You Should NOT Be Proud To Be Patriotic | Abdullah Al Andalusi | Oxford Union

Abdullah Al Andalusi argues against the motion that 'This House is Proud to be Patriotic'.
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Abdullah Al Andalusi, founder of the public discussion forum 'The Muslim Debate', responds to these comments by making a distinction between humanitarianism and patriotism; he claims that whilst there are "no vices" in the former, there are no "no virtues" in the latter. We ought to look after the interests of the whole world, he explains, rather than those of our own country.
Filmed on Thursday 14th November 2013
MOTION: This House is Proud To Be Patriotic
RESULT: Defeated.
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ABOUT AL ANDALUSI:
Abdullah al Andalusi is an international speaker, thinker and intellectual activist for Islam and Muslim affairs. His work involves explaining and demonstrating, by rational argument, the intellectual proofs for the Islamic belief system, and promoting the Islamic way of life and Islamic solutions for contemporary problems. On a personal note, Abdullah takes Islamic opinions from the classical Sunni schools of thought.
ABOUT THE OXFORD UNION SOCIETY:
The Union is the world's most prestigious debating society, with an unparalleled reputation for bringing international guests and speakers to Oxford. It has been established for 190 years, aiming to promote debate and discussion not just in Oxford University, but across the globe.

[@starplatinum5325]

I love the fact that the people who disagree with him instead of having a counter-speech they start attacking Islam for no reason ..lol

[@fakename3440]

Hehe in my experience, muslims are more likely to be patriotic.

[@starplatinum5325]

@@fakename3440 Islam teaches you to do good everywhere not just in your country.

[@fakename3440]

@@starplatinum5325 yeah I know, my family is extremely patriotic and muslim at the same time but I know not every muslim is like that.

[@MyDavidlynch]

@@starplatinum5325 everyone scared of isIslam mad cult innit

[@starplatinum5325]

@@MyDavidlynch k

[@tremordrake1749]

Wow...look at these comments.. There is a difference between Loyalty(blind) and CRITICAL LOYALTY you can be proud and yet be critical at the same time just because its a muslim speaking... -- your discrimination truly knows no bounds

[@joshdean9105]

Stfu

[@fz3806]

Josh Lawrence you know he’s right

[@muhammadsyaiful8442]

@@joshdean9105 what kind of phob youre facing darling..

[@wokesheep]

@@joshdean9105 aww! It's okay... you'll get over it 🤗

[@OmarMohamed-qx1vq]

@Pieter Maas but there are some hadith that are fake. But most Muslims don't care enough to do some research, they just follow blindly and thats how groups like ISIS and other terrorist groups are formed. Muslims need to learn but they dont care to, so forget them.

[@erwinsmith5381]

اَللهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَى سَيِّدِنَا مُحَمَّد وَعَلَى آلِ سَيِّدِنَا مُحَمَّد۞

[@cameronadair5422]

Phuq your prophet.

[@Alexander-rq9he]

Excellent presentation! I’ve always felt this way..and that flags are dangerous and represent our differences. Love his accent by the way...

[@Hightower489]

Great speech. Patriotism can be limiting and dangerous. I much prefer the idea of being a citizen of the world.

[@hornypervert3781]

Hightower489 why stop there? I prefer to be a citizen of the galaxy.

[@mohamedmowliid7132]

@@hornypervert3781 why stop there? We could act like gods ultimate creation that we actually are...don't you think

[@cameleonpiano5255]

@@hornypervert3781a citizen of the universe would be more fitting for me

[@diemanner7164]

Humanity first.

[@joshdean9105]

fuck off. IM PROUD TO BE ENGLISH

[@MrDeathhtaed]

It's okay! I'm in Canada and I'll help the people here inshallah

[@Al-sg7kr]

"Help"

[@mohamedyusuf5141]

@@Al-sg7kr ? Is there a problem?

[@MyDavidlynch]

Saad Merhebi yuk no thanks

[@cawilomar7926]

@@MyDavidlynch leave Canada white msn

[@cawilomar7926]

@@MyDavidlynch *man

[@EnigMagnum]

many people attacking his religion instead of saying a word against his argument dont even know that he is a convert to islam

[@naiustheyetti]

because his words ring hollow when the country he settled in was a country made great by patriotism. the western nations were built off the backs of men and women who were not only patriotic but also nationalistic and believed that there country was great, the people prideful and their government untrustworthy and now we allowed our governments to bring people who tell us not care for our nations, religions and that patriotism is a slight against our character. to most of these "citizens of the world" types that want mankind to be under one rule to help each other should be questioned "and who will be at the reigns?"

[@logicweaver7152]

@@naiustheyetti i think you missed the point. The country was made on backs of people who were patriotic, and these very same people committed such vile atrocities that we would now condemn them.

[@MohamedShou]

@@naiustheyettiyou better defend those “patriotic” ancestors that used colonialism, imperialism and slavery to achieve their “great glory” 🤷🏾‍♂️. But of course you want to pick and choose

[@naiustheyetti]

@@MohamedShou i dont have to defend our ancestors. love them or hate them but history cant be undo and i am not so arrogant to use my morality that was made in the current era and use it to judge people in the past.

[@JudeKnowsWhatYouDoNot]

@@naiustheyetti imperialism is current though

[@radhathapa8111]

NGL, I want a friend with his sense of humor.🤣🤣 His speech was pretty solid tho.

[@oxVirtuexo]

As soon as he broke in to the first TRUTH, no one laughed. They KNOW it’s true.

