Yamcha and Power Creep in Dragonball FighterZ

In the end, he could not escape his canon identity. Poor guy.
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Tracks -
(1) Battle of Ice - One Step from Eden
(2) The Arctic - One Step from Eden
(3) Battle of Ice II - One Step from Eden

[@MoldyBagel]

Couple people have pointed out UI's power very much exceeds 10,000,000, as SSJ was listed as 150,000,000 in Daizenshuu 7. I missed that. Kinda justs drives home my point even more though lol

[@StarkMaximum]

Power level: Maximum There, now it's always relevant (until he gets a new form)

[@MetaGamingDojo]

UI=♾

[@whodatboi2567]

@@StarkMaximum No, Broly Power Maximum.

[@notredboi]

@@whodatboi2567 *maximumer

[@camel521]

bro you and shoyoumomo need to do a collab

[@Spock1777]

I love how this mirrors Yamcha's actual story in DBZ/S. He never got weaker, everyone around him just kept getting stronger until he became irrelevant by comparison.

[@_____8676]

Kinda sad tbh

[@sarcasticsuperjerk18]

It’s crazy that he’s never _actually_ gotten weaker or was ever confirmed to have gotten weaker. Characters like Krillin and _especially_ Gohan tend to just stop training and get so weak they’re an arc or two behind where they should be.

[@phantomclippedu]

Right

[@BackOff_xd]

​@@sarcasticsuperjerk18hes just a human in-between gods.

[@Skew0443]

LMAO

[@koharuyuuki3162]

Yamcha went from a powerhouse to irrelevancy Just like in the anime and manga

[@MoldyBagel]

feelsbadman

[@boop7784]

@@MoldyBagel feels bad indeed

[@iamthehype3684]

F

[@Akodakun]

@Kayvee Sounds about right

[@joaquinperez9382]

@Kayvee sounds about all dragon ball alright

[@enzoerfe8429]

Yo this went from a DBFZ analysis to a whole class about fighting game balance. Love it.

[@MoldyBagel]

Glad you like the expansion it makes me happy

[@HCSR2]

It's a lesson on general balance. This is applicable to almost anything where choices and competitions are involved. Pieces on a board, cards, spells, any game with choices will inevitably end up like this if one option is blatantly superior to others. And the way he's explained would help anyone understand it in any scenario. Another great analysis video.

[@fancetheperson3394]

It's honestly crazy to me that the DBFZ team felt the need to nerf Wolf Fang Flash AGAIN whilst also buffing characters like Z Broly and A21 Yamcha really didn't deserve the nerfs at all

[@MoldyBagel]

oh we're gonna talk about the fucking z broly buffs one day i swear to god dont worry

[@Ender41948]

@@MoldyBagel OH BUDDY.

[@zemaculate]

@@MoldyBagel THEY'RE OUTTA HAND, MAN

[@odd-eyesvon]

@@MoldyBagel Please do, because wtf even

[@DestinyFY]

@@MoldyBagel LETS GO

[@GiovanniD]

This was quite informative actually. Overcentralization can soon ruin a game if not fixed as it could even drive the people away from the game. That's why it's important to have the right buffs and nerfs while being wary of the characters left in the dust.

[@MoldyBagel]

yeah im really happy with how this script turned out. it was the hardest one to write by far so i am glad to hear it made sense to you. Rewrote many times to try and make it as easy to understand as possible

[@noboty4168]

@@MoldyBagel as someone who only has a few hours in dbfz despite having the game from launch day, mission accomplished.

[@MadMunky20k]

Not a FGC example, but Mega Kangaskhan in the early Pokémon XY metagame was a textbook example of what overcentralization could do. The singles meta devolved into Kangaskhan and things able to answer it.

[@druidt8949]

@@MoldyBagel Honestly, this might end up being one of your best performing videos. You layout and explain the concepts so well that this video could be shared around in non-FGC communities, because they are incredibly easy to understand and apply to different games

[@erluq9309]

@@MadMunky20k Damn I remember that. Mega Kangaskhan was all you see in online matches. I was only using Kangaskhan to complete the battle tour.

[@omlett6482]

"The Ice Climbers have our hypothetical gun" is the funniest thing i've seen in a while

[@nstar674]

No matter how far he falls, I'll use Yamcha. He's just incredibly fun to play and it feels good winning with him.

[@mohsinchughtai7727]

Same, can never drop Yamchad

[@FileCorruption]

@@mohsinchughtai7727 the virgin UI Goku vs the Chad yamcha.

