Will Ionna Put Gas Stations Out of Business?

[@newscoulomb3705]

People forget that, a single gas station pump costs about $25,000 to install, so the difference between installing a DCFC and a gas station pump isn't as huge as some people pretend it is.

[@Aslash304]

Well put.

[@capnkirk5528]

THIS. 10 Slow chargers = 1 gas pump. 4 slow chargers plus a "buffer battery" plus solar = 1 gas pump. 4 slow chargers will generate MORE revenue than a single gas pump (station operator makes two-fifths of three quarters of fuck all on gas).

[@pa60pilot]

Add a half million dollars or more to put a tank farm underground - from a former gas station owner.

[@kennethpereyda5707]

so why did Biden only get 7 built at a cost of 8 billion ?

[@andreasu.3546]

@@capnkirk5528 What's the point of installing an AC slow charger anywhere that's not a destination? Is anyone expecting people to hang around for 3 hours at a gas station or convenience store?

[@sunrisejak2709]

A NEMA 14/50 outlet such as those for a residential dryer is sufficient for at home EV charging. The connector is about 50 bucks. Installation also inexpensive. Charging overnight at home through a 14/50 outlet is easily sufficient to replace the energy that was used the previous day.

[@Aslash304]

Correct. For homeowners with off street parking. Kind of insulting for everyone else.

[@RealElectech]

I installed three level two chargers for under $1K each before utility rebates (2x $1000). In CT. So for three across two locations - about $1250 out of pocket total.

[@Aslash304]

Thanks for the feedback. How many trenches? Service upgrades? Unattached buildings? I was going for a worst case scenario price. As in, $2k to $3k can get you home charging no matter what your situation.

[@Miata822]

I can't understand any mid-tier of better motel in the hinterland that doesn't offer free 10A-ish 240V Level 2 charging and post it on plugshare. Would cost

[@RealElectech]

@Aslash304 none of those, obviously if you need to upgrade your entire electrical panel or need extended wiring runs the cost is going to be greater. For me they were only about 20 to 25 ft of wiring per charger. I'm just saying for most people looking to install a charger at home, I would not expect to pay multiple thousands of dollars barring any of the extenuating circumstances like you mentioned. Especially with many areas having rebates available. I believe you can also get a 30% federal tax credit on the cost as well.

[@dailyrider2975]

Remember the chargers you have at home are basically just giant circuit breakers for protection. They don't convert power to DC, the CAR does that with it's internal systems. So fast chargers at stations are DC to DC allowing faster charging and less heat build up. Also why Station chargers are a giant leap in cost. Let's not forget Gasoline stations need to be built to spec for leakage control, giant gas tanks, all sorts of construction costs, permits and inspections. But it's all done on the QT and you probably never heard a word about what it costs or takes to build a gasoline station or issues that come from them.

[@Aslash304]

Great feedback. I agree. Gas stations are complex to install.

[@bobman717]

If the tanks are left empty they get ruined and must be fully replaced. This is why empty gas stations are empty for years, it's cheaper to build a new one vs digging up and replacing the tanks

[@tedmoss]

@@bobman717 Except in Phoenix, AZ.

[@EinKerl3554]

Actually it is when underground tanks will be never be used again, i.e. the gas station is being replaced by something else that they cannot be abandoned and left empty. They must either be removed or much more often be decommissioned in place by filling them with inert material, sand or cement basically any inert solid. If the property will still be used as a fuel station the tanks can sit empty without harm.

[@EinKerl3554]

Actually building a gas station is very streamlined these days. The tanks fittings and lines are all standardized and approved ar the manufacturer. The installation testing and approval move with relative ease. Building a comparable electric station would not be significantly faster, perhaps longer if they have to wait for the capacity of the utility connection to be increased. And regardless of type there will always be a stack of permits.

[@stephkent2736]

I think you're missing a big player when it comes to L2 charging: anyone who has 10% of their audience drive from 100+ miles away and stay for 4-6 hours minimum. I would pay 25-50% over electric rate to charge at a stadium, concert hall, hotel, amusement park, etc. The chains and locations that figure that out will be the ones to really come ahead long term and make money off something that should be fairly passive income.

[@Aslash304]

Absolutely 💯. I couldn’t agree more.

[@brodriguez11000]

Revitalize malls.

[@N20Joe]

Especially if it's in a colder climate.

[@stephkent2736]

@ it’s far more about use case and winterization in a lot of places. Here in NE OH, you have Guardians parking, Cedar Point, Put in Bay, downtown partying, etc that are far more “summer” uses that need to be properly mothballed for the winter to keep ice and snow out of the connectors and keep them operational.

[@waltersavonian7551]

i've been driving electric for 5 years now. Why doesn't every public parking lot have at least a couple free level 2 chargers. Electricity in BC Canada is $0.10 per KWH, if i buy one coffee at the mall, one burger at the park, one pop at the ball game the electricity is paid for, everything else I buy is a win for local merchants, it's time to get this done. Anyone who is charging money for level 2 charging, let alone at some of the absurd rates I have seen (up to 7x the normal rate), needs to pull their heads out of their asses. I will not patronize them based on principle alone!

[@Aslash304]

Very well put. Agree 100%

[@brodriguez11000]

Don't you guys have a lot of hydropower?

[@Aslash304]

@@brodriguez11000 the “electric bill” in Canada is literally called the “hydro bill”

[@waltersavonian7551]

@@brodriguez11000 BCHydro is 99% water generated or Hydro power.

[@newscoulomb3705]

17:36 This list excludes what is, in my opinion, the actual best way, which is a turn-key solution. There are a number of charging providers who offer free installation of expensive charging hardware at a host location, and the only caveat is, the business doesn't own the charging hardware. That is the model offered by Electrify America, EVgo, Tesla, and a number of smaller charging providers. It provides a great balance between buying the hardware (e.g., ChargePoint or EVgo eXtend) and signing away or selling property rights (e.g., IONNA).

[@Aslash304]

Great point. I hope more places take advantage of this.

[@brodriguez11000]

Sounds like what some do with solar panels. Plus, in conjunction with someone doing renewables, locations could be much greater because they're both placed out of the way but adjacent.

[@tlister67]

Cumberland Farms in New England uses decent tasting relatively cheap coffee as a loss leader. I am not aware of them offering charging but I charge 99% at home so I might have missed. Coffee and associated bake goods seems like a draw to me, Dunkin’?

[@Aslash304]

Bingo. Love it

[@BryanA3115]

Good analysis of the charging infrastructure out there. The one point I do disagree on, though, is the 4 seat with decent trunk space comment. Although I do think there is a huge market for that, many still want their bigger/nicer vehicle with at least 5 seats. Especially those with families or just like having extra space. I think the demand is there, it's just too expensive to obtain. I would absolutely love to get an R1S but due to price, the R2 will be the way I go.

[@Aslash304]

The R2’s of the world are definitely a necessity for families. I drive a midsize SUV myself. Currently there are no compact options, but I think there’s a big demographic waiting for affordable EVs. Thanks so much for your feedback

[@leftcoaster67]

My question why does DC fast chargers break down so often? And why are Superchargers more reliable?

[@Aslash304]

Cheap. Companies are cheap. They use cheap hardware with cheap components and cheap software. They don’t employ enough technicians to keep them maintained, and could care less how reliable they are. Tesla wanted them to work. So they do.

[@mojaal]

In some heavily regulated places, chargers can't sell electricity. They need to charge by time. Which makes slow chargers and cars irrelevant.

[@Aslash304]

Good points.

