Will Finland Leave the War? - WW2 Special Documentary

[@WorldWarTwo]

So. Is Finland an ally of Nazi Germany? Well, we've actually investigated this issue before, check it out here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jai6e2WkqrZnqrM JOIN THE TIMEGHOST ARMY: www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory

[@Banana_Lord]

Sota jatkuu lapissa ;(

[@garethfergusson9538]

Dammit I always miss these!

[@Yamato-tp2kf]

I would love to see a special about the Portuguese and Spanish "neutrality" situation... that would be great!

[@Yamato-tp2kf]

@@davidw.2791 Oh... I never heard about that... Interesting... I will check out about that event... And yes, Goa was a Portuguese colony at the time indeed...

[@Yamato-tp2kf]

@@davidw.2791 And they were the ones that got out of the war better than the other "allies" to the Germans, they did become a communist regime, they maintained a neutral stance until last year!

[@amyf6786]

My grandfather fought in both wars: Winter war and Continuation war. My grandmother was taking care of 6 children including my mother. My mother and her two brothers were send to Sweden to be safe as a war child. My grandfathers brother was killed in action but my grandfather stayed alive. He was kind and friendly, he took us grand children to fishing every time we visited grandparents. He had nightmares for the rest of his life, the war letf its marks. I want to pay respects to all the veterans of war. Because of you we live in a free country 🇫🇮❤️

[@HistoryMadeSimple90]

That's an incredible story and even if you're not religious, I hope he is well in heaven.

[@RiasSenpaiTheWallet]

Damn, my grandpa didn't have any nightmares after the war, not that anyone in our family knows of. He always told me stories about the continuation war and how a grenade/ explosive blew up next to their camp, killing his two fellow soldiers on both sides.

[@patrickhutchison6465]

Finland is one of the most interesting nations to take part in this war. The only Democracy fighting with the Axis. Yet so many World War Two narratives pass them over as if they were irrelevant. Thanks for the great special.

[@samuelattas3864]

Yes and Finland had a smal jewish minority fighting in the Finnish army, on the axis side, as equals. That really makes Finland stand out In the crowd.

[@Aarne210]

​@@MarinealverFinland's leaders were actually elected in free elections.

[@penttitapper]

We are enemies with the russians. Russians remember Finland is the only country resisting them

[@SteamboatW]

​@@Marinealver Stalin wasn't elected in a Democracy or even with a "real" voting process. He was effectively elected by himself. Hitler was elected in a Democracy that he then promptly abolished. Finland was a democracy, and still is. That is a big difference.

[@willkettle3959]

@@Marinealver hitler wasn't elected, he was given power by franz von papen

[@brokenbridge6316]

Finland in WWII will always be seen as a unique participant.

[@Perkelenaattori]

I have to say that you guys at Timeghost should make a poster with that picture of a cigar smoking Mannerheim. It's remarkable.

[@enjufi]

It's a badass shot!

[@kirbyculp3449]

Look for the Mercedes-Benz WWII poster.

[@SuperCompany007]

I have to say Indy pronounces Finnish names suprisingly well!

[@janelavie4115]

Only two European countries involved in WW2 stayed as parliamentary democracies troughout tho war, UK and Finland. Being a small country ”on the wrong side” and able to do that was an amazing achievement.

[@henriikkak2091]

Finland was always on Finland's side. It's a shame that no one else really was.

[@finntastique3891]

That's right. Also, only three European capital cities of nations participating in World War Two were never invaded; Helsinki, London and Moscow.

[@mathieu564]

A very good episode. The finnish involvement is rarely shown in documentaries about World War II.

[@benzo4504]

I feel like the Chinese-Japanese front has not been covered for a long time. Maybe a special about that? As always, the quality of your videos is on another level. Love this channel. I always recommend it to people.

[@ScooterWeibels]

It's been quiet for a while but it's going back to action soon. A good view of China inside the United Nations alliance is covered well in the book "Forgotten Ally".

[@WorldWarTwo]

We' ve said it many times, the front is stagnated. If there are news, there is coverage

[@worldofdoom995]

Its gonna be a stagnate front since Japan is busy trying to hold onto the Pacific islands. Expect more coverage in Mid-April.

[@totalwar1793]

Until Operational Ichi-Go, nothing happens on the Chinese-Japanese front

[@maxsmodels]

I can't think of two countries whe drew a worse geographic lottery than Finland and Poland.

[@Lonovavir]

Poland got it worse. Finland barely survived the war intact while Poland was conquered twice and occupied by the Soviets until the late 80s.

[@Unknown1355]

Poland is right on the European Plain, Finland at least got plenty of lakes and deep forests to hinder any advances. Plus the Nordic winter doesn't treat the unprepared well. Poland however does have the economic advantage of being next to central Europe's economic power houses, which is helpful when they also are in the EU and NATO. Not so much when your neighbours are less than friendly.

[@jokemon9547]

What do you mean? Finland and Poland are geographically very different and Finland is much better off due to the forest and bodies of water covering most of the country and the climate as well. The pre-Winter War border also forced an enemy, that being the USSR, to be bottlenecked through the Karelian isthmus as well. This is partially why the idea of Greater Finland was popular around Finnish independence, as stretching Finland east would have allowed for the so-called "3 isthmus defense", with the border running between the Gulf of Finland, Ladoga, Onega and the White Sea, where an enemy would have been forced to attack on the isthmuses between these bodies of water.

