Generic Supporting does not win games | Whose Fault Is It Anyways? #14

[@hombrepollo8234]

The "or" joke was definitely the cherry on top in the last video

[@Chickenatron]

It's a great meme

[@nutellabrah6718]

I coulda used another round of “or” moments. They really hit home.

[@begliamanov7276]

Hi, couldn't give a decent feedback earlier! Sorry! First of all, I wanna thank you, Zack, for the time you've spent on analizing my game replay and even making video out of it! Thank you! Second: as many people mentioned under this video, it contains a massive amount of useful information. And you know what, you've also showed me and many others, I am sure, how and why we should do the same with our games on our own. I will definitely watch this a couple times more to make sure that I will not repeat at least a half of the mistakes done in this game, ooOORr maybe not :) This video shows, that the biggest difference between high and low rank players lays on the clear and effiecient decision making each minute in each unique game. I am sure, it will bump me up even further in rank "or"... P.S. You making a great content and the way how you mentoring us, is insanely pleasant! Keep it up! You might also pin my comment, so folks could see your greateful subscribers! I am glad to be a Part of your community!

[@evankelly1203]

I wish I watched a channel like this back when I started playing dota. Honestly amazing content and hes giving good advice in such a positive way. I love how positive this community can be when we don't let the vocal minority take it over.

[@begliamanov7276]

@@evankelly1203 I've also enjoyed it from very first video!

[@ozenefe]

"Whose Fault Is It Anyways?" is the best Dota2 content on KZbin. Please keep it up!

[@BryceLeo]

This is a crazy useful video to watch for supports. Great insight into map movement, correct early-mid game actions, reading the map. Will def be watching this again.

[@begliamanov7276]

Same here!

[@TerrennonPriv]

i want the whole series of 'OR' don't let it die

[@briannewman9210]

I could use a thousand more, "OR" moments. They're great.

[@mnesmtg5613]

Okay I lost it at the third “OR” last time, but the arm waving close up is clearly the superior bit. Amazing as always, Zach!

[@Indestructibear]

11:43 the addition of Zack the octopus is the only thing that makes up for the loss of "ORRRR"

[@senditcody3130]

I like it when you go "Or we can" LOL. Keep flamming good stuff. Makes you think.

[@DoubleZDogg]

The ranks at the end were shocking. If you told me this was Guardian 2, I would not have thought twice.

[@filips9738]

It's always easy to notice and point out mistakes when you're watching a replay. In game, it's much harder.

[@garysalazar5279]

i cant believe this is legend rank

[@dubmanting]

my jaw dropped at the end honestly thought it was guardian too

[@rowia.builds]

​@@garysalazar5279does this mean that no matter how high I rank up, my cores will continually skill the wrong abilities?

[@Ub3rSk1llz]

Quixotix should watch some of his own replays sometime. I bet he'd think he's guardian.

[@radiosurgery1802]

Man I am so glad I finally found this channel. Talking through concepts as a support is insanely helpful because often times I feel kinda like that Lich early game where I just....don't feel like I can do anything and hyper focus on trying to catch my carry up but being in the same line that I've been dominated in for 10 minutes is a really dumb thing to do in hindsight. Also something I picked up here is I know about making space for your carry, but the idea that going to where your carry is farming in lane in an attempt to catch them up WITHOUT the ability to actually get picks or affect the lane is drawing more enemy heroes, or making "negative space", isn't something I had thought about. Awesome video.

[@Mirage0153]

This is seriously THE funniest, yet most educational dota content on KZbin right now

[@begliamanov7276]

The funnuiest and best thing about Zack, is that he does it even when it impacts hes own MM in not let say not the best way! Truelly hero!

[@senditcody3130]

You have become my favorite dotatuber. Keep them coming lol. I like the jokes.

[@begliamanov7276]

Same here

[@graDinolol]

Mindblown by the advice in this vid. It never occurred to me that leaving your carry (to gank other lanes) due to a bad lane is a viable strategy, it felt like making a bad situation worse (you also get flamed). He can technically jungle but 0:3 lvl 5 carry is easy pray for roaming support. Also leaving lane to stack seems risky, since you can mess up the stack + your carry might never want to kill the stack, and the fed enemy can easily steal it. This is all coming from low ELO perspective. I thank you for bringing such strategies to light, I will try to incorporate them in my games.