[@cameronvinson]

What's the first truth you are talking about

[@omaramr6107]

those people didn't deserve his humor

[@mrAsim7]

Love and arrogance are not the same, if you love your country but are not arrogant in regards to it, then that's fine. But to be arrogant about something so relative as to where your parent spat you out is irrational and shallow.

[@AggroChip]

Not everyone got the 'muslamic ray gun' reference joke :)

[@herewardthewake5502]

+Elvis Quinn There was no joke and most sensible people would take the 'Muslamic ray gun' for what it was, one pissed up person talking shit.

[@AggroChip]

what are you talking about? Are you saying i'm drunk. I wasn't "pissed up" when I made that comment, thanks. What a bizarre thing to imply.

[@AggroChip]

Listen here pal, the speaker clearly referenced the "muslamic raygun" thing as a joke, albeit an unsuccesful one as evidently no-one in the crowd knew what he was referancing. I didn't understand your first comment because it was completely off track to what I was simply saying. so stop being such a whiney little bitch on youtube and get a life or something like that

[@memmesss_hehe]

@Nathan Nitai Das lol

[@earaaneder2589]

Shiekh Abdullah Al-Andalusi really knocked out even the debate. Thumbs up & Hats off💪

[@Trajanify]

This man makes me more proud to be British.

[@paksallion]

@True Heart shhh.

[@johnpereira9755]

Trajanify: Most of the time Abdul was talking to the table the only object that can respect him.

[@joshdean9105]

SAME

[@DipakBose-bq1vv]

If he is a British, Britain will die very soon.

[@mohamedyusuf5141]

@Connie L. Heart Not everything is about you smdh. The UK isn't this grand prize anyways. Trust me, I would know. It's just contrary to Islamic values. But you don't get that do you?

[@notforthebirds]

On point!

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

This is simple. Our identity should be primarily be toward humankind globally, and secondarily toward our subgroups such nation or sports team or family or religion or sports team or political wing, for examples

[@samtavoosian3059]

👍🏻👍🏻

[@faheemsyed690]

Bro abdullah send me your channel link.

[@rogersmith6813]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJC5p5uoqb5seJo

[@lennonkelly-james2693]

This is like going to a muslim country and telling them the Quran is wrong.

[@mimachan2557]

if you put a law to not disscuss bible or whatever other subject in you country@free speech” ,we will follow the law & we will not say anything , but you open this discussion . every country has its own laws , we all should follow & respect the law , agree 🤝

[@lennonkelly-james2693]

@@mimachan2557 It's a shame you don't have free speech in Muslim countries so you need to come over here to talk nonsense.

[@Notreallyhereanymore]

@@lennonkelly-james2693he was born here but sure 👍👍

[@lennonkelly-james2693]

@@Notreallyhereanymore Doesn't matter.

[@ishfaqhussain3232]

*Masha-Allah br Abdullah...The answer to their problems are staring them in their faces but they still believe Jesus is God and is white with blue eyes!!!*

[@childofolivares8754]

All societies suffer from patriotism. Not just the west. You're comment was unnecessary

[@adamyahya4734]

Rimadim dim. Sharia Law is superior than any law. Liberalism is a failure.

[@cameronadair5422]

F*** Allah.

[@paupausher2933]

Enjoy watching your video...God bless you..😘😘

[@yasararafatha3139]

Wise words

[@salmanbinahmed8253]

Simple way to prove it is, You will end up hating a patriot of a diff country. When, inherently you love a person who thinks like you, you become friends and grow bonds with people who think like you, but in this specific case, someone who thinks like you becomes your enemy, your rival, your competition. Make that make sense. Lol.

[@commentscrusader3842]

I truly believe patriotism leads and encourages racism and segregation

[@xz-187]

So is wokism and islam.

[@Notreallyhereanymore]

@@xz-187nope

[@AbdulKhader-786]

Patriotism is the first step to full throttle national socialism and fascism

[@AindreasMcHale21]

Muhammad Abdul Qaadir oppose to religion which incites murderous fanaticism, particularly Islam.

[@almuwahhid6561]

@@AindreasMcHale21 Nobody can be more murderous then atheism Like soviet union

[@SiestaMyWaifu]

@@AindreasMcHale21 If Islam Is A Bad Religion Then It Will Perish A Long Time Ago.......Cope.

[@pjguyer24]

These opening remarks memind me of the kids with charasism in my debate class in 1993 lol

[@muhammadtawsif4100]

Right , the British Raj has drawn maps and borders and the people's patriotism have sputtered out!

[@mr.coolmug3181]

"They're on Zulu land! What do you expect them to do? welcome them?" Well here in Britain it's expected of us to be welcoming towards people who are actively intolerant of us.

[@pinball1970]

@Mustafa I have never stolen off anyone and empires other than the British empire, Ottoman for instance.

[@un7490]

@Mustafa yes but u don't belong here so piss off

[@DaniyalAhmed-lb2eo]

@@un7490 you don't belong here,who knows your ancestors would most likely be Norwegian,French,Romans,.So your actually a immigrant

[@jaffercr7]

@@un7490 who died and made you to impose that statement

[@linaabojaradehart]

Yes because migrants are coming to Britain with armies and massacring brits?

[@SuperSupermanX1999]

Asking whether helping rebels in Syria is in our best interests is not Patriotism. It's basic foreign policy. Yes the Assad Regime is unacceptably brutal, but our past attempts to help the rebels have only succeeded in handing weapons over to groups such as ISIS. It does not require blind patriotism for one to ask "is it really a good idea to send more support to these people?"

