

[@octavioimazio]

true!

[@adriancole9681]

That’s when you move the mic and crank the amp

[@SilentNightBodomNight]

Makes you wonder how those people got that job.

[@_NoDrinkTheBleach]

@@SilentNightBodomNight Owner's cousin for sure.

[@niteshades_promise]

i had great results giving them a $20 and offering to get them drink(s). 🍻

[@NihilQuest]

If the band plays with real amps there's a good chance they have them on stage blasting towards the audience, so it's not just the house front speakers you hear. If they play with sims, they may have them in their floor wedges or in-ears, so that alone can make a big difference in comparison, at least in a club venue.

[@timothymcnaughton531]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@mrcoatsworth429]

Yeah, on huge stages the guitar tone from the real cabs gets lost (unless you're Angus Young). But in small gigs, it's a way bigger part of the overall sound. Just like an acoustic drum kit. Especially right in front of the stage.

[@DaviSiqueiraSilva]

Exactly. The problem with thin guitar live sound is that "silent stage" mantra we're living by. Just use backline guitar cabs for some stage volume. You'll feel better, play better and your live sound will never disappear again.

[@karolkozak64]

this is 100% my experience. without onstage monitoring aimed at your audience all they get is drums and bass. and the guitar tone is wimpy and tiny blasting just through the PA.

[@justfortier]

Coheed uses power amps, and Mesa cabs with their Axe FX. Works well, and best of both worlds in my opinion as the stage volume isn't quite as insane drowning out the vocals.

[@markseagraves5486]

G. I really appreciate your focus on getting shit done. Naps are essential! I learned from a very famous film director many years ago. He sat 20 mins of TM meditation twice a day and had a hard out at 7pm each night. Sure sometime you have to burn the midnight oil, but chasing inspiration until you are exhausted can be a sign of insecurity. Being secure in your creativity, taking a break, enjoying family and some food may connect you best with what drives inspiration.

[@DrGand]

I saw Dying Fetus live at Saint Vitus in NYC and the opening band Stabbed sounded bigger and heavier with a couple 6505+ full stacks compared to Dying Fetus going direct with no cabs on stage. When Dying Fetus went on-stage I could actually have a conversation with the bartender; the bass and guitars disappeared. It was all kick, snare and vocals.

[@ROOKTABULA]

So the headliners show was aborted, huh?

[@DrGand]

@@ROOKTABULA Dying Fetus was the headliner. It was in September, 2021.

[@cthalupa6879]

@@DrGand He's making a joke about their name.

[@DrGand]

@@cthalupa6879 Oh, I thought he was asking about the band Aborted lol

[@golgothatheend]

I had an opposite experience. Went to katatonia show once, they went full ampless, but the sound was crisp. I do believe sound engineers role become way more significant when they live without any amps on stage for monitoring sake, but I do believe there isn’t too much of a skilled engineers out there, especially when it comes to small venues.

[@CorbenEdward]

That katana question brought me back to the old days of recording guitars with my line six spider III straight into the soundcard of my dads PC.

[@DanJayMusic]

Hahaha this brought me back

[@nokturnalsound2465]

I had this issue with amp modeling not being present enough in a live situation and I fixed it. I can only speak for my own experience with two specific units: a line 6 HD500X and an Axe FX 3, but these two modelers are at relatively opposite sides of the value spectrum and I was able to get both of them sounding really good live. I was in a thrash band and preparing for my first tour with a pretty big headliner. I was obsessed with preparing for the tour so I didn't look like a scrub in front of the other bands. The problem with modeling vs real amps is the amount of room for user error in the modeling units. Most real amps will still sound very present in a live mix even if you dial them in poorly... modelers, on the other hand, can absolutely disappear in the room unless you really know what you're doing with the frequencies. So how did I fix it? Before the tour I rented space at a local studio with a good PA and dialed my patches in at very loud volume. You can create a patch that sounds amazing in your house, but once you add all that amplification power from a big PA the frequencies are a bit different. In the loud studio all my mids suddenly became more important for being present in the mix. The trebles and "presence" frequencies became too unpleasant and needed to be turned down significantly. Turning down gain and distortion (just a little bit) can also make your tone keep up better with the other instruments. The other important thing in my modeling chain (just like in real amps was the CAB CHOICE) choosing an impulse response that sounds right in a LOUD environment is very different than in your living room. So later when I bought a Fractal, I did the same thing and created my patches in a studio over a loud PA and got the same result. I often get compliments on my guitar tone and that's awesome feedback to get as a guitarist. I'm not interested in the argument of real cabs vs modelers because I've heard both sound great and it comes down to what works for you personally. The tone is in the fingers... the fingers you use to dial in your sound 😉

[@roberteltze4850]

Your last story about M&M they said "the creative flow is working" that was probably because everyone was well rested and operating at their best. The best way to keep doing that is to not push yourself with overtime.

[@frost420ptbo]

The katanas are an absolute overlooked gem. They do have an interface built in and yes, you can get the cab sim through that output. I def recommend them. Using the artist 100 mkii head now. I’m closer to the Kawarthas or I’d offer to pop by with it!

[@djsusan00]

5:30 I have heard many times before that venues turn down the PA for opening acts, and then turn them up for the headliner. I'm not sure if every venue does it, but I have heard it is a thing. Not sure though, if anyone has anymore insight please let us know. I've only been to a few shows where I notice anyone using modelers. Old band I used to play for, ended up leaving but filmed a show used modelers with no cabs, they were def thin in comparison of other bands using regular cabs live. Not sure if it was the modelers they are using.

[@jamestford3963]

Re: Modeler vs physical amp live thickness. I think the difference may be because mic'd up live cabs generally face the crowd and modelers are often monitored through floor monitor wedges facing the rear of the stage (or even just though in-ears). Cranked tube amps can be very loud, maybe even loud enough to make a perceivable difference given the right venue circumstances.