[@webbowser8834]

Funny enough, SSJ Vegita has almost an identical story to Yamcha. He was a solid character with a busted assist, but the assist got nerfed and after a couple seasons being "solid" just wasn't good enough.

[@afri.2843]

"hopefully one day he'll rise again" Patch notes: yamcha's assist now combos across stages

[@noticeme6412]

Yamcha’s assists now reaches across multiple universes worth of stages

[@joaquingamarra3248]

Yamcha's assist now has auto-tracking

[@vivelespatat2670]

Yamcha's assist now ignores block.

[@weeb_dweeb]

Yamcha's assist now plays the game for you

[@Borealis109]

Yamcha's assist now activates a dramatic finish on every character

[@MajinLotuss]

It’s terrifying to see yamacha with no glow up

What is glowup?

[@OnEiNsAnEmOtHeRfUcKa]

@ You know when you have like a 10-year-later school reunion and that one kid in your class that skipped every class and did drugs behind a dumpster turns out to have become a successful businessman with a beautiful wife and kids and a nice house? That kind of shit.

[@Idkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk50]

Sheesh Here I was thinking it was like UI’s fancy aura, or the lens flare eye meme or something.

@@OnEiNsAnEmOtHeRfUcKa So... ‘‘getting your shit together’’?

[@lessel3465]

@ exactly

[@sev1120]

Beating a top tier with Yamcha gives the same rush as winning a street fighter tournament with Dan

[@rydislordran434]

I main Yamcha, am steadily pink and whomp on fushions. "With hard work even trash can achieve greatness."

[@Guille-mz7xf]

@@rydislordran434 Pink Yamchas are the real underdogs of this game

[@liviekumori]

A character is as good as the person playing it

[@CommentPositionInformer]

@@liviekumori When the character is well balanced? Yes. The issue is when the character is *better* than the person playing it.

[@liviekumori]

@@CommentPositionInformer That makes no sense.

[@ooferguy1517]

This might actually be your best video ngl. The initial explanation of power creep leading into an explanation of how it shows in fighting games and how its specifically impacted Yamcha, and using that to tie into the larger discussion on buffs and nerfs and explain exactly why you can't just go hard in any one direction really flowed well in a way I can't describe. The editing was top notch as usual but the structure of the video was A1, to the point where the video felt less like it was about Yamcha and more like it used Yamcha to demonstrate a larger issue in fighting games and showed how he can be used as a direct example for why buffs, nerfs, and the keeping in mind of the fundamental mechanics of a game, matters. It really does facilitate a discussion on why avoiding overcentralization is so important and how it can really impact a game, its characters, and its community, and I think that's what you were going for so kudos to you man, it all came out super well honestly.

[@MoldyBagel]

Yeah I think it was the best script at least, it was really intimidating to write honestly as it's probably the most broad topic I've tackled. Glad the result shows, thank you!

[@edwardnygma8533]

So what you're saying is, as this is my first video I've watched by this creator, that I should stop here?

[@bernabo9115]

@@edwardnygma8533 no dude you gotta sub

[@liljamesfgc]

@@MoldyBagel nah honestly I think its at least one of the best ones you have edited as well. The intro especially shows this

[@Neoxon619]

Fitting that a fighting game based on a Shonen property would also face Shonen power creep.

[@MoldyBagel]

at least not to the same level as actual shonen

[@Neoxon619]

@@MoldyBagel True, it’s more in line with modern Shonen properties rather than the classics.

[@Deathmare235]

@@MoldyBagel it’s good power creep though there’s still some bad

[@nuredingeziqi679]

@@MoldyBagel personally I'm just a bit confused on to why One Piece specifically was shown as an example for powercreep in Shonen in that explanation, but ignoring that for both Naruto and especially DB it's perfectly spot on

[@ashikjaman1940]

@@nuredingeziqi679 I've never read One Piece but I think it was just used for it's sheer length

[@flaco3462]

I remember this one Dragonball fanmanga about Yamcha that's still ongoing (i can't remember the name) where he trained hard enough and got new moves, like learning Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade and combining it with his Spirit Ball He also learned Kaioken and I think the ability to absorb the Spirit Bomb but I could definitely be misremembering that I wish he and other characters had cool new moves or something cuz I find that he and other characters especially in FighterZ don't have many moves compared to newer ones But anyhoo It saddens me to see him in this sorry state Again. I like to pair him up with Puar and I think that makes for a happy man and not a laughingstock

[@MoldyBagel]

that sounds dope actually as a yamcha fan

[@logicaltips4107]

@@MoldyBagel it's called dbz elsewhere. It has a website where you can read it

[@noboty4168]

@@logicaltips4107 give

[@wakkaseta8351]

What's sad is that over time characters have lost moves in the show. Yamcha stopped using Wolf Fang Fist techniques from Z onwards for some reason while Tenshinhan only ever seems to use Tri-beam anymore in Super.

