Winchester Model 12 loading problem? Probably not.

Just showing other people who are new to the Winchester model 12 shotgun, that if you think it has a loading problem it is probably just because you assume it works like most other shotguns. I learned this the hard way, I took apart the gun completely to check for wear, and found none. Luckily I didn't buy replacement parts although I have heard of people who do, and still have the same "problem". Hope this helps.

[@spencercline7978]

Loading the model 12 can be tricky for newcomers with a little practice it's no problem at all mines 93 years old and shoots flawlessly one of the best shotguns ever made

[@neoprimato1959]

Thanks for the video. I just got my first Model 12 and had the same concern about the position of the shot shell next to be racked in. It looked to me like it was too far out of the mag tube and I was going to tear the gun down to solve a problem that was not a problem. You saved me a ton of time and frustration because taking mine apart and trying to reassemble it was an absolute nightmare, but I finally finessed the finicky gal to go back together. Your video was validated by the Larry Potterfield's Mode 12 cutaway video which is very informative too. Thanks again!

[@Stray03]

Glad to know it is useful to people. Very nice guns, and I enjoy shooting mine. Thanks for watching.

[@kodyvanatti6184]

I just bought an old Springfield 12 guage, thought it was broken because the way i had to load it and they didnt stay in the tube like my new shotguns. Just saved me from looking stupid at the gunsmith! Thank you

[@jacebigelow]

Thank you for making and posting your video ! I was trying to shoot trap with one of these today, and was unable to keep the shells in the magazine. I had a feeling it was operator error, so I just loaded the chamber directly with one shell prior to each shot. I'm glad your video clearly shows the proper position of the loaded shells with respect to the elevator. Cheers !!

[@Stray03]

Yeah it is an interesting way to keep the shells in place, really different from the standard you see today. Thanks for watching.

[@birdienfool]

Wow. Thanks for this. I just inherited my fathers model 12 made in 1949. Went to a range with some buddies with it and we thought there was a problem loading it. This tells me that there is not a problem, there just appeared to be and none of them knew about it either. Thank you!

[@Stray03]

No problem, enjoy the m12 they are fun to play with and are slamfireable too, so keep your finger off the trigger while pumping it lol. Thanks for watching.

[@yanim9578]

This is exactly what I was looking for after I thought I had an issue with my inherited model 12. Kind of frustrating loading shells, feels a bit rough and sometimes the shells pop out that are in the tube but the gun is otherwise a joy to use. Thanks for the video. Now I can sleep easy.

[@Stray03]

+Yani M After a while you will get used to loading it and you won't have them popping out anymore. Also you can check the mag tube for dirt or corrosion if it feels rough, then clean and lightly oil it so the follower slides freely. Thanks for watching.

[@rrover5357]

Same here, just got a Mod.12 dated 1917 at the GunShow yesterday, play around in the house and got all worry about reloading and the fact that I had to push forward on the slide to reopen! Your video is the only one that address this issue, thank you for that!

[@Stray03]

Glad it helped. When I first got a hold of it, the differences worried me, thought I would need to replace parts that were worn down, but when I looked at her I didn't see any wear, so I went looking for info on what these guns were supposed to act like. Browning had some very interesting firearms ideas. Thanks for watching.

[@brucelucas2006]

Thanks for this video, I bought a model 12 recently thought I had a dud, your video helped me greatly.

[@Stray03]

Enjoy that shotgun, they are nice shooters. Thanks for watching.

[@Stray03]

No problem. One of the things I love about the "original" pumps, you find all sorts of things that have been phased out for so long that people used to the modern stuff would never expect. The 97 and 12 pull forward, the remington 10's flapper assembly and striker, and the slam firing ability of a few of them, all interesting and original features/ideas that the stuff today doesn't even hint at.

[@edwardwilliams824]

I just bought a Winchester Model 25 (the non breakdown version of the 12) which has the same action. I too thought I had an Issue since I never loaded one before today, Thanks so much for posting this and saving me from looking like an idiot !!!!

[@Stray03]

Edward Williams no problem, glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching.