[@henriikkak2091]

I would rank them as follows: 1. Ukraine because both the Germans and the Soviets were after the territory 2. Poland 3. Belarus 4. Tie between Baltic states Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia Finland I would rate 7, tops. There are Central-Eastern European countries competing for that spot, and that's just Europe in WWII context.

[@juocyjay5732]

These are the best pronounciations of finnish names by an american ive heard, good job👍👍

[@Sergi88998]

Man, I love these specials episodes. As a Spaniard, I would really like to see one about the "adventures" of the spanish blue division, barely mentioned in the main episodes. Thank you for your amazing job!

[@briceoka5623]

Interesting to learn that Germany is still industrially strong enough to supply itself and Finland with weapons at this stage of the war! Thank you for the back to back upload days!

[@nodirips_8537]

No Pzkpfw V (Panther) or VI (Tiger) for Finland. The FAF is currently operating Bf 109G fighter planes though.

[@brownmold]

That is a debatable point. They are still manufacturing. But not enough. Not enough quality, not enough quantity. There are shortfalls of everything.

[@McSlobo]

@@nodirips_8537 To be fair Finland's terrain is not exactly well suited for heavy tank warfare.

[@nodirips_8537]

​​@@McSloboiterally hundreds of lakes and wooded areas, it must be very different to fight in winter or in summer. On the other hand the finns did use AFVs like captured soviet T - 26s and Stug III produced by Germany

[@soapycactuses9281]

@@nodirips_8537 Later Germany would provide some Faustpatrons and the 303rd stug brigade during the summer 1944 fighting as well as the Kluhmei(Sorry for butchering name) luftwaffe detachment. But for a time they stopped all economic and millitary aid to Finland when in spring of 44 they were considering of breaking ties for the first time.

[@indianajones4321]

I feel like Hungary could also get an episode like this because of the situation from being with the Axis to being occupied with a puppet regime. Not saying you guys need to make an episode for Hungary (I know there’s a lot to cover in WW2 and people might think since Hungary gets an episode then all belligerents need an episode). But it would be nice to see an overview of what happened in Hungary across these past few months. Thanks for all your hard work WW2 team!

[@Zen-sx5io]

Agreed, Thailand already got an episode over a year ago.

[@jeffreyhornblower6515]

Ya, it would be nice, but it's a lot of research and filming, plus with it being 1944 gonna be a busy year, for them considering D day is happening

[@indianajones4321]

@@jeffreyhornblower6515 100% true, 1944 is a massive year for WW2 even without D-Day

[@penttitapper]

​@@indianajones4321 Finland is not a coward nation. Hungary betrayed us and they will pay

[@JohnJohn-pe5kr]

@@indianajones4321 we need something on Bulgaria too.

[@johnt.4947]

Thank-you for this video. As always, quality stuff. For context; I'm a 2nd gen Finn born in the US, on my Father's side. He served in USAAF during WW2. At 8:10, could you not have found a more flattering photo of Mannerheim? It did make me laugh, so thanks for that! Maybe that was a typical look for him?

[@samuelattas3864]

I think the old marshal looks rather cool and bussines like on that photo. I'm born in Denmark but my mother had to flee the Karelian Isthmus in 1944 when she was three years old, leaving her father behind who fell in the battle of Viborg bay that same summer..

[@salsheikh4508]

Hope you get a million subscribers this year Indy

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you

[@dianeduffcroop8158]

I'm a huge World War II buff and I just stumbled across your remarkable Channel! I love your presentation of the reporter of the era dishing out the news to us! Really well done and really nostalgic. I love it! So I'm a new subscriber and I've already liked, subscribed and shared to several of my friends! Looking forward to your new releases! Your friend Jim from Seattle 🎉❤

[@WorldWarTwo]

Welcome to our channel!!!

[@franklinclinton4539]

Finland is a sort of sad example of how a country can win every battle but lose the war. There is a saying in Finnish which translates to: "A Finn can defeat 10 russkies! But what about when the 11th shows up?"

[@midsue]

Agree Finland won almost every battle in the winter war (1939-1940) and continues war (1941-1944) but still lost the war's, because the Soviet Union was a superpower (plenty of recourses, people, territory and weapons) and Finland is a small but strong country in spirit. But Finland won the Lappland war (1944-1945) against Nazi-Germany, but sadly most of northern Finland was burnt down 🔥

[@lembitmoislane.]

It’s not a sad example. Look at Romania and others. Finland as a small country was able to independently preserve it’s independence, political, economic, and cultural institutions. Compared to all of the other realistic outcomes, what Finland had was the best realistic result.

[@Cyrenetes]

Yksi Suomalainen tappaa kymmenen ryssää: ei taida riittää, johonkin se tyssää. One Finn kills ten ruskies: doubt that's enough, you'll hit a wall eventually.

[@mikaleppakoski5113]

Finland 🇫🇮 is very happy 😊. ½-millions foes 6ft under

[@Lonovavir]

Victory was not being turned into a vassal state of the Soviet Union.

[@iamnolegend2519]

Neat. Unexpected special!

[@rabihrac]

Astonishing explanations! This is one of your best-off Specials, in my opinion, Indy. Cheers to how you make the subtle nuances of international relations comprehensible and exciting in your storytelling!

[@henryclaudia5477]

Thanks!

[@teemukaikelsvitch8858]

Finland was The only nation during ww2 what fought against The allies and Germany, and was not occupied

[@niklasvonschantz7912]

Thanks for shedding light on the Finnish situation! Hope to see more coverage towards the summer, as I hear the Soviets might be planning for a big offensive then. Let's see if that comes to be!

