WHY HORUS LUPERCAL WAS THE GREATEST PRIMARCH!

[@seymourfields3613]

Horus being called Warmaster because the Emperor had to continue his work on Terra reminds me of my parents leaving my elder brother in charge of my lesser brother and I, just for him to blow up the microwave trying to reheat a bowl of pasta with a fork in it.

[@Achillesofmusic]

Lol great reference

[@sardonicspartan9343]

Lesser brother 😂

[@devilsbane598UT]

Wasn't alpharius/omegon like the secret ones they were raised with the emperor too right?I may be horribly wrong

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

There is another great example in Dorns Primarch-novel. Rogal Dorn, Fulgrim and the Lion are having difficulties working and planning together... then Horus arrives and they all breathe easy. Now a natural unifying leader has arrived.

[@silversurfer8818]

I was just about to write that, the Lion who had been recently found refused to yield to the others - even though Fulgrim had superiority of experience, none would listen to him. Horus had to settle it when he entered the system.

[@ThePathStrider]

Pretty sure I read that Guilliman was once horrified by how the Lunar Wolves left a defeated world, and Horus admitted that Robute was better at leaving a society capable of rebuilding after compliance was achieved.

[@JZ0UK]

First found. But if you were never lost then you don't need to be found. Hydra dominatus.

[@Matihood1]

This is precisely why I don't like the Alpha Legion. You can write all kinds of bullshit into their lore and everyone just accepts it because "muh 10 layers of obfuscation". Alpharius made that whole book up - this is the version I'll be going with.

[@JZ0UK]

@@Matihood1 *slaps roof* you can fit so much Deus in this Machina.

[@doom1609]

As much as I love Ferrus Manus, I must admit that Horus was the greatest and best Primarch. He was nurtured to be the most well rounded son, and it was in his nature to be molded (in my opinion). I think that’s also why he became the chosen for chaos, because he is the only one who could have lead a successful rebellion against the Emperor. I love Preheresy Horus, and while I think that every Primarch is naturally human (mentally) Horus is the most normal. I like the idea of enjoying a beer with the big man and laughing about past exploits.

[@cj4857]

"He's not the greatest primarch! he's a very naughty boy!" Horus's Mum

[@Darkdeity616]

Genuinely one of the biggest tragedies in 40k was the fall of Horus. Cause I doubt Lorgar could have led the other brothers astray as easily without him. A ripple in the water that caused a flood.

[@erihor86]

I much prefer the past stories of Horus that shows how awesome he was before Davin. Like the short story Misbegotten. I less like the ones that make it seem like his fall was inevitable. The one where he goes at it with Malcador alongside Alpharius and Khan. I don't mind his first meeting with Leman, or more specifically the way he acts insecure while talking to the Emperor because he's not the only child anymore.

[@thewayfarer8849]

I think the Horus novella is taking so long because ideally BL would want Abnett to write it. Or ADB; but it MUST be Horus: The Luna Wolf. So much rich discussion of Horus at his best, the Warmaster title ruined it like it would have honestly ruined any Primarch given rule over his brothers. Give us 20 year old Horus learning from his father with a small Imperium.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

Guillimsn and Dorn were logistical. I maintain that they while excelling at war, we're built for peace.

[@Toto-95]

My biggest problem with Horus is that we are TOLD over and over how great he was but honestly... He got duped quite a lot and ended beeing quite the arrogant prick... Didn't FEEL like him beeing the greatest tbh, just the more arrogant and ambitious...

[@Subject_Keter]

Same with how Big E like Sang... but you cant even point to where they were together.

[@2012sonora]

It's a problem with the writing, especially in those first couple of novels. Dan Abnett did a good job. Graham McNeil does a lot of things well but complex characterizations is not one of them. His stuff is fun but his characters all too often have the emotional maturity of children. They should have had Abnett write the first three books together as a trilogy.

[@Subject_Keter]

​@@2012sonora for me, it feels like they were rushed despite having like 10 years. Just skipping through the important stuff, missing stuff any person would be like "ya put that in" and half of the stuff is like forgotten or.. just equates potato.

[@MaticustheRed]

Right, and like how much of his "Greatness" was just hyperbolic propaganda fueled by his long stint with the Emperor?

[@alexbrowne9566]

I feel like Horus is an ass

[@thescarletpumpernel3305]

I like to think of Horus as being a symbol and incarnation of the Emperor's ambition just as the other primarchs represent different aspects of the Emperor. Ambition is inspiring and compelling to others and brings out our best traits in our attempt to achieve, however ambition for its own sake and not for an aim is self-serving, ignoble and can easily be manipulated into darker paths, such as turning to crime out of an ambition to relieve yourself from poverty.