[@logicaltips4107]

@@noboty4168 Brooooo i keep sending you the link but i think they're getting deleted. Just google DBZ elsewhere and it should be there

[@Dextin-Eyes]

I find it funny that of all the characters to get stomped by power creep, it just had to be Yamcha. Like, Krillin and Tien are still largely viable characters but Yamcha? Just as forgotten in DBFZ as in the anime.

[@SamuSeen]

Yamcha got Yamcha'd both in anime and in game.

[@Fall-oo6mt]

This is part of why the Moro arc is one of my favorites. Yamcha straight up leads a bunch of Galactic Patrollers and kills a bunch of the Moro henchmen, he's such a badass

[@AceLeader101]

I do actually believe though, even with the crazy power creep in the game I believe he's still viable. The game at the moment is pretty well balanced despite all the crazy shit they added.

[@XernuhtZwei]

DBFZ's always been pretty good about that, even in the old days when Jiren, Videl and Goku Black were hanging out at the bottom. It's just that we've never seen as sudden or steep a fall as S4 Yamcha.

[@BigJohnny214]

Man, I didn't even knew he was so low in tier list, thought he was on mid tier. This is indicate to me how balance this game really is

[@XernuhtZwei]

@@BigJohnny214 I think it's neat that two of the most solid Anchors from older seasons are now sitting at the bottom simply because other characters had to get buffed past them... and Ginyu because he's literally too much work for the same value as killers like UI, ZBroly, and 21.

[@caldw615]

@@XernuhtZwei Ginyu is such an oddity because he theoretically has the most potential because he can outright steal a much stronger character while trading healthbars to shift the momentum a bit. Like you said he is a lot of work though.

[@joshpookie]

captain ginyu shouldnt be low teir tbh

[@HiImAiden]

That transition of manga UI Goku to in-game UI Goku was SO good man

[@zach8523]

As a yamcha main since day 1, he is still a fun character to play between all the changes.

[@MoldyBagel]

absolutely, it's just a shame he got outclassed

[@gokufromfortnite867]

@@MoldyBagel On the zamasu video I thought you were gonna talk about Yamcha at the end instead of beerus

[@theotherjared9824]

Something that was vaguely hinted at in the melee tangent is that players found ways to break the game that the developers either didn't realize was possible or didn't think was a big deal. Emergent gameplay options like this are often what truly define a game, as they are more often than not optimal strategies for those that want to win. This wasn't in a big deal pre-internet, but now developers are put in a tough place. They could patch everything out and make the game "perfect" in their eyes, but that would upset the players that like using exploits to gain a borderline unfair advantage. Once again, it all comes down to balance and how egregious things can get.

[@MoldyBagel]

Yeah I think developers have a really hard time deciding what is "tech" vs what is a bug. That's very much a case-by-case basis answer and hard to generalize as it depends on the exploit. All I'm saying is I'm glad Melee can't be patched lmao

[@Parpeing]

@@MoldyBagel saaaaame god can you imagine what nintendo would do

[@BlusterTheBenevolent]

Those asking for Melee HD are fools, they’d be setting themselves up for disappointment since not even the playerbase knows what to draw the line between a feature and a glitch.

[@renatoramos8834]

It depends on wheter the exploit benefits the game or not. For example, combos in fighting ganes were originaly an exploit but it's very beneficial to the genre, so it stayed. Wave dashing and other BS from melee ruins the game, so it was removed.

[@renatoramos8834]

@@BlusterTheBenevolent Everyone knows very well. It's just that melee fans live in denial. I do wish for a melee remaster that is actually balanced. No wavedashing and similar crap.

