Will HEAVY ARROWS Save Your CROSSBOW LIMBS? (Breaking Limbs, Ep 3)

Here's the third installment in our Breaking Limbs series of videos. It's the one a lot of folks have been waiting for: will using a heavier arrow (or bolt, if you prefer) make your crossbow last longer?
This channel is about my love of the crossbow, hunting, and the outdoors. I hunt exclusively with the crossbow. I love it and I aim to help you love it, too!
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deathbybunjie
Now, I am not sponsored by anyone. I am a free agent. I experiement with different types of gear, but I'll tell you my honest opinion about everything out there. I am not sponsored by Excalibur or Scorpyd...read on:
Bunjie (The O.B.) is a 2010 Excalibur Axiom Crossbow. After a decade of killing deer, hogs, squirrels--you name it!--with the "stock" 20" Easton Firebolt arrows, Bunjie experimented with heavy arrows during 2020 but has since decided to hunt with 20" ProFlight arrows from Easton, for a total arrow weight of just under 400 grains when tipped with a 100 grain Rage Crossbow Hypodermic Broadhead. This keeps ol' Bunjie around 300fps. Is Bunjie retired as of 2021?
Bunjie, Jr., is my daughter Genevieve's crossbow, an Excalibur Micro Suppressor 355. She also shoots ProFlights (16.5" variety) with a 150 grain Rage Trypan Crossbow Broadhead, for a total arrow weight around 415 grains. This crossbow was a much appreciated gift from a Friend of Bunjie, and it changed Death by Bunjie forever by inspiring Genevieve to become a part of it as a second-generation crossbow hunter, and it also convinced me there is a benefit to a newer, faster crossbow (see our 2020 Maryland Doe Hunt).
Bunjie III (or Bunjie '21, Bunjie 3.0) is a 2021 Scorpyd Deathstalker, the result of trying various models and looking at dozens of them online for characteristics I liked. It is, in fact, another gift from a different Friend of Bunjie, which goes to show how important Friends of Bunjie are to this channel and what an impact they can have. Although I really liked what I saw online, I would not have even tried a Scorpyd given that no shops near me carried them. This was sent to me new, free of charge...with the only stipulation being that if I didn't like it, I would send it back to that FOB. After spending some time with it, I am convinced it is, in fact, the right crossbow for me in 2021, and I look forward to showcasing this crossbow in future videos.
So, I am not sponsored by these companies. I am sponsored by Friends of Bunjie! (I'm not asking for gifts whatsoever--please don't feel like you should send me stuff! But I do appreciate the support I've received over the years! I'm just trying to express my appreciation for that.)
Once again, this channel is about my love of the crossbow, hunting, and the outdoors. I hunt exclusively with the crossbow. I love it. Sure, like a lot of kids, I started hunting with a good ol' Model '94 Winchester .30-30 back in the 80's, but drifted away from hunting when I went off to college, law school, and started a family. As my daughter got older, I regained my interest in the outdoors, and I consider myself lucky to hunt on the same property today that I hunted on as a kid. I got the Excalibur Axiom crossbow in 2010 and I haven't looked back. This channel is the result of combining my interest in filming and hunting...
...and music, too! My related channel, Yankee Militia, showcases my music. Some of the music is hunting-related, so check that out, too! The soundtrack for this channel is provided by my band, so the two are intertwined. The albums "Live Free or Kill" and "Zombies Gotta Eat, Too!" are available on Amazon.com and elsewhere. A third album is in the works.
All Hail Bunjie!
--Rich Wilson, Death by Bunjie

[@raymondcava4669]

Great job explaining the leftover Energy of a Crossbow you and your guess talking about this is something you cannot find anywhere on the Internet. Thank you for posting. This is why I watch your channel it’s educational unlike other channels that are purely entertainment or trying to sell you something. Please continue on your quest to improve crossbow shooting and hunting and everything to do with this subject matter.👏

[@apexpredatoroutdoors8308]

I shoot 665 grain arrows which includes a 375 grain single bevel and 30% foc, from a CX1. It's much quieter than with the light arrows the manufacturer liked for marketing (speed) purposes. It also easily penetrates through the shoulders of deer, and deep into the ground beyond. It is truly a game changer. I don't care to shoot any further than about 35 yards, and so blistering speed isn't a concern. What I do want is a proper arrow that will completely penetrate the animal bones and all without regard to presentation., and these arrows easily accomplish that.

[@beorbeorian150]

What set up gets you to 655?

