Athlean-X DISMANTLES Lengthened Partials? (Exercise Scientist Reacts)

In this video Dr Milo Wolf reacts to ‪@athleanx‬'s latest take on lengthened partials.
References:
1. Jeff's video: • The Death of Face Pull...
2. pubmed.ncbi.nl...
3. pubmed.ncbi.nl...
4. journal.iusca....
5. www.ncbi.nlm.n...
👇🏼 Get 12 FREE programs at my website!
wolfcoaching.c...
Follow us on socials for more:
• 📸 Wolf Coaching Instagram: / wolfcoaching_
• 💥 TikTok: / wolfcoaching
• 💻 Milo's Instagram: / wolfcoach_
If you enjoyed this video, please drop a like and SUBSCRIBE to the channel for more!
💻 Editing & Thumbnail provided by: / blackboxmediaofficial
#athleanx #reaction #hypertrophy
"Athlean-X DISMANTLES Lengthened Partials? (Exercise Scientist Reacts)"
Music from Uppbeat.
Business Enquiries: [e-mail]

[@GVS]

I know it's a hypothetical example but 2 inches on your arm in 12 weeks is a WILD place for the brain to jump to.

[@thephilifluffy1838]

Maybe if you turbobulked and got really fat 😂

[@brandonreed3670]

Idk manic Jeff once claimed it was possible to increase bicep circumference by an inch in 3 weeks, so 2 in 12 weeks is actually pretty modest for him 😂

[@shazor5775]

You initially measure without pump.

[@martingamer5591]

On top of that, the way he writes off 10% additional gains is a brazen display of mathematical ignorance. If you implement a method that nets you 10% extra growth year after year, that will compound into an astronomical end result.

[@shazor5775]

@@martingamer5591 muscles don't grow infinitely. So you will grow 12 weeks less. 1 inch maybe ;-)

[@jusducks07]

No human should ever say the phrase "you probably aren't watching enough KZbin fitness."

[@karlsmith9186]

No human should ever say the phrase "you probably aren't watching enough KZbin"

[@chaosreggie6984]

Clearly it went over your head bc you lack extrapolation skills. He’s dissing getting information from TikTok fitness

[@anonymousman4419]

​@@chaosreggie6984 That's a narrative you pulled out of thin air.

[@Hawaii567]

Most people don’t watch enough high quality KZbin fitness. Problem is quantity its quality. All of these comments are ridiculously stupid

[@JTD472]

@@Hawaii567it’s supposed to be 1g of high quality videos per pound of body weight, right?

[@Himhymn_]

My favorite part is that you site your sources in the description, including athelean-x. Although i dont typically like Jeff's methodologies, referencing the material + the research hits just right. Thanks Milo!

[@alanh7247]

cite != site

[@brebium7715]

everybody is so obsessed with doing the optimal rep of the most optimal exercise that nobody just lifts for fun any more. i think the fun factor is important as it is what keeps u coming back to the gym and consistency is key

[@HisNameIsTater]

Wait, the gym is supposed to be fun?

[@LeanAndMean44]

100 %, I’m not setting up some weird optimal cable bench thing with optimal force vectors or smth just for someone to rightfully complain I could train my back or whatever with a normal exercise. I do rows because it feels amazing. Simple exercise, easy to set up and it trains many muscles in the back compared to some one arm shit I’m referencing Dr. Mike’s latest collab with Eric Janicki and obviously a bodybuilder on gear should be training optimally. By far the most nuance I’ve ever heard someone give about what kind of lifter you are with what kind of goals etc, my understanding is he just recommends compound exercises for the average person obviously using a full ROM for injury prevention etc. but not anything too nerd about what exercise is the best yet if it even will have any noticeable effect on you personally that would take months or years to reveal itself

[@gasparsigma]

I'm jealous of people who have consistent fun at the gym. I have some lucky days but I'd rather be doing literally anything else if I could get the same gains 😅

[@brebium7715]

@@gasparsigma u could try adding calisthenics to spice it up

[@Flahtort]

It's quite interesting for me personally to see my personal growth in understanding that field. I remember when in 2016 or something like this I used to do just super cheated pullups, pushups and couple movements every day because i was only starting, watch translation of AtleanX to my native language and thought that he is an expert. And now, many years past, I doing lengthened partials elevated heal squad, still do some pullups, but full ROM and slow escentric and no cheating, and I know english and watch people like you, Milo. Makes me feel better knowing that i'm making progress as a person and educate myself.

[@Not-Lunar]

When are we getting the best beard exercises for facial hair Hypertrophy?

[@mattc4266]

Genetics

[@WolfCoaching]

10x10 select appropriate parents (bonus if this makes it difficult for commenters to guess your country of origin like myself)

[@pillemcphilsen8529]

@@WolfCoaching Considering my mom's facial hair, my beard should be thicker then.