[@scottmwilhelms2437]

Hey now no reading ahead nor spoilers. 🙈😄

[@Lonovavir]

Are you getting spoiler alerts from that Bletchley Park operation the British have?

[@scottmwilhelms2437]

@@Lonovavir Someone's getting some Five Eyes intel... oops that doesn't exist yet. 🤫 Or does it? 🤔🤷‍♂️

[@MrHockeycrack]

No no, the war will be decided in the "Great" Race to Berlin. Why would mighty Generalissimus Stalin sacrifice blood, lives, time, money and material invading Finland, a side stage?

[@scottmwilhelms2437]

Trapped between Hitler and Stalin, talk about a rock and a hard place or perhaps a concentration camp and a gulag. 😳

[@McSlobo]

Sisu, perkele!

[@RoyalMela]

That is what Stalin did to ethnic Finns in Karelia. Tens of thousands finnic people in Soviet Karelia were sent to gulaks or killed.

[@MrHockeycrack]

Well, that's exactly what happened to whole Eastern Europe, Konzentrationslager or Gulag, plague or cholera. Read "Bloodlands - Europe Between Hitler and Stalin" by historian Timothy Snyder. It's rough reading.

[@scottmwilhelms2437]

@@MrHockeycrack Perhaps someday, my depression forces me to be careful in what I expose myself to. I'm already too "woke" to, I'm sure merely the surface of, humanity's dehumanizing behaviors.

[@MrHockeycrack]

@@scottmwilhelms2437 I must admit that I myself couldn't read it to end, just until about 10 million corpses. It's a large book, truly devastating, but it helps to understand Eastern Europe today.

[@Zetecci]

It would be nice, if you could make a special episode about Finland after Winter War and another episode about Continuation War. 😀

[@Perkelenaattori]

Beyond the first offensive phase it was mostly defensive. Then massive battles in 1944 which I believe we'll see in the weekly episodes. The home front had a big famine during the winter of 41/42 which modern day Russians are now rewriting into "Finnish warcrimes" in their new Z- interpretation of history.

[@Zetecci]

Yes I know finnish military history quite well. I'm finnish and I really like Indys videos and I'd like to watch special finnish episodes as well, because winter war episodes were awesome. I've been watching these week by week WW1, B2W, and WW2 videos since 2014. :)

[@MrHockeycrack]

@@Perkelenaattori Famine is a bit too much said, but certain shortage of food, yes indeed.

[@Perkelenaattori]

@@MrHockeycrack We would've had a widespread famine without massive German food aid and even with the aid, we had people starve both in POW camps and civilians. Reason was because the harvest of 1941 was basically a catastrophe.

[@thcdreams654]

Always top quality content. Thanks man. Love everything you and the crew produce.

[@calbackk]

Thank you for this highly interesting special epidode. You manage to always find new angels to the events you are covering. 👍

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you for the support Christer!

[@ricklyle3739]

Excellent content. I really enjoy your input & analysis of these “sub plots” of the axis & allies. Thanks

[@esak1880]

Great episode. I will wait the next one which could be the biggest nattle ever in the nordic and that is Tali-Ihantala 1944

[@jasonmussett2129]

Another great episode 😀

[@alexamerling79]

If Finland leaves, than army group North really will be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[@spikespa5208]

And it most likely isn't going to be pretty when they retreat.

[@Perkelenaattori]

@@spikespa5208 It's not also going to go well for northern Finland. Me thinks plenty of matches will be thrown around plenty of wooden houses.

[@gargravarr2]

And if army group North retreats from Narva and Estonia, Finland will be vulnerable from the South. If the Soviet advances continue, this can turn into a dangerous game of chicken between the Germans and the Finns.

[@scottmwilhelms2437]

Or a cold place? 🥶

[@scottmwilhelms2437]

​@@gargravarr2 Remember no reading ahead. 🙈

[@anttibjorklund1869]

"Finland, Finland, Finland! The country where I quite like to be..."🎵🎶

[@UnclePutte]

As grim as those days were, we can today open our maps and conclude that where Finland still stands, the Soviet Union and the German Reich have both met their just and gruesome ends. It was the deserved outcome of the Molotov-Ribbentrop.

[@EdEighty6]

Awesome picture of Mannerheim with cigar :D Where did you find it?

[@roymartin500]

Great job!

[@jonnmostovoy2406]

Indy wants us to send gifts to him on Sep 28th :)

[@Southsideindy]

Too obvious? But yeah.

[@nygarmik]

As a Finn, I very much approve this episode.

[@nygarmik]

...aaaaand good job pronouncing our notoriously difficult names.

[@WorldWarTwo]

Thank you

[@MulderStarling]

I bet it's gonna be whitewashing the alliance with fascism if a Finn likes it

[@ralphgreenjr.2466]

Karl Gustav Mannerheim, "The Greatest Finn of them all." He danced the death dance with the cobra (Hitler) and the scorpion (Stalin) and won! The only country to ask the germans to leave and they did. He was the only German ally that was able to negotiate a peace with the Russians without being occupied. One of the greatest statesmen of the 20th century.

[@caryblack5985]

Incorrect. The Germans did notleave voluntarily. Have you heard of the Lapland war that devastated northern Finland when the Finns chased the Germans out of northern Finland?

[@modest_spice6083]

​@@caryblack5985 they even lost Petsamo to the Soviet Union for asking for peace in the Continuation War. Allying with fascists only brought Finland more shame and humiliation.

