Will Small Bike Shops Survive the Bike BUST?

[@718Outdoors]

This was such a wonderful experience, thanks for having me on! The "big asterisk" for al of the stuff that comes out of my month is that this is what works for me and my family.....and, I only cursed twice.

[@roastawk]

It's nice knowing that you are exactly the same person in real life. 🙂

[@chrispierce2625]

718 Cyclery has the best bike shop in NYC. Love this dude.

[@WheelcraftBicycles]

I have owned a local bike shop for 2 years after working there for 6 prior. I like this dude! There certainly are opportunities for different types of bike shops in a city and when you are independent you can just do what works for you. People want to support shops that have a "soul."

[@friscoboy98]

718 Cyclery is the best. Have purchased bikes, parts and participated in Joe's bike tours.

[@timeorspace]

Last week I paid double Amazon price for a bicycle chain from my local bike shop, and I learned more about my local terrain than I had from living there two years…..and I feel like it was worth every penny.

[@timeorspace]

I only had time for 1/2 of this video, but I feel wiser already! Thank you!

[@Ray.J]

So many things I want to say about this video but I'll sum it up and just say this was one of the best I've seen in a while. Not just on this channel, on ANY channel. So many lessons here. Thank you for posting this and for the great conversation. Joe reminds me of a couple of LBS owners I know. Great people who really appreciate the bike community and their customers especially. There is always going to be a desire to deal with owners like Joe. It is so easy to buy online and have stuff delivered to your door but what do you do when you want some personal interaction? When you need advice or to draw upon someone's experience? That's why I think some shops will survive, but they are going to have to be smart, creative and listen to what the market wants.

[@driftadvocate1839]

This convo is great. No bs and lots of words of wisdom

[@chrispierce2625]

I grew up in Montana - and live in Brooklyn - this is a collision of all my favorite things.

[@TheDedicatedcyclist]

One advantage about doing while you wait repairs is the customers are held captive in the store often times buying more stuff

[@allengarrow6295]

I like this guy! Our shop in northern Michigan was bought by specialized owned retail…. Didn’t work in our small town. They closed our doors after about a year and 3 months. The sad thing was our shop was a staple of the community since the 70’s. Community outrage and passion brought a new brick and mortar shop to our town which now has that feel we had back in the 80’s. My crew and myself are happy again and the community has their bike shop back. Thanks for doing what you do

[@GreenJeepAdventures]

The city I live in has a healthy bike culture, and it seems the shops that do the best are the ones with community outreach. One holds monthly public rides to eateries and pubs, while another specializes in day trips and overnight tours. Perhaps a bike shop should not cater to fixing and selling bikes alone, but be a people first business.

[@randomdude5938]

@RollinRat and to earn a profit as a local bike shop it seems you need to be focused on more than just earning a profit…..

[@65armadillo]

@RollinRat I’m assuming “unfortunately “ is sarcasm…

[@cameronlesley2428]

I love mlbs. It’s the cornerstone of our cycl8ng community

[@hardmtnbiker]

We have had a Trek store and a Specialized store open up recently. Many of the small family bike shops have been surviving but have a hard time finding workers, especially mechanics. I agree that the community shop that supports beginner rides and free class are a great way to generate a following of clients. One shop that was very successful lately is one that sells used bikes on consignment. They sell new bikes too but I think that having a posted inventory of all those used bikes has helped them survive and will set them apart from Specialized and Trek. Especially when all the sales start happening to move the stock piles of bikes that won’t be selling.

[@IKnowAGuyBicycles]

Love this! This has excellent insight into what you can do with your shop rather than be a Kool-Aid drinking brand-focused shop. Falls right into what I have built (I Know A Guy Bicycles) years after my family shop (Parker BIkes) closed in 2001. Garage shops or micro retail location shops are the future of family/local Bike Shops. The big boys like Trek and Specialized are taking over the high-end showroom shops. Where most people are very intimidated and overpriced for entry-level. Thanks for showing other options and experience in the cycling world.

[@K.Fulkerson]

We had a small shop that quit doing service work and quit stocking bikes for people to buy, after being in business for well over 20 years. It’s an insurance office now. It’s great that this shop found a niche.

[@kestermuller9595]

This guy has got his life all figured out. Respect!

