You have no policy solution - Debate with Vaush

Date streamed: 03/22/2020
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►OUTRO: / cc6-mastered-3-conflict

[@potatoid-0158]

Destiny: “Wait, wait, wait-“ Vaush: “Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait-“ Destiny: “WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT” Vaush: “waitwaitwaitwaitwait”

[@Classikh]

When the student becomes the teacher.

[@kalinsimovski5081]

Wait?

[@livingtoaster1358]

Destiny got waited in this debate

[@wingpins9457]

waitwaitwaitwaitimsupercurious

[@livingtoaster1358]

@@Classikh We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I met you I was but the learner. Now, I am the master.

[@BeethovenIsGrumpyCat]

Destiny and Vaush married then divorced 6 hours later in this debate.

[@King_NL]

Destiny didn't look good in this debate. No joke here, he just didn't.

[@fredriksandahl258]

In their privies debate/talk Destiny even said that he think talking about policy is more interesting. I think he is way to aggressive in this debate but he is mostly right, talking about thing that can't be realistic done in the current system is kind off useless.

[@Raikenbolai]

@@CaBdosdos I expect the definition of "utopian" is changing rather rapidly right now. For example before they announced it a trillion dollar A DAY bailout for the banks, M4A was considered too expensive at 34 trillion dollars.....OVER 10 YEARS

[@kenshinhau6311]

Fredrik Sandahl the problem is, vaush and him agree on almost every short term issue and their solutions, but Destiny fundamentally thinks markets will fix everything and Vaush thinks co-ops are the way forward.

[@DanielVargas-yx8ff]

@@CaBdosdos just wanted to let you know vaush is anti bernier or bust.

[@Dogan_TM]

@@darkjord5823 See ya dumbass.

[@bakaexmachina]

Well, their recent friendly relationship didn’t last very long...

[@schr4nz]

because Destiny sees everything as an attack on him, i'm not a childhood psychologist, but i'm sure his childhood has something to do with his emotional outbursts against people

[@dnciskkk9037]

@@schr4nz He is just tired of being aligned with dishonest actors, like vaush. And fed up about debates about utopias. This should be about the 2020 election, and vaush brought up all his nonsense, and they ended up discussing worker coops mostly. And after the debate that Vaush took off topic and destroyed, he sits and misrepresents it in his livestream. It is sad. Why is the marxist kids incapable of discussing contemporary times and elections?

[@schr4nz]

@wqipri24 pu4 lolz, does it hurt when someone drops some real shit about your daddy?

[@burstingturtle]

schr4nz Jesus, you’re defensive. Relax.

[@schr4nz]

@@dnciskkk9037 vaush is not a dishonest actor, but you'd actually have to watch his streams to know that, if you go back and watch the clip, you'll see destiny didn't get to see the full context of the statement, which vaush had to explain to him later .... someone was clip baiting destiny. you just have to look at who remained calm during the discussion and who was behaving like a pithy child to know who the real adult in the stream is.

[@at5203]

Destiny, saying "I find it boring" is not an argument my dude. Specially when Vaush is explicitly answering a question you asked him and for which you seem to have no counterargument. I said it in Vaush's video and I will say it again, at this point Destiny's "I find it boring" it's the same as Sargon's "i don't care". It's sad to see how dumb and bad faith he is when it comes to these subjects.

[@at5203]

@@curtishancock432 It will never happen if no one talks about it. He asked the question to Vaush and then pretended to fall sleep and changed the subject. He had no counter argument.

[@at5203]

@@CrasterFamily When he made the snorting noises he was specifically referring to a broader ideological movement that could help with climate change, not a fantastical revolution. And he does it in the middle of Vaush providing examples of this happening before. He then immediatly brings up the "you are calling me a white moderate", a completle pivot from what was being discussed, and never offers a counter argument to what Vaush was saying.

[@dsuper1710]

@@CrasterFamily You realize blacks voting was done in the north because it was a drastically different social and cultural sphere, right? What influenced Britain to abolish slavery first when it was globally prevalent? Also, "it's never happened before" isn't an argument even if that was true. Louis Charles Delescluze/Paris Commune, György Lukács/Hungarian Soviet Republic, Rosa Luxemburg/Free Socialist Republic of Germany, Nestor Makhno/Free Territory - Kim Chwa-chin/Shinmin Autonomous Region Buenaventura Durruti/Revolutionary Catalonia - Josip Broz Tito/Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia - Imre Nagy/Hungarian Revolution - E.M.S. Namboodiripad/Kerala - Alexander Dubček/Prague Spring - Salvador Allende/Chile - France-Albert René/Seychelles - Heng Samrin/People’s Republic of Kampuchea - Maurice Bishop/People’s Revolutionary Government of Grenada - Thomas Sankara/Burkina Faso - Subcomandante Marcos/Rebel Zapatista Autonomous Municipalities - Salih Muslim Muhammad/Rojava Or is your argument that those nations have failed? You mean like Rome? Babylon? Aztecs? Persians? The Egyptians? The Caliphate? The Mongols? It's because of capitalism because I said so. I'm not an advocate for socialism, you're just a fucking moron. Stop arguing with boomer talking points.

[@emwZEEK]

@@curtishancock432 Dude 30 years is FAST in terms of getting governments or people to change anything. Pick a different number like 200+ lol.

[@dsuper1710]

​@@CrasterFamily Vaush never said he believed a classless utopia was possible, and neither does any other socialist who is read up and not a mindless sjw bernie bro, because it's impossible. He advocates towards the progression towards such. Your entire argument is based off a poorly guised strawman.

[@cosmicgiraffe4071]

Destiny will call someone racially privileged on a dime but when Vaush correctly says economic privileges exist Destiny has an aneurism

[@theshelteredlife2]

@@Big-Papa-Smurf Destiny called Michael Brooks a class reductionist, in a video where Michael was talking about intersectionality. He has no idea what class reductionism even looks like. Either that, or he's using it in bad faith to attack the strawman version of the lefty he wants to argue against. He does the liberal thing of framing his beliefs as inclusive and intersectional and any left activism as just a group of white bros.

[@theshelteredlife2]

@Kayden Michael can probably afford to be a Bernie or Bust since I'm pretty sure he lives in NY. I'm a working class latina living in LA and I'm not even voting for Biden since I live in a solidly blue state. Call me privileged, but the Obama admin treated Latinos like absolute shit during his two terms. I don't feel like I owe any fealty towards Biden.

[@declaringpond2276]

@@Big-Papa-Smurf You tried to do the "bernie bro" argument like destiny does, and they claimed that you shouldnt be a racist fuck and claim bernie supports are just privileged white dudes

[@RJG7203]

@Kayden I dont think Micheal is Bernie or bust.

[@Odinsday]

@Kayden Obama was the guy who first locked kids in cages. He was the guy who expanded Bush's surveillance state and his endless wars. He was the guy who tried to cut social security and medicare when Bernie was trying to fight against that. Obama didn't give two fucks about the Latino community, so why would Biden? There is a reason why Bernie so popular with Latinos.

[@XZAceXZ]

Destiny your optics came out real bad on this one... Y'all need to stop hanging up in the middle of the call and overgeneralizing with Vaush in terms of lefties.

[@dnciskkk9037]

Only Jesse Lee Peterson has the patience to deal calmly with this speciment. It is one of Gods failed prototyped, not meant for massproduction. And Jesse only manages to stay calm because he laughs at it and has fun.Take him as a joke, which he is. But if you treat it with respect and try to have a serious conversation it is so tiresome.

[@stiller44]

send him an email then

[@Hyperllam4]

@@dnciskkk9037 Your name coupled with staning Jesse is hilarious. You're actually brain-dead.

[@landonjacob8922]

Dre zale then leftists need to stop being pro Bernie or bust and generalizing every thing they disagree with as conservatives white moderates

[@dnciskkk9037]

@@Hyperllam4 You need to forgive your muddah, you have anger.

[@JebeckyGranjola]

I don't get it, Destiny debated incest and cp just for an intellectual exercise, so why is discussing a "Utopia" so unconscionable to him?

[@RJG7203]

Very weird guy

[@Azrael.777]

You answered your own question.

[@QuinnArgo]

We call it the liberal mind prison

[@Kloutkulture]

Mind you this is the guy who made light of Racial Slurs, sexual assaulting women, and back-stabbed multiple people who attempted to show him courtesy.

[@50ULL355]

@@Kloutkulture yeah, sure pal. What a joke. I don't even like the guy and that's objectively false.

[@lauwda37]

I don’t agree with Vaush about his solutions to our society but why does Destiny continue to move the goal post every time he gets cornered. Throw in a couple of strawman arguments and you can easily see destiny is trying to defend his own ego.

[@elyjah6380]

You said it there because he was cornered he's more interested in being right or winning the debate than he is actually instituting any meaningful change

[@alexanderacheson2961]

@@elyjah6380 destiny is talking about the only meaningful policy while vaush wants to propose shit that is essentially meaningless rn as it ain't happening as vaush said within his lifetime. Then vaush claimed destiny doesn't wanna talk about policy cus he doesn't wanna go for the impossible politically ineffective idea of socialism. Vaush is the one who moved his goalpost from the original claim that destiny had no policy

[@DanielVargas-yx8ff]

@@alexanderacheson2961 you are misquoting vaush, he said destiny had no solution.

[@alexanderacheson2961]

@@DanielVargas-yx8ff there is no one solution to climate change and if you want to interpret vaushs statement as literally only solutions vaush doesn't have one either so...

[@alexanderacheson2961]

@@DanielVargas-yx8ff and you realise policy is the solution right? so yes destiny does want to talk about the solutions

[@andrewb4999]

Destiny accused Vaush of pivoting repeatedly when he never did in this debate.

[@acvvoi]

He did, for instance, he told destiny that he has no policies but then after destiny showed him that he has, he pivoted to "you need broad ideology". Not saying that destiny didn't, for instance the white collage educated thing, he reframed to Twitter white college educated.

[@wwewify]

@@acvvoi That response by Vaush wasn't really a *pivot*, it was him saying the policies weren't enough; that "you need broad ideology".

