Protein and exercise: The secrets of healthy aging?

[@lilytea3]

3:02: 💪 Exercise is important for a healthy lifestyle and can improve health span. 7:55: 💪 Exercise has positive effects on various physiological systems in the body, including cardiovascular health, lung function, and brain function. 14:34: 🏋‍♂ Protein and exercise work synergistically to recondition and improve muscle health, but the concept of an anabolic window for protein intake after exercise is not well-supported. 21:57: :muscle: Protein consumption after exercise is important for muscle growth, but the idea of an anabolic window is not supported by evidence. The body can extract the necessary nutrients from several meals over a day or two. 28:43: 💪 Consuming more protein than the recommended daily amount can increase muscle mass, but the benefits plateau at around 1.6 grams per kilogram of body weight. 35:43: 🏋‍♂ The decline in muscle mass as we age, known as sarcopenia, can be attributed to anabolic resistance to protein intake, which can be mitigated by consuming more protein within a meal. 42:59: 🏋 Physical activity is more important than protein consumption for muscle health, especially in older individuals. 55:30: 💪 Exercise is important for overall health, including reducing the risk of dementia, and having healthy muscles can support various bodily functions. 56:59: 🏋‍♀ Resistance training requires around 1.6 grams of protein per kilo, with exercise being 80% of muscle control. Recap by Tammy AI

[@fg0611]

Myth = Animal Protein is better than Plant Protein

[@deepost2604]

I’m age 81 with a knee injury. The goal is to lose weight to take stress off the knee. At the same time, I need to build an sustain muscle to support movement . It’s Both/And. This speaker helped me to refine my protein needs. No too much, and not too little. In March I needed a hand to get out of a folding chair because I couldn’t compensate with my arms. I knew I was losing muscle and strength. Winter is coming and I know I can’t afford to go sedentary!

[@slydog7131]

Listen to 10 different nutrition and exercise experts and you get 10 different opinions. Read the controlled studies and you find that the supposed best practices provide only a marginal benefit, important for top athletes but unnecessary for everyone else. Take all this with some healthy skepticism. Do what is obvious: eat a balanced diet of whole foods and engage in a variety of exercises, especially resistance exercise.

[@brucejensen3081]

The biggest benefits are from small changes that the 33% with the worst diet do. If you eat really good and eat a little better, there won't be much change. If you eat crap and eat a little better, the benefits are massive.

[@jonathanbailey1597]

​@ty Ty Really. The scientists are stupid then, huh?

[@ash9259]

that is literally what he said. and with your logic, i should be skeptical of what ur saying is obvious.

[@slydog7131]

@@ash9259 You should be skeptical of everything you read and hear. Glad that you're catching on.

[@ash9259]

@@slydog7131 this thought system is doomed to failure, skepticsm only works to a certain degree, but beyond a point skepticsm can be your downfall. it is okay to have a strong opinion about something if that something has been scientifically proven over and over and over again. 40 minutes in, nothing he has said is beyond scientific literature,

[@raithneach]

One of my favourite episodes to date. I like the level of detail you get into, and Jonathan does a great job of giving context and making sure the complex topics are clarified.

[@pete49327]

Start day with serving of oatmeal with 5 grams. Add a single slice of whole wheat toast for another 4 grams. Just one cup of lentils equals about 18 grams protein (black beans 14 grams). Throw in a one ounce serving of walnuts for 4 grams , a serving of rice for 3 grams, and just like that already 34 grams. It is so easy to get protein in quality and quantity from plant foods.

[@lynnritchie231]

I did a quick calculation the other day and mine was around 56 grams, which is about right for my (perfect) weight. I've been vegan for almost 5 years and am trying to eat mostly whole foods.

[@andrewmullen4003]

Glad to know I've finally after 58 years of abuse started doing pretty much the right things, cut out UPF, started to regularly exercise, and am losing weight nicely. thanks

[@skippy6462]

I get lots of protein from my plant based meals. If you're going to represent all people then plant based sources should be mentioned not just chicken and whey. Eating a variety is the goal. My daily dozen app minimum is 1500 calories and plenty protein without shop bought protein shakes. I'm gaining in the gym. Discovered the gym at 57... woohoo... I'm doing great. Blood pressure down, resting pulse down, muscles up, fat down, weight loss 13 kgs... brilliant. No oil, salt or sugar. Just whole food plant based.

[@GlennMarshallnz]

"Just whole food plant based." Please be careful. Without supplements you will struggle for b12, vitamin D in winter (unless living close to the equator), DHA/EPA, choline etc.

[@lynnritchie231]

​@themarshallsnz Everyone in their 50s should be taking a b12 supplement as we absorb less as we age. I'm 56 and vegan almost 5 years. A good quality multivitamin fills in any potential gaps in my diet and I take an algae based omega supplement too. I give blood and my iron is always fine. One is just as likely to be deficient on a standard omni diet as on a plant based diet. Beans and broccoli both contain choline.