[@izaakkemp8938]

I mean, look at what his son Abaddon accomplished. Literally ripped the galaxy apart...

[@justaaron2558]

Love the premise for this series. :D Nice work!

[@jakewu8268]

Lupercal! Lupercal! Lupercal!

[@ieatpeopleand]

Lupercal! Lupercal! Lupercal!

[@kozzywozzy]

For the Warmaster!

[@isawaryokage]

His greatest flaw was jealousy, and that really sucks imo

[@leoprzytuac3660]

I hope the video starts with: "Ok, listen here, give me a second to explain..."

[@lukasz.adamski]

Horus was great at telling others what they wanted to hear. Perturabo is the greatest Primarch. Instead of telling bullsh*t to others he just gets the job done. He also hard carried Heresy. Without him Traitors would never reach Terra.

[@LetholdusKaspyr]

The Inquisition would like to know your location.

[@jordank3203]

had the greatest rise and fall

[@Subject_Keter]

I still think it weird how Horus, the guy who literally threw a fit when that one world was like "nah, we dont need your Imperium" rejected them, got so butthurt to kill his Dad. Doe i wonder.. if they started 40k when they published the first book, who the big b a l d archtraitor would of been.

[@daothucanh9621]

Which world? 63-19? The fake Terra? The world whose leader killed his sons who were acting as diplomatic envoys? Besides, the Primarch’s job is to “unite” all human pocket empires into the Imperium, any other Primarch will just subjugate that world. They are not gonna stop simply because the world leader said no, it sucks for everyone but that's how it was in the Great Crusade

[@YourStylesGeneric321]

Alpharius was first found, Horus was first announced

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@YourStylesGeneric321 we can't trust a single word Alpharius tells us.

[@bobbobertbobberton1073]

He was legit the greatest Primarch, even the Emperor said so. The Chaos Gods whoever made him into a puppet. He's so underrated because of what he became.

[@kaspersaldell]

Yeah, and anyone who's read the first three 30k novels should understand this.

[@BloodyArchangelus]

@@kaspersaldell First three 30k novells are outdated as f xD

[@kaspersaldell]

@BloodyArchangelus Maybe so, but they basically created the Horus Heresy era, wouldn't you say? And they're still great reads either way.

[@solis_rex_89]

@@BloodyArchangelus lol outdated my a##!! They basically formed Horus heresy

[@BloodyArchangelus]

@@solis_rex_89 which should be 3+ books ? Lmao. Outdated bs, which had to be retconned lmao

[@alainmilette6460]

Still bracing to hear the case for greatest primarch Perturabo 😂😂😂😂

[@catthompson4272]

Literally learned at the emperor's knee still stabbed humanity and his father in the back ruining thousands of years of careful planning and dooming humanity forevermore not to mention willingly becoming the chaos gods sock puppet yeah he really is the best what a success story.

[@ZooKeeper-pk2xq]

Didn't the Emperor know that whomever he made Warmaster would betray him, so he picked an expendable one to sacrifice while keeping the ones he really loved close

[@veriskeri]

I feel like this dude was perpetual, and emperor used his soul for Horus. Because he burned his church he was like burning the galaxy. And I think this perpetual lady that saved malcador then is saint Celestine now.

[@NoxMortem]

He fucked up the Heresy wich was served to him on a golden plate. Even the big four would have prefered another one, but the best where loyal. No, the luperc**t was not the best. The moment he fell to chaos he became the weakest!

[@Subject_Keter]

I kinda want to see a General talk about Horus plans to beat Big E.

[@seymourfields3613]

He fell to Chaos first because he was the weakest.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@NoxMortem bullshit. Every statement there was wrong.

[@Subject_Keter]

​@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen the dude got mad he didnt have a statue on Terra and was b a l d. Bald is a sign of weakness.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@Subject_Keter You are an excellent Troll. Horus wasn't forced to be bald btw. He shaved his head. This has been canon since Horus Rising in 2006.

[@HornetDaz1979]

I wonder when GW/BL are going to finally get his primarch novel out, it's taken them ages to finish the series off.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

The Warmaster

[@chrismills2439]

the greatest traitor too

[@ivylt1274]

It is indeed a testament of how great Horus was at how he brought the imperium to disrepute. No other primarch wouldve been able to do that and no other primarch had the ability to unify and lead their primarch brothers to war like Horus. It is indeed a shame to see a complete primarch fall from such a elevated state. The imperium and mankind not only lost one of its greatest weapons but also one of its great assets in all facets of diplomacy, warefare and down right love for mankind.

[@theochristopher8873]

To all great things there must come an end and Horus was no exception.

[@JK-1975]

Horus was the first "found", but that's only because Alpharius was never really lost.

[@bodricthered]

Twenty minutes counts!