[@egdrei]

@@acvvoi I agree with Uther, that's not a pivot. And I think you quoted that wrong. He never said he has no policy, he said he has no solutions. But honestly I think it's a little sleazy by Vaush to not properly clarify that in the clip.In the clip the message he sent was that Destiny had put no real pragmatic thought into these big problems. When his real message is that Destiny has some proposals which are pragmatic that will make progress towards solving the problem, but not a 100% solution that will solve the entire thing. It's weasely and sleazy to play around with these words like that, policy, proposal, solution. Just be clear about what you mean from the start.

[@acvvoi]

@@wwewify yep, I agree, I heard again the video and I was wrong. But I notice the real difference between them, both disagree on what's a solution. A pivot (or what I think is a pivot) occurred, for instance, Destiny told Vaush that MTA can be passed to help fight climate change and instead of answer he pivoted to, do you think that we can discuss something else to what McConnell will pass.

[@qwqewqeqwewqqqqqwwww]

I enjoyed the short-lived friendship they had.

[@wingpins9457]

You think that was good? Wait until you see the make up sex.

[@j20reis]

dont think this will ruin their friendship, vaush has been watching destiny for a LONG time and they constantly disagree

[@zac246]

They have never been friends, Vaush is just a reoccurring rival that the writers bring back to spice things up and trigger and challenge the MC. Even though the MC usually pulls through, they needed that one loss a month ago and the threat of future losses to him as character development.

[@ragecomment4108]

Vaush is disgusting and disingenuous in his approach to discussions.

[@skyfinderlarmour5116]

I think they will talk again, next time deainty needs to be a little more calm before getting into that

[@datajake7869]

Looks at likes to dislikes "Perfectly balanced, as all things should be"

[@MuscleboundKage]

The white moderate hit like and dislike in this debate.

[@bahadir7677]

real centrism.

[@celestialadministration]

Destiny likes to talk down. Very authoritative, bias, cynical, arcane. Put your money where your mouth is. A back seat driver like rest of us. Yet not in the driver's seat. Likes to segregate himself from the rest of average people. Very Elizabeth Warren, Hillary Clintonish. I want destiny to put his money where his mouth is. Fuck you like you say fuck me.

[@ksilva2848]

@@celestialadministration real shit

[@therealzizmon1748]

@@celestialadministration "Fuck you like you say fuck me". Ermmm.... What the fuck?

[@mrdrofficer]

"Progressives never bring policy up" The only thing this country debates is progressive policy proposals.

[@CrestOfArtorias]

Vaush isn't progressive, he is a socialist.

[@haider9874]

@@CrestOfArtorias you can't be progressive and socialist at the same time?

[@bestdjaf7499]

Well if your policy solutions to fight the Global Warming is the Green New Deal, which doesn't include a discussion on Nuclear or even Hydro .... but talks about Unions & Gender Earnings Gap (at least they didn't call it Pay Gap)....

[@bestdjaf7499]

@@haider9874 The new Progressives are Socialists. They are fighting the Conservatives & Capitalism.

[@samus598]

@@bestdjaf7499 Just call it progressivism then please, I say as someone who agrees with most American "socialist"'s proposed policies, drop the label. It is death to the left to connect our current movement to the failed revolutions of the past, it gives every opponent easy fuel to mislead their gullible audience. Yang had it right. Call it "Human Centered Capitalism", it means the same thing as Democratic socialism with none of the red scare noob bait.

[@WalkTuahthePolls]

So let me get this clear. Destiny spent years debating alt-righers and discussed their fantastical ideas all the way up to ethnostates. But Vaush bringing up the (necessary) fantastical policy changes we need to make to stop climate change isn't worth talking about?

[@glenglen6386]

Stop climate change? Good luck. We've had 4 ice ages in the last 500 000 years. The last glaciers over Northern Europe withdrew 12 000 years ago. In 1000-2000 years we'll get the next ice age.

[@kennikia2234]

If you think that the only way to stop climate change is to host a global socialist revolution that deposes all existing governments and adequetly redistributes all production to the working class, yes that is quite fantastical and not helpful to any current solution.

[@mario167100]

Nope. If your solution to a problem is talking shit about some society 100 years into the future, then it's not worth talking about in the long run when we barely any signs of that actually happening.

[@Mrraerae]

@@glenglen6386 when people say "climate change" they´re not talking about natural cycles of hotter and colder periods over hundreds and thousands of years, you dumbass. They mean the super rapid ever increasing average global temperature due to human activity, which causes a lot of extreme weather to get more extreme. You know, droughts get more dry, hurricanes get stronger, glaciers and ice sheets melting faster than they grow during winter, siberian permafrost melting, shit like that. People aren´t talking about a fucking ice age in 1000 years, they´re talking about us fucking up our environment so badly that it´s only gonna take a few generations for shit to really really hit the fan

[@Killopotamus]

@@kennikia2234 Yeah but that's not really what is on the table here, I think its a fundamental misunderstanding. Really this whole video. What is on the table is the significant impact corporations have on the environment. You don't need to overthrow capitalism, but it should be on the table to address its fundamental problems. Having a paradigm shift of the public to be more in line with a social democracy would be progressive without guillotines or any of the lefty memes, but it doesn't seem like the U.S. can even get there. Is that a fair characterization from a socialist? I don't think Vaush was saying it must happen, but by the fact that we can't even get the minor acknowledgements of the problem out of the way, it makes revolution look like a more powerful vehicle than reform. I think we can do both, but we have to get capitalists on board to move forward. Destiny seems like he's there to be fair, I didn't see a lot of real disagreement on the substance. The disagreement seems to be Destiny's perception of Vaush as a socialist that should represent all of his experience with lefty Twitter. It looks childish, but drama is always on Twitch so w/e.

[@SC2Spectre]

I kinda agree with Vaush here, it's something I've noticed Destiny do a lot recently that doesn't sit well with me. He kinda just dismisses anyones concerns because they're not, in his mind, realistically implementable, even if he ultimately agrees with them. I think one should be able to debate what ought to be. Also, I think Destiny went into this debate a bit too heated, and it never really calmed down so it wasn't very productive imo.

[@LoLchilled09]

David Barnes What kind of leftist policies do you think are unrealistic?

[@SC2Spectre]

@@lordcanti4199 Destiny kinda does that tho. It seems like his bitterness towards Bernie bros like Hassan has poisoned his perception of policies he previously would have agreed with. Like universal healthcare.

[@alexanderacheson2961]

@@SC2Spectre destiny said he likes Bernie and I think he's even said he wants Medicare for all but is a lil worried about stuff like no co-pays. And vaush was disingenuous and bad faith as hell here so I completely understand why destiny is heated. Vaush literally tried to roll back on using destinys net worth to devalue his opinion and eventually kindve agreed when destiny directly called him out on it that that was his intention

[@daveruda]

@@alexanderacheson2961 Ofc someones wealth influence their perspectives. Its just a fact.

[@alexanderacheson2961]

@@daveruda but destiny has consistently gone against his class in advocation of socialist policies. Vaush is attempting to devalue destinys argument simply because he's wealthy (vaush also wealthy btw. ironic) while not actually critiquing any of destinys points. He originally tried to roll back on saying he made a personal attack on destiny aswell. Maybe you wanna live in a world where instead of arguing policy we argue the character of those proposing the policy with no evidence this is actually influencing their decision. For example you realise on the mean ppls class effects their decisions but that doesn't mean every person is influenced by it and vaush has no evidence to support destiny has compromised beliefs unless you count not wanna to push for policies that won't happen any time soon and is instead trying for meaningful change

[@daveedzee]

Imagine thinking that this video makes Destiny look good.

[@MatPost]

BB-B-BUT BIDEN GOOD BERNIE BAD....STFU COMMIE ME SMART AND YOUR POLICY IS BASICALLY DISNEY LULULULULUL

[@awesomezaka]

Imagine making no substantive argument to make the case that this video makes destiny look bad 😂

[@craydogdog1530]

@@awesomezaka okay..what makes you think destiny doesn't look bad?

[@jessecorrell996]

@@awesomezaka he is litteraly pretending to sleep while vaush cites historical evidence in the first 5 seconds of the video

[@awesomezaka]

@@craydogdog1530 never said it did lol. Just pointing out this dudes lack of substantiating anything

[@Otakuguy01]

Destiny is super butt-hurt because Vaush said "Destiny has no solutions" and he refuses just accept emotionally that what Vaush meant was, "Destiny's policy prescriptions don't amount to a solution because they're insufficient". Destiny needs to go over this conversations with that Essay Writer guy to understand why he comes off looking so bad in these convos.

[@randomcomment6635]

David Schuttenhelm Well this is what destiny is saying. He says that those policy prescriptions might not amount to the actual solution, but it would make a much more material impact then Vaush’s proposed revolutionary solutions. Therefore, Destiny believe that his proposals are more of a solution than vaush’s since it’s doing more to solve the problem.

[@firesong7825]

That's not "Destiny has no solutions", that's "I don't consider Destiny's solutions to be sufficient". Very big difference.

[@Otakuguy01]

​@@randomcomment6635 That's true, but Vaush wouldn't disagree and would support those prescriptions as a piece of the puzzle. But what Destiny is mad about is that he thinks Vaush was misrepresenting him as "having no solutions". It's not a political disagreement it's personal offense as far as I can tell.

[@Otakuguy01]

@@firesong7825 As Vaush said in the video, I think of a "solution" as something that actually solves the problem. It's an understandable ambiguity in language that two people should be able to get past once things are clarified.

[@MrLeothekingofkings]

Random Comment this would make sense if bush’s was arguing that this policy was actually as and gave co ops as a counter to it. This is a communications error on both of there parts that easily could of been addressed if destiny didn’t argue the way he does

[@benmatthews9273]

You’re way too toxic bro. How did this guy not just leave the debate you were attacking him for literally nothing he was making some ideological points and then you just flipped out on him for not suggesting policy like it’s just not a good argument

[@DiabolicalApostle]

@@user-gc1wj8tt2p Vaush didn't attack him, and he wasn't arguing for a utopia but for changing hearts and minds to pave the way for concrete and substantial solutions to gargantuan problems.