[@apexpredatoroutdoors8308]

@@beorbeorian150 a 300 grain tuffhead with a 75 grain adapter on a 20 inch crossbow arrow.

[@DigtoDef]

What really is shocking to discover is how much more momentum you retain at distance with a heavier arrow. When we did the comparison at 60 yards (from a compound bow) using a labradar, we found that there was more momentum in the 500 grain arrow at impact than there was at LAUNCH with the 360 grain arrow, due to the higher ballistic coefficient of the heavier arrow. Good video!

[@Deathbybunjie]

I agree. It's also because they're slower...slower arrows have less drag than faster arrows so they maintain speed better. Since wt doesn't change and speed doesn't drop off as much, then momentum can be maintained. Plus arrows don't really lose momentum very quickly...and your heavier ones start with so much more so they have more at a distance. Personally, I hear that a lot about "how can you have any energy left at long distances to kill deer?" There are lots of reasons not to shoot really long shots on deer but energy left in arrow generally isn't a problem with crossbows. Any online calculator will tell us that. Eventually I'll put one on deathbybunjie.com that's a good idea!

[@andyjones3934]

The “Rocket Man” knows his stuff!! Caused me to up the weight and higher F.O.C. On my arrows!! 535 grains out of a Micro 355!!! Cuts like a hot knife thru butter!!

[@jasonfowler44]

This series of breaking limbs has so much info and has been so helpful… Thank you Rich for all the time and effort you put into you channel. Your channel does make a difference.😊👍

[@Deathbybunjie]

Thank you for this

[@calebdan6796]

Just now watching this. Hope you get this comment. Dr Ashby of the Ashby foundation found that 650 grains is the the bone breaking threshold. I don’t think it’s a coincidence to see that the efficiency started to diminish when you went to the 735 grain arrow.

[@one-eyedarcher]

Another great video Rich! Thank you.

[@mikeedwards2384]

Very interesting and educational thanks for all the help with trying to figure things out

[@jamesmartin7282]

Thanks for the wrap up because that was my question "How much efficiency do I gain by adding 25 or 50 grains to my broadhead?" Answer: almost none. BTW, I think you can make your arrow as heavy as you want, as long as the crossbow can throw it, there shouldn't be any more energy sent back into the crossbow. If the arrow is so heavy that it doesn't leave the bow, that could be catastrophic.

[@Deathbybunjie]

Yeah that'd be pretty catastrophic I bet!

[@michaeldez102]

New Sub and ive already learned plenty from each Vid ive watched... Just awesome 👊

[@miketoombs627]

Very interesting. I appreciate all your videos. I watch them with great interest as I will be making the switch from a recurve to a crossbow due to age and the high draw weight of my bow.

[@MorrowSind]

Awesome episode. I appreciate the the work you put in on this one. Loved it. Keep up the great content. :)

[@Deathbybunjie]

Thanks!!

[@chucksmith5002]

This is some interesting figure's that you came up with.Enjoyed it Rich

[@leepierce4944]

Keep up the good work my friend

[@boomerrangerron]

Great video, and extremely well researched again Rich! Can't wait for the entire series, but I know what I'm upgrading to next regardless of the outcome, I'm looking for "LIGHT"! Speed is less important for sure. Speed Thrills, and Accuracy Kills!

[@paulheberling2750]

May as well just go to a rifle at that point tho

[@bushinbritishcolumbia6935]

Just found your page last week,,,,subscribed,,,,taking me FOREVER,,,to get caught up on your vids,,,,,but i love them,,,,great job both you and your daughter,,,,,,,and hello from British Columbia Canada

[@Deathbybunjie]

Hello up there!

[@jeffmiller2204]

Good video Rich! You can see at a certain weight the KE starts to drop, but the momentum continues to rise.

[@Deathbybunjie]

Eventually momentum drops too, but at like 1,000 grains. It's because speed drops so far...

[@rhondaandrew1764]

GREAT VIDEO good idea to think about

[@Deathbybunjie]

Thanks agree, food for thought!

[@SeuVagem5.56]

another fantastic video!! please do a grouping comparison between the 3 bungie's! please! a hug from Brazil!

[@stevenhicks815]

Great video

[@mountainview540]

I find this fascinating

[@m.rogers9490]

I KNOW IN MY BALLISTA BAT REVERSE CROSSBOW, I USE CUSTOM 14 IN. STEAM BOLTS WITH 325GR. STAINLESS INSERTS WITH 100GR. MONTE BROADHEADS WITH 4IN. LONG SPIRAL FLETCHING ON THE ARROWS FOR A TOTAL ARROW WEIGHT OF 425GRN. THEY SHOOT LIKE A LASER .