[@SuicideTurtleProd]

Your video helped me immensely, thank you so much! I've been working on some guns that were victims of the Broward County flood of 23 that happened in Florida last month. One of them was a Winchester model 12 16 gauge. I thought I had put it back together wrong but your video told me otherwise. Thanks again so much!!!

[@Stray03]

Glad it helped. And glad to see you saving them from being scrap.

[@urboydave9880]

Very Helpful. Just bought a Model 12 and thought I had a problem. Thanks for posting.

[@Stray03]

+David Hutchinson Glad it came in handy. Enjoy your new toy.

[@JohnKotch]

Thanks for posting this video. I have had this question quite a few times, now I just forward your video. To be honest it through me the first time I saw how this gun loaded too. I also took the gun apart and replaced the shell stop on the first one I have ever seen.

[@jasenboushie4922]

Thank You!... I am new to the model 12 and this was good news!

[@brettcox7941]

Thank you. Long time pump user. BPS, Model 37, 870. First time running the 12. I thought for sure it was malfunctioning.

[@joshcowart2446]

I noticed that as well. Mine worked once I let the catch pop back up so I didn’t worry about. It’s good to know that’s how they all are

[@rugerfarming2529]

very helpful thank you a lot . was wondering the same thing you answered in the video. thanks again

[@SuperMarshall2009]

Thanks for posting - I just got a new to me model 12 and used to the 97 Winchester - figured they would be the same.

[@Stray03]

+Hamlin_ sweganator Model 12 and a few guns like the one made by CIL are the only ones loaded this way. Interesting, but for most of us who are used to the catches, it feels "broken". Once you get used to it though it is actually a good system.

[@countersniper432]

Just came across one of these from '47 & thought it was jacked up lol. Thanks

[@ndt270]

I have a 1947 Model 12 my Dad gave me when I was starting out back in the '60's. He bought it new at Sears Roebuck when he came home from the war. I still hunt birds several times a week during the season, and it's my favorite shotgun. I had to replace an extractor a few years ago, but it is solid and smooth and will take me to the end of my days. Your's is a keeper!

[@phenixbound1]

THANK YOU. Worked on mine all day and was ready to take to Gunsmith. First one I ever had. Other Pumps I own are 870, 500's, High Standard and BPS so I was confused.

[@Stray03]

Yeah it is the only one I know apart from the copies that work that way

[@frankcassetta5145]

This is VERY helpful. I'm one of those idiots who thought I had a loading problem. Thanks!!

[@Stray03]

Yup I was one too. Took a while to figure it out.

[@rebelrobz]

Just pulled out my Mod 12 and I was thinking something is wrong. I figured the catch was worn due to its age. I also noticed that when you cycle a round into the chamber and fire ( i have snap caps) I have to pull forward just a bit after I pull the trigger for the pump to pull back down to cycle another round.

[@jurgenstroda6338]

that's the way it's supposed to work, the recoil of the gun automatically moves the the action forward.

[@reno145]

I am new to the Model 12 world and though my used 1936 vintage had some worn out parts. I hoped that it was just the design and all is well. You confirmed my suspicions. Thanks!

[@tereseheinen9632]

Thank-you. Please continue to make these information programs on all the old Winchester Guns(shotguns and rifles).

[@Stray03]

As I pick them up I put up videos on youtube. So hopefully I'll be getting a few more toys to open up and explain to others. Thanks for watching.

[@myothernamethatis]

Thank you! That explains my big question mark.

[@rekt6724]

Thank u so much man I thought my shottee was junk until this video and now I realize it feeds properly.

[@Stray03]

Glad it was saved from being wrapped around a pole. Lol

[@rekt6724]

@@Stray03 lmfao

[@mericanmudder9536]

Bro your a life saver I thought my gun was messed up ! Thank you

[@Stray03]

Glad it helped

[@Portuguese-linguica]

These are very nice guns . I have one my self with a 30" barrel tip to tip when off receiver . Ooo stray03 I have to move again .