[@trampoleen8750]

@@DiabolicalApostle "Changing heart and minds" or in other words, revolution to utopia

[@DiabolicalApostle]

@@trampoleen8750 No.

[@kingad8869]

@@DiabolicalApostle Yes.

[@christie8493]

Because vaush used to be a fan and now he’s a rising lefty streamer so destiny feels bad.

[@YEEEEEEA]

its funny to see Destiny become a perfect manifestation of the "super aggro online/super passive IRL" meme

[@smiff513]

YEEEA GANG WEED he said even when he was screaming he still “loved” him and made sure he knew he wasn’t being personal in their first debate

[@taide4122]

everybody is like that

[@megafanflash]

LoL? Vaush literally brought this stuff up after their IRL debate. I guarantee you Destiny would've reacted in a similar fashion or at least with the same amount of frustration if Vaush said the same stupid stuff during their moderated convo.

[@johnathanreyes118]

You obviously don’t know destiny especially how he has engaged with people in Jesse lee Peterson’s stage

[@AedraRising]

@@megafanflash I mean, Vaush brought up this stuff after their IRL debate because Destiny was being two-faced and insulted him on stream after their IRL debate.

[@GO-GO_SO-SO]

Destiny seems like he took this more personally and was more emotional in this debate.

[@wyliehj]

@@michael138 except thats still not even fully true. Vaush is also not a bernie or buster/

[@redinkfield]

If only he used the advice he gave to Hasan in this debate.

[@7-67-7]

@@michael138 Hasan used the term useless social issues on one scuffed podcast with Destiny and now he still can't get over it and is attributing that sentiment to the broader left. This is nothing but emotion.

[@r3fus32d13]

As usual Destiny's napoleon syndrome kicks in and no discussion is had

[@MBsFinest]

True

[@Oytz]

Destiny changed his argument "everyone is a white college kid bernie bro" to "everyone ON TWITTER is a white college kid bernie bro" No shit

[@delrayvelo3277]

Oytz and that’s not even true

[@Oytz]

@@delrayvelo3277 now that I think about it I guess not even THATS true. Also destiny is always so quick to discount studies that propose things such as Medicare for all being popular

[@1Nostrand1]

Be honest, are you a white college kid?

[@Krakdawg]

He does say on twitter, listen again. Vaush talks over him when he says it.

[@justinianthe1st790]

@@1Nostrand1 And if they arent?

[@kalinsimovski5081]

Vaush outmanoeuvred Destiny in this debate. Never allow your butthurt to take the wheel folks.

[@TheMiddiefrosh]

@@TheBarca1889 Because it makes Destiny keep doing dumb shit like this entire debate

[@camron.w1841]

True to an extent. If you keep a level head people like Vaush probably wouldn't be too hard to debate.

[@JuanTheBone]

Destiny is either arguing in bad faith or outright too emotional to have this discussion. He none stops keeps projecting views on Vaush.

[@eru_barth]

exactly, which was kind of surprising to me

[@gotchathespider7850]

Yeah, this is one of just a couple debates I've seen where I'd say Destiny lost. Very surprised.

[@WalkTuahthePolls]

It's both

[@fredriksandahl258]

He was triggered cause Vaush was talking trash and was laying about him. Especially when they met really recently where he didn't bring any of that up. But yes destiny looks bad at some points during this debate, but think vaush was acting in bad faith during this debate as well he was just calm.

[@Khalkara]

@@fredriksandahl258 How was Vaush acting in bad faith here? Destiny didn't provide a single valid counter argument to anything. All he said can be summed it to: I don't care/This is boring/That is Utopian. Destiny appeared bad faith throughout the entire debate. If you have a functioning brain you would acknowledge this.

[@hideyoshilacan66]

I think vaush broke his heart

[@brandonden795]

Can we pinpoint the moment his heart breaks? kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZOzk5t5jNmNo68

[@cricketspike]

Shame, I really think Vaush didn't want that and was trying to clear things up.

[@hugomusic9504]

No destiny broke Vaushs heart

[@BlackSalamander439]

You need to work on your temper bro

[@MrVic-qu9qh]

He probably is tired of Vaush trying to link everything he does to being some white nazi.

[@millhousemillard2140]

Why??? It's better than the fake "chill" dudes who act like nothing bothers them yet we know everything bothers them lmao. At least he shows some passion

[@broduel]

@@millhousemillard2140 because not everyone is a 14 year old that finds the inability to manage your emotions attractive

[@millhousemillard2140]

@@broduel but its cool that you are buddy

[@jeremysanders9336]

@@millhousemillard2140pretending to be composed shows more composure than acting like a child.

[@IMatchoNation]

Does Steven's staff just hate him or something? Imagine actually publishing this trainwreck.

[@nathancampos6277]

Maybe because Destiny isnt afraid of scrutiny...

[@declaringpond2276]

@@nathancampos6277 or his actual fans dont care, pretty sure the devote stans ACTUALLY believe destiny cannot lose. The people who watch destiny not for politics, but for just his debate style of being agressive.

[@tgfs238]

@@declaringpond2276 that's clearly note true when his ratio is 50:50 and comments are always overwhelming negative relative to other channels

[@declaringpond2276]

@@tgfs238 Thats my point, his TRUE fans, the ones who actually fucking pay this man $100, they dont really care about politics, theyre there for entertainment, just like most Hassan fans

[@QosmicVoid]

Yussop op that why they didn't publish the first complete fucking humiliation Destiny had with Vaush?

[@prometheus3498]

Destiny was just outclassed for most of this debate. I've learned to just not watch the video any time Destiny is legitimately pissed off before a debate because he tends to make terrible arguments in bad faith. Destiny needs to do more yoga or something, that would vastly improve his argumentative capabilities.

[@ragecomment4108]

The fact that some people see Vaush as the victor, while other people see Destiny as the clear winner in these discussions, is baffling to me. Everyone is perceiving their own preferred reality. This has become absurd.

[@CrestOfArtorias]

@@Senumunu I mean socialism has been smashed everywhere in the world, I don't think you have a leg to stand on buddy.

[@MrNathan2409]

@@ragecomment4108 I'm a Destiny fan and can clearly see he went off the rails here. Just because Vaush won this debate doesn't mean Vaush's positions are all justified and vice versa. I think Destiny's position on platforming stands against him here too. His behaviour makes Vaush appear more reasonable as a person which viewers will transfer to his positions.

[@CrestOfArtorias]

@@TheLumberjack1987 I am european. Social democracies AREN'T socialist as they are build around the capitalist system with no desire or goal to overcome it. So no I mean socialism when I say socialism and not social democracies.

[@ragecomment4108]

@@Senumunu Lolwut

[@StaleMoves]

Destiny needs to collect himself more when talking with Vaush, in most of the debates hes had with Vaush in the last month Vaush has come out on top in a big way imo.

[@minecraftfan2087]

I can understand why he enters the debates like that. Vaush is engaging in some pretty dishonest behavior. But as a general rule, yelling makes you sound insane.Having now watched the whole video, Destiny fucking clapped him not sure what your on about.

[@megafanflash]

I disagree. Vaush would come out on top as more calm and collected, but he still fails to substantiate or answer to anything specifically.

[@minecraftfan2087]

@@killerskiely100 If you think Destiny only cares about rhetoric your wrong. If you think he lost this when he literally boxed vaush on every point your also wrong.

[@Forse702]

@@killerskiely100 Destiny has explicitly said that he hates rhetoric though..?

[@minecraftfan2087]

@@killerskiely100 What are you talking? I haven't said anything about what Destiny said about other left tubers sexuality.

[@Coryameta]

I mean Vaush is not wrong here. Destiny does not prescribe solutions to most of these issues that get talked about openly by others that he debates. Being against rent control is not advocating for a policy or solution. This has been my biggest issue with him with his war with lefties. He can tear down someone else's point or ideals just fine but he almost never presents his ideas on how to rectify a situation or issue. In the few times he does it does not feel like he stands by those points or he will leave him self a big opening to back track like (oh it's really complicated and or I doubt the public would even be for it).

[@Medhead101]

We dont need more policies, most of the problems stem from government action so we need to repeal a lot of the policies (most importantly repealing the Federal Reserve Act so that a small group of private capitalists don't have the power to issue the nation's money supply is probably the central issue causing boom and bust cycles).

[@Hyperllam4]

Destiny has outlined his solutions countless times over dozens of videos. You clearly don't care for his content or arguments.

[@Coryameta]

@@tarkemir9998 Yep he does but in the same breath destiny does not indicate what the process looks like to him and in the few times a debate got that far into it he says its a complicated matter and it can be done any number of ways. Something that can be done is a number of ways is fine with me that's not my issue. My issue is that if you have a strong position on something where you get heated and are calling other positions stupid; I would hope and strongly recommend that you have a theory on what may be the best way out of those many solutions.

[@Coryameta]

@@Hyperllam4 Not true but okay. I don't think my point is some anger driven attack on Destiny, for me its just an observation that I have taken notice of.

[@Hyperllam4]

@@Coryameta my point was that you're factually wrong. Destiny has put forward solutions countless times. At this point it's getting annoying how much he repeats it. Yet here you are saying he doesn't. Square this circle.

[@DrevorReal]

Vaush: I'm not just taking about some socialist utopia. Vaush: Well to tackle climate change, in a world where the workers are united and coops are...

[@alexanderweikle]

You don't seem to know what a utopia is.

[@animalcracker7570]

​@@alexanderweikle 1 : a place of ideal perfection especially in laws, government, and social conditions 2 : an impractical scheme for social improvement 3 : an imaginary and indefinitely remote place 4 : a consequentialist narrative for justifying any atrocity

[@crashflagons]

Utopia is when class consciousness

[@unimunoz1159]

Utopia is when world gets better

[@rodiculous9464]

The other thing is, co ops already exist as a legitimate business structure. There are hundreds of them. I haven't watched all of vaush but his arguments seem to be around "we need to introduce this thing that already exists and them everything will be better"

[@parsifal2299]

Every time destiny goes on vaush like that he always make a fool of himself... At least try doing this in good faith buddy

[@parsifal2299]

J N yes but I've seen destiny arguing with leftist in similar topics before in good faith, I think he just has a problem with vaush honestly

[@landonjacob8922]

J N nothing better than a deluded anarchist calling everything they don’t like conservative

[@blackfangofargentina]

Lol vaush is being a dipshit. This is nothing bad faith at all. You sir have posted cringe and thus have made a fool of yourself. Oh how the turntables have turned

[@ProfUltima]

@@blackfangofargentina Trying to equate the USSR with modern socialist systems/proposals is pretty fucking bad faith.