[@mitchcole900]

Another great video with great information for all crossbow shooters. I have a bear constrictor that had a limb break over the winter(last year). Don’t know if it was manufacturing defect or if I bumped it. Bear stood tall and repaired it for me. I moved up to 505 grain arrow weight after the repairs and so far no issues. After watching your videos I may be adding another 50-75 grains. I like to experiment with my bolts just like you Rich. Thanks for all the tips and advice. All Hail

[@Deathbybunjie]

All hail indeed! Run some numbers on the calculator and see what works best for you!

[@JohnTomasella]

I'm increasing my arrow weight this year with Tapps. I've always felt my bow was loud. That, and after losing a deer last season I want to limit the problems.

[@moosejcthunter5686]

Just watching the video now. Day late. Laying with birdie the bird dog. She just had her front leg amputated yesterday due to cancer. "Breaking limbs" is very accurate. Thanks for helping me and bird pass the time.🐕🐦🤕

[@Deathbybunjie]

Awww that's too bad. Hang in there Birdie!

[@TODinWY]

There are a couple of guys on Crossbow Nation whom I think would be valuable assets in the assessment of this nagging problem ... Good Work!

[@SilverTreasures]

You’re the man. Interesting how bunjie III’s numbers bounced around on certain weights. Simply looking at the data, it seemed like you were trying to find what the crossbow “liked” or what the best combination for the crossbow to transfer energy was most efficient. You eventually made the correction as the data shows. I’m curious if the location of the added weight placement determined the best transfer of energy. Or if it was the material of the arrow. Or both. Excellent work. I’m glad I found your channel.

[@Deathbybunjie]

100% a great point, I'm looking for balance...balance between KE and momentum and still retaining some if the speed. Can't say I've decided yet but that's what I'm looking at...I'll be doing more on this topic, thanks for your interest!

[@huntnfishnuts5880]

A lot of the newer bows have longer power strokes to increase kinetic energy and efficiency. It’s a bit of a balancing act to get your weight and speed to get your maximum efficiency, it’s all science and engineering. 👍great video Rich.

[@Deathbybunjie]

Balancing act indeed! Thanks 😊

[@larrygratz7695]

Heck of a good job. As a Trad and compound bow shooter I long knew that heavy arrows give greater penetration through greater KE. I also knew from experience that heavier arrows helped saved limbs. Compounds are rated at 5 grains per pound of draw weight.. Hunters know that 5 is to light for hunting , but I doubt most of us think about the energy wasted which shortens the life of our limbs. Most Trad bow manufacturers recommend 8-10 grains per draw weight to save limbs. I have no interest in crossbows, but I do subscribe and enjoy your videos. This series in your best - for me. I can't be happy, however, that I've proven too lazy to figure this out for myself - and I'm good at math!

[@Deathbybunjie]

Notice there's a column for "momentum" in each of the charts in the video? doesn't change Efficiency but its cool. LOL Fun stuff, thank you for this.

[@timothyparks2531]

Hey Rich, I think one thing that gets overlooked is spine. You have a 280 lbs xbow with a 10.5" powerstroke. If you put a heavy insert and a heavy tip on it, then push 280 lbs to the rear of the arrow, you will test the spine of the arrow. I have destroyed 20" Carbon Express Piledrivers by putting a 200 gr tip on the arrow using my Excal 340TD with 270 lbs draw weight. My bow also got loud and vibrated really bad on the shots that lead to the arrow breakage. Essentially semi-dryfiring my bow. So, if your arrow spine is a little weak, you are putting a lot of stress on the limbs, like dryfiring. So continuous use of a weak spine arrow, may hurt your bow with the more use of that arrow. Your arrow may not break, it may just be weak enough to hurt the bow and not snap the arrow. Remember Bunjie Jr. has a lot more draw weight then the O.B. or Bunjie III. So in comparison, they will not have the same effect from a weak spine as Bunjie Jr. The Piledriver that snapped shooting in my Excal 340TD, shot fine out of my Excal Equinox @ 225 lbs draw and my Xpedition X-380 @ 185 lbs draw weight.

