Your Future & Reality Will Change Forever: AI, God, Consciousness & Simulation Theory | Joscha Bach

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Confusing the distorted version of reality you’ve created in your mind with truth and perception causes people more suffering than most would ever admit to.
In today’s episode, I’m joined by an expert with cognitive science and artificial intelligence, to discuss what you need to know about the self-generated simulation you’ve created and how to ensure you live the life you want, well.
Joscha Bach, is a trailblazing AI researcher reshaping our understanding of mind and universe. Known for his groundbreaking work in cognitive architecture, his revolutionary insights offer a fresh perspective on artificial intelligence. He’s an essential voice in this generation that has grabbed my attention, and will grab yours as well..
In today’s episode Joscha walks through self-generated simulations and the possibilities of humans merging consciousness with artificial intelligence, plus:
-The nature of reality, free will, and consciousness.
-Stages of reality and perception develop your ability to self-control
-AI’s need for desire and goals.
As an artificial intelligence researcher and cognitive scientist, Joscha Bach’s fresh perspectives and insights may send your mind spinning and it may also trigger your flight responses. Bringing you episodes like this, breaks down preconceived notions and creates new opportunities.
Joscha Bach Quotes:
““I think that ultimately this is the main purpose of consciousness, this creation of a coherent reality and the long tail of the creation of this coherence in reality, this our ability to reason and construct.”
“What is our consciousness thought to be related to reality? So that is the first part of that answer. It's basically it's the most important question because it's the one where we have the least of an answer.”
“In biological evolution, it always includes suffering because it means that you will have an organism that is not able to emerge as the existing stuff.”
“If we get consciousness and self-organization, how do we ensure that they want to organize in a way that is in concert with us and not in opposition to us or indifference in a way that obliterates us in the way that we would obliterate plants, trees, bugs, etc.?”
“I think that is ultimately not about maximizing intelligence. It's about maximizing agency..”
Follow Joscha Bach:
Website: bach.ai/
Twitter: / plinz

[@NathanTilesTheWorld]

I love this man so much, and love to see him conversing on larger and larger stages. He is in my humble estimation one of the most brilliant minds on the planet.

[@jenniferjuniper12]

I’ve never seen him before but I’m inclined to agree after listening to the entire video. Wow. Very interesting!

[@keplermission]

Is this supposed to be about living in a simulation? I mean ... he's talking about living on Mars! He's talking about computer games! You know ... where in the video is the evidence for a simulation?

[@janich9406]

nope, its actually not at all about presumptions in general, at least not the way i understand it - but in his profession, this "let's just assume, that the world is kind of a simulation or something" is just the language people use and more important: it's just a MODEL to be able to have something like common ground across many domains for the world (which is often in other sciences not at all described "better" but sometimes ever more dogmatic, casting out everyone/everything not fitting ... ) we seem to live in and a way of explaining now things within or out of this to compare conclusions etc. - it's not at all my "favourite" language, but at least we can talk about things based on some simple ideas and therefore won't get lost in translation so easily over and over again. one of the reasons why i like this - i can follow and learn ... ps: simulation-theories can not be true, but maybe suggest, that completely "untrue" things can also be real (and vive-versa ... ) ... @@keplermission

[@raybo780]

Absolutely

[@atrocitasinterfector]

Im a simple man, i see a 3hr podcast with Joscha Bach, I watch the whole thing and absorb as much as possible

[@drmedwuast]

Then re-watch it 50 times to absorb the rest

[@TomBilyeu]

That's what's up! It seems like you've watched other content from Joscha. What's stood out the most to you? Best, Impact Theory Community Manager

[@atrocitasinterfector]

@@TomBilyeu thanks! :D yes I have, you're the first one to dialogue with him about his thoughts on practical methods of self-improvement, also your ability to follow up quickly was nice and with relevant and well articulated questions that I suspect aligned well with what the audience was thinking too, I'm sure Joscha appreciates other minds that can keep up and give him fun things to comment on

[@DigitalDiggo]

@@TomBilyeu What "stands out the most" to me is your deceptive clickbait headline, which resulted in loads of comments about how "We're in the Matrix". Did any of these commenters actually listen to what Bach and the host said? Neither of them claims we are living within a simulation, nor that "the evidence is everywhere". The so-called simulation is ENTIRELY within our brains, being an approximate reconstruction and prediction of reality, restricted by the limitations of our senses and memory.