[@318isGood]

Chiming in from Chicago. This is awesome, thanks for sharing :) It's so great to hear about this kind of shop, and through such an authentic chat. I vibe with this guy's shop, and honestly it's reassuring to hear this about the industry. For what it's worth, I mostly road cycle but really resonate with the party pace, hence I'm here. Good luck on the rest of the vids, and hope to see more of this type of chat

[@bikebikerides]

I love hearing about how other small bike shops are making a go of it in our industry. It's tough being in this game and choosing not to be representing any of the the big 4 brands. Even tougher for shops that choose to stay away from focusing on road racing bikes or dudemanbro MTB culture. Bravo, Joe. Thx Russ.

[@downtownbicycle]

Much love and respect brother Thanks for keeping it real..

[@kimrice394]

As a 49yr. old, I hate the modern business model. I wanna browse! I would love this shop!

[@cdmiller51]

Thanks. Now I know what floor pump to buy next time! 🙂 Seriously. I used to live in a community that had a local hardware store. The owner stocked all kinds of "weird" stuff. I learned quickly to go to "Dale's Hardware" first for any project be it plumbing, auto, fishing, or bicycles. Maybe Swiss Army Knives too. Plus, Ilike your "weird bike stuff."

[@clarkedevin]

Sorry I missed the live event but just watched this morning and was very enjoyable.

[@georgecarra]

Super Awesome Interview !!

[@curtbrown7967]

Thank you again Russ. This is great!

[@ltdattnspn]

That was great! 2 of my bike info resources together. Went on a ride with Joe and his community last year, hope to do more.

[@charliebamford2807]

Very interesting. I think that a concern for the LBS is the emergence of mobile mechanics. A small van kitted out with tools & consumables that comes to your house or workplace & repairs/maintains your bike there. Getting my bike into town then returning some time later is a pain that I can do without! It isn't what Joe wants to hear but I think that mobile mechanics buying components online will be a significant part of bike repair/maintenance in the future

[@roastawk]

I don't believe Joe sees mobile mechanics (or conventional bike shops) as competition. He really does not do repairs. I have been in his shop while he politely referred potential repair customers to other, larger, and better equipped stores. I have no doubt he would refer them to mobile mechanics if they were readily. available in Brooklyn. (Finding a parking spot near a customer can be a problem.) His niche of being an "outdoor" store that happens to sell bikes seems to work for him. The demand for guided experiences certainly is there. His schedule for 2023 trips sold out almost immediately upon announcement.

[@BenjaminEAlexander]

The haggling is so real, omg.

[@ChrisCapoccia]

My favorite bike shop near me is a small space, pretty lean on inventory, but he'll order and fix anything. Just the owner plus part time help, no frills repair. For nicer bikes he has a couple sample frame size bikes with basic spec people can ride around for sizing, but anything nicer has to be ordered. Interesting how 718 Cyclery has picked up this tangent bike packing / bike building thing. Sounds like a good niche that no one around him is doing

[@joeottsoulbikes415]

I just can not work for anyone any more. I know far too much about bikes to not work with bikes. Seattle is loosing shops but it's less about Trek, specialized, or anyone. It about the fact that 90% of Seattle's bike shops opened between 1979 and 1990 when those owners were 22 to 30 years old. Now 22 to 34 years later those owners are retiring. I found a former hair salon that is one block from the Seattle Rapha Club House. The neighborhood has not had a bike shop since 2013 when Velo moved to Downtown accross from Amazon wold headquarters building. So I live in the most densely populated neighborhood on the west coast with the exception of maybe Hayt Ashbury that has no bike shop. Well there is a race shop the customer complain about the attitude getting there hybrid tuned. There is a bike shop/cafe/bar that has 15% Of there space dedicated to bikes. I found a former hair salon with a 400sf loft in the back, a shower in each of.the three bathrooms and lots of space that is open floor. I have an already existing online punk clothing store. Hair salons or barber shops are the ideal place to set up a bike ship because you already have several locations with power for work benches and lots if plumbing from sinks to build showers for employee or post shop ride clean up. So what the shop will do: 1. I have 30 used bikes if various sizes I have built to be LX, XT/Ultegra or XTR/Dura Ace city touring bikes to be sold. 1. I will repair bicycles and electronic instruments as well as older quality tape, record players, receivers, Blue ray players tvs. 2. Sale leather jackets, Jean vest with punk/metal patches. Jeans, collectable Addidas, Nike, Rebook, etc... Dr. Martin boots, John Fluvog, T shirts with band prints or funny stuff. Miss cool household items. 3. I will have a side that will be punk clothing and punk/rap/rock music on tape , DAT and record I like. 4. Seattle has now lost ALL of its DYI and dive show venues. So we will have a stage at the front. A security gate I can close off the inventory with so we can have a 500df show space for local punk, rap, rock bands and some touring bands you normally would see in a larger venue. Shows will be 1st and 2nd Thursday of every month. Our opening groups will be Yallawolf, Suicide Boys, Boy Harsher. 5. I have a bank of 35 antique PO Boxes. So I will receive and send your mail for a monthly fee. 6. Winter spin classes indoors. That's my diversity to even out the dip in winter bike sales.