[@karadevereux1049]

Very interesting re plant based protein. I am 70 years old in 2 weeks and have been plant based for over 55 years, my body is extremely well muscled, I lift a few times a week and have done so for over 20 years. If you are interested in this theory look at Nimai Delgado, plant based for all his life.

[@GlennMarshallnz]

Plant based is such an ambiguous phrase. Do you avoid all animal products in your diet? And do you consume supplements such as a plant based protein powder (heavily processed food). Personally I'm predominantly whole food plant based, with some sardines, lean grazs fed red meat and eggs, with no supplements or protein powder.

[@uma1756]

⁠@@GlennMarshallnz plant based diet means not eating any animal products (dairy, honey, meat, fish etc). Vegan is a lifestyle, ie diet and any animal derived products such as leather, feathers, wool and so on. Your diet is an omnivore diet.

[@BigHenFor]

Sorry, but one size doesn't fit all, as some vegans have found that they can't function without some animal protein because of their genetics. Until we get personalised healthcare that works with the needs of the individual, experiment and track your results on any regime. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, move on and keep experimenting.

[@spiral-m]

@@BigHenFor I've yet to see any peer-reviewed evidence for this "genetic difference" . One issue that is interpreted as e.g. underlying intolerance or genetic predisposition to being "unable" to just consume plant-based can turn out to be underlying gut disturbance caused by toxins or not enough fibre over time, stress; or not cooking enough, not soaking and sometimes just plain taste bud preferences.... Practical examples of IBD and plant-based advantages: source: "Diet in Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Results from a Multi-Center Study in 29 Countries" - Inflammatory Bowel Diseases Journal (Oxford Academic) source: "Cure Crohn's Disease With This Diet" - Forbes source: "Diet and Inflammatory Bowel Disease: A Review of Patient-Targeted Recommendations" - Frontiers in Nutrition source: "Dietary Therapy in Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Is There a Role Beyond Disease Remission?" - ScienceDirect

[@alexandarpetrov]

Ifbb pros inject to get a pro card. U can go on stage with guys who do on a wfpb only but it will not be a pleasant experience. There are plenty of people online who disclose how they achieved pro status and why others can’t talk about it. Lifting for health would probably = wfpb, lifting for subscribes = vegan natty , lifting for competition = meat based natty bra. All the best to all who enjoy lifting for whatever reason that makes them happy.

[@Ricky-bl7yz]

Thanks for sharing your expertise Prof. Wall. May I also just point out that Jonathan really deserves a huge round of applause for dumbing it down, so it is easily understandable for people like me, who doesn’t have a robust scientific background. Huge thank you to you both

[@kencarey3477]

Johnathan! Please stop interrupting the expert!

[@knutvonheim3838]

Awesome channel! This is the second episode I have listened to - the first one with a professor at Berkley (CA), and now this one. The host and guests are so good and structured. Thank you! It’s both educational, but very understandable and I can remember it and practice it :) Looking forward to joining in on more! Thank you!

[@jamesgordon8867]

I wish Zoe would look at those of us 65 and older that are healthy, good lab values & have the motivation, what are those people do, and where are the research to find out why?

[@NikoHL]

The top 5% are not looking at this.. Get real...

[@ShoppingEmail-dr1fs]

we eat meat.

[@birgip.m.1236]

​@@NikoHLTop 5% of what or who???

[@janeschade7875]

Excellent interview! Ben does a great Job informing all of us!

[@arbiter3297]

Good questions and straight clear answers by Prof. Wall. Great job in the summary as well, Jonathan!🙂

[@aedsell]

I actually learned something very useful in this video and I'm only 14 minutes in, regarding muscle health and how it metabolizes sugar. I always knew exercise "burns off" dietary sugar but his explanation was a deeper level and I understand how just better muscular fitness in general helps. thank you for having this guest. I'm obsessed with food as medicine videos and agree with others who say that there are as many diet ideas as there are people. the only sure thing I've learned about food is that whole food is best. but I don't see how anyone could disagree with his explanation of healthy muscle function.

[@Starchaser63]

As a guy in his 50's I am currently experiencing the benefits of a once weekly high intensity workout along with additional essential amino acids supplements and protein in general..my body composition and strength are greatly improved and my hair, skin and general well-being are good...been doing this for last few years and will continue for life...

[@mikekyffin3779]

What a great and timely episode. I have been struggling with muscle soreness, tightness and recovery after rib muscle injury. Looking at my own low/non diary duet and can see that my protein levels for me as newly turned 50 year old is insufficient. Thank you for clarifying key points on importance and use of protein. Another quality presentation

[@hannahmitchell87]

soy milk has equivalent protein content to milk if you're dairy intollerant/plant based

[@kst157]

Very professional and Ben was first class - so many questions answered - didn’t want it to end! Thanks for hosting and Ben for top rate knowledge and clear, yet detailed education. 👍

[@longevitycoach1573]

Is animal protein better than plant protein? The question is STUPID and the answer was even more STUPID.