[@eclectic3618]

Best shotguns ever made, tens of thousands of shells 100 years later still like new in functionality

[@williamsimler2699]

Thanks for the Info..... I thought something was wrong with mine till I watched this // inherited my Grandpa's ' 37 Model 12 that he bought in the depression for $ 25 with the Mutton leg hard leather case . Case and Gun are in 95 % condition ....

[@Stray03]

+william simler You inherited a nice shotgun, Take good care of her and she won't let you down. Glad the video helped. Thanks for watching.

[@adtube4186]

Thank you. Nailed it 100% as if this video was made for me. (She runs fine)

[@strattuner]

stray03 thank you for thank article on the shotgun,and the pics clearly shows how mine hows the shells till you move the slide,thanks again I appreciate it,we own the best scatter guns made guy,merry christmas

[@Stray03]

Yeah they are a very nice shotgun to use for some clay shooting, and unloading them when not shooting is a pleasure compared to the other popular ones. Merry Christmas to you too.

[@Stray03]

Yeah I thought it was an issue also, because I was used to the regular shotguns like the 870 and 500. Thanks for watching.

[@mikebeddingfield2144]

Yep and if you load it slow and sloppy you'll wind up with all the shells flying out at you or you'll pinch your finger in the loading gate lol. I have 2 model 12s a 57 and a 42 you got to love the slam fire ability they have as well.

[@sonnygunz9207]

I love my model 12 but unloading is a bit awkward till you get used to it. I prefer the model 1897’s loading and unloading procedure. It’s a lot like 870’s, 1200/1300 and 500/590’s. Your M12 looks to be in beautiful shape. Mine is solid but most of the blueing is gone. It’s sporting a chopped 18.75” barrel. I used the Brownells bead kit to thread and tap the barrel and add a large 6-48 brass bead.

[@rupertblanche2254]

There is a cartridge hold tang under the bolt face that holds the round until it is racked back.

[@Stray03]

Don't remember if the 12 has the spring in it, but I know the 97 requires you to pull forward to unlock it, (done automatically with recoil usually. I'd have to take my model 12 out again to see if she is the same,

[@kilroywuzhere1]

Just bought a Stevens 77... I was so close to bringing it to the gunsmith! Im used to 870's i thought something was wrong!

[@sonnygunz9207]

You DO NOT have to cycle the action to remove the shells from an 870/500/590/1200/1300.

[@elliotkramer7511]

I thought I had this exact problem but it turns out I had the 3 shot adapter plug in the magazine tube in the wrong end of the spring. I put the plug into the spring on the end of the magazine that was closest to where the shells go. It should have been placed into the spring on the end of the magazine tube near the end of the magazine tube where the screw is, not near where the shells load in. If you reference the users manual for the gun it shows a picture of this. After talking to several authorized Winchester gun smiths they all agreed that all shells should lock into place when you feed them into the tube. Hope that helps anyone with the same problem.

[@Rubengt303]

Thanks for the info. I thought i was missing something

[@redneckmini14]

I never thought there was a problem with mine. then again my model 12 was the first gun I ever owned so anything seemed normal to me. great shotgun. I now have an 1897 in the same gauge and they make a nice pair of shotguns.

[@Stray03]

Yeah my first was a Mossberg 500 so I assumed that the catch in the mag tube wasn't doing its job. When I figured it out I figured I'd make a video for others in my situation. I personally love the early repeating shotguns, Looking to finish collecting them, but so far I'm running a win 97, win 1901, rem 10, winchester model 12, a couple of ithacas and a rem model 31. All fun to shoot, and all with interesting mechanics to them.

[@redneckmini14]

Stray03 yeah all I have as far as pump actions go is my model 12 and 1897, both in 16 ga. great guns. my grandfather has a Remington model 10 that I hope to inherit one day. I also would like to try to find a Winchester model 42, which is a model 12 scaled down to 410, and an Ithaca 37.

[@Stray03]

redneckmini14 the 37's are nice guns, even my beat up one is a joy to shoot. model 42 sounds pretty interesting, I'd also like to find a Remington 17 but unfortunately people usually want more for them than I'm willing to spend.