[@begliamanov7276]

Yeah, Baby! Thats me!

[@nutellabrah6718]

Did you spam Lich to go to legend?

[@alphablitz1024]

Stay frosty!

[@j.zoe7411]

Oof. Good on your for admitting that. I wouldn't have 😅

[@cookiepirate4471]

grats on ur rank up!

[@begliamanov7276]

​@@alphablitz1024 Always! :)

[@AndresDavidCalvache]

I get what he's saying about being proactive. It's a bigger difference that creates those snowballing effects which I've fallen prey to all too often.

[@JasonRennie]

"Do you enjoy using chain frost on small camps?" Love the commentary! :)

[@Jeff-yj1jn]

I've watched many of your videos at this point.... and this is the best one so far. Practice examples of mistakes I've made (and my team has made) so many times. Thank you. Now, if only I could pause a game at the beginning of a match and ask my team to watch this first. For future videos - it would be helpful if you could more completely cover items and how to react to different hero types... I don't know how to adjust my support build. A video on that would be excellent. For example - up against high physical damage heros? Build medallion/solar. Up against a late game PL? What can a support buy? A bible? Thanks for the great sense of humour and video content. Better than Netlfix.

[@Randomperson-sz2gq]

me: Guys, our slark dived into tier 4 and died, we shouldnt fight my team: fights and blames me for going back

[@Hi_Ho_Silver]

I like the slightly more edgy and aggro ZQuix

[@filips9738]

I don't 😥 I like it cold and technical. (No joke.)

[@65532one]

I like this channel a lot. I feel like it's hard to find dota 2 content creators that I like. I would really like to see some of your own gameplay though, preferably in a full game format. edit: nvm just found your vods channel.

[@Anonymouschannel8181]

I don't think I've ever been in a game where my team understand the concept of resetting, drives me crazy

[@randymarsh5176]

4:15 i love that joke i wanna see it more 🤣

[@CGGGold]

Best series related to Dota 2. More episodes please

[@Wasabiofip]

Oh I laughed out loud when you said Lich goes up to atos the Invoker, because, well, why DOES he have an atos??? Great videos, entertaining and really helpful for thinking about the game.

[@begliamanov7276]

I dont know, but the idea here was to kite/catch ursa, mostly. But now I see, that there could be a better choice of items and positinioning and many others stuff...

[@roved998]

I was already doing a handful of these things when I was in crusader pre-patch. Glad they've claibrated me upward. There is/was a high variance in average support performance and macro understanding in 2-3k

[@zodiarkesper6073]

I miss or jokes , please do it more . it is so funny

[@abhishekanand3620]

Yo! As a support in guardian rank, this proactive thinking is very useful. Keep it up. Best support content. :)

[@jongthiamfu840]

Match ID: 7171357342 I was the cm on the dire side and it's a game I won after a comeback. I do get some early kills for jugg and gave him quite a good start, but the lead is not sizeable enough going to the mid to late game. At one point my team were able to push down both tier 4 towers but dont take down the ancient and things start to go wrong. The opponent team were much late-game lineup and my team always have vision disadvantage during teamfights. Although my team won the game after the enemy spectre kind of throw I guess, I would like to know whether there is anything I can done more in the game? Perhaps the item build I went for should be more greedy or more aura?

[@Ashuram528]

just what i needed, thank you Zack!

[@nathansmith7165]

Love this series keep it up!

[@ZenotoXOfficial]

"You're about to be in a SECOND video for what you're about to do..." Im dying bro.

[@matheusdecarvalho4240]

Every archon/legend player should watch this video, and your words should hit'em like punches!