[@pudding1494]

Sounds like a fun place to hang out

[@mattvanderwalt6220]

I do miss the community of the small local bike shop. We used to congregate at ours in the evenings - used to talk about how much they needed to open a coffee shop... Many years later they did just that. These bigger department store branded bike shops lack the sense of a small club like community.

[@rev106]

I also sell board games, make zines and also Dungeons and Dragons supplements at my shop too, so weird!

[@718Outdoors]

we should connect!

[@SlickWillyTFCF]

I'm almost a year late, but I guess that gives me a little more knowledge than what was available when this came out. One of my local shops has become a Trek dealer, and the other two still exist - they serve different segments of the market, one being road focused and the other primarily dealing in mountain and e-bikes. So, thus far, my local options haven't changed. Though I suppose the concerns from a year ago remain much the same because the industry hasn't hit bottom - I think we're still well inside the downturn. It seems to me that unless manufacturers decide to offer less expensive product options shops are going to have to rely on maintenence and repairs and shift away from front end sales. In this economy the number of people willing to spend 3 to 15 thousand dollars on a bike isn't likely to increase, and newer cyclists, bike commuters, or those just wanting to get a little exercise are probably going to choose direct-to-consumer brands such as Canyon or Ribble since they can get a bike with better specs for a lower price. Trek has decided to "rightsize" by getting rid of 40% of their product line by 2026, but that's only going to exacerbate the problem if they continue to focus mainly on the higher end models in the 60% they plan to keep. The only thing that's going to help the industry remain structured as it is will be bringing prices back to a reasonable amount, especially for entry level and mid-range bikes.

[@frenchbikewrench7451]

Super interesting business model! The accepted thinking at least in Europe seems to be either embrace the big brands or drop bike sales and do repairs only. I work for the big active travel company you mentioned… can’t imagine running a shop and trips at the same time!

[@jesseheath7718]

Fantastic podcast Really enjoyed this interview Very well done

[@tinypapercube]

Lol I felt seen with the "vintage French bike" comment. Went into 718c years ago worth my '76 Grand Jubilée and one of the mechs GAVE me a "four banger" freewheel remover so I could do it myself.

[@TheRealZachWhitney]

Joe & Russ on one show!!!Awesome squared!

[@jonathansacci2325]

I live in Nashville and for a city that has bare minimum biking infrastructure we have a lot of great bike shops. There is one in particular I shop / go to called Halycon and they’re awesome! They seem to always be busy too with doing services and selling

[@joeottsoulbikes415]

I used to live back east. The hermitage area and when I was poor and it was extremely dangerous east Nashville by the river. Even back in the early 90s Nashville had lots of great shops even though the infrastructure and advocacy was lacking.

[@jibdam9185]

I traveled to visit Halycon from PA. That shop is a huge inspiration for me and my shop!

[@MHH3180]

I can tell you from a shop manager's perspective, being busy does not necessarily mean profitable or profitable enough to be worth the hassle. I have lost customers for charging extra to replace tubes on tubeless ready efat bikes ("shop x charged only $20 to swap the tube on my son's BMX"). Still others have walked out in a huff because the cheap on-line ebike they brought in needed half as much to repair as they paid for it (as if it was my fault). So, you end up working too hard trying to please everyone, constantly cutting in to your profit margin...bike shops at their best aren't making anyone rich.

[@daniel-marks]

Geat Business setup. Sound like a happy man.

[@weaselfever]

next time I'm in NYC I'm definitely going to this shop

[@BezuFache3429]

Don’t go to this shop. Didn’t you hear him, he said that people that see him on posts and come in to say hi are creepy.

[@jorrdang]

What happened to the Alternative Cycling Network?

[@johnykryll]

Same here too. Mind you it's not surprising considering the cost of a decent bicycle these days

[@Rcmike1234]

Idk about trek but specialized is opening a store in Atlanta. Friend looked into the shop manager position. 22$/hr for the only full time person at the store. The rest of the positions open are part time. They had to pause the opening date of the store cause they couldn't staff the store. Doesn't really seem like that much upward mobility. Not arguing against what Joe is saying about big name stores, just wanted to tack this on.