[@jounisuninen]

@@modest_spice6083 How about Soviet Union allying with fascists in 1939? When Russia attacked Finland 30 Nov 1939 it was supported by Nazi-Germany.

[@modest_spice6083]

@@jounisuninen And what did it brought the Soviet Union? All who allies with the fascists will eventually be fucked.

[@gunman47]

Great suspense on this Special video here Indy & team. Will be interesting to see in the next couple of weeks how things will play out...

[@HistoryMadeSimple90]

this is a genuinely amazing video!

[@naveenraj2008eee]

Hi Indy Another wonderful special epsiode. Nice to watch. Thanks.

[@maygeror]

such good content... Kiitos. Share this link widely!

[@grevberg]

I've been to Rovaniemi A town in northern Finland, not far from Haparanda in Sweden. A town that the Germans burnt to the ground on the way out of Finland.

[@mattw785]

These vids are gret - all of them. Going through the whole series. Will Korean War be done at some point?

[@WorldWarTwo]

Good luck doing so! Yes, it will! -TimeGhost Ambassador

[@mattw785]

@@WorldWarTwo Great. looking forward to it. I download the vids and listen to on the train.. keeps me sane!

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

During World War II, the Lapland War saw fighting between Finland and Nazi Germany - effectively from September to November 1944 - in Finland's northermmost region Lapland.

[@MrHockeycrack]

No way! You spoiler.

[@jounisuninen]

From September 1944 to April 1945.

[@JPriz416]

There was a man who served in the Finnish army against Russia, served in German army against Russia and fought for the American army in the Korean war and in the Vietnam conflict.

[@mikaleppakoski5113]

3xArmy Captain indeed.

[@vksasdgaming9472]

Lauri Törni, anglicanized Larry Thorne. He was one of those Finns say "sotahullu". That loosely translated it means war-happy.

[@scottmwilhelms2437]

So a true product of his environment. 🤔 No insult intended yet that sounds like a deeply depressing life. 😨

[@pasinylander9074]

He served as Waffen-SS captain

[@JPriz416]

@@scottmwilhelms2437 he only joined the Germans to fight the Russians.

[@kf7mjf]

I own an NFA registered Panzerschreck that was one of the roughly 1500 sent to Finland in 1944.

[@clarkstartrek]

By this date in the war the Soviet Union cared little about anything. They were looking to the end of the War, and its aftermath: the Occupation of most Eastern European Countries.

[@pauli311-p3k]

Please create a video on the Munich agreement and Occupation of Czechoslovakia 1939

[@Southsideindy]

Go watch out between 2 war series on TimeGhost history. We covered all that.

[@Hilts931]

You look great for 79 years old, Indy

[@Niels_Larsen]

At 3:03 the frontmost vehicle, what tank is that? I can deduce the chassis is from a KV but the turret does not resemble the one that bears the 85mm.

[@pguth98]

Valentine, definitely NOT a KV.

[@AS-vb2ci]

That seems to be a British Infantry tank Valentine Mark IX with a QF 6-pdr (57 mm) gun. Many of those were sent to Russia under Lend-Lease program. Not a bad tank at all, its gun capable of knocking out even the Tiger tank.

[@Niels_Larsen]

@@pguth98 Now I see it. Thanks.

[@Perkelenaattori]

@@pguth98 Yes a Lend Lease Valentine. Something modern Russia likes to forget nowadays.

[@donaldtrump6491]

Seems to be a lend lease Valentine from the distinctive shape of its suspension with 2 sizes of roadwheels and shape of its engine deck with either 57 or 75

[@isakferm7686]

As I was thinking days ago; the german occupation of Hungary has severly damaged the realtions between Germany and its "partners". We see that now that Finland are seeking a way out and Romania feels that they will be occupied next after Hungary. Even neutrals as you mention, Indy, like Spain who withdrew the Blue Division and Sweden who closed its railroads through its borders. Is this be the prelude for the begning of the end???? It is getting excited every day :)))

[@drunkenfinnpeltsi5968]

Finland barely won the summer battles in 1944 at vtk line but still won. Lost the war but won the most battles

[@hentehoo27]

At least Finland did not have the same fate as the Baltic countries: getting occupied and people transferred to Siberia

[@lembitmoislane.]

@@hentehoo27 People who think Finland lost the wars should look at us Baltics or the larger countries down south. The wars were an strategic victory, with any defeat meaning Finland would had been made a puppet state or annexed.

[@Unknown1355]

@@lembitmoislane. It was not a crushing defeat, but it was Finland that gave land and economy away. Let alone it didn't sit at the victors' table in Paris. It was not a crushing defeat like Romania's, but saying it was not a defeat is just plain ignorance. Claiming victory is even more nonsensical, considering what the goals in the beginning were: get lands back, be safe from the Soviets. Instead we got the term Finlandization in this timeline.

[@Lonovavir]

@@hentehoo27: Or ending up like Poland, occupied by the USSR until the late 80s.

[@secretjosh5619]

​​@@Unknown1355 Finland succeeded in continuing to exist. There can be no greater victory than that over the Soviet Union. Saying they technically lost is nitpicking.

[@thebigm7558]

Why was there never a bigger effourd to cut the murmansk railway?

[@caryblack5985]

They tried and failed mostly because the Germans were not up to the fighting in the far north.