[@newscoulomb3705]

I definitely think you're being a bit too pessimistic. Where I live in California, I get to experience both halves: A) What's upcoming for the rest of the nation based on some of the largest, most well-funded charging build outs. B) Rural areas that are completely underserved and desolate. We have a section of California the size of West Virginia with two 8-stall Superchargers... End of list. So I do find it interesting when people in the rest of the country ask about when gas stations will start installing infrastructure. I just did a 400+ mile trip through the rural section of Northern California where 3 out of 6 of my charging stops were at gas stations less than a block off the freeway. In fact, I could drive a 200-mile EV the full 800-mile length of the state back and forth several times using only gas station locations (and never using the same charging site twice). So based on the idea that that is what the rest of the country can start to expect, I think we'll be just fine. Also, I'd suggest looking up Electric Era. I've done a few videos on them so far, and they seem to primarily be targeting gas stations. They are priced competitively, and -- hold your beer -- they are keenly focused on reliability. Most of their sites are claiming 99.xx% charger uptimes.

[@anthonyc8499]

I made a separate comment, but I think the price sensitivity is overrated since people will go to where the service is reliable and driver amenities are offered. Also, travelers don't have time to sit around at slow chargers to save $5. They want to charge fast (and reliably!), use the bathroom, get a can of pop, and get back on the road.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@anthonyc8499 Yes, I definitely agree that the price sensitivity is overstated. People will complain, no doubt, but they'll finish charging. Something about stepping over dollars to pick up dimes. I do get the point of competition and commodity pricing, but I think we also need to differentiate between chargers that are being subsidized and those that are not. Much of the country is still only accustomed to the highly subsidized Electrify America and Tesla chargers that are often 30% cheaper than the market rate. I can say that, based on my experience in California, most of the charging providers are charging between 50 and 60 cents per kWh as a standard. That even includes Tesla, which is using pricing as a stick to discourage drivers from using high-traffic sites. I would also note that he seems to have ignored that several automakers are (and have) already been funding their own charging. IONNA is just a way of being stronger with numbers. GM, Mercedes, and (to a lesser extent) Ford have all been funding their own, branded charging networks. While there is some overlap with NEVI funding, most of those chargers were primarily funded by the automakers.

[@anthonyc8499]

@@newscoulomb3705 people got lulled by EA into thinking DCFC was cheaper than it really was. It’s only a recent development that EA started caring about being self-sufficient. Remember how EA used to give away charging for free for days, if not weeks at a time?

[@Aslash304]

Great feedback. I live in a state with no subsidies. We won’t use our NEVI funding, the Dieselgate money we got is sitting in an account somewhere. There’s no major charging brands except Tesla. And all the new brands are skipping us, too. No Ionna. There’s no level 2 charging to speak of either. Just a few state parks. And I live less than 150 miles from Columbus, less than 200 miles to Baltimore, less than 250 from Winston-Salem, and it’s an hour to Pittsburgh. Yet, no charging. If Gas stations don’t bail us out, we won’t be getting any charging. And, as far as piece shopping, I always do it, and I always will. $0.50/kWh is too much, and I’ll only pay it if I can’t avoid it. People that can’t charge at home will never switch if the prices don’t come down. Why switch? Gas costs the same amount.

[@anthonyc8499]

@ why WV is such a desert, i do not know. Makes me wonder if there’s institutional resistance at the regulatory and utility level. As for $0.50/kWh being too much, I can’t argue with that for the same reason I cannot argue with someone who says that their rotary phone is already paid for so they’ll never pay for a cell phone. It doesn’t make sense to me but that’s fine too.

[@EvilModPixie]

Multiple gas stations are adding chargers in Kansas and will make travel great here soon (FlyingJ, Casey's, 24/7, and I think even a Love's). I can't wait, it will make it so nice. It is decently good now with my Mach-e Extended range but it will be excellent soon.

[@Aslash304]

I’m very happy to hear this!

[@brianmartin3263]

For 6 years we have charge our EV 85% of the time at home with a regular wall outlet. Saved $$$$$👍😊

[@Aslash304]

This is a very convenient solution. It is also how I charge. However, there are tens of millions of people who want to switch to EV, but don’t have charging where they live because they park on the street, or rent.

[@ALRinaldi]

Interesting that the Dairy founded/owned gas stations (Wawa, Sheetz, Royal Farms) and travel centers (Buc-ee’s, Pilot) are the ones at the head of the gas station charging locations. Are CircleK and BP the only traditional gas stations trying to build out EV charging? And honestly my gut says K is really the only one of those two actually trying.

[@Aslash304]

I hope more companies realize they are missing out on foot traffic and alienating customers.

[@dscarty]

Electrify America chose early available charger producing company. It was a bad choice because these early production chargers were unreliable. Those chargers are being replaced, slowly.

[@Aslash304]

Agree. It was a bad look. The newer stalls are better.

[@shockingguy]

A decade ago I drove a Kia soul EV from the East Coast back to Cleveland, it was painful it took 24 hours, finding charging was abysmal, in rural Pennsylvania I was driving in the middle of the night with no lights or anything to save power and finally made it to a pilot or a loves truckstop, they said I could plug into the 110 V outlet on the other building, I got about an hour of charging before some guy was banging on the car screaming at me I don’t sell electricity I sell diesel fuel screaming his mind at me, he was the manager he had just come to work, we left, fucking idiots, sell everything and people will come to you, we called Corporate they said he needs a talking to ha ha ha ha you should always help a motorist in need and this was A simple thing to help

[@Aslash304]

@@shockingguy I appreciate you sharing your experience! I think they should have helped you, too.

[@Nicholas-f5]

Lovely

[@TheJ1s]

I agree that why aren't many automakers don't really compete with my opinion with the Tesla Model 3. I don't care with anybody says I want more EV sedans that under $39k. They could probably reduce the weight better than compact SUVs/crossovers and increase range, if they tried.

[@Aslash304]

Great feedback, thanks for sharing!

[@brodriguez11000]

@@Aslash304 Should be interesting to see what the Chinese are doing to address the charger situation. They have a stake in its success.

[@ARCWuLF]

Where I live (rural Pennsylvania), ANY charging of any capacity would be most welcome. Unfortunately, the prevalent backwards conservative mindset and the ubiquity of the oldest petroleum business in the world will prevent that from happening.

[@Aslash304]

The nail has been struck on the head

[@Nicholas-f5]

Evil Republicans

[@mikeintampa250]

I held my bladder to watch this entire video. Love it!!

[@Aslash304]

Thanks so much for watching!

[@Toggoss]

Great content as usual !! Thank you for providing this information!!

[@Aslash304]

Thanks for watching!

[@scottdvorak5606]

I think I agree with you on the Ionna thing. (Though... I'm rooting from them.) As you pointed out, the current CCS options are not very reliable and not super convenient. As a former Tesla owner, and new owner of a CCS EV, I'm rooting for anyone who brings a consistently reliable, reasonably pleasant and convenient charging experience to market. But I did get a bit concerned about the pricing when I heard about all the additional bespoke amenities they were planning to offer. When I made my last long distance trip in my Tesla, I stopped twice at Sheetz. This was ideal. I was able to use a clean restroom, and grab a decent burger to eat. By the time I came back out to the car, it was done charging. THIS is the way to do it people! Lastly, the price to charge wasn't bad either. Can Ionna duplicate this experience? We'll see. I think they'll be able to do everything but the reasonable price to charge. That would be a bummer if that turns out to be the case.

[@Aslash304]

Couldn’t have said it better myself. The Sheetz MTO plus charging is the right way to do it.

[@TimCristy]

Me and my friends often go from Ohio to the Elkins area for recreating and the one with a Rivian has to get a ride because that 50/33 route in WV is a real charging desert. It would be nice if one of the Ionna/Sheetz locations went in at Bridgeport.

[@Aslash304]

Yep. I say east pointe plaza (where route 50 crosses I-79) would be ideal.