[@timothyparks2531]

And on a side note, stick with a short 16.5" arrow when shooting Excal micros. Because the longer the arrow, the more spine is needed for heavy tips. Having a 31" draw on vertical bows and having to shoot 32" arrows, I know the effects of a weak spine arrow and heavy tips. LOL

[@FDRGREG]

I sighted in my bow last night 20 to 30 yards. I was surprised to see the stock non speed rated reticles in a truglo 4x32. Arrow at 322 or so fps … and this was off a bench rest. The top reticle vs. the 2nd reticle lined up EXACTLY 10 yards! I’m using a laser range finder, bench, and sandbags front and back. Shooting a 18-1 Reinhardt. Drilling the center dot 2” down to a 1” piece if duct tape on top the center dot. Dead center … 2 shots. I expected the reticles to “stage” the shot placement at a further distance. Example 20-33 expected but 20-30 actual. I will keep testing 30-40 yards and out to a 40-50 comparison. I will stop at 50. This is with a 608 projectile going 322 fps. I’m going slow with all my testing. Thanks Rich for the videos. I expected a 322 fps bolt to drop faster than this. It’s very important because my scope is not range finding an not speed rated either. I have a range finder on my side but I need to know where my bolts fall into specific yardages … reticle to reticle. 20 is the given sighted in top reticle but the lower reticles … that’s the key with this set up. Shot to shot is extremely accurate out to 30 too. So anyway. We will see what the next week brings and any deviations. Thanks man!

[@Deathbybunjie]

That's interesting, keep me posted!

[@BackyardBroadheads]

Nice video

[@rayphillips4514]

Excellent video as always! But now we have a new dilemma to discuss: Why is Original Bunjie so durable with the lowest efficiency numbers? OB going on 12 years or more with no issues (plus 5 operator errors) and Bunjie Jr. at a higher efficiency result just went 2 years!

[@Deathbybunjie]

A question for the ages, lol. I think because Bunjie Jr built right to the edge of what it can handle, like a sports car. The OB is more like a family sedan, gonna get 300,000 miles. Maybe?

[@bokkenwielderful]

Just the drama in the intro is worth the price of admission.

[@Deathbybunjie]

😁

[@Kurtdog63]

I think there is merit to shooting a heavy-er arrow verses a heavy arrow. You want penetration for improved lethality, but a super heavy arrow can be so slow that the animal can react significantly before arrow impact, take your shot placement out of the kill zone, and your flight path trajectory turns into rainbows passed 25 yards. The only way to determine your best set up is to experiment, and if something is not working, go heavier, or go lighter. I have shot deer with arrows that weighed anywhere from 380 to 630 grains. Currently experimenting with arrow that has 19 percent FOC, 3 to 1 single bevel, 200 grain broadhead with steel adapter, and total arrow weight, 480 grains. This is not considered a heavy arrow, but it IS 100 grains heavy-ER than the factory minimum recommendation, and it may be heavy-ENOUGH. My goal is to create a balance between speed, trajectory, and penetration that works for my hunting set ups. Heavy-er arrows can also reduce sound and bow vibration.

[@Deathbybunjie]

100% agree...add some weight but HEAVY? Not for me haha. I want to stay close to 400fps, personally.

[@justinsidervag8008]

Yet , old style Bunjie has stood the test of time . There's a saying ............ Beware the old man in a game where men die young.

[@Deathbybunjie]

Indeed!

[@ryand8024]

Sup Rich!!!

[@kurtfirestone2761]

Would like to see a video about recurve crossbow longevity versus compound crossbow longevity

[@Deathbybunjie]

Great question! On one hand, Bunjie 12 seasons but then again Bunjie Jr only a fee. We'll see how Bunjie III does! I think it's all over the place. Some compounds last forever, some not. Same with recurves BUT generally compounds are more efficient so probably last longer overall. Then again, they need more maintenance most likely! A great topic!

[@raymondcava4669]

Rich , An observation that I just made. A reverse Lim compound Crossbow seems to have the most amount of efficiency probably due to the extra transfer of a longer draw length. The longer that the force exerted on the string and arrow the more efficient the crossbow seems to be. I would think these reverse Lim compound crossbow will be very popular for sometime. Because they appear to be more efficient with dispensing of energy. This means less breakage overall. Sort of like 4 x 4. Can go anywhere anytime and more reliable. That was a parent with your testing of Bungie, Bungie Junior, and Bungie the third. I’m sure you’ll be covering that in the next videos.

[@Deathbybunjie]

Good eye, I agree and it's something I talked about with Darren Cummings. That longer power stroke allows more time for xbow to impart energy on the arrow!

[@boone3770]

Interesting. I have an Assassin with the same scope. would like to know if the say 30-40 yrd pins in scope are still accurate with a much heavier bolt if you have tested. Thanks Boone.

[@Deathbybunjie]

Not likely. You'll see elevation drop as you add weight, due to decrease in speed. There are some online calculators that help measure the drop (estimate). Hope that helps!

