World of Warships- Hate Subs? You're Gonna LOVE This!

Hey guys! Today we have some great news for submarine haters! A huge number of ships are getting damage buffs to depth charges and a buffed number of depth charges as well!
Article: blog.worldofwarships.com/blog...
Reddit Post: / submarine_performance_...
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[@timothyodenwald7441]

Can only hope that - in future updates - BBs will see their ASW damage increased as well. DIRECT HITs ought to be able to take at least 1/3 of the sub's HP

[@Uni790]

Maybe we also let subs take away 1/3 of a battleships HP with a single hit too? From 10km away and through an island to boot?

[@timothyodenwald7441]

@@Uni790 We both know that (shot-gunning) subs can CURRENTLY easily remove 1/3 of a BB HP with a single salvo

[@Obst]

Before ASW damage is increased, its range needs to be increased by factor of 1.3-1.5. Lower tiers are a total shitshow because sub range does not scale properly per tier.

[@timothyodenwald7441]

@@Obst Perhaps. Just yesterday (in Ranked), 2 Direct Hits on a Sub that removed less than 40% of his health. Using the same logic...I'm expected to land 5 Direct Hits to sink the SOB? What good does more ASW range do if you're not inflicting (signifcant) damage?

[@HardNorthOutdoors]

@@timothyodenwald7441 the issue with the focus on nerfing shot gunning is in the subs defense, when it runs out of battery charge and forced up to the surface then gets run down by a DD, a rear torp salvo with just tickle the DD. so in regality this buff to damage and nerf to sub survivability along with the stupid ping direction indicator really makes sub survivability a big issue. i understand they want to balance subs but in this care, they went a little to heavy handed.

[@5kgBirnen]

Crazy how willing they are to change subs this hard and not touch the actual gamebreaking class for years (CV). Spotting changes are overdue

[@l.a.w.5738]

tbh, if anything spotting is the one thing I do not despise for carriers, it is an integral part of a CV gameplay. However the spotting range could be lowered a bit and a CV should not be able to deal out gigantic damage on top. In short, make CV deal their damage but not as it is now. I could also get behind the idea of having much different CV archetypes, IJN CVs could deal low dps but high upload dmg (think of kamikazee) while american CVs have low upload damage but high dps. Hitting for 15-25k per volley or 8 torps is simply unacceptable with the other perks a CV brings.

[@garystew2077]

@@l.a.w.5738 It's ridiculous to be able to spot nearly the entire enemy team in the first minute of the game. That is valuable information knowing which ship is where. It eliminates a lot of strategy and takes away any element of surprise if you're a DD or CA trying to set a trap. I think they need to implement a new type of spotting mechanic for CVs where only they can see surface ships at a certain distance and then if they want their team to also be able to see them they would have to lock on to the enemy ship for 5 seconds or something for them to be spotted for the rest of their team. This would sort of mimic spotting planes relaying information over the radio back to their fellow ships.

[@xPureNRG007x]

100% agree. I do not understand this at all.

[@sayhallo3769]

Just make spotting minimap only, but WG is too complex to do that@@garystew2077

[@randomd286]

@@garystew2077 They already have a mechanic in game called radio location. It shows ship location on mini map but is not actually visible. Thats what it should be and I've never understood why it isn't. It solves a lot of issues and doesn't reduce any of the 'fun' form the CV's perspective.

[@popefang]

WG " We introduced subs, you hated it, we ignored you, you left and stopped playing"

[@randomd286]

Numbers must not be looking so good on the Ol' spreadsheet. Honestly WOW was great because you got to shoot big guns at ships, yet WG keeps making it so there would be less surface ships to shoot at. Classic case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[@RUHappyATM]

Everytime I see 2 subs per team, I just play stupid in my BB and stay way back.

[@LooxJJ]

I quit this game. And started to play Helldivers…and discovered that I actually enjoy gaming :D

[@dutch0770]

You quit over subs? Hahaha. That was what the final draw was? Just shows how "smart" the players that are left are....

[@tonepilot]

Yup. That’s why I stopped. The last two matches I played a few months ago resulted in me dying from shotgunning subs with the first 5 min. Haven’t been back since and this update won’t bring me back either.

[@ImpendingJoker]

That Gearing in that game really was useless. He kept saying how bad the team was but he wasn't doing the one fundamental thing that he should have done: spot. Then started crying when he left his smoke in the cap. Gearing is not a bad DD, that guy just sucked at playing it.

