Window on the Earliest Buddhism? The Chapter of the Eights

[@DougsDharma]

🧡 If you find benefit in my videos, consider supporting the channel by joining us on Patreon and get fun extras like exclusive videos, ad-free audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂 📙 You can find my new book here: books2read.com/buddhisthandbook

[@grndragon7777777]

Good way to gain merit

[@grndragon7777777]

Is there any way to do a one time donation rather than a membership?

[@Avida-l7s-instrumental]

Thanks for your video Doug 🙂 I disagree with you when your say that Dougmatism isn’t good, I like it lol. Thanks a lot

[@DougsDharma]

@@grndragon7777777 There is a link to PayPal that works for one-time donations. 🙏

[@alakso777]

IMHO this is one of your best videos Doug. I may have mentioned this in my comments to other videos but I only have a 9th grade education with a GED so a lot of the time I struggle with finding the right words to express myself. But I do understand not self so I try and not take things personally. I hope in our discussions about Buddhadasa that I don’t come across as harboring or expressing ill will towards anyone. I also understand how hard it is to converse about the Dhamma using this format as opposed to sitting down and having a flowing conversation in person. PS: I’ll try and find the follow up to this video to expand my understanding of the Dhamma. With Metta 🙏🏼

[@xiaomaozen]

_The Chapter of Eights_ is an impressive text. I've read Gil Fronsdal's translation, and it had a remarkable impact on my practice. But I'm not a scholar and therefore cannot say if the "Buddha-before-Buddhism-idea" is tenable or not. So I'm looking forward to your video about it... Thanks for your splendid work! 😀🙏

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure, xiao mao! The video on Gil's book will be out soon ... 😊

[@marylee8372]

Thank you for your generous videos explaining so many of the teachings that I haven't been able to find elsewhere. Up until now I have stuck with Theravada Buddhism teachings believing that they are closer to the Buddha's actual teachings than the Mahayana teachings. I am delighted that you are going back even further than contemporary Theravada to some early texts and hints of texts or teachings that may have predated the Theravada - Mahayana split.

[@DougsDharma]

My pleasure, Mary. Glad you're finding the videos useful! 🙏

[@marylee8372]

@@DougsDharma Yes, very useful. I came across your site only a week ago but have continued to watch one video after another. I really appreciate your scholarly approach and explanations citing texts.

[@otorishingen8600]

What an interesting chanel 👌

[@DougsDharma]

Thank you kindly!

[@antainmaclochlainn1457]

Fascinating as always, Doug. It strikes me that this stripped-down teaching brings Buddhism even closer to Hellenistic philosophies like Epicureanism and Stoicism which are similarly focussed on non-attachment.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes there are definite similarities, however there are also some pretty significant differences around non-self for example.

[@antainmaclochlainn1457]

@@DougsDharma That's true. Although Stoicism has something close to non-self in one context at least. In Letter 20, when offering consolation on mortality and our certain death, Seneca points out that incarnations of ourselves die all the time: the infant me, the boyhood me etc: 'We lose our childhood, then our boyhood, and then our youth.' And again, in Letter 58: This is just what Heraclitus says: "We go down twice into the same river, and yet into a different river." For the stream still keeps the same name, but the water has already flowed past. Of course this is much more evident in rivers than in human beings. Still, we mortals are also carried past in no less speedy a course; and this prompts me to marvel at our madness in cleaving with great affection to such a fleeting thing as the body, and in fearing lest some day we may die, when every instant means the death of our previous condition. Will you not stop fearing lest that may happen once which really happens every day?' In his book 'Emotion and Peace of Mind', Richard Sorabji speculates that there might be a direct Buddhist influence here. 'Indeed, the Buddhist ideas feature in a dialogue in Pali, The Questions of Milinda, between a Buddhist monk and a Greek ruler, Melander, who is dated to the second century BC (although the work itself contains earlier borrowings and later accretions). (:246) He goes on to state that the 'discontinuous selves' of Stoicism is something of an outlier. 'It is as if Seneca and Plutarch had heard the argument, but did not know how to integrate it into their systems.' (:247)

[@TheWayOfRespectAndKindness]

Interesting read. Thanks for bringing it to my attention 🙏🏼

[@DougsDharma]

Glad to help! 🙏

[@DamiDoria]

Amazing! Thank you, Doug!