[@giuseppebruno9277]

What happend around the 19:00 minute mark is what i call the martyr syndrome, once you are late to a team fight or to save a hero , the brain almost tell them , well now you have to die to save your honor and dont fell like is your fault

[@dollybasheer6792]

Him getting killed by Witch Doctor at 4:44 is so me. Lol

[@zanido9073]

0:55 not a great PL game actually, LC has good illusion clear early game, CM has massive aoe damage and so does invoker. Yes PL is good against ursa but bad against most of their other heroes 2:55 shoving wave in here if your carry is not on board is EXTREMELY likely to make them tilt. He will probably want to TP back to lane, farm the nearby creep wave since it's close to tower, and then hit jungle. If anything, lich should pull the small camp and then rotate so that PL can get a wave under tower when he respawns. 6:30 There's nothing wrong with going bot there, lich is almost 6 and LC is half health. Easy kill. He simply needed to sit in trees for a couple creeps to get 6, then pop out with ult and gaze and she's dead. It was an execution error. 7:30 very likely they would had just 2v1 killed PL anyways, this argument is invalid 7:55 PL's not any faster at jungling than ursa until much later. Fury swipes kills camps very fast. 19:00 God i see this kind of stupid shit all the time in Divine. "Yea let's take a 4v5 against the enemy who has aegis, while we're down 15k! What could go wrong?"

[@Doomroar]

9:58 Something to notice even thought things are going quite bad on bottom, for some reason the DP is already tilted despite having quite a balanced game on top lane, so things are already failing there, so the rotation to top could have helped with that part too

[@begliamanov7276]

Totally agreed!

[@BorderlandsBoy0]

No wonder I’m at the rank I’m at with players like Alch completely throwing the game thinking he is unkillable Hot shit

[@Rad21zzz]

Great educational

[@longbranchgooberdapple2238]

What's up with this trend on pos5 specifically? It's like they glued to safe lane. I have a guy like this every 5-10 games.

[@begliamanov7276]

Well I was keep telling to my self, I have to try to protect this guy from dying. But we all saw how these attemps are ended. But hey, now when it was literally pointed on it, we have now -1 who will at least try not to be "glued" on the safe lane.

[@longbranchgooberdapple2238]

@@begliamanov7276 I thought it was because patch when they removed small camp from triangle and some guide from someone. Cause I cannot recall that many glued 5 before that :) Or maybe it's just me playing more offlane, it's very noticeable when 5 doesn't come.

[@begliamanov7276]

It was actually my play style forever... but

[@longbranchgooberdapple2238]

@@begliamanov7276 well, that means you are really good at other things :)

[@GenjaOrigins]

At 6:30 he can w the tower so it wont break and then take xp and then return again to top lane i would do that why is it bad?

[@ashen7314]

Wait, this is a Legend + Ancient 1 game?

[@carloruiz9861]

Same

[@Jebu911]

I love the orrr jokes needs more of them

[@jms7634]

I came back playing dota after 8years and you channel helps me a lot regarding meta and what to do, thank you so much. Also are you the one who cast with tobiwan that game with navi with the fountain hook? I forgot the name of the caster but you sound thesame

[@badrotaibi4229]

do the "OR" joke its the best

[@emmanuelwilliamquinton9152]

no comment on the blood grenade throw ?

[@begliamanov7276]

Yeah... that was a funny moment. I've changed my hot keys a while ago and still struggling to get use to it and missclicking often, sadly. Just like Zack already mentioned.

[@ms98703]

So I have a question on this kind of situation: as a support player I tend to do what Lich did this game, my reasoning being "if I leave my carry alone, he's going to have a bad time and feed and not get farm at all", and I'm afraid I'll get flamed by him for not helping. On the other hand, if I'm the carry in a lane that's going badly and my support left me to support other lanes as you suggested I would only be able to play very defensively and get basically 0 CS.

[@EthVortexShield]

At my mmr if you try to be a proactive support while nothing immediate is going on in your own lane, teammates in the lane you want to go to will start spam pinging you as fast as humanly possible while hurtling world record amounts of derogatory remarks and slurs and even the pos 3 or pos 1 outright rage abandoning

[@stephenryan6242]

Great content, more please!

[@dipankarsaha4388]

Why do u have only 29K subscribers. Such amazing content

[@ichangiz]

Great video. Z

[@firefox1484]

How do you justify moving to another lane as a support when your lane is losing? I feel like I get flamed often when I try to rotate especially if the rotate doesnt result in a kill

[@ank.10]

Such a good video.