[@dragoph]

minoxidil and derma rolling

[@mattc4266]

@@dragoph that’s for ppl who can’t grow beards due to low test

[@stevenzak199]

I think you may be slightly mischaracterizing Jeff's point when you say that he suggests "do everything." A possibly better characterization would be: "exclude nothing." For instance, doing a dumbbell lateral raise isn't going to allow as big a stretch in the lengthened position as a cable lateral (since you can't get in as much of a lengthened position), but it's still a great exercise, particularly if what you mostly have access to is dumbbells, and even if you have access to machines. No need to exclude it out of obsessive fealty to the stretch or to lengthened partials. Jeff also added another important perspective that you didn't address, namely, that assuming a 5-10% increase is possible through lengthened partials over full ROM, that doesn't mean that your muscle will be 5-10% bigger. It means your GAINS could be 5-10% greater. It's the difference between gaining an inch on your arms, say from 16 to 17 inches, versus gaining 1.05 - 1.1 inches on your arm: so going from 16 to 17.05 or 17.1. Your arm won't be 5-10% bigger; you'll just have a slightly bigger gain. Instead of a 17-inch arm, you'll have, optimistically, a 17.1-inch arm. That's not to say that that extra increase isn't worth pursuing, just that it isn't worth obsessing over to the point that you exclude anything that you think doesn't give you that slight extra gain, no matter the potential benefit of what you're excluding. That was his point, and I think it's well taken.

[@NekoJet91]

It's difficult to see Jeff as "exclude nothing" guy when he's singlehandedly responsible for the fearmongering era of youtube fitness, when everyone (including myself) knew that behind the neck pulls, presses and upright rows are spawn of snapcity satan

[@FilmFlam-8008]

Your own statements are contradictory to Athelene X’s. He uses incorrect, and unscientific “fear mongering” to say things are more efficient and effective. Straight up he said lengthened partials are not as effective as full ROM. This is not supported scientifically. He is wrong. Period. Regardless of the little factoids in the mix. That’s like saying there are some really nice looking kernels of corn in the pile of dog crap.

[@MeTooMan]

But the science!

[@DCJayhawk57]

Jeff's entire brand is built upon keeping n00bs in the beginner stage so they don't learn enough to stop buying into his nonsense. There are enough exposé videos about Jeff at this point that show how little he actually knows about exercise science and exercise in general, at least compared to how he portays himself. I think he's an irrelevant hack, personally. Nothing about what he teaches is remotely athletic, or will get you jacked. But that isn't really what he wants anyway.

[@deltalima6703]

TLDR

[@chaosreggie6984]

Jeff has been talking about partials in the lengthened position for a long time he just never used the phrase “long lengthened partials” he speaks on eccentric overloading with a focus on the stretch and staying in that range for growth.

[@ska4dragons]

But don't forget Wolf Coaching point! Jeff only talks about eccentric. He says nothing about the legentened concentric. Because jeff is magical and can just skip past the concentric portion of the motion.

[@matthewwhite876]

Jeff also doesn't grow and hasn't in well over 10yrs I wouldn't watch athlene x if you paid me with ppl like seth, Eric and Mike out there in the youtube world

[@chaosreggie6984]

@@matthewwhite876 Jeff goal is to maintain his muscle and leanest as he ages. Nobody expects him to gain even 2lbs of muscle a year at his age and he uses no enhancing drugs so bad argument on your part.

[@matthewwhite876]

@@chaosreggie6984 lols all of the lols

[@FalseF4CZ]

@@ska4dragonsYou do realize Wolf is talking about the eccentric range of motion too right? Both are talking about the eccentric (muscle is stretched) portion and neither are talking about concentric. Also concentric lengthened doesn’t make sense because both cannot exist at the same time.

[@user-he4ef9br7z]

"Lengthened partials" don't even feel like words anymore.

[@19DannyBoy65]

Semantic satiation is crazy

[@xyoungdipsetx]

@@19DannyBoy65what u mean?

[@19DannyBoy65]

@@xyoungdipsetx Semantic satiation is when you hear a word repeated so many times that you temporarily stop perceiving it as a word and it just becomes a weird meaningless sound, which seems to be the phenomenon being described by the parent comment.

[@LeanAndMean44]

They’re a law, a dogma, a lifestyle, so much more than words

[@turntablesrockmyworld9315]

Actually, give or take a few details, I think Jeff's thinking here is spot-on and I agree with him on most points

[@_MrTV]

Yeah I left jeff's orb years ago when I noticed the fear mongering he tended to do. Glad he's turning it aroundish lol

[@user-he4ef9br7z]

For me it was the fake plates and facepulls. Facepulls are a dogshit exercise.

[@BrofUJu]

​@@user-he4ef9br7zI think they're pretty good for shoulder health, but he's had tons of shoulder issues. Not really sure for building upper back lol

[@noneyabusiness3253]

@@BrofUJuI think it depends how you do them, I personally stretch my upper back out as much as possible when doing them and I’ve definitely gotten a sore mid back from them.

[@BrofUJu]

@@noneyabusiness3253 fair. I think had position might matter a bit too. I like keeping it more in my fingers so it's tons of rear delt, and higher reos

[@noneyabusiness3253]

@@BrofUJu ya I don’t do them as squeeze focused and athlean x would recommend, he’s all about getting as contracted on it as possible if I remember correctly and extending your arms back far, I do fairly high reps but I don’t worry about the squeeze so much.