[@soapmactavish5355]

You really didn’t get what he said did you. He’s saying patriotism leads to helping people due to selfishness rather than benevolence. Besides, ISIS was created as a result of the Iraq invasion.

[@Samchocolate11]

@JackHoff however the rebels bein secular and intolerant were not and did not protect Christians during the Syrian uprising. Don't tarnish muslims with the same brush, not all Muslims fall into your narrow description make a point of noting so. Nor do Muslims invade Britain, care to explain how? Please don't use the argument of them having mosques and wearing clothes which is their personal choice, practising your religion is different from invading.

[@user-bk9mq8pr3f]

Great lecture 👍❤️

[@Ach-raf-]

Amazing speech!

[@alpeshmittal3779]

Patriotism is bad, we all MUST be loyal to UMMAH!!!! Neil Armstrong said one giant leap from Ummah as he also reverted!!

[@ironthor9525]

Alpesh Mittal 😑😑😑thats fake

[@letsdrawcircle]

Ummah is not based on the lines drawn on maps dividing regions. Ummah is a nation , a group of people differentiating themselves on the foundations of truth . There is a huge difference, it’s like comparing white color with black. You have misunderstood the word ummah . I was expecting a Hindu to be spitting some venom. I wish Hindus also come out of their biases against Muslims. Islam is only truth in world , understand that my boy

[@simonhakon3447]

Lmaoooo found the liberal. I am muslim and I totally oppose to your anti-nationalism.

[@johnd4979]

He nailed it!

[@ankugreat5373]

U should not feel proud to be patriotic but feel proud over religion. classic hypocrisy. 😂

[@__Man__]

You will never accept Muslim idea. Religion first, country and nation the last

[@Real_Gigachaddi]

Yes. I love religion

[@alphafish4756]

Can anyone link me pro patriotism debate

[@soapmactavish5355]

Why, you got nothing else to identify with?

[@leejones8733]

if you think that religion and politics are not linked. you know nothing about religion............ gandhi

[@mohammadasad7308]

You are completely knowledgless...

[@selimtahir953]

Lee Jones gandhi was a racist

[@leejones8733]

@@selimtahir953 i thought brown people couldnt be racist?

[@leejones8733]

@@mohammadasad7308 what do you think of gay men?

[@JACKSONVILLE1200]

I LOVE HES JOKES LOOL. THE BEST WAY TO DESTROY RACISM IS MAKE THEM FEEL SMALL AND LAUGH AT THEM. THEY HATE LOL

[@MyDavidlynch]

Mo murdered 19 jokers he needs to study his Koran on being allowed to joke ...

[@mohdyusnormohdyusof9548]

Patriotism is a defence mechanism.

[@glasgowblackchigowski6117]

More like consensual slavery

[@Samchocolate11]

@jommytrouser maybe Islam provides him solace, peace of mind and an answer to life. Just because YOU can't find anything intelligent or extra with it doesn't mean others can't. Intelligence is subjective. You wouldn't be saying that of you knew about the things you take for granted which came from Islamic world e.g. Advancement in maths, technology etc.

[@almuwahhid6561]

@Rimadim dim yes bro . People should not be proud of their nation

[@rrob4206]

“The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that the patriot is proud of his country for what it does , and the nationalist is proud of his country no matter what it does ; the first attitude creates a feeling of responsibility while the second a feeling of blind arrogance that leads to a war .” 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔.DIDN'T PRESIDENT ELECT TRUMP SAY HE WAS A NATIONALIST? ♥️ ♥️ ♥️ I WILL TAKE A KNEE ANY DAY BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE IN PATRIOTISM.

[@masyaf897]

True Everyone and every thing should be accountable

[@comradssoulnotforsale3322]

ISLAM BEGAN AS SOMETHING STRANGE. And it will go back to being strange. So give glad tidings to the strangers. #Blessed

[@memmesss_hehe]

There are two about videos on this same topic, some of them titled You Should Be Proud To Be Patriotic and under every video the comments were in favour to the one giving the speech.I mean the same people commenting here watch the speech given by the opposition and comment in favour

[@ThePayola123]

So according to his last name, he's from Southern Spain?

[@abzinho10karim25]

Yes kind of. ..But from the iberian peninsula which long time ago consisted of Portugal.

[@awadmanoe2094]

Al Andalus was the name the Muslims gave to all of Iberia, the Spaniards used it as the name for the heartland of Muslim Iberia which is modern day Andalusia. So his use of the name Andalusi is accurate.

[@andromeda8325]

omg he's so funny!!😂😂

[@MyDavidlynch]

AN Dromeda he better run Islam doesn’t like jokes

[@MyDavidlynch]

@P800Camera E Christians saw the light a long time ago on punishment innit? when that might hav been true there Wus no candy 🍬 only a Madmadmad starting up a cult innit ?that still does it innit ?

[@MyDavidlynch]

@@Oussama-sabouh ok her we go Vhristianity used to be a rough ass religion and chop people heads off now Christianity is intelligent and has reformed Islam is and always will be stuck in the concrete because it’s incapable of changing as all natural phenomena does ..that’s why it still chops people up it’s a cult that is from a madmanmonad profiteer !