[@ProfUltima]

​@@doctordankeston2569 That has nothing to do with the original point. Maybe I should have mentioned it to save on confusion, but the argument is that Destiny is trying to pin climate change or environmental negligence practiced by the USSR on the broader ideology of socialism. Which is bad faith, considering that our understanding of the climate has evolved with the times, and we can't speak to what the fucking Soviets were doing in that same context. Also, if we're going by strict political labels, would you believe me if I told you that North Korea is a democratic republic?

[@shayanali9141]

To be fair, Vaush makes a solid point when hes talking about how everything is unviable with mitch mcconnel in the senate. Secondly, discussions on policy that may not pass can be fruitful because it could lead to modifications on working solutions. Destiny got too aggro to concede that point

[@rumplerug8937]

Well, if that is the case, then there is not point in discussing politics if Mitch McConnel is the deciding factor in what can and can't get passed. Under this current form of government, no real change can come, but Destiny has a point in saying that taking class and destroying it is anything but a utopia.

[@dnciskkk9037]

If it is impossible to get anything passed in the senate, then why is Vaush bringing up utopian dreams? Pointless if they cannot pass. And can he please stop this nonsense about workercoops, pointless and stupid. And it would destroy the pensionsystem that we base our life on, so just sad. Btw, you do not need the senate for much, if you have the prez and congress, you get to push through 98% of what you want. Very sad they were derailed from the journey to that, and discuss what could pass if Biden could win, and the dems keep the congressmajority.

[@shayanali9141]

Big Boss I mean Vaush didn’t really push that here, and tbh the only way to actually reverse climate change would be hardcore going back on production and dealing with class. So while it might be utopian, it is a valid point to say it.

[@WalkTuahthePolls]

Destiny's entire argument is proven wrong by Bernie's presidential runs. 4 years ago, things like tuition free college and a $15 minimum wage were considered fantastical. This cycle, many of his ideas were adopted by other candidates and would actually have a chance of passing a dem controlled house and senate.

[@Zonno5]

@@WalkTuahthePolls Just like building a wall on the southern border lmao.

[@NickBGrim]

Vaush literally out”classed” (; destiny in this debate. Vaush kept cool and made good points and rebuttals. Destiny just reminds me of Ben Shapiro these days. Talk fast, make 100 unsubstantiated points in a paragraph, and misrepresent the counter arguments.

[@firefang1343]

Yup, he really outclassed him with a solution that, and I quote directly from Vaush "Will probably ever happen in my lifetime" and everything other than that isn't a solution... lmao good one.

[@XSuperModzzX]

Vaush speaks from his ass

[@samhiggins3772]

@@XSuperModzzX Destiny*

[@samhiggins3772]

@usucdik Destiny speaks out of his ass, he's a ridiculously unpassionate centerist

[@MrSergnes]

Throwing out word salad isn't outclassing. Vaush tries hard to sound intelligent and informed and doesn't make any actual progress in advancing any actual argument.

[@ToDDHeaDD]

Destiny ran from Vaush in this debate

[@awesomezaka]

How

[@alexanderacheson2961]

@@awesomezaka all the *destiny **____** in this debate* comments are usually a joke

[@nopenope5035]

I would be fucking frustrated too if i was destiny, the mans taken quite a bit of shit this past couple of months and its been showing

[@alexanderacheson2961]

@@nopenope5035 kinda sucks that the large majority of online lefties/progressives are so bad faith and disingenuous. The whole homophobia thing towards Pete from Bernie bros was rly sad.

[@nopenope5035]

@@alexanderacheson2961 i wont say bad faith, just stupid-faith, if you get what i mean. And the bernie bro homophobia thing is imo basically a nothing. None of those people have anywhere near enough power to enact any of their prejudices or motivate the democratic base to be any more homophobic to pete tgan they already were. I personally disliked how destiny took a retweet that could kinda be seen as homophobic and blew it out of porportion, that was hella disengenuous to me.

[@strawmansadvocate3036]

This was a bad look for Destiny, Vaush tries to act in good faith while Destiny spends the whole time to triggered to listen, hope he grows up again soon

[@chemicalspu1482]

Vaush was acting also in bad faith wtf lol

[@natethegreatest1000]

Chemicals Pu How did vaush act in bad faith? He acknowledged, and confronted the fact that he mischaracterized Destiny’s failure to have “solutions,” when vaush meant that working solely within the Republican senate was futile. Do you know what bad faith means?

[@frankjaegerr]

This made me Subscribe to Vaush.

[@SerenityM54L2SAM5L5N1]

This made me subscribe to Destiny thrice.

[@mattattack75]

Im sorry destiny made you do something so stupid

[@chrisrevel2801]

Vaush is clearly lying about being bisexual and now I am starting to think that he is also lying about being a communist

[@LIQUIDSNAKEz28]

Yeah, Vaush definitely came out looking better in this

[@AedraRising]

@@chrisrevel2801 I mean, he's pansexual and a libertarian socialist in the short term and an anarcho-syndicalist in the long term, but okay.

[@mrboiardo1176]

Destiny worked in a salt mine in this debate

[@electriclord3]

rob rob I mean, his policy solutions were the same as Destiny????

[@romanski5811]

@@robrob8936 How is worker co-ops not a policy?

[@GunBreaux]

I miss in person Destiny.

[@fredriksandahl258]

Maybe Vuash should have brought up his problem with destiny when they met, instead of saying that he didn't want to talk about policy cause it doesn't get people interesting.

[@cmoney25801]

@@fredriksandahl258 YEP. makes Destiny look like an internet tough guy.

[@ashupashu5559]

in person?

[@ItzTweek]

Idk how Destiny always just loses it when talking to Vaush, one of the best people to talk to from the lefties. All of the problems Destiny has with lefties doesn't exist with Vaush and seems like a perfect guy to talk to. But he just loses his shit, I don't get it

[@QuinnArgo]

Destiny has no actual argument against the left. If argued correctly, he can't answer it.

[@yomommamonkey]

Ego

[@OscarMor5678]

@@QuinnArgo did you watch the video? Hes completely correct , there will never be a revolution, synsoc has never been done before etc

[@QuinnArgo]

@@OscarMor5678 And that is relevant to the general conversation how? You are aware, Vaush at no point advocated revolutionary praxis, quite the opposite, stating that the revolution, if it were to happen will not be in our lifetimes. He's correct that just advocating a revolution isn't a good point. The only problem is that nobody made the claim he is answering.

[@OscarMor5678]

@@QuinnArgo sorry obviously I need to think before I comment . My bad

[@zjc92]

"How is this a pivot?! I didn't bring this up, you di-" "No I didnt, you did." "..." Ouch.

[@MalevolentDivinity]

Why are you talking about taking the queen? It's impossible to take the queen right now, we should be focusing on taking pawns! But you can't take any pawns right now anyway, and most of the pawns that could be made available would require a greater sacrifice than they're worth. Perhaps it would be a better idea to position our pieces so that we can take the queen, or at least a roo- See, this is why you suck at chess. You talk about all these pie in the sky scenarios where you control the board or take valuable pieces instead of talking about the far more reasonable goals like taking pawns. You think your opponent is just going to let you take their queen? It's never going to happen. Well, to be fair, your opponent isn't just going to let you take their pawns for free either. There are difficulties associated with every move you can make, and no advantage is going to be easy to come across. Sure, we're not going to be able to take the queen in the next few turns, but if we move to do so we can apply pressure on the board which will force them to- WHY ARE YOU PIVOTING! I'm talking about basic, achievable things like taking pawns and you're sitting here larping about taking queens, and now you're not even talking about taking the queen but 'applying pressure'? I would much rather accomplish things than sit around not actually taking any pieces, and while I generally agree that it would be nice to take the queen, it's not going to happen, and I hate that your idiotic insistence that we take the queen is taking precedence over taking their pawns. Look, I'm not saying that taking pawns is a bad idea. I personally love taking pawns, and would be fully willing to do so in any scenario where it's feasible and efficient, but we shouldn't be focusing our strategy around taking their pawns. We're never going to get anywhere just taking their pawns. If we ever want to be in a position where we can checkmate their king, we're going to need to have better control over the board than they have, and we're not going to have that control if we don't take their more valuable pieces. Currently, the single most effective way to gain control of the board would be to get rid of their queen- Preferably without losing ours- And doing so would allow us to, most likely, checkmate their king. But your opponent isn't just going to let you take their queen!

[@crazymonk27]

damn! get this boi on the big brain podcast!

[@atarashiazarashi1789]

They are both arguing in bad faith, you need both people that are going to make the little things that are possible to make right now and you need people who advocate for broader large scale changes that are also allot harder to implement. And your analogy doesn't work because what Destiny want's is actually the little positioning moves that will let you be in position to trade your pawn for better piece, while what vaush is advocating is more of a fools checkmate. And if you just play the game like Destiny you end up getting huge material lead, but checkmate later then you could, which in real world could be too late, while if you play like Vaush you try for one big swoop, but will most likely fail.

[@sunshinekreu7684]

This is the first symptom of D.GG madness.

[@kmoney890]

Atarashi Azarashi “One big swoop” What? Vaush argues on multiple levels and avenues for change

[@MalevolentDivinity]

@@atarashiazarashi1789 Except it seems pretty clear that Destiny has no long game. The arguments he's making are in favor of what can be achieved in the moment, which implies a lack of foresight which, when applied to chess, would be akin to just looking at what moves can be achieved in the moment with no regard to what they can set up in the future. And Vaush is pretty clearly pointing out that the moves he intends to make aren't going to be paying off in the near future. Between the two, he's definitely the one who's interested in playing the long game, making moves in the moment that don't immediately pay off but situate us better in the future. And I'm not even saying that either of the two are wrong. You need to make the best moves you can in the moment, and you need to consider long term goals. But in this conversation, Vaush is entirely willing to make practical short term moves, whilst Destiny is infuriated by the fact that Vaush is so interested in long term projects. Which would lead to a scenario wherein, between the two, Destiny would set the board up so that he could trade one of his pawns for an enemy bishop in a three turn window, but he devotes so much effort to achieving just that that the opponent has time to set up an uncontested capture of a rook and knight.