[@elbeto191291]

I'd like to see a special about Romania in 1943 and 1944, well, from Barbarossa up until now. Are they (were they ever really) buddies with Hitler at this point?

[@caryblack5985]

Yes they sent more troops into the USSR than any other ally the Germans had. They promised them lennad in the southern USSR and the city of Odessa.

[@nbhoser]

So Sept. 28 was only Indy's birthday THAT year? (5:43) When was his birthday in other years?

[@Kumimono]

February 30th. :) That's why he looks so young for 79 year old man.

[@lewiswestfall2687]

Thanks Indy

[@ewok40k]

I think someone wants to FINNISH their part in the Axis...

[@pbryan1967]

Indie was born in July 1943? 😮 Damn, son. Looking in fine shape for a 79 year old.

[@ryanrusch3976]

The more you understand how the minor powers are treated, the more you question whether or not the war will ever be worth it for them.

[@carbonara2144]

Finland was attacked in 1939 when SU was an ally of the nazi-Germany. Country would have wanted to have close relations to western powers but it was impossible. There was no choice to opt out of the war.

[@ryanrusch3976]

@@carbonara2144 i don’t think I ever claimed they could opt out, I just stated that this war will never be worth it.

[@iam5085]

It was worth it. There is a huge difference between Russia and Finland, happiness, average salaries etc (just check the statistics, compare what happened in the Baltics and Poland) and due to war reparations, the industry got a huge boost and the average life standards rose with it. At the end, you don't let anyone empty or rule your house, do you?

[@timoterava7108]

​@@iam5085 In general I agree with you. However the war reparations were a huge burden for Finland - not a "boost", which was one of the myths created after the war to make the Finnish citizens accept the new soviet-pleasing politics.

[@MrHockeycrack]

For Finland, definitely worth it. They were the real Independence Wars. Until that Soviet Union was ready to annex Finland as former subject of Russian Empire, since 1944 they settled for Finland being under certain rather loose Soviet influence, but left alone as democracy and market economy. Also the large field Army managed to protect most of the civil society from horrors of war and occupation. Great success!

[@evelk5233]

The Finland Situation great title

[@stephenwood6663]

As a side note: in the winter of 1941, the Finns took part in a joint Finno-German offensive called Operation Silver Fox against Murmansk, through which a ton of lend-lease flowed, including fully a quarter of the food, oil and war materiel sent by the Americans. Silver Fox was ultimately a Soviet victory, but by some accounts Finnish troops held control of the Murmansk railway at several points. Finland lacks the manpower to make serious offensives against the Soviet Union, but what offensives they have made have been directed against hard-to-defend parts of the Soviet supply line, and this is something which cannot have escaped Stavka's attention.

[@oleksakravchenko]

Wow, Indy's looking great for his age.

[@jakkeledin4645]

Finland was never been with Nazis if Great Britannia and USA has had viser politic. If Finland was really helped Germany, war was been 2 years longer.

[@tomhenry897]

Finland only had moderate goals Did not want to do more

[@markgarin6355]

Probably a silly question, but did any of the other Allies ever fight Finland forces?

[@Lenn998]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_EF_(1941)

[@tomhenry897]

Don’t think so But our Russian aid did

[@markgarin6355]

@@tomhenry897 considering how close the naval shipments were, landing in northern Russia...

[@sampohonkala4195]

The USA never declared war on Finland. They knew quite well that Finland was on the right side - on the Finnish side - in a weird way.

[@Kumimono]

I seem to recall UK bombed us, once.

[@AndrewSmithThomas]

"The Finnish situation as winter 1944 ... finishes." Missed an opportunity there. ;)

[@Southsideindy]

Nope. Didn't miss it, just didn't choose to take it.

[@jankowalski3496]

Sytuacja Finlandii była w bardzo trudnej sytuacji. Ale i tak lepszej niż Polska.

[@paulboakes3680]

I've always wanted to know why Sweden was allowed to remain neutral and wasn't just attacked ? It had the iron ore that Germany, Russia, France and Britain needed but nobody just took it ? Why ? Love the show and i"m so glad that you finally covered the Boer War 👍 💕 now just explain the Seven Years War and American football and all is good lol 😂 👍

[@caryblack5985]

It would be very hard for the Allies to attack Sweden with Norway under Axis conk. The Swedes supplied Germany with iron ore throughout the war so there was no need to attack. The Swedes also had extensive explosives at the mines in case someone decided to attack them they could destroy the mines.

[@WTF2BlueTiger]

Sweden is the 4th largest country in Europe at the time, occupying it would be far more costly than simply buying the goods it wanted from Sweden. Especially since after Norway, Sweden didnt exactly have any options as to who to sell to (the allies would probably outbid and buy swedish ore, but there was no route germany couldnt easily intercept after it took over Norway and Denmark).

[@gordybing1727]

One of the stories was the Goring had a Swedish mistress in the 1920's, and went personally to Mr. A. H., to argue the side of Sweden, and he agreed not to invade. (I think that is from "Eagles of the Third Reich" by Samuel W. Mitchum, Jr.)