[@MyDavidlynch]

@@Oussama-sabouh who told you the Koran can’t be updated yes only mo and not allah only mo with no proof or witness and anyone who didn’t agree mo would sort them out ...95% of the camel shoulder blades and papyrus supposed to be Koran, was edited down to 5% and it’s compilation Wus still going on until the 9th century ...if it’s from god I will eat my hat 🎩

[@MyDavidlynch]

@@Oussama-sabouh I don’t do Twitter too many nutters ...

[@celtislam]

Great Mashallah

[@cameronvinson]

Islam is territorial if islam loses any territory almost anything is justified to get territory back in islamic rule.

[@stevenclark5646]

That man says he is a citizen of the world that's contrary to his religious beliefs he is being very deceptive about his standing koran 3:28

[@user-mr4bt1yn9w]

I'm proud to be British and being patriotic is to be willing to defend the values for which a nation stands. In 1215 parliament was created to ensure the liberty and democratic process of the nation. It obviously has developed somewhat since then but the point still stands that liberty and democracy are at the heart of our nation. I simply will not accept this rhetoric that some people spew out about how patriotism causes racial issues ect. When in fact it is completely independent of race. If you stand for liberty and democracy then I will stand with you. The British flag is a symbol of these aims in my eyes. You should be patriotic it promotes diversity which really is the spice of life I don't want to live in a world where everyone is to afraid to say they're proud of their culture and where they're from.

[@almuwahhid6561]

you british killed muslims un iraq to force you Liberty and democracy.

[@M_Hamza]

3:16 Donald Trump was also there 😀

[@captianuniverse3549]

😂

[@markstamper1]

I see him lmao

[@user-bk9fk2tq2z]

He is Sir Bill Cash, a Tory MP XD

[@Arxces]

If you are proud of your country and its achievements you are taking pride in other people's accomplishments. It is likely you have done very little for your country, and the greatness of a country is built upon the small contributions you and your fellow countrymen make. Why not do something great for your country, and then have pride in your own contribution instead of the achievement of others?

[@sumansharma9674]

True👍👍

[@Arxces]

@Atharv Pathak You are benefitting from something you didn't do. Should you not instead be humbled and grateful for what your ancestors have sacrificed so you could have what you have today?

[@prvzmehdi8368]

@@sumansharma9674 but modi wants you to worship bharat Mata for achieving poverty, division and creating a immoral andinhumane society

[@sumansharma9674]

@@prvzmehdi8368 please show your impotent rage somewhere else.

[@simonhakon3447]

@@Arxces Simply being proud about someone's achievement means I am benefitting in what way? Am I stealing someone's stuff? I like how you try so hard to twist it in some way for your liberal agenda. Stay opposed to patriotism all you want. I delivered my piece of mind and won't change it.

[@tictoc5443]

How many states did islamic caliphates invade? We all have unique identities in out body systems and personal experience ...like it or not We also have group identities ...like it or not

[@linaabojaradehart]

But Islam brings people of different ethnicities together and teaches that we are all equal, that there is no difference between a black man or a white man or a man or a woman except in faith to God. Muslims when expanding their empire did not kill minorities the way Western colonizers did because they were governed by strict moral laws (no cutting of trees, no killing of civilians, protection of religious minorities etc.)

[@tictoc5443]

@@linaabojaradehart maybe u have read islamophile history books The historic facts as i understand them are that many lands have been conquered with force under the banner of islam And as for equality imo it doesnt exist ..there are rich and poor muslims as with any other tribe Forced equality is not freedom anyway jmo

[@linaabojaradehart]

@@tictoc5443 islamophile? It's factual history. All historians agree that for example when Salah Eldin 'conquered' jerusalem he did not kill any non combatants and was extremely lenient with the Crusaders, even though they had brutally massacred all muslims. This is one example. The fact that there are still Christians and Jews living in muslim countries means that no one was forced to convert. In fact Jews would travel to Muslim countries because they were well treated there in comparison to Christian Europe.

[@tictoc5443]

@@linaabojaradehart yes and no Jews were indeed generally treated better by muslims than christians historically Nevertheless there were still regular slaughter of jews in the middle east also ...you can google it for references Moreover christians and other non muslims are regularly killed in muslim countries in recent times I am all for peace and tolerance towards other tribes whether ethnic or religous but judging from hiztory good fences really do make good neighbours however unfortunate that might be

[@tictoc5443]

@@linaabojaradehart i watched a bit of one of your videos and you look a genuine peaceful person All i would ask is that you maintain a free mind and understand history is seen through the lens of the writer Imo we should all develop our understanding through analysis of the facts presented and not be too trusting of anyone

[@eg4848]

He has the privilege of being able to denounce patriotism in the west, but some of the most hyper nationalist shit I see is from muslim pakistanis and turks and stuff. Just kinda ironic

[@may986]

he is soo good 😂

[@FaisalKhan-iw6tw]

How are you patriotic British people better than me- an Indian.

[@luciusseneca4380]

Religion is a form of patriotism thus all religious people here are hypocrites

[@mahadoww]

"Religion is merely a set of beliefs, values and laws, not a 'nationalism'. In Islam, the Quran tells us to stand forth for justice, even against our own families and friends if required. In Islam, justice and truth are the only loyalties. So perhaps your statement doesn't apply, at least that is, to all religions."

[@luciusseneca4380]

Mahad Mohammed Well Muslims pray 5 times a day whilst facing Mecca, thus Patriotism towards Mecca, housing a Black baetylus , I do not need a Book of fairy tales called Quran to tell me what Justice is.