[@nephilim5]

Wonderful way to end the video (re: doing what is best for our health). I have struggled with this quite a bit in my "middle years," so affirmation for naps and better self-care is especially welcome. Thanks, Glenn!

[@LowEnd-DropC]

Love your videos Glen!! Keep up the great work!!

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

Thanks, will do!

[@michaelsnydermusic]

11:38 late to the party and no doubt someone has said this but just in case, you can get the OG Megadeth masters on digital still. Fun fact, Mustaine also chose alternate guitar takes for some of the remasters. 🤷‍♂️ P.S. more info you probably have: Rick Beato interviewed Brendan O’Brien and oh man is it a treasure trove of info. It took me a week to go through it but it’s good stuff.

[@michaelacostantini]

Great video as always, Glenn.

[@Orodrethxvx]

Thanks for bringing back the recommendations!! Also- your mixes are always awesome sorry for never saying that before!

[@danielsimard6506]

On the point of real amps vs modelers in a live setting. I believe it is a matter of using / setting the proper sound in the modeler. Also, a non-negligeable factor: In the crowd, you don't get the on stage cab sound with a modeler but you do with a real amp and this might change the perspective quite a bit.

[@sole__doubt]

I think most players are also not understanding that to play with a band your guitar cant be too scooped. That killer scooped tone that sounds great by itself might not cut through in the mix. Also dialing down on the gain is another thing that helps keep your sound full.

[@davidthomas9960]

I played a show at reggies in Chicago opening for a band that only used iridium’s and we used a deluxe reverb and a musicman 75 reverb and all anybody told me all night was how flat the headliners sounded after us. I use modellers in all my other bands but after that I’m considering getting some kind of FRFR/cab solution to get more stage volume for my guitar.

[@Fazowiec]

@ 5:20 Years ago I played a gig with a bunch of Marshalls in the backline: a JCM 900DR, a JCM 2000 DSL, and a plexi - all 100W half-stacks. At sound check, as soon as the boosted plexi kicked in, it easy overwhelmed not just the other two, but the drums and bass as well. It seems like there's something about the voicing of the plexi - specifically: its midrange - that really hits the sweet spot in human hearing. Anecdotal evidence, but I was blown away just by how much *louder* it sounded than everything else.

[@ivanf3352]

One of the cool things of the katana MK2 is that is possible to use as a reamp box. For recording I normally use the second output and record the DI signal, cabinet emulation is nothing fancy in the katana, better use impulse response but normally I don't use the katana for recording, the signal output is too low I usually increase +20 dB on Reaper to get decent levels, I tweak all the configuration of the amp but apparently nothing works

[@the_malefactor]

If the band using modeling wasn't using cabs on stage, one explanation certainly is that they were missing some sound on the deck. In a smaller venue in particular, the cabs have a big impact on filling out the sound - of course, it adds all kinds of potential complications, but I've rarely been happy with the mix in a smaller club venue when there's no guitar coming off the deck.

[@ManuSDP]

Yes. Cabs. Last tour we did we had to play a show without cabs and I don’t know how it sounded out front but on stage as well it kinda sucked playing direct. It doesn’t really matter if head or modeller, if you have a cab you’ll be heard

[@travisspaulding2222]

This is the issue. If a person is in the front row, there is a good chance the PA is not in front of them, but next to them. If there is only drums and bass sound from the stage, then you will not hear the guitars out of the PA. We solved it by using FRFR cabs so that there is still some stage volume.

[@NelsonBlakeII]

Yup. I use Line 6 through a power amp and go through cabs just like a head.

[@_hide_-lb1gk]

This! I thought the same but couldn't word it right. Thank you.

[@mikefoster5423]

I would say that this is my experience on this issue too. I feel like it's more of a power thing where the venue PA just isn't up to the task of producing the full sound at the same volume that the amp+speaker cab bands are playing. I've been to club shows where the bands used modelling (tech death stuff) and it sounds great cause the venue has a great PA and subs capable of producing the full range of frequencies. On the flipside i've played bar shows where another band on the bill is doing the amp modelling thing and just didn't have the same volume and frequency range, and they always sound quieter and thinner. The conclusion to me is that if you're going to go modelling, it's best to have some cabs behind on you the stage or be damn sure the PA is putting out some serious wattage.

[@guitboxgeek]

Hey Glenn, haven't caught your recent vids because yt can't stop screwing with the algorithm, sigh. Anyway, I just wanted to say that watching your latest vid you look healthy and less stressed. It seems like you're in a really good space right now and I loved your advice about work-life balance. Keep up the great work man!

[@sullensenium]

On the amp sims live topic... where you are in the room from the audience perspective plays a huge part of how big or small you hear the guitars/bass if the band is not using cabs for stage noise. We are used to hear the noise of the stage in conjunction with the FOH sound when we are at a live show. Take the cabs away and you are taking the stage noise away.

[@freqhandy]

5:22 25yr engineer here.. it's a matter of in box processing (usually set poorly by player) and engineering/distribution. I, and many other engineers, can make a reasonable amp sim/modeler blow any real amp out of the water with the appropriate m/s config, decent PA, and control over the tone and effects.

[@riccardocuoghi2071]

From what I know, the reason why guitars with modelers disappear in some live shows depends a lot on the venue and the positioning of the listener. It happened several times to be in the front row at a concert where the only listening source was the subwoofer while the PA was not only far from my ears but also positioned slightly behind where I was standing and in short I heard exclusively bass, l 'acoustics of the drums and the voice while everything else is difficult except for the reflection of the room. In some venues, however, I saw small monitors placed on the stage facing the listener and I can confirm that everything was clearer to me and I had the right perception of every single instrument. Then I speak from my experiences

[@colelewis9940]

When you listen to a band with real heads, those heads and cabs are being micd, and then going through.... The PA.