[@codyypeng]

Im gonna play devils advocate against Lengthened Partials here muahaha. I 100% love milo's content and I do believe Lengthened Partials is great for hypertrophy. But that being said, context matters. Enjoyability of an exercise and adherence to the exercise plays a very important factor too. If you do not like the long length partial version of the exercise and you do not like that style of training you do not have to do it. Most people are not competing for bodybuilding. They just wanna looked jacked and if you enjoy doing spider curls over incline curls and that gets you in the gym more then do spider curl. If you love face pulls (which is jeff's fetish, I swear the man cant go a gym day without facepulls and may need to see a psych), do it. Enjoying an exercise is a great reason to keep it in your program even if it is not optimal.

[@tomjones8235]

Full ROM gives me an end point and reduces complication. I don't have to think about where the partial ends; I just think about getting the weight up with proper form.

[@Auctoritatis2]

@@tomjones8235 Complication? Complicated moves are gymnastics and street dance, your brain is lazy as....

[@kwerby3285]

There are also other indicators for muscle growth. Burn/metabolites/MMC and pump are also related to hypertrophy. I think while a facepull can’t be done with a lengthened emphasis, i recommend someone try them and your rear delts will feel on fire.

[@Behindthejab]

@@kwerby3285the burn and pump don’t really have hard data to back them up.

[@MHNK77]

Yes, of course. What you're saying is very true Obviously there's a hierarchy of principles here Consistency > technique > intensity > volume > exercise selection (here's where lenghtened partials come in play) So obviously, if by adding lengthened partials you start to neglect the other more important principles, then you have to rethink your training

[@jdh8931]

Tension can be transformed into tensile stress (force/area). Basically, each square inch of the cross section of a cable or muscle assumes some of the tensile load. At lengthened positions, then tensile stress is increased. So while tension doesn't technically increase, tensile stress does. This likely translates to higher forces on each muscle fiber as each slice along the length of the muscle has to have the exact same force as the rest of the muscle, but now each slice of the muscle intersects with less total muscle. This obv assumes equal moment arms and weight at the diff parts of the lift.

[@mediocrelifter950]

Its true, jeff is right and dr milo wolf is coping. I used to struggle to deadlift 5 plates, but within 3 months of doing face pulls, i now deadlift the world record. Cheers c*n*s

[@tomjones8235]

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc?

[@mediocrelifter950]

@@tomjones8235 ye

[@michaelsell6928]

Hahahahaha

[@tomjones8235]

@@michaelsell6928 It essentially means “it followed a thing, therefore it was caused by that thing” (and yes, I misspelled “propter). In this case, mediocrelifter950 did three months of face pulls and now he deadlifts the world record, so the world record deadlift was caused by the facepulls. I am sure that mediocrelifter950’s comment was meant in good humor. Mine was as well.

[@MHNK77]

but was it real weight or fake plates tho?

[@FitOneswithVarun]

Think we are going to get a full album

[@WolfCoaching]

Might just drop the hardest evidence-based album of the year 🔥

[@berserker4940]

Good video. I think Jeff agrees and understands that the lengthened partial in a specific exercise where it can be used will give more hypertrophy than full range of motion. He doesn't dispute that in a controlled scientific setting. Jeff's response was to a random commenter who was trying to design an entire training program around exercises that ONLY use the lengthened partial. So you two were talking past each other.

[@GVS]

All I know is that short muscle lengths can get the knife.

[@rahulchangmai3123]

Hey.. in some countries they can be average muscle lengths!! 😡

[@ericmalitz]

He’s right about the “weak links” perspective; it’s about structural balance. He basically fumbles over himself trying to say it’s not all about short term hypertrophy gains, but about using something like the facepull to facilitate longevity.

[@richshrimp7680]

Both provide great points. Grab the knowledge and just do what works best for you.

[@svendragon8139]

Upright row partials would feel like the biggest cop-out.

[@samalmond2321]

I wanna see Milo cover Alex Bromley as he has been vwry outspoken against the scientific literature in the past on muscle building.

[@user-vj8qm3qc2k]

As a physio I would like to inform on jeff's claim "Corrective" exercises that prevent injuries and "correct posture" is not supported by evidence and its not a term that most evidence based clinicians use. Any exercise can be identified as "Corrective" and posture is not due to tight or weak muscles ( this has been debunked).......posture is affected way more by psychosocial factors like depression and anxiety and can be corrected just by you being more mindful about it. No Corrective exercise is needed.....just any form of exercise can help

[@michaelsiemasko9395]

Love seeing this, but people will live and die by their corrective excercises like theyre in a cult.

[@hunto53]

Thank you. I'm convinced Jeff has never read any bit of research whatsoever. Eccentric overload is a driver of hypertrophy? Lol. The stuff he says about physical therapy is way worse too.

[@MephistoRolling]

One factor you didn't mention when talking about Jessie in terms of his support of Jeff's defensive reaction. Jeff pays him.

[@MikeJw-je4xk]

I LOL'd when Jeff attributed Jessy's deadlift to facepulls. lmao. I'm facepalming at the continuous insistence on facepulls.