[@cyclicmusings2661]

When it comes to charging at home, I paid around $200, but in my specific case I was pretty lucky. My Tesla Model 3 came with a "mobile connector" for free and I was incredibly lucky that my garage just so happened to have a Nema 6-50 outlet. So all I had to do was buy a 6-50 adapter and switch out the standard adapter the connector came with. Then I moved a couple of years later and my next house did not have a 6-50, 14-50, or any other higher powered receptacles in the garage besides the dryer outlet. But the house had the subpanel in the garage. I have a friend that is licensed electrician and I got him to install a 6-50 receptacle under the subpanel, which luckily had a good deal of spares. So all I needed was a 2-gang old work electrical box, the 6-50 receptacle, a 50A breaker, the outlet cover plate, and about 2ft of 6 AWG wire, and an hour of my friend's time, I think in total it cost me about $200. The neutral was also capped off in case I ever wanted to convert the receptacle to a 14-50 in the future.

[@Aslash304]

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. Most EV installations are low cost. But throw in a detached building with a couple dozen feet of trenching and conduit, along with someone who doesn’t have an electrician friend, and it’s $3k easy. I’m glad you had an easy to convert setup.

[@HaiRune]

Trump after a short conversation with Elon: Ionna will have a 50% tariff to operate in the US

[@Aslash304]

Nothing is off the table.

[@G11713]

Gas stations are designed for 7min stays. restaurants, malls, offices, and parking lots are more suitable it seems.

[@Aslash304]

100% agree

[@junehanzawa5165]

Gas stations owned by big oil have no interest in chargers other than for greenwashing purposes. And gas stations have been plummeting since the mid 1990's, accelerated all the more in the last 10 years. Just look at Norway where they barely exist anymore, and those that do have way more chargers than pumps, which usually are down to only 2. The convinience store chains are the ones that are, and will, do it right in this model of yours.

[@Aslash304]

Great points. I wish smaller players in the gasoline industry would take a long look and see the writing on the wall. Thanks for your feedback!

[@leftcoaster67]

You would think future proofing your business, and broadening your product base to make money would be a good idea.

[@greg925911]

KwikTrips are installing chargers now

[@Aslash304]

Great to hear! Thanks for sharing

[@Nicholas-f5]

And Quick trips ​@@Aslash304

[@JeffButera]

We have several gas stations that have installed EV chargers. Nobody seems to use them whenever I drive by...

[@Neojhun]

Because in town Gas Stations are the wrong location for DC Fast chargers. Obviously entirely not viable for Level 2 Slow chargers. The use case is entirely different and need to be near amenities where people stay for about 15 to 30 minutes and way more stalls. It also doesn't require a dedicated store and facility just for that single purpose. The point is to integrate DC Fast Charging into the parking lot of other facilities. Location Matters.

[@Aslash304]

What’s the price per kWh?

[@didierpuzenat7280]

In Europe, and I assumed in the US, most Tesla superchargers have toilette and coffee and food nearby at a walking distance. And who cares about a canopy, it takes 4 seconds to plug, canopies are needed for gas stations because you must wait beside the car for several minutes.

[@Aslash304]

Most is correct.

[@MGMidget73]

@@didierpuzenat7280 Gas, you fill up in five minutes and you are on your way. Waiting 40 minutes to charge is insane. At 60mph u could of traveled another 40miles. Case of the tail wagging the dog. And last time I checked no chargers hanging from trees on back roads to charge your Rivian SUV😂

[@didierpuzenat7280]

@MGMidget73 It takes me 4 seconds to charge, obviously you have never use an EV.

[@didierpuzenat7280]

@MGMidget73 It takes almost the same time to make eg 1000 km with an EV or a petrol car, and I have 20 years of experience driving EVs (and 40 years driving ICEs) while you are just a social network expert.

[@MGMidget73]

@@didierpuzenat7280 No it doesn't. Unless you take very long breaks while driving your gas or diesel vehicle. Like I said five minutes to fill up and go your way or about 40-50 minutes to fully charge. Going 60 miles an hour which would translate to a mile a minute I could go upwards if 50 miles while you are sitting on your duff waiting to fully charge. And that's not counting you waiting on a charger to free up or finding a working one. And also the brutality of child labor in the Congo and elsewhere mining the cobalt etc used for your batteries all so you can drive around sipping your latte and virtue signal. And I might add about 54 years driving cars, trucks and motorcycles. Also airplanes and helicopters which use 100 av gas and Jet A. EVs have their place on golf courses and communities like The Villages in Florida and elsewhere.

[@mriguy3202]

I own a property on a busy highway with no chargers nearby and a restaurant at the location, easy access. I have contacted Ford and GM when they've previously announced a 'big rollout' of EV chargers and never once got a call back. I'll let you know if I get a response and how it goes.

[@Aslash304]

I very much appreciate this. Thank you for sharing

[@mriguy3202]

@@Aslash304 First feedback: two communications from Ionna already, they will call me after the holidays.

[@brokeboy87]

I'm only looking at cars with a 300-mile range since I aim to charge once a week at a public charger. Where I live, there isn't any level 2 charging available.

[@Aslash304]

Gas Stations could fix this. Thanks for sharing your experience

[@DblOSmith]

100%!!! Gas stations could have had a monopoly, but they're just... silly. If Exxon/Loves, etc guaranteed DCFC at all their stations 5-7 years ago, I would have exclusively used them on the multiple cross country trips I've taken in my MYP. I wouldn't even think of going to Meridian, MS back of a closed mall Supercharger. BTW, I have a google map of preferred charging stations with the gas station model or amenities like IONNA. Can't wait to use it.

[@Aslash304]

I hope Ionna adds a great charging option across the country. Gas Stations could have had it. Thanks for watching

[@DblOSmith]

@@Aslash304 One thing that wasn't mentioned was pull through stations. I don't think I've seen any of those on IONNA stations. :(

[@viktorivakhno2244]

The problem with chargers now - no cover during rain. In Europe a lot of gas stations remove gas pumps and put ev chargers. You have cover and could have 20% chargers and 80% pumps

[@Aslash304]

I really like the 20/80 concept. I think cover is more important for gas than EV charging because you don’t have to sit outside and pump your electricity. But, cover is definitely nice to have.

[@MTNRanger]

Are you going to the Apex IONNA event tomorrow?

[@Aslash304]

Too long of a trip this time. I hope it goes well.

[@MTNRanger]

@@Aslash304 BTW, pricing will be $0.02/kWh for the event. I'll be returning on the 30th after it officially opens to do a full 10-80% test at regular pricing.

[@Aslash304]

Sound like a good test

[@MTNRanger]

@@Aslash304 Coincidently, last week I was able to test a new Circle K site that just opened near our airport. With the GM Pilot/Flying J project, there will be a lot of other sites coming around the country. 24-7 truck stops are a no-brainer for a dozen fast chargers - open, lots of space and typically near high power, food, restrooms.

[@RandallJenschke]

Most gas stations don't have the real estate to add several chargers and fast charging still takes 30min+. The future is level 3 charging at every fast food restaurant, every sit down restaurant, every grocery store, every shopping center, as well as level 2 at every motel, hotel, and office building. McDonald's or Chick-fil-A needs to buy the company Tritium DCFC and make it happen

[@Aslash304]

I like the idea. If even one fast food chain would do it, that would be good.

[@notshylo]

BMW app is showing $0.48 at the Apex Ionna. Reasonable for me when considering on-site amenities. I just paid nearly that on Magic Dock in a Lowe’s parking lot. 😅

[@Aslash304]

That’s not a bad price. Let’s see if it holds up

[@ZekeBriarcliff]

I am baffled that gas stations haven't installed at least one charging stall at each and every location. I think that's the case in Europe - at least I've seen vids showing charging banks at the circle K. It's a real no-brainer, in my opinion. I mean, they already offer multiple octanes of gasoline plus diesel, why not a third fuel? Hmmm... I suspect anti-Ev attitudes more than actual business thinking is to blame. Boys will be boys...

[@Aslash304]

Brilliant feedback. Top marks.