[@theguru143]

We badly need an AA buff. Virtually every game I see 3 or even 4 ships firing away at incoming planes and the darn things STILL make it through all that to hit ships. That is b/s

[@tmarcus309]

I just wish the DD could detect subs easier. I've spent a lot of games chasing them down in my Fletcher

[@TheEurotrash1999]

DD's are the only class that should have depth charges. Cruisers up should be with air strike ASW.

[@Jauger79]

Very true what is really lacking is WGing out look on the game is the lack of realism(subs that fast underwater bull shit) try and make the game realistic not focused on what they are doing now and layers will return.

[@KingRat71]

⁠@@Jauger79german type 21 were vvery fast underwater

[@billblack831]

Light CA have been known to carry depth charges so their no need for ASW for those ships.

[@petiertje]

@@KingRat71 Fast for a submarine of the time. Not fast by most other comparisons though ;)

[@dustinbuck6433]

Biggest DD ASW upgrade I want is the DDs with rocket depth charges, have an aiming reticle coming out front.

[@oneangrycanadian6205]

Play lower tier and you get 3 subs per side along with a carrier sealord

[@garystew2077]

I just wish the pinging mechanic would be easier to tell where the sub actually is. Even with the latest update I can't ever tell where they are and my ASW drops rarely hit them

[@pickeljarsforhillary102]

If only Mister_MRE put as much effort into his grammar as he did in crying about the Gearing.

[@broccanmacronain457]

Many years ago I was a player in a modified version of SFBANG (miniature WW2 ship combat). The person who ran it was a stickler for accuracy in the stats of the ships. The reason I bring this up is that we found that the Japanese DDs (my usual foe) and the Russian DDs (that would be me) were notoriously bad in anti-submarine action due to the lack of depth charges carried on board. My destroyers were always out of them with only a couple of runs making them useless in their escort duties. My point in bringing this up is that it does not seem like WG (which does not surprise me) is using historical references to determine which DDs should be buffed and which ones should not be buffed. As a submariner, I do agree that depth charge damage should be increased, especially from a direct hit.

[@frosty3693]

Historically the Italian DDs did not even have Sonar. In the game subs are way too fast. And maybe torpedos too (ship speeds are not to scale either). Also if they wanted to be historically accurate the torpedoes should leave tracks on the surface so a DD could run down the trails to where the sub fired the torpedoes. (only the ship launched IJN type 93s, late in the war they did have some oxygen wakeless torps though, and the German electric torpedoes did not leave trails.) Before the USN fixed their torpedoes, the optimum distance to launch a sub torpedo was 1,100 yards. (just a bit more than half a nautical mile) This was to match the poor depth keeping of the torps and at that range the torp would be near the depth set not ten, or more, feet above or below.

[@broccanmacronain457]

Most of what you are saying I have been saying since before Subs even appeared, though I did not know about the Italian DD's lack of sonar. I also do not think they should be homing torpes.

[@frosty3693]

@@broccanmacronain457 Yes, Mussolini's mis adventures in Africa made Italy a bit of a pariah in Europe so the other nations would not share technology with them. Though Germany did later.

[@broccanmacronain457]

@@frosty3693 Sorta like Turkey in WW1

[@deadmanschest4322]

It would be nice if Radio Location (at least for DD without Submarine Surveillance, in case some would get it some day) also worked on submerged submarines (minor hydroacoustic component). And yes, that would require taking nearly the same risk as any DD and CA with good stealth who goes far out to attack the enemy from the flank. If you risk it, you can be the hero of the day or you'll soon be back in port, just like any DD or stealthy CA.

[@concidius]

Instead of adding more charges they should have increased the damage and the cone. DD charges should be more powerful than plane based to compensate for the risk.

[@SithLordmatthew]

I would like to see some major plane based ASW changes. The depth charges dropped should be double no one is sending out a plane to drop a single depth charge thats just silly. But id like to have is the option to choose active or passive ASW at the discretion of the commander in battle. So how this would work is this Active would mean you send a plane out to a location and it drops its full payload on that location. This is the same thing we have now. Passive you send a plane to a location and it patrols the grid for 45 seconds or so searching for subs. If it finds one it can then attack it on its own with half its payload if its early in its patrol and then come back for a second strike or it can dump its full payload if it was near the end of its patrol. The idea being you force the subs to stay submerged reducing their speed and vision or risk having a bomber locate you and engage you. This is a absolute over due change to BBs it would allow them to set up a ASW picket line and retreat from the sub, something they cannot do now. It has never been right that a 30 knot bb once latched onto by a stalking sub is unable to disengage for the rest of the match.