[@AgentPsyte]

Face pulls are the #1 exercise for results in real world face Palms.

[@mertonhirsch4734]

There is more force with a fast reversal at 80% than with a 1 rep max. In fact, most people produce the highest reversal force with about 80% max. Highly trained individuals may do it at lower percentages. IMO as an ex physiologist, the stimulus is most likely putting a muscle under tension when some actin and myosin subunits can be pulled out of line, and don't all go back. This is like pulling a wire brush out of a test tube. Some myosin subunits end up being exposed, out of the actin "crease" and they activate an immunological remodeling response. This is best accomplished with "pulsatile" force production in a relatively stretched range (because pulsatile force production raises peak forces in the stretched position. Pulsatile means involving eccentric to concentric cycles at the molecular level though isometics and eccentrics done in a fairly stretched range can elicit high force and even micro pulsatile contraction cycles (shaking). Pulsatile, eccentric and overcoming isometric in the stretched range can all raise the threshold of maximal force. The entire force profile over time in the stretched range may affect the degree and pattern of subunit disruption.

[@Gathlinka]

I never do face pulls and I have very large rear delts and mid back

[@Abah-cuh-bus]

I hurt my shoulder dumbell benching as a beginner by increasing the load too quickly. I did a lot of rehab movements, took time off, etc, but the movement that really helped and continues to help me no injure my shoulder is facepulls. I honestly don’t care if they are building muscle, but they seem to really help me avoid any shoulder injury. I kept all my exercises the same and swapped Facepulls for various exercises over 18 week period. I then swapped facepulls back in and noticed an immediate improvement in how my shoulders felt. Anecdotal, for sure, but they seem to help me.

[@salpanettieri3115]

Please do a video on best exercises to use as a lengthen partial.

[@simonjoseph1447]

eccentric portion is related to long length partials because in order to do long length partials you have to get to the deepest part of the eccentric movement. I get your point that a lengthened partial is both an eccentric and concentric movement but it still involves getting in the deepest eccentric portion of the movement. so even though I don’t like jeff, he’s still sorta right about the subject more than yourself.

[@tomjones8235]

At 20:52: Is Brad Schoenfeld a co-author of half or more of the sport science papers that get published this days?

[@marcvolpe8252]

NO ACTOR TOM HANKS BRAD SCHOENFELD IS A PORNSTAR

[@DILFDylF]

I'm surprised he didn't mention that Jeff messed up his "increasing your bench gains" example. He said that if you increase your bench by 10% you go from 250-275 but what you would be doing is increasing your bench GAINS so if someone GAINED 250 POUNDS on their bench that would be ludicrous over the course of a study.

[@WolfCoaching]

I think he meant to do that - first illustrate what a 10% absolute increase is (bench example) then contrast that with how small a 10% relative increase is (lengthened partials)

[@mreous333]

I think the most effective lengthened partial exercise is mid to wide grip bench press at the lower half of the press. It’s taxing, works the hardest part of the lift, and might make you stronger at the hardest part of the lift. I feel the same with squats, hack squat, and incline leg press.

[@sonicrocks2007]

Comparing isolation movements to compound. And Isotonic. One thing that I hear about Isotonic not being useful alone is that you can get strength on pertucular hold, but not others. And that is why Isotonic need to paired with concentric and eccentric is that it gives strength to all ranges. Partial ranges seam like they can give you the initial strength in difficult areas. But it may not be conducive like Isotonic in a practical sense for all ranges when challenged with all ranges. And I feel like for something like a compound lift you may not be engaging the secondary muscles as much as compared to before. If you do leg press and do partials do you really get all the secondary muscles or do they need to be fully stretched in the exercise to engage.

[@DavidSmyth8439]

Partials at shortened or lengthened have benefits. Full Rom for every set and rep is inefficient at overwhelming all the portions of the muscle

[@SmoothHandle]

Weird to keep showing Sulek for lengthened partials. That clip shows him ego lifting without going into full stretch.

[@DevKumar-ex6zb]

I don't get how someone can do ONLY long length partials. Like sure for muscle growth it may be slightly better (more likely equivalent given the variety of exercises and how it can differ over all exercises) but you're skipping out like half of the movement. I think for general strength and stuff, the full range is better. Like on a bench press for example, I still don't think just bottom range reps are "optimal", like sure they locally train the chest better, but surely you want that tricep lockout strength, that overall pushing strength. Can't say I disagree with a lot of Jeff's points here (face pull fetish aside). Also very individual, and I think my powerlifting bias is coming in here a little bit.

[@michaelvanderlaan5629]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd take 2.2 inches over 2 inches of extra bicep size any day.

[@Yupppi]

"If you're gonna get 5-10 % more muscle growth in the following 3 years, are you excited? Maybe you shouldn't be." Solid argument Cavaliere, solid argument. I'd like to hear of an intervention that got significantly bigger results at the gym, I believe that would start to look like taking steroids or someone who's doing bad job at the gym versus someone doing good job genetics aside. Like would I want to get 10 % bigger muscles? I probably would, seems like a pretty noticeable difference.