[@ravenwildandfree7816]

@@longevitycoach1573 excuse me for asking a stupid question: what is stupid about the question and the answer ?

[@longevitycoach1573]

@@ravenwildandfree7816 easy, meat is the standard we use to measure nutrients quantity and quality (absorption, bioavailability etc.) so, nothing else can be superior to meat or/and its components.

[@ravenwildandfree7816]

@@longevitycoach1573 and yet my government appointed doctor recently recommended I quit eating meat and eat a plant based diet because I have very high cholesterol.

[@longevitycoach1573]

@@ravenwildandfree7816 show this vid to your doc. If you never get sick, your doc will be a very poor man.

[@carlyndolphin]

1. Resistance training 2. Cardiovascular workouts 3. Yoga 4. Avoid ultra processed foods 5. Avoid eating too much fruit 6. Use extra virgin or avocado oils 7. Eliminate sugar 8. Avoid alcohol 9. Eat organic foods 10. Avoid tap and plastic bottle water 11. Drink water from glass bottles 12. Eat grass fed organic beef 13. Eat wild caught salmon 14. Avoid sweeteners 15. Avoid sodas and smoothies 15. Remove gluten 16. Consume kefir 17. Eat sauerkraut

[@birgip.m.1236]

I missed the part about smoothies-- what's wrong with smoothies??? And when it comes to sodas, I think they mean the sugar sodas. I think plain soda (carbonated or sparkling mineral water) with no sugar is fine.

[@AnneAlready]

Sensible recommendations here for a range of protein amount needed for people wanting to maintain or build lean mass as part of a healthy aging strategy. Protecting lean mass (diet and exercise) also protects bone density and cognitive function. It's refreshing to see bad advice updated by a smarter guest on a ZOE podcast. Thank you for interviewing Ben Wall.

[@stevenharness2283]

Excellent discussion. What troubles me is the gap, nay the chasm, between this level of knowledge and understanding and the paucity of public health initiatives on the one hand and the pathetic responses of the political class when it comes to food policy. How do we bridge that gap? There is much talk of low productivity in the UK economy and the excessive pressures exerted on the NHS. How can we bring about the joined up thinking that would go a long way towards tackling these and many other issues? We owe it to future generations to fight for their right to a healthy, productive life.

[@bobadams7654]

Good to have someone talking about protein and building muscle, not just low level maintenance.

[@richardkremmen7811]

Brilliant comments from Dr. Wall and incisive questioning by Jonathan. Thanks for posting!

[@AM-wg4ii]

I listen to a lot of nutrition/health/wellness related podcasts. Zoe is by far my favorite. I am so excited when I see a new episode. I love Jonathan as the host, he has such a wonderful personality and I love his voice and the questions he asks! 5 stars to Zoe!

[@amydietz2151]

I subscribed to the Zoe nutritional program which included blood work, 2weeks with a continuous glucose monitor, tested my tolerance of carbs and fats. Turns out I don’t process carbs well but better than average fat metabolism. from a stool sample I had my gut bacteria identified. Lots of education along the process, coaches available for questions. After all this testing i received a score for every food as I tolerate it. This allows me to build my meals with the foods that are best for ME! If you have the interest and funds to do it I highly recommend.

[@lindakautzman7388]

​@@amydietz2151Thanks for sharing..did not know Zoe offered this service.

[@aurora20XX]

I love the information this podcast covers so thanks for bringing all the content to us. Some of the comments have stated how they appreciate Jonathan 'dumbing' everything down, but I am 10 mins in and wanting to shout: 'Jonathan, just let the man speak!' Perhaps a few less charifying questions? Reminds me of that student in the classroom paraphrasing the teacher for said student's benefit, while it breaks the thought train of everyone else.

[@simontemplar404]

Stanford's Professor Christopher Gardner said on this podcast a month ago that 40g a day is enough. I seriously doubt most people are short of protein unless you live on tinned spaghetti hoops and white bread. Boiled eggs, baked beans, wholemeal bread and canned sardines are great sources of inexpensive protein and other good things if you feel you are short.

[@oanairani41]

From what most doctors are saying on youtube, we need 1 gram of protein per pound, per ideal weight. So if your ideal weight is 125 ponds, we need 125 grams of protein. 40 grams sounds very low, will give that video a listen.

[@mespinei]

@@oanairani41 .36g per pound is what Professor Gardner suggests. Medicine is ever evolving, usually those spearheading the research have most accurate insights regarding recent studies. He also mentions this should be observed as an allowance, not a minimum requirement.

[@brianrowe236]

@@oanairani41 Don Layman, a nutritional scientist specialising in protein and amino acids also maintains that we should be eating 100g of protein at least. As do others. All too confusing

[@dudea3378]

@@oanairani41 1g of protein per pound is a very silly claim by gurus designed to sell you protein powder and supplements. What studies are they citing?

[@joycebrewer4150]

​@axileus9327Incomplete ( not the full range of needed amino acid), but yes, bread has some protein in it.