[@Smenkhaare]

True that... in my Tier 10 bb's I have to run across half the map and still have a sub chasing and firing torpedoes at me without fail.

[@HardNorthOutdoors]

the issue with the focus on nerfing shot gunning is in the subs defense, when it runs out of battery charge and forced up to the surface then gets run down by a DD, a rear torp salvo with just tickle the DD. the sub cant defend itself anymore. so in regality this buff to damage and nerf to sub survivability along with the stupid ping direction indicator really makes sub survivability a big issue. i understand they want to balance subs but in this case, they went a little to heavy handed.

[@mikep9690]

Let the subs feel the cc love and allow planes to spot subs at like 1k so the plane would have to fly over the sub .

[@carstenhansen5757]

Much better headline. THANK YOU!

[@medstud]

Good. Next curtail spotting by CVs and we're back on track again.

[@grayboats7741]

Looks like plan is stay back & hope DD charges into guns of surface mates.

[@shironee_2384]

Idk why they didn't buff RN CL line as well, considering that they only have AP which means you must be very accurate at hitting them at ranges unlike HE spammers. Also 4 ship depth charges in Minotaur is a joke compare to her nephew Brisbane that got ASW airstrikes.

[@GulNadar]

What's the overlap from the last ASW change/addition because lots of nations got nothing.

[@simonconte7299]

Best news in ages! Can't wait to see the response on Normal Guy of the North, which is a pro-sub channel. He offers strategies on how to beat the new ping indicator, etc.

[@carstenhansen5757]

The amount of depth charges, mostly don't matter, because most of the time the sub is long gone, unless he was JUST spotted. And even than and even in a DD, you can't turn directly into him. I'd rather have them doubling the explosive area of effect.

[@fobgrvt]

For me this is indeed the biggest problem with subs. It's nice that you have more dmg now, but the real problem still remains predicting where they actually are. Especially with ship-based ASW, a gap of 3 ingame km is enough for a sub to run and no longer be where he got spotted. Even with the new longer ping animation, I find it incredibly hard to predict where a sub will be by the time ASW-planes arrive. Those 15sec or so are enough for a sub to change course. And in the end, all of this is under the assumption that you actually spot the sub. I'm pretty sure this will just lead to subs shotgunning from a bit further away, with almost the exact same result. By the time the torps get spotted, it will generally be too late anyways.

[@watchthe1369]

That means the subs are going to need to learn deep scouting and how to hunt carriers. If a submarine yolos the carrier, it will have an impact if it takes it out. If a submarine spots for a while, tracking the carrier and backline BB's until it gets damaged, Its torpedoes on a carrier in the early game can be huge.

[@grayboats7741]

Having done a few piñata, if they add mines to the main game. Well, we will so need more charges just to move. Just a late random thought.

[@Daigar]

I assume mines will come with the Japanese light CV line. Whenever that will be.

[@tarponharbor]

Experienced players know that traveling in groups of 2 significantly and three greatly provides great AA defence. The weakness of Russian planes to ship grouping has nullified them . In Pinata this grouping has really nerfed cvs but has made mines powerful. I expect you will see mines and area bombing to counter grouping in randoms soon.

[@svenfricke2961]

Exactly what we see in the Piñata event with the bombers.

[@handsonkeyboardandmouse7321]

Props for the less click-bait thumbnail today. Actually says what it’s about. 🎉

[@davis6048]

Not just 3km Its even more actually like 5km because the ship races towards you has to have at least 3km to get full damage. You have to get your torps out at around 5km In order to get a total of 3km, because both ships are getting closer to one another......

[@taiko1237]

It would be nice, as a way to compensate for this and the anti-shotgunning changes a little, if all sub deck guns were made player controlled, so us players who find subs somewhat fun to play can at least a) actually damage an enemy sub inside of three kilometers and b) be able to shoot back against a DD in the same range, regardless of how little the latter will do. Maybe make it possible to incap DC launchers on DDs and CLs as well. On the other hand, its a good change, both from a balance and historical accuracy perspective.

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303]

The ones that are AI are the 88mm guns which WG typically leaves as secondaries anyway. Only the larger 100mm+ guns are main batteries

[@Daigar]

You are not allowed to damage DDs unless the DD player allows you to - this is the current state of game design and player mentality.