[@incoma6628]

This is a legend bracket? Alch midas first item and pl maxing q... XD After calibration, I noticed that many players got boosted by the system to a bracket that they do not belong. My friend who was Herald 3 got boosted to Guardian 3 for no reason... he went 50/50 recalibration games. So if the system doesn't count other factors than wins it mins it boosted many players on purpose.

[@begliamanov7276]

It happens to me as well! I still don't get HOW and WHY?

[@NSLukas]

Top tier content.

[@ashleywilson3814]

Love this series

[@yo6ur]

I had this game as Jakiro support 7169868202. Was laning with mk, kinda on a hard lane, but I feel we still played safe and come on top. We dominate the early game and siege them until min 30, with lots of kills and map dominance. We lost one or two fights later and everything started to crumble, IMO my cores stopped farming and that allow the other team to catch up. What could I have done better to enable them to win?

[@Doomroar]

Dude the same thing happens in some of my Jakiro games, except that the cores stop pushing and go to farm after teamfights instead of helping take towers or Roshan

[@vitorvieira5552]

They see a full HP tower and think: "WELL, I NEED TO BE IN THIS LANE". They die once, they die twice, they feed as long as the tower stands.... Why the hell is it so hard to get out of there and make pressure in other areas of the map (or go farm elsewhere)? Both pos 5 and pos 1 in my bracket (2k) fail miserablly in that respect.

[@남자-b4b]

"ooOORRrrr"

[@OrIoN1989]

I think its useful to think, "Who is kill buddy?" PL is never going to be a kill buddy.

[@anwarjalanjalan]

sarcastic level to the roof

[@jacoboreyes5340]

this video was kinda funny.

[@silverstar-is-here]

Amazing content

[@lukupaolo85]

OR moments are funny to watch haha

[@KnicksNYanks84]

Next can we do a "who wore it better" with hero outfits and arcanas

[@gerson7366]

I was scratching my head at every decision they made in this game. 🤣

[@begliamanov7276]

Believe me, we did it as well!

[@KojiCT]

We need the off lane mid and carry ver of this

[@LeonardoPostacchini]

You can stop using the joke, ooorrrrrr, you can use it because it is a fan favourite.

[@lancelotiger]

We have a discord server guys?

[@kevintan7163]

Match ID 7175291056 I'm the Sven. I had my fair share of fails, but it felt like my hard sup (shaman) literally didn't do anything until about 5 mins where he finally dewards our small camp and pulls. The lane was shit so I jungled very early on with a rushed mom and tried to catch up, but felt like I couldn't anymore. What could I/Should I have done better?

[@alial-kateeb5267]

alc going 3 farming items as if that will increase his networth any faster..........................................Z most ppl are still not used to twin gates i have alot of games where no one bothers using it and am like why did i place a ward there........... buffing items on supports is the same thing alot of ppl want to feel stronger them selves so they can have an impact sometimes u just don't get stronger

[@DDoesT]

Legend 2 huh

[@rogenhamen]

Match: 7177750412 I'm playing Crystal Maiden and the teammate who screwed up was Shadow Shaman. Right off the bat, the enemy team had a pos5 AM and all the players in the game agreed that was a grief and Radiant was going to win the game. We were doing well, handedly winning the game, when SS asked for us to keep pushing when we're resetting/farming a bit. I went along a couple times because I agreed we needed to keep pressure, but felt like I knew when we needed to back off and when to play with the team. After SS failed some solo push attempts, he went to our Safe Lane jungle and afk farmed, leaving us to 4v5. The enemy team came online, and we eventually lost because we were out griefed. My itemization was absolute trash because I thought we were going to easily win and I was working on getting damage on rooted enemies for my progress challenge. That's my biggest mistake but I would love some intense criticism on the rest of my gameplay to see what we could've done to win 4v5.

[@rowia.builds]

TWIN GATE! BOOP!