[@flyingrat492]

@@colelewis9940stage volume bleeds to the front of the crowd below where the line arrays hit. Tbh the easiest way to solve this is to just have a bunch of single boxes sitting on top of the stage front sub array, that’s what I see most often and my most recent large concert, where one band was all modeling and the other actual guitar amps, there really wasn’t a discernible difference in quality of sound

[@riccardocuoghi2071]

@@colelewis9940 I know, but (unless the cabinets are facing the audience) you still have the perception of the unmiked cabinet

[@colelewis9940]

@@flyingrat492 You are not wrong that the signal will bleed. but really its not much as least for most of the audience. The solution is also really easy if you want the same result. Do the same thing. Run the signal out to sound real cabs as well as FRFR or PA. Easy

[@flyingrat492]

@@colelewis9940 I mean yeah you could, but then I’ve already basically proposed a solution for problems with first row coverage, it’s just have a better PA setup. I don’t really like FRFR cabs, the whole point of modeling is to be light, compact and portable and adding a combo sized speaker setup entirely defeates the purpose of that

[@BenCDaugherty]

Hey Glenn, love your videos! Sorry if I sound like that guy, but the original bad company song was tracked not with marshals but with ampeg v4s! Hope this helps

[@NelsonBlakeII]

I play live often(Locked in a Vacancy). It’s not the amp sims, it’s the sound guy. If you use an amp sim through a cabinet on stage, you’re pushing air and it’s indistinguishable from a tube amp. Going front of house relies on the sound guy(or gal) to replicate this effect. Glen, I know you get this but in a live, metal setting, you have to dial it back on the gain, especially with a modeler or profile. The digital amps allow you to hang yourself with gain in a way that is automatically policed with a tube amp.

[@stratwrassler]

Yep, live too much gain just adds a bunch of mushy noise that doesn't cut through the mix much. Sounds much different than at low bedroom practice volumes etc.

[@jdestrada6281]

This and I think stage volume plays a factor in it as well. 9x10 most sound guys cut too much low end out of the guitars. If you push your sims through a cab or fr speaker on stage that would make up for some of that loss and sound more “natural” or real. I remember seeing that band Currents live recently and they were all using amp sims with no cabs and it sounded like the guitars were trying to tell me a secret.

[@phunniguy]

In terms of live sound and modelers, I found that running a split signal - FOH receiving a signal with the cab sim, and running a signal without a cab sim into a power amp and a cab on stage for the stage wash - really works wonders for believability. Additionally, when EQing your patches at home at low volumes, they have to sound super boxy and like shit in order to sound correct and huge live. That being said, I set my rhythm guitar gain just enough to turn the muted picking into a chug and that's it. FOH engineer was always happy with the final result.

[@markbouwmeester1244]

A very humbling episode; especially at the end. Thanks Glen.

[@mathumphreys]

Can't wait to see your episode on the effect of too much gain on the thickness (bigness) of your sound. I'm going to predict that you will find it's definitely a thing! I learnt this by doing a bunch of tests myself (on valve amps) and reading articles from heavy producers who also advise dialing it back in the studio. I was also reminded of the issue by Greg DeLaune (search KZbin) a few years ago when I was trying to get a good sound out of a modeler (it is super easy to have waaay to much gain dialed in with these) . His advice was to dial the gain right back - got me a lot closer to an acceptable sound.

[@jacobwooten5137]

Awesome thanks glenn, to the best of my knowledge the guitars sound fine just couldn't help but feel like I might have been doing something wrong really appreciate the reassurance!

[@jaycer71]

I use a fractal ax8 live and constantly get compliments on how good it sounds. Honestly, yes I spent time dialing in a good live tone, but, I also deal with some really great sound men. Totally give 90% of the credit to them. They can make or break you.

[@terran236]

so whats the secret sauce? haha Which frequencies are important for live? 2000-3000hz?

[@jaycer71]

@@terran236 If only I knew. Good sound man definitely the secret. Oh, and pick a good IR. That is always the elusive search. I'm pretty sure I am usually using an Ownhammer marshall pack. V30 with 58's.

[@terran236]

@@jaycer71 v30s maybe vanilla but damn they sound good. They have that low end mid thump while sounding clear and complex on the upper Frequencies. Some speakers sound 2 dimensional.

[@jaycer71]

@@terran236 Agreed. People say try something new. Why? Tried and true for a reason. And I meant 57s not 58s. My bad on that one.

[@TranscendentBen]

17:04 I moved to Long Island for a job and it was much like I was afraid it would be, the "work work work" attitude of NYC and that whole area of the country, getting up with the chickens and "being productive." I wish I'd heard your response to this when I was in high school or college, which was quite a while back.

[@DustinRadtke]

When comparing modeling to tube amps at a live show, it depends on the setup. Modelers usually go straight into the front of house and use a wedge or IEM (silent stage). A live amp involves a head into a cab, with the mic'd amp going to the FOH and the cab filling the space with guitar. Essentially adding extra speaker/speakers with only guitar, that the crowd can usually hear. If you ran a modeler using the four-cable method into the same cab, most people in the crowd wouldn't notice a difference. The final piece is, you have to EQ your modeler different in the FOH for live shows if going direct.

[@msmoniz]

As far as real amps live vs amp sims, pretty sure it comes down to who is mixing the FOH sound. I saw the last 2 Mark Knopfler tours; in 2015 he had real amps mic'd on stage, and in 2019 there were no amps at all so he was likely using sim or profiling setup. Both times everything sounded great! Other than the lack of amps on stage, I noticed nothing sound wise and actually remarked how great all the guitars sounded for being sims or profiles. Plus Brian Baker uses a Kemper profile live of his favourtite Marshall he now refuses to tour with anymore to protect it, and Bad Religion still sound great live!!