[@JK-1975]

@@bodricthered 😆

[@Mortarion-xt9wp]

Honestly the "never lost" stuff always didn't feel quite right to me. My personal little theory is that it was Omegon, who was launched into the Warp while the Chaos gods left a copy on Terra as a double agent. My lone point of reasoning: Omegon and the twentieth and last legion.

[@ditmarvanbelle1061]

If you need to prop this guy up by comparing him to Sanguinius, you know you're failing the assignment.

[@kylepetersen4625]

Best of the best

[@alwalker3479]

No, Alpharius was found first. Horus was only declared first because the Emperor feared what would happen if he announced Alpharius had been found

[@mightymadkap]

*Laughs in Imhotekh*

[@hammerthemdown1]

The best primarch

[@bodricthered]

Didn't Vulkan get one on one tutoring with big E for like 20 years before he got his legion?

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@bodricthered no, the Emperor had many other things to do and Vulkan worked with both Him and Ferrus.

[@jeffreygreen8668]

Quick question: the Primarchs didn’t have a Black Carapace, so did they just walk in Terminatir armour using their admittedly-über-rocking musculature??

[@nathangillispie51]

Finally!

[@ricksanchez1079]

F*CKING HORUS!?!?!?

[@gabrielpardo4229]

Horus is the greatest because he killed the Emperor. 'Nuff said.

[@helGnT]

First found, yes, but alpharius claims to not needing to be found 😁

[@fancypantsmanface2445]

Horus wasn't the greatest. He wasn't even one of the better Primarchs. I'm certain he has his father's ability to make people believe in him. That every battle he fought moral and the ability to see a path to victory were instantly removed from his opponent. That he didn't have to be good because every plan he make just turned out with the best result possible because his side was unwavering and the other despondent. Corax saw through his father's disguise and I believe Horus's too. And that there may have been massacres of marines of the wrong legion used in the wrong way repeatedly but the other's excused their brother. Only Corax was sufficiently unaffected to be able to call bullshit. Horus also knew it. He hated Corax for calling him out. The big personable everyman couldn't face actually being call wrong. And the impostor syndrome upon being made warmaster lends to the same. I think the gods wanted him for the same reason. That he was a perfect focus for belief. Nothing to do with his war acumen or leadership. Just the belief that a godling needs.

[@thelandlord111]

And in this video we will look at why Lorgar was the greatest primarch. Lorgar was a primarch.

[@mesogot]

"No other brother would have in truth have led a successful Heresy." But... did he? It is said that he convinced half of his brothers to betray the Emperor, but realistically speaking, he only convinced Fulgrim, Mortarion and Perturabo, the rest simply spent their time doing stupid things that affected the empire, but not strictly in favour of Horus, right? And it is not for nothing that it is said that Perturabo was the one who carried out and directed the heresy. Realistically speaking, the heresy was the result of a domino effect of situations that only favoured internal fights, rather than the tactical mind and talents of Horus as a war master.

[@Mortarion-xt9wp]

That's true. Horus and Mortarion were too focused on revenge on the father, who betrayed them. It was Perturabo who truly directed the heresy with Horus essentially being the figurehead. Fulgrim... well he went and f**t a bunch of civilians instead of fighting

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

It is absolutely "for nothing it is said that Perturabo carried the Heresy" because he didn't. Perturabo was solid in the early game, useless in the middle, great towards the end but ran away before the conclusion.

[@mesogot]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen Yes, Peter literally did not carry out the Heresy alone, and yes, he abandoned it at the end, when Horus gave command to Mortarion. And that was when Peter realized the reality of the Heresy; that it was a disaster. But that's the point. The Heresy was a disaster that just happened to happen on Terra, and relatively anything that could be considered 'successful' about it has little, if anything, to do with Horus' ability to carry it out. The Horus Heresy was anything but successful. This brings us to the question: would another brother have been capable of leading a successful heresy? Yes, probably, without a doubt.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@mesogot who? Which brother had the combination of Military skills, charisma, broad appeal and draw? Sanguinius lacked the command abilities. Dorn, Guilliman and the Lion lacked broad appeal.

[@mesogot]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen As I see it Horus' charisma, broad appeal and draw played very little role in the Heresy. Again, he only really managed to get Fulgrim, Mortarion and Perturabo on his side, not a high bar. That leaves only his military ability, and in that sense, all the Primarchs you mentioned could do as well as Horus, if not better. Shit, there's an argument that Guilliman alone could have led a more successful heresy, due to him possessing the highest number of Astartes units of all the Primarchs, them more disciplined and well rounded that what Horus got. The Lion had access to dark age technology. And Sanguinius is Sanguinius. To say he lacked command skills is disingenuous.