[@txync]

Destiny is loud and outraged so I guess he must be right

[@awesomezaka]

Lol does loud and outraged make you wrong? Did he ever say that him being loud and outraged made him right? What is this irrelevant useless comment? Lmao

[@Bisquick]

@ It's usually referred to as a "joke".

[@chrisrevel2801]

He was right here for sure

[@DanielVargas-yx8ff]

@@awesomezaka I think its pretty clear what the commenter was saying, they are stating that ones loudness and outrage does not cause or correlate the correctness of ones position, sarcastically. Which is a factually true statement. They weren't asserting that destiny thought opposite, just that destiny was loud and outraged and that bieng that thise things didn't correlate or cause the wrongness/correctness of his position. And how is this comment irrelevant or usless?

[@RevOptimism]

awesomezaka Lmao looks like you got subtly butthurt by the “irrelevant” comment.

[@beaverstever1083]

19:11 - 19:26 H. Bomber Guy and Philosophytube are both bi not straight just issuing a correction there

[@Bai_Su_Zhen]

You think he cares? This bunch of rich American babies are just bored with their monotone unproductive lives, so they're bitching at each other to make something happen during the day. Don't worry about it.

[@yeahiguess9702]

@@Bai_Su_Zhen They are not even American. They are British. Oh nvm. You meant destiny and vaush.

[@jacobhero1577]

@@Bai_Su_Zhen Interesting generalization you got there comrade

[@WiloPolis03]

There's also shoe0nhead (bi woman), comrade cora (trans woman), Council of Geeks (genderfluid), and Vaush (pan), who he's LITERALLY TALKING TO ASDFGHJKLASMDMDMZNF

[@tylergorman3727]

@@WiloPolis03 Also our queen ContraPoints

[@gustawowczarski9315]

It’s the first time that i think Destiny acually lost a debate.

[@CorporateShill66]

LOL you haven't been paying attention then

[@americaninsurgent4403]

Yea all those other debates where people claim Destiny lost aren’t nearly as conclusive as this was. Vaush whooped his ass here and made him quit

[@bluemagic4381]

Gustaw Owczarski why because “hE wAs VERy mEAn” actually explain why he was wrong you dense moron. Sorry but being an asshole doesn’t mean you’re wrong.

[@TheIronyoshi]

Blue Magic debating in bad faith does

[@merritt2014]

Lefty arc season 2

[@mikkopasanen6051]

Electric boogaloo?

[@jcavs9847]

more like season 3

[@OkDoomerBoomer]

Gulag Boogaloo

[@declaringpond2276]

Yikes, if only people knew you were a fascist, they wouldnt have given you so many likes Wanna explain why Milo isnt a nazi again?

[@merritt2014]

@@declaringpond2276 My nigga you think Stalin wasn't a communist. Fuck outta my thread

[@yoamzis97]

THE LEFTY ARC IS AAAAAAMAZIN'

[@Berxy]

I coom every time I see vaush and destiny

[@ascendedbro1828]

Is it JoJo "Jessy Lee" arc reference?

[@erickpm7596]

1:16 - 1:40 wow i remeber eminen's rap god break verse going a little diferent, great flow thought

[@iamnotinvolved1309]

2x speed is amazing

[@brandonewatson]

I feel like Vaush was being intellectually honest here and legitimately tries to answer Destiny's answers but Destiny refused to engage with him. Instead he talked past the point and just kept punching a straw man. Do I agree that Vaush has some radical ideas that make me uncomfortable? Yeah. Did destiny get to the core of what makes those ideas untenable? No, he just kept hammering home on his "socialist utopia" rather than actually attack his specific arguments. He just shut his brain off any time Vaush brought up philosophy. It really bothered me. I usually am on Destiny's side, but he gishgalloped his way into a really fucking annoying debate where he wasn't even arguing with Vaush.. he was arguing with the "socialist boogeyman" that he already decided he is against. It seems that Destiny was stuck on "You said I had no solutions myself" which I do agree is a bad faith argument by Vaush. I think it is weasly to say "you brought up proposals and not solutions" as it doesn't really mean anything. With that said, Destiny couldn't fucking get past it. He was sooooooo hard stuck on this point that he refused to have ANY other discussion at all. He was super emotional here and had no interest in a debate. He just wanted to call out Vaush for saying that he didn't actually propose a real solution... which again I think is a fair argument.. but god damn MOVE ON MAN!

[@BlakeZeb]

Brandon Watson it’s also a little weird that he brought up several time that Vaush mentions his net worth, when even Vaush says it’s not really a big deal. But then when Vaush says how destiny uses the white college kid thing, Destiny doesn’t bring it up directly to him. But he pretty much did in one of their recent talks talking about how “mommy and daddy didn’t pay for my (destiny’s) college” and such

[@belinhobeli9569]

Vaush honest, hehe :) funny

[@gameplayerone3917]

It's almost as if the conversation happened because Vaush accused Destiny of having no solutions, and so that was the focus of the conversation. Imagine focusing on a specific topic, the horror. It's almost as if, the mere act of being bad faith, which you acknowledged, meant further discussion was pointless, unless you have a different definition of bad faith. The fact that so many people agreed with you is wild wth. I imagine accusing someone of rape and they like, get so emotional over it, lmao. Like no need to get so hung up over it, let's talk about our hobbies now. Wdym you don't want to talk to me, I only accused you of something you didn't do, who cares about reputation, MOVE ON MAN! XD

[@rune2bias]

Destiny calling olly and harris str8 yikes

[@elyjah6380]

Doesn't fit his narrative, where he gets to just call everyone who disagrees with him a rich entitled white kids, pot calling the kettle black much

[@Venucci]

@@elyjah6380 "rich" sure, but "entitled white" i don't see how that applies to Destiny.

[@johnbixbybixbyking5007]

yea his broader point that online socialist media is dominated by straight white dudes is true but i cringed when he said that

[@hoodedninjax3]

apprently vaush is okay with it too cuz he never corrected destiny yikes

[@kalinsimovski5081]

If you ask them if they consider themselves to be privileged, what do you suppose they would say?

[@BearAnima]

The intro alone makes Destiny look like a bad faith actor. Is the editor secretly a comrade?

[@RakMuk]

Nice five nights a freddys videos PepeLaugh

[@danielbertrand6675]

Doubtfully, "comrades" don't work.

[@JacatackLP]

BearAnima for real dude I’m starting to believe the meme

[@BearAnima]

@@RakMuk Your name holds up.

[@JacatackLP]

@@ezaf5989 Bruh you have a sports car as your pfp, that's unironically below anime girls in terms pfp's

[@1999_reborn]

Kyle went to a chiropractor in this debate

[@1999_reborn]

How do I delete a comment?

[@cerealfamine1]

Lol

[@redinkfield]

@@1999_reborn How do I unlaugh at the horrible comment?

[@seanmatthewking]

1999 I don’t know man, I was trying to delete it myself, but no luck :(

[@kgth3b3ast40]

I wish, my back has been killing me.... Lol

[@redinkfield]

Destiny made leftism look better in this debate.

[@courtney9180]

redinkfield agreed

[@ragecomment4108]

In what universe? This whole video showcases how disingenuous leftists like Vaush are. The idea that Destiny doesn't propose solutions, when that's literally half of his political commentary, is beyond absurd. It is gaslighting of the highest order.

[@redinkfield]

@@ragecomment4108 He doesn't propose solutions. These are solutions Vaush proposed that Destiny *agreed* with. That is not the same as finding a solution. If anyone is weaselly and bad faith it is him.

[@ragecomment4108]

@@redinkfield Destiny has proposed solutions though, the solutions mentioned here are some things he has said in earlier videos, he has been pretty consistent on these positions.

[@mittens2015]

@@ragecomment4108 Anything short of a near war-government-like, centrally planned redirection away from fossil fuel, related infrastructure, agriculture and commodity overproduction would not solve the issue, we're (most the world, not just US) long past incrementally buying time until we casually arrive there. I can see alternatives, but none of them will require so little as a few policy changes every 5 years can make a big enough dent in time. That's what is meant with no solutions. No doubt many of Destiny's positions will be incrementally better for many, but it will be nothing but bought time without some major reform in the future. We should still do it so long as there are no better solutions, if not for raising general conditions for people to become well off enough to be more likely informed on politics or at the least showing that slow increments won't be quick enough. Which, to be fair, IS possible; raising the floor closer to that reform being paletteable to a larger amount of politicians (many voters are already there, but are made insignificant), which is precisely why Vaush often says it should still be done. Meanwhile, move the general political discourse on the culture side of the scale to the left through rhetoric.

[@theronerdithas2944]

You uploaded THIS before the Striker debate? Editor, hello?

[@willo9301]

Hi, editor here. The Striker debate is ready & set up for a while now. It's just been taking KZbin ages to process it (still at 0%) I'm currently re-uploading it to see if it fixes it. Same thing had happened with D&D(took over 24h to process). Really sorry for this, I'm just as frustrated as you guys.

[@mrwaha1]

@@willo9301 thanks buddy

[@crazymonk27]

i figured that the debate with striker needed to actually be edited to prevent tos issues while this could just be clipped.

[@mrwaha1]

@@ksilva2848 damn, I called him buddy and everything

[@willo9301]

@@ksilva2848 That is not true lol. My channel pic is just an icon I made like 5 years ago.