[@andraskovacs8959]

Ship-based depth charges suck whatever the buff, as most of the time the sub will shotgun you before you get to even try to use it... especially on cruisers.

[@sealordmountbatten]

They cannot shotgun you anymore, submarine torpedoes now have a 3km arming distance

[@mikedignum1868]

Nice Jutland trailer SL.

[@origamichik3n]

WG has to do more. American destroyers still do not have the ability to throw potatoes at enemy submarines.

[@bustermorley8318]

I have noticed with the new commonwealth cruisers that submarines now give me a wide berth. In fact now I actively go looking for them. Suits me fine.

[@gabrieltomy220]

More than dmg or number of deep charges increasing the explosion radius of those would be better; but yeah some dds need a increase to those stats to since if you catch a a sub at full HP in some dds even hitting all deep charges wasnt enought to kill it.

[@uravgwargamer3300]

I will also post a video on my YT channel as well as it seems interesting. I fear with these buffs on destroyers, submarines might be get buffed in homing torps or something since the shotgunning potential is a lot less than it used to be.

[@Cerberus0076]

One step in the Right direction..keep going WG Gonna take years,to fix the damage done to the game, since the very first time subs were involved

[@frosty3693]

The speed of the subs vs the time it takes a DD to get close enough depth charge them has been broken from the start. Then BBs and cruisers howled that they could not counter subs at all so they got airstrike depthcharges so they could hit subs easier than a DD can. Plus the DD often gets so close to the sub that it stands a good chance of accidentaly ramming it and takeing a huge amount of damage. The WG workers who developed this mess need to be sent to the Ukrainian front armed with a cap pistol. With their crewing smoke and speed boost, Italian DDs are much better at running down subs. The rather slow IJN DDs can just be painful to try. Subs like the old CVs need a total rework. WG needs to step back and see where they went wrong and start over if they want subs in the game, and keep regular players. So a DD can blap a sub now. What is new? A broadside cruiser can get erased by a large cruiser or BB. A torp DD, or Paolo Emilio can dumpster a BB at close range. You wan subs as protected as CVs???? If I wanted to play a sub I would launch my copy of "Silent Hunter".

[@torlekjpec5708]

DDs being worse at killing subs with BBs being the best after CVs irks me the most regarding subs.

[@GulNadar]

Honestly you just sound like a reckless DD player. How you wrote that much without saying nearly anything is an achievement.

[@paulrasmussen8953]

Subs were always broken. There was a reason subs were not in the game at first and why they said no subs initally

[@GulNadar]

@@paulrasmussen8953 I was around back then and the game just wouldn't function that way. It was a huge undertaking to add anything beyond surface ships. Pretending it was some reason for not having subs is laughable.

[@paulrasmussen8953]

@GulNadar no subs never directly participated in fleet battles. The reason us bbs i. The game are so slow is that was an orl thing. In irl the su s were slower submerged. *THEY DON'T BELONG IN THE GAME*

[@grassmann028]

Destroyer should get sub surveillance. To compliment a s w

[@papplaszlo4020]

omfg that gearing is a proper duckhead

[@grassmann028]

That is the destroyer's role after all

[@bulletpretzels1198]

Just got the game . Been grinding for 2 days . Already at level 15. When do the ships come available for purchase ?

[@kingofcastlechaos]

That DD was weird. Checked his stats and has 17k battles and recently did 235k in his Gearing, so he has the skill and could have done the spotting. But pretty typical experience when dealing with players having a ton of battles like him, hard to deal with and nearly bi-polar on cooperation.

[@drink15]

The list of ships are mostly ones nobody plays or i rarely see.

[@geehammer1511]

Normal WG stuff then, buff the ships that no-one uses lol

[@Bohdisattva326]

Go play the piñata event. It’s lit 🔥

[@gstormcz]

I am bit worried that WG will make from this sub nerf to be another buff as last time change. Increase of number of depth charges and even alpha damage per each doesn't mean anything to actual damage output. I am curious if WG won't secretly change also chance to do maximum damage or damage blast radius to subs. Maybe they are readying the moment, when subs gonna be spotted the way DDs (or other classes) are depending on their concealment. 👉 My only wish to change to subs is simple: WG do normalize subs BXP in matches. If they are in ranked and do similar performance as other, they are having 50 perc bonus to BXP, which saves them star and pushes them towards higher league. No speaking about better rewards through BXP like captain XP or free XP

[@clmwrx]

No.