[@speedy6392]

A potential problem with the study you quoted regarding accentuated eccentric loading is that if the eccentric portion of the lift isn't increased by a significant amount, then surely the results yielded from that study showing little to no difference in hypertrophy gains will be because of the fact that the weight can't be increased by too much for safety reasons etc. A more interesting study that would show whether this is truly the case is if say group A does bicep curls, with both concentric and eccentric phases, while group B does concentric only curls with double the volume (to match the overall volume of the first group). My money would be on group A.

[@simonjoseph1447]

you get it. this dude isn’t dumb but he definitely brings a bias to the table.

[@pillemcphilsen8529]

Imagine if Hafthor Bjornsson had trained facepulls. His max deadlift would have been 1500 pounds.

[@Morpheah]

Maybe he has, but Hall-Shaw-Licis-Hooper haven't, and that's why he's got a massive 1.6 lbs on them!

[@memoryhero]

Jessie has turned into, essentially, Donnie Brasco - he looks exactly like he's been working undercover for the feds for two solid years and was just pulled out to debrief yesterday.

[@mattc4266]

I knew this was coming lol

[@WolfCoaching]

WILL JEFF REBUKE LENGTHENED PARTIALS? OR WILL DOCTOR WOLF DEFEND HIS HONOUR? Find out on the next episode of Exercise Scientist Reacts!

[@dackhornbold1728]

I think the main thing is that Jeff and Milo are at different places in life and therefore have different perspectives. Jeff is older and thus some of the other non-hypertrophic benefits of strength training are taking on more importance than for Milo tge young guy who just wants to be big. So both guys are right...lengthened partials are good for hypertrophy and there's more to fitness than hypertrophy.

[@ga4rfc9]

It's also a difference in their backgrounds. Jeff is a physical therapist and worked with professional sports teams on injury prevention, so his programs include a lot of corrective exercises such as the face pull. Milo said in the video he is only focused on bigger muscles and looking good so the only thing that is important to him is hypertrophy. Jeff never said that the face pull should replace pull-ups, pulldowns or rows, he has plenty of them in his programming as well. What I think he was arguing here is that people are too focused on the bodybuilding part and sacrificing exercises that they think don't conform with the latest research in chase of bigger gains. Choose the approach that suits your goals. I watch Jeff Nippard, Dr Mike and Milo's advice on lengthened position for the hypertrophic gains. As someone in their 40s though I find Jeff Cavalieres advice on corrective exercises to work for me as well and still try and incorporate them into a hypertrophy program.

[@chayoto]

Thanks for staying professional, Milo. You could have just gone off on a rant and trash it through and through, but you stayed level-headed. I would like to add, perhaps by being charitable towards Jeff, that his claim might sound less hyperbolic by highlighting the fact that he did mention "addressing the weak link", and though I am aware that there are many potentially confounding factors at play, perhaps one of the bases to cover is that weak link that Jeff purports to address by prescribing face pulls.

[@Johnpdf]

It pisses me off when everyone assumes lengthened partials = stretch mediated hypertrophy thankyou for clearing this up your content is great

[@okkomp]

5-10% of a small increase based on a few months is not +1.5 inches arm circumference. It's more like +0.1"

[@user-sh8uh7cd4l]

I wanna how how we visually compare “muscle building benefits”?

[@mtg1776]

Face pulls cured my ED and introduced me to my mistress.

[@Christopher-ko9op]

Jeff created so much tension when he used fake plates that he gained 1 inch on his arms in 22 days.

[@AkaedatheLogtoad]

It’s silly that he said why focus on hypertrophy only. Because in body building that is all that is important. Hints why many body builders don’t do compound movements too much. It’s just not what they need. But if you say play football the power of compound movements makes much more sense and hypertrophy alone isn’t so important. You work out would be much more strength and power focused. Do everything is a bad answer for sure.

[@ireaditnerd8306]

"Hints why many body builders don’t do compound movements too much. It’s just not what they need. " This isn't correct. Plenty of bodybuilders make use of a decent amount of compound movements. Compounds are typically better for hypertrophy for muscles like chest, back, quads, glutes, hamstrings i.e. bigger muscles. This is because more load can be used and they can be used in lengthened partials too. Heavier loads with compound movements in a lengthened partial ROM = plenty of hypertrophy. Plenty of bodybuilders make use of bench press (barbell, dumbbells), pull ups, rows, squat variations, deadlift variations, overhead press variations, etc. What do you even mean "not what they need?". Like I said, many bodybuilders use plenty of compounds, along with isolation movements. " You work out would be much more strength and power focused. " What? To skew hypertrophy to strength is to lower the reps and increase the weight. Yes, compounds are typically the best for this, but compounds are also best for hypertrophy for larger muscles.

[@johnsavage4786]

Love long length partial and Myo sets wow

[@ericmalitz]

…the argument that if your sport consists of partial ranges that you should be TRAINING partial ranges is woefully behind the times.

[@coows]

Are there certain muscle groups that are better suited to long length partials, or is there evidence that all skeletal muscles are well suited to them?