[@azadam1000]

lucius you seem not to understand that atheism is a belief as well .Your fellow believers believed the universe to be etrnal . But it seems that the universe obeys laws . Actually Allah reminds us that difference of colours and language are a sign and that if He pleases He can exchange us for a new creation . True the earth does not need us not depending upon us lol also Allah is not dependent on us believing in Him or not . Just as the sun (who submitts) will be destroyed it is just that because it has no own will it stops there . As for us human beings and djinkind will pay because we have free will and choose to be fuel for fire . So we can say one fails the test and gets Fired(in hell) salam aleikom Lucius seneca

[@luciusseneca4380]

atheism is not a belief, but the rejection of imaginary entities, therefore can also mean "Mentally Healthy", the opposite of Schizophrenia, bear in the mind we are born lacking any belief (atheist) in imaginary father figures who live in the sky.

[@mahadoww]

"the doctrine or belief that there is no God." - dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism

[@yalkira5886]

People in the comments are not talking about the subject in the video lol .They're just saying shit about islam just because the speaker is a muslim .shame on you all

[@CulturedPotato]

It's good to be a patriot 👍🇬🇧

[@soapmactavish5355]

Imagine lacking so much purpose in life that the only form of validation you try to get is from the country you’re from...

[@mikelitorous5570]

So should muslims not be allowed to practice their religion because of the caliphate that enslaved Africans and Europeans while conquering their lands

[@stephenowen3383]

The issue with this statement is that it broadly doesn't understand how the world works, and believes in what is very clearly a utopian ideal. He says that "if I was in Canada I would do a duty to Canadian society", sure, same as many patriots would, but that means nothing, as most people who are not internationalist do not have those opportunities for whatever reason, which creates a greater attachment to the place they call home, as they feel there is something so distinct to that home that they must maintain it. On his claim that it inherently says "so humans are more equal than others", yes, it inherently says that some humans are more of importance than others to the general public of a nation, because they may live similar lives to those people, benefit from similar things, have similar challenges and perhaps even be known, of course innately they form part of the same nation as you do and innately are always going to be preferred. This is how the world works, and is a feeling that obviously needs to be suppressed to some extent, but not seen as wholly a bad thing, as the alternative can cause huge pain, huge suffering and enormous instability, given how unnatural it truly is. It is the job of responsible politicians to articulate concerns sensibly, along the lines that history tells us how it can go wrong. On his silly and facicous dismissal of borders, he again forgets that at least in countries where they exist naturally, they represent groups of people who believe in certain traditions and certain virtues over others due to years of socialisation. They are not just "lines on a map", but places which have undergone their own transitions through the centuries. On foreign policy, it is a reasonable point to make that it can be immoral, and that I do believe, as most do, that to some extent help can be provided, as in the long term peace, prosperity and democracy is in the interest of the West in the Middle East, as with peace comes better trade and with peace comes the end of concerns for citizens who have an attachment to those places, which as we know causes more trouble in our own nation. In addition, it can also be argued that it wasn't in the interest of humanity to arm rebels who potentially had Jihadists within their ranks. It works both ways. Saying it is irrational is irrelevant. The world isn't rational, we cannot properly look at the world through an ultra-rational lense. Sure, you can think that all humans are humans so therefore we should care as much for all, and that is a lovely ideal, but a thoroughly unrealistic one when there is an identification that will of course occur between those who live in one area. It is unrealistic to expect anything else. The jokes are vaguely amusing, and do speak to the problems that exist in this country with ridiculous hostility to Muslims. People pick and choose because they usually experience the good. They only experienced the good of empire, they never experienced the bad and let us be clear I feel that despite the wealth, the fact that we still have huge conflicts due to the mess of decolonisation is something I regret. It is also your duty if you truly care about your country to stop those who want to ruin that. Morality played no part in Winston Churchill's decision to go to war, a sense that the UK would be destroyed by Hitler, and that idiots who ran the country were letting it happen. Of course wanting better to some extent is natural, but so is not wanting to lose what they already have. Einstein didn't feel an attachment to his country for whatever reason, but I am sure he was attached to other things.

[@dendradwar9464]

Think you have summed it up very well - one point I would add The people advancing the argument against patriotism which they define as geographic tribalism is that it is bad, as anyone outside of this geographic area is excluded. However been a good humanitarian is good, but in essence this is tribalism defined by ideology. When he states that nothing bad can come from been a morally good person the implicit assumption he is making here is "so long as what is meant by morally good person is something I agree with". Ultimately it is all tribalism but instead of geography providing the limits/bounds of the tribe this is to be replaced by the morals providing the delineation of the tribe.

[@rajeevmishra8932]

Country like Israel require patriotism and nationalist to sustain.

[@withlove6435]

That's the problem they only think about themselves and their so called promise land while violenting human rights. BTW I know u are Indian because they are more obsessed with Isreal them Jewish pp themselves.

[@TigrisVoice]

Isn't that patriotism can be close to fanaticism like religion?

[@hamzazulfi]

@Tigris Religion? But religion is way of life that gives, morality, purpose and meaning.

[@zeyadsaeed9580]

@@hamzazulfi ye, but you can be patriotic to a religion like those extremist in our ranks. Interpretation of our religion by our brothers won’t always be perfect and these unfortunately lead to war and genocide.

[@diemanner7164]

Reminds me of George Carlin.

[@souvikbanerjee1063]

George also said religion is bullshit

[@Emsyaz]

@@souvikbanerjee1063 Patriotism is a religion, but a religion of the fools who worship their country.