[@a.higginbottom]

You should bring on Dr Stacy Sims to talk about protein and exercise in women, especially since women go through menopause!! I haven't listened to the whole episode yet but the part about protein timing and exercise contradicts Sims. According to her women have a much shorter time window than men in that regard.

[@wmp3346]

Exercise is great, and is my go to drug of choice.

[@emilyhops2566]

Let the man speak! Stop interrupting!

[@VioletVal529]

I really appreciate the summary at the end--that was really helpful.

[@Joseph1NJ]

52:00 Plant v animal protein study, where might I find that please?

[@Jill-jb1jg]

Jonathan’s summaries are very good.

[@Alice-es2rs]

I would appreciate if you could put in the Podcast Subject Line the name of the guest.

[@simon22273Z]

Prof Ben Wall it's there at start text and verbal intro

[@Alice-es2rs]

@@simon22273Z Thanks for your prompt answer. Yes, I saw it, but it would be nice to have it in the subject line when receiving the notification.

[@simon22273Z]

Settings put text on and it's on screen 👌

[@mrscpc1918]

Is it me or is the sound quality poor on this episode?

[@sugarplumk2381]

Still watching but that last quick fire question should be a definite no. Also, please define “older”.

[@fruz1378]

up to 1.6 g of protein per kg of body mass ?? This sounds very different from what Christopher Gardner was saying. A debate of those 2 men might be a good thing, because those two interviews have quite contradicting points of views and that is quite confusing.

[@Draw2quit]

I refuse to get frail as I get older.

[@daveoatway6126]

Excellent interview! Ben is a great resource. At 79 I am most concerned with delaying sarcopenia (and balance!) There have been recommendations for increased protein for use old folks. Thank you for considering age as a variable. What about the timing of protein intake? I try to get high protein for breakfast and dinner, and usually skip lunch. I walk at least 1 hour per day, with many days at 3-4 hours - 3 to 8 miles. I try to maintain my Army body weight fitness routines - another life! I live at 6,000 ft in at mountainous city in Mexico (Oaxaca). I am fitter now than when I in my 50s.

[@AnneAlready]

For timing, consider watching Don Layman's recent interview on Jesse Chappus' youtube channel. Jesse is a thoroughly excellent interviewer, same as Jonathan is here, and Don has some great suggestions with a focus on healthy aging.

[@AnneAlready]

Oh...and Don Layman eats his protein at breakfast and dinner same as you! He explains why in the interview I mentioned...which was posted just a day or two ago. All the best to you.

[@lindakautzman7388]

👏 👏 👏

[@lindakautzman7388]

​@@AnneAlreadyI just watch this today..I agree Layman and interviewer was excellent

[@doddsalfa]

The window of opportunity is not valid if I have heard right.The problem with Leyman is he get paid by the meat industry

[@retrainbackpain]

Wonderful interview questions and excellent discussion! You covered most of the big topics, thank you.

[@ron9465]

As always clear and precise as well as being enjoyable and educational. Many thanks.

[@littlevoice_11]

I eish youd spoken more on the leucin threshold, collagen type 1, 2, 3. Protein in the context of illness recovery, osteoarthritis and osteoporosis. It would also be interesting to cover more about kidney function consuming high animal vs plant protein

[@littlevoice_11]

I also think people still believe you can have a Mars Bar after a workout and it "doesn't count because there's a window where you can eat anything" Every time I hear someone say this I worry about them 😢

[@greenknitter]

What people want to hear and reality is the cause of many problems in this world. Thinking a Mars bar can ever be disregarded is wishful thinking to the moon and back.

[@166mags]

As a clinical nurse specialist I always struggled with trying to get patients with wounds to eat more protein and we would end up agreeing they could drink protein drinks is there research to show this is worthwhile.

[@slydog7131]

My opinion is that natural unprocessed sources are always best, but protein supplements clearly provide extra usable protein. So yeah, tell them to mix in protein supplements with yogurt or milk and get it that way.

[@healingsgr8]

Excellent! Such great questions and thorough answers. Thank you so much.

[@anftrew3775]

Just yesterday I watched the episode where another professor told us the 0.8 grams figure is based on average requirements plus two standard deviations, ie the majority of people don't need that much. In this episode we're told the exact opposite, that we need more than the recommended amount. Who is right?

[@slydog7131]

If you are an elite bodybuilder, you need more. If you aren't, you don't.

[@GlennMarshallnz]

Per this video, as we get older our bodies don't absorb protein as well so more is needed for the same level of synthesis. E.g. a 60 year old 75kg male needs more protein than a 35 year old male if both are similarly active.

[@slydog7131]

@@GlennMarshallnz Yes, but the RDA is excessive for the average person, and the typical person eats far more than the protein RDA already. The real reason that older people become frail is mostly because of inactivity.

[@dingai]

@@slydog7131 this is incorrect. Bodybuilders consume more calories, and those calories inevitably come with extra protein. Bodybuilders do not have to think about getting extra protein. you really think you need more protein than a silverback gorilla?