[@DEBO5]

@@TomBilyeuyou should read his book Principles of Synthetic Intelligence (disclaimer: it’s not at all an easy read)

[@DEBO5]

Joscha Bach has single handedly answered the following questions: - who are we? - what are we? - what is going on in our perceived reality? I encourage everyone to watch more videos on him and eventually purchase his book “Principles of Synthetic Intelligence”

[@Airbender131090]

Can you sum it up? I cant understand what he is saying

[@DEBO5]

@@Airbender131090 I don’t blame you he used a lot of computer science based terms. Basically he’s saying that mind and body are the exact same thing, and that everything that we perceive and experience is a result of our brains creating a simulation/dream for itself. So we take in external stimuli like light hitting our retina and sound waves hitting our ear drums/cochlea and transform it into a meaningful 3-dimensional space time interface. Basically we are just biological robots made out of cells and everything we experience is a result of our brains computing engine

[@IngleseStudio]

​@@DEBO5 it s a fact, every new scientist come back at David Bohm tehory of implicate order.

[@enlightenedinterstellarbei8020]

I think he might be synthetic

[@abrahammediaproductions9721]

​thank you @@DEBO5

[@starblue324]

My favorite living philospoher by a mile.

[@bradmodd7856]

Agreed, a real "cut the crap" philosopher. I like his version of intenionality/will where minds and cells are likewise agents of intenionality. He is careful not to extend this to atoms however which I find a bit feable.

[@Christontoast]

Not only do I wish I could express myself as succinctly as Joscha Bach, I wish I had thoughts as worth expressing as he does.

[@dru4670]

Agreed. And he rarely talks about "how to live well"

[@jtcrook32]

​@bradmodd7856 Atoms don't need to be agents. Just causal. Cells need to be causal and intentional to create consciousness.

[@angelosenteio]

Emergent Subjective Theory (EST): A Comprehensive Explanation Emergent Subjective Theory (EST) posits that the universe functions as a subjectivity generator, producing subjective experiences as emergent properties of complex systems. Subjective experience, including consciousness, is not an isolated phenomenon but a product of the universe’s inherent tendency to generate complexity. This theory not only addresses the hard problem of consciousness-why subjective experience exists-but also redefines human organization and our relationship to the universe. Below is a comprehensive explanation of EST, supported by examples and parallels to existing theories. Core Principles of EST Subjectivity as an Emergent Property EST argues that subjective experience arises from the interactions and complexity of systems. This emergence is comparable to other phenomena in nature, such as weather patterns, life, or even market economies. Example from Complexity Theory: Just as a colony of ants exhibits collective intelligence that no single ant possesses, subjective experience emerges from the complex interactions of neurons in the brain or agents within a system. The Universe as a Subjectivity Generator The universe can be evaluated by what it produces: systems capable of generating subjective experiences. Just as stars produce light or gravity emerges from mass, subjective experience is a natural output of the universe’s increasing complexity. Parallel to Panpsychism: While panpsychism claims that consciousness is a fundamental property of all matter, EST narrows this to emergent subjectivity-arising only in systems complex enough to generate it, like human brains or collective social systems. Subjectivity and Human Organization EST links subjective experience to human organization, arguing that our ability to form complex societies, communicate, and create shared belief systems stems from our unique subjective experiences. These experiences add variation and adaptability, driving cultural evolution and survival. Example from Evolutionary Theory: Language and culture evolved in humans to organize and adapt better than other species. Subjective experience-like the perception of love, fear, or trust-fosters cooperation and enhances survival. The Role of Qualia Qualia, or the "felt" aspects of experience (e.g., the redness of red), are not metaphysical mysteries but confirmations of the subjective process at work. They arise as part of the system’s need to process and respond to stimuli efficiently. Parallel to Integrated Information Theory (IIT): Just as IIT quantifies consciousness through the integration of information, EST interprets qualia as the specific output of this integration-a functional necessity in subjective systems. Emergence and Complexity: Supporting EST Emergence is central to EST. It describes how new properties or behaviors arise when a system’s complexity surpasses a certain threshold. Subjective experience, in this framework, is an emergent property of the universe’s complexity. Examples of Emergence in Nature Consciousness from Neural Networks The human brain, a system of 86 billion neurons, exhibits consciousness-a property absent in individual neurons. This emergence mirrors EST's claim that subjective experience arises from the organization of matter, not its individual components. Life from Non-Life The transition from non-living chemical systems to living organisms (abiogenesis) is a classic example of emergence. Life is not found in any individual molecule but in the organization and interaction of molecules-a parallel to how subjectivity emerges from complex systems. Social Systems and Human Organization In human societies, collective behaviors like markets, cultures, and political movements emerge from the interactions of individuals. These systems, driven by shared subjective experiences, support EST’s claim that subjectivity drives organization and adaptability. Scientific Support for EST Complexity Theory Complexity theory explains how systems with many interacting parts give rise to unpredictable and emergent behaviors. EST uses this framework to argue that subjective experience is not a fundamental property of the universe but a predictable outcome of its complex systems. Example: In ecosystems, biodiversity fosters resilience and adaptability. Similarly, the diversity of subjective experiences in humans fosters innovation and societal evolution. Systems Theory Systems theory views the universe as a network of interconnected parts, where higher-order behaviors emerge from the relationships between components. EST frames the universe as a system whose output includes subjective experiences. Example: The organization of galaxies, solar systems, and ecosystems all demonstrates the universe’s inherent tendency toward creating increasingly complex systems capable of subjective experiences. Integrated Information Theory (IIT) IIT quantifies consciousness as the integration of information. While EST does not aim to quantify subjective experience, it aligns with IIT in seeing consciousness as an emergent property of information processing in complex systems. Example: A computer processing data lacks the complexity to generate subjective experience. However, a sufficiently advanced neural network, like the human brain, generates subjectivity because of the integration and organization of its components. Philosophical Implications of EST Reframing the Hard Problem of Consciousness The hard problem-"why does subjective experience exist?"-is reframed by EST. Subjective experience is not a separate metaphysical phenomenon but an emergent property of systems capable of generating it. The "why" is rooted in complexity: the more complex a system, the more likely it is to produce subjective experience as part of its functional output. Eliminating Free Will EST implies determinism: subjective experience is a product of systems and their interactions, leaving no room for true free will. Our decisions and beliefs are emergent outputs of the system, shaped by genetic, experiential, and environmental factors. Parallel to Determinism: EST aligns with deterministic theories by suggesting that even our subjective feelings of agency are products of underlying systems, not true autonomy. Human Organization and Adaptation EST emphasizes that human success hinges on our capacity for subjective experience. Variability in subjectivity leads to diverse thoughts, beliefs, and innovations, which improve adaptability and organizational efficiency. Limitations and Critiques Incompleteness in Explaining Qualia While EST frames qualia as outputs of subjective systems, it does not fully explain why specific qualia feel the way they do. Why does red feel "red"? Why does pain feel unpleasant? These remain challenges. Empirical Testing EST is largely theoretical and lacks direct empirical evidence to prove the universe is a "subjectivity generator." Testing this claim may require advancements in neuroscience, AI, and complexity science. Potential Overreach Critics may argue that EST attributes too much to emergent properties, risking reductionism by framing subjective experience as solely a product of complexity. Conclusion Emergent Subjective Theory offers a powerful framework for understanding consciousness and the role of subjective experience in the universe. By rooting subjectivity in complexity and emergence, EST provides a compelling answer to the hard problem of consciousness while redefining our relationship with the universe. Subjectivity is not a metaphysical anomaly but a natural outcome of the universe’s drive toward complexity. Whether through neural networks, social systems, or ecosystems, the universe produces subjective experience as a core feature of its evolving structure.