[@Nicholas-f5]

Cities have to require it

[@Aslash304]

@@Nicholas-f5 agree

[@LJLion]

I think Tesla has already captured the whole charging market with all automakers consolidating around NACS, the speed and size at which SCs are being deployed and finally their dynamic pricing. I own a Lightning, since the Ford admission to the Tesla network, I only charge at Superchargers because of reliability and pricing. And I bet a lot of people feel this way. If IONNA is coming in for a cash grab like Shell Recharge or Pilot Flying J with their non starter 60¢/Kw , there are in for a rude awakening. I can compare pricing with my Ford app. 30¢ to 45¢ is acceptable; 50¢ to 60¢, that's straight up greed.

[@Aslash304]

Agree 100%. I’m a price shopper myself. ChargePoint offers the lowest rates in my area. And I also start getting uncomfortable around $0.50 per kW.

[@chiplangowski3298]

My last two employers had ChargePoint chargers onsite. One current one is free, the other was at a discount price (13 cents per kW). I also have a level-2 charger at home. My Tesla Model Y has never been connected to a Supercharger. The nearest one to me is 15 miles away. The Supercharger network isn't the be-all, end-all for many people.

[@lkeil84]

Slow chargers (level 2) really only have a few use cases. Shopping malls where you might spend a couple of hours, at work where you may be there all day and at home where you will be there all night. Even a grocery store is not a great place for level 2 chargers, but level 3 is great, and 50-100kw is fine. A couple of miles here and there does not account for much in the charging dollars spent. I have had my electric car for over 7 years now, and it is only a 120 mile model. It has been years since I plugged into a level 2 charger other than at my house. In fact, I have gone back to using a level one charger because it gets the job done just fine and keeps the batteries at less than 100% for a much longer period of time. It also does not need to run the cooling system while charging wasting electricity. Even after all that, with the relatively short distance it can travel, I rarely ever use a fast charger. I cannot even think of a single time in the last year I needed one. In conclusion, where there needs to be level 2 chargers, or even level 1, is at or near your house and at work. Any other places would be where you would typically spend a couple of hours or more like a movie Theatre would be great example. Places of 5 or 10 minutes makes no sense at all for level 2.

[@Aslash304]

45 million Americans rent the place they live, and can’t add charging.

[@lkeil84]

5 minutes at a level 2 charger does not even put a dent in that reality.

[@Aslash304]

@@lkeil84 who said 5 minutes?

[@mahdielectrified]

ALSO, if you own 1 of the 8 founding member vehicle then you should get the membership for cheaper lol. I hate Evgo pricing as it does differentiate between their partner sites. Here in PA they get Nevi funding for flying J and Pilot and they charge .67cents a kilowatt common man😅

[@Aslash304]

I agree with this. Pricing should be standardized.

[@bloodycreepy]

That has nothing to do with EVgo at pilot. The host set the price

[@Aslash304]

@@bloodycreepy is that pilot or EVGo?

[@mahdielectrified]

FLYING J, is the host in of the stop I used and the price was .63 cents, they lowered it to .59. You dont get the point the host in this case Flying J, got 700K grant to install it and now price gouging

[@bloodycreepy]

@@Aslash304 pilot

[@rogergeyer9851]

Good video and various angles. I have thought for at least 5 years that gas stations should/will MOSTLY convert part or all of their gas pumps to chargers, depending on the regulations and safety issues (gas fumes and high voltage / current merit caution). It's inevitable that as a trend, EV's (including hybrids) will proliferate for simple economic reasons. In places where apartments, etc. don't have lots of chargers, there will be BIG demand for fast, efficient, convenient, and reliable public charging. I think Ionna should have options to have lower priced charging in exchange for various levels of cash up front, as a "partnership option" as they grow. Whether businesses will look long term enough to sign up for this is, of course, a big question.

[@Aslash304]

Thanks for the feedback! I hope more gas stations get on board

[@hobartspitz1029]

This video is just one more reason why PHEVs are the best type of vehicle for everyone now and for everyone in the future. My 2017 now reads 82 MPG lifetime; in theory, that's over 1000 miles of driving range. (The A and B odometers read even higher MPG. I learned a few things along the way. See below.) Most days the daily MPG reads 199.99, the maximum readout. How is that possible? I charge at night, while I sleep, using discounted electricity. I limit charging time with a smart appliance switch to minimize battery degradation. (I haven't observed any degradation yet.) That means I can leave it plugged in if I might not be using the car the very next day. Short charging sessions and not leaving a traction battery full are good practices for minimizing battery degradation and fires. I replaced the 12 volt battery after 5 years. Don't forget regenerative braking; that's a big gas saver. At first, I didn't know what I was getting into. My 2001 Prius got a check engine light just as I was about to move 1500 miles for a new job. I was sold on hybrids, but didn't really appreciate how much better the PHEV was. I took a chance and really lucked out. The 2001 Prius got 50 MPG on a good day if I stayed at the speed limit. That got me more than a few scowles in big states like Virginia and Texas. Here's the correct way to drive a PHEV: EV mode is for short trips and getting to the highway. (The car starts in EV mode.) At speed on the highway, where the ICE engine is more efficient, switch to HV mode. I'm never going back to HEVs or ICEs. My 2001 Prius lasted 17 years and could have run for longer if not for the circumstantnce. No one can guarrantee that it will be easy to find a gas station in 17 years within the driving range of an ICE car or even an HEV. Just the other day I saw two boarded up gas stations opposite each other at the intersection of two busy 6 lane roads. It will be a long time before I get an BEV. I have no range anxiety, no long charging times, no expensive charging costs, no battery degradation concerns, minimal maintenance costs, minimal gas costs, no issues with working compatible chargers, etc. Why would I ever even consider a BEV? Why would anyone? Stopping at a gas station, is still convinent now. Most of the time, it's just a snack, a drink and a bathroom break (not in that order. :-) ) My gas tank takes much longer to get low than it takes for my bladder to get full. LOL! With just a little care, a PHEV will more than pay for itself in gas and maintenance savings. When (not if) global warming gets bad enough, they may have to implement free lanes on toll roads and other advantages for PHEVs and BEVs. More reasons why PHEVs are better than BEVs: Decarbonization with PHEVs is a more effective way to fight global warming than electrification with BEVs. Everyone can drive a PHEV. Not everone can afford and charge a BEV. If they realize it, the fossil fuel companies and ICE vehicle manufacturers may push PHEVs so that their industries can have softer landings than would be the case otherwise. Don't believe it? Google "dropping ice vehicle demand and dropping gasoline demand".

[@Aslash304]

I had a Plug-in Hybrid. It was fine. It cost the same as an EV would today. But once I realized I didn’t have to use gas, I didn’t want to use gas. Plug in hybrids are the most expensive type of vehicle today. There are very few for sale, and they don’t sell well. With 2 powertrains, they are super complex and expensive to build. The Prius prime and Kia Niro PHEV are the only two options under $40k, and there are many EV options for less money. Honda doesn’t offer one, GM doesn’t offer one. Why is that? The only reason they exist is because companies want to game the system to continue to build gas engines. There’s no profit for automakers. Personally, I really enjoyed my plug in hybrid….when it was running on electricity. When it wasn’t, it was loud and slow. And I still had to do oil changes.

[@hobartspitz1029]

@@Aslash304 If you follow the correct way to charge and drive a PHEV, I'm sure you'll realize why they are the perfect car for the current state of the world: A climate crisis that is called a hoax, non-functional rightist 1% pro-oil governments, citizenry that is taken in by lying politicians, etc. We all have to do our part. When it comes to choosing a car, that means choosing a PHEV. Unlike other types, they pay for themselves.

[@capnkirk5528]

This guy makes so much sense ... Business owners are often STUPID.

[@Aslash304]

Thanks for watching!

[@Nicholas-f5]

Public charging is a scam, often costs more than gas

[@Aslash304]

Did we add the cost of the gasoline pump installation?