[@seb_masou3179]

To me, there's one other reason why Yamcha is bad, and it relates with the universal 5M buff. His 5M has more range so it's easier to land, but if you combine that with his doodoo 2M and other ground combo options, landing a 5M means that you likely get a combo that does no damage and makes you use meter and/or assists to get a knockdown. You _could_ go for a 2M instead but it has so little range, 5M is more logical to go for, but also not, and it leaves Yamcha in a bad spot

[@ebonie.harrington6192]

Don't 5m and 2m have the same scaling because I can't never tell the difference

[@seb_masou3179]

@@ebonie.harrington6192 I think so, but hitting a 5M with Yamcha from a distance greater than the 2M can reach forces you to Wolf Fang Fist, either EX to combo solo or use an assist

[@absentcoder4552]

I mean, I never really think about 2M except for when I want to pick up the opponent after a Flash. But the ability to better throw it out in neutral would be appreciated. Sure, it’s fast, but the fact that it’s his only low with the range of a 5L if even that much hurts. Sure, he’s centered around left-right mixups rather than high-low but having a halfway decent low would make him so much more terrifying. You’re kinda locked into his rekka the moment you use it and from there the opponent can really relax regarding the pressure Yamcha can impart. I don’t think that giving him a low ender would be balanced but he should definitely have a safe ender. I always figured Flash was supposed to be the safe ender, or at least 4S-Flash would be safe due to spacing. Now? He needs a lot of meter to be threatening, but he burns through it so fast that outlasting him is a non-issue if he burns through 1.4 bars every time he fails to open you up, which is every time if your opponent is able to react to everything you can throw at them. Edit: Yeah sure 4S is safe but Yamcha really wants to be in your face, and 4S just doesn’t allow that since all he has are the universal approach options. Maybe if Flash were immune to ki blasts or had a better disjoint.

[@seb_masou3179]

@@absentcoder4552 yea that's the thing, he relies on the same mix he has for 3 years, people likely are used to it by now, and if not, they will probably adapt in the middle of the match soon enough, making his mix weaker

[@swagzagoon2596]

I still main him for one reason. Spiritball combos make me feel so GOOD.

[@MoldyBagel]

dude i remember when i first started playing this game and yamcha was my first main and i tried to do the spirit ball into level 3 for like an hour and fucking couldn't. I was like BRO FIGHTING GAMES ARE MESSED UP

[@theyneverlearn3679]

I've done the spirit ball combo like twice. I felt so powerful.

[@InfraredGod]

@@MoldyBagel one of my friends just started FighterZ and decided to put Yamcha on his team (Along with Kid Buu and Goku Black cuz he a Kid Buu main). I said Yamcha wasn’t OP, but he was balanced….and then I saw this video. Oh well, only UI Goku ruins Saibamen and Earthling ranked matches anyway (cuz none of em use Zamasu or SS4 Gogeta)

[@cashewlater5317]

@@MoldyBagel me trying to combo it into spirit bomb and failing.

[@SweaterPuppys]

I fought for Yamcha my whole life and I will keep fighting for his liberation until I die

[@wnihaunter3943]

this reminds me of how parts of bardock's toolset was given out to later characters because it was so good

[@APerson-ws4cw]

I think you're using a different definition of balance to these people. They see it as balance between characters, but you also see it as balance between mechanics. You're both right, and hopefully they give yamcha some cool tools like blue vegeta did

[@kevinm1193]

Yamcha problem are not easy to fix since his 2M lack range, 5M is too slow, 5H is not good and don't allow normal combo, doesn't have a 2H in the air... Also, the scaling on his 236x series is so bad. To fix him, you would need to... basically copy/paste Gogeta SSB. Make his divekick give sliding knockdown and the ability to use his 236H after to keep combo going (which will skyrocket his damage input especially when punishing anti-air), give him a normal 5M (you can choose to delay it) and increase the distance (like SSJ Goku for instance), increase his 2M range... and give him back his 236M cross-up. Scaling on 236x should be the same as gogeta. Increase his beam speed... Well, basically, change everything... BUT give him back his cross-up :)

[@muno]

always so excited to see one of these in my sub feed!

[@MoldyBagel]

excited to get em out to ya

[@ShibuNub3305]

Holy woag

[@Mikeeeeeeeeeeeeeee3]

Yo its muno

[@ASA-ux7cg]

Solution: Give Yamaha Ultra Instinct, easy.

[@MoldyBagel]

truly terrifying

[@Burdboy14]

You can’t give him something he already has

[@DevilMarioProductions]

@@Burdboy14 But he's weak af in DBFZ

[@EaTStu]

@@MoldyBagel i think in another dragon ball game, Xenoverse 2, theres a side quest where yamcha kinda just gets insanely strong after eating fruit from the tree of might. its honestly kind of hard

[@MrWhatcat]

I teach writing for a living and this script is exceedingly tight and well put together. Excellent structure, excellent analysis. You really understand how to be concise and fun while making an argument. This is what good writing looks like, and it's what keeps me coming back to your vids!