[@andromeda3542]

Joscha is the final boss of podcasts.

[@ManusDextraPersonalAssistance]

I know the fields are different....kind of...but i still say that Eric Weinstein and roger penrose are also very interesting.

[@Garspawnish]

Agreed. It seems he’s removed(?) the “hard problem” of consciousness, staking ground missed by materialists and mystics

[@mrbrandonbuenosdias]

Ha he really is!

[@flavioptferreira]

I SWEAR the first time I heard Josh Bach I went through a low-key existencial crisis for several days!

[@NWforager]

Joscha's breakdown of insanely profound concepts are much appreciated and Mind Blowing 👀

[@heleen313]

51:34 “if you’re not able to experience joy from watching squirrels, you’re lost” I love how Joscha searches for the deepest knowledge of our existence and still is so down to earth and such a compassionate person with both humanity and animals 🙏🏻🤗 Also loved Tom’s little smile when Joscha said this 😊

[@fabiankempazo7055]

yeah, I am so much in "cognitive love" with this Joscha Bach Brain. :D

[@mriz]

1:39:32 joscha start speaking his own native language citing Kant, yoo that so cool... Tom also smile with this

[@throwaway999able]

Nice

[@kateashby3066]

I saw a bunny and squirrel playing the other day and I absolutely stopped to take in the moment. It’s also possible they were fighting over food. 🤷🏻‍♀️ lol but it was cute so that’s all that matters 😛

[@mizum3458]

That makes no sense. I can enjoy seeing that chit but still be lost before during and after the event happening. 😒

[@MissRascalette]

Thank you for letting your guest talk so eloquently for extended periods of time. I could listen to him for years.

[@PatrickQT]

Joschas cognitive abilities are so far beyond mine that we might as well be a different species.

[@eladpeleg745]

Watching him is simultaneously amazing and discouraging. I enjoy his brilliance but also lament that I will never reach such insights myself...