[@Vonstab]

In a single word, appeasement. Sweden became very good at making themselves more usefull to Germans as an unoccupied country than as a conquered province of the Reich. It was not just the iron ore trade but also a lot of logistical support for the German troops in Norway and northern Finland. The port town of Luleå had a large logistics base operated by the Germans using local Swedish labour and German military officers wearing civilian clothes to provide a bit of camouflage for the violation of the rules of neutrality. The Germans were also allowed to use the Swedish telephone and telegraph networks for their communications which they happily did not knowing that Sweden had cracked the supposedly unbreakable code of the Geheimschreiber. Still there were limitations to how far the Swedish government would go in their cooperation and the Germans prepared for an invasion at least twice but always ended up having to divert those resources elsewhere. From 1943 onward cooperation with Germany was reduced as the Germans were losing the war while the Swedish armed forces had been rebuilt and expanded compared to their poor state in 1940. Instead Sweden move over to cooperation with the western allies including intelligence sharing and the training and equipment of Danish and Norwegian troops in Sweden. Plans were also made for Swedish troops to intervene in those countries if the local German forces refused to surrender in 1945.

[@SteamboatW]

@@gordybing1727 Well, Mitchum hadn't so many brain cells that it would make a difference. Görings first wife was Swedish, and he was married into Swedish nobility. Not his "mistress".

[@jackharrison6771]

I have just found and subscribed to you. Great set and WW2 resource. The USSR specially thanked Finland for not joining German invasion. It allows USSR to keep a clear route via Lake Ladoga; and break the 900 day siege.

[@worldofdoom995]

Feel free to check out their previous channel The Great War.

[@muhammadfarhun1197]

They also thanked the Finns for basically burn themselves by fighting Germans in Lapland 😂

[@aasmundhald7638]

Hello Indie and the rest of the timeghost crew, i do not know how you are going to cover the Lappland war, but i do hope that you cover norwegian ss crimes and war crimes during this period, and i especially hope you inform your viewers about how these war criminals were punished after the war, if you need any help i am more than willing to provide aid with both translation of sources and helping find reliable sources

[@mrw9044]

Thinking of the Spanish Blue Division being involved in direct action against the Soviets... how did they manage not to get declared on by any of the Allies?

[@Significantpower]

TimeGhost fans are eating well this week.

[@Nelsonwmj]

Ah yes, the German-Finnish alliance. Probably the ONLY alliance involving Nazi Germany where they actually held their allies as equal partners with equal respect and honour. I'm SURE 20th Mountain Army will find a peaceful manner to extricate itself from the far North, sent on home with well wishes from Finnish friends... right?

[@samulilahnamaki3127]

Well, to peek into future. They (Germans) did try. And Finns let them. Until Soviets were annoyed enough of that and pressured Finns to start real hostilities. Fighting would have been much less and perhaps none at all without the Soviets. Germans did however think about forcefully capturing some islands on the Gulf of Finland to help their defense in Estonia.

[@henriikkak2091]

Well, not quite. Finns aren't Aryan, whatever the hell that means.

[@MrPetteri67]

Interesting video. Some additional information, which may or may not have been in the other videos mentioned in this one. Finland had communicated to Soviet Union already in March 1943 through unofficial secret channels its interest in peace talks. Soviet reply was that only unconditional surrender would be acceptable. Naturally Finland was not ready for it, since we very well knew what that meant based on the experience of Baltic countries. Unconditional surrender remained Soviet's demand all the way until the summer of 1944 and the battle of Tali-Ihantala, in which Finns (with German help) managed (once again) to stop Red Army from advancing. Perhaps more significantly, Stalin was at the time in a hurry to get to Berlin before his western allies, so peace talks could then finally begin. In the end they resulted in a harsh peace that let us keep our internal democracy and freedom, but significantly limited our freedom to conduct our foreign policy for nearly 5 decades and partially up until February last year. Few more days and all that will be history...

[@MrHockeycrack]

Spoiler ALERT

[@blueboats7530]

What a major twist of irony: an "ally" of Nazi Germany is worried about the military reliability of the Wehrmacht

[@sampohonkala4195]

The Finnish commanders came rather early on to the surprising conclusion that Finland had superior troops. Which was strange as everything the Finnish officers knew about war and could use in training the troops was brought from Germany with the jaegers.

[@Lonovavir]

The Germans in Finland fared poorly in 1941 compared to the Finnish troops. The retreats (plural) of the SS Nord in particular made a bad impression.

[@timoterava7108]

​​@@sampohonkala4195To be precise - the Finnish troops were superior to Germans in Finland (only). No doubt the Germans would have been better in Central Europe. Not "everything" was brought from Germany by the Jaegers. Some older officers had Russian Imperial training - even from the Military Academy (not Mannerheim). Many had been trained in European Military Academies (e.g. Airo in École Supérieure de Guerre, with de Gaulle). Also Finland had experimented and developed some own tactics, equipment and methods.

[@MrHockeycrack]

@@timoterava7108 And the until recently continued tradition of brutal hazing was purely from Russian Imperial Army. Which we can see in modern Russian Army too.

[@timoterava7108]

@@MrHockeycrack There was never any "brutal" hazing in the Finnish military.

[@sealove79able]

A great very interesting video. What did you mean by fun retreat across Finland and Norway in the middle of winter? Were German troops in Norway worried about Allied landings there in 1944/45? Was there some anti nazi guerilla in Finland during the war?What produce and ores did the Germans take out from Finland?Have a good one.

[@ilokivi]

Dark humour. Winter in Lappi: cold, dark, big snow drifts and little cover from the wind which can induce a significant chill. All while lugging military equipment and ordinance and trying not to get shot at either by Soviet or Finnish troops.

[@Lonovavir]

There was no anti nazi guerrilla activity in Finland. Finland kind of switched sides in the late summer/early fall of 44 and ended the war fighting the Germans in the Lapland War.