[@Blade12323]

Wow Vaush actually did a great job of holding his own here

[@hardlyworking_]

@@user-gc1wj8tt2p literally never brought that up but ok

[@Jolah]

Michael Lu he has spoken out against this many many times

[@KZ-xt4hl]

@Michael Lu We have been waiting for you magic elon musk bill gates liberal capitalist solution for climate change but it keeps getting worse. I would take my chances with the revolution thank you. Also I am a brown pansexual person before you throw out the racial "you white dude" card

[@KZ-xt4hl]

@Michael Lu Nice argument, totally destroyed me, I guess I will become a libtard cocksucking of capital now ;)

[@sekulrtsnfnugg6126]

When is he not? He's a good debater...

[@danielhaynes6255]

15 MINUTES IN. Destiny just destroyed this relationship.

[@dnciskkk9037]

Vaush was toxic, the relationship had to end

[@adilson816]

@@dnciskkk9037 vaush was/is the most cheritable and willing to listen person around destiny You can see he actually respects him a lot Idk why destiny is getting so defensive over a critique of his political view, especially since he loves to take jabs at people (ironically or not)

[@smiff513]

Adilson Jr vaush literally said destiny was the white moderate MLK complained about how is that charitable when destiny literally spent a year morally defending violence against people who Vote in racially disproportionate Laws/politicians

[@chuckecheese5251]

@@smiff513 because like Stefan Molynuex says taxes are slavery Vaush says not being in a socialist society is slavery

[@adilson816]

@@smiff513 he might have spemt a year defending that, but right now his take is pretty "moderatly white" with all the "if you cant pass it through congress, it's an utopia" So vaush might have been wrong in the past, but right now he isn't Destiny also said vaush was a tankie, a lefty who is out of touch with reality and just dreams about an impossible utopia, that didn't stop vaush from sitting and talking with him like an adult (unlike destiny's triggered responses in this debate)

[@pylianpbappe8898]

I give Destiny a couple more years before he starts calling himself a “centrist” and considers voting for Republicans.

[@chemicalspu1482]

@@TheLumberjack1987 When someone starts looking bad, people immediately start being disingenuous because they don't fit their perfect narrative op

[@BPOOP1000]

Sure because in no moment in history has it ever be ok to vote for Republicans.

[@TechnicalHotDog]

He's on the Dave Rubin arc, just the anti-Rubin personality wise lol

[@Diwwwy]

there’s a good chance you’re not wrong….

[@kevinjohnanand]

How did this prediction turn out?

[@mr.e5595]

All memes aside, Destiny got clobbered in this debate, and it wasn't even close.

[@BlackPillRealized]

Analogmp3 that’s a great arguement

[@dragonmaster4555]

@@douglas_fir and what have you done lmao? Vaush won this debate. You don't even have a counter argument to what OP said

[@StudioJacke]

@@BlackPillRealized Really owned the libs with that one

[@Ntmonmegng]

@@BlackPillRealized What has vaush actually done other than debate people? He apparently has all these solutions but I never see him doing anything except sitting on his ass lmao

[@alangutierrez7368]

@@Ntmonmegng to him, he has said he just wants to spread the idea, thats it

[@dsuper1710]

Destiny's delusions of grandeur are so extreme he thought this was a good idea to upload in any capacity in this debate

[@chrisrevel2801]

zack jones I thought that vaush looked bad

[@dsuper1710]

@@chrisrevel2801 You should clean the wax out of your ears then. I disagree with the large body of Vaushes political stances and it's obvious Destiny is going off the rails.

[@chrisrevel2801]

@@dsuper1710 vaush never was on the rails ... his only accomplishment was to successfully lie to his intersectional audience by pretending to be LGBTQ and have them forget that he is just a straight cis white male born in beverly hills

[@AedraRising]

@@chrisrevel2801 Literal pansexual erasure, how "progressive" of you.

[@chrisrevel2801]

@@AedraRising i conveniently identify as progressive so you can't say i am not lol

[@0ktk]

I'm a simple man, I see Destiny vs Vaush, I click.

[@AngryShooter]

I just love how it went from Destiny consistently ignoring Vaush for so long, to their back and forth becoming on of the main attractions on this channel.

[@ronnywijngaarde7555]

I really needed that XD

[@lukegarcia3238]

Big baby BITCHES

[@Ramiel77]

Oooooff.... the student has bested the teacher. What's going on Destiny? You really seem to be projecting a lot of your frustration with the left on to every debate you have these days. And it's making you come across as totally disingenuous.

[@elyjah6380]

Man what's happened to destiny, used to admire him for helping me to stop being a chud in 2016 days, he's really let emotion take over.

[@RakMuk]

It feels like he's trying to rid the mega leftists out of his community by exposing his most right leaning views. I'm sure in a few weeks/months he'll be back catering to his more left leaning viewers as soon as he starts to lose viewers. Maybe I'm reading too much into it tho lol

[@2000damp]

not suprising a 2016 chud went 180 and is now a far leftist. You just changed from 1 populist to another.

[@elyjah6380]

@@2000damp enlightened centrist over here, fuck off you pleb

[@kennikia2234]

@@elyjah6380 "If you're not a socialist or a fascist you must be an enlightened centrist" You need medical help.

[@elyjah6380]

@@2000damp also far leftist lmao , my guy I'm a socdem, just think destiny has become everything he fought to stop, emotion driven and largely uneducated on the topics he speaks about.

[@tronalddump1133]

Destiny got owned in this debate No, but seriously. He was obviously too upset to have a level-headed good faith conversation.

[@kyleschaffrick3845]

When Vaush makes bad faith arguments he undermines himself and it is very understandable that destiny gets heated

[@fannyp1358]

I don’t think he got owned but more then have the stuff he said was utopia socialism utopia like bruh

[@MrDoomedtofail]

That first minute and a half is the most triggered anyone has ever been on KZbin

[@aresgood1]

destiny clearly is emotionally invested in his position. every time his position is attacked, he FEELS like his person is attacked.

[@TheEasyc]

@@aresgood1 Vaush isn't even attacking his positions, hes just straight up insulting him

[@aresgood1]

@@TheEasyc the most insulting thing vaush said was that people should be conscious of their own biases. the reason both the left and the right are on the rise is because the status quo doesn't work for most people. but for destiny, because of his position works, so he thinks works for most people.

[@camron.w1841]

Agreed if someone like Vaush told me I didn't have solutions to the worlds most pressing issues I'd be pretty pissed of too.

[@Kosiduss]

why would you purposefully upload this? is destiny ok?

[@TheTheThe_]

He doesn't personally run the channel.

[@fazma1076]

You guys wondering what this debate is about but I’m wondering why Gross Gore’s picture is in the video

[@ksilva2848]

P R I O R I T I E S

[@ksilva2848]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b56pln1vYqicjM0 this is the GrossGore video btw

[@Alberts_Stuff]

I thought he was a blazed moderator

[@chuckecheese5251]

I was wondering who that was

[@crazymonk27]

Before they started talking Vaush was going over the in person debate regarding how things like segregation and abolition were as pie in the sky to some people as socialism is to Destiny yet those things seem easy to accomplish now in Destiny's mind...

[@ReddoFreddo]

Yeah but Vaush also says a socialist revolution won't happen in his lifetime, if that's not pie in the sky than what is. I for one am sick of hearing that the solution to every problem is "end capitalism."

[@alexanderacheson2961]

@imuglierthanyou aswell destiny clearly has policy and vaush clearly just disregarded all prior knowledge of this obviously disingenuously cus destiny doesn't want a socialist revolution. Vaush saying destiny doesn't talk policy when that's literally 90% of what he says to socialists or tries to get them to talk about (since they usually dodge) is such a ridiculous unfounded claim that you have to be a die hard fan of socialism or vaush to agree with

[@alexanderacheson2961]

@imuglierthanyou the thing is altho I can see why ppl might think destiny doesn't want socialism but he did straight up say he's for co-ops of they work and is happy for banks to give them favourable loans. This I'll admit cud be a generous interpretation but I honestly think based on previous stuff with destiny that the personal attack annoyed him because it's promoting an illogical thought process and argument while destiny cares about logic thinking a lot. We've seen with allabrelle he takes personal attacks well but he's clearly pissed at vaush for being disingenuous here and tbh I think vaush is a weaselly fuck after watching this vid

[@sDeluxeScrapbookKAISER]

Oh dear ....how the mighty have fallen since the gloriors days of dumping on Lauren Southern.

[@Shannon_Lynch]

He literally had a just as good annihilation of an racist in the past few days when he argued with Eric Striker. When it comes to dealing with the worst people online politics he's as good as ever

[@sDeluxeScrapbookKAISER]

Se Fe ...😂😂 😂 wow I see my minor criticism means alot to you. Or maybe you’ve just got alot of....err right wing angry douch bag teen troll stuff bottled in.. But know this TLDR👍

[@sDeluxeScrapbookKAISER]

Se Fe I suppose you’re right on that last score. I don’t care enough about the generic repetitive unsophisticated ramblings of any living large caps writing obnoxious Rght Winger. It’s not an ideological difference it’s spiritual and organic. In other words, I could care less.

[@sDeluxeScrapbookKAISER]

Se Fe 😂👍

[@LuisMartinez-en8pf]

Socialists are extremely adept at one thing. Deflection. Doesn't matter how much proof you show them, "that's just capitalist fabrication" Doesnt matter how many horrible failed attempts communism has had "that's not real communism" Doesn't matter how much you debate a communist "that's not a debate" Communists will continue to fail until they can actually debate the points instead of running from them. Communism requires the forceful government acquisition of power, capitalism is natures barter trade. There's a reason why Karl Marx was a vicious racist and wife beater

[@mageIIan]

I feel like Destiny came into this debate with the intentions of exposing Vaush to not have any policy based solutions for the broader long term problems we face as a society at whole, only to reveal that his "solutions" are half measures that require a broader political road map in the form of political theory to actually resolve any of the major issues he brought up. Both are neccessary

[@kennikia2234]

You concede that both are necessary and yet the whole reason this started was because Vaush was calling Destiny a "white moderate" with no solutions. Populism is brainrot.

[@mageIIan]

@@kennikia2234 Solutions to our more extensive issues aren't within the scope Destiny tried to limit the dicussion to, being ones that could currently be passed through legislation. Obstacles like the senate and our current administration virtually limit any real permenant solution to those sorts of issues. The "white moderate" criticism draws from the fact the solutions destiny's offers, while being a push in the right direction, don't really resolve these broader issues in a meaningful way the same way white moderate liberals who aligned with the civil rights movement in the 20th century only saw incremental change as the only way to deal with jim crow rather than following instep with the resolution of the issue entirely which MLK was pushing for. I don't see that as populist rot.