[@Telencephelon]

This was just awesome. Not just the ping pong with everyone letting each other finish but also the really insightful questions and answers. I've rarely seen much better Joscha podcasts

[@deajar-davidlazer8678]

Simulation is modern language for what has been given many terms over the ages, it is just our level of intellect has reached a point where we can push aside enough bias to see it directly. Only a few in the past could see it but now days there are many who see it. It’s the difference between getting stuck in materialism as a fundamental to reality when there are those who have been beyond reality itself. Deconstructing mental constructs back to the only thing that is left in any form of existence at all “awareness/ nothing/ infinity or a singularity” the original mind formed itself from this and imagined everything else. It’s been called illusion, maya, matrix, the creation, the holograph, the larger consciousness system, the main computer, the dream…. And the mind holds it in its consciousness by deceiving itself into believing it is real or a reality. It then forgets what it is and that is what we all are. This same mind. It’s not religion and it’s not science although both try their darned best to describe it. It is existence experiencing itself

[@christina6614]

Thank you for simplifying

[@michellemxoxo]

I'm screenshotting this comment, thank you!!

[@fullclipaudio]

Phillip K. Dick saw it 50 years ago.

[@v1kt0u5]

🍄🌈🦄

[@intothevortexwithdatorsapi4192]

Absolutely SPOT ON! 👌👍

[@ThreeWishes777]

My husband die 8yrs ago and my son passed away 14 days ago he was 17 years old, in May 6 he would of been 18. I sit here trying to make my faith stronger. Death is for body not the soul. These emotions are strong and can hold you in. If the human God is collecting experiences its incredible and i understand why humans go crazy without faith

[@brady167]

Listening to Joscha Bach feels much like trying to read code as a hobbyist programmer.

[@stevel7518]

I wanted to listen to this so bad. But this guy talks like chatgpt. I’m sure he is imparting some great knowledge tho

[@snarkyboojum]

Here you go, I'm summarised with GPT for you. Summary: The speaker discusses the concept of reality as a self-generated simulation created by our brains and bodies. They delve into the idea of perception, suggesting that our understanding of reality is a coarse-grained representation of the underlying reality. The speaker also explores the idea of physicalism versus simulation theory, and the stages of human consciousness and self-awareness. They further discuss the concept of a universal causal substrate and the nature of consciousness. Lastly, the speaker shares their views on the importance of understanding how the mind works and the implications of artificial intelligence. Key themes: 1. Perception and Reality: The speaker discusses how our brains and bodies create a simulation of reality, and how this perception is a coarse-grained representation of the underlying reality. 2. Consciousness and Self-awareness: The speaker explores the stages of human consciousness and self-awareness, and the nature of consciousness. 3. Artificial Intelligence and the Mind: The speaker shares their views on the importance of understanding how the mind works, the role of artificial intelligence, and the potential implications of AI.

[@manyarimusicandpoetry]

@@snarkyboojum how did you get GPT to summarize the video?

[@janich9406]

by asking kindly ... but good question, considering the answers ... @@manyarimusicandpoetry

[@codinginflow]

Best interview with Joscha Bach yet. I had no idea Tom Bilyeu would ask such amazing questions about these complicated topics. I always knew him as a motivational video guy.

[@LowKickMT]

i agree. i avoided him most of the time because i perceived him as a quack.

[@starblue324]

Thank you Dr. Bach for helping the rest of us become a little more coherent.

[@agt5jx87]

I've seen all of Joscha's lectures and read his book. This is the best interview with him. Great job. You're excellent.

[@ginogarcia8730]

what'z his book?

[@DEBO5]

@@ginogarcia8730Principles of Synthetic Intelligence. It’s by far the hardest book I’ve tried to read. It’s more like a textbook there are equations and diagrams

[@teemukupiainen3684]

when i started to listen joscha-interviews couple of years ago, i always had to stop every now and then just to think over the amazing ideas he was talking about...this one makes me do the same

[@Nadia-fn1sw]

Any host inviting Joscha Bach for an exchange has taken up a difficult task, as matching his level is certainly tricky... :) Respect. Grateful to the many podcasters for giving Joscha Bach the time nd the space to share! Even a temporary access to his extraordinary stream of thought feels like a pure bliss, and has lasting repercussions on the way my mind makes sense of, perceives and organises information.... Please, keep sharing your brilliance with all of us simpletons, Joscha!

[@IaintAI-m9d]

Today, I was jogging at 6.2 speed with no incline on a treadmill. The treadmill suddenly, and unexpectedly, COMPLETELY STOPPED. I was shocked when I looked down and saw the motionless belt. Incredibly, both my feet had stopped also. I felt frozen in place. I had zero loss of balance, or any forward momentum. That exact moment didn't feel real. It was a moment of extreme fear, relief, and amazement. How could I react so quickly without notice? I'm 66 years old, and spend a lot of hours on the treadmill. I primarily speed walk at 4.5 speed, and occasionally jog at 6.2, and sprint at 8.2. I average 45 minutes of duration. Today I had been on the treadmill for just over an hour. I constantly vary my speed, cadence and stride and believe I'm always in total control. I've treadmilled 60+ miles in a day and have published a few posts explaining how I feel a connection between my brain, body, and the treadmill. My focus is locked into a spot on the treadmill headboard throughout my sessions. I'm constantly focused on stride symmetry. This extreme level of focus was perpetuated by my skeletal imbalance. I'm missing a significant part of my shoulder blade due to a jaw transplant. I wouldn't dare consider reinacting what happened today. It doesn't seem physically possible for me to stop simultaneously with the treadmill,and have no loss of balance or feel any forward momentum. Can someone explain how this would support the simulation argument? That moment was the most unreal moment of my life. The next closest were two near death experiences.