[@sealove79able]

@@ilokivi Thank you. The Germans were masters of the blitzkrieg and breaking out of encirclements as well as making lots of their heavy and essential equipment to self destruct without firing a single shell even.So they could travel light.

[@sealove79able]

@@Lonovavir Thank you?Not even political opposition in their Parliament?

[@Lonovavir]

@@sealove79able: I don't know as much about the internal politics of WW 2 Finland. The government refused to hand its Jewish population over to the Germans so I guess that counts.

[@Yora21]

You have to know you've lost the war when all your allies are ditching you and trusting their fate to their enemies.

[@MrHockeycrack]

You have to know you've lost the war when you get all the most powerful economies against you. That happened for Adolf & Nazis already in December 1941.

[@dragosstanciu9866]

If the Soviets are clever they could abandon their territorial demands on Finland and convince the Finns to join the fight against the Axis.

[@xXxWARvetxXx]

Well, the Lapland war showed they didn't really even need to, unfortunately the Finns weren't in much of a position to negotiate, so Finland did fight the Germans even if the small number in Finnish territory

[@kirby1225]

Problem being that no way would Finland trust the Soviets or vice versa really.

[@eerokutale277]

From Wikipedia: "In Soviet historiography, Stalin's ten blows[a] were the ten successful strategic offensives conducted by the Red Army in 1944 during World War II. The Soviet offensives drove the Axis forces from Soviet territory and precipitated Nazi Germany's collapse.......................... 4. Vyborg-Petrozavodsk Offensive (9 June - 9 August 1944). Directed against Finnish forces north of Leningrad, its strategic objective was to drive Finland out of the war by destroying Finnish forces on the Karelian Isthmus and advancing to the Kymi River,[12][13][14] whereby Soviet forces would prepare for an advance deep into Finland.[15] It was carried out by the Leningrad Front and the Karelian Front.[10][16] Soviet forces succeeded in expelling Finnish forces from territory they had gained in 1941, but the Soviet advance was halted at the Battle of Tali-Ihantala. Further north, Finnish victories in the Battles of Vuosalmi and Ilomantsi halted additional Soviet attempts to break through Finnish lines. The Soviet destruction of Finnish forces and advancement to the Kymi River had failed.[17][18] An unsigned draft document called "The Terms for Finnish Unconditional Surrender" was found in October 1993 in the Russian Foreign Ministry archive, implying that unconditional surrender was indeed the Soviet goal.[19][20] While the Red Army had failed to achieve all of its objectives, the offensive nonetheless led to Finland agreeing to Soviet peace terms. On 19 September 1944, the Moscow Armistice was signed, ending the Continuation War. Stalin dubbed the operation the Liberation of Karelia-Finland Soviet Republic."

[@parshiwal887]

Was Jodel alluring Fins or German high command was really disconnected with reality?

[@francisdec1615]

Jodl was highly intelligent, but he had to preach Hitler's bullshit to Germany's allies.

[@Oxtocoatl13]

My guess is he was lying his ass off and the Finns were not buying it.

[@viceroy1980]

🎉Happy Birthday🎉

[@Kubinda12345]

This is Finnish, but not the end.

[@jayfrank1913]

Indy, do you claim birthdays in years before you were born? It seems like it and I think that it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do! :) I gives one many, many more birthdays!

[@martijn9568]

I mean, Indy is a TimeGhost, after all😉

[@candyvampire3393]

i was very concerned as a finn that hads missed something when reading the title quickly

[@lembitmoislane.]

To remind everyone, Finland considering the Circumstances won the wars. Had Finland lost the war, it would had ended up like Romania, or Hungary, or like us Baltic States. Yes they had to give up their land, but in exchange kept their independence, their political systems, their economy, their culture, etc. Just because it doesn’t mean the big country’s standard of victory where you get to parade in the defeated’s capital doesn’t mean they lost.

[@lembitmoislane.]

To give an comparison, Finland with less than four million people in an area smaller than modern Germany, was able to fight against a country greater the size of some planets (Aka Plato. It’s an dwarf planet) and survive. Romania on the other hand, a far larger country was taken over by Soviet Puppets and witnessed decades of horror with two million victims, and in the end took a revolution with a thousand dead and thousands wounded to end Communism.

[@williamthebonquerer9181]

​@@albinalligator5772 the fins only by happen stance fought the same enemy the Nazis did because the USSR while collaborating with the Nazis decided that Finland should be in its sphere of influence and they invaded it

[@SteamboatW]

​@@albinalligator5772 The Finns weren't Nazis.

[@SteamboatW]

Finland did loose the war. That counts as a loss.

[@tomhenry897]

Hey low IQ Weren’t nazis

[@nancyperryman6203]

I DO NOT like the fact that Finland sided with Germany. I also DO NOT like the fact that the western countries sided with the soviet union. Finland, like the western countries, had to play the cards they were dealt. The same was also true for eastern Europe. Hitler was a devil, but so was Stalin. I hate nazism but I also hate communism. Enough said.

[@АлександрАлександров-ж8б]

You don’t even understand what you are talking about, putting Hitler and Stalin on the same level of atrocities. Hitler is practical actions, genocide and the Nuremberg trials. Stalin is the Anglo-Saxon dehumanization of the USSR during the Cold War. And the figures of Stalin, and the ideology of communism - in general.

[@АлександрАлександров-ж8б]

Not to help the USSR? Good luck. Then you would be living now - in a completely different world, completely under the Nazi heel. Because it was the USSR that saved your asses by sacrificing the lives of tens of millions of people.