[@KevinLyda]

Fast chargers on highways are good. But I do think level 2 chargers in places like Walmart will provide a lot of the charging. Then just charge for parking. Sorry about that last sentence, maybe I've lived in Europe too long.

[@Aslash304]

I like this idea. Bring on the charger parking lots

[@vremster]

Rural fast-charge stations could be a great start-up business. You basically just gave a template for it. Do some extra research, put it all together, and submit for a SBA loan.

[@Aslash304]

Great suggestion

[@joen4088]

$2k to install to what amounts to a dryer outlet?? That's insane. Nothing but a money grab. You can install one yourself in like 2hrs for and $500 tops. You don't need one of those fancy units. When will people stop bending over and paying outrageous prices? This is why we have inflation.

[@stephkent2736]

The answer is "depends on situation". Where I live, $2K to have a trench dug, quality equipment installed, permits pulled, etc is fairly standard for detached garages - and means if anything bad happens, my insurance will pay out. Even for $1K, to know that it's done to an inspection/commercial standard is worth every penny.

[@geraldh.8047]

Usually stupid government regulation that requires special people doing special work and filling out special forms that only they are allowed to submit in order to inflate prices.

[@Aslash304]

I think asking people to install high current electrical equipment is a tall order.

[@moon_wobble7782]

It all depends on how far the circuit breaker is from the destination. Most of the cost is for the copper, if an easier pull is available. Mine was across the house and garage, so a lot of wire was needed, and the cost was over $1k.

[@Species-lj8wh]

LOL, maybe If your circuit breaker is in the garage. 6 gauge wire, is $1.50 a foot. x4 wires. Makes it $6 a foot. If the run is longer than 50 feet you have size up to the next gauge. 4 gauge wire is $2 a foot x4 wires. $8 a foot making a 60 foot run $480 just in wire. Not to mention conduit, the breaker, the charger. and that's if you have space in your circuit panel. If you don't the costs can explode. In my case it cost me $1200 in parts (including a Grizzl-e charger) to do all the work myself. And do you think most people will be comfortable working with high current electrical? No.

[@Jet_Pilot525]

Rivian is starting to launch "charging outposts" that look awesome. There's two up and running in CA right now. One is actually in a converted old gas station.

[@Aslash304]

The more the merrier. I would love to visit one of these.

[@Miata822]

From the beginning EVgo has been surprisingly reliable and responsive for a non-Tesla charger network. They made life with my 2011 LEAF in a big city possible, if not totally convenient. That you complain about their rates even though you understand what it costs to build and maintain each charger is a big part of the difficulty of getting widespread charging. Customers are unwilling to pay what it really costs to deliver that juice. The same is true with most gas stations. Markup on liquid fuel in a competitive market is in the mid single digits. Only high volume drive-through pump stations on the freeway profit from fuel sales. 7-11s and Mom&Pop sure don't, but they do it for the customers it brings into the store. This is all more complex than you present, but the markup on DCFC will never fully fund the cost of providing it. I wish Ionna well. When you use DCFC you are really paying for the service, not the electricity.

[@Aslash304]

Very well said. How much does installing a gas pump cost?

[@Miata822]

@@Aslash304 Quite a bit more than just the pump. The underground tanks and plumbing are both costly and heavily regulated. Maintenance costs are also high. The big advantage of selling gasoline is that well over 90% of cars passing by every day require gasoline that is only very rarely available at home. It helps greatly that gas pumps have a high customer throughput. That is, many different customers can use the same pump in any given hour. Buc-ee's is unique in that it devotes more space to pumps than really needed, allowing customers to stay at the pump while they shop. The Buc-ee's model is well suited for EV charging but requires lots of space. That's why you only see them out where land is cheap. Unfortunately that same kind of location can be painfully expensive to serve with multi-megawatt 3-phase power.

[@KlodFather]

The only way forward for ELECTRIFICATION is to employ THORIUM. Thorium is so very plentiful that we have thousands of years of it under our feet until we are able to get fusion going. Thorium is VERY plentiful and has a much more efficient use of the fuel. With this technology we can heat, light, and automate our means of production and have ample power to spare.

[@Aslash304]

I guess we have to pause all of the everything until then.

[@KlodFather]

@@Aslash304 - No pause... work on Thorium is now. We perfected it back in the late 60's but it yields no bomb materials. But now is the time to build these IN YOUR BACK YARD and in many places to stabilize the grid and to pick up the load should the grid be strained in an emergency. We would also be producing enough power to share with Canada and Mexico for production of goods along the border. Being more self reliant is a good thing and necessary considering what a powder keg Asia and Eastern Europe have become. It is imperative we get this done soon, not for enviroweinerism but because it is necessary for manufacturing and to produce the tremendous amounts of power we will need for refined metals, rare earths, aluminum, and all the widgets that need made to break the ties with china and other countries who hate the west as well as support our allies. Thorium power can make big strides to clean up pollution in "Air Trap" or "Air Inversion" environments where pollution gets trapped and will not dissipate. Keep in mind that one belch of a volcano makes more pollution than man has ever made in his entire existence. But its not nice to foul or soil our nest. Lets get it done.

[@Aslash304]

@@KlodFather the “enviroweinerism” says it all. Why do people even care about anything except thorium and enviro meats?

[@KlodFather]

@@Aslash304 - I have said many times that we should be good stewards of the world we live in and not foul our nest... But there is no good answer about greenhouse gas considering one belch of a volcano makes more of it than man has made in his entire existence. It is an exercise in futility. Furthermore Thorium is a good idea because radioactive biproducts are many times less dangerous and cool off quicker after being spent in a Thorium Salt reactor. We also should be running breader reactors with on site nuclear waste. Yes they make Plutonium which can be used for bombs, but it can also be made into nuclear generators like is on the Voyager 1 & 2 and operating for 5 decades. It is the surest way to not put dirt in the air and clean things up. I am fairly certain that cars and trucks are clean enough and that the public will make their own choice as to what kind of vehicles they will drive. Internal combustion engines are necessary and lithium is very dangerous. The court of public opinion will figure this out and we do not need a government agency with the power of kings dictating to us all aspects of life. The free market will decide. The EPA is no longer a helpful entity but a ball and chain to innovation and choice and their influence in civilian issues should be GREATLY curbed. Like in Diesel-Gate. Do you increase carbon in the air by making the gas milage lousy on those cars or clean them up for some marginal at best improvement at the expense of wasting fuel? Newer diesels with DPF waste much more fuel than the models before 2007. Any truck driver can tell you that. They know because every fraction of fuel efficiency makes a big difference. I helped my brother bring the efficiency of his OTR Freightliner up from 5mpg to 9.5 by reprogramming and changing lots of parts. He was not legal in CA but he did not smoke and it burned a heck of a lot less fuel. That is the mark of enviroweinerism... The doubling of fuel consumption.

[@Nicholas-f5]

Ausitn banned them unfortunately

[@Aslash304]

In residential, mixed use, and pedestrian friendly areas. Not in commercial and industrial areas. That it literally where every gas station is.

[@joeyscleaninglady2877]

There is no such thing as a level 2 external charger. The charger is a rectifier which is on board the vehicle (AC to DC) the only external charger is a DC charger.

[@Aslash304]

Semantics wins again.

[@rodferguson3515]

I think that lonnna being upstart company for OEM legacy brands are going to be in stiff competition should the Chinese come to these shores with their cars and also in a structure and also manufacturing. Reason why I'm saying this is because the Chinese are going to create their own instruction that's going to be opposition to Ionana and OEM instructere which will probably be cheaper quicker with more infrastructure throughout the country eventually..

[@Aslash304]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

[@cocorna3282]

THE CHINESE MODEL WILL WIN: Understanding fuel is under 6% of a locations revenue, current stations will swap 40% pumps to NEV, followed a few years later to 90%.

[@Aslash304]

I hope so.