[@catotheelder9524]

The nation state isn't going to last much longer anyway. Antiquated concept.

[@CjJohns1776]

Au contraire, mon frère ;-do not underestimate what YOU do NOT understand

[@Al-sg7kr]

It's not antiquated at all, it's undergoing an attempted murder.

[@johnwright5569]

Isn't his argument very contradictory since he's constantly on talk shows saying he's proud to be a Muslim and not willing to see the good and bad of Islam.

[@authmanapatira3016]

John Wright not really. Islam is a way of life that a person choses based on their morality and earnestness. Whereas which country one was born into is of little control of theirs.

[@johnwright5569]

you didnt really answer any of my queries, but i do ho0ld it to ones self the question fo whether, you would rather live in a free liberal soceiety or a faith orientated soceiety?

[@authmanapatira3016]

Hi John. I would rather live in a moral, faith based society. However as Muslims, we were commanded by God (through our Prophet) to go out and preach the message--to lead others through our example, and to be a just, ethical and upright people. It doesn't make sense for us to bind together in isolationist groups, seeking God's grace alone... no more than it would make sense for a tenant in an apartment building to stay in their room when the building is burning... simply because the fire originated in another tenants building. If, as a Muslim, we see that there is corruption, oppression, theft, etc. happening in the world, then of course we ought to say and do something about it. And we should integrate with people all over, and so that's exactly what we do. I hope this answers your question...

[@authmanapatira3016]

***** I'm afraid I don't follow. I re-read my comment, actually replacing Muslim with British patriot but I sincerely don't get the point you are trying to make. Regarding you being born in France not stopping you from becoming a Briton--I don't see how anything I've said would lead one infer that. Please help me understand. My own parents were born in Nigeria and moved to the US almost 40 years ago. They are as American as Wonderbread (as I am). I understand that a person can move to a different nation and adapt and integrate to life there. What I am speaking about above is the moral compass provided by a religious framework that urges one to elevate the society around them---wherever that may be.

[@authmanapatira3016]

***** Gotcha. Well, I have to say I maintain my point and actually believe you affirmed it. A person has no control over when, where or to whom they are born. Once they mature, sure they can immigrate to a different location / nationality and even change their religion; but they can't change their ethnicity nor gender (at least not at the genetic level). As for the moral compass provided by Laws, such things are constantly changing. What's moral today is immoral tomorrow. What was immoral today is moral tomorrow. This is within a single location. Go to other places (as you've said, 'most countries') and what we see is they have a completely separate set of secular beliefs relating to what is and isn't moral.

[@inairdi5485]

Allah kareem

[@MyDavidlynch]

Ina irdi ice Kareem vanilla

[@jdemeulenaer123]

He is proud of talking freely while he should consider that he could not even dream doing this talk in a musim country...let alone Saudi Arabia... So he should be proud of where he is etc etc...

[@StutteringCoach1]

No British should be proud of Free speech in Britain, No Saudi Arabian should be ashamed of the oppressive laws in Saudi. Individuals are not responsible for country’s laws. Individuals are responsible for their own deeds and should be proud or ashamed of them.

[@catotheelder9524]

Of course he can't! Western backed middle east tyrants would torture him of he did!

[@admirhoxha9748]

its not his fault that saudi arabia is oppressive regime, who created saudi arabia in the first place!, he is a converted portugese christian

[@MMOInformers]

@Pieter Maas If you are talking about Monarchy is arabian countries which happen to be muslim sure. If you are talking from an islamic stand-point, then there is nothing wrong with talking like that in Islam. He is not claiming to be the ambassador for islamic countries, but islam itself. You are also rejecting his speech based on his belief, not on the merit of his words. You also say he can't say this in a muslim country, but he can. He can say it in kuwait, emarate, qatar and so on.. Patriotism causes elitism, and you can see that in many countries. Just like how you can see in this comment section about people going off on him by stating his religion and that he is not welcome, rather than analyze his speech. In similar situations, you see people in arab countries who some look down on people of other race because they think they are superior. "I am from country X, we are the real progressive people". Not being a patriot doesn't mean you hate your country and want to destroy it. It means your alliance isn't just with your country, its for the betterment of mankind.

[@almuwahhid6561]

@Pieter Maas Sir we muslims are also fighting against tyrant democratic country like America and europe which killed muslim in afghanistan an iraq and helps the arab tyrant and we are returning back islamic law .

[@danikolakkodan628]

❤💯

[@kareemrhouila4023]

It’s like a turf war on a global scale, I’d rather hear both sides of the tail

[@Prateek_yoga]

Deep down they know what is meant by Muslim If not then why do they need to say that I am Muslim, did any of the other people talk about their association with religion while address this space ?? Their only agenda is to do ji’had

[@CheersDits2979]

Someone should ask him if he is proud to be a Muslim? When he answers yes, ask him what the difference is?

[@QM571]

The difference is being a Muslim is something you decide, you cannot choose where you're from or what ethnicity you belong to, thus making the former something to actually be proud of because you had a say in it, whereas the latter is meaningless because you had no say in it. And Muslims share a common ideology, something which is not the case for people belonging to the same nationality or ethnicity. Remember, ideologies are what unite people, they're much thicker than blood.

[@joshdean9105]

@@QM571 dude ppl are born into islam u bint. im a proud englishman!