[@reformierende_person]

Match ID: 7153830826 Hero/Role: Pos5 Disruptor I duo'd with my Guardian (now peaked at Archon 2) friend Pos1 riki. I was usually in Crusader 5- Archon 2 (but peaked at Legend 6 at 2019). To put some background we always duo together and laned together regardless if I am 4/5 and he is 1/3 vice versa. So even with our relative low MMR plays we have a very strong laning synergy. Together with this and my good mood, I think I managed to have a great disruptor lane that ended in a stomp. Even with this I still need a gameplay advice on what I should still improve with my laning and maybe suggest some good habits that I need to do and maybe some gameplay advice after laning (but this one's kind of a stomp which makes it unfair)

[@thenorthmen3148]

I’m sorry but even a top ranked support player wasn’t saving that game. This what happens in this bracket

[@begliamanov7276]

Pal, just thank you!

[@子阳-h7x]

Match ID: 7181135200 Me: pos 4 primal beast I have been losing 6 games in a row, should i blame gaben or god? Mid is so bad he keeps feeding, neveer rotate, then everything goes boom and i lose more mmr

[@HeraldofSEA]

It's helpfull for me 😘😘😘

[@ravell-sama]

-Match ID: 7168313934 -Hero: Clockwerk (Pos 4) -Whose Fault? Luna (and LC but mostly Luna) I've been playing dota for many years but never made it past Legend rank (that was years ago). Now, I'm a crusader 3* soon to be 2* and I've been stuck on that 50% win rate that feels like a 40%. I mostly play pos 4 and 5 and, lately, I watch more dota videos, matches and tutorials than actually play. On this game, I feel I tried my best to roam and enable my mid at least on the first few minutes. I thought my LC could handle the lane but he was the most passive LC I've seen. At some point in the early game, Luna was raging and retreated to the jungle for what felt like 90% of the game. I know I lack a lot of skill and reaction time but I'm not aiming Immortal or even Divine, just Legend would make me happy. I thought my current knowledge of the game was enough but evidently not so. You can as cruel as you want, I'm here to learn.

[@GdFromHell]

bring the OR back plssss

[@QualeQualeson]

Funny thing about low level Dota is if you refuse to do dumb shit, you'll get flamed and reported. It's a lot like RL. When the right thing isn't defined by analysis, it's defined by what everyone else is doing.

[@fathiizzan]

Didnt know legend support player play like this 😂

[@Joel2Million]

I think it'd be helpful to share the MMR of the match at the start (legend 1 vs legend 5 is a big enough difference to clarify, legend alone doesn't cut it imo) not just the end. also wtf, this is legend 5? even in my most depressing matches filled with people I'd call braindead have I not seen an alchemist go a build with THREE farming items lol. maybe I should switch servers, high ping might be worth the easier games 😬 but yeah, as you showed in the video, lich pretty clearly out of their depth, lots of stuff they need to learn to hopefully stick with a decent rank.

[@begliamanov7276]

Come on man, I am pretty sure you had games like this or even worse ones. If not now, but maybe in the past. Right?

[@joedwards9831]

where are these submissions coming from? The itemization and decision making is so far off your tutorials that the people sending them probably don't watch your videos and I've never seen these in my games, even when I was herald. How are you getting people to send these to you?

[@heart-beats-discord]

Match ID: 7170711607 I am Abaddon support. I play with all mute on. The enemy Disruptor messes up Slark, and my team like I thought he would during draft phase, but idk how I can deal with him. Venomancer built Eternal Shroud instead of Pipe of Insight which annoyed me. I mess up my item casting and positioning, and we all feed together during team fights. I guess I primarily blame my Slark and Storm for trying to be too aggressive a lot unnecessarily. I thought about building BKB for myself or Linken's for Slark, but I thought enemy Zeus would pop it too easily so I built Lotus orb.

[@tang414]

if you are support just follow the guys who is always alone cuz it will work out fine.

[@randomcunt-s4x]

Match ID: 7172488264 I was playing support techies, 9 kills at 9 minutes. I think that the whole team messed up more or less, but our offlane Legion Commander and Clinkz 4 sucked a lot so I mostly blame them. Our cores also sucked at farming for some reason and didn't want to push the huge lead we had at the start. I messed up some spells and items, like we all do sometimes but I think that I played well, until the enemies were just too strong and our cores were too weak to carry.

