You Are Gods by David Bentley Hart. Reflections on Vedantic Christianity

[@margaretinsydney3856]

Thank you so much for this talk. I have been researching Sergei Bulgakov today, which has caused the algorithm to give me so much wonderful stuff. I'm an admirer of DBH, but I've not read this book. But I believe you have given me some tools to understand it better -- he is so difficult to follow sometimes. 😊

[@silencenow357]

What a fantastic channel this is with superb content.. Thank you.

[@EffortlessIFSwithSidFriedman]

Thank you so much for your summary and interpretation of David’s work! I took detailed notes and look forward to more. What a service you offered us in this video. Thank you for your kindness.

[@PlatosPodcasts]

My pleasure. Helps me doing it.

[@strangecore4]

Wonderful extension of your conversations with Rupert. Thank you for all the value you offer us, Mark.

[@PlatosPodcasts]

Thanks and yes, I’ve been looking for a text to talk with and take another step…

[@lindacarroll5018]

Wonderful. Thank you SO much.

[@shari6063]

“As the thoughts move in the mind of a man, so move the worlds of men and women in the mind of God, and make no confusion there, for there they had their birth, the offspring of his imagination. Man is but a thought of God.” -George MacDonald

[@phillipbrock9967]

This is big stuff, and thank you. I loved your quote of Eckhart of the “I” the looks for God as almost a mirror or window through which God seeks the “I” in return. It brought to mind something I’ve been pondering for some time, something that might have gotten me burned as a heretic in days gone by: it’s that perhaps the journey of God to Incarnation through crucifixion actually taught God about human suffering. That it goes both ways - humankind learned how to be God through Christ’s divinity; that God finally and truly learned what we experience through Christ’s humanity. That God hadn’t truly felt what we go through before the Incarnation.

[@floslavandulae4026]

I am delighted with your speech and wonderful British accent. Thank you!

[@MattFRox]

On this Sunday morning, I feel like I received a truly inspired sermon that was perfectly catered to my personal experience of transcendence

[@strangecore4]

Me too. 🎯❤️

[@KevinMakins]

The LORD delivers.

[@doug_sponsler]

"You might even say that the scientific life is not satisfying because of the science but because of what the science radiates." As a scientist (whatever that means), I completely agree.

[@Broc_S]

Thank you for this, I have been slow in reading it, now I think I can profit much more from my first reading because of your summary reflections.

[@PlatosPodcasts]

Good to hear.

[@JT-2000]

This is great thanks. I love DBH, but I find him very difficult to read. This is really helpful in understanding this important work.

[@davidgreenwood5602]

You radiate a rediscovered spiritual happiness,Mark.I am glad that you are a friend of Rupert Sheldrake and a student of the magnificent DBH!

[@gettingtogive]

Really beautiful. Thank you 🙏

[@Joeonline26]

Thanks for the video Mark. Your video gave me some great insights. I would love nothing more than a conversation between Bentley-Hart, John Vervaeke, and yourself. Hopefully that happens at some point.

[@RichardDownsmusic]

Sat Chit Ananda - Thank you Mark

[@drop6able]

Very, very much appreciated this; I shall return to it. Thank you. DB Hart has been formative in my life and ministry. I have the book but have not started it yet, and I value deeply this extensive introduction. Looking forward to the text! I also take note of important and exciting (for me) points of intersection with Michel Henry's (French Phenomenologist) works, which also make masterful use of Meister Eckhart's writings. My favorite of Henry's texts is "I Am the Truth: Toward a Philosophy of Christianity." I am finding a very profitable interplay between Dr. John Behr, Michel Henry, and DB Hart: key themes appear common to these authors and teachers, and they all point toward my own academic fascination: theological anthropology. Thank you, Mark, for taking the time to offer such a wonderful and inspiring introduction to Hart's book!

[@logos_spermaticos]

Are you Orthodox?

[@erichgroat838]

Quite agree with you about that trio of thinkers. They're stylistically so distinct from each other that when their rhyming of their unity becomes apparent it's truly remarkable.

[@richardwhiston2999]

It seems like a paradox that we often have to spill so many words to arrive at this simple Vedantic Christian nugget. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God. (ACIM) "simples innit" - Jesus Thanks for the vid Mark, the Number 7 bus journey is a trip with you in my ears.. Richard

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

?? ACIM is based around a channeled spirit calling itself "Jesus"

[@richardwhiston2999]

@@TheGuiltsOfUs the devil is in the detail. I wouldn't say ACIM is channelled material or that Jesus is the source of the material. ACIM uses symbols a separated can understand and Jesus is one of these symbols, for some students.. check Ken Wapnick for further clarification if required..cheers Richard

[@christopherjordan9707]

When suffering is explained away as "sweet suffering" it's always a subjective personal suffering. My personal suffering is never so great that it can't be managed. It's the suffering of a 6 year old child that is chained to a basement floor who's only human contact is when she is tortured and raped....THAT is the suffering that needs to be addressed. I don't think it can be properly explained. "God works in mysterious ways". And indeed many believers of karma may tell you that the 6 year old child brought it upon herself. The worst suffering in creation is not our own suffering. Edit: great work, Mark. I've listened to this twice and I enjoy so many of your other videos.