[@knabbob]

Thank you -bob

[@trinp.6334]

(Edited) Brilliant vdo. I revisit the chapter of eights because of your video and I am grateful for the insight and the attitude that you shared to others. What might be of your interest is the book of Niddesa that Bhikkhu Bodhi included in his magnificent translation. In there we would be able to see somewhat practice of exegesis on the chapters of eights. This practice I believe have ways to bring out some extra meanings and introduce ways that the reciter or the hearer can relate themselves to the Sutta. Crazy musing: If we assume that the last pitaka develops itself after the time of the Buddha, this could (in Patisambhida, Niddesa) could be its precursor to the practice. After the Bhikkhus comply all the key characteristics into the Matikas. Interestingly the Niddesa covers the Attakavagga, Parayanavagga and Rhinoceros Horn Discourse.

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks, Trin. 🙏

[@Wonderwall36]

Beaches in the Bahamas are wonderful, Doug, end of argument....

[@DougsDharma]

😄😄 I agree!

[@photistyx]

Since watching your video on "Tathagata," I have been poking around in Jainism and it's interesting how the two causes of disputes you point to here (disagreement about what is pleasurable and disagreement over possession) are squarely within the scope of two of the core teachings of Jainism (anekantavada and aparigraha). It seems possible that these were concerns that were of general interest at the time.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, I think they were also within the scope of the early Upaniṣadic teachings as well. It was in the air.

[@billybutcher6504]

Sir, I really appreciate ur work that you are gifting us the treasure of knowledge regarding to Buddhism. Well, BTW today on 14th April is a Birth Anniversary of the Brilliant Jurist, politician, economist, social reformist, anthropologist, polymath, polyglot, An epitome of equality and Women Empowerment, the Godfather of India, Father of Indian Constitution, The greatest Indian, One of the greatest intellectuals of all time, Symbol of knowledge, NO.1 Scholar in the world, Revivalist of Buddhism in India, Bodhisattva DR BHIM RAO AMBEDKAR. Wish u all happy (World knowledge day and the Equality day) on the Jayanti of DR BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR. JAI BHIM! NAMO BUDDHAY!

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@anticreationist7959]

Toiletwadi bheemte are leaking in here eww

[@billybutcher6504]

@@anticreationist7959 U irrationalist, castist, misogynist and so do criminal cast people are freaking covetous of Ambedkarites coz of our growth, prosperity, eudaimonicalness and that also we are debunking u at every step, so ur concern to save ur fakeness.😂😂 The question must be for u that Why people like u who countered the Buddhist revolution in India came here to a secular Buddhist channel?? U Don't be worried about Buddhism coz after DR AMBEDKARS revival of Buddhism in India, Buddhism would never slacken off and dissipate again, but instead it would disseminate. People like u must be concern of urself that any castist nature of ur which is ur bonafide innate quality can make u incarcerated by my BABAS law!!!😂 So, the reason why u hate DR BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR is coz he gave rights to those people who were historically denied rights and now those same people are receiving high level of education and getting well organised, which castist people like u can't cope, so u are livid, infuriated and immensely penitent of our success and accomplishments. But, I won't abuse u for that coz I'm pretty equanimous and I consider my master to be the Buddha and Bodhisattva DR AMBEDKAR, so I would say thanks to u by proving urself who you are and also laying testament of the foundation ur religion which is discriminatory, detesting, resentful, and which promotes cast. Coz hindu is an exyonm, it's a geographical identity, the word hindu actually first appeared in 17th cen and before that there was no hinduism, there was cast and people used to get recognized by their cast and not by their religion. The word hindu is nothing but mere amalgamation of cast, without cast there is no hinduism, so I understand why u are getting so castist.😂 Anyways, if u want to flex of ur criminal cast then this is not a right place coz in Buddhism there is no cast (what so ever)! So, the question supposed to be for you that what castist people like you are doing here? But, I won't ask this question to u coz in Buddhism we don't discriminate and hate people on the basis of their cast, creed, gender, race or anything such as that. Buddhism is is castless, hateless, and inclusive implausible to ur religion by brother. Anyways, I'm happy that an Indian came and read my comments coz for me we are all Indians, but perhaps for u this won't be the case. Anyways, "We are Indians firstly and lastly"-DR BHIM RAO AMBEDKAR. JAI BHIM!💙💙💙 NAMO BUDDHAY!😊

[@saralamuni]

If this exists, that exists; if this ceases to exist, that also ceases to exist. Like leaves blown by the wind of pratītyasamutpāda, with each moment of thought, we are reborn in one of the six realms of samsara. Bewildered and confused by our ignorance, we are blind to the obvious truth that everything we perceive as being real is nothing but the perceptions of our own mind, we cling to this and that, and our suffering seems real to us. Then the Tathāgata appears, brilliant like the sun and adorned by the 32 marks, with a voice deep and resonant: Wake up! It's all in your head!