[@Techridr]

Hard to speculate on Ionna this early. They're on a slow rollout, the American market is also still slow to adopt making profits for larger rollouts nearly impossible in the short term. They will have to roll out in a huge way to be successful meaning they will lose money for years before any possible profits. During this time, they have to maintain the stations, and have a 97-99% uptime and EV adoption will have to keep growing till it hits a crucial critical mass. I can't wait for more charging stations, but this will be a long process and will only succeed if done right. Also, the average time of road-trip charging 10 years ago was about 60-80 minutes. Today, the average is closer to 15-20 minutes. I suspect in 5 years (2030), which is the time-line I give Ionna to be a significant player, typical charge stops should take no longer than 5 minutes. All those expensive amenities will become less important as we reach similar times it takes to fill with gas/diesel. Also, the more stations along any route also means less time per charge stop since less charging under like 60% means less overall time spent.

[@Aslash304]

Agree. Great feedback. Well thought out, and very similar to how I feel.

[@bloodycreepy]

when gas cars were being built, the car companies didn't have to build the gas station but ionna decided to do it themselves since the infrastructure was not doing it very well also ionna has a lot of tesla charging station people on their team to help build out this infrastructure

[@Aslash304]

I think they will have success building chargers. But I’m not super pumped about the luxury style.

[@davidew98]

I wish you would have brought up blink. They tie Electrify America for first place for worse charging experience.

[@Aslash304]

Blink is so bad, they don’t deserve a mention

[@YeOldeTraveller]

I think the gas station companies are getting moving now. Loves, TA (BP), Pilot Flying J all have projects to install chargers. Bucee's has said that all new sites will have chargers. Shell globally is investing in EV chargers. As to the pricing, there is one thing the average consumer rarely sees, and that is demand charges. Electric companies have either a separate charge, or sometimes a multiplier, based on the peak energy consumed in each unit time. This is way there are many installations with batteries. These are used to reduce this peak demand.

[@Aslash304]

Great feedback. Transparency solves everything. Show me the current demand charge to justify the 6x price, and I’ll be more comfortable with it.

[@YeOldeTraveller]

@@Aslash304 Depending on where you are, residential power can be 15 cents/KWh. Based on that, I would agree that 6x is excessive. In fact, 4x (60 cents/KWh) is the start of hard to justify. I expect competition to push the per KWh cost to nearly the actual commercial rates, but that will take time. The top rate on the Pilot Flying J effort has already dropped from 85 cents to near 60 cents. Still high, but you are not in the back of a Walmart parking lot in the middle of the night with no available restrooms. Several of the PFJ sites even have canopies (something we expect for gas pumps, but currently rare for EV chargers).

[@andrepayne9566]

Good video what you think about KOVE charging station the first one is in Santa Ana California take a look at Kyle’s Conners video that he made on this new charging station

[@Aslash304]

The Kove location looks very fancy. I hope they do well. Cheers!

[@jamesrea329]

Haha, I’ve seen people that watched Kyle’s video call it Gove and now Kove 😂. It’s “Rove”. I went there a couple of weeks ago, it’s pretty cool.

[@michaelputnam2532]

Of course, there's still the question of total available electricity. Basically, there isn't enough juice to power an EV conversion, quickly or slowly, so the whole thing is just stupid from the beginning.

[@Aslash304]

I would absolutely love to know how all of a sudden there’s not enough electricity. Cryptocurrency, something that hardly existed 15 years ago, uses 100+ terawatt hours of electricity per year. But the cars can’t be supported? I believe the “whole thing is just stupid” is the opinion, and the “there isn’t enough juice” is a wish because vroom vroom, glug glug.

[@brianwilcox2543]

My wife & I are retired. We're going to keep 2 vehicles: one gas-powered for road tripping (her Volvo wagon) and an EV with ~250-300 mile range for around town use. We have solar panels on the house and a pair of batteries in the garage. The EV will get charged at home probably very close to 100% of the time and the charging companies can get screwed!

[@Aslash304]

Not a bad strategy.

[@brodriguez11000]

@@Aslash304 Like having a gas generator at the house tapping into their own personal hydrocarbon source.

[@Aslash304]

@@brodriguez11000 over 20% of US electricity is renewable. And none of it comes from conflict zones. What percentage of gasoline is renewable?

[@jimcrawford3185]

Might be a good idea to double down on your fire insurance

[@Aslash304]

@@jimcrawford3185 because gas cars never catch on fire. It’s only EVs

[@anthonyc8499]

Loved this content, even more so since i disagree with Adam on a couple of things. First, I think the price-sensitivity is only worth so much. Sitting for 45 minutes at a 62kW charger at a Chevron vs 15 mins at an IONNA to save $5, just doesnt make sense from a time/money + experience perspective for most drivers. Secondly, pricing for DCFC needs to make sense. I'd argue that part of EA's problems for years was that they were cavalier about operating costs, to the point that they just gave away free electricity for days or weeks. Now that they care about survival, they're priced more appropriately.

[@Aslash304]

Great feedback! I stop once an hour on long trips, and charge for 5 minutes or so each time. It takes longer, but keeps my battery between 40% and 60%. This is a habitual behavior formed by living in a charging desert, but has served me well. Some stops I don’t get much energy, but it’s cheap. Some stops I get a bunch of energy at a high cost. But since I don’t run the battery low, none of them are super fast anyway. It’s a choice. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@anthonyc8499]

@@Aslash304 for sure, I value your opinion and the experience you bring to your content. I was just listening to another podcast and they cited a recent UK survey of EV drivers that found 90% of EV drivers would pay more to eliminate charge times by 15 mins.

[@Derpy1969]

When will charging stations be like gas stations: facilities, food, drink, etc?

[@Aslash304]

Great question, This is what Ionna wants to do. Either integrate charging into the stations, or install chargers in unique locations that offer similar experiences. I’m just worried the cost of electricity will be high.

[@typxxilps]

Hi, thisis what I got as titl and it does not sound good : Wird Ionna Tankstellen in den Ruin treiben? Can you stop the trranslation please.

[@typxxilps]

now i got it : looks like ionity in europe - the most expensive one but also most reliable

[@Aslash304]

Thanks for the feedback, Cheers!

[@tradingmedic]

Where is the profit in charging vehicles? They make next to nothing on the charging and the amount of cars per hour drops by 80-90% compared to gas.

[@Tech4Ten]

The profit is never really with the fuel whether it be gas or electricity it is the attached convience store that make the money. Watch the evolution of gas and convience store on KZbin and you will see what I mean.

[@Aslash304]

How much money do gas stations make on gas?

[@brodriguez11000]

@@Tech4Ten Maybe run a tire shop to make up for greater weights.

[@Tech4Ten]

@brodriguez11000 ?? Not quite sure what u mean but ok?

[@brodriguez11000]

@@Tech4Ten EVs are usually heavier vehicles than ICE meaning greater tire replacements over life of vehicle. Basically, go where the money is.

[@orbitaljellyfish808]

How I understand why EVGo and Electrify America have such awful apps and payment/usage methods It’s like they got paid to make it extra convoluted and inconvenient

[@Aslash304]

A likely explanation

[@davidew98]

Nice to have met you today

[@Aslash304]

Thanks for your comment

[@Kerbezena]

4:46 "the two biggest public charging networks in North America" … (and the presidency)

[@Aslash304]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@mahdielectrified]

I dont think Ionna is going to play EVgo GM, FLYING J/pilot game of .60-67 cents a kilowatt. Thats just my gut intuition as they would provide discount rate if you have their membership

[@Aslash304]

I appreciate you sharing your feedback. It’s not a discount if you have to pay to get it. All of the current networks do that too.

