“Women Need To Come Forward” Badenoch Calls For Examples Of Incorrect Guidance On Single-Sex Spaces

Kemi Badenoch has called on people to give examples of how public bodies use incorrect guidance on access to single-sex spaces, with an aim to “tackle any confusion” on the matter.
The launch of the women and equalities minister’s “call for input” comes a day after the Health Secretary announced plans to overhaul the NHS constitution to “ensure that biological sex is respected”.
The Department of Health and Social Care said on Tuesday that it is “defining sex as biological sex” with the new document, which underpins NHS care.
Talk’s Kevin O’Sullivan discusses the story with GP Dr Renee Hoenderkamp and international editor Isabel Oakeshott.
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#gender #transgender #women

[@mariecarey3514]

Hospital management needs to get fired for stupidity. We don't need idiots running these very serious institutions.

[@myrants5836]

I was recently at a venue that had single sex toilets. As a middle aged straight man I found it extremely uncomfortable sharing a toilet with women. I honestly felt like I shouldn't have been in there at all. It's not just women these single sex spaces feel uncomfortable in, men do too! Men need privacy and dignity as well. It needs to end now!!

[@fablemantra4138]

Indeed.

[@emilyalcorn3547]

I agree… As a woman (biological/natural) I believe both men and women need their own separate spaces… for both sexes… yes I said it both not all!

[@priscillaroberts7945]

A chain of hotels called The Pig at .....has shared toilets. I think we were referred to as Sows and Boars. I wasn't happy and said so on my review.

[@carolramsey6287]

You'd like even less sharing a cubicle with a homosexualist admiring your John Thomas. Personally I don't care who's outside my cubicle in a public toilet. I just don't want them init

[@Duchess_Bananabread]

As a woman with daughters, I'm concerned about our safety in bathrooms with men. But I also have a son and not only do Inonow that HE'S uncomfortable sharing restrooms/locker rooms with girls, but I also worry about girls accusing him of some kind of inappropriate behaviour when they're in there together. Intimate environments should not be mixed. It's a problem for everyone. Period.

[@TwistedTiara]

WE WOMEN HAVE BEEN TRYING TO COME FORWARD COMPLAINING ABOUT OUR SAFE SPACES BUT BEEN SHOT BACK BY FRIGGIN MEN.

[@Duchess_Bananabread]

To be fair, there are a lot of men on our side and also a lot of men who would prefer single sex spaces for themselves as well. Also, a disturbing number of women who are fighting for things like unisex spaces and chanting " transwomen are women."

[@TwistedTiara]

@@Duchess_Bananabread not all men were meant here, my hubby is against all this crap as well, I know men support us, they are our dads, brothers, husbands etc.

[@clareoclareo2626]

Thought experiement - A 13 year old with her period and man in the same toilet. Come on. We need our own spaces.

[@avk-kq7gv]

Maybe only one complaint because women were BULLIED into NOT COMPLAINING! Not to mention under reporting or manipulated reporting!

[@fablemantra4138]

Indeed.

[@Gingerblaze]

When employees are told that complaining will be treated as a "hate crime" you can not get proper numbers.

[@mr.mayhem7402]

Women do need to step and speak out if they don't want their rights as women to be completely stamped out.

[@fablemantra4138]

Indeed.

[@cha9165]

We are trying but we are being silenced. It doesn't help there are also women championing this. They don't realise why these spaces were created in the first place. Put these women in with men in the changing rooms - they have life so good they are blinded by reality.

[@elegantrebel]

women have been speaking out about this for years... but society called them Karens and government kept calling them transphobic

[@Bubble_squeeky]

My niece spoke out at School when she questioned why Paul is now part of their pe lessons, just because he now recognises as a girl and has long hair and mascara on. The teacher told them to shut up because it didn’t affect them. The trans also keeps requesting to share the changing rooms but the girls all roar with anger so far this hasnt happened. Where are these girls rights? And why should they put up with this? There should be a mixed class if there are kids who dont feel they fit in with their biological sex group in sports. He was playing football for a local boys team only 2 years ago and what would the repercussions be if he accidentally injured a biological girl during pe? Its mental

[@naomieggl]

@mr.mayhem7402 Why can’t men join in and show their support for women? It shouldn’t just be on the shoulders of women to speak up about this!

[@TheWerewolfOfNorway-mf5jz]

I've been speaking out for over a decade.

[@anonymousa-uy1hk]

People not lodging complaints because they fear reprisals is hardly “proof” that there are no complaints. Allow women to lodge complaints anonymously or without fear of harassment and intimidation and then we can have that conversation.

[@jaywilliams8147]

I am not scared to speak out but you can complain until you are blue in the face if no one is listening!

[@louisemurray758]

National Portrait Gallery. I complained about sharing toilet with men. Both men and women were uncomfortable in the queue. I had to ask a cleaner to wipe the urine from toilet seat and floor before I used it.