[@robertwong2412]

The biggest problem with crossbows is they shoot much lighter bolts/arrows compared to compound/recurve bows, yet they have much higher draw weights than bows. No wonder the limbs don't last as long as regular bow limbs.

[@Deathbybunjie]

Some have a lot more problems than others, though, that's for sure.

[@beorbeorian150]

There may be a minimum threshold. And just a small efficiency gain can get the bow into the safe threshold. Just a theory. Not sure the material has a threshold similar to steal. Aluminum for instance has a zero threshold

[@JoeIrrera]

I've been out of the game and your videos for about two years now. I recently noticed a splinter on my Xcal 360 Assassin. First thing that comes to mind is to come see your videos. This video was exactly what I looking for. Thank you for keeping up with everything and I absolutely appreciate all the work and time you spent making these calculations. I still use Xcal Quill arrows with Eluminok but I changed my heads to 150 vs. the original 100gr. So my original 370 grains (Total weight) is now 416. My hope is to keep the longevity of my bow and avoid any more splintering in the future. ( yes I am contacting Xcal for replacements) Do you think adding more weight with the heads is a good Idea or should I go with an actual heavier arrow? Is the overall weight what counts or the arrow itself? Thanks again for all your Dedication and time put into hunting with crossbows!

[@Deathbybunjie]

I'm usually talking total arrow weight, the total amount that the crossbow has to push. I think 416 is a great place to start. You can always go a little bit heavier if you want to. You probably don't need to go to 600 grains or anything like that haha. Genevieve is shooting around 500. Hope that helps and good luck!

[@gramps5157]

I have a question for those out there. So many of the Archery shops have closed down in my area over the last 10 years. I had to drive 25 miles from my home to the "Rack Shack" to get a new bow string and cables for a Ten Point Blazer HP Crossbow. I was floored when the total came to $184.00. I feel like I was ripped off.

[@Deathbybunjie]

Well, it's a market, I guess, can you call elsewhere and see if they have other options? And what the comparable price would be?

[@neilboggess9190]

I think you have said in other videos that you shoot 16 inch bolts have you tried using 20 inch bolts and then check your numbers. I was just wondering. Thanks Neil from West Virginia

[@Deathbybunjie]

We only shoot the 16 in the micro crossbow, I use 20 when the crossbow calls for 20. The weight is the key to accurate numbers though.

[@neilboggess9190]

@@Deathbybunjie thanks

[@musthavefaith8142]

After watching this video Im now launching a 475grn bolt out of my Excalibur micro 340td...

[@Deathbybunjie]

That's a good balance of speed and power, and adds some efficiency, too. Win win. I think our current arrows for Bunjie, Jr. are about that same weight!

[@jeffboutilier5075]

I'm curious what you think about fluctuations in temperature causing limb problems? I crossbow hunt in Eastern Canada and our temperature is from one extreme to the other. My crossbow stays either in the shed or trunk of the car for the entire season, so far I haven't had any issues.

[@Deathbybunjie]

That's a thing for sure! Will discuss in next video. You're one step ahead of me lol

[@chrisruzsa2798]

Both extremes aren’t good on limbs but cold is better than too hot if its in a confined space removing of pads and string will keep it so you don’t warp a limb.

[@joshuadavis2470]

I was hoping there was a correlation between efficiency and longevity. But it doesn't look like there is, since OG is the least efficient but has long limb life. I'm leaning toward a manufacturing defect on Bunjie Jr.

[@Deathbybunjie]

The OB is the Ford 8N of crossbows, haha, will last a long time but it doesn't have all the bells and whistles. I do think of MODERN crossbows, efficiency is tied to longevity. Bunjie Jr's limb defect is made worse by leftover energy if that's what it was. Time will tell!

[@pauloehmen1665]

👍

[@shawnmccallion5436]

Great video! Who makes a weight collar that I can add weight to my Proflight arrow. Where can I buy them?

[@Deathbybunjie]

You can buy inserts that screw in and add weight but it's best to glue on new inserts IMO... I'll do a video on it but did another one building Genevieve's arrows a few months ago

[@johnv7223]

Good question because I got a bunch of 100 grain hypodermic Trypans and I don’t want to buy 150 grains now or have to rip out the collars already in the arrows. I have been using what the manufacturer recommends for my TD 340.

[@andrzejtaramina2709]

For the sake of argument, if you have a 40% efficient xbow and get that to 44% with heavier arrows, that is a 10% improvement in efficiency. A non-trivial improvement over the life of a xbow. ;-)

[@Deathbybunjie]

I think every little bit helps!