[@youtubeneedstochange4414]

You teach writing for a living? Bro, I'm an aspiring writer and it would be great to sign up to your class in a year when I'm done with high school! If you're interested, could you perhaps provide me with more details?

[@Hugelag]

This was a very nice and informative video. I don't know much about fighting games, but if Smash has taught me anything, it's that balance is important for a game's longevity. Brawl is not a good game competitively. Aside from the tripping, the character balance is all over the place and one character standing above all of them. In a situation I don't think I've ever seen before, the community came together to make their own mod for the game: Project M. Character balancing, stage changes and they even brought back some characters. The best part was that they kept updating the game and it was pretty popular in tournaments. It was great seeing people coming together to improve a game they loved. If a group of fans can come together and improve a game, it shows how important game balance is. On a side note, overcentralization answers a couple of questions I had about the competitive scene. Great video. Also, 4:50 caught me off guard. It was hilarious.

[@MoldyBagel]

It's a shame that Smash's biggest competitive downfall is that it's owned by a company that hates it. rip project m

[@FOB0124Official]

Man I thought I was one of the few people to remember that Divekick actually existed, truly an interesting fighting game.

[@absoul112]

It's so much fun.

[@normalguycap]

@@absoul112 sounds like you still play it. But how?

[@athath2010]

I wrote up an entire comment asking why it wasn't mentioned, then resumed the video... seconds before Divekick footage was shown. :pensive:

[@absoul112]

@@normalguycap it’s still on Steam. I wish people were still online.

[@normalguycap]

@@athath2010 I do that a lot and jump the gun.

[@dark0q205]

2:53 The Vegeta voice killed me lol

[@kurizu1510]

0:22 Such a smooth transition.

[@FreetStighter]

The way the information is shown along with the game footage is so pleasing. Great job!

[@marsmonke4160]

I love how the method of balancing this game is making everything so overpowered it's balanced via pure powerhouses

[@Mister100Percent]

As the saying goes “And if everyone is super, no one will be.”

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

Unfortunately not all the characters seem to get any of that crazy OPness. That way of balancing has issues when it's not well... balanced. And mostly given to DLC characters

[@kits588]

Ah yes patch 1.3.1 is where our boy rises up again

[@SailorLarkspur]

your insight and editing are so distinctively satisfying. i could watch/listen to you explain paint drying techniques and id still have a blast

[@lucystarlight8887]

It's really weird to think that Yamcha, of all characters, was top tier when the game came out

[@kamatariedgar3603]

When he was announced people in the comments was like "Would not be funny if he is top tier?" and surprise surprise he was, good times.

[@TheWrathAbove]

Reminds me a lot of day 1 pichu in Smash Ultimate.

[@druidt8949]

It makes sense if you think about it though. The Wolf Fang style is based around fast-multi hitting attacks, so in a combo heavy game, even with damage scaling, that's a recipe for a health bar shredder

[@rogaken]

He's been top tier in other games before. So it's not really bizarre.

[@DXYS95]

Uh... He was not top tier at all when the game came out? Some characters had access to so much broken stuff that Yamcha couldn't really compare. Like 16's 50/50 from auto combo and his 236L hard knockdown, or A Gohan's insane loop damage and hard knockdowns from 214H, or 21's infinite combo. Yamcha only became S tier after most of the bs was patched out of the game, so probably at the end of season 1

[@cookiecat190]

The way you made the definition of power creep at the start showing how much a character can change over time is very clean and Imo good

[@doubleoof7907]

As Cooler said, “The weak die and the strong survive!”

[@NotTheWheel]

I simply want to applaud the level of editing you put into this video. In terms of frame transition, it's a masterwork. Not to mention informative. Well done.

[@AliasTheJ-unko]

And finally, as of today, Yamcha has finally risen again

[@Somerandomjingleberry]

It’s kind of poetic how this game and actual Dragon Ball ended up treating Yamcha the same way

[@TUCell-ps5mi]

Never thought I’d see Piccolo & Saitama in the same frame. By the way, you gave amazing taste in music.

[@MoldyBagel]

thanks brother

[@RemiAutor]

This video was wonderful. I watched every minute of it and liked it the entire time. Way to go, MoldyBagel. You made a really good video. Thank you. I really enjoyed watching that. Take care.