[@cthalupa6879]

Knopfler switched to a Kemper for his live stuff in 2019, so you're correct

[@seanrichards9569]

It (mostly) starts with the player. For a short time I mixed FOH for someone named Jeff Healey, one of the better Hendrix style blues players of the 80s and 90s. By the time I worked with him he’d gotten as big as he’d ever be, had techs, and a monitor engineer, as well as FOH, so the band would never soundcheck, and just walks on stage to play. Jeff was well known to play two modded Marshall heads into 4x12 cabs. And he played them LOUD, you couldn’t do what he did without that. Anyway, my first show was a fly date and he wanted to try something different. Remember the OG modeler, the Line 6 Pod? That silly red bean looking thing? Well that was what he used, just on a standard ‘Marshall’ patch. He never even set it up (he’s 100% blind), his tech did. Everyone HATES those Pods now, but man did he make it sound good. Honestly, you’d never have known. So, yeah, 99% of it is in the fingers, the other 1% is a decent FOH person getting out of the way and letting the guitar player do their thing.

[@michaelscarabino]

Absolutely correct! I believe it all falls on how the user designs their presets. The tonal decision you make, and the gain staging you do scene by scene, will make or break how you sound in a live mix.

[@luquesxannial2319]

Hey glen! Reamp boxes are pretty expensive where im from so if ur looking for an alternative one day, you can always use a DI box in reverse! Just send out your DI signal from ur interface to the di box and into your amp/axe fx/cortex etc. It works! You can also use the thru section if u wanna record another amp if your interface has enough i/o

[@MalignantNZ]

I use a helix live, and ever since switching over to it from my dual rec stack, I have got just as many comments about how good my tone sounds. My one bit of advice, however, would be to put a fairly aggressive high cut on your global effects. This takes away a lot of the fizz from using hi gain sounds, and your guitar will just sit better in the mix. Oh and the sound guy will love you for it.

[@Poepopdestoep]

Yep, everything after 7500hz/8000hz is just noise. Especially with high gain sounds.

[@christopherhorton4634]

Thanks for the shout-out! Been watching for years. The Katana Gen 3 ks worth looking in to. Give one a blind review. Im reviewing one as we speak. Very interesting Class A/B power section that will cut on stage.

[@Ouvii]

14:44 sound quality kinda won the loudness war, but pop tracks are still going up on Spotify as like -5LUFS just incase a listener turns off the auto-normalize option. So you still kinda have the loudness war. As a side note, KZbin will automatically turn down your mix so that it is -1dB true peak and -13LUFS (I've heard different things about the number: some people say it is 14 or 15.) so you might as well just have a version mastered specifically for KZbin to get maximum dynamics for your upload. If you uploaded a -10LUFS mix to KZbin, you lose about 3dB (a doubling of sound energy) of dynamic range that you could have had, so make sure you do some research on the topic-at the very least read an article about loudness standards or do your own experiments for bonus points.

[@Emily_M81]

"Better drink a Redbull, you can't sleep on life." - Young Jeezy Guitar speakers: you owe it to yourselves to check out the Celestion Midnight 60. Completely underrated and slept on, imo. There aren't even IRs for this thing let alone pre-made cabs with it. But I think it sounds so, so good.

[@connorkeen6645]

I have a 2500 watt 15" PA speaker and modeler that together work great with guitar and bass. I find that just running my modeler into monitors really does have those problems but when I simply bring my PA speaker and put it behind me like an amp when using my modeler (usually do, but I've played through my pedalboard and half stack enough) it pretty much solves the issues typically associated with a modeler rig. It gets the stage volume back and feels more like playing through an amp, while being a much lesser headache than bringing a "real" amp although that may be attributed to my being used to using it as my amp for most gigs (without FOH). But, my board (with a Northern Mauler and a Revv G4 clone, thanks Glenn!) in front of my orange head/marshall cab half stack is still THE #1 ass kicker even if just due to the aesthetics.

[@BettyTheRaccoon]

I thought the answer would be something among the lines of "The studio sound of the guitar is basically not that bottom heavy and overall solo rhythm guitar don't sound that impressive by themselves but they work in a mix" I suppose the mix-ready most of the sims provide doesn't work live no?

[@brettmarlar4154]

It could be the lack of actual cabinets on stage. Depending on where you're viewing the show, if you're up close you won't feel the air move from the speakers as you would with the real amps. If you're outside of the front of house speakers, the differences should be less noticeable.

[@karolkozak64]

I was using fractal and kemper for some 3 years without any additional on stage monitors. Just straight IEMs. And our sound was very narrow and almost too flat. The guitar seemed tiny. I then watched a few bands using the same devices and those who had a great sound were always using at least a 2x12 if not a 4x12 with a power amp pointed at the audience. The people in the first rows will hear nothing if you dont bring at least something on stage. And if you have a loud drummer, you play a smaller club and the bass player is going into a bass cab.. you're properly fcked. There's something about a cab pushing air onstage into the audience that couples with the PA sound for a better much fuller experience.. it's almost like you need something that's gnarly and asymetrical and does not sound 'nice'.

[@BarnyardTheSilverback]

Good stuff this week Glenn, as always. Still hoping for tone test of a Celestion Type-A and G12T-75 together in a 2x12, but also have a new question. How do you balance getting a band a great tone on the record with giving them the sound they want? For example, you want to mix it one way, but they want it to have this entirely different sound because that's how they want it to sound.