[@googlefaps5883]

One example I use is overhead strength and positioning. Things such as Olympic lifts can benefit of certain exercises such lu raises or super Rom lateral raises. For all round hypertrophy, shoulder girdle strength, health and mobility. That’s something u can’t get through partials.

[@mohammadumar5217]

I altered the facepulls in a cross cable attachment grabbing left handle with right hand and vice versa. Does a way better job. I'm surprised Jeff hasn't done that yet :P

[@Jizzlewobbwtfcus]

Well the thing I spotted was the guy in the hat was using a different grip. The palm of his hands were facing each other inwards while Jeff's clip showed him having his palms facing away from him. I would've thought the inward grip would incorporate the biceps more to help with what (I'm guessing) would be a heavier load than doing Jeff's variant which would be utilizing the delts far more. Guess I missed something as nobody mentioned that. If I'm wrong please correct me as I'm just guessing here. Thx all!

[@combatcritique]

React to Mr America hearts latest video on long length partials (he mentions you and Dr Mike israetel)

[@rocksaw765]

This is a hilarious length to go to defend the honor of the face pull. I don't understand why he's so determined to come up with as many random strawman defenses as possible of one random exercise. Also, if you're going to pick an exercise to glorify above all others, why the face pull??? At least pick the deadlift or something cause it's a cool powerlifting compound lift.

[@connorism69]

I think his love of face-pulls is excessive, but Jeff's anecdote wasn't addressed correctly here. What powerlifters do is irrelevant to his point. He was arguing that corrective exercises helped Jesse to develop a heavy deadlift "for his size". He referred to lighter exercises in plural too, so you're being harsh there.

[@bismuth7730]

I just want to say if i worked out as long as AthleanX and was still that small i would make myself a part of certain statistic.

[@kelvinosis]

I dig Wolf Coaching but i have to say ive tried the cable crossover for years and just can't get comfortable with them over a single arm crossover or a heavy facepull style row from the side on an incline or elevated flat bench, if needed i can demonstrate, its a good one.

[@kelvinosis]

Also, how hard is it to just turn the face pull 90° and do one at a time?

[@thefakedeal]

I really feel like you misunderstood the point he was making, hai point was face pull helped Jesse with deadlifts by strengthening his smaller muscles, that doesn't mean the bigger muscle groups weren't involved or you can't be strong without it.

[@Bonkxd]

Just love how Jeff picks how much muscle you can build in a 12 weeks lol

[@oreheltneg]

do you recommend lengthened partials at the end of the set where you can no longer complete full reps or from the 1st rep till the final rep? I feel like you recommend the latter but seems like everyone advocates the first so just wanna confirm

[@devil5hlygrim972]

I think the biggest problem with lengthened partials is going to be muscle imbalances due to putting too much strain on one part of the muscle or head depending on which exercise you choose the way I use them is I incorporate them as an intensifier at the end of a workout Also, I would love to see studies on the entire functionality of a muscle not just hypertrophy using only lengthened partials

[@brucele2776]

0:18 lincon partial

[@DexFlex_YT]

that is wild I can deadlift so much because I do face pulls

[@jeffbunnell9961]

for more lengthened facepulls, what about doing them in the cable row station so you can get more stretch?

[@AndusDominae]

That bit about calf raises has reminded me of something. I wonder when I hear of a comparison of different training methods for either limb whether it's taken into consideration that (as I understand it) if you train one limb some effect can be observed in the other limb (I believe there's a technical term for this effect, but I've just spent all day hiking and my brain's soup right now 🤣). So, lets say for simplicity's sake you test high weight low rep curls on the left arm and low weight high rep curls on the right to see which gives you better results. If you see clearly for all subjects the right side gets significantly bigger by all metrics, the obvious conclusion is that low weight high reps is more hypertrophic. But... what if high weight low reps has a greater effect of working on the opposite limb, so it's actually the wrong limb you're focusing on? Is there a way to control for that? Thinking about it in the opposite direction, is there a way to test specifically for how each limb's training method affects the opposite limb? Is it a myth that it happens at all? Do we have sufficient evidence to say with confidence either way if it's a real phenomenon or not? If only I'd stuck around to PhD level, perhaps I could have been the opposite limb training guy. 🤔 I think when I first read about this idea it was based on work done with people who had an injured limb that couldn't be trained for a long time, where the opposite limb was trained as normal along with training the rest if the body as normal (as much as was possible) and observably less atrophying occurred in the injured limb compared to subjects who didn't train the opposite limb but did otherwise continue training as normal. Perhaps even if less atrophy is observed, it doesn't necessarily follow that greater hypertrophy would be observed, but it would show that there's a potential factor that needs addressing when comparing one limb with the opposite limb's training.

[@ninjadudeofficial]

Bro is so obsessed with this one exercise Damn

[@dakkitoto3467]

Can you please wait like 5-7 days for edema to dissipate before you measure when you study, its so easy to do and will benefit your findings.

[@Lucaslf2_]

I swear I love those thumbnails

[@CJ-nm8sw]

I never got the hype with Jeff. He claims that creatine monohydrate is trash and that his BCAAs are great. Fake plates, click-bate fear mongering. He kinda sucks.