[@kennikia2234]

@@mageIIan First of all, you're redefining the term "white moderate." That term is used to describe someone, as Vaush states himself, that offers NO solutions and always excuses current policies. White moderates act as a roadblock to any sort of change. A white moderate is not someone that "pushes in the right direction." Also you have not demonstrated to me why multilateral trade agreements would not be able solve climate change, so nothing you said about that change being inadequate is meaningful.

[@mthsdcs]

@@kennikia2234 "both are necessary" is literally Vaush's position

[@kennikia2234]

@@mthsdcs Yes I know, and yet Vaush mischaracterizes Destiny as a "white moderate" with no solutions.

[@StamperOSRS]

Destiny is usually good for letting shit slide for the sake of continuing the conversation but for some reason he’s extremely uncharitable towards vaush. Idk I’m a fan of both but destiny’s been making it tough recently

[@LiquidSteve89]

It’s obv why: he actually feels threatened by Vaush, and the reason why shows in this debate... he just doesn’t have good arguments/rebuttals against Vaush

[@BenReillySpydr1962]

@@LiquidSteve89 He's not threatened. He views him as a friend not a competitor so he's hurt. If he *didn't* like Vaush like say Sargon or even Hasan he'd do better.

[@LiquidSteve89]

Ben Reilly so he’s hurt from a friend so therefore he acts in complete bad faith towards him during a debate? Nah dude, he doesn’t feel he can substantiate his arguments well vs Vaush

[@BenReillySpydr1962]

@@LiquidSteve89 The term "bad faith" is becoming a meme at this point. So when you get into an argument with friend or family member do you ever get heated or do you speak in formal proofs and deconstruct everything?

[@severinkempf7819]

@@BenReillySpydr1962 bad faith and getting heated are not the same thing

[@jackw4794]

This isn't debating, this is bickering.

[@lukegarcia3238]

BITCHES

[@lukegarcia3238]

Big baby BITCHES

[@MrTallformyheight]

Hey destiny, saying that “it’s boring” or “some dumb shit like X” isn’t an argument against “X”, especially when you don’t have an actual counter argument to “X”.

[@MrTallformyheight]

J ok...?

[@dokuzi6]

destiny became so off in his debating style

[@lymmy9609]

Translation "destiny talks about how bad communism now :("

[@lukegarcia3238]

These two are hilarious, something satisfying about seeing them annoy each other

[@michaelstead4062]

You talk about wanting to talk policy pretty well. But then you you say you can't, specifically referring the scope of global climate change policy. When did you lie? Or is that rhetorical style. Wait then you ask Vaush for global climate change policy based suggestions. Cool. Then you attack a strawman of Vaushes' position global climate change policy. Destiny Shapiro.

[@dnciskkk9037]

They can only discuss US envirnomental policies. That is the only thing they can control by voting.

[@michaelstead4062]

​@@dnciskkk9037 They can discuss whatever they want. You can't preemptively use the constraints of what is "possible" BEFORE any idea is tabled. Destiny Shapiro.

[@michaelstead4062]

@@curtishancock432 Vaush didn't quite get 'em out but, but Destiny has a mighty fine interpretation of them that I'm sure he'd love for you to use.

[@dnciskkk9037]

@@michaelstead4062 Yes, they can make it pointless, and discuss irrelevant stuff. But Destiny said this was a debate about US politics, and the bernie or bust thing, and why he supported Biden. And that is the videos Vaush made about Destiny that made it happen. So in that case, it is false marketing. I feel sorry for Steven, he seems like a good guy with the best intentions, wanting to help Vaush, and go out of his way to promote him, flying out to do a debate, and this is the thanks he gets.

[@lolwhatidk]

Destiny had no moral center in this debate.

[@mav8535]

This childish screeching is getting annoying.

[@Enthos2]

This interaction was kind of... Concerning. Is destiny under some kind of personal stress or did this happen right after something else? Cus this seemed like a lashing out that wasn't proportional to anything Vaush said or did

[@clarkzy]

I think constantly debating these people is taking its toll, having a debate based stream can take its toll especially when it’s not only the debate you have to deal with, it’s all the fall out and comments, it’s not easy. I think he needs to sometimes take a breath and maintain composure but remember he’s not debating intellectuals, he’s debating you tubers who live in a constant echo chamber

[@HiddenOcelot]

@JC Denton how very collectivist of you to say sir.

[@jasoncoomer1226]

*Neither of them should be allowed within 100yrds of any Elementary School*

[@Siad747]

Especially Vaush, with his C.P takes yikessssssssss

[@Dinobot2]

Anyone: Hey, here's a point that's slightly different but still relates to the overall topic and i'll connect it back and show how it relates Destiny: PIVOT! PIVOT! STOP PIVOTING! OH MY GOD PIVOT!!!

[@johngamer-bp3pc]

unless its a policy, its not related. so its pivot

[@TheTheThe_]

@@johngamer-bp3pc Is this a joke?

[@piedpiper6425]

TRRRRUUUEEEEE

[@ph4tcat]

Imagine establishing leftist debating on twitch and KZbin, and throwing it away because you decide to act like a little baby. Disappointing.

[@ekhowo1475]

when tf did he establish "leftist debating"? he just had debates and convos with conservatives and now leftist. not everyone who attacks conservatives is a leftist lol

[@GrahamSiggins]

ekhowo i mean he has literally called himself a socdem for multiple years now but if you wanna say that isnt left then ok

[@firesong7825]

Literally started with Hasan showing his true colors after the slightest criticism on Destiny's part, so no, he wasn't acting immature in disavowing leftists after they have continued to show themselves to be delusional liars over and over again. He's disavowed leftists, but he hasn't stopped being a proponent of progressive (not communist) ideals.

[@GrahamSiggins]

Fire Song imagine disavowing a political leaning just because there are some bad faith actors who support that political leaning. I think most of us here can agree that mike from PA/hasan/the serfs suck. Leftism is still good. Vaush is still good. Your argument is not

[@ph4tcat]

Ez Af yesss give me your hate. It gives me power! Ha ha ha!

[@chaise79]

ngl destiny looks real bad here yikes

[@randomcomment6635]

Michael exactly. Destiny’s policies might not be the “solution “ as Vaush puts it, but they would make much more ground than Vaush’s revolutionary proposal, which probably won’t happen until decades from now...if it even happens.

[@chaise79]

@@michael138 Just the whole why are you mentioning my net worth :( was really cringey sounds like a 5 year old. Also saying that wealth doesnt affect your voting is hella stupid, yea it doesnt to the GAMERxddd type group he is involved in but 90% of the normies vote for their own good.

[@Dmichoacan]

Idk who this vaush guy is, but ironically Destiny sounds like a person who hasn't done any reading. It sounds like the only thing he's read is Wikipedia entries.

[@craydogdog1530]

And that's what he actually does.

[@anteaterking6728]

Because that's where he does his """""research"""""

[@Dmichoacan]

@@anteaterking6728 Big Brain debater

[@Dmichoacan]

Destiny is the type of guy to say philosophy (or art/music/stylistic writing) is useless mumbo-jumbo.

[@Jeevanm71]

Destiny can’t fathom trying to shift the Overton window

[@Esoliken]

Alright, we shift it. Then what? What action do we take? Do we keep shifting in perpetuity, and begin murdering socialists like the early 20th century socialists?

[@cognizant8512]

Destiny: "I just want to talk policy" Vaush: "Ok, that's fine. What policies do you want to talk about" Destiny: "STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR SOCIALIST FAIRY-TALE REVOLUTION" Vaush: "Ok, you seem to be acting in bad faith here, what policies do you want to discuss?" Destiny: "GOD, YOU LEFTIES. I JUST WANT TO TALK ABOUT POLICY." Vaush: "What policies do you want to talk about." Destiny: "POLICY!"

[@dnciskkk9037]

Policies are stuff that congress will entertain and vote on, pass and implement. Discussing Vaush dreams that are not on the table is just childish

[@subhasishadhikary1296]

destiny mentioned policies that are 100x more likely than vaush's socialist revolution. now vaush believes his socialist utopia will be able to tackle these problems better, destiny disagrees on that point too. what was the point of bringing up the white moderate thing lol it doesnt even make sense

[@prawnwizard6366]

@@subhasishadhikary1296 increasing class consciousness by a non-zero amount if not a socialist utopia idk why destiny keeps screaming this like it means anything

[@Hunterchuck]

The problem with talks of policy that fits the current state of congress is that policy tends to not help people who desperately need help in any major way. Destiny's 'policies' don't improve the economic situation people are faced with who need change now rather than waiting for their great great grandchildren. The progressive movements primary objective is to change minds of thousands into millions, and then with the growing numbers of people getting on board with these much needed changes congress will become more pressured to do something about it. Destiny has been very anti-progressive movement and his lame excuse for it is that it's just not popular enough right now. Yeah no shit. That's the point and that's what we are working on.

[@prawnwizard6366]

@@doctordankeston2569 I have no idea what position you're arguing for or against

[@chandler7493]

Don't alienate Vaush, he's one of the good ones 😔

[@chandler7493]

@John Chaser I thought he seemed like he was doing less of the communist thing and more for *just* radical restructure into more socially owned society

[@Jasonsmith-sr1ke]

He’s not. Describe Vaush to any average American and ask them what they think of him. I guarantee they would condemn him.

[@chandler7493]

​@@Jasonsmith-sr1keIn retrospect, this was a miss. It's still true though that he's right more often than his associates like Hasan.

[@Jasonsmith-sr1ke]

@@chandler7493 Lmao why'd you reply to a three year old comment. Funnily enough, I agree more with Vaush than I do Destiny nowadays. Personally think Destiny is an insufferable punk now. It's always fun to look back at my old comments and see how things have changed haha.