[@jacksonhoward3743]

I have giged for a while on meddelers) modellers (line 6 Helix family stuff) and have had gigs with amazing sound and compliments on how great and full our guitars sounded. But I've also had gigs where the sound guy had no idea what to do with them and they sounded terrible until I went and helped fix it. Here are my tips 1. Take time finding a good IR 2. Set up All your patches and snapshots to be the same volume unless it's solo boost 3. End of your signal chain Use something like the Helix tube comp and tweak global EQ. These will help fill in the sound signal (and you can Do your own low cut) 4. And this is importand MAKE SURE THE SOUNDTECH DOESN'T PUT HIS DEFAULT GUITAR CAB MIC EQ ON!! I have had this happen a few times and my sound was abysmal as all the low cuts and anti feedback eq settings decimate your tone. Tell them you have spend time Pre eqing your tone so please don't mess with It! (also don't let them add compression if you have it at the end of your patches already like I often do)

[@gregalon]

#4 is a huge factor. Aside from the "that's how I've always done it" mindset, I think they don't realize to what extent that they've been mixing in conjunction with the stage volume of a real amp, including what bleeds into other mics. They need to compensate for that ambient wash not being there. Conversely you get sound engineers who are used to working with modelers exclusively and don't know how to mix with a real amp on stage. You either get "can you turn down more, I can still hear you out front" or they immediately put some shields up.

[@seancooper779]

I've seen Metallica, def Leppard, and Shinedown live and all used AxeFx units exclusively. The sound was sensational every time.

[@robertstan2349]

i personally wouldn't look to any of them for good guitar tone. coincidence? i think not

[@HerculesEinstein]

@@robertstan2349 k, what's your point? do you even have one related to the OP?

[@robertstan2349]

@@HerculesEinstein let me do this with crayons so you can understand. use a real amp, you dorks

[@sean_miller]

@@robertstan2349 Real amps ain’t worth the headache, Rob. Mine stays in the studio where it belongs.

[@ryanfraley7113]

@@robertstan2349 So much of the sound isn’t AXE-FX vs Tube Amp but how skilled the sound guy is in a live environment. I’ve been to concerts where tubes sound great and concerts where they sound like ass. Same with modelers. Metallica has their own sound guys and the live sound is indistinguishable to the tube amps they use in studio.

[@Kevin.Kelly.]

I’ve been to many shows with the amp sim situation as well.. the real amps always cut and the bands with the sims sound thin. I don’t know the physics why.

[@patrickfouhy9102]

I used to gig with my Mesa rig that had a 2:90 power amp and two 2x12 cabs in stereo. Now I gig direct with a Headrush. I'm still working with a lot of the same sound people I have for years at the local venues here, and they've all told me how different it is to mix a direct signal compared to live amps. From an audience perspective, there's no stage volume, so it really depends on the PA setup as well. Many venues where I live (Seattle) are putting front facing wedges on the front of the stage now to help fill in the gap. It used to be if you stood too close to the stage at smaller venues you'd hear less vocals, but you'd still hear the amps/drums. If the bassist and guitarists are going direct, and a traditional PA setup is being used, then all you'll hear are drums. Makes for a really bad mix for the people up close. And yes, higher gain doe lead to a thinner sound live regardless of amp sim or amp, and it's made much much worse by scooping mids. Guitar is a midrange instrument. More gain = more compression. This almost always has a very negative effect on the low end, either over hyping it, or eliminating it all together. Both put the sound person in an impossible situation where they will either have to cut your low end on the board, giving your scooped tone that already lacks mids, no low end support. So you're left with the chainsaw tone. The other would be having to boost your low end, and that just always sounds artificial and too boomy. In a recording situation, this isn't as big of a deal.

[@daveethridge7342]

I recommend The Boss Katana. They're affordable, versatile, and lightweight. You can always change the speakers if you want. There's built-in effects and a wattage control. The 0.5 watt if you don't want to be annoying. 25, 50, or 100 watts if you do want rock out.

[@wesleytrott6397]

I saw Animals as Leaders with Between the Buried and Me. AAL used Axe FX and I could barely hear the guitars through the wall of low end coming though. BTBAM also used Axe FX, but they run their signal through a Mesa power amp to a mic'd up 4x12 cab and they sounded awesome! A few years later, I saw Trivium with BTBAM. Same thing. Trivium used Kemper. Couldn't hear the guitars. BTBAM sounded phenomenal. I really think there is a difference.

[@chadwickcore]

On the animals as leaders talk, does BTBAM use 7/8 strings? With the trivium thing though, they do use 6 strings. Maybe that one is a sign of the bottom end in modellers. I know they are really thick through headphones, but now thinking of them cranked, I can understand the bottom end problems

[@wesleytrott6397]

@@chadwickcore BTBAM uses 6 strings in C# standard tuning.

[@jaydenspencemusic]

Ive heard the phrase “the distortion covers up the differences” but I wonder if that’s actually true.

[@Jgambina91]

I absolutely loved this episode! Keep up the awesome discussions and content man 🤘

[@KryZehk]

The thing with ampsims live, is that you need to have a good PA and mix, and frontfill speakers. If not, the guitars will sound weak mostly on the first rows of the public, because with amps you get more sound coverage.

[@OtherTheDave]

I would argue that front fills are more or less always needed (maybe unless the monitor engineer has the side fills turned up and sounding great), and the less stage volume there is the more important they are.

[@KryZehk]

@@OtherTheDave But sidefills aren't always there, and the sound barrier they create isn't meant for the public but for the musicians...

[@OtherTheDave]

@@KryZehk The “maybe unless” and “sounding great” are key phrases there.

[@OtherTheDave]

@@KryZehk But yes, you’re correct on both counts.

[@watchthp]

I wonder if "real" amps sound better live because they are easier to adjust on stage, when they enter the mix vs. being set up by themselves before the gig. so they sound better because they're tuned in that live situation.

[@jonathanratcliffe5714]

Cheers Glen, working as a live engineer with a couple of local bands with awesome guitarists. We did the whole silent stage things with modellers, it sucked. Got the amps back out, it rocked. I got told an adage by an old guitarist once, he said if your guitars getting lost, back off the gain and turn up the mids. Might be something in it, is it being less compressed? More separation? More definition? Finding the right sonic hole?