[@jamesr.9239]

Up till now it's been the classic chicken vs egg scenario concerning charging. " If you build it , they will come" , vs it ain't built so I'm not coming (buying an EV). Slowly but surely as the barriers--read excuses---, are knocked down , EV sales will increase at a rapid pace. 100 + years ago they had cars that were too expensive , there were no gas stations , no reliable roads , no auto services to speak of, but these obstacles were one by one overcome and ultimately lead to gridlock and pollution. ICE car manufacturers , oil companies, and technological troglodytes not withstanding, we will reach mass EV adoption eventually,

[@Aslash304]

History for the win. Great feedback

[@MFunkibut]

It'll be interesting when the government gets involved [ignore Trump&Elon for the moment]. Let say Ionna gets successful. The oil lobby and all their dollars will go "OMG! Car companies have a monopoly! So unfair! Do something Ms. Congressperson!" And then the hearings will start and some folks will start insisting car companies divest of Ionna...

[@Aslash304]

Governments have a lot of power. That’s for sure

[@pbreedu]

Misleading title. Gas stations are called gas stations because they sell gasoline. You are talking about EV chargers which is not the same thing.

[@Aslash304]

Thanks for your feedback. Is there a law against gas stations having charging? I also spend at least 40% of this video specifically talking about gas stations.

[@aerojet393]

Small issue, trash cans at Tesla superchargers. I would think most all charger users would use a trash bin?

[@Aslash304]

If there is one. Sure.

[@billderinbaja3883]

And window washing stations... basin, squeegee, paper towels... everyone needs them when they stop.

[@AdamPearce]

Out of curiosity - how many people are using L2s for road trip charging?

[@Aslash304]

That’s how we decide where to eat. Also, not every driver that needs to charge away from home is on a road trip. It’s kind of like assuming everyone who gets gas has to drive 100 miles to get home.

[@JonSnyderfudge]

Gas stations will eventually realize they blockbustered themselves..... eventually.

[@Aslash304]

Yes. It’s a ways out, but absolutely true nonetheless. Agree 100%

[@Neojhun]

Nope most station owners already realize that. Thus why they have DIVERSIFIED to Convenience Stores and putting more effort into Food. Retail Sale of Fuel is not a solvent business. It's a way to attract other business while not quite at a loss. These are just business economic facts, regardless what agenda people have with energy.

[@Aslash304]

@@Neojhun so, if the gasoline isn’t profitable, why not add another revenue stream?

[@kennethpereyda5707]

not going to happen

[@kennethpereyda5707]

@@Aslash304 in the year 3035

[@jamesbecker4326]

great video

[@Aslash304]

Thanks for watching!

[@tonystorcke]

Ionna will be joining with gas stations. They are working with Sheetz and others.

[@Aslash304]

Correct. Explicitly stated in the video.

[@Coolcatgrooves]

As usual aces on the video, great information, I was pleased to hear about the possibility, of gas stations, using charging stations. I had that idea a couple years ago, not to say that I am the smartest person on the planet, but if I was thinking about it, then there are others thinking about this as well,to me it’s a no-brainer yeah put charging stations and either no non-functional gas stations or on the side everywhere. I also have to say I had to stop the video when you said Buckys I couldn’t stop laughing so funny but anyway, thanks again for a great video.

[@Aslash304]

I always appreciate the feedback! I’m glad it was entertaining. Cheers!

[@lkeil84]

Kinda not well thought out. $40k for the fast charger, and not really that fast. You can probably expect at a minimum for $20k for installation. Could be a long time, even years for the utility to get the power to the location and maybe a lot of money for them also. A couple of 100kw fast chargers take more power than 10 gas stations. Now your probly $150k in at a minimum. You may pay as little as $0.10 per kw of electricity, and you want the company to provide that for free? Are you high? Gonna be a few cups coffee there to pay this thing off, like a few million because it still costs you a dollar everytime that somebody plugs in, and that is just electricity. So now you decide that you have to charge for charging. At what rate then? You have $150k out and operating costs as well as maintenance. So I would say a minimum of 30 cents/kw just to be able to break even in say, 20 years. Although some of what you say seems well thought out, you don't have a grasp of the cost of doing business in this arena. And a level 2 charger free at a convinience store, really? I would never go out of my way for that free one mile of charge. I would not even bother to plug in if I did stop there for 5 minutes. Now in Florida, the Florida Light and Power "FPL Evolution" has started to install 100kw+ fast chargers in areas that are under served and only charge $0.30/kw. I even ran across one with a NAC's head on a couple of the chargers. When I am in Florida, this is where I charge exclusively. Each day I head out to the charger, plug in and then get on my phone to spend the 30 minute routine of reading Emails and writing this stuff. Time kinda wasted anyway, so killing the charging thing at the same time is a no brainer.

[@Aslash304]

So, slow, cheap fast chargers shouldn’t be installed, but those are the ones you use? Just trying to wrap my head around the message. Feel free to elaborate.

[@Jdalio5]

Dont worry the EV fad has already peaked

[@Aslash304]

This is impossible to prove with accurate data, but opinions are fun this way.

[@rogermartinez78]

Jdalio, I am not sure why you believe EV take up has peaked, but if you love sending your money to the oil sheiks in the Middle East stick with your gas car bud, I don’t.

[@JeffButera]

Can we assume that many larger convenience stores have access to commercial 3 phase power? The "other" in-between is what my Honda dealer did: If they have access to 277V or 480V power, install an 100A AC charger which can deliver 30kw. This is still level 2 but gets close to the lower end of DC Fast charging. And still better than a 48A charger at 11.5kw delivery.

[@Aslash304]

Fast AC charging could definitely provide a large benefit. Thanks for the feedback

[@jamesrea329]

There’s no cars that can take 30kw ac. Most top out at 11.

[@JeffButera]

@ if that’s true, why do Grizzl-e, Ford and others make 80A and 100A chargers? These deliver 19.2kw and 23kw, respectively.

[@jamesrea329]

@@JeffButera There are a few cars that can take more than 11kw, for example the Ford F-150 Lightning. If you own such a car, then it makes perfect sense to put one of these high power chargers in your garage (if you've got the power available). But for public charging, the higher power would be wasted for 99% of vehicles that showed up at your hypothetical convenience store. (Note: In Europe the cars receive 3-phase power directly so 20+kw charging is typical.)

[@timnevitt2993]

u would think that all these car dealers would have them in their lots since they sell them

[@aikafuwa7177]

I do not know about where you've been looking, but a lot of dealers have charging stations, lots of them are the 50-62 KWh types, so the slower end of the DCFC.

[@Aslash304]

Car dealers are about the only place to find them in a lot of charging deserts.

[@timnevitt2993]

@@Aslash304 in my area car dealers only level 2 chargers i dont have 8 hrs to charge i can do that at home

[@OpinionatedOG184]

All of the dealerships in my metropolitan city have DC fast charging. In fact, when I arrived in May of 2023 to take delivery of my new car it was on the DC fast charger when I arrived. Many of the gas stations here also have DC fast chargers including all BP stations. And on top of that, there are fast chargers being built out all over Charlotte at what seems breakneck speeds. Even Tesla superchargers are being built out in new areas. Compared to just 5 years ago EVs have exploded onto our roads and highways year over year. In my opinion just from my personal observation, EV adoption is happening much faster than the average person realizes.

[@Aslash304]

@@timnevitt2993 curious to know what area of the country

[@lightingnut]

But who wants to wait while their car charges while on a long trip. No think you. It is going to be years and years before we can produce enough electricity to charge cars.

[@Aslash304]

No, think you.

[@hobartspitz1029]

Charge it at night!

[@Killahkron1992]

Tesla Have WaWas

[@Aslash304]

Correct. Explicitly stated in the video.

[@Sagiterrian77]

Gas stations?

[@Aslash304]

Yep. Those are discussed in this video

[@frankdattilo1836]

So, EV charging sucks, back to combustible engine😊

[@Aslash304]

A very hard thing to convince an EV owner to do.