[@rebelrobz]

Stray, yep, that is correct. I found it on AR15 forums last night. I verified it with my second Mod 12 also. Pulled this from the forum. See below. Thx for help. Another thing, if you dry fire it, and it is impossible to "rack" the slide back to cock the gun, this is normal. You have to push forward on the slide handle to "unlock" it so it can be pumped to the rear to cock the action and chamber a shell. The recoil of a fired shell does this automatically.

[@bestsniper45]

This helps me out a lot

[@wyboots]

Thanks!!!! never had a model 12 & yes I thought I had a problem, easy fix, just watch the video

[@Stray03]

Glad it kept you from buying parts you didnt need. Enjoy shooting it. They run nice and can fire like the ithaca and 1897

[@The762x39mm]

You dont need to cycle the action to unload magazine on Remington or Mossberg shotgun. Thoses are unloaded by pressing the cartridge stop with finger,allowing shells to pop out of the magazine.

[@Stray03]

Mossberg I'm able to do it but I have to clear the lifter and only one comes out at a time, the remington, tends to catch on the second catch, so the bolt has to be moved to get it to release. ( but you may know the trick that I don't.)

[@The762x39mm]

Indeed on the Mossberg,shell will only pop 1 at a time and yes the action must be closed to bring the lifter out of the way. I still prefer the Mossberg because nothing get in the way when loading the magazine,particulary usefull if you wear gloves. All that said, i wouldnt mind a model 12 in my collection.

[@Stray03]

Don't get me wrong I like my mossbergs and my 870's but there is something about the early repeaters that makes them interesting. 500's and 870's just incorporate the best ideas from those firearms.

[@HappyKemper]

Hello, I cannot get my magazine tube to turn...I am afraid to use too much force. Is there a spring or some other piece that needs to be manipulated after pin is pushed out? Thank you

[@Stray03]

No just open the breach. Make sure you are turning in the right direction. Add a bit of oil to the threaded area. May be sticky with old oil.

[@kaiviernes1112]

Okay, so you mentioned what my problem is in your video, but you didn't actually talk about it. I have a model 13. Basically, the catching mech isn't actually catching the shells, so when I try to load one, the other attempts to come out with it. This prevents me from bringing the forend forward to load the first shell. I took the whole bloody thing apart countless times, and the only progress I've made was discovering that when the forend comes back, the catch goes down, and stays down. Do you know how to fix this? Any help would be beyond appreciated, and I'd like to avoid taking my gun to a gunsmith if I can.

[@joshgomez313]

Thank you so much i thought i may have broken it or it was really used !!!

[@Stray03]

Yeah it is a strange design, but interesting. Thanks for watching.

[@birdienfool]

One other question: Being very unfamiliar with shotguns and maintenance practices, I believe after shooting it I need to do some kind of oiling or other maintenance because it probably wont be fired for quite some time again. What do you suggest?

[@Stray03]

Not that much, light cleaning and oiling if you are putting it away for a while, just to make sure nothing gives humidity a place to sit on te steel causing some surface rust. handling it can leave oils from your hands on steel which can also cause rusting so just wipe off all handling areas. Usually with new ammo you don't have to worry about cleaning too deeply unless you fires a few boxes of ammo through her or used it on a rainy or humid day.

[@vwncdude]

Model 12's rock Had one for 40 plus years.

[@870Slager]

Lol the description for this video perfectly explains what I just did. Oh well, I guess this is good news, can't wait to take her out to the range!

[@Stray03]

You'll enjoy it. Also just be warned the model 12 like the model 97 and the ithaca 37 don't have disconnectors. Holding the trigger back and pumping the gun closed will fire it.

[@870Slager]

Oh yeah, that's part of the reason I was so excited to have found one. I took it out today and was able to slam fire 7 rounds in under 3 seconds.

[@Stray03]

Yeah it is fun to play with, and unless you have an 8 round ithaca it is the "slam firing capable" shotgun with the most rounds that go in it. My 97 only holds 5 in the tube IIRC and the ithaca 4.

[@rock612on]

is there any modification that you can make to make it easier to load (i.e. the shells stay deeper in the mag tube and dont spit out when there's clearance?)