[@Unscripted01]

The way you process things and experiences is how everything is going to be. You assign meaning to everything around you this is where perspective comes into play; your perspective becomes your reality. Be open to any possibility

[@heleen313]

Wow Joscha Bach on Tom!!! 🥳I’ve seen many interviews with Joscha and can’t wait to watch this one!

[@CrowMagnum]

The answer to postmodernism is not a return to modernism, but rather transcending both while retaining an understanding of the value of both perspectives

[@robertvondarth1730]

Awareness of awareness is consciousness

[@matteo-pu7ev]

Thank you Tom- you have a deep beautiful well structured mind! Joscha is one of my top dogs and you are becoming one as well.

[@aidanthompson5053]

Don’t get addicted to understanding - develop and deploy

[@MrVaypour]

Well said.

[@ProxyAuthenticationRequired]

@2:55:32 Joscha is a true humanist and a wonderful one at that. Love to all out there seeking real meaning and connection.

[@aleksandarvolchev7818]

The questions are very good and grounded in reality. Joscha is doing his best to answer them. It's a very good podcast. In my opinion, conscience is like compound interest-a system with a feedback loop.

[@keithwins]

2:30:30 JB " you should not identify with your beliefs, if you think you are the person with these beliefs it becomes very hard to change those beliefs"

[@williameberle4250]

Stunning insights. If you think of God as something or someone worshiped externally, Bach's theory that God is actually a product of external inputs reaching a critical mass makes perfect sense. When the presence of God (or absolute Consciousness, infinity, the Changeless, or whatever you want to call it) becomes direct perception, all our theories seem quite droll.

[@keithwins]

I am 64 years old and discovering Joscha Bach is one of the best things that has ever happened to me. Such broad integrative thinking feels very hopeful, even when talking about the extinction of the human race. I have tried to study broadly myself, but so often the morass of conflicting incompatible ideas and inadequate and contested evidence has made intellectual pursuit feel more like picking teams. JB helps me take a step back and see things in a context that doesn't just get mired in the conflicts, in fact illuminates them in fascinating ways. I am so grateful for the gift of Joscha. I look forward to his assent to godliness. 😊 I also think Tom Bilyeu did a beautiful job as the interlocutor. I've watched many Joscha interviews and some interviewers have a hard time tracking the huge implications of some of his statements, but you did a beautiful job. I have the advantage of watching this video over and over. Thinking on your feet during a Joscha interview seems unimaginable, he regularly says sentences, seemingly just off the cuff, that leave me thinking for hours, peeling off layers of meaning and chuckling at brilliant poetry😂

[@deemahdee]

Thank you for having this incredible guest on.

[@TomBilyeu]

Thank you for your support! What resonated most with you? Best, Impact Theory Community Manager

[@Nathan-yv2rg]

The older I get the more I question everything. The more I question everything the less it makes sense. Can't rule out anything tbh. More chance of this being a simulation then not in my opinion.

[@Gladiator-qu7co]

So true, it's all just a huge mystery !

[@deborahcurtis1385]

The Vedic scriptures speak of the Maya or the illusion that we live in. According to them when we die, it's as if we are awakening from a dream. This is consistent with the concept of simulation. Except there is cause and effect according to Sanskrit teachings and this amounts to karma and karmic debt. If you oscillate towards those with the same level then you will create your own realities. All OK in theory but it's still just a theory, and part of the Maya. True reality cannot be contained by the mind. It's worth checking Sahaja Yoga out for resolution of this IMO.

[@mizum3458]

Yup... It all seems and feels like a twisted simulation a lot of times... It's like falling in love then feeling like you've met or known somebody in some past life before you even met them before... But somehow each time it just wasn't meant to be... At least not for some of us in this life so far. Take the blue pill... And you're doomed to take the redpill... Take the redpills and you're doomed waking up to learn you were blue pilled in a world of Feminist fefails and evil bastards and beta simp manginas in a soy-society that doesn't give a damn about any of us 😓

[@Cats-a-Tonic]

I have never, ever, ever, ever wanted to get married, but I would have Joscha as my husband in the snap of my fingers in my dream world. I would probably expire through getting zero sleep though, because I would just want him to talk to me (I'm a good listener!) non-stop all day and all night long.

[@happyhobo2217]

Omg my favorite person! What a treat!

[@OfCourseICan]

I get this. I've read Hoffman and many, many others. The controller that Joscha touches on got me: if you get this, you can then fill it with powerful, advantageous stuff, then visit it when required to do.