[@GiLLMaTicZz]

Destiny acts like policy exists in a vacuum... political economy (e.g. Popular support) plays into policy so much. Socialist/ progressive movements, while they might not have sparked revolution, have helped shape the policy we take for granted today (e.g. the Wagner Act in the US). So, yeah, an aspirational element to left discourse does not hurt. Try campaigning on mulitlateral trade agreements and see where that gets you...

[@kingarthur2199]

Nice to see that Destiny is willing to post videos of him getting destroyed aswell.

[@chemicalspu1482]

He always has

[@timofcent1]

It was honestly hard to watch. I've been a fan of him since his JonTron debate, but recently it seems like Destiny is slipping into a realm I'm uncomfortable with. First it was the 'just end it if you can't get a job in this economy'' meme, then he literally called some dude's dead dad a moron several times. Now he gets triggered by a 10 second sound byte and goes unreasonably nuclear on someone he was JUST friendly with. Like, fuck man. Edit: "dude's dead dad" not "dead dude's dad."

[@timofcent1]

@usucdik First of all, it's not the 'language' I have an issue with. It's the fact that he seems more willing to hit bellow the belt line well beyond reason recently. Honestly, his unchartibilty towards Vaush in this video bothers me more than anything else, and he doesn't even use edgy language in it. Second, I'm a VOD loser and have a hard time catching his streams when he's not playing fucking LoL. But I don't remember him ever being hyperbolic to the extent of angrily screaming that someone he disagrees with's dad died because he was a "dumb fuck." And based on DGG's live reactions, it would seem most of them were caught off guard by these statements as well.

[@timofcent1]

@usucdik Fuck it, I'm locked in the house and have nothing better to do, so here we go. Those sure were a lot of words to say nothing at all. Maybe you're even less initiated than I am with this community, but I PROMISE you DGG doesn't usually vitriolically attack Destiny during a live video review (maybe on Reddit afterwards, sure). Also, you're the one who disingenuously boiled all of my criticisms down to "language." From my very first post, my problems were with recent behavior and had nothing to do with language. Unless you want to make the argument that his behavior is expressed through language, which is of course true but absurdly vacuous. From what I can tell, the only reason you'd bring up language is to construct a strawman that's easier to attack than my actual criticisms. You can go ahead and figure out another verbose way to say 'you're wrong' with no other substantive arguments, but it's clear you're not going to actually engage with anything I say. So have a good life.

[@SDM-Zone]

So Destiny, what trade agreements could ever possibly stop climate change? Show me any economist or anything who has ever claimed that these partnerships could solve climate change. Also "solve" = stop or make no longer an issue. Slightly addressing a problem way after it becomes too big to stop doesn't do anything.

[@emwZEEK]

I mean its easy to imagine a hypothetical trade agreement that solves climate change (or at least postpones it significantly such that you have more time for tech innovation), you get america, india, and china to come together and set a ground rule of reducing carbon emissions by whatever % is mathematically necessary as a baseline for the deal (probably something like 60% each). And switching to nuclear power would probably be the fastest way to accomplish something like this. What ever the deal is, it would have to be highly beneficial to all parties such that its worth the effort to reduce emissions. If they cannot come to a deal no trade whatsoever should exist between those nations. If a nation does not meet their yearly quota the deal ends and trade ceases. You could also expand it to be a worldwide deal and collectively sanction any country not meeting quotas (which would effectively destroy any modern country).

[@SDM-Zone]

@UCBhGc_6beMMEKbTQe_rQYFg It it was worded in any way to stop climate change Trump would ask Mitch to shelf it and it would be shelved. Also if it is completely unrelated then that is a pivot and Destiny should actually answer the man's question.

[@SDM-Zone]

@@emwZEEK That could work but you know what you are arguing for? A worldwide European Union style framework trade treaty which is batshit insane radical and hypothetical. If the penalties are high, bad faith actors like China or America are not going to agree to the deal. It needs to have caveats like "Well not when I do it tho" for either nation to even consider taking it. All you need to do is solve all diplomacy everywhere and set standards that everyone everywhere has to agree to permanently and forever. I would agree that this hypothetical one world system could work but considering things appear to be working right now I doubt the libs would ever consider such a thing. Climate change needs to more conspicuous and a permanent presence all people around the world can look at happening in real time outside their windows before there will be enough pressure to actually get such a thing working.

[@emwZEEK]

@@SDM-Zone The thing is though that the primary penalty in my hypothetical is no trade. If you dont agree to the deal you also have no trade. So you are put in a position where you have to make some sort of deal as my primary premise this hinges on is that these countries cannot survive without trading with eachother. IE America would collapse if china cut off all trade tomorrow. It doesnt have to be world wide, like a said before india, china, and america are the primary cause of climate change. If those 3 countries work alone in a vacuum climate change can "probably" be solved. No single country can do shit to fight climate change. And any such trade agreement would only work if actively spearheaded by one of those "bad faith actors". I can see an american president (not any running today of course) being like "ya i am willing to hold the american, Chinese, and potentially the world economy hostage to fight climate change". The person/country leading the charge would have to have enough economic weight that other countries would practically collapse without trading with them. It would need to be a cold war situation but with trade rather than nukes. Or on the flip side enough smaller countries get together to completely ruin the larger ones if they dont comply, but thats even less likely. Trump already did something similar to China specifically when he tried to tariff them and renegotiate. Do i think any of this will actually happen? hell no lol, but its easy to "imagine" how it could work within today's structures if we had a few good faith actors pop up in key leadership positions.

[@Isariu11]

I love how vaush brings up destiny class, where destiny came from ohio and went through a rougher childhood and vaush was born in beverly hills with two hollywood exec parents lol

[@markreadin7124]

Destiny is so coked up and triggered that he's posting content that makes him look bad...

[@Panda-dw1he]

@Kayden wtf yes he does

[@Panda-dw1he]

@Kayden if your going to say its his editor don't be so fking dumb. He tells him what to post and oks each one before posting. Fucking idiot

[@Panda-dw1he]

@Kayden you are fucking dumb snd wrong. Hahaha wtf

[@JamesBur]

Destiny is great at taking down dumb alt righters but fails really hard against people who know what they're talking about

[@landonjacob8922]

JamesBur I wouldn’t say larping as a revolutionary with no way to implement policies is knowing what your talking about

[@chainmail5886]

Lol. Destiney got ripped by multiple right wingers. He just fought low levels mostly.

[@landonjacob8922]

Lalasong by who

[@chainmail5886]

@@landonjacob8922 Ryan Faulk. Mister Metokur just to name a few. Nake Ape. The problem with the nature of debate is that it doesn't always mean the person who wins is correct. Just think of a few debates you lost in your life when you knew you were right.

[@iz2333]

@@landonjacob8922 Not everyone is a larper just because they're on the left. Advocating for socialism is advocating for the world to move past capitalism. It is not relevant wether we can do this right at this second, it is a long term goal that can not just be implemented through policy.

[@flawlessduck5244]

Destiny's severe lack of understanding when it comes to the extreme rich influence on our world is troubling.

[@Alberts_Stuff]

Destiny sounds like Ed Nortons and Quinten Tarentinos love child 😂

[@HebrewsElevenTwentyFive]

Spot on 😂🤙🏾

[@Maruragakari]

Quentin Tarantino*

[@Alberts_Stuff]

@@Maruragakari lol, yeah that was an epic fail 😂

[@BUDGETBALLER]

Lmaoo Destiny actually reminds me so much of Edward Norton

[@Alberts_Stuff]

@@BUDGETBALLER 😂 same

[@Alberts_Stuff]

As a 'not very' political Brit, I found this absolutely fascinating 👍🏻

[@ethantaylor9613]

Vaush: says thing Destiny: RRREEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!11!!!!

[@MirdjanHyle]

When Destiny brought up the air in LA I genuinely bursted into laughter. Did anyone remember back then when he was roasting Lauren Southern for saying that "Data is the plural of anecdote"? This is genuinely unimpressive.

[@adamboyle3331]

It’s not really an anecdote when it happened to tens of millions of people.

[@MirdjanHyle]

@@adamboyle3331 you're posting Cringe right now. 1) Los Angeles has a 4 million population according to data polled in 2017. Even considering the whole LA County we are barely talking about ten, absolutely not tenS of millions. Also there are so many variables in how the whole County is affected by pollution that to shrug it off and say "it's probably fine" is absolutely laughable. 2) I'm not an environmental physicist, but I interviewed many of them and I can promise you their method is NOT, in fact, to go to downtown LA and check how the good ol' air is doin' over there. 3) There was no data brought up to ground the point of the air in LA getting so much better, which already puts us squarely on feels over reals territory. 4) This idea that you can effectively gauge the contribution of fundamental policies towards GLOBAL WARMING just by saying how you feel about the air of THE NINETY SEVENTH city by population internationally, considering that we have cities like Tokyo which are an order of magnitude bigger than good ol' LA, and considering we are speaking about a phenomenon of ungodly complexity that have more to do with chemical reactions in the troposphere, the integrity of the permafrost and the overall temperature of the oceans is absolutely hysterical.

[@adamboyle3331]

@@MirdjanHyle oh sorry, just FOUR MILLION anecdotes. Totally different bro.

[@MirdjanHyle]

@@adamboyle3331 did you run a longitudinal study over four million people? Is it peer reviewed? Because this sounds very expensive. Is your four million study group founded by Jeff Besos or something? Because if this is not the case I will have to conclude you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

[@tyrannicide3395]

Destiny did the vuvuzela argument in this debate.

[@therealzizmon1748]

Big sad. Both papa's are fighting again! >.

[@Bolizen]

Vaush was more discussing

[@therealzizmon1748]

@@CaBdosdos Why not? :v

[@therealzizmon1748]

@@Bolizen Yeah, Destiny got way too angry but I guess he's just sick of the leftie arc and wants to move on? Anyways, my comment was kind of meant as joke anyways :p

[@alexanderacheson2961]

@@Bolizen by discussing do you mean personally attacking destiny then when confronted role back the goalpost completely.

[@CrestOfArtorias]

@@alexanderacheson2961 Like the spineless fuck he is.

[@awesomegamer9981]

Destiny this is why no one wants to debate you

[@channelwhoa66]

Destiny you were demolished in this one.