[@bigted1347]

I have questioned relatives who didn't complain about poor care in Hospital. Their response was they didn't want to rock the boat in case they didn't get the care they needed. Many a hospital has issues with poor care and an inability to face the truth

[@danceswithgoths]

Thanks for flagging this up. Marks and Sparks are the obvious example.

[@sudenims5235]

Kellie Jay Keen started “let women speak” for the very reason there have been very little complaints. Women have been pushed down for speaking or called anti-trans or a bigot. They SILENCED us. Hopefully now we can speak freely.

[@clovermark39]

Yes just look at all the push back she has had in her speakers corner and stuff.

[@sbalmer132]

Add a third toilet that’s unisex for those who aren’t happy to use single sex toilets.

[@dcollins4679]

That's not validating for some man's gender identity.

[@user-oz9em9el7e]

@@dcollins4679 What exactly do you mean? Some people cannot be confident about their gender identity unless they don't use toilet of their identified sex?

[@wolfhugs2221]

Norwich Student's Union. Revolting toilets. Broken locks and seats sprayed. It's a morons idea.

[@autumnb7135]

Does anyone here remember the lady on Twitter who had an awful time in hospital because she complained about the trans identifying man in the bed opposite hers? I think she had “bumble bee” in her username but I can’t find her now. I don’t know if she closed her account. I remember that her mental health really went downhill after that. Myself & many others witnessed the whole event play out over twitter a few years ago. She’d previously been sexually abused in NHS care & shared an article about what had happened to her. This was obvious very raw & possibly made her vulnerable so she removed it soon after. So this poor woman was in hospital again after everything that had previously happened to her and having to sleep opposite a man who wants to be a woman. She asked the staff if he was a man & they deliberately lied and gaslit her by telling her that he was a woman (so as not to breach HIS confidentiality). However, she recognised him & got confirmation from someone who knows him that he’s a bloke. So she complained again to the staff. The very next morning she was abruptly told to pack up her stuff because she was being sent home. She was under the impression that she wouldn’t be going home that day because she’d been told there were more tests that needed to be done. They told her no, everything that needed to be done had been and they sent her home. She felt this was directly related to her complaining and that she was treated as a bigot that needed to be gotten rid of as soon as possible. She tweeted about this from her hospital bed so we could all support her with it as she was obviously feeling vulnerable & lacking confidence to deal with everything but also she had been very badly abused when staying at an NHS place for people with anorexia. I was utterly disgusted when I read what had happened to her. For the staff to dismiss her concerns after that ( for them to do it to any women would be bad enough) but I was versuvian when they treated her like that. It was utterly callous & cruel & completely unfair. As if that wasn’t bad enough they deliberately put her health at risk by dismissing her early. That’s something only the deluded & brainwashed could do. But that’s many of our NHS staff now unfortunately. Anyway, she was finding it hard to cope after that & I think she may have deleted her account as I stopped seeing her posts in my feed. Although I think it could just be the twitter algorithms changing too, though. There are lots of accounts that I used to see in my feed which no longer pop up. So if anyone remembers the lady please could you let me know? I often think of her & wonder how she’s doing. She was so incredibly strong & a really lovely person xx

[@lem5288]

You need to battle to even get decent, clean care in most of our hospitals, never mind trying to complain about the toilets which are less than hygienic to start with. You are there to get well not come out feeling exhausted and abused. No way should we have shared toilets.

[@Bubble_squeeky]

Thoughts on a recently identified ‘trans’ who has moved to join girls pe lessons and games lessons at high school? 2 years ago the boy was playing football for a local boys team, fast forward 2 years and he is now recognises as a ‘she’ has grown her hair wears make up but the girls who questioned the teacher were told to shut up

[@paul-soundaffected]

At one of my kids school they have a unisex toilet, the rest of the toilets are closed at certain points during the school day

[@lioness-drss7349]

Why do I need to give examples?! Why does something have to happen to be listened to?! Give us our sex based rights and spaces back, end of!

[@Duchess_Bananabread]

If a woman is concerned about men in women's wards/restrooms/changing rooms/etc, she's concerned about safety. At that point, she's assessing the potential danger of everything, including the potential danger of complaining about hospital policies and practices to the hospital itself whonhas already made it clear they don't care. She needs their help, she can't risk angering them, so what's more immediately dangerous? The man in the bed next to her or the hospital denying her care as happened to that woman in Oregon a few years ago? It's been made VERY clear what hospitals and schools and the like think of women who complain about this stuff so we already know the kind of reaction we can expect and that reaction IS dangerous. It's not that women don't complain or speak out, but we do have to weigh the risks of when and where we do it because we ARE vulnerable in these situations. Perhaps Badenoch should listen to the many, many voices of women online complaining, or the many, many news stories that come out with stories about this, or look at the women being assaulted in women's prisons, or go to a Let Women Speak event. We are speaking, they just don't care to hear it.

[@normabead.9600]

Keep gender neutral toilets BUT we need single sex spaces that are for biological sex only. People can then choose.