[@ralphstarling6707]

Beautiful!

[@KevinMakins]

It's really happening.

[@moesypittounikos]

Douglas Harding always quotes the Christian mystics in his books. I had no idea Christianity was so spiritual before I started reading that guy.

[@tookie36]

Sri RamaKrishna ❤❤

[@davidgreenwood5602]

Mark,this is your best!Glad you seem happy.I know,or I think,that you have been through a tough time?

[@amjrobbins]

Very interesting and helpful.Thank you for such a fluent and engaging commentary. I wonder if DBH gives any pointers as to how we, in our incipient divinity, can better deal practically with natural and human 'unlove' (sin) which is all over the news? What role for angels (if he acknowledges them)? If the 'unlove' originated with the 'bad' angels (and then us), how do we engage with the good ones and enlist their help? I guess by being more aware, and 'covering' with more love - as Paul says to Peter (1 Peter 5:8 and 4:8). Maybe I have to read the book! Thanks again for the review.

[@PlatosPodcasts]

I'd much recommend Roland In Moonlight for DBH on beings like angels and matters like love.

[@shari6063]

“For the world is--allow us the homely figure--the human being turned inside out. All that moves in the mind is symbolized in Nature. Or, to use another more philosophical, and certainly not less poetic figure, the world is a sensuous analysis of humanity, and hence an inexhaustible wardrobe for the clothing of human thought. Take any word expressive of emotion--take the word emotion itself--and you will find that its primary meaning is of the outer world. In the swaying of the woods, in the unrest of the "wavy plain," the imagination saw the picture of a well-known condition of the human mind; and hence the word emotion.” -George MacDonald

[@PlatosPodcasts]

Great Barfieldian point too on “the inside of the whole world”. Thanks

[@shari6063]

@@PlatosPodcasts yes I see how Barfield was inoculated by George MacDonald’s writings. This is from his essay titled “The Imagination: It’s Function and It’s Culture.”

[@amywas1]

Please turn the sound up. If Moses had descended from the mountain and made his pronouncements like that, we would all still be wandering around aimlessly in the wilderness.

[@PlatosPodcasts]

Apologies. Your witty chastisement should help me remember to check next time.

[@OrigenisAdamantios]

“…the Logos of the Lord came to Elias, “Go outside and stand on the mountain before the Lord; the Lord will be passing by.” A strong and heavy wind was rending the mountains and crushing rocks before the Lord-but the Lord was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake-but the Lord was not in the earthquake. After the earthquake there was fire-but the Lord was not in the fire. After the fire there was a tiny whispering sound.” 🤗

[@waldwassermann]

Vedanta = One. Christianity = Love. Truth = One Love.

[@johnstewart7025]

The way of Jesus: blessed are we who mourn, who yearn for justice, who suffer for justice, who are poor in spirit (dissatisfied / duhkha) ; blessed are those who are meek, merciful, peacemakers and pure of heart (grateful / nirvana). Each of us has a cross. If we survive our crucifixion, we will be grateful.

[@oefischermusic]

❤

[@dubbelkastrull]

59:46 bookmark

[@ianspeed2009]

Once again i really enjoyed every minute of this talk. Have you ever considered doing a bible series looking at what the bible is trying to convey to us.

[@simka321]

Fr. Alan Watts tried, as eloquently and profoundly as DBH, in books like _Behold the Spirit_ and _The Supreme Identity_, to preach the exact same kerygma to the Church over half a century ago when he was an Anglican priest. I guess the general consciousness of the world was yet too immature to accept this message en masse back then, but I believe it bears reminding the Body of Christ that DBH is neither the first nor the most articulate exponent of this view.

[@PlatosPodcasts]

That Watts couldn't find a home in the Anglican church is a tragedy. Moreover the way he writes about his departure in his autobiography feels as telling today as it did 70 years ago.

[@michaelmcclure3383]

Well, judging by the responses to this book on Christian channels, this book has really upset a few people. Its amusing to listen to them obfuscate what appears to be a very simple statement. Non duality doesn't just mean that appearances have no reality apart from the divine, but that what we are is identical with that reality. If there is some sense of being apart from God or ultimate reality, then its qualified non-duality.. not Advaita Vedanta.

[@loleki737]

It's curious that some Penteostal/charismatic televangelists have preached a little God theology.