[@anftrew3775]

@@slydog7131 protein without the vitamins needed to resynthesise after its been broken down into its individual amino acids is just expensive carbs. I have no doubt that at the very top end of competitive bodybuilding, additional protein matters. But most amateurs seem to think it's just about the protein. Ie more protein equals more muscle. But the science seems to suggest we can only use a few grams of protein at a time, and the rest just becomes energy. Even if you can process more, you still won't, unless you also support it with the correct proportion of vitamins, particularly vitamin C.

[@kengaskins5083]

As usual Jonathan and guest (Ben) knock it out of the park! Very interesting information showing "The Devil is in the details". Thanks for a great program.

[@stephenyoud6125]

remember what Chris Gardner said - if you're getting enough calories you're getting enough protein

[@samanthajenkins2399]

When I was an undergraduate I knew this woman who said she was not bothering to diet since we will all be 3.5 stone when we are 90.

[@slydog7131]

No doubt that's where she will be.

[@greenknitter]

American average life expectancy is 76 so 90 is a rather optimistic figure.

[@anneb5603]

My mum is 93 and always 8 stone her whole life

[@orresearch007]

excellent format, start with brief questions, end with summaries

[@adriananis2]

Ben was excellent - clear and concise :)

[@jakobw135]

At the amino acid level, plant and animal protein is EXACTLY the same. It's just that with plants, you have to pick and choose and eat MORE of them to get the required amount.

[@lynnritchie231]

Which means you get to eat more.....😊

[@user-ey9bt7fs6n]

Great podcast! I can’t wait for you to have Ben on again diving deeper into nutrition for optimal health.

[@yeyeoyeye6039]

And thanks to Jonathan for asking the simple questions for us.

[@leonieduplessis4467]

Dr B you great with your information

[@april.valente]

I just enjoyed listening to Jonathans beautiful English pronunciation

[@flamewave0]

Prof. Ben Wall is contradicting himself number of times on one hand we are getting too much protein and body cannot process more but on the other we should eat more dense protein food like chicken, so which one is it?

[@marcobritalian]

This was a great episode to bust through a lot of misinformation on protein and exercise. I am still left wondering what to do if you are in a bigger body. If I was to exercise strenuously and therefore require x1.6 g/kg of protein that could mean 163g of protein. If I also need to restrict calories to lose weight then achieving that much protein is a real challenge. It would be great to have a few episodes of practical application of the podcasts eg show us a real world meal plan that would meet these requirements and fit the other Zoe principles.

[@Joseph1NJ]

The consensus seems to be if you're trying to lose weight, eat 1.6g / Kilo of your ideal or target weight in protein.

[@brucejensen3081]

You shouldn't be restricting calories by a huge amount when shredding. Maybe you need a few egg whites or whey, when in the cut stage. If you eat lots of hard to digest, low energy food, your maintenance calories will increase

[@d26s10]

The protein gram to kilogram of body weight ratio should be calculated on LEAN body mass, not total mass including your fat, bones, organs etc. A good rule to by is to try and get 30g of protein in at every meal. That’s pretty doable with lean meats, lean dairy and fibre (whole grains.) Try and get another 20-25g of protein in one to two additional times with snacks, that’ll easily spread your intake in across the hours of the day and spike muscle protein synthethis several times.

[@colinwiseman]

@@Joseph1NJ the other consensus seems to be between 0.8-1.2g / kg... Having lots of studies is great, having too many is now confusing :D

[@Joseph1NJ]

@@colinwiseman Can there be too many studies? In that case, look to meta analysis'. Problem is, meta analysis' can be too democratic, or so I was told. I think you have to take in consideration the person's goal. Do they want to lose fat or build muscle, just stay healthy and prevent sarcopenia, etc? Do we need more as we age simply because our ability to synthesize protein diminishes? We know slightly more protein than recommended will not hurt you in any way, as long as it fits on the context of a "healthy" diet. Will too little protein hurt? If so, what is too little? Too little may be not enough to preserve muscle, especially as we age. That 1.6gg/kilo I quoted was the optimal dose for those engaging in resistance exercise. Can you eat less and be healthy? Of course. What that number will be from person to person varies, especially depending who you listen to.