[@michaelpartridge2049]

Purely anecdotal, but I've went to a show recently, small venue maybe 50 people, and there was a metal band playing without a drummer. They were playing to backing tracks and then their guitars and bass were going through modeller as well. There was definitely a different feel in the room. I wish there was something I could say that felt more science based, but my best guess would be something about the lack of air movement and sound pressure change? There is something about a small room with loud amps blazing on stage that cuts different to a band all running modellers through the PA. Could it be a sense of frequency separation? If everything is coming through the PA it doesn't "fill out" the room? Most smaller gigs the only thing going through the PA are vocals, kick and snare (maybe some bass and guitar if its a decent venue).

[@24aEnnisRoad]

If you want to use an amp-sim live, you need to put it through a valve power amp and crank it (use a soak if a nyone freaks out over the volume).

[@edtlonsway]

Whether you like them or not Metallica us using Fractals now and the live shows sound great. Likely more about the tone dialed in and mix vs. a problem with the technology.

[@MadNoisy]

Power naps (max 20 minutes) seems to work for a lot of people 🤘🤘 Always love the bloopers 😁

[@wieslawirzyniec4527]

Hey Glenn As for a mixing advice on going drums > bass > guitar - this has helped me a lot. I usually now create the drum track, then record the bass (and make sure it fits) and then record guitars. Listening to such soundtrack actually helps me to record guitar for several reasons (among them: i am not super talented, kinda tone deaf and I am still learning - all while being 42) I guess my mixes will suck a bit less over time as well but hey, i am still learning :) Oh and I may drop the recording of my garage from early 2000's band on the discord. Recorded using a cheap pc mic stuck in a comfy chair, played live and the mixing was just moving the amps and the chair around the room to get the best result on the windows audio recorder. The drums were a cheap Czech production and we were not aware they can be tuned, my bass was an actual abomination (a polish 'luthier' Presto-Lang with all possible fuckups), bass amp that was a 70s hand made tube amp... At least the guitar player had decent stuff. I guess i should re-record all of it after 20 years :)

[@bmc2266]

On your vids about how gain affect tickness, it would be cool to include : Tracking with the cab in an other room like most sutidio do vs amp in an other room + a 1x12" cab near the guitarist tracking or the guitarist in the cab room. That is something I want to test when my home improvement will be done and I can finally unpack my gear. I feel like when I play near a "loud" source, the take sounded better. Might be a pick up/cab interaction or purely just getting more in the vibe when tracking or just in my head. 🤷‍♂️ Love the content man

[@vincelupone]

4:50 - Here's my hypothesis. I've seen a lot of modern bands play recently and I'm old enough to have seen live bands as far back as the 90s. The modern bands that use modelers or VSTs live sound like their albums. That's great, the guitar sits nicely in the mix, everything is balanced, awesome. But that is NOT rock 'n roll in a live setting. Live is unhinged, noisy, powerful. What makes live music so great is the music is being made HERE and NOW by real musicians playing real instruments through real amps, cabs, and shells. When you digitize everything and over-produce with high pass, low pass, notch filtering, etc, that works great in a studio and should be expected to produce a slick record, but live I want energy, raw performance, and that generally comes across better with real amps and cabs. Just my opinion from my experience.

[@misfitwookiee3177]

I have a Joyo Jackman II and a Jet City Picovalve, and I'm considering a Zombie II for high-gain, low-volume recording. Would I be able to get high-gain tones using the amps I already have and just amend the gain with a pedal? Thanks.

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

The Zombie has a crap ton of gain. Killer stuff!!

[@misfitwookiee3177]

@SpectreSoundStudios Fine. Bought it for my high-gain tones like the Jackman is for my Powerslave-era sound. My 2x12 is good, as is my 1x12, so think I've got all I need for the shtuff I hear in my head.

[@N617A]

Hey Glenn. Could you please make a more detailed demonstration on how you record harmony vocals? I know you move the backing vocalist away and I know people sometimes even put a fattening delay on backing vocals to. Would love to dig into some knowledge from ya on it.

[@TheWolvesCurse]

GLEEEENN! Guitarist here. what's your opinion on the Celestion G12-60 (commonly found in Engl Standard cabs)? How does it compare to a V30 (both with a SM57 and a Sennheiser E906)? after watching your video where you found a way to make the t75 sound good, which was just using a different mic, i'm curious about these comparisons. i'd assume you have an easier access to all sorts of recording equipment and skill to make something of it, than most of us. might make for an interesting comparison video, maybe throw in a K100 and t75 as well, and throw them in a full bandmix as you usually do. A1= V30 with 57 as baseline, A2= V30 with E906; B1= G12-60 with sm57... etc. etc. Pheck you, and cheers from germany.

[@toneconsultant]

Glen, First time question provider. "Any thoughts on the VHT Chrome speaker?". IMO, I really felt that thing was unfral with a Ceslestion G75-12 in a 2x12 cab. I just thought it might be fun for folks to give it a try. I felt the chrome speaker was close to a V30, but with more body.

[@ro307805]

A DSL1 hooked to a Marshall mini stack top cab is the best bedroom volume metal amp I’ve personally experienced . I put a “10 cream back in the cabinet and it got even better.