[@bokkenwielderful]

I did a similar test with my Axiom. Only I went from the light 350 grain to a ridiculous 3200 grains (yes that thousand with a "sand"). With some inference from the graph and a little math I was able to guess what the speed should be once the weight got that high.

[@paulheberling2750]

How did you make a bolt that weighed 3,200 gr?!

[@bokkenwielderful]

@@paulheberling2750 i put a brass cane head on the end. It is all in the video " what do heavy bolts do in a recurve"

[@paulheberling2750]

@@bokkenwielderful cool! Will check it out

[@paulheberling2750]

@@bokkenwielderful also, do you think you could make a heavier compound bow arrow?

[@bokkenwielderful]

I could give it a try, are you thinking a similar experiment where I climb up weights and graph out the results? @@paulheberling2750

[@CatfishCody]

I went from shooting a 495 gr. arrow to a 400 gr. arrow out of my Sub-1 XR. It isn't very loud and it killed every deer I hit last season

[@Deathbybunjie]

that's a good xbow really like those

[@FDRGREG]

It would be good to know how much trajectory loss and arrow drop occurs with an increase in arrow weight. Example factory bolt at 400 drops 8” 20 to 30. Vs a 600 bolt drops 12” 20 to 30.

[@Deathbybunjie]

We have some neat calculators coming your way that will shed some light on this!

[@oldgrumpyhunter]

You must be talking about the Death By Bunjie and Old Grumpy Hunter joint project kzbin.info/www/bejne/mmiunpaIot2FpaM

[@jkhippie5929]

I wonder what the Excalibur 440 bulldog would do with heavy arrows. I think there would be less to gain with the ravin 500 on heavy arrows.

[@jkhippie5929]

Great video

[@Deathbybunjie]

I ran the Ravin R500 through the calculator and it was in the 50%'s for efficiency...pretty neat. I think most Ravins are in that mix. But they still gain a little efficiency with a heavier arrow, too.

[@frankbrowning328]

1st - Unintentional dry fire is a leading cause of limb failure. This actually happens quite often and goes unnoticed by the shooter due to the nock not being in full contact with the strig at the point of firing. I blame this on both the shooter and manufacturer as at this point every crossbow should be designed to operate with a captured noc. Look to Scorpyd who has been using captured nocs for more than a decade and rarely suffers broken limbs. A captured noc will slightly reduce velocity over a 1/2 moon noc and as such the manufacturer in an effort to publish the highest possible speed will use a 1/2 moon over a far superior captured noc. 2nd - is light arrows- Again manufacturers was to publish the highest velocity possible so they use arrows that push the limit of speed vs longevity of the limbs. Adding just 50 -100 grains will not reduce the velocity enough to matter at 35 yards. It will however substantially quiet the bow and reduce fatigue on the limbs. 3rd - is leaving the crossbow cocked longer than the manufacturer recommends. If the factory states it can be cocked for 8hrs that's when you must de-cock or fire the crossbow and then recock. Speed is great but a deer can duck a substantial distance from the time the trigger is pulled to the time the arrow arrives at the deer with even the fastest crossbows at 40-50 yds. Even though the high-quality faster crossbows can very easily hit the vitals of a deer each and every time at 100 yds it is not ethical to shoot this far due to the ability of the deer to duck the arrow of even the fastest bow to the point of being outside the vital area at 70+ yards. Not only do we have the ability of the deer to duck arrows we also have a tremendous amount of wind deflection when ranges extend beyond 50 yards. For the average hunter trying to play the wind with an arrow and a 5-30mph wind at ranges of 10-60 yards is just not ethical. Until we get crossbow speeds of 1000 fps + we aren't going to be able to ethically shoot deer at 70+ yards. These are still arrows and not bullets so they must be treated as such.

[@Deathbybunjie]

Some great points but I note a few disagreements: Scorpyd's extremely efficient. Watch my last video. That's key in my book. Good point on the arrow weight though--you don't need to add a ton but add SOME. I agree. But as to speed--my shots on deer this year at around 400 fps tell me 400 is WAAAAAYYYYYY better than 300. It's through the deer before they can react even at 30 yards. 400 does 30 yards better than 300 does, all day long, LOL. Good stuff, thanks for watching and thanks for the comments. I appreciate the conversation!