[@QM571]

@@joshdean9105 You can actively choose to be or not be a Muslim. That's not the same as being English. The former is something to be proud of because you chose it, the latter is something you're stuck with whether you like it or not.

[@almuwahhid6561]

@@joshdean9105 islam is a belief and country is a landmass . Country can be conquered and finish as many country have been. Islam conquers and is never conquered .

[@lewis72]

@@person10 How many Muslims have free choice about their religion ? In the Middle East, you'll likely be punished or killed for giving up Islam. _Patriotism: vigorous support for one's country._ What's wrong with that ? It's merely being actively positive towards the society in which someone lives.

[@adiliqbal2118]

Patriotism is one of the key mechanism by which a society maintains a cohesive culture, thus enhancing cooperation among those in a given proximity. To assume that it only has a negative impact is extraordinarily short sighted. He's smart enough to know that... which makes me think he has ulterior motives.

[@cnault3244]

"You Should NOT Be Proud To Be Patriotic | Abdullah Al Andalusi " You should NOT be proud to be Muslim. ( or Jewish, or Christian, or any other religion)

[@nandankirtane7484]

Thousands of soldiers die for their motherlands.Please respect their sacrifice.

[@the1stroar409]

Yeah, so do people who are starving to death but they don't get as much respect...

[@the1stroar409]

@Master Chief did I say soldiers don't deserve respect? No I'm just saying there are also poor people who's homes were invaded and got kicked out of their own homes and left to starve to death what about them???

[@almuwahhid6561]

American soldier also died when they invaded iraq and killed millions of muslims . It was good that they died

[@y2k704]

and many died pointlessly in the name of humanitarian aid, ie Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and now Ukraine

[@seanparker3704]

Patriotism doesn't require you to only contribute to your own society when abroad. Straw-man fallacy, in my opinion. Loved hearing his other points, especially in regard to Sharia Law.

[@Real_Gigachaddi]

Nothing strawman here.. He said there is a chance of wrongdoing from a patriot but not from a "moralist only".. He said there is nothing there which patriotism can provide but moralism cannot.. Moralism is the patriotism without its dangers

[@dan_HK]

You should be patriotic.

[@primeminister1040]

Nope

[@AD-jt7bd]

His arguments were too scattered he should prepare better next time

[@faheemsyed690]

My loyalty is to Allah and shariah low. Same time I served NHS of Britain not because I was patriot.

[@MyDavidlynch]

Faheem Syed yes sharia is very low well said

[@NUDZZZ]

@@MyDavidlynch you should realize that he is multilingual. Peace be with you :))

[@spo0ny2k]

I like my sky wizard to

[@YamnayaSintash]

Preserve your race.

[@HegaAngayomi]

You mean patriotism or nationalism?

[@hypno_ibram]

Lot of salty individuals in the comments.

[@MyDavidlynch]

ibraM ISlam deserves salt it’s a salty ancient backward cult ...

[@hypno_ibram]

@@MyDavidlynch well you're wrong. Something has to be 1400-1500 years old to be ancient so Islam isn't ancient.

[@TwisterMw]

So if your a Muslim your a citizen of the world you wouldn’t hate a certain region like the west or adopt any politics such as capitalism, communism or sharia law right

[@hamzazulfi]

@Twister You are conflating national pride with political ideologies, economics, and religions.

[@purritan326]

Is this the Abdullah that is now questioning his faith after debating Christian Prince. ?

[@fres4xd3hhhf5]

Is there a link for that

[@purritan326]

​@@fres4xd3hhhf5 It was last night , but he was on the night before also , just go on youtube and look for christian prince , then check last 2 day videos.

[@favourmicheal9501]

You practice what you preach. You don't say humans are equal but in your heart you believe that as a Muslim you are some how better than the others... And you love your faith Soo much that you can kill for it, I don't understand the hypocrisy...

[@Real_Gigachaddi]

Islamism is multiracial multi ethnic multi cultural.. and it is much better than all other isms especially patriotism/ ethnic nationalism.. Because Islamism gives others a opportunity to "be in the gang" by just accepting islam while others don't have that opportunity.. and for most people "their birth was a mistake".. So Islamism is more humane with freedom of choice 😇

[@telfordguy34uk]

Vile individual .

[@user-bt3vt9xk3o]

كم مسلم معانا 👍👍☝ How many muslims here with us 👍👍☝ And who want to be muslim ☝👆👆

[@dmmoctober]

He uses the word, “we” but he’s never truly felt like he’s “one of us” which is sad. Very sad. Without wanting to generalise or stereotype, I’m going to share an anecdote regarding my Muslim friends; none of them are patriotic and several have questioned the “existence” of Britishness. Is this something embedded in Islamic ideology? (Genuine question.). And for what it’s worth I AM patriotic; very patriotic and proud of our language, our literature, our values, yet I’m also fairly left leaning ....

[@mvmed12]

Sorry to say but you didnt understand his point. Im from spain and english isnt my first languague but i managed to understand what he was saying. When he use the term "we" because legally and moraly he is british but that doesnt mean he is patriotic. And it has nothing to do with a religion, and i dont know why you associate language and culture with patriotism. I am spanish and moroccan and proud of both languages and cultures but i am not patriotic, i dont think a line in a map must separate people

[@mhd9166]

can you agree that patriotism can be instrumentalized by political leaders for their interest to sacrifice the lives of endoctrined patriot for the interest of a powerful few people ?

[@anj7108]

i love this

[@Co11ider]

A bigot speaking against patriotism*. *rolls eye* *Patriotism is good when its Sharia and Caliphate. Otherwise bad, very very baaaaad.