[@Stray03]

I find it would take away from the model 12 if you could, best to buy a model that does than to modify a nice rifle in the hopes that it will be easier. Enough practice and you won't have any problems loading her.

[@Sputtercunt]

Yeah i have a model 25 and its basically the same as a 12 and thats also how the shells stay in there but when i pump it the shell doesn't go to the chamber. I have to manually put it in the chamber each time.

[@Stray03]

So the lifter isn't moving when you push the slide forward?

[@Sputtercunt]

+Stray03 yeah it moves but the shell seems to be stuck. I sometimes have to open the chamber and get the shell out of that certain area.

[@Sputtercunt]

Stray03 It might need cleaning in that area. It would be easier to demonstrate the problem than explain it. Thanks for the help though. My first problem was wondering where the shell locking was and this video helped with that.

[@B_And_T_Gaming]

This helped me so much😂

[@storminthewoods]

I just bought a used one works great 👍

[@storminthewoods]

Got that an a 30 cal 1906 f.lefever brothers for 300 dollars look up blue book on the 30 cal 1906

[@mahtoe]

Have mod. 25 looks same. Having double loading probs. Any tips?

[@Stray03]

Im thinking you have an issue wth the piece that holds the next shell in the tube when you cycle the action. Give her a good clean, if it continues then check the piece for wear, damage or improper installation. From there inspect the bolt where it interacts with that piece.

[@Stray03]

Yeah beautiful gun, but it's a pain to work on.

[@davidrowan4376]

I have a winchester model 1200 but the thing is it doesn't come apart like any of the ones I've seen on you tube mine just unscrewed from the magazine tube it doesn't have the pin like all the others I've seen on you tube anyone else have one like this

[@Stray03]

Model 12 and 1200 are two different beasts, 1200s come apart like modern shotguns (870, 500) where as the model 12 works like the 97s and other early shotguns.

[@markc6207]

Yup thats how they work

[@christianwalker7895]

Ur not the only 1st time owner/user...i also feel like an idiot but times r wat they r

[@johnh6561]

It makes it easy to empty the mag without needing to cycle the action. The Model 12 isn't as idiot friendly as modern pumps. The slide release on the back of the trigger guard and the safety on the front is how all pump action guns should be. The 2nd thing I noticed about my M12 is how natural it is to take the safety off as you shoulder the gun. The 1st thing I noticed is how much better this gun naturally points than a 870 or 500 with the same LOP. Having the safety at the front of the trigger guard might be a little easier to have the safety come off by accident vs in the back.. Don't rely on a safety, or hang around people who do.

[@Stray03]

+John H Good advice, I don't keep my gun loaded unless i'm about to shoot, or if I'm hunting small game. I never count on the safety, and regardless of if it is on or not, I will keep the hollow end of the gun pointed in a safe direction lol.

[@mikefleming3571]

+Stray03 i actually bought a model 12-20 gauge today. One of the owners had soldered a silver dime to the safety for easy disengagement with gloves. It had also come with a polychoke which is pretty cool. Can't wait to shoot it.

[@Stray03]

+Mike Fleming Nice getting the 20 gauge version. Hope she works well. and I hope the dime will come off lol.

[@camronrapp4146]

I literally hear a loose part in the tube when I tip the gun back and forth so I'm fairly certain something is up with mine

[@Stray03]

Is it blocked at 3 rounds?

[@camronrapp4146]

@@Stray03 Yes actually, can't get a third shell in after 2 are in

[@Stray03]

Migratory bird hunting set up. They put a dowel in the tube. That is probably what is moving around.

[@camronrapp4146]

@@Stray03 Ahhh I see, is it easily removed?

[@Stray03]

Yeah. Same way you remove follower and spring. Just don't go hunting duck or goose without it.

[@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts]

Tried it if I load 4 rounds in it pops out two when I pump it

[@Stray03]

Your first catch probably is having issues. Is it a dirty shotgun?

[@sethwalton2008]

Thanks U

[@danielgoodman3578]

Thank you! :)

[@Stray03]

No problem

[@donutdebacle3614]

My first round does not stay in the tube like yours. Is something wrong with mine?