[@Shiftz96]

Hi Zach got one for you. Match ID is 7171102035 I was playing offlane Timber. At one point we had an 85% win probability however highground happened where I died once and it felt like the game slowly slipped from there as the Slark carry on my team was essentially nonexistent (also not to mention the support silencer going core build & not taking his global until level 10) not to sound too bitter but there are some games where I feel like if I don’t play close to perfect I lose. Hoping to get a couple pointers on timbersaw as well as a couple times I definitely didn’t know my limits on the hero. Thanks in advance!

[@XenoMike]

Maybe it’s too much to ask but whenever I watch videos like this, I want to know what to do when the enemy reacts to your “right move”. For example, if you leave bottom lane to help secure kills top as ZQuixiotix suggested, what do you do about your p1 now being alone with no wards in the jungle? And what if the enemy bottom lane starts rotating top in response? In this case, I could see LC getting solo free farm bottom when you leave, then rotating top to stomp. Then your p3 and p4 flame you for dragging the enemy over and turning a winning lane into another loss.

[@nathanwance2833]

me : guilty as charged hahaaha

[@SweetVoice-h3e]

You can use “ooorrr” joke cause people like it, OOORRRR…

[@子阳-h7x]

1) Match ID: 7176266487 2) I'm treant protector 3) My laning stage went well, we got 5 kills in the first minute, but in the mid game thing goes downhill, i dont know why. I bought blink bcos i realize I'm the only reliable initiator here. Someone was buying all sentries and we have no sentries for lane (tho we still won the lane). Pango is blaming sf for build but idk im not a core player (but i think sf build is fine?)

[@alphablitz1024]

So helpful. This Lich could be me if I gained 1k mmr 😢

[@begliamanov7276]

Keep watching this channel and use in practice what it teaches, and you will gain it much faster than expected.

[@user-ci8hh2yk2u]

1) Match ID: 7171891942 2) Who you are playing: position 4 pugna 3) Explain why you think you're right and the team is wrong : Merci said we were all useless, invoker excluded. I thought I was playing with a bunch of brain dead lemmings. We defended against megas, and couldn't push out for some reason. Carries couldn't carry, and medusa and i was blamed for not being able to support. Edit: Roast me, my feelings won't be hurt.

[@WoobertAIO]

Holy shit I need to see you get roasted

[@allanyang21]

Support role is way harder to play than core. You’re poor and your job is to help cores have ez game

[@begliamanov7276]

And Most Important one

[@TrustWarrior]

My friend ! Go stack the camps and let him suffer alone for a few minutes if you see no chance to win the lane it will help him catch a breath of air while he does that u take a death next to the tower and some solo xp while keeping them on the lane away from your carry. As a bonus it makes reactionary dota aka mid/offlane/pos4 a breezer.

[@begliamanov7276]

@@TrustWarrior thank you, pal!

[@alexc1561]

you know PL would probably be flaming lich if he DID DO THE RIGHT THING too...that's why dotas so funny, if you make the right moves a lot of the time youre gonna get flamed at. You just gotta know for yourself trhat your doing the right thing and hopefully not have psycho loud teammates

[@begliamanov7276]

He was laughing at us and has made a not very healthy Atmosphere in this round.

[@spazm9000]

Matchid: 7176239677 I am playing: Techies Which Teammate screwed up: This is crusader rank. I made as many mistakes as anyone else so i dont want to flame, although there was a lot of needless feeding going on. Plenty of blame to go around to everyone including me i think. I feel like i did okay overall, but im sure you will flame my item build really hard.

[@ziraluna5062]

-7181675730 -Jakiro -in my opinion i think i did all i had to enable my team to finish the game early since we're playing against medusa. we could've finished the game early but my cores decided to farm for a bit and tease the enemy until we lost. i really wanna climb up the ranks and play on a higher tier please be brutally honest with what i might have done wrong.

[@johnklaus9111]

Just to be clear. If you quit on the game and start talking about your teammate's items, you lose and should be reported. I'm getting so tired of loser who cannot play their own chosen unit, failing to have game impact, whining about other's builds. If you do not play with team and go to objectives, you are not playing to win and should be reported.