[@almuwahhid6561]

Sharia is against patriotism

[@ClearlyCrackHead]

He's is Muslim but..... Patriotism is a sign of faith in Islam! 1:-In Islam the person who dies in defense of his land or wealth(which is a result of exploiting the land) is considered a martyr. 2:-Quran has clearly depicted the human connection to his nation as a covenant between Allah & the people that they should not horrify or attack or violate the security of inhabitants or expel them from their land 3:-Do not shed each other’s blood or evict one another from your homes’---. Islam has also commanded that those people living together in same nation should have good relations regardless of their different beliefs & it is proven from the Prophet Muhammad (saws) biography that he maintained good relations with the Jews living in Madinah.

[@realpamirkhan]

Morality is a sign of faith in Islam not patriotism... don’t mix the two.

[@tomhermens7698]

Sharia law should and must be disallowed in the UK. We have English law and not some Muslim derivative!!!!

[@opie317]

For sure shariah law wont happen in white man country, and plus, you need to know that shariah law just apply onto muslim not non muslim. Non muslim can stick to their law as their like..

[@almuwahhid6561]

You like to worship and be slave to your Politician who make law for you ,you are idiot. Islam says to Worship only Allah

[@almuwahhid6561]

@@opie317 islam is also for white man and many white man loves shariah

[@adamsami8229]

Allah Bhalla, Inshallah we reach Valhalla.. Ameeen

[@Eizy_Art]

Adam Sami What Valhalla mean?

[@saleem2724]

@@Eizy_Art ignore him, he's mocking Islām.

[@Bilal_Ahmed171]

...

[@krileayn]

A Muslim telling you that patriotism is wrong. The irony

[@st3ppenwolf]

You shouldn't be patriotic, not religious, nor follower of any movement that, alas, history has shown always ends up in ideology and muddles clarity of thought and reason

[@YJ-7]

r/cursed comments

[@saynotosuffering]

Next- why you should not be proud od being religious fanatic.

[@Notreallyhereanymore]

The only thing is religion can be chosen, race and ethnicity cannot

[@publicminx]

that muslim does not know what he is talking about. he does not recognize that in the end it is about group identity. islam is also nothing else a group identity with ex- and inclusion and, if you compare it in the world, much more violent and intolerant. the Cairo Declaration on Human pseudo Rights in Islam is pure apartheid to other ones. there is no single islam country out there which can be called human friendly or tolerant. the most tolerant countries in the world have some patriotism which does not hurt anyone and has at least a real location/history - what muslim believe in is pure fantasy - and already based on a racist, pro slavery, anti queer, anti female rights, anti other religions/beliefs, intolerant apartheid book (quoran) - an archaic ideology ...

[@uchihacarbonate9530]

Mike Wang oh yeaaaah we are gonna pe so ptriotic group identity Yeaaaa!!! lets bomb any one whos tands against us!!! yeaaa woohooo lets showw off how much weapons we have... guns! shotguns ! "Muurica!!!.... this is ur patriotism ! that leads to nothing more than chaos.... the deaths of Hirsohima and Nagasaki! hows that intolerance and violence for you! dont give me that war bull shit!

[@skewCZ]

+Mike Wang I would actually agree with a lot of or at least some of what he said. But I have also heard him during some show about Islam and homosexuality and am aware that he is rather conservative, at least by secular standards. I personally think that patriotism as such is in a way toxic, but at the same time, I can't help but feel that if you want to have a population engaged in democratic process, in government... it seems to me like it's the patriotic countries where this happens or happened (then again... Russia I think is also quite patriotic and... eh well.... obviously if patriotism is of relevance, it's not a guarantee).

[@voulafisentzidis8830]

I'm sorry but he's a poor speaker who attempts to be humorous in getting his message through. Maybe he was nervous....

[@alonsolekue]

He does not even believe his words. He carries the Andalusian in his name, in my opinion he carries it to highlight his origin and recall his Islamic arcade in the Iberian Peninsula. Exactly the same one that criticizes patriotic sentiment. I think his message is clear, he does not believe in the current nation states, he only believes in the union of believers, in the ummah. He is trying to sow doubt in Western societies based on theocratic beliefs disguised as moral values. I am not a very patriotic person but I don't know what is contradictory to being a patriotic person with having moral values. Many people have died in the past to bring freedom and democracy to our societies, they have died fighting for a more just society ... they were patriots. Mr Al Andalusi bears the name of a society or a group of kingdoms where the regime was theocratic, where there was slavery, where Muslims were superior to non-Muslims, where raids were constant ... history is a thing of the past but Mr Andalusí bears that name by his own choice and he wears it with pride. In my opinion he is an Islamic fascist.

[@Someone-ct2ck]

andalusia has enlightened the west.

[@alonsolekue]

@@Someone-ct2ck you mean Andalucía or Al andalus?

[@jjhearn]

He seems to be showing a bit of a persecution complex or just keeps making random sharia jokes...

[@FahimAhmed-xj9lq]

Nah, I think he's just prone to making lots of these jokes for the sake of humor. A lot of us do that frequently to show people that we aren't skittish or uptight about our culture, contrary to widespread belief.

[@Kevo216666]

'[ISIS] are no different to Western armies, Western covert-backed groups and even some of the ‘founding fathers’ of Western nations - therefore they certainly have no basis to judge. - Abdullah Al Andalusi