[@nancyperryman6203]

No I DO understand what I'm talking about.

[@АлександрАлександров-ж8б]

@@nancyperryman6203 "Understanding" - can be based on only 2 elements. Knowledge of the facts and propaganda. What is your "understanding" based on?

[@nancyperryman6203]

Nancy hasn't been texting, its me her husband. I don't feel like debating you. You and me have the right to our opinions. If you disagree with me, then that's your business. I'm trying to be courteous here. If you disagree with me, then just ignore me.

[@jeffersonwright6249]

This is superb historical research and reporting: I had no idea just how political WWII had become by this time

[@HeviErkka]

Nice picture of Mannerheim,never seen that before. What a character. Noble background. Russian Empire officer. Civil war leader. There are pictures of him riding a horse naked.

[@ericcarlson3746]

who was naked? him or the horse?

[@ExecutiveSonda]

Met Dalai Lama and gifted him a revolver.

[@henriikkak2091]

​@@ericcarlson3746Both

[@henriikkak2091]

The civil war bit is not something to brag about in Finland, but his achievements in WWII time are undeniable.

[@jamesharmer9293]

Indy's looking very colour coordinated in this episode....

[@creatoruser736]

Ironic. Right now Finland is on the verge of becoming part of another military alliance. And a full ally this time, not just a co-belligerent.

[@henriikkak2091]

I fail to see the irony. Look at what happened to any other country in the Bloodlands, Europe between Hitler and Stalin.

[@Kahdeksanpenninen123]

And the reason is still the same: Russia. And still I do not fully trust that Allies (Nato) would help us - last time it did not.

[@chickencharlie1992]

Oh no, not finrand!

[@BoGyokeGyi]

Hopefully Romania and Bulgaria will be loyal to Germany right? Right guys?

[@jliller]

Did the Germans make a mistake by not allocating more of their forces to Finland in 1941 or 1942 for a major offensive to seize Murmansk and Archangel, thus cutting off the main ports of arrival for Lend-Lease supplies to the Soviets? Or did logistical issues, Soviet defenses, and the harsh climate that far north make such an offensive impractical for the Germans to undertake?

[@caryblack5985]

Actually it had the 3rd most important route for lend lease. First was from the West Coast of the US to Vladivostak and by train across Siberia. Second was around Africa and then landed in Iran and by train to southern USSR.

[@jliller]

@@caryblack5985 Vladivostok would have required using almost exclusively USSR-flagged ships after Dec 1941. Did the Soviets really have that much of a Pacific merchant marine? I know lend-lease went through Iran, but that seems like such a long and roundabout route I'm surprised it exceeded North Cape. Did the greater safety make it worth it, or were there better rail connections? I'm not familiar with the railroad network in Iran, the Caucasus, or Central Asia.

[@muhammadfarhun1197]

The truth they already made headway in that year, one by one town south of Kola region fell, but mannerheim order to stop the offensive will cause whermacht to fight alone. Without Finns to apply pressure all along the whermacht also stand down. In one way mannerheim missed his gamble to cut fully the Murmansk railroad when soviet in sahmbles. One source said that US pressure the Finns stop offensive against soviet although the ironic is the US weapons , tanks , trucks, and planes that were used in offensive in 1944 against the Finns.

[@caryblack5985]

@@jliller You can see the amount delivered by looking at the map in the following article en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

[@caryblack5985]

@@muhammadfarhun1197 Not according to this article. The Germans attacked and tried a couple of times but due to inexperience in fighting in the north and poor logistics they failed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Platinum_Fox

[@sergegirard864]

Indie, isn’t September 28 your birthday every year, not just that one? 😂

[@Southsideindy]

Good point!

[@Redmanticore]

could have also mentioned the mystery of Murmansk railway, that was neither cut off nor captured and continued to operate as an important, even critical to the survival of the Soviet Union, destination for Allied Arctic convoys throughout the war.(Lend Lease that usa was giving to the soviets) because the USA told Finland not to. it is a historical fact.[1] with this, it could be, that Finland saved the Soviet Union. and with that, destroyed the Axis Powers. which might be the reason the Soviet Union let Finland keep its independence and did not commit atrocities against the Finnish people. for example at one point, Finnish units were within 30 km (19 mi) of the Murmansk railway, but were suddenly unwilling to continue the attack. [1]"On 5 November, Siilasvuo was informed by the Finnish high command that the attack should be halted for political reasons, and that no additional Finnish reinforcements would be forthcoming despite Siilasvuo's wishes. The United States of America had given the Finnish government a note demanding the attack be stopped. This had caused Finnish President Risto Ryti to express his concern over the operation to Mannerheim. " - Finnish_III_Corps_(Continuation_War) , Wikipedia strange that such possibly important decision, that possibly meant the whole ww2 result could have been decided, is not mentioned in the big ww2 discussion to usa people, nor to russian people, or to world people at large, barely even finnish people, have to be real history nerd reading finnish history to know that. perhaps on that day, it was truly decided, whether we were also going to be on the western side in the world, or not.

[@henriikkak2091]

Thanks for bringing it up.

[@Durahan82]

Shame for Finland 🇫🇮, they had a just reason to fight the Russians.

[@yankeehopper]

ADVANCE HAPPY BIRTHDAY 🎂🎂🎂

[@oliverpowell3141]

"The Finland Situation"

[@teemukaikelsvitch8858]

I live in Ivalo! 😎😎