[@Chrisiskewl100]

i dont even like his form of face pulls... thumbs back, hands above shoulders forces you to rotate your shoulders back, which ultimately recruits more of your side delts than your rear delts. It also forces you to recruit your triceps a little to keep your hands out and above your shoulders. its better to grab the rope between your middle and ring fingers, with the balls of the rope in your palms, then pull the outside of your hands to the temples of your head. focusing on keeping your palms aimed outward, thumbs down, elbows only slightly above your shoulders, and shoulders rotated forward in order to target those rear delts as much as possible.

[@Solonos21]

I mean I appreciate caring about hypertrophy but I'm not trying to win a bodybuilding contest. I'm trying to look good and be healthy and have a functional body and i think that's most people. Exclusively training in lengthened partials might be great for hypertrophy but i don't think that's the best option for most people's training. Now to include it in your training? Sure that's a great idea, which is what Jeff said lol it's important to train in a variety of ways. I think you're jumping on the shiting on Athlean bandwagon a little bit here

[@doseofreality100]

Saying face pulls are more akin to a row than a pull down... I hate to break it to you but a pull down is pretty much a row too just with your arms above your head. If you went to a seated row machine and hinged completely over at the hip as if you're touching your toes.... and rowed in that position you'd pretty much be doing lat pulldowns. Point being.... lat pulldowns..... are essentially a rowing motion too. I mean if you lean back ever do slightly when you do your lat pulldowns... if you're not careful someone might say you're doing high rows. Because what are high rows other than pull fiend just with your arms slightly more in front of you. To say face pulls aren't translatable to pulldowns.... IMO is foolish. Would it be the pairing I'd choose? No. But to act like it's apples vs oranges here is pretty ignorant. Lat pulldowns work the lats primarily with a lesser role played by the upper and mid back. Facepulls will also hit the lats to a lesser extent but will recruit more upper and mid back... abs "rear delts".... IMO which is just part of your upper back. I mean why do we call it the rear delt? We don't call our hamstrings our rear quads, haha

[@Randula_Gamage]

Facepulls = Bigger deadlifts?? 💀

[@GayBearBro2]

The way Athlean talked about face pulls, you'd think they were gospel.

[@ratch33stokes39]

It's not even the same exercises. 😂😂😂

[@gibbsm]

Face pulls are cool if you're a grandma that can only use light weight.

[@seranonable]

so do i understand this correctly: there's a study (not yet released as of this video coming out) that indicates that that training full range and followed by long length partials after failure provide even more benefit?

[@seanfarrellforreal]

Critique Dr Jim Stoppani. He’s a great biochemist that makes great supplements through JYM Supplement Science. He has millions of followers and I am one of them. I’m more of a skeptic of his biomechanics and hypertrophy programs lately. Please please please

[@Strengthandconditioning60]

I think a lot of people run afowl when they start making the claim "this is the best way to build muscle" Maybe it is for certain people but there's more than one way to do it and I think the term "best way" gets thrown around way too much

[@jonathanpratte1988]

Exactly. Experiment by yourself and keep what is working for you.💪🏻

[@Strengthandconditioning60]

@@jonathanpratte1988 Exactly 💯%

[@deltalima6703]

I dont agree. There is a lot more to it than just which exercise, but some are better than others, for a variety of reasons.

[@Strengthandconditioning60]

@deltalima6703 on any given day multiple influencers will upload "the BEST exercise for blah blah blah' ad nauseum. It gets old. It would be more accurate to say "a GREAT exercise for blah blah blah" instead of the the old tired worn out "BEST" moniker imo but that wouldn't generate the clicks and the revenue. And I like a whole lot of the guys and follow them but damn near every one of them do it.

[@seank5714]

Jeff's videos really helped me at one point fix a lot of stupid things I was doing ay the gym, particularly with pushing exercises. His content also helped me find more movements I could do when I was working through injuries or hitting plateaus early on. But he's become deeply outclassed by many other content creators at this point, his programs that he sells aren't very good, and he hasn't really adapted to what's out there, yet his audience continues to grow. This is a great case where he could have looked at the face pull exercise and maybe tried to find an alternative to it that was LLP friendly for people who wanted try something different -- like maybe a dumbbell/barbell bent over face pull where you can keep your hands wider at the start of the lift could help create additional tension in the stretched position. He could still argue the point that the marginal increase isn't worth the convolution, but provide his audience with another option. But even stuff like corrective exercises should in theory mechanistically work in part by increasing muscle size/capacity/range of motion for smaller muscles -- so I don't really get why focusing on hypertrophy optimization wouldn't be a desirable application.

[@pancakerizer]

His audience has actually been slowly dwindling since 2021 (that's so far back socialblade goes)

[@cristobalarriagada8141]

Training with 1RM produces maximal MUR and MT but only in 1 rep so it would be highly innefficient. Watch Paul and Chris podcast no the 5 rep stimulating model🥃🎩

[@tedkopec]

Lengthened Partials vs Loaded Stretching?