[@strive210]

I just found your channel and you have inspired me to get DBZ FighterZ. Your videos are easy to understand and helpful! Keep making good content king 👑

[@sir_wffles]

At this point I’m actually not sure if this video aged well or not…

[@TheVocoderGuy]

8:18 you had the harp glissando match the key of the background music, I love you :)

[@doggo4078]

Every time you put out bangers moldy I can’t believe how amazing your work and animation style is. Hats of to you again

[@MoldyBagel]

Thanks man

[@shingshing8816]

your edits continue to make me chuckle like 2:53, keep up the fantastic edits and informative videos

[@jaced8437]

I dont even play this game but your info, edits, and humor are top notch. Pure entertainment. Bravo.

[@MoldyBagel]

thanks man

[@noboty4168]

Agreed. I quit this game years ago, but I always light up seeing a MB video anyways.

[@SiriusArcher]

I main Yamcha and have played him on my team since launch, I remember them nerfing WFF: Flash and I though well damn, maybe it won't be that bad, then characters like UI and Gogeta released and I thought again, "No he definitely didn't" Its crazy how many characters have become better than Yamcha, he used to be the character that could 1v3 or just a good assist, and everything that released after they nerfed him, just killed him, its sad, but I still think hes amazing and will continue to be so.

[@monken364]

I love this type of video. As someone who loves to watch fighting games but also sucks at them and rarely has the time to practice, seeing the in depth explanation of mechanics is so helpful for enjoying the content.

[@MoldyBagel]

I'm glad the explanations were satisfactory I was worried about that

[@stormcutter59]

Fantastic video and if makes me weep for my Boi. Also the music choices are fantastic, it made me immediately go out and give a listen to One Step From Eden. What an interesting game I never even knew about.

[@caldw615]

I still really like Yamcha, even with him being on the lower end of the power scale he still has 2 very solid assist options, can still open you up with EX meter to burn and can give teams easier TOD's using level 1> Level 3. He has a LOT of competition for that though. So many characters got new supers, similar assists or just benefitted way more from the mid/anchor position he often occupied.

[@cherrydude.378]

I love Yamcha's intro so much, he was such a cool character back in DB and a bit of DBZ.

[@krimsonk-9478]

I clicked on this video out of sheer boredom, i dont even play fighter Z. But its so informative, well edited and humorous that i think i am gonna sub to the channel for more.

[@d4rkz3r011]

That was a super informative video! The One Step from Eden ost was a nice touch too!

[@pinball-wizard]

Instead of being bad, Blue Vegeta’s new joke is he’s dealing trades with the likes of Paul McCartney and Jaco Pastorius

[@axellion9951]

Heyo, saw the reference to Brawl Minus and would like to point out that the Minus philosophy, while buffing every character in the game, still maintains balance through adding new options and making sure not to overbuff certain characters. Old Minus was very competitively unviable due to a lot of reasons, but mostly balance, nowadays Minus is trying to balance within reason while still making everyone as powerful as they can be! Sorry, just wanted to point that out as while it was a problem in the early days, we now realize the effect that overbuffing has and are trying to fix it!

[@DarkThomy]

(side note, THANKS ! You made me discover One Step from Eden ost and it's AMAZING omg) Great, Great explanation of general balance in fighting games ! Very interesting !

[@cheeseisgood17]

So interesting that you brought up Melee to compare. The entire vid I could not stop thinking about how this and Melee are so technical and then Melee appeared on screen, kinda mind blowing. Amazing vid!

[@Eric6761]

Crazy how even in videogames he still gets the power creep

[@BlackerSpaniel]

Honestly I haven't played FighterZ in MONTHS but I really do hope in another patch (whenever that happens) they'd give Yamcha some of the buffer treatment.

[@RichMondGesicht]

Dude, your videos are so unbelievably well made.

[@samundef3500]

Really great video! Haven’t played dbfz in awhile but I’m still happy whenever I get to see you in my recommended

[@MoldyBagel]

Thanks

[@chris-cu3kl]

As someone who didn’t play DBFZ during it’s lifetime of balance updates, I really love your video in how it talks about the history of balance updates and discusses the issue of balancing games in the genre.

[@krullachief669]

6:15 Give the gun to everyone, I want to see Melee get into some really wacky shit with its platform fighter footsies.