[@darrentaylor1414]

No such a thing as gender neutral. This is about s3x, there are only 2 s3x3s. Male and female. No need for stupid mental gymnastics that everyone is really fed up with now.

[@irenebianchi5088]

It's a nonsense, women want their own spaces thank you very much, what is going on with the world? In a very nice boutique hotel in Greece I found a unisex loo while we were waiting for our room to be ready. It s an uncomfortable situation for both sex I think, men are not happy either

[@codswallop164]

Who does the trans woman also identify as a fisherman? Because he's still got his tackle.

[@RachelDavies-wn7ir]

How about calling it rules, not 'guidance', which sounds optional.

[@Lovelife20004]

Exactly, there should be robust laws to stop this insanity, the lunatics are running the asylum!

[@Incoherent-excitement]

The whole point of safeguarding is to prevent the safety risks from happening. So asking if these things are happening to justify change seems like a waste of time. If they happen it's a risk, which is justification enough to put rules in place to keep women and girls' safety and dignity intact. Also, most people are afraid to complain as many have lost jobs for raising concerns.

[@didwest1249]

Im a female and dont use dunnies womens ones cos the whole things embarrassing i try and hold it

[@carolokbrblol]

I don't even let my husband in the bathroom. My private space.

[@msimons7440]

@carolokbrblo That's the secret to a lasting relationship: separate bathrooms.

[@carolokbrblol]

@@msimons7440 lol. We have them. Lol. My space, enter at his own risk. Lol.

[@Travel1nman-yx2rx]

Our local cafe, under new management, have refurbished the business and now have unisex w.c. Pity, the cafe has been welcomed, but this is one major setback is good reason not to frequent or allow our kids to visit after school. Bad decision.

[@dianajones5708]

I wouldn’t be afraid. I’d be screaming it out loud.

[@bobc5678]

Stop this madness now, there should always be separate toilets.

[@liahurst8575]

There should be 3 sets of loos nowadays. Male, Female and Gender Neutral.

[@gavinbissell8847]

Had to queue in a primark at a single sex toilet for at least 30 mins with a bunch of women for a 20 second slash. They never point out men hate this too

[@speedymccreedy8785]

If only your office workplace was a single sex space. You wouldn't have to put up with all the talking and meetings.

[@DianaBee620]

Marks and Spencer.

[@johnwhite2293]

Having spent quite a bit of time in hospitals supporting my wife, the toilet facilities are single use, it is a room with 1 toilet in, so it is extremely unlikely that you would be sharing it with someone you don’t want to, so unless someone sees someone of the wrong sex coming out of one and complains to Staff, I can’t see how it would impact on anybody. Having been in both sexes toilets for myself and to support my wife, I can say that the men’s tends to be a little cleaner.

[@marjoriedearden6058]

Why cant there be a toilet like we have for disabled people for trans gender then other toilets will be single sex toilets

[@msimons7440]

@marjoriedearden Because then 'trans' people who think they're women would be offended.

[@donner101]

Set aside 150 loos for all the different genders and litter trays for people identifying as cats.

[@mrsmunchin]

Single sex toilet in coffee shop are discussing. They stink. Women only toilet don’t, in general. Went into a mixed toilet in Scotland last week. The cubicle didn’t reach the ceiling. I was lucky there was another woman in the next one. Very uncomfortable feeling that a man could look over.

[@richardarcher3435]

We've already got unisex toilets haven't we? Uni means one. Multi or polysex means both.

[@dianerevill7190]

Why is this even a dabate. Just give them a separate space. Just stop it.

[@paulareadman7478]

Better start re-educating the next generation what the difference are between the sexes. 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[@run2cat4run]

So you begging for examples lol

[@TheWerewolfOfNorway-mf5jz]

Are you saying it's ok for men to enter women's spaces?

[@run2cat4run]

@@TheWerewolfOfNorway-mf5jz no i am not saying that at all since this another attack on the trans community

[@TheWerewolfOfNorway-mf5jz]

@@run2cat4run if the trans community respected actual women's rights, this wouldn't be happening.

[@Lovelife20004]

@@TheWerewolfOfNorway-mf5jzthey don’t give a damn about woman’s rights, they want woman eradicated. So the transformers can take over

[@run2cat4run]

@@TheWerewolfOfNorway-mf5jz they actually do but the terfs are spreading lies

[@FreyjaKat]

When I’m in hospital I don’t care who is in the bed next to me, it’s no big deal

[@jsemplefelton5348]

Maybe not for you.

[@mousenation3867]

I care about my dignity ever if you don’t

[@bluedragon13063]

Talk tv whining on every subject

[@laurafenton6776]

Definitely get rid of the mixed loos soon

[@gillianstapleton8566]

Of course they didn’t get complaints …. Your not allowed say anything or your threatened & bullied … plus if your sick in hospital your in a particularly vulnerable position you don’t actually have the strength to fight any other cause than you getting better. But people that were never effected by it don’t understand and stay silent. This arguably one of the most misogynistic times in history.