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

They talk a lot about exercise but mis it all up, but in reality the KIND of exercise is extremely important, yet they speak of resistance exercise as a long walk!! That is not even ENDURANCE exercise!! The protein needs for those two kinds are not the same, but further if you do lift weights, it is not the same if you do low resistance high repletion levels, compared to lower (5-8 reps) levels and what it does or adaptations to the body that it causes. It is encouraging to know the protein needs don't change much, but the other factors do change a lot, recovery foot timing etc... if you go lift FOR STRENGTH it seems like a whole other world what happens, the recovery timing and foods and other needs change so much that even though it is the same tools for it (the weights) the results or what you do with them is EXTREMELY different. And empirically anyone can see it, if you see some people lifting light weight or few sets etc, compared to teh bodies of those lifting MUCHHHHH heavier weights with NECESSARILY fewer reps with PROPER technique... I wish these videos would make that a lot clearer for nutritional purposes and also for timing purposes. Simply put, lifting FOR STRENGTH is nothing like lifting for stress relief or 'health" or whatever other key words nutritionist or trainers or experts use, I just don't see many of these experts built like they have ever done the VOLUNTARY heavyyyy lifting required for muscle bound people. And that is like many things, until you do it you don't know how different it is, you see a barbell FOR EXAMPLE loaded with 300+ pounds and the brain just doesn't WANT TO do it, so you have to know you can from prior experience, but the EXTREME effort required EVEN THEN is and has to be voluntary. The nutritional needs for that must be different...??? THATTTT is what I wish they explored a lot more.

[@shellinsight1756]

Very insightful/informative and rationally presented podcast. Thank You both very much for your efforts... I appreciate you both 🏞

[@jx__xj6308]

If we look at the available scientific data it's easy to see that a protein deficiency only really occurs in a calorie deficient diet. Therefore as long as you eat enough food, you'll get enough protein. Plants contain complete proteins in varying amounts and are more than adequate to fulfill our needs. I prefer to get all my protein from plants because unlike animal protein it doesn't come bundled with a shit ton of saturated fat and pathogenic bacteria.

[@Eric3Frog]

I wish people would stop misusing the term “plant based”. Most people are using it as pseudonym for vegan. But, it literally means based on plants 🌱, which implies including animal derived foods.

[@lynnritchie231]

Plant based referrs to diet. Vegan referrs to a total lifestyle- food, clothing, household cleaning, toiletries etc.

[@aquamarine99911]

Excellent talk, but what didn't come up in the summary at the end was Ben's view that the typical body can only absorb 20 g of protein per meal. That's at odds with what protein expert Don Layman says, which is that we need at least 25-30 g of protein per meal to ensure we get enough MPS (muscle protein synthesis)-triggering leucine And if 20 g per meal really was the top end of what we need to build muscle, then does that suggest that the weight-lifting people consuming 1.2 to 1.6 g/kg of body weight per day must be eating it over five or six meals per day? If so, how many hours apart should the meals be to get maximum MPS benefit?

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

I didn't get that very clear, Is he saying the body CANNOT use more than 25 grams of protein AT A TIME for muscle rebuilding, or it cannot use 25 grams at a time period?? meaning per meal?? And a maximum of 40 grams a day is enough?? It doesn't match the 0.7 to 1.6 grams a day they speak of later in the video...

[@ceresida]

Funghi are not plants, why it is strange to use funghi protein as an argument in the animal vs. plant protein debate

[@shaynealbert]

I'd love to see someone on this podcast who advocates that we get enough protein, and that plant protein is fine, who actually looks like they have a muscular body.

[@soulaward2136]

My son is a weight lifter and is vegan - he's big!

[@shaynealbert]

@@soulaward2136 Do you have his handle (his instagram @) . I want to see this natural vegan weight lifter

[@EvelynBaron]

Ever seen Rich Roll?

[@lynnritchie231]

​@@EvelynBaronHe's gorgeous and super fit. ❤

[@lynnritchie231]

Or Nimai Delgado....

[@seniorsenckes446]

Perfect questions!

[@georgemallen9200]

This is a great interview, and it surely provides information to better our help, many that i will be using. However, i would like to know how i can download written script of the interview which will allow me to read it as often as deem appropriate.

[@carlwatts3936]

Great podcast, well done!

[@BlueVelvetBear]

Great guest!

[@runninblue9415]

Such an articulate guest, as well as knowledgeable. V enjoyable

[@scoobtoober2975]

A full description of mycoprotein production has been published by Finnigan (2011). The production strain for mycoprotein is first grown using an aerobic fermentation system and carbohydrate and nutrient substrates required for growth (Finnigan, 2011). Next, the mycelium of the fungus is heat-treated to reduce ribonucleic acid content to approved levels. Once the ribonucleic acid levels are lowered, the suspended hyphae are recovered by centrifugation and a supernatant is yielded which is mycoprotein (Gilani and Lee, 2003). During the final phases of production, the processes of steaming, chilling and freezing of mycoprotein result in a meat-like structure, similar to chicken when observed under a microscope. These combined processes along with the final addition of added egg albumen, functional ingredients, flavors, herbs and spices, leads to an end product that mimics the texture of meat (Wiebe, 2002). More recently, plant-based alternatives to egg protein have been discovered that allow vegan products to be produced.

[@davidedwards3361]

Followed by the lecture, 'Dying Healthy".

[@Alice-es2rs]

I wished you had asked your guest regarding Bio Availability between Plant Source Protein verses Animal Source Protein.