[@ivicapavlovic3879]

Great work Glenn, keep on rockin. I watched your video and spontaneously went to see Fear Factory and Biohazard on saturday. Fear Factory was supporting them and unfortunately they did not sound good at all. It improved during the gig but not that much. Who ever did the soundcheck should have his ears cut off. It was a small stage and I did not see any amps in sight. I guess they were using Modellers. It sounded very thin. But when Biohazard hit the stage, the stacks were uncovered. Both were using the EVH heads and one was stealth on two quads. Oh boy, when they started, every cell of my body felt the sound in a righteously proper manner. So there we go!!! Hi from Switzerland

[@zachisebi]

Hey Glenn! I'm a bass player. (Insert joke here.) My band uses in ear monitoring and I'm not very happy with my monitor sound lately. I go out of the DI-out of my amp (mostly used without cab, since it has a load built in) to the FOH. I am pretty sure some kind of Cab IR would fix my problem but what is your opinion as a sound engineer having done live sound in the past. Would you prefer a dry bass signal to the FOH that you can bend however you like or a signal that already ran through a Cab IR. It is also totally possible that I am way overthinking this and should play more and worry less about gear and tone, as we all should I guess. 😀 Thanks for your time and greatings from Berlin.

[@AntmanFelix]

I remember seeing Steel Panther years ago and the opener was some hard rock country mashup band (dont remember the name). Steel Panther either had isolated cabs or plugged direct or amp sims while the opening band had Marshall Plexis and 4x12 cabs. The opening band was noticeably louder and dare i say ear piercing loud (though i liked it) in contrast to Steel Panther.

[@guitaristinterrupted3558]

Satchel uses the Atomic AmpliFIRE 3 which is an older modeler that sounds fantastic

[@AntmanFelix]

@@guitaristinterrupted3558 yeah I wasn't sure what he used but I definitely liked it. I was just speaking about how noticeably loud the Plexis into Cabs were versus the main act. It all sounded good though but just an observation I noted that day.

[@guitaristinterrupted3558]

@@AntmanFelix I mean, I imagine too that the sound is distributed all over the pa without a couple of loud speakers pointing at the crowd making it somehow less intense. You should try one of those Atomic AmpliFIRE modelers, they sound great except they’re pretty much done for.

[@briangoodchild3000]

Question. Had my Peavy Stereo Chorus since new in 87. Along with Peavy Nitro Limited. Still my favorite guitar among the herd. Tried lots of other amps but stick with Peavy 400. Had a grandkid accident with the speakers. Thought I might upgrade the 12s any advice.

[@justfortier]

I know Coheed uses the Axe FX live but they use power amps and Mesa cabs on stage as monitors, and I think that makes a huge difference.

[@bassplayer2011ify]

And on clean vs distortion. I'm not 100 percent sure about modern amps with dedicated dirty channels. But if you are driving a clean channel there is a point where it wont get any louder and it will just become more distorted. Main reason being the signal is already clipped the amplifier tube or not can't make that signal any louder. With a clean signial that hasn't been clipped and you are making every attempt to keep it clean. That will just keep getting louder and louder until something gives.

[@golgothaassassin5035]

Although it may not be said often enough, most of us who watch your channel greatly appreciate what you provide, in knowledge and honesty on products. It's nice not to be bullshitted. After all, we are all trying to learn and grow in sound.

[@ericolson326]

GLENNN ! A few months ago you suggested a viewer invest in a direct box (never a bad idea) in order to combat "the Focusrite sound" of his interface when tracking guitars. I'm curious what that 'sound' is, and how adding an extra transformer to the signal chain would help considering it still has to run through the same offending Focusrite preamp and conversion hardware. Not to be a nudge and keep asking, but I have an old Focusrite (like, pre-Scarlett old !) and my direct DIs never seem to have any snap, sparkle or shine and I'm worried that I'm trying to ice skate uphill with this interface. 🤔

[@ericolson326]

I don't gig or even jam with friends anymore, so I would LOVE to go entirely ITB and unload all these amps and cabs and pedals while there's still some semblance of a used market, but I cannot for the life of me get an even remotely acceptable sound using amp sims. Yes, I've checked/swapped out/etc the strings, pickups, cables, DI boxes, interface, headroom, gain staging, input level, monitors, room issues, etc and even with a sim's bass turned all the way down and treble all the way up my Strat bridge pickup sounds like the neck humbucker on a jazz archtop with the tone knob rolled off and two different cab IRs accidentally running at the same time. It's incredibly frustrating to say the least. 😆

[@Funkybassuk]

Definitely try the EV speaker - by all accounts, it’s the “best” guitar speaker there is. Would love to hear your take on it. Jensen did some “broken-in” speakers for Fender at one point. Not your usual thing musically!

[@AndyA1234]

I'm a bassist. In the early eighties I ditched my valve amps because they distorted and bought ultra clean solid state amps. My Trace Elliot rig was crystal clear, loud & reliable. My guitarists are always having their valve amps repaired as different components get fried.

[@tommurrayGTR]

If you're using a modeller, you need to set your tones for live and that unfortunately means doing a lot of tweaking while you're at the gig or home (that means playing at gig volume). You also have to treat it like a traditional amp and not go too crazy with the options of having a different amps for each song unless you know how to eq and level it so that your guitar stays consistent in space in the mix you're supposed to be in. This is all the same stuff for traditional amps though, if you set it up badly you're not going to cut through either. FRFR is a must IMO, and I'd strongly recommend testing your tones through your IEMs or whatever monitoring set up you depend on live.

[@ziggy4465]

I have a Katana MK II 100w combo that I use for gigs with my BOSS GX-100. I could go direct, but most of the venues we play on Long Island, NY are just not equipped. I hear sims alongside of real amps all the time and a good sound guy will dial it in so no one sounds thin. Some bands use both (one guitar player is old school and the other is tech oriented) in the same set and there’s no telling who’s using what when the sound guy knows their stuff.

[@greevar]

For playing quietly at home, I use a cab sim with a headphone output. I run an OD pedal into an EQ, into my FX, and into my cab sim.

[@Burkhimself]

As a guitarist with a fractal & marshalls, I agree that there usually is something missing in the midrange about the modelers live. I think microphones add a little magic that they haven’t quite gotten down yet…..but they constantly seem to be getting closer….