[@hapexamendar1093]

Remember… these are basically free attacks! Attack randomly too. I’ve hit and even sank a sub “randomly”!!

[@janboen3630]

If you can catch a sub as their speed, even submerged, is high.

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303]

The only DD they outrun is daring

[@sealordmountbatten]

With the exception of the U-4501, subs are quite slow for their tier submerged, most TX subs top out around 16-20kts underwater

[@xPureNRG007x]

Play a sub and understand they are not the beastie people make them out to be.

[@GrayFullbusteR322]

Please make a top 5 coal ship video 😊

[@DEMIR_DUK]

U4051 makes 37.5 knt catch if you can

[@xPureNRG007x]

Some people need to do a little research. U-4501 is the Type XXVII UBoat with the Walthers peroxide system. They were insanely fast underwater. Much faster than on the surface. And that ship is certainly not OP in the game. U-2501 is much better.

[@alabamastanthegreat8979]

@@xPureNRG007x That class was supposed to go 24 knots underwater.

[@mikep9690]

The depth charges are still dropped 1 at a time so it's more a larger area of effect than damage

[@Daigar]

He's talking about DD depth charges. They are dropped in a series from the ship's butt. If anything, WG should buff BB ASW instead, they're the most hard-countered class in the game.

[@mikep9690]

@@Daigar I was talking about dd depth charges. More charges will make getting a hit easier not more damage most of the time

[@Daigar]

​@@mikep9690 Yeah, that's what I was talking about too. Maybe I just misunderstood your use of "one at a time" or something.

[@mikep9690]

@@Daigar a dd drops a depth charge every half second or so until they're all gone so more D.C.s just increase the area of effect

[@rosssuttonproperties]

Really don't understand why, as any dd that gets in dc range of a detected sub has pretty much a kill already. Probably should allow subs to dive deep to escape detection. But they lose all awareness of enemy ships and planes.

[@oxishimaruxo]

So what you're telling me is, I CAN now do my Tom Hanks Greyhound RP?

[@utimas1696]

Soooo essentially subs are screwed when a DD or light cruiser spots them and they’re able to drop their dept charges. Beautiful.

[@el9206]

So ships specifically meant to hunt and destroy submarines, will be able to hunt and destroy submarines. Yup

[@xPureNRG007x]

@@el9206 and the actual WW2 tactic of a “down the throat” torpedo on said charging DD is impossible….Yup…add that to no citadels, SAP damage limits, next to no damage from BB caliber shells… DD is becoming a protected class just like CVs!

[@Daigar]

Hey, welcome to the "Normal Surface Ship" club, where we all die without any chances to counterattack if we get spotted by a DD.

[@unowno123]

Last game I encountered a submarine on both teams, and they did absolutely nothing the entire game they scurried around the frontline, constantly diving probably because of hydro and enemy DDs meaning they were never spotting, and then when they attacked they did no damage, because we already killed the enemy ships with our deck guns Can we get a mode without submarines, as they're just dead teammates, they don't do anything, they don't even spot or harras enemies, I'd rather have another real ship on the team

[@xPureNRG007x]

The same could absolutely be said about DD players (exemplified in the video by Gearing). Subs being what they are a large number of bad DD players shifted to playing subs. This in itself is not a problem bc bad players in subs do not affect the game as much as bad DD players. But a well piloted sub is an absolute force. To your point about a separate game mode: a permanent Convoy Mode to draw DD and Sub players sounds perfect. They should also consider a more “not new player” focused mode for low tier ships. Would be a great way to play dreadnoughts without CVs or subs.

[@unowno123]

@@xPureNRG007x I've never had an issue with submarines, I don't understand where the fear mongering comes from. But I suppose many players don't know how to keep their distance, dodge homing torpedoes etc. In my opinion the developers are delusional and think submarines are way more powerful than they actually are.

[@Daigar]

Player when submarine deals damage: REMOAV DAMAGE FORM SUBS Also Player when subs get nerfed: SUBS AR USELSS

[@Radbug11]

After series of submarines BUFF, finally good news.

[@josephsmith2183]

If they replace the roll off depth charge system on some allied ships. With the hedgehog depth charge system they would have had by the end of the war. I wouldn't care about shotguning so much.

[@sinceRENEss]

but then an indicator for the charges landing would be needed..