[@simon22273Z]

Listen again it's detailed towards the end

[@Alice-es2rs]

@@simon22273Z I will listen again.. thanks

[@margareturquhart5641]

‘Declining appetite as you get older’, I’m 71 years old, no sign of my appetite declining, if only. 😂

[@derekarnold3665]

He makes sweeping generalisations. Not everyone is frail when they get older, secondly you don't need too much protein (animal protein) in your diet when you are older which can cause heart, liver and kidney issues. Eggs are good source of protein and other nutrients. Of course drinking less alcohol. I have no idea what a protein shake what is.

[@VFNVFNVFN]

Brilliant. Thoroughly enjoyed the chat. Now where can we get the fungi please? 😀

[@Noegzit]

They forgot some important points: 1. The dose of leucine necessary to achieve the maximal stimulation of muscle protein synthesis in older persons has been estimated to be ∼3-4 g/meal, which would correspond to ∼25-30 g protein/meal. So 20g of protein are probably not enough in particular when proteins are plant proteins as for example wheat protein contains only 1.2g to 1.8g of leucine per 20g. 2. Plant proteins are also less bio-available, so eating 20g of wheat protein is certainly not equivalent to eating 20g of animal proteins but a bit more like eating 10g of meat according to their respective DIAAS score. Corn, rice and wheat have low scores. Soy is better. Best sources are meat, eggs and dairy. I guess that the study quoted here and saying that there were no differences in muscle mass gains between plant protein and animal protein groups just used large amounts of pea or soy protein. I don't know exactly of which study he was talking about but I found one with only 57 young participants. In an other hand I also found a meta-analysis telling us that a diet with an animal protein intake was better. "Animal protein presented greater gains for lean mass and percent lean mass compared to plant protein, while findings for strength outcomes were inconsistent." We should probably better trust a meta-analysis with many participants of all ages rather than a small study on young people.

[@yeyeoyeye6039]

Great episode thanks Prof Ben. I’ve been puzzling over protein since Zoe recommended I eat a lot more of it. I’m in my 70s and aiming to lose weight and I’m mainly vegetarian so it can be tricky to up the protein without increasing fats too much. Nutritional yeast is my friend.

[@aliuqaily5238]

Simple and educative.

[@lpodverde]

Do episodes on nutritional deficiencies, antinutrients .

[@delaneyondreams]

What are the dangers of dairy proteins? Was the China Study wrong? Did Dr. Michael Greger, Dr. Neil Greger, and many others never get the memo that dairy proteins and animal proteins are not harmful?? Please directly address those researchers who have for decades said otherwise ; that plant proteins for many reasons are helathier and safer that animal proteins (IGF-1, Tor activators, even 100% Whole Foods Plant Based eaters get 2 X the recommended protein.

[@FrogmortonHotchkiss]

The latest science on muscle hypertrophy contradicts what Ben says here about 'muscle damage' being the main driver of growth. This may or may not have consequences for what you take away from this presentation in terms of actions for health, but... it appears that 'mechano-sensors' on the muscle register the degree & duration of *tension* in the muscle fibres and signal for growth accordingly. So you only need to flex long & hard enough through some reasonable range-of-motion. The relationship between 'damage' and growth appears to be weak. This is why you can get terrible, lingering muscle-soreness after performing an *unfamiliar* exercise protocol, yet you can continue to experience muscle growth after you've stopped getting sore in response to that exercise. For example, maybe I have been doing squats for six months, then I decide to give lunges a go. Even though I have strengthened my legs from squatting and have long since stopped getting very sore from squatting even when I do a lot of it, this new exercise, involving the same muscles, causes a lot of damage and pain. I am very sore for two or three days afterwards. But after a few weeks of lunges, the soreness will get less and less and possibly disappear altogether. I will still build muscle & strength from lunges (cos: muscle tension!), but my body will adapt to lunges such that it doesn't sustain much damage from them. Damage may even *hinder* muscle hypertrophy by reducing performance and adherence. So the takeaway might be: find a workout you like and stick with it for a while if you can--instead of switching it up every couple of weeks. You should seek to progress in some way (heavier weights, more repetitions, etc.) but you don't have to chase damage/soreness to progress.

[@davidpescod7573]

I am in my early 80s. Every day I walk between 5 and 10+ km a day. However, it is not possible for me to walk very quickly, ie getting out of breath. For those of us who do (what I suppose would be termed light exercise) walk in this way benefit in the ways Ben suggests?

[@slydog7131]

Go to the gym and start lifting weights. Be consistent, use progressive overload, track your progress, do whole-body workouts and it will make a huge difference in how you move and feel. And keep walking.

[@simontemplar404]

The walking will keep you mobile. I would get professional help before following any advice from us chattering internet people.

[@d26s10]

You can easily strength train at home, there’s plenty of workouts for seniors on KZbin. You don’t even need equipment. You can place some large water bottles or tinned food into a rucksack or any kind of bag and it’s going to allow you to perform simple exercises such as squats, calf raises, arm raises with an added load on your frame. Wishing you well!

[@EvelynBaron]

@@simontemplar404 well said!