[@justincapone]

Btw… “first found” I am Alpharius and who said I had to be found?

[@leavesinautumn5959]

Heresy ..

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

Finally. The real actual answer. Horus Lupercal was the Greatest.

[@chuck2703]

That's right. Not every Primarch can almost die to a cultist, cripple his imperium, get obliterated and have his sons hate him enough to change the legion name. That's quite the achievements.

[@Samuel-cu9vo]

He was literally the very worst primarch theoretically possible

[@Subject_Keter]

Horus got deleted so hard it fried the warp so they reinstall reality from a Necron USB stick. Also failadon is better cuz he knows.. spaceships have mass and he deployed the giant f i d g e t spinner to Cadia. 😂

[@Subject_Keter]

Dude had Abaddon in his army. That should say it all. That like going to a Pokemon touranent and having a lvl 100 Magikarp... no attacking moves beside struggle. 😂

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@Subject_Keter The Failbaddon meme is a lie.

[@perjohanaxell9862]

The greatest but also the worst, after all he is the betrayer.

[@xenoscry]

Dorn coulda led a heresy. Bet he'd have won too.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@xenoscry lol. What Primarchs would follow Dorn? Would the discontent have? No. Mortarion, Perturabo and Konrad wouldn't. The Lion, Ferrus, Guilliman, Corax, Vulkan and the rest wouldn't.

[@HappyBirthday0707]

I see your argument. But honestly, I think it only could have been Horus. That’s why he fell in the first place. If Dorn would have won, he’d have been the one corrupted. Horus was the target of the dark gods for a reason.

[@xenoscry]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen just a quip about the Dornian Heresy. Look it up. It's probably the best alt heresy you'll find.

[@wiggy5209]

Why horus was the greatest Primarch .... They brought destruction ....and Horus wrought the greatest destruction in their time

[@Cmdtheartist]

I mean, yeah, I guess you have to say it's Horus. The Emperor did pick him. Are you going to tell the Emperor he was wrong? Good luck with that. Because of the continent sized palace, and millions of guards, and all those Custodes and then there's the 1000 psykers he eats every day, that'll be depressing, you'll need a break after THAT. Yeah, it'll be a real hassle.

[@BrokenShale]

Great at not getting his daddy's love.

[@robinderoos1166]

But... Which primarch is the baldest?

[@ditmarvanbelle1061]

Lord Baldermort of course!

[@blitzkrieg1941]

That's a crazy way to say Lorgar was the best Primarch 😂

[@seymourfields3613]

Pretty sure the one that threw everything to pot isn't the greatest. If he was so great, he wouldn't have become a heretic.

[@AnshumanKantiBose]

This is still going huh...

[@Samuel-cu9vo]

Literally the worst primarch

[@StrandsOfFate]

You don't have to be the greatest to be warmaster, just the most favoured. Horus was mid at best.

[@DraNayban]

Horus being naturally himself was bull observation though. It might feel like he was but he always molded himself to please others to get what he wanted. Horus and his ego were quite fragile in the end.

[@ultramarinechaplain88]

We all know the warmaster should have been the lion. Horus was given the title because the emperor knew of horus extreme ego

[@thedude5449]

Horus was kind of a punk. He couldn't beat Leman in 1v1. He only beat Sanguinius after Sangy was already wrecked from the previous fights. He let Lorgar manipulate him. He's also the only primarch to get permadead. His legacy is one of failure and being really easy to manipulate. I put lorgar over him easily.

[@Subject_Keter]

I think if Choas would of just puppeted the other primarchs to replace horus, they would of did more then Horus did.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@thedude5449 nothing you said is right.

[@thedude5449]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen go be gay somewhere else

[@thedude5449]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen go be 👬 somewhere else.

[@thedude5449]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen go be a phaguette somewhere else

[@SpacePumma]

#horusisalie Horus was not the best. His brothers were brought in after he had been in the imperium and had earned accomplishments so he had a head start and yet many of his brothers were surpassing him. I also wager his primarch abiltity was his charisma making so others think more highly of him then he actually was. All legit, not opinions or made up. Pure facts. Boo Horus! Great video and channel

[@HappyBirthday0707]

I will die on the hill that Sanguinius was the greatest. He was made to be the perfect. That’s his point. But god damn if you couldn’t say the same about The Lupercal. He was perfect too. That is, of course, why he fell.

[@imperialloyalist3117]

"And Sanguinius is so overbearingly perfect that he wraps back around to being impossible to like" Perfection does not equate to greatness. Horus before his fall was more approachable, more grounded, and dare I say more human than Sanguinius ever was.

[@jeffreygreen8668]

Quick question: the Primarchs didn’t have a Black Carapace, so did they just walk in Terminatir armour using their admittedly-über-rocking musculature??