[@xPureNRG007x]

Shotgunning is already dead. If you keep getting nuked now it is because of your tactics, and a DD will do the same to you.

[@grassmann028]

Destroyers are a sub hunting class.

[@HAWK...214]

sub buffs will follow shortly after

[@jackaubrey2230]

Asw buff + Commonwealth cruisers 😼

[@randomd286]

If they follow this up with fixing CV spotting so it is only radio, I'd sprint back to the game. I miss the old days as there still isn't anything close to pre 2020 WOW. I quit because there was no signs WG would ever go back to considering gameplay in their decisions. Hopefully this is a sign of a new direction (highly doubt it though).

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303]

Theyre changing CVs so they have no spotting unless they're attacking, and have to rely on teammates

[@xPureNRG007x]

They did announce an overly complete system that partially removes CV spotting. It is a silly system that, as most overly complex systems will, have exploits that CV players will find and use to their advantage. Lesta, on the Russian server, made all spotting map only for aircraft. Simple and effective.

[@Daigar]

They are changing all ships other than DDs to have no spotting at all and having to rely on radar or DDs (who will just keep sitting in smoke and yelling like they do now).

[@Angeltrust76]

Wargaming idea team: guys if we buff the ASW then the players won't be mad about submarines anymore! Top wargaming team: what a great idea! We see nothing wrong with that!

[@jaywerner8415]

Meanwhile the Submarine Captains be like "Why have you FORSAKEEN US?!"

[@hornm67]

Newb question, what is ASW?

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303]

Anti-submarine warfare. It's either the aircraft battleships and large cruisers have or the explosive barrels on the rear of destroyers and small cruisers

[@vivekpatel3752]

I think this is because minefields are coming n only depth charge can destroy mines... zWG knows this so they are buffing surface ships

[@stevepeterson6070]

DDs will never be a good way to eliminate subs, no matter how much damage the depth charges do, unless they change it that the sub cannot detect the DD for his team.

[@RUHappyATM]

The other is the amount CV damages with one torpedo run. And 2 torpes per plane, WTF! Edit: I remember the times when the Ohio has an AWS range of only 6 kms...LOL.

[@xPureNRG007x]

CVs need to be nerfed so hard they end up in World of Warplanes where they belong.

[@Daigar]

Just nerf CV torps so they do as much damage as DD torps. Oh, wait...

[@quor2243]

WG seems to be swinging for the fences with the changes to subs and ASW/depth charges. They should do smaller changes then back off and let the player base get used to it, then another small change, etc., etc. I get many players want to believe subs and CVs don't exist as their gaming skills don't pass rock paper scissors, but these ships are not going anywhere and should not be balanced on misguided hate. It's kinda sad that many World of Warships players are naval warfare fans, yet they hate subs and carriers, just odd.

[@xPureNRG007x]

Subs don’t bother me at all, easily countered once you play as one to understand what they are capable of. CVs are game breaking. It is my strongest class by far in WR, not even close. And by PR I am a BAD CV player, PR is 638. Spotting is the biggest culprit. CV play rewards even average players in ways no other class gets. You have to be a really bad player to lose CV games consistently. I went 20 battles in Ranger without even losing a game. 80% in Shokaku. I am a terrible CV player and was able to do these things. WR in subs was 23%-30% T6-T10 all lines.

[@craigalexander966]

Considering it takes 20+ hits to sink a sub this is more of balancing than a buff.

[@TheMietek15]

Hits from what??

[@cyberwaste]

But did you -1 the Gearing?

[@xPureNRG007x]

He did, that’s why he cut off the video as he went to Team Score. I’ve played with that Gearing player plenty: he is awful and toxic to boot.

[@Ilias_Goddess]

WG: we buffed asw : also wg: we stalth buffed subs speed by 100% and torp damage by 200%

[@Daigar]

That would just turn subs into destroyers that can be damaged in more ways than actual destroyers can.

[@rustysimonds5011]

Be careful what yoy wish for,

[@exoterric]

When only 1 out of 100 subs are even attacked with shipboard ASW, what exactly is this changing?

[@Daigar]

DDs were complaining that they could not oneshot everything as fast as they'd like to.

[@mrsmith6694]

The downfall of all video games is "bad game play" which Subs injected into this game. So no amount of lipstick you put on this pig is going to change the fact that if a Sub targets me I have to ignore the entire game, positioning, strategy to play some stupid mini game of hide and seek with a Sub.