[@mrAngusGus]

The issue with Loaded Stretching or "stretch mediated hypertrophy" (not a scientist, just my cursory understanding) - you need to have a full range of motion stretch, often past the point of discomfort -you need to have hours under the stretch to start seeing results Far more cumbersome and less efficient that just weightlifting for hypertrophy

[@mitchellcotton7346]

​@@mrAngusGusAs I understand it, there's a difference between Loaded Stretching and SMH. Stretch-Mediated Hypertrophy relies on tension in a lengthened position. Whereas loaded stretching relies on the muscle being relaxed and using external load to overcome the internal resistance of the muscle to gain a deeper stretch than can be obtained passively.

[@miamisinan]

Are exercises that involve rowing motions generally bad for long length partial training?

[@brentstewart2150]

Nope!! Just understand what rowing motions are for so you are doing them for certain results…namely back thickness as opposed to back width. If you want a wider back you wanna do pull ups and pull downs. If you want a thicker back you do rowing movements.

[@loganwolv3393]

When it comes to preferences i like to do what i call "chest pulls" so it's like face pulls but you pull to the chest instead so the traps and the romboids are being targeted over the rear deltoids since these are gonna stretch the back muscles more than the rear delts would with ethier the chest or face pulls. I don't understand why there isn't a name for the exercise that i'm doing wich is way more practical than the face pulls anyway.

[@stevenzak199]

A row?

[@loganwolv3393]

@@stevenzak199 Basically decline row with the rope attachment yeah.

[@rockyevans1584]

​@loganwolv3393 so there is a name. Practical for what? They just emphasize different muscles

[@frog6054]

That's what I do too, mainly for my side delts since for some reason, my side delt gets a lot of Doms from this movement.

[@rockyevans1584]

@frog6054 that is strange, but I've never trained with a frog before

[@tracysnitker1935]

I do full range until last set and end set with lengthened partials on some exercises

[@jeremymcjunkin8954]

Exactly what I've started doing. I'd say that proximity to failure is the most important thing. Try not to leave anything on the table in the last set.

[@lukepownall7292]

I’m still convinced that ‘Jeff Cavalier’ is a Chevy Chase character from the movie Fletch

[@koenigcochran]

When the lengthened partials are compared to full rom, are they using the same weight, reps, and sets?

[@BluegillGreg]

"Eccentric overload has nothing to do with lengthened partials. In a long length partial you're doing... an eccentric... phase." You may be wrong here. It's possible that an eccentric overload and an eccentric phase are both indeed eccentric. You're right, Cavaliere does NOT claim that eccentric training is one of "the 3 main drivers of hypertrophy." You then pretend, though, that he does claim that eccentric training is one of "the 3 main drivers." You seem to be using falsehoods to gain attention. Great. You do you.

[@Tropicocitwo]

Milo, where did you grow up? You have such a unique accent

[@martingamer5591]

He's an Englishman. There is a staggering variety in accents between English Jurisdictions.

[@ArchStanton340]

He's not English he's from Belgium. He studied in the UK.

[@Theone.fitness]

Dr. Milo please clear this. To this day many say training legs hard will also help upper body grow indirectly. Yes or no?

[@murmor6890]

You just need to think about how unspecific the word indirectly is. Even if it slightly increases your work capacity or makes you heavier for upper body bodyweight exercises it already contributes indirectly.

[@Theone.fitness]

@@murmor6890 No I was like "via increases in GH or T".

[@gman7370]

“I don’t care what Sam Sulek is doing” Love it! Same here, I don’t see the appeal.

[@tomtraynor5384]

I'm still kinda stuck on Jesse pulling 560-pounds.... ;). I seem to remember Jeff kinda getting caught on the 500-lb deadlift fake lift--so he did it for real--and was vibrating like a....vibrator, barely making the lift--struggling much more than Jesse did here. but I digress....

[@markuvorster82]

At 12:05 did he say 50 percent or 15 percent?

[@marcvolpe8252]

He said 5500 percent

[@WhereArfThou]

12:51 Bro is majestic 🗿

[@AlexS_983]

It's kinda unaddressed but Jesse definitely runs different programs than the Athlean-X brand. There was a video where Jeff and Jesse did a chest day together and Jesse did the pec-deck flye, which Jeff never recommends (hopefully someday Jeff digs up his "iron graveyard" exercises because most of them are actually good). Jesse's deadlift appears real by all accounts, but Jeff claiming credit may just be a bit of salesmanship As for Jeff's love of things like face pulls, the evidence based crowd regards the concept of "prehab" as baseless, but while a lot of the weirdo PT exercises are indeed useless as is most of his discussion on posture, I can anecdotally say a small number are actually quite good at preventing wear and tear. And I think it would be hard to truly test them in a lab setting

[@realgains1538]

Althlean X makes some mistakes and he is so insistent that he is right. FACE PULLS are not a great exercise period, let alone as an assistance exercise for the deadlift ...MY god ! By the way ...there is no F-ing way that guy at 163 deadlifted 560 pounds and you can tell they are fake weights by the rapid pull off the floor and shit form ...this makes me SICK to say the least ! Greg Doucette already caught Althean using fake weights !