[@nobrakes3765]

Sage words of advice about quality of life, Glenn. Thanks for the reminder! I needed that.

[@crowchannel3891]

We opened for a Kiss tribute band and they had stacks of fake cabs on stage and hidden Marshall stacks on each side of the stage mic'd up. We had a Kemper and a Helix ran direct. After the show we were being told from people in the crowd that our guitars were more "in your face" than the Kiss band. There are a lot of variables at play here but the biggest one would, no doubt, have to be the sound engineer. We used to do the "silent stage" but have gone back to running our modelers into FRFR speakers to fill in the "empty space" in the middle of the stage and it really helps the overall sound and is still much more convenient than carrying around half stacks.

[@natrixxvision6997]

5:32 Anything going direct, be it a digital modeling rig with amp sims or a preamp pedal like the Laney Ironheart,…I mean first of all you gotta set it up the right way. But that’s true with any rig. Second of all…you have to let the audio engineer know. Treat it like a mic channel. The idea is to let the PA do most of the work especially volume-wise. Some engineers still aren’t completely caught up with this technology yet. But just like with recording, if you don’t get it right at the source, the engineer can do whatever you tell them and it’s still not gonna sound good.

[@ip5676]

I promise some day I'll get over how cool the intro riff is

[@JustinAdams_music]

I watched this today after seeing Glenn's video about his console computer dying a few days ago. The longevity part was ironically short lived 😬

[@furryz666]

I’ve found my AxeFx3 direct is no match for my Marshall jvm410 through a 4x12 cab live, same with my Boogie JP2C, You could compare mixes from band to band but with 2 guitar acts it’s easy to hear a difference of harmonic richness and a filling depth between my real gear and my bandmates iridium, the console monkey also notes that he needs to boost the modeler and have him cut his gain significantly, by itself it sounds fine but in the mix he is invisible especially during single note distorted lines In addition the 4x12 is nice for self monitoring at least for us older players who detest in ears

[@collectedmind3653]

The AX-84 project, back in the day, determined that it was power amp distortion that made a thicker sound than preamp distortion. There's a lot to it, but this is why (in part), they were working on low power tube amps. You could get more of that sound at a lower volume. Obviously there's a lot more to it, but it's a thought.

[@Isen_hart]

big difference in small venue with a full digital band and a band with cabs. The souind comming from the stage cab + drum does a mix itself with the room PA. Band full digital only sound from the PA and are acousticly separated from the drummer, sometime if your front scene you only ear the drummer separated from the mix. Well even if you use inear bring your cab at least for your audience if its not for you.

[@rafaelbaffini]

I have a Katana 50 MK2. It sounds pretty good if you connect it to your computer using the USB port. It does have CAB simulation. Although I still prefer my Analog rig, the Katana is great and easy to record.

[@grindstone25]

I would personally love to hear your thoughts on the new Katana release. Seems like absolutely insane value for money. If I remember correctly, they put a new speaker in there that sounds much better than the old one. Would love to see you demo it!

[@adamstrachn]

I'd love for you to do a Katana video. A deep dive into the backend where you can really tweak the tone would be beneficial for a lot of people. You can get good tones off the panel, but the Boss Tone Studio is a game changer for me. It blows away anything else in the price point by a large margin.

[@KarenBasset]

I had this discussion with the guitar player in my band just last night at our gig. He got a new multi fx processor and when hole kicks in the gain, he loses level. He's going into a Vox combo, not sure if it's a AC15 or AC30. I'd think the 30 would be better so he could bypass the Vox preamp and just use the fx return and use the power amp/speaker of the Vox. Not sure how he's got the signal flowing. Looking forward to that video you mentioned you're making on the fx/amp sim gadgets and getting them to sound, good and full.

[@sparella]

I hope the WGS Invader 50 makes it to some of the future speaker videos. Based on demos, it sounds amazingly close to the Alnico Blue, which is what the V30 was supposed to be like in the first place. I'm curious if this channel would come to the same conclusion.

[@shakarocks]

I gig tube amps and modelers. (I rarely play metal.) If you know how to set them up and the sound guy doesn't try to treat them like a mic'd up amp, modelers sound great. My rig is based around a compressor pedal, a bunch of drives, and an HX Stomp with IR's emulating a pedal platform amp. It's really a great setup, especially on fly gigs. In the event I have to drag my PA to a gig I always bring a front fill, not only to give the people in the center something to hear, but to make sure that the instruments can be heard in the center dead zone where amps would normally be heard. Works great and everyone's ears are thankful.

[@DJ7tringGuitar]

In regards to modelers vs tube amps: I think a couple of big componets that get overlooked are power section (and selection in some cases) and stage sound provided by cabinets amd/or flat response speakers.

[@shreadbringer]

The modelers gettting lost in the mix happens for med gain and clean too. I saw a top 40 band play locally, one guitar player on a bassman and it sounded huge. The other guitar player used fractal and when he soloed it disappeared. Tube amps all day!

[@davidfillmore8941]

Might be different in a stadium scenario but in clubs and bars, a MASSIVE mount of the sound YOU ARE HEARING comes from the amps roaring away contentedly on stage, not just the PA. 100W through a quad and straight into your ears DOES NOT sound like what's coming through the PA and into your ears. I use the amp sims in a GT1000, straight into the PA for the engineer, but I run a quad on stage that I have control of 100%. Keep in mind the sound pumped out of an amp sim is emulating not just the amp, but the signal line too, microphones, the lot. And that NEVER sounds the same as a Mesa/Orange/Marshall/whatever pumping from a stage that might just have that amp pointing STRAIGHT AT YOUR HEAD as you stand there all happy and deaf, down the front, 8 feet from the amp.