[@kreuz8170]

Make em unplayable. You can then phase them out AFTER player base quits playing them. BRILLIANT!

[@davidturner6995]

I fire my guns , detectable for 20 secs .Do the same to subs , ping and detected for 20s

[@guigo4479]

A ping is from a sonar, it is a sound you are not even supposed to see it. But a gun firng is a whole other thing, that you can see from miles away.

[@davidturner6995]

@@guigo4479 Really , i didnt know that ?Strange that you can hear sound even better in water So wow is an accurate representation of real life .OMG , not like dds had ASDIC to help detect subs . Subs are totally un realistic .All i was looking for was to balance out detection so it was fairer .Give dds the means to accurately detect subs .

[@guigo4479]

A solution for ultimate realism would be to remove guided torps and give them proper DD torpedoes without any arming range since irl submarines usually launch their attack from about 2 km away from their target. To balance it, WG could slow them (the sub) and their reload time. But i srsly doubt players will stick to this version.

[@davidturner6995]

@@guigo4479 Just give dds ASDIC , hedgehog and stop submerged subs being faster than my dd on overdrive

[@guigo4479]

@@davidturner6995 well actully, hedgehog would be a fine addition. Exept the 4501, no sub is faster than a freaking dd when submerged, and asdic would be hard to balance imo. The problem here is that submarines being spotted at less than 3km is a dead submarine, because it basycally can t do ANYTHING to you (exept ramming maybe?). And at tier 6 and 8 they cant escape because they are to slow. I wont speak for rank 10, because i m not used to this tier yet, but i do have noticed that subs are much more nimble than 2/3 tier below

[@ifax1245]

We want Hegdehog and FIDO...

[@RadoGG]

Wait, do they buff ASW without rewarding the subs any buffs at all?!?!?! Well that's something new!

[@xPureNRG007x]

They are doing this before Soviet subs are released. This should tell us something!

[@alansalsbery3290]

Rofl, the nerfs and buffs are BALANCING the subs. Seriously, this makes it way less likely that 1 sub can wreck an entire flank of the enemy just by being there. Good job WG!

[@mrtspence]

Subs are definitely unplayable trash now and this will only make it worse. So if that was Wargaming's goal, then it has been achieved. Hopefully they just go back to the drawing board and figure out a way to make them work.

[@herrhaber9076]

Wont change that it's impossible to aim with the pan-european dd's :)

[@jbatina]

It doesn’t matter. There still will be detectability issues. There will still be incessant pinging, which by the way isn’t affected by RNG. There will still be the ping markers that are very inaccurate. There still will be the issue of having to use dcp to defeat pings which leaves you completely vulnerable but can still get pinged not very long after using it So I’m sorry that these changes don’t put a smile on my face. I guess that I’m the definition of insanity, keep playing this game and hoping for different results

[@xPureNRG007x]

Pinging should be removed from the game, or given to DD players to spot a sub with. Homing torpedoes should be found only on maybe 2 ships. But I should advise you: bad sub players ping. Take advantage of this because it gives away their appx location. Not as great as a Halland using his guns, but it is still the mark of a bad sub player and you can use this to sink them.

[@ArterialCanine]

Massachusetts?

[@Thor_Asgard_]

Subs are even worse than the worst times we had with cvs

[@fresshell3411]

dumb

[@xPureNRG007x]

Delusions are being experienced here.

[@Thor_Asgard_]

@@xPureNRG007x Why are you experiencing delusions my poor fellow?

[@fresshell3411]

subs get spotted by CVs , DDs , any island camping commie with radar and get ASW planes dropping depth charges on them second they get spotted while CVs are sitting in corner of map spotting everything and have He/AP rockets, torpedoes , He/AP bombs so if youre worried about subs youre just stupid okay

[@xPureNRG007x]

@@Thor_Asgard_ My delusion was thinking subs were worse than CVs: because CVs still make this game much worse. Even playing as the dreaded Subs of your / my nightmares, the CV trolls his way into ruining games. Passive spotting is the worst aspect of many nasty tricks the evil CV has been gifted.

[@xzarial6652]

Huge changes for dd

[@Mr-Nuke.]

I think wargaming is not happy with the playstyle subs have adopted. Instead of being close to other ships i think they are trying to encourage a more stealthy long range playstyle.