[@Nooneself]

FINALLY!!!!. a KZbin site that presents what in my own belief system on Buddhism, is the most factually historic version of Buddhism . We do not need massive conflicting Buddhist texts to understand the Buddha full teachings. The Book of Eight is the Christian equivalent of the the Gnostic gospel of Thomas. Well Done 🖖

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@NicholasVettese]

Having been reading books and many suttas, I have come to find your channel and am very appreciative of your work. I would love to know if you know of any sites or groups that meet throughout the United States, in person, that I may start to work on myself and understand more about what we are to be doing. I live in NJ, outside of Philadelphia, and would love to meet others and work. Thank you sir

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks Nicholas. I don’t know of any offhand besides say Insight/Vipassana centers or Zen if that interests you.

[@NicholasVettese]

@@DougsDharma thank you for the response. I have been practicing Zen methods of meditation at home, and would love to know if you know of anything in the Southern NJ or Philadelphia area.

[@mybackgroundsoundaccount4125]

Hello Doug. I have searched your website for a way to buy the book physically, as I do not care for digital books, but could not find a way within reasonable pricing (Amazon having it in the paperback section for 20$ is all I did end up finding). Do you have a link to a site where I can buy it physically within a reasonable price range? Thank you!

[@jonwesick2844]

Is this Chapter of Eights the one in the Numerical Discourses?

[@DougsDharma]

No, it’s part of the Sutta Nipāta. (I know, it can be quite confusing).

[@minhacontaize]

Hey Doug. The problem of evil in the world is driviing me nuts. Even if I not believing in God frees me from blaming her, when i see suffering in the world i resent life as a cruel purposeless game.

[@DougsDharma]

Well think of it as an expression of the First Noble Truth.

[@minhacontaize]

@@DougsDharma Thank you Doug. It is just that the view of the world as a pit of suffering from which we try to escape (the suffering) is pretty depressing and revolting to me. What do you think of the Vedanta idea that we are adventurers in a mission of rediscovering our divine / Buddha nature?

[@grndragon7777777]

Hey Doug I have a question. What does the text say about everyone waking up? Like what happens, or will there be a human race, or even any living beings. Thank you

[@DougsDharma]

The texts don’t discuss such a possibility.

[@grndragon7777777]

@@DougsDharma They don't discuss what happens when death and rebirth is completely broken by everyone? Just to be clear.

[@grndragon7777777]

@@DougsDharma I understand you only deal with the secular parts. But I can't find this information anywhere.

[@DougsDharma]

I don't think the Buddha ever thought of this as a possibility. At least to my knowledge it's never mentioned in the texts.

[@SunsetHoney615]

If we just let go of our commitment to a particular view, then won’t we just be allowing others to trample over us?

[@DougsDharma]

Well just think of how the Buddha did it. He didn’t let people trample all over him, though he had no attachment to views. This didn’t mean he didn’t argue for them, he simply didn’t take them personally.

[@SunsetHoney615]

@@DougsDharma Thanks Doug. Hope things are coming together for you smoothly as you plan to rebuild 🙏

[@ausdiato1794]

Hi Doug, are you a secular Buddhist?

[@DougsDharma]

I did a video on my own approach: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4XbfJqwbbKYjck

[@nicholasg9804]

Is there any way to reach out to you directly and have a conversation with you? I would like to ask you some questions about Buddhism but don't necessarily want to share it at this moment

[@hemendrasahu7943]

Hi Doug. It's really out of the context of this video but I always wanted to know which brand shirts you wear? They look very awesome to me.

[@Avida-l7s-instrumental]

I feel so empty.

[@titussteenhuisen8864]

I am looking for a book dealing with the beginning of Tibets Buddhism. Can you give a title author? The time of Padmasambhava and Yeshe there was a rape and a man send away out the country. I like to know all there is about this man. In western literature I found the name scarface. The man had a large scar on his face originally from fighting later a symbol for his aggression, he has a very powerful mind influencing people (karma) from a distance. I (66 years old) have important reincarnation energies and this man plays a big role in my life, he copied the rape into this time. Like to understand the hate and actions from this man.

[@reverseswastikass2103]

Buddhism is formula to maintain highest level of civilization without hurting mother earth. First understand how Panchasil works. Buddha chose bhikhkhu life when you have all data of universe and you treate yourself as begger then no chance of anger and hatred comes to you Only reason for decay of budhdhism in india is Lord Shiva notorious son of bhikhkhu budhdha Messiah born four year after his father's death how it is possible his rule book is holy. बुध्ध ग्यान मिलनेके बाद घर छोड भिख्खु बन फिरते है.

[@MassiveLib]

Buddha was a Daoist deep down... 🤔🤣