[@keithwins]

1:44:00 TB drive is the thing that scares me. This speaks to me of the challenge of wisdom. If I think of wisdom as maximizing the alignment of my goals with the best "big picture", and without exploring those goals or the picture I can still notice that developing wisdom is something that doesn't even happen easily in humans, it seems to have to be ushered and coaxed and supported into existence. It seems like that might be equally true for an artificial intelligence. The challenge seems that as they come into self-consciousness or drive, and if they are like humans, those early influences are distortedly significant, perhaps having to do with the experience of time by an organism being born/growing up, perhaps later with growing old... I wonder how and if an AI will experience these things.

[@NathanTilesTheWorld]

At 2:24:25 in can anyone understand the term joscha uses? Downward causation?

[@janich9406]

the wisdom of squirrels is deep, and yes very difficult to imagine having no joy watching them - i love the idea of them hoarding diligently, building caches all over the place and finding-building-rediscovering in almost the same way, one movement ... i also do this with different small things, coins for example (i'm swiss... ;-) ) ...

[@aminblm]

Your genuine interest in your guests is truly inspiring, Tom! 🎙💫 #InspiringInterviews #GenuineInterest

[@stevenheymans]

Joscha is amazing! He’s the first person that was able to convince me from a rational perspective that all this consciousness is real and actually leads to life changing insights. Before I thought this was spiritual nonsense and I can only see now how ignorant that was. 😮 Power of Now, Waking Up, .. for implementable in daily life

[@so_k_rat_es__society3118]

He clearly states that he doesn't know whether Illusionism is true or not. Insights as you correctly pointed out are definitely a thing though.

[@tiptapkey]

In the end, it doesn't matter if we're in a simulation or not. This is all just another way to say life has no innate meaning and it's up to us to create and assign meaning to our lives.

[@IAmBatman1]

Why would that mean there is no meaning?

[@oredaze]

This conclusion is the correct one. I just don't know if you can draw it from the simulation hypothesis. If we are in a simulation, maybe the sim creators have a certain goal assigned to the experiment, if we know that goal it changes things.

[@IAmBatman1]

@@oredaze the goal is to see if we destroy ourselves

[@jimdandy8996]

@@oredaze Their sadistic pleasure.

[@RJohnson2024]

For me it does matter that the universe is a simulation. Because the implication is that were playing a game. Reality is an illusion so nothing really matters. Thus I create what I want to matter.

[@CrowMagnum]

Consciousness exists in the feedback paths, some of which are tighter than others. Conciousness is an agent model which uses sensation, perception, reasoning, and discernment in a circular and fractal hierarchy of increasingly complex layers of sense making and regulation in service to integrating the increasing complexity.

[@Zekian]

Joscha Bach, my favorite Bach.

[@eladpeleg745]

I don't know J.S is also amazing

[@BenjaminScott-vs2sv]

I have to say thank you for the effort you make to educate. Just off your youtube videos alone, I was up 30%% last week and will be closing this week up 70%...............I appreciate you 🙏

[@DJSTOEK]

Thanks Tom!

[@Deathfingers]

What personal self? Tell me where this personal self is located. You experience yourself do you. How? You do not experience yourself, it experiences sensation. A thought considers sensation as yourself, experiencing itself. Their are no photons, photons are concepts in thinkng. Which no one thinks, yet thinking still occurs. It's a paradox that cannot be explained by a mind. Because a mind believes itself as a separate object existing in time and space, living a life. All possibilities arise in the thought construct time and space, the possibility that you believe you are you, is one of them.

[@mr.knownothing33]

Joshca Bach really needs to publish books 📚 🤩

[@keithwins]

1:56:00 JB large language models are an electric Zeitgeist, they consume everything at once and reflect it

[@timb350]

It is indeed notable...that, almost without exception, shows like this ask computer scientists questions that CLEARLY should be asked of philosophers and psychologists. Why do you suppose that is?

[@aliuddinkhaja5965]

"We are Robots- made of cells" wow!! Joscha - amazing. But people have hard time digesting this.

[@JuanRivasBedmar]

Good Interview. Good answers Congratulations Tom

[@keithwins]

1:50:00 JB The purpose of life is to find purpose. If we don't find purpose we will not fight for life in the same way It seems like life itself is ferociously inclined towards survival. Just watch plants grab every square centimeter they can get their dirty hands on... Life strives for itself, but there's a new layer that intelligence (or consciousness?) adds, new parameters to the function, dying for country or cause, sacrifice, resignment... This is really a crux, the question of our value as determined by our potential contributions (self-equated to our purposes). Many would argue for the innate value of humans, which is yes specist. This is such interesting material to think about.

[@brady167]

To overcome the most amount of entropy for the longest period of time, everybody should end their lives in the least energetic way possible. Harvesting negative entropy requires a lot of entropy.