[@SuperCrazf]

No wonder submarines are not getting nerfed (aside from the recent changes) they keep dying to asw that is now more potent 😂😂

[@Daigar]

Ah yes, just another destroyer buff so that they can dominate the game even harder.

[@angel_of_death_666_]

So they can give us better ASW for their beloved subs, but not better AA for their beloved CV's? 🤔

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303]

CV changes are coming on the 12th

[@angel_of_death_666_]

@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 Yeah, but they are all about the CV, not defensive AA. 🤔

[@caniconcananas7687]

Changing the amount of damage that the explosion of torpedoes can do makes WoWS a fantasy game. As it was fantasy to give so many WW2 era ships the so called "air strike ASW", with a plane moving just some nautical miles to drop depth charges every several seconds. What WG has to do is to model properly submarines: No acoustic homing torpedoes, not the same speed at periscope depth than at the surface, much more time underwater, no exact underwater location of targets as sonar didn't work like that, torpedoes loading after minutes of hard work... That is, the booooring experience of having to sail to get into position during hours and hours to ambush any other ship or even giving up a target because is too fast to be chased. Whoever has played any submarine simulator only can feel pain when watching how WG has spoiled the game introducing wrongly simulated submarines. As they ruined it when filled the sea with small islands to hide behind them and make indirect fire on the enemy. What stupid fantasy game!

[@alextheconfusedfox4118]

That Gearing player makes my blood boiled

[@deadmanschest4322]

yeah... from the moment the Petro was destroyed... his play style was a big disappointment

[@MrBreakdownBoy]

Less subs equals better gameplay.

[@thelonelyturkey7902]

This will make subs absolutely useless in close range. If they are going to do this then they should give torpedo teeth back. I already see enough problems with them at close range before they got rid of the damage. If they wanted underwater destroyers they should be able to hit just as hard if not slightly less. I understand the people that didn't like shotgunning subs and I did not agree with removing the damage so they become ram boats at close range but now they will be completely defenseless under 4 km

[@LooxJJ]

WG introduced CV and Subs to one of the best naval game - and completely ruined it. Now it’s rather too late to bring those who left the game back.

[@scootypooper]

hello

[@tomashermann2994]

what about druid or even vampire (tier 10) vapire have some worst asw at the game

[@xPureNRG007x]

You are talking about ships that routinely win 1 on 1 gun duels with BATTLESHIPS! Buff them only after you let their victims be able to do actual damage in return. Maybe give the Mogami turrets on the side of Yamato Mogami’s accuracy? Or the 2 FLETCHER CLASS DDs on the side of every US BB the same accuracy as the actual Fletcher in game?

[@davidconlin32]

hey can you do a battle with gnusnhoer german battle ship im not good at spelling also is new your the same as texas

[@meganoobbg3387]

What's there to like - nobody plays DD's anymore thanks to CV's and subs. The few who do, die the first minutes of the game - never get to use their ASW. Even good DD players that can survive, barely ever get to use it.

[@xPureNRG007x]

Most of my games have 3-4 DDs in them. Solid points regardless. I think WG has something in matchmaker that directs certain ships to certain matchups. As I-56 I see a surprisingly high number of 2xCV+3xSub matches. As D7P or Kidd I might see a CV 1 in 10 matches, and never a dual CV match.

[@Daigar]

There's 4 DDs in every match and you only get a CV every third match or so. Are you high?

[@torlekjpec5708]

Difference from random matches and coop matches

[@Daigar]

Damn, you think that guy plays coop? He should've said something. ​@@torlekjpec5708

[@xPureNRG007x]

@@Daigar Did you really not read the whole post there? Literally spelled out when and how. If I’m high, I’m not the only one lol!

[@scottie6302]

I like subs and i can work with the 3klm thing but you might as well take them out of the game now as its bloody hard to even get a hit. cheers war gaming for wasting my time

[@Dirkdaring44]

Yep, people don't understand subs at all. They think subs are trashing everyone, not even close. Torps are stupidly easy to negate if you have half a brain. And now that pretty much everyone, again who isn't brain dead, can read direction ping subs are dead if they ping to use guided torps.

[@privateer9181]

WG prolly realizes subs hurt the game by making it a weak class they will deter people playing them thus taking them out if the game without taking them out of thr game

[@Slapdash1]

I don't want ASW buffs. I want the unfun element gone from the game.

[@fresshell3411]

doubt they are gonna remove CVs

[@Daigar]

Not possible, they will never remove DDs.