[@Chris_In_Texas]

As both a gas and EV owner, I have a huge problem with "free" level 2 charging. Where is my free gas and diesel if I come into the business just like the one you are giving free power to? Right now there is a huge catch 22 going on with charging and EVs. I don't know the percentage of roads, but I would say less than 50% are accessible by EV's for road trips with DCFC reach without having to go way out of your way to charge. Just like you mentioned with respect to US-50. Look at Montana, the Dakota's, Nebraska, KS or even west Texas. You can only travel on interstate to go anyplace. Until EV's can travel to all the places that ICE vehicles can, people won't purchase them. That is why I only use my Tesla as an around town car for the most part, I have taken it on road trips when staying on the interstate system, and while it's fine and no issues, the extra few hours of "charging" time, isn't worth it, when I can make over 600 miles on a tank full of diesel in my truck and then it takes about 5 mins to refill my ~1.8MWe of fuel. But I do agree Ionna seems like an idea to late. We need another legacy auto manufacture to make a charging network, just isn't in the cards. 👍🤠

[@Aslash304]

Excellent feedback! The free gas comes from loyalty programs. $0.03 off a gallon every time you pump, and more when you walk inside and buy stuff. You’re absolutely right about DCFC. We need it everywhere. As for the free charging, The free power for the customer barely costs anything for the store and If I’m sitting at a well lit, convenient place to stop for 30 minutes, I’m going inside to buy something. Maybe I’m off here, but MIT and the New York Times both have studies that show the presence of charging increases business. I could be wrong, and people that charge at Level 2 chargers for free could be the only group of people on earth that don’t like a hot coffee or a cold soda. Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts

[@ryanryan1993]

I like to see stupid business out of business as Blockbuster, Nokia and Kodak. Same goes as legacy auto makers of their stupidity. What is happening to Nissan, VW, and Stellantis. All legacy auto makers will be getting smaller and smaller as year gone by, if they are not adapting to EVs.

[@MGMidget73]

Wrong. Who has forty five minutes to stay hooked up to a charger. At 60mph+ do the math on how far you can travel. That's if the charger is even online. Massive depreciation, expensive battery replacement, fire hazard on charger in your garage, range anxiety. The hunt for chargers becomes your goal and not your trip. Not to mention the brutal child labor in places like the Congo to mine cobalt all so some wokesters can drive around and virtue signal. No thank you. I chose the high road.

[@Aslash304]

Those that don’t adopt EVs are losing opportunities to profit, and making adoption harder in the future.

[@wesgraham9588]

We do'nt want EV,s 👎

[@Aslash304]

Cool.

[@mike_w-tw6jd]

then dont get an ev, and speak for yourself

[@KingLarbear]

Charge pointe and elektrify America are trash

[@Aslash304]

I have had at least one poor experience at each.

[@geoffreysmith3196]

You've highlighted something EV charging networks missed - EVs take considerable time to recharge, even on a fast charger. What will you do during that 30-60 minutes you will have to wait? Wouldn't you consider going into the adjacent diner for a meal, and maybe browsing at the store next door? Gas stations are the way they are because people seldom take more than 10 minutes to refuel. Maybe they sometimes buy a soda. But that's it. EV refueling stations will need to look a lot more like a modern truck stop on the interstate, with a diner, shops, and maybe a small arcade. Whatever's useful to kill time, while you wait for your EV to slowly refill.

[@Aslash304]

Great points. Sit down restaurants and things to do could definitely be more fitting for EVs. But that takes all new structures. There’s a lot of cost there. And as far as charge time, I’ve got about 100,000 miles of EV driving under my belt, and I have never even approached 60 minutes.

[@dave3657]

I have 460 miles of range and can recharge in ten minutes. Yeah its an ICE vehicle. 🙂

[@SICHTKRAFT]

What a banger of a joke, omg I am literally dying. Please teach me how to be that funny

[@Aslash304]

I’m leaning toward 3/10. There was an attempt at humor. And no spelling errors.

[@JRinNY]

And it costs you $70….$90 in the summer

[@NAGIUXS]

Lavale md.... ❤

[@Aslash304]

Yes, indeed.

[@davidashton6567]

1 customer per 30 minutes/ charger, hardly a huge boost in customers. What charging company is making a profit?

[@Aslash304]

What gas station owner is keeping their store open selling gas?

[@donaldgrant9067]

The one thing I haven't heard about is you are going to have to have 3 times the charging stations as gas pumps. It takes 3 times as long to charge a battery and with equal number of cars on the road you will have to have that 3 times as many charging stations. Or people will be waiting, not one of our stronger suits. Plus you will start having back logs. Just something for you EV people to chew on.

[@Member00101]

How do you think things worked when ICE vehicles first came out. Everyone won’t have an EV for at least another 20 or so years. There’s plenty of time to build more charging stations as well as battery and charging technology getting better all the time. By the time everyone has an EV it’s likely that charging with take about 10 minutes and ranges will be 500+ miles. Not to mention most people charge at home since it’s cheaper and your car is sitting for 8 hours.

[@donaldgrant9067]

@@Member00101 Just pointing it out. Your going to need more charging stations than gas pumps. And it takes about 3 to 4 minutes to put gas in my car.

[@Aslash304]

The EV charging stations are connected to networks, and the cars know when they are occupied. I’m chewing…

[@jkeelsnc]

This is a good idea and part of the challenge that Ionna can help solve with EV's. There are still other reasons I don't want one. The battery must last the life of the vehicle. Also, the battery must provide a minimum of 400 mile range at 80% charge and recharge to 80% in ~5 minutes. Finally, the pricing for EV's is still way too high. When these problems are solved then I'll think about it. it is a mistake to not let BYD dump their EV's on the market here in the US. This new competition would panic the other auto manufacturers enough to kick their behinds into high gear for affordable EV's.

[@Aslash304]

I agree on the Chinese competition. Do you have a 400 mile commute?

[@jkeelsnc]

@@Aslash304 I want to use the same car for long trips which would require several charging stops or at least one. Long range and fast recharge are needed. Much lower price and long lived battery as well.

[@Aslash304]

@@jkeelsnca Tesla model Y is $38k out the door. A Jeep grand Cherokee is the same, after dealer incentives and discounts. sometimes more. What pricing are you using as a reference? Is it 2021 pricing? Times have changed. Also, did you plan on driving 400 miles without using the restroom?

[@jkeelsnc]

@ yes, of course I would stop for the bathroom but I usually don’t take more than about 10 minutes and I rarely stop for lunch or to eat. $38k is just too much. Used won’t be a lot better. How long will the battery last? It needs to last at least 200,000 miles and maintain a high percentage of its charge. 300,000 miles minimum would be nice. Toyota longevity must be the target.

[@Aslash304]

@@jkeelsnc the newest research says 1,000,000 miles for the current technology. The average new car price is $47k. The Used market is also flush with low mileage EVs, and they come with a $4,000 (or 30%) tax credit. If you plug in every time you stop to use the restroom, that’s enough charging. I’ve done it dozens of times.

[@ivannightly1919]

EVs are topping out their sales and will have a future but are not going to be the players you think. Charge time alone is a big issue to many, that doesn't cover issues like areas with extreme heat or extreme cold both cause range issues or the total failure of the cars in Chicago just a year back. Fires take more water and foam than the trucks can hold so often the result is to let the car burn or the horror of door lock failures and being trapped to name just a few issues. Every major car company (yup even Tesla) are developing Ammonia engines its proven technology and the patents are running out on it it is 90% the power of gas you can fill your tank as fast we can convert existing gas stations with out rebuilding the grid and its ZERO carbon - EVs will have their place but not the future assumed by many

[@Aslash304]

Time will tell. Please send me a link from a legitimate source that shows Tesla’s ammonia engine.

[@kennethpereyda5707]

How much is he being paid ?

[@Aslash304]

The channel isn’t sponsored. By anyone, ever.

[@trevorstevens3870]

Yo hey now I in California and they are new truck stops and gas stations going up all over the place

[@Aslash304]

Cool. California is the most EV friendly state. It’s not a great representation of the rest of the US