[@tmlavenz]

Working Bibliography on Vedantic Christianity Abhishtikananda/ Henri Le Saux - _Prayer_ and others Glenn Friesen - _Abhishiktananda: Christian Nondualism and Hindu Advaita_ Bede Griffiths - _Return to the Center_ and others Wayne Teasdale - _Bede Griffiths: An Introduction to His Interspiritual Thought_ Sara Grant - _Towards an Alternative Theology: Confessions of a Non-Dual Christian_ Brahmabandhav Upadhyay Richard De Smet, SJ - _Brahman & Person_ and others Francis Clooney, SJ - _Theology after Vedanta, Beyond Compare_ and others Cyprian Consiglio - _ Spirit, Soul, Body: Toward an Integral Christian Spirituality_ Bradley J Malkovsky - Divine Grace and Sankara Julius Lipner - _The Face of Truth_ and others Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad - _Divine Self, Human Self_ David Bentley Hart - _Experience of God: Being, Consciousness, Bliss, You Are Gods_ Daniel Soars - _The World and God are Not-Two_ Anantanand Rambachan - _Pathways to Hindu-Christian Dialogue_ Kalarikkal Poulose Aleaz - _Convergence of Advaita Vedanta and Eastern Christian Thought_ and others Arjun Chatterjee - _Essays on Vedanta and Western Philosophies: Vedanta as interpreted by Sri Aurobindo_

[@discovoid5357]

Mark it seems that you were talking previously about Christ somehow being seminal to the development of the individual ; how does this fit into the vedantic conception which seems to regard the dispelling of the 'false' sense of individuality as paramount?

[@PlatosPodcasts]

I think it took the emergence of a unitary sense of individuality, following the Axial period, for the unitary sense of reality to become perceivable, the former then being seen as a reflection of the latter. Hence in Christian terms, the fully human could be known as fully divine in the incarnation of Christ, the type for all human beings, or in Vedantic terms, sages like Shankara could reinterpret older texts like the Upanishads and the Gita to present the teachings of Advaita Vedanta.

[@shari6063]

In regards to my previous comment with “human being turned inside out”…….here is The Song of Amerigan from The Book of Leinster; I am a wind in the sea (for depth) I am a sea-wave upon the land (for heaviness) I am the sound of the sea (for fearsomeness) I am a stag of seven combats (for strength) I am a hawk upon a cliff (for agility) I am a tear-drop of the sun (for purity) I am fair (i.e. there is no plant fairer than I) I am a boar for valour (for harshness) I am a salmon in a pool (for swiftness) I am a lake in a plain (for size) I am the excellence of arts (for beauty) I am a spear that wages battle with plunder. I am a god who froms subjects for a ruler Who explains the stones of the mountains? Who invokes the ages of the moon? Where lies the setting fo the sun? Who bears cattle from the house of Tethra? Who are the cattle of Tethra who laugh? What man, what god forms weapons? Indeed, then; I invoked a satirist… a satirist of wind. -R.A.S. MacAllister’s Translation

[@MrHwaynefair]

Beautiful - thanks for sharing, Shari. It somehow reminds me of Saint Patrick's "deer's cry" (or "breastplate") - Isn't it "Amergin" (not "American")?

[@shari6063]

@@MrHwaynefair yes it is Amerigan, silly auto correct! I’ll fix it. And yes to the similarity to St. Patrick’s prayer!

[@michaelmcclure3383]

I wonder if he got this title from Psalm 82. There is that famous anecdote in John where Jesus is reprimanded by the dualistic Jewish orthodoxy for saying he is one with God, or a son of God. Then he refers them to their own law in Psalm 82 where it is stated that “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ 7 But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler" This is also the main message of Jesus, so he must have been fond of this verse. Realise your divine deathless Self Nature now.. or die like a mortal.. Also, it might come as a shock to some Christians that Jesus wasn't quite the egomaniac going around calling himself the 'only' begotten son of God, but the 'only' bit was likely added on later so that such a blasphemy never happened again. That seems obvious by his reference to Psalm 82 where it says you are all sons of the most high. . So some things don't change, because he was crucified primarily for blasphemy. Ooh ok, so I wrote too soon haha. it is indeed derived from that anecdote. Regarding this two tiered understanding: I've never understood that, maybe because my earliest understanding even at age 4 was that wherever I am, everything appears. Consciousness has to be present first for anything to appear, so how can you say this is Consciousness and this isn't. its simply not possible in truth. I never forgot that, so when I first heard of non duality quite young it was it was an easy conversion.

[@ceh5526]

I think some First Temple theology might be necessary - if only to historicise the mystical and metaphysical

[@martin92177]

Brilliant. Thank you so much. I was a bit confused at first because I thought you were reviewing DBH’s new book, which I’ve just bought and much looking forward to. So I couldn’t understand why all the comments were 2 years old 😂 I hope you’ll do a review of this one too in due course (God in all things)

[@PlatosPodcasts]

Thanks. Am looking forward to reading the new one for sure.