[@alterrex4463]

How did you guys hear about each other?

[@davidmurphy9151]

I always find the "book pricing" at bike shops confusing the most common and inportant tasks are essentially free and the difficult ones are priced randomly. Better to have a pro that charges 20 to look at it and 80 an hour or whatever rate is needed - if there is a clear quote and an expectation success I dont care if it is 30 or 100.

[@PhilSnider]

great interview!!

[@davidmailander8165]

Shirks bike shop, East Earl PA

[@jamesk8147]

“People are like I’ve never seen this bag in real life” “So, what do you have that people wouldn’t normally see in a bike shop?” “Swimming goggles…” I don’t think that’s what he meant…

[@SurpriseMeJT]

What an interesting interview that paints an economic and cultural picture to ponder about. However, I feel like if he's not a bike shop, maybe he shouldn't have the word "cyclery" in the name.

[@davetbassbos]

Before it starts I'm going to predict an answer will be a much leaner model focused on repair (and selling tubes!)

[@ttnyny]

The Internet- and big box- based retail environment is so bleak that there's an opportunity for small shops to offer quality and diversity. There's a local drug store where I live which was strong-armed into selling its prescription business to CVS (that's a much larger story ...). The drug store still focuses on health care - broadly defined - but also offers quality, locally-themed gifts.

[@curtbrown7967]

A shop interview with James at Good Bikes would be cool

[@MichaelMankong]

Sweet

[@where2then]

This bike shop business model is not going to work in middle America. Success in NYC is not an example of how to do things elsewhere or how to save the small bike shops

[@davetbassbos]

I think that's true, there is a lot of extra money flowing around NYC so very niche businesses can survive there and there only.

[@joeottsoulbikes415]

It's more about your community size and how out doors oriented your community is. This would work in Hopkinsville KY because there is lots of interest in indoor recreation, huge state park with bike trails and between hoptown Ft Campbell and Clarksville enough population. It would not work in Memphis TN. No one is into the out doors, it's too dangerous to even ride your bike through most neighborhoods to leave the city due to gangs, the population with interest in this would be too small even though Memphis is TN 2nd largest city. I think this would work in Austin buy not Houston. Just depends.

[@GenericPurpleTurtle]

Rents In rew York are also crazy tho. If you follow louis rossman's channel, he did a lot of videos about him trying to find a larger space to rent to move his laptop fixing business into. Lots of places were charging $30k a MONTH for a medium sized shop space. If any shop can survive that I'm impressed.

[@joeottsoulbikes415]

@GenericPurpleTurtle rents here in Seattle are crazy too but in a very strange way. Residential rents here now for the median exceed NY. Commercial rents are all over the place depending on the building age condition and location. 1. Problem is buildings older than 15 years are almost completely gone now. Seattle taxes commercial land on highest possible use and not current use. So you could have a 100 year old building in need of some work but still usable as an art gallery, auto repair or something. But the city will take it as if it has a 44 story building with ground retail, 5 floors of office 38 stories of studio, 1bed, 2 bed and 3bwdroom condo and 5 levels of underground parking with a light rail stop connected. So you may only be able to rent it for $3k a month but your property taxes are $12k a month. It forces to owner to demolish and rebuild. 2. These new 43 story buildings are going for $250 to $500sf!!!!!!! Triple net lease. Meaning on top of rent you are responsible for all repairs inside and out as well as property tax for your units square footage plus any reserved parking. A 1,200sf retail spot on cap hill 2 miles from downtown will cost $ 35k to $50 k mo. Downtown $75 to $130k a freaking month. I found two spots to open up in for under $500mo 1st year, $1,000 2nd year and $ 1600 third year. No chance of them being torn down for at least 30 years. No rent increases that are crazy ever. Stable property tax because they are ties to historic register

[@jamescasteel8990]

As a new yorker I have to agree. The fact that he doesn’t need to do repairs because other store across the street can is a strong position to be in.

[@curtvaughan2836]

Who are the "big four"? Apparently Trek and Specialized are two of them. Who else? Cannondale perhaps? Inquiring minds want to know.

[@MHH3180]

And Giant

[@BezuFache3429]

He might not be one of the big four, but this shop owner is a big load

[@southpawmasonry]

Wait…. Capitalism DOESEN’T actually make you happy or a better businesses? This fella is inspirational to follow your instincts.

[@NewEnglandDirtRoadie]

the modern-day conventional bike shop is the most indescribably BORING and cringey experience conceivable. from product to personality.