[@frankbrowning328]

@@Deathbybunjie Yes, the reverse draw creates a longer stroke which is much more efficient at energy transfer than a traditional draw. More energy achieved on a lower poundage limb hence more velocity. Agreed, a little extra weight applied properly makes for a far better recipe for kinetic energy, reduction of vibration, and reduction in noise. When I went from 360 fps to 427 fps (with the same weight arrow) I noticed a big difference in drop, energy transfer and penetration in my targets. I switched to heavier constructed arrows and heavier broadheads and now am running 405-410fps. However, if you watch some of the videos available showing the speed at which a deer is able to duck at 40 yards with a 400 fps arrow, you'll be very surprised. Some deer due to their alertness/frame of mind at the shot will react extremely fast while others may just stand there. The deer that react quickly will duck 3'' or more at 40 yards. These items combined with a hunter who is off his/her mark slightly (on a shot that is not textbook broadside) can cause an arrow to miss the intended area of the vitals or worse the vitals all together. We are both ethical hunters who care enough to pass on questionable shots. The average hunter doesn't practice nearly as much as we do, has far less knowledge regarding arrow drop, wind deflection, range estimation and normally doesn't shoot as accurately. However, when they get a faster crossbow, many believe they can now shoot it as they would a rifle and this is a recipe for wounded deer. I enjoy your topics. Keep the great discussions coming

[@garyadams2061]

great video rich. i wonder if any of your viewers know what happened to barnett . wont answer their phone number. thanks again

[@Deathbybunjie]

You're not the first person to complain...I'm betting covid

[@FDRGREG]

Interesting … It sounds like there is a sweet spot for each crossbow based on arrow weight. With my new crossbow rated at 415 fps I’m not sure what weight arrow they specified the bow at. But I’m set up now with 608 grain arrows. This is to increase penetration but more importantly to try and protect the bow. I’m confident that that amount of heavy arrow weight makes the light arrow argument for limbs breaking a minimal at best argument. So if it does break ( again a new bow) it’s either quality of product or shooter error. Am I wrong? I haven’t even dialed it in good yet for sighting in but have shot it offhand at 10 or so shots. No issues so far. I’m getting about 15-16% FOC too. I think I have eliminated “ too light” as a factor now anyway. So we will see by end of August if my bow is still in good shape and ready for Georgia/Illinois this year. Video was VERY enlightening in terms of arrow weight and saving limbs. Thanks man!

[@Deathbybunjie]

Good luck! What crossbow you got?

[@FDRGREG]

@@Deathbybunjie I just got my first crossbow a Rocky Mountain RM415. Have only shot it about 10 times waiting on a new 18-1 target my old one is fairly shot up about 10 years old and I’m sinking the shafts all the way to the fletchings with it. But anyway so far so good with it and I like it a lot so far. Time will tell if it’s reliable and accurate.

[@joetataryn2475]

What is the most efficient crossbow?

[@Deathbybunjie]

I haven't run all of them through the calculator of course but I think Scorpyds near the top, Ten Point too. Ravin had some high 50s and one in the 60s I think based on manufacturer specs. I think Bunjie is the least efficient 😄

[@dr.froghopper6711]

Doesn’t limb length also affect the chances of residual energy and breaking limbs?

[@Deathbybunjie]

I suppose so but nobody's building big long limbs any more so it's not really an option.

[@dr.froghopper6711]

@@Deathbybunjie it was only a theoretical notion. I was just thinking that longer limb length spreads the energy across a larger surface and that might be why Bungie I was lasting so much longer. I’m enjoying your content man! My wife and I have just purchased crossbows because guns were just getting too political. I don’t want drama. I want to shoot. Field points are much cheaper than fully loaded ammunition and I can literally shoot off my front porch without the neighbors getting their undies in a bunch, lol!

[@locksbog4270]

👍😃✌️🇺🇸

[@stevecallaway8457]

How do know there is a problem with your crossbow limb

[@Deathbybunjie]

a good question. if you SEE something awry, like a splinter or a crack, have it looked at. If your crossbow shoots off even though you dialed it in perfect, and shots keep wandering, that's a sign, perhaps. If your brace height start to look off--farther on one side than the other...another sign. OR it'll be obvious--it's a big split in the limb. Keep an eye out but don't worry too much--keep shooting and have fun. Good luck!