[@MontageHustle]

You make super engaging videos from start to finish

[@danielsepulveda7303]

I just picked up this game like a week ago and decided to try and main yamcha because he’s one of my favorite characters in DBZ so I had no idea this was going on but I love the editing and just information in this vid keep it up! 🔥

[@RosalinaSama]

neat video, i just wanted to point out though, brawl minus is actually a lot more reasonable and balanced than the melee mod shown, would strongly recommend anyone giving it a try its pretty legit as a competitive game

[@ashikjaman1940]

It's been ages since I've seen any of it but isn't Meta Knight mostly the same?

[@RosalinaSama]

@@ashikjaman1940 hes a lot less able to camp in the air in minus, his up and down air are a bit slower but his main big buffs are that none of his b moves put him in special fall anymore and he can do each one of them once before landimg, so he has insane air combos he also has a suicide upthrow that blows you and the opponent up and kills at about 40 lol

[@ashikjaman1940]

@@RosalinaSama this is what Sakurai really wanted, very glad the modders were able to understand his vision

[@HunterForHire422]

Fighterz is honestly one of the most balanced modern FGs i can think of. Even the "worst" in this game are still good. Especially compared to a game like smash ultimate the power difference, while still there, is one that is much less drastic and still fixable.

[@MoldyBagel]

Or melee, where a third of the characters are actually completely unplayable

[@bguy6778]

Smash Ultimate Is actually considered very balanced itself.

[@Super_Suchi]

@@MoldyBagel Even Melee I’d argue is pretty balanced compared to other smash games. At least Melee doesn’t have a single character that completely dominated the meta like Brawl with meta knight or Smash 4 with Bayonetta. Sure Fox is a popular pick, but he still has his weaknesses like his fast falling speed, linear and predictable recovery making it easy for characters like Marth to edgeguard, and the lack of disjointed hitboxes besides Shine.

[@flamingrubys11]

hate to tell you but fz is far from balanced as long as juggling exists

[@bguy6778]

@@flamingrubys11 juggling -=- imbalance

[@Malusmiser]

What a great video! I knew it was going to be a bop once I heard the One Step from Eden music. Good stuff.

[@normalguycap]

This was really well made, really informative. I haven't played since year 1 and I used to play Yamaha too because I like to use unpopular characters so this was also fascinating.

[@thatonenerd9252]

Will you do more Guilty Gear character videos bcuz I really enjoyed the Sol Badguy one. I love all the videos I've seen on your channel

[@MoldyBagel]

unfortunately strive simply isn't panning out to be super popular and my motivation to play it kind of dried up fast. I haven't been playing fighting games at all outside of making videos for like the last 6 months actually.

[@spreadwuvokay]

@@MoldyBagel That's sorta sad

[@thatonenerd9252]

@@MoldyBagel are you doing videos on non-fighting games or are you going to stick with DBFZ

[@bageltoo]

My main team is AGohan, 16, Yamcha. I call it “Fallen from Grace”

[@fissilewhistle]

But Gohan is good now. You should replace him with Black, or maybe Super Vegeta.

[@bageltoo]

@@fissilewhistle Gohan in game? Totally. In Canon? Well…

[@fissilewhistle]

@@bageltoo I mean, even in canon Gohan fought with and against godly beings and did decently well. He’s stronger than the likes of Piccolo and Tien, despite not working nearly as hard as them.

[@GamerTowerDX]

God i forgot AGohan was in this game.

[@iMrPaperBagGuy]

Good educational video with historical examples to explain both sides of the nerf vs buff argument, and the One Step From Eden soundtrack? My man 👌

[@VisaCardholder]

Thank you for bringing up Melee. Can't wait for your next Ganondorf combo video.

[@MoldyBagel]

omg the ganon video 😭

[@Skel_fgc]

I’d like to add that while Yamcha WAS buffed in what I like to call “the mahvel patch” where everyone was improved to hilarious degrees, he was ALSO NERFED! They felt the need to FURTHER nerf the whiff recovery of wolf fang flash! They gave most characters full screen meterless lariats like Frieza’s 5M, but oooh nooo god forbid Yamcha have a good metered lariat.

[@dash3462]

“Do you take away the gun or give it to everyone” Yeah I think the recent patch shows that bamco or arcsys thought giving it to everyone was the better option

[@GlitchanBlack]

Bandai Namco made the game - Arc System Works just helped with the development.