[@Stray03]

No nothing wrong with it.

[@donutdebacle3614]

Well that's a relief. But why does your first shell stick forward like that though? I can't seem to find any other info on it.

[@Stray03]

It is catching on the first part of the protrusion from the bolt which it can do but not going to stay there, The first one due to lower spring pressure sticks but can be jarred loose,if second round is put in it will slip over it and sit where it is supposed to sit.

[@donutdebacle3614]

Ah, that makes sense. I just picked up a 1927 solid rib M12 and assumed they would all do that. Thanks for the help, you seem to know your stuff!

[@Stray03]

You can still find the manual for these shotguns on certain websites, in the loading section it shows the proper placement of the rounds. Mine just catches the first round if I place it in just the right way. Afterwards the spring pressure gets too heavy for it to hold.

[@carl27890]

i noticed that the first time i tried 3 shells in my dads now mine 1955 model 12 till i said fuck it and tried firing

[@jstingray]

Now let me tell you something funny. I've had a model 12 for YEARS... I have NEVER noticed this until recently. I researched what the problem might be... No problem, I've just been using it properly for the last oohhhh 20 years.

[@Stray03]

Lol. Yeah I believe it i think when people come from models like the 870 and 500 that they tend to have more issues with these. If you started on one or been using the older shotguns it is just "normal".

[@skigdividerx4991]

The notch on the bottom of the bolt holds the next round until you cycle the action. The model 12 is a poor design. Everybody thinks just because a gun says Winchester or Remington on it it's a great gun. A Ithaca model 37 or Stevens 520-620 or J.C. Higgins model 20 are all far superior to the Model 12.

[@Shamel3ss5]

Been watching this since 2012 trying to finish man damn. Whats eith the 4 minute pauses between each word 😂 never been annoyed With…… The……. Way someone………. Says……. Their…….. Sen……. Tences……

[@Stray03]

There is a speed button on KZbin. You can set it at 2x if it bothers you that much

[@flowshine74]

Hahaha!! For real bro!! I seriously thought I was the only one!! you freakin nailed it!! Perfect comment!! Dude said you can watch it 2x speed if you don't like it! hilarious! This dude should try watching some tutorial with some slow minded sob talking at a third the speed as everyone else and see how bizarre and annoying it is!

[@flowshine74]

Bro, you really need to settle down! Way to much excitement for me!!

[@Stray03]

Yeah I know. So I calmed down the newer videos. Wouldn't want people to get anxiety.

[@sportsman9971]

Grandma was slow but she was 96..

[@band1236]

The bullet cannot be jammed, this way of loading is too inconvenient

[@popoaggie]

Your gun, your video, your room, so you can do what you want, but it looked like your safety was off when filming this video.

[@Stray03]

Yes it probably was I don't use the safety unless hunting with a chambered round, although I find it funny you noticed that and not the gun never having a live round in the chamber. Safeties are never to be trusted, and they only really matter on a chambered round.

[@neosteeled001]

Useful video, but I would have been happier if you had used snap cap rounds instead of live ones.

[@Stray03]

neosteeled001 Yeah a lot of people would, I don't have any actually, you may notice I avoid chambering them when I do use live ammo.

[@Sputtercunt]

i gotta model 25 and its doing the same shit

[@steveblack860]

sold it to me

[@strattuner]

as a matter of fact your weapon is out of adjustment,and needs attention,pay attention,i have in my possession a brand damn new 1958 model 12 left to me by my dad,and it doesn't do what yours does,i've cleaned it since I was a child,and this is the finest shotgum ever made,good enough for the law enforcement including the fbi to use,they are designed to load quickly and efficiently in the dark,get yours fixed,find a real gunsmith and enjoy

[@Stray03]

stevespages.com/pdf/winchester_12.pdf

[@jamesporld6967]

Can you talk any slower?

[@flowshine74]

seriously! he's losing me talking so fast!!

[@Stray03]

The 2x speed option on KZbin exists. Not worth remaking these videos since they are for specific issues that only a few people have.

[@JavierLopez-db4xe]

Seems like a bad design