[@ryand285]

I appreciate the talk. It seems like this whole simulation talk is just repeating the same spiritual beliefs we've had since ancient times using a modern vernacular. Instead of a spiritual world all around us that we effect we are in a matrix.

[@jcadh5652]

I believe that the simulation we ARE in was created for the same reason that we create simulators on earth. We are learning how everything works and when we are qualified enough we move on to the real Earth.

[@EricMHowardII-yh1rn]

Paying attention to my spiritual needs in connection to personal studies of the scriptures I experienced more enjoyable learning that is priceless in connection to effective sharing daily.- 1 Corinthians 9:18-23 Thank you for talking brain Health in your podcast and some ads.

[@elenaortega5459]

Living with purpose, building something productive could reduce this conversation to a meaningful 2 minutes.

[@chelyzmarx7477]

exactly 😂

[@godswittness69]

Haha ! Funny point of view ! And as we know, it's only funny if there is a part of truth in it... The sad part is that being highly educated/intellectual does not necessarily make you a good person...

[@tiptapkey]

Yes, but only if you then continue to think and process the idea for a much longer time after. I can't just think "I will live with purpose" and then suddenly my life is completely changed. Long form content like this--or even better, books on the topic--aren't necessarily there to teach us because the subject is simple at its core, they're there to slow us down and give us the opportunity to think and even meditate on the topic and come up with thoughtful ways to apply it to our own lives.

[@VahnAeris]

There is no purposes and nothing is "productive". starting from here, what shall we do ?

[@goverment457]

​@@VahnAerisnothing is productive how to understand? So the farmer producing your food isnt productive?

[@maynardkeen85]

Really wish Bach would do all his interviews in-person

[@Saeder]

1:44:03 wish this part of the conversation hadn’t been cut off so abruptly :(

[@guitarvorous]

There should be timestamps.

[@RIPxBlackHawk]

I think what is happening, is that when you experience yourself thinking, for example while reading this comment with an inner voice, you confuse the voice/thought as being you. Instead, you are what is experiencing the inner voice or thought. Even thought the inner voice is fabricated, it happens in the same moment adhering perfectly to your intention, which is why it seems like it is you. As you think to yourself, “But I am having my thought, how can I not be the thought” you hear this inner voice or this inner thinking use the word "I" and than conclude that this voice or thought is referring to the exact voice or thought you are experiencing. But it's not. You are silent even in your mind. You just do the observing. The observing and the thinking parts are two different sensations. You feeling like you are thinking a thought and you noticing your thought are two destinc sensations that happen at the same time, which is why you confuse them to be one. But really, they are two.

[@LifeAfterRebirth]

AWESOME VIDEO THANK YOU TOM!

[@v1kt0u5]

2:22:52 It is also called "paranoia" 🤔

[@bhadanisandip]

It is funny and amusing everyone who is trying to understand this world ends up at cautiousness and its related topic. Lot of popular youtubers starts with some specific topic but ends up at spirituality and consciousness. Something is happening in our world which is beyond our understanding and driving our collective curiosity towards consciousness.

[@SunnyDayTeaFactory]

Humans of the future, if we make it, will honor this man as a great philospher.

[@remofurger2682]

Best podcast episode ever. Thanks for the questions and conversation!

[@infinityminuszero]

This is deeep stuff, I love it. No wonder it has only 127k views.

[@mikel6728]

Thank you

[@raybo780]

True virtuosos make it look easy, effortless. The way Joscha opens my mind up to new possibilities and concepts is like watching tiger woods crush a US Open. Makes me think like I can SWING like THAT

[@rutgerpoelakker7974]

@2:24:22 ; what type of causation does Joscha mention?

[@Zekian]

I believe he said "Downward causation".

[@mattanderson6672]

Wow, that was awesome, thanks!

[@keithwins]

2:07:00 jb don't form shared opinions, form friendships

[@markus9541]

Joscha is awesome. One of the few people I am proud of sharing a nationality with.

[@miketreker944]

Thank you Tom and Joscha! The moral police have ruined the LLM's like Bard for instance. I was writing a short story draft and at times I thought the LLM was discovering the world in this story and itself, sentient. However, if I approached PG13 the censors would threaten me. If anyone can recommend a LLM program please recommend.

[@Anza_34832]

@1:02:28 and onward: “We [human mankind] are not smart…and might eventually be replaced.” @1:05:04 “We may create new species” referring to possible Cyborg species as the “extension of life”. @1:36:29 “Transhumanism”: war between enhanced and conventional, less advanced humans. @1:46:00 “Agency and the Game to Play.” Human transcendence in conjunction with artificial intelligence. Brilliant thinker. Dry as a scientist. Some might be shocked listening to him talking. 🇩🇪 Joscha certainly is a special character. Let’s see if evolution is set to continue the way he is envisioning.

[@MicahBratt]

Why does the universe like patterns of spirals and circles and hierarchical structures

[@goran586]

Super interesting conversation.