[@Just.Kidding]

@@GlitchanBlack the development _is_ making the game

[@Mattmann97]

Man I haven't touched this game in years but your editing is so entertaining I end up watching a lot of these videos

[@Megapples]

"If everything is broken, it's balanced" Sonic Team : "Perfectly balanced"

[@MoldyBagel]

Sonic 06 most balanced game

[@WohMi]

5:09 i really thought Divekick was about to come up here I got so hyped lmao

[@MoldyBagel]

Hehehe

[@Shadowrayquaza27]

I've gotten used to seeing people making fun of Yamcha, and that makes me sad. Glad to see someone else who thinks he deserves more respect

[@famisepta7308]

Finally got time to check your vids again Nice content there dude, i enjoy watching how you present the whole guide and terms in this.

[@MoldyBagel]

thanks!

[@vote5man]

Great video. The One Step From Eden music was greatly appreciated.

[@noboty4168]

Never change your style. My face hurts from laughing so hard. As a Yamaha day one enjoyer, this also hurts me to my soul.

[@helloimvon]

this game made me love yamcha as a character. Will continue to play him until the game's servers shut down

[@abel8130]

Very fun and interesting video brother. There were a lot of things and concepts that I didn't know about. Keep up with the good work 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@cloudstrifevii554]

I love how you used the "One Step From Eden" sound track, very nice

[@3tailedfox706]

Amazing video once again Quick question: what are your thoughts on the most recent patch overall (Besides Z Broly buffs we don't talk about those) and what are your hopes for future updates assuming that's what Bandai means in their 8 million copies message?

[@mrunknown8335]

I really love the short history lesson you did on melee, i would love more of it.

[@UnbreakableJake]

Love your videos bro, they're genuinely insta-clicks for me!

[@Aflay1]

MoldyBagel, you are an excellent teacher. I always enjoy your videos.

[@absentcoder4552]

I mean, speaking as a Day 1 Yamcha main he can still deal substantial amounts of damage and do some pretty wack stuff if you’re really good at mixing up with Flash. The problem is that everything else is just… there. Being able to combo H into tatsu midsceen, and H into S into tatsu in the corner just ain’t gonna do it anymore. What I’m thinking is the ability to buffer the startup frames of his 5H into specials so that when he stops backflipping he can go straight into beam, Flash or perhaps he can just hold the button and land back in a neutral state. Like a command backdash with no invuln but more range.

[@MoldyBagel]

That's a really cool change. Yeah I want Yamchas gameplan to be around 5H pressure reset mix. I think that would make him more distinguished among anchors if he got really efficient resets

[@300IQPrower]

Fighting games seem to “balance” their games the way mobas and gachas do (although the latter shouldn’t even be considered games.) Early in their life there’s usually one of two clear concepts on display: making every character jack of all trades enough to work in any situation with the differences catering to a variety of personal preferences, or making every character specialized with clear strengths and weaknesses and the differences between character being entirely different playstyles. Then the power creep comes in. And inevitably it reaches this stage, where new characters have the strengths of multiple base characters with none of their weaknesses, usually more or less specialized depending on what the meta dictates is stronger, rendering older characters downright obsolete and incentivizing purchasing the newer flashier characters. Even Street fighter, the series that practically codified fighting game archetypes and the idea of clear and intuitive strengths and weaknesses to said archetypes, is doing this as we speak with that Luke twat very clearly having the strengths of both rushdowns and zoners. Part of it is certainly natural evolution of universal mechanics but there’s also a clear intent here to make new characters appealing even if it means undermining old ones.

[@MoldyBagel]

Yeah I think the biggest examples of this were UI and GT Goku on their launches. Especially GT. They removed 4 way level 3 mix and then ADDED a new character that had it even better, undermining their own balance intent

[@legojay14]

I really hope you do general fighting game explanations that aren't just fighterz. The main person I see for fighting game content is woolievs, and honestly, you explain this in a way that my brain understands

[@LeBrebaDuh]

im so glad you used melee context in this video, also I wish you made melee specialized videos, would love to watch them

[@tannokie40]

so sad that yamcha went from alpha to beta thanks to every other goku ingame

[@MoldyBagel]

lol

[@Tr0lliPop]

1:43 about "THIS WEIRD SHIT": This combined with ki charge gaining reflect property is probably the devs' way of making ki charge a viable way to deal with zoning. The opponent is spamming projectiles? Just charge ki and then suddenly GRAB THEM ACROSS THE SCREEN LMAO

[@chuleex1360]

Your edition is amazing man great work

[@legendlightningbringer1173]

That was fascinating to watch. I’d never really thought about in detail like this.