[@JayhooOutdoors]

I have found arrow/bolt weights wired my 70lbs bow must have 5grains per pound making 350 grain minimum arrow weight. My 280lbs Excalibur crossbow only needs a minimum of 350 grains? Something else to look into on heavier arrow weights is down range speed a light bolt shoot at 360fps at 40 years will drop about 30fps a heavier arrow shoot at 300fps will only lose 10 to 15fps So the energy at impact with a heavier arrow is even a greater gap at impact then at launch 🚀 in comparison to the lighter arrow

[@JayhooOutdoors]

I’m glad you made this video I don’t shoot my crossbow much but have not really worried about penetration. But my 55lbs recurve bow I do as it’s only rated for maybe 170 so I built up 618 grain arrows for it and it’s vary slow now for sure but hits like a ton of bricks 😁 Really got to work on getting more out of the crossbow

[@Deathbybunjie]

Based on the numbers you provide, I am guessing that your compound bow only has around 20 something foot pounds of kinetic energy at launch, and .365 slugs of momentum. With that crossbow, if you increase the weight and lose 30 ft per second, I estimate that you probably have around 108 ft lb of kinetic energy and .6 slugs of momentum. But keep in mind, even with the stock arrow, it's probably around 100 foot pounds of kinetic energy and 0.55 slugs of momentum. Just for comparison's sake, any modern crossbow shooting a 400 grain Arrow at 400 ft per second has 142 foot pounds of kinetic energy and 0.7 slugs of momentum at launch. Pretty much enough energy to kill anything. With modern crossbows, penetration really is not a consideration! Pretty neat, huh?

[@robertsophiea05]

I would suggest the true reason the limbs brake is cross bows are not built to be regularly shot.

[@Deathbybunjie]

I don't disagree...but watch next week, some surprises maybe

[@m.rogers9490]

A 425FPS CROSS SHOOTING A HEAVIER BOLT THAN YOU GENERALLY ABSORBED THE ENERGY MORE THAN A LIGHTER ARROW . I SHOOT A 420FPS CROSSBOW BUT MY ARROWS ONLY GO ABOUT 370FPS. BECAUSE OF THE HEAVY INSERTS AND THE BROADHEADS .

[@leogarcia-kp3mp]

I don't think that heavier arrows help , all of my crossbows limbs have gave out when cocked and seating next to me in my blind.

[@Deathbybunjie]

Yikes!

[@gslam8571]

Jeez rich you seem like a really nice guy /kinda guy id like to háve a beer with and talk hunting but howcome you never offer your buddy a chair ??

[@Deathbybunjie]

Bwahahaha ol' Fred's one of those guys who likes to stand

[@chrisruzsa2798]

Indeed a heavier bolt isn’t the solution but its a great bandaid. I do disagree though highly with the comment that heavier wont make a limb last longer it will. Lets look at Ravin. They use very light arrows with very high poundage draw. They are a hunting crossbow only. What does this mean? They average 5 shots a year 2 for sighting in 3 for hunting give or take. So if you divide 100 by 5 you get 25 the 25 is the years of life they figure with their hunting crossbow. That seems like a lot but thats 5 shots a year and those that own this crossbow know not to over use their crossbow. Looking at crossbows that are target and hunting have always followed a basic math. One of the main reasons excalibur was so great was that with their wide limbs and 400gr arrow/bolts is 2x the draw weight with a 200lb draw. When you go to a 350 gr out of a 300 lb draw well you need a 600gr arrow. While its not the solution its a great bandaid. And yes there is a too much bolt weight. Going too heavy isnt good but going too light is a equal problem. Going 2x to 2.5x your draw weight is perfect.

[@Deathbybunjie]

Who said heavier won't make it last longer? We said several times in the video that it will...

[@chrisruzsa2798]

@@Deathbybunjie i may have to watch it again. Lol

[@chrisruzsa2798]

@@Deathbybunjie my mistake Rich lol i was distracted watching it the first time and made an error lol. As always great videos. So whats the next episode going to be and when is the next live?

[@donwilson350]

You know Rick I really don't think shooting a heavy Arrow will save your crossbow limbs it just depends on the make and the model of the crossbow Matthews or Mission crossbows you can call them shoot like a 375 grain arrow and with 250 lb Limbs and you never hear of them really ever having a limb problem I think it's everything to do with how the crossbow is made

[@Deathbybunjie]

I agree, pretty much, choice of crossbow has more to do with it than arrow weight mist likely

[@oldgrumpyhunter]

First again

[@boomerrangerron]

I think Rich should have interviewed the Old Grumpy Hunter, for his perspective!

[@frankwigley1596]

Are 325 grain arrows worth using or not?

[@Deathbybunjie]

I say go 400 or more personally, for most modern crossbows

[@frankwigley1596]

@@Deathbybunjie Thank You, I just bought my first crossbow. It's a Center point Patriot 425. I've probably watched at least 25 of your videos trying to learn about crossbows.