[@sarangadilmini8635]

Like the summary and learnt something new Exercise is vital for muscle control as we get older.

[@PatrickHutton]

Hi I'm no expert. This is what I've heard in weight training circles on protein from plant vs animal sources. Whilst all essential amino acids are present when different plant sources are used it's argued that there's a lower bio availability of protein compared to animal sources.

[@kencarey3477]

Johnathan you usually do such a great job. This time you talk a little too much 😢

[@andreawisner7358]

31:24 So is "body mass" your current, possibly very overweight, body mass or lean body mass i.e. the weight you would be if you were in ideal condition? EDIT: Looked it up and it's lean body mass. So for any woman with an ideal lean body mass of 120 lbs = 54 kg => 43 grams of protein.

[@robclarke5438]

stop interrupting

[@gregzaks6649]

What I think is crucial for people to realise is that 100g of chicken does not equal 100g of protein. Chicken has, I guess, about 30 percent, so you would get 30 grams of protein. Now, who eats more than 100 grams of meat in one meal? I used to eat around 50g, and because I exercise a lot and am very active, I ended up with chronic muscle pain and inflammation because I was protein deficient for years. I just thought I was doing the right thing eating little and not too much meat 😢😢😢

[@WinterGK]

One of the only proven ways to extend life expectancy is through calorie restriction. We have extended the life of mice and monkeys using calorie restriction. Human life is too long for a full study, but in theory it should work the same. The science of building muscle and life expectancy science is not always compatible. If you look at the Blue Zones and the longest living people, there are no body builder cultures in those that live the longest. If you want to build muscle then you need to eat enough protein and get enough calories. This has nothing to do with plant or animal protein. You can get protein from multitudes of food.

[@Zoe.TheBody360]

Great video. Re plant v animal protein for muscle building you need all the essential amino acids but especially Leucine and it’s more challenging to get this from natural sources of plant proteins than animal proteins especially too in the setting of caloric restriction

[@spiral-m]

it is not rocket science to find and cook the following: "Foods such as beans and legumes are rich sources of lysine however, and leucine can be obtained from soy beans and lentils. Other BCAAs can be found in seeds, tree nuts and chickpeas, meaning that these amino acids can be obtained by consuming a variety of protein-rich, plant-based foods [14, 46]". What do you mean by this - "especially too in the setting of caloric restriction"?

[@Cenot4ph]

Animal proteins are much better absorbed, this channel prefers to convey the religion of plant based diets instead of facts

[@lynnritchie231]

​@@Cenot4phIf it offends you so much, don't watch it. 😊

[@Cenot4ph]

@@lynnritchie231 projection friend. I never claimed any of the sort. I'm merely stating a fact

[@betht2679]

Not so many host anecdotes and interruptions would be helpful. Let the guest speak and don't compare to a previous guest. Just saying.

[@terencemoore6585]

The point about exercise and brain improvement is crucial in children, so the lack of sports at school (UK) is highly detrimental to development.

[@arbishahnazarian1235]

Trying to understand the math here for a person that engages in resistance training. He says we can use max 20 grams per feeding and 1.6g/kg is the high end for protein limits per day. For an 80kg male, that is 128grams of protein per day...if we are to believe that 20g is max the body can use per meal, that would suggest we should have at least 6 meals a day...seems like the body can use much more than grams per meal, unless we spend all day eating!!

[@northernblues77]

20 gr per meal no extra effect. listen to what Don Lyman has to say about this, can these experts please have a chat, its just so annoying and confusing that all these health experts differ so much on such an important issue. I actually don't believe 20 gr, where do you get a steak or fish that less than 100 gr. 40-50 sounds more reasonable to me

[@ellie698]

Big thumbs up for the guest and fair play to him for putting up with the waffling and stupid questions from the interviewer

[@deebee8290]

Brilliant - what a clear communicator - Ben was great

[@delaneyondreams]

We do not find it "Harder" to be sure you get enough qualify protein. It is automatic unless you are starving or losing weight, and the quality of the plant protein is much better. If this is in fact incorrect please debate these issues. Your dairy videos make me wonder who is funding ZOE, and how widely are your scientists informed on WFPB research.

[@CandyLemon36]

This is prime content. A book I read on the topic was a cornerstone for my understanding. "Adapting with Aging" by James Crescent

[@frasersteen]

Prof Ben eloquently explains why Christopher Gardener was misleading regarding protein intake quantity and exercise in your podcast a few months ago. There's some clear advice here for those trying to gain muscle mass: - Eat 1.2-1.6g per kg of bodyweight and do so in chunks of 20g or so at a time. - So for an 80kg male that would be ~120g of daily protein across 6 meals. - If we're awake for ~16 hours that's approx 20g of protein every 3 hours. The guy at the gym was right. It's almost as if this kind of knowledge has been circulating in the sports science world for years and the science behind it is solid.

[@andreawisner7358]

28:00 So is this 20 g of protein per meal a good guideline for a maximum -- and also a minimum?