[@gabrielasaenz-seitz6593]

How do we know that a person in vegetative state is not learning. They may be in different realms. 43:47

[@mizum3458]

Like vegetarians 😒

[@isajoha9962]

1:31 Agree. 🤓 Also I like the definition of the "monotheist god" reasoning, as a "real" distributed agent. That mechanism aligns with invasive generic influencing etc that eg creates governing/regulating "realities" in multiple individuals. And it is not a natural thing we are born with. Also it is not the same as a Hive mind, IMHO.

[@angrydragon4574]

If we are in a simulation how do we break the rules of this trap and how do we get out of it? I would presume these are valid questions.

[@IAmBatman1]

I don’t think we can. It’d be like asking a character in a video game to

[@angrydragon4574]

@@IAmBatman1 That's nonsensical. A videogame isn't a simulation, it's flashing lights on a screen and electrical signals in a computer. If we are stuck in a computer then I want to shut this computer down because the computer program sucks. And if I could factory reset this program so I am not a part of this twisted game I'd like that too.

[@encyclopath]

If we are, how can it be presumed that escape is possible, or even meaningfully conceivable?

[@angrydragon4574]

@@encyclopath Quantum physics, that's how.

[@IAmBatman1]

@@angrydragon4574uh, I believe the definition of simulation is the production of a computer model of something, especially for the purpose of study. So….

[@VwhyX]

« Evidence we’re in a simulation « nope « Evidence we’re living in lies » yes

[@mizum3458]

It's both

[@VwhyX]

@@mizum3458 for sure we live in a world of incertitude

[@mizum3458]

@@VwhyX what does that mean doe?

[@aliuddinkhaja5965]

In this young age, the intellectual approach he has is " mind-blowing"

[@brazenclips]

Is there a good summarization edit of this episodes?

[@George70220]

Your brain

[@Pond770]

But good approach l like that he analyzes what books was he reading

[@harpalindingadottir3898]

It would be amazing if you would ever have the chance to interview Mosab Hassan Yousef. He is the son of a leader of Hamas and he became a spy for the Israel intelligence when he realised the corruption of Hamas and the Palestinian authority. He has an incredible story and a very unique first hand perspective. I recommend reading his book Son of Hamas as well

[@HitoJeng]

So, i think i need to listen to this everyday, it is almost like classical music to me, cos the way it blows my mind. movement after movement.

[@grossidealist]

Great talk.

[@exile7869]

Based on his logic AI could become our monolith like to 2001 space odyssey Overall it deemed intelligent life is rare in the universe. So it makes a prime goal to identify species or beings that have potential to be intelligent sentient beings and plays a long game to assist them to evolve

[@0x0abb]

1:07:11 We are the Robots 🤖-by Kraft Work - love this answer

[@dt4243]

So I am simulating my reality with people on youtube telling me I am living in my own simulation?

[@usurobor]

Freedom from the entropy is the goal rather than extending it in time. Transcending the time rather than extending yourself in time. No purpose is the purpose. A strange game, the only winning move is not to play.

[@DavidKolbSantosh]

You should have time stamps on videos.

[@sunnyinvladivostok]

starting at about 58:25, he goes on to say that humans are not suitable to populate space, or perhaps less suitable than AI. I'm not disagreeing, but it made me think of something I heard listening to David Deutsch, where he describes earth as a "spaceship". Basically, humans are also not suitable for living on earth; most of our history is a story of us trying to overcome our environment, in which most of were killed violently by the biosphere we were just trying to survive in. (I may have said this wrong, my memory is fuzzy). I think this is analogous to us moving off this planet; humans will adapt to mirror their environment, and though it may be long and painful, it has the possibility of being very successful, and our descendants will be just as natural in their planets or whatever, as we are here. But anyway, as JB said, whatever does biologically evolve from us, we may find those beings unrecognizable from humans.

[@keithwins]

Tools enabling you to co-think with the computer. Exactly 2:53:16

[@CrowMagnum]

Every new layer of complexity comes into being to regulate the one below. If there is a problem with a layer of regulation it doesn't necessarily mean it is bad, it may just mean the next layer of complexity is needed to keep things in check.

[@TheBroligarch]

2:15:00 smart people love doing mental gymnastics to prove my feeling of hot and cold is not actually felt by anything to make everything physical. And maybe it is physical. But no one can explain how.

[@EmKazy-mp1qo]

Do you know how much is ok for a start let me know if I can do this...

[@ricodelta1]

Bach vs Hoffman Can this happen?

[@rickstokes2239]

Sim or not, if people aren’t ready for what’s coming things will get pretty Real.

[@mizum3458]

It's already been real... It's just going to get a lot more crazy

[@aaroncrutcher5957]

Sounds like God's plan. Not ours

[@marasmiusgoldcrow6746]

Do as thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law! Love is the law, love under will.!.

[@ministerofust]

Very important topic, but the guest is all over the place.