[@franciscafazzo3460]

And how much scripture does he execute? And how does he miss translate the psalm? And how does david bellynn heart called himself anything

[@erichgroat838]

Parenthetically: Leibniz was right: there can be no potential infinity without an actual infinity...

[@Bromios18]

Did the say GodSSSSSSS?

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Then he never understood rabbi Yeshua in the first place, radical Torah observance not Torah abandonment - that was his teaching!

[@mariakatariina8751]

We are not "gods", but of God. It's an important distinction.... "Eloheimo" means, the tribe of Sun/Life/Crop

[@BryanKirch]

Shouldn’t it be spelled with a lowercase “g”

[@MalachiSpring-s1t]

Allen Carol Martin David Miller Timothy

[@Rob_132]

If all of us are gods is it so wrong to be ok with polytheism like Hinduism? All one God expressed in many Forms.

[@davidbates9358]

Who we are? Have you made the perennial mistake, right off the bat, Mark? Surely "what we are," is a prism of self-cross-examation if we want to follow Jesus in this 21st-century A.D. The Cosmos become Flesh is my Mystical experience of humanity's wisdom sayings & stories tradition. "I and the Father are One," of course. We are all children of Light & without the God-Star we would not exist, would we? Are you suffering the spiritual death of a blindingly obvious Reification Fallacy, Mark? Do you not get the meaning of the peerless Parable of the Sower? Do not understand how the Garden of Eden relates to your mind?

[@Syed_12]

( Do Christians And Jews and "OTHER" non-Muslims go to Heaven? ) Quran 2:62 '' Those who believe (in the Quran) and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures) and the Christians and the Sabians->ANYAllah< Is The Protector Of Monasteries, Churches, Synagogues And The Mosques ) Quran 22:40 [They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, " Our Lord is God " And were it not that God checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of God is much mentioned. And God will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, God is Powerful and Exalted in Might. Note: Why did Allah protected Churches and Synagogues if they worship false Allah ? ( Why Are There So Many Different Religions In The World ? ) Quran 5 48 ''...... If God wanted He could have made all of you a single nation.( ie single religion ) But He willed otherwise in order to test you in what He has given you (ie Scriptures) therefore try to excel one another in good deeds. Ultimately you all shall return to God then He will show you the truth of those matters in which you '' >DISPUTE verb < not noun like other religions Islam mean "submission" to God ( The above verse saying is that God will not accept a religion from the >MUSLIM< and the Non-Muslims but total "submission" to God ) Question: How Can Muslim And the Non-Muslim "submit" to the God? Answer: Be kind to other human beings and Do not lie, Do not steal, Do not cheat, Do not hurt others, Do not be prideful and Do the charity work. Note: If you obeyed all the ABOVE Allah-God's moral laws "YOU" submitted to God.( ie Islam mean "submission" to God ) The only people who will enter Paradise those who '' Submitted to God '' ( ie by Good Deeds ) God does NOT accept your religion of birth but only ''Your Total'' Submission to Him. ( God Allows Interfaith Marriages And Eat Food From the Christian And Jew And Vice Versa ) Quran 5:5 ''This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture (ie Christian and Jew) is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And lawful in marriage are chaste women from among the believers (ie Muslim ) and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture (ie Christian and Jew) before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless and he in the Hereafter will be among the losers.'' Note: > Only < Islam allows interfaith marriages (>14 hundredsSame God< but They are >ALL Corrupt< more or less, some more than others from their original foundational teaching. The older religion are MORE corrupted than newer religion. Question to Muslim and Christian: Does God / Allah only answer your pray ? And God / Allah does not answer non Muslim / non Christian pray? Did Allah '' Canceled '' all other religions Judaism and Christianity? Quran 5:48 '' And We have revealed to you [O Muhammad] the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture ( ie New and old Testament ) and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. >>>TO EACH OF YOU WE PRESCRIBED A LAW AND A METHODone nation>differ qualified < for to enter Paradise ) On the day of judgement God will ''NOT'' judge humanity bases on Sunni Muslim sect VS Shia Muslim sect ''NOR'' by Muslim VS non-Muslim >but< Doer of Goods VS Doer of Evils. '' YOUR " birth in the Muslim's family is NOT a > qualification < for to enter the Paradise. '' YOUR " religion / sect / foot long beard is NOT a > qualification < for to enter the Paradise. The > qualification < to enter Paradise is > Faith in God and Good Work

[@B1bLioPhil3]

Thank you so much for taking the time to put this together. Your efforts are greatly appreciated.

[@franciscafazzo3460]

Total misrepresentation of the scripture totally ignorant of that verse

[@kathleennolan584]

Only Jesus himself with his freewheeling midrash, quoting a psalm and then ironically attributing